Be nice.
Make a new account
And I laugh every time someone from the left suggest or says that picking Palin means McCain will loose for sure.
Sigh. Parent
Sounds like their plan is backfiring then? Parent
How much discussion have you seen of the latter issues this past few days? Parent
We all know McCain = Bush, and that message won't stop getting pushed by the Obama camp.
But if McCain is going to continue to pander to women and displaced Hillary supporters, he better stay away from one of the MOST important values to women who share Hillary's.
Honestly, I welcome the discussion. Parent
I don't think ANYONE thought Palin would change the conversation as swiftly and decisively as she has.
As for her daughter, it would be interesting to see the statistics for women (and parents, in general) who find themselves grandparents before they're 50 due to an earlier-than-expected pregnancy with one of their children. I would suspect the numbers could be surprising.
In the end, it may be more of a non-issue than a deciding factor (and certainly not the Death Knell the Dems are hoping and praying it is) as many voters -- although they may disagree with McCain-Palin on other issues -- find themselves commiserating with the Palins in light of their own histories. Parent
Maybe the trends outlined in the latest Gallup polling in indie and Dem women in the last month are telling his campaign this is an issue to hit McCain on harder. Parent
Because, like it or not, whether one is having a Downs' baby or is pregnant at 17, having the baby is still a choice that all women can - and do - make.
If this is pushing Obama to the left of where he has been on choice, great - but I'm not all that sure that a pro-choice ad accomplishes what he thinks it will, with the demographic that he's trying to reach. Parent
It seems to be counterintuitive to me. Parent
Based on your posts for the last month I took for granted you were a paid McCain advocate shilling on a lefty blog. Parent
Nobody seriously thinks that a right-wing zealot like Palin will appeal to Hillary supporters other than PUMA trolls.
Look at the polls. Parent
In a close election, wedge issues will kill us. Parent
Of course, the odds are good that women who get abortions do not have families ready to support them no matter what. Lack of support, financial and otherwise, is a major reason women terminate their pregnancies. Parent
Dems should drop the Palin discussion and refocus on McCain and the issues.
I hope that the Republican diversionary tactics don't win the Presidential election once again.
(FOX is busy blaming Obama for attacking Palin. Obama's supporters need to back off. The attacks are hurting our side. I appaud Jerilyn for baning talk about personal matters. I would love to see other sites do that.) Parent
The question just remains whether the damage is already done. I hope not but I just don't know. It is pretty disheartening to see so many people take the bait. Parent
She doesn't leave these girls too many "choices", does she??
No sex education, no contraception, no pregnancy terminations, and no place to live.
I guess it's all good because her family has enough money to support her pregnant teenage daughter... but these are the kind of issues that tick me off about her.
God also forbids, apparently, telling them how they can avoid pregnancy and STDs other than telling them to keep their legs crossed. As we can see, that's not 100% effective.
It makes me sick. Parent
But, in the end, at least facts can be ignored in order to push the spin, right?
-snark- Parent
I want my Party back and I want the Democrats to stop the hate on women (paraphrasing Donna Brazile) . Parent
Honestly, the fundamental philosophical difference between the parties is so stark right now that I can't understand how anyone can seriously say that they're the same. Parent
I tracked this down to a couple of right-wing blogs who do seem to have the goods on this, links to budget items, etc.
Funding for this program increased under Palin. What she cut was 20 percent of the huge increase voted by the legislature. Parent
I have a perfectly good local candidate to donate to here - Mary Jo Kilroy. She can have my money. The DNC is SOL this year.
But of course if you want to continue to gripe about Nancy Pelosi, that's within your right.
Meanwhile, over 4,000 soldiers are dead in Iraq, and McSame wants to stay there.
Great. Parent
My question is HOW are we leaving Iraq? There are good ways and bad ways to do it. Neither candidate has said. It would give me much insight into their foreign policy fitness.
(BTW - beating up Iran for its nuclear program is dumb, dumb, dumb AND hypocritical.) Parent
His timetable? That was ridiculed by Bush/McCain, and supported by the Iraqi leader?
And now they are trying to find a way to put his timetable into place?
Yup. Parent
A simple unilateral pull out is just asking for the worst possible scenario. Bye guys! We really hope that all the major powers in the region don't carve your country up like a Christmas goose because your government is weak and your army is worse!
Talking to those regional powers might be a good idea, no? Before, not after? Parent
Or Clinton's for that matter actually. Parent
Now that I'm visibly a supporter, can I say what I really think? Parent
I didn't watch Joe at the convention. I can't stand his voice. It always sounds like whining to me. And, I was planning to only watch Palin and McCain's speeches. Parent
It would be in America's interest for the GOP to pick up a few more Liebermans and Snowes, and lose a few Santorums and Palins.
Meanwhile, his "appeal" to Democrats last night was as empty of substance and as pathetic as it gets. A terrible, terrible speaker, as bad as Bush. Parent
Good job Obama blogs!
But now everyone will be watching tonight with lowered expectations, and will be blown away. It's so predictable, and it could have been avoided.
Obama's "best friends" are responsible, of course. Parent
Like the funding cut for young, unwed mothers. Parent
Obama fixed his "inexperience" problem by naming Biden as VP.
If Palin were to become president, she also gets to have a VP and can fix her "inexperience" problem the same way Obama did.
Why don't people see this? If I were telling Palin what to say during the 1st debate, I would have her make a pledge to select Biden as VP should McCain die while in office. There, experience problem solved. Parent
People will see Palin give her speech, all about her and her family (her best subject and the one she's most comfortable), but then they'll see McCain give his and we'll see how that plays out, my guess is not well. I figure that McCain will not get the bounce that Obama gets, because fewer people will be watching, and really, there is less interest. I bet Obama will come out next week with a slight lead. Parent
The McCain camp failed to define her, and let the media do it on their own. Now they have a preconception about her, and she has to dig her way out of a hole.
One speech read off a teleprompter is not going to do that.
She needs to sit down and get asked tough questions like Campbell Brown did with Tucker Bounds. And of course do this without the McCain camp screaming "unfair".
This is the Vice Presidency we are talking about after all. Parent
We need to quit with the Palin attacks and pound the Republican platform and performance. Parent
Also, I have no sense that Palin is a media darling by any measure. The media seems to like its current crop of narratives very much.
I think they will cut her slack for the speech, but to say all will be forgiven? I'll bet no. Parent
Here my question: how much do you want to bet that Sarah "Don't Talk About My Kids" Palin will not only wheel out her daughter's situation, but her own with Trig, to show how truly pro-life she is. Because I'm pretty sure she will. Parent
And it would be blamed on the hounding of this young woman by liberal blogs. Like this one. Parent
From what I see, Obama is trying to move the discussion back to his agenda. He's not getting the help he needs from a lot of those who claim to be for his campaign. Parent
Do we really want to make this election more about family values than issues like the economy and the environment and the military adventurism that seems to be acceptable policy?
Maybe the so-called progressive blogs could post a banner on the home page that says: Palin is a scum of the earth mother who pimps out her daughter. That might allow for more intelligent discussion of issues that should matter to the electorate.
The media are.
The blogs are linking to stories by Washington Post, WSJ, AP, etc. Parent
Blaming it on "liberal bloggers" is right wing spin.
Didn't you try to claim yesterday that the AP was pro-Obama yesterday and were given many examples that show that AP is actually pro-McCain? Parent
See, this would be an interesting topic to cover: to what extent are old media and new media entwined when it comes to political revelations--and what questions does the anonymity of new media raise about campaigns' working with blogs when it comes to stuff like releasing birth certificates. Parent
That was genius. Using the media to legitimize a rumor or gossip. Brilliant, but evil.
Same thing now. Just because some paper of record prints something doesn't mean that it isn't gossip. The media are gullible fools sometimes. There's ample proof. Parent
"Who do we (big business) want to win? How do we make that happen? We create a backlash against Obama supporters for beating up on a woman."
Parent
I just have no idea why the loudmouths who will just not. shut. up. don't see that.
I'm angry. I don't like the GOP. But I'm smart enough to see that shooting at everything that moves is not smart. I would credit my gender, but it's not just the men shooting off their mouths. Parent
But this Gallup Poll out today is certainly good news for Obama.
I do think it's still early to judge support coming from the Palin nomination.
snip:
"An update on gender differences in white voters' presidential vote shows that Barack Obama's gains vis-à-vis John McCain in the days since the Democratic National Convention have come among independents and Democrats of both genders, but that McCain has actually gained slightly among Republican women. The preferences of Republican men have not changed.
"The net effect of these patterns: Obama has registered significant overall gains among white men, but there has been no net change in his support among white women."
But that last statement is due to McCain's gain among Republican women--up 5% from 8/1 to 9/1.
Because the number I am really excited about is that Obama is also up among women--Dems up 8% (74-82!) and Indies: 41% to 46%.
I think you really have to follow the link and look at the comparison charts to get a good feel for this.
The McCain and Palin campaign are at the airport. The greeting: I am watching McCain repeatedly hug Bristol, shake the hand and hold the hand of Levi and kiss baby Trig that is being held by another sister. McCain's older children are there also.
Now they are all lined up and getting photographed. More of McCain hugging Palin. Parent
And this is public radio!
Some issues were covered, such as did Palin raise taxes (yes, she did: 1/2 cent sales tax increse to pay for purportedly popular sports arena--think she also cut taxes, but not sure) and did she work to get Washington money (yes, she did, for a medical center and some other things), so was she hypocritical? Exactly when and why did she decide against the "Bridge to Nowhere). Not pluralized, however.
And does she have too many children to be VP.... Would a male in her place be taked about differently? (D'oh.)
Oh, and she was given a ticket for drift net fishing without a permit sometime way back.Some other trivial matter I now can't recall.
I found myself wondering when the MCM will decide it needs to "vet" Obama--like what did he do during those years he never mentions. The work he did in Chicago other than community organizing. I kinda think that since they've made their Village choice, they won't try to find out much.
Until after he's in office....
Of course, Sully thinks Palin should produce her OBGYN records for the edification (and titillation?) of the voting public. Was Track conceived prior to marriage? (We know Obama Jr. was--we just don't know when exactly his mother married Obama Sr; nor can I find when she married Soetero--not crucial, but surely knowable?). Just what happened between TX and AK prior to birth of her last child? And, of course, did she really give birth to that child....
Eeeeeekkkkk!
As long as Obama can connect McCain to Bush, he has a chance. But last night at the Convention, it was obvious that Bush is being marginalized and pushed to the background. They didn't even want him there.
If the new message of "reform" (there is a religious implication there too) holds to the Republicans, Obama has a problem. Right now, there hasn't been a big jump for Obama, just a couple percent of people moving to him, but after this Convention, I believe you are going to see a bounce from McCain and a fall from Obama, bringing back to an even race.
And Palin is getting ready to take control of this message. I don't think she was a mistake because the Republicans have yet to pull out the big guns against Obama.
Remember, there's always the October surprise.
And, according to today's Gallup Numbers he's doing that. Parent
While I think he would fit in PERFECTLY with the Republican convention, I doubt they want the media anywhere close to that type of gaffe machine. Parent
At this point, the best strategy for beating McCain is keeping the focus on McCain and how he is just like Bush.
I very much respect your work here andgarden, but I feel it is intellectually dishonest to put the Palin fiasco squarely on those who went tabloid on her. "Hillary supporters" will have their share of culpability, when the "Palin was great!" narrative unleashes.
The Obama blogs claim to be. Parent
So, the Obama people accidentally shot themselves in the foot and the "Hillary supporters" actively boosted Palin. A real team effort, about the first one we've seen from these contingents, yet.
A pox on identity politics. Parent
But dumb as opposed to what? As opposed to intentionally betraying the issues you care about to satisfy .... hmmmmm... whatever it is that is being satisfied?
Excuse me, but it doesn't get any friggin' dumber than "Hillary supporters" circling the wagons for McCain and Palin.
There is another way of looking at it where it does get dumber. Maybe the real dumbarses are the men in the Democratic Party who continue to defend its platform against the GOP draconianism in the area of women's rights. If it is all about identity politics, aren't we Democratic men really stoopid for essentially giving up on demographics we could easily have, to defend the rights of people who have made it clear that they loathe us by default?
If Dem male politicians and voters followed the example of the PUMAS, they'd throw in the towel on Roe. Parent
Meanwhile, while you may not be arguing with PUMAs, it does seem you're eager to let their behavior over the last several days off the hook. Which surprised me, given some of your past writings...... Parent
And some people might have been more upset with the process by which Hillary was eliminate than avid Hillary supporters. But agin, with those people there are precious few that will vote for McCain regardless of who he puts on the ticket. So again, you are largely preaching to the choir. Parent
A pox on both their houses! IMOP, Obama will destroy my Party and Republican rule will continue for 20-30 years ala when Carter was President. I want my Party to stand on its core issues and that means no sexism and respect for women. I don't want my Party's nominee to state that late term abortions are only ok if it endangers a woman's physical health (this also implies that mental health should not be covered). I want my Party's nominee to stand for Universal Health Care, to get rid of FISA, to get us out of Iraq and not change your message for your audience, to be against oil drilling and provide a coherent argument against it and for alternative energy. I want my Party's nominee to embrace blue collar workers and not characterize them as low information, racist Bubbas and Archie Bunkers. I want my Party to promote free and fair elections and not disenfranchise voters.
If Obama loses, it is his and my Party's fault, and not Hillary or Bill, the despicable bloggers who spew hate, nor the PUMAs.
No, I don't support Palin or McCain on any of the issues or her breaking the glass ceiling. In fact, it will break my heart if the Republicans are the ones to get the first woman President, when my Party had the best candidate of all and my Party completely trashed her and relegated her to the traditional support role.
I hope to see Hillary as Majority Leader, because, I believe that she would bring about real progressive change even if McCain is President wheras I am not confident that the Democrats would go against an AA President no matter how wrong on the issues or appointments. I have no confidence that Obama will fight for the issues important to me and everyday Americans. Of course, I don't have confidence that McCain will either. So no to both and I will work for a Democratic Congress with real leadership. Parent
(omfg) Parent
Got it now? Parent
I thought what we were discussiing here is, who is in the business of actively creating the Palin love that is coming. The Obama overreachers and the PUMAs are two of the biggest culprits. One difference being, long after Kos and Sullivan have let the tabloidization go, the PUMAs will still be waxing outraged over any perceived slight against Palin. Parent
McCain intends to start more wars after being sworn in. And intends to do nothing about health care. And with Palin's help, intends to roll back civil liberties by several decades. If Palin's treatment was "horrifying," then what adjective rightly describes the real stakes posed by her and McCain.
Sorry, but as real and as bad as it is, sexism among Democrats in America 2008 is NOT the country's biggest problem right now. Not even close. To think otherwise is simply not to think. Parent
Attack her for her positions on issues all you want. But, the defense of her is coming from those who see the same type of attacks comaing against her that were used against Clinton. Parent
She had supporters who are conservative dems who are conservative on social issues. The "Reagan" dems, they have been called. These Clinton supporters will have no problem at all with Palin's position on social issues.
I'm sure there were also some percentage of Clinton supporters who supported her solely because she is a woman. McCain will have a chance to win them over as well as the conservative dems.
By picking Palin McCain is also trying to get any repug women who were planning to support Obama back to the McCain side. And, he is trying to appeal to female indys.
All of those who supported Clinton, didn't do so for her position on social issues. And McCain is not trying to go after the Clinton supporters who are socially liberal with the selection of Palin. Parent
The battle is for the independents this election, and I don't see Palin helping all that much there. Parent
Just how many of Hillary's voters in small town, rural, working class, gun-toting, bitter bible clinging PA, OH, WV, KY etc do you think were voting for Clinton because they are pro-choice? You know those voters that the media called out for lack of education, being poor, being racist and every other name in the book they could think of. Parent
Everyone underestimated McCain and his campaign. They called them incompetant. And, I think most are underestimating him again over the selection of Palin.
The media claims to have been caught off guard and surprised by the pick. So much so that they had nothing at the ready to go with when she was announced. YOu know they all kinds of stuff ready to go if he picked Romney or Ridge. They shouldn't have been surprised at all. Palin's name has been floated out there as a possibility for months now.
Dems underestimate McCain at their own risk.
By the time Axelrod and Plouffe find an effective counter-meme, McCain will have moved on to the next sucker punch. Obama might be good at playing hoops, but McCain's proving to be the better boxer. Parent
And even if you think 18 is too young, shouldn't it be Levi's mother, not Sarah Palin, to bear the brunt of the critcism? Parent
BTD is proving to be quite the oracle.
In general, I think that a lot of us, who are, indeed, only less aligned with Obama than even BTD, are in a position to see things more clearly because we have so much less investment in the Democratic Party than we did before.
I see in Sarah Palin a newcomer to the scene, someone utterly unknown to me, and my reaction is: well, apart from her rather hideous ideology, what kind of person and political leader might she be?
Jeralyn and the other liberal bloggers, however, who know nothing more about her than we do (i.e., nothing), seem 100% convinced that she must be the Devil's Spawn, and it's just a matter of lining up some "facts" to confirm what is already known. If those "facts" have to be stretched to the breaking point, or, in the case of the worst of the bloggers, simply made up out of thin air, that is no moral impediment.
But there certainly will be a backlash over this. Whether it will include more people than the number of people who fall for these smear attacks, I won't pretend to know, so I can't say who will be helped or hurt on balance. I think a lot will depend on how well McCain and Palin (still basically an unknown quantity to me) can handle it.
I will certainly say that I'm not sure I've seen a worst case of purest bloodlust in liberals, in the media, and, most especially, the blogosphere (might we rename it now the bile-osphere?)
And the more I read the posts and comments on this blog, the more I wonder if there is anywhere on the Internet a place I might call home. Parent
;)
Democrats should win big this year. Let's just hope they don't screw it up.
Democrats are good at screwing up elections. Parent
Politics is merely a reflection of our own apathy and disconnect. Blame politicians all you want. It is WE THE PEOPLE who have the ability, but not the will, to change things. Parent
I'm sure the Obama campaign is thrilled with that.
I'd put every dime I have on Clinton though. Palin isn't even close. Parent
Palin isn't even in the same league as Hillary as a politician and a candidate for POTUS. Parent
It's one of the fundamental lessons of American politics: The right wingers block vote, the left wingers form circular firing squads. Parent
Who wouldn't be excited about the idea of a woman POTUS?
Pelosi, Reed, Dean, Kerry, Kennedy... Parent
the more everyone talks about Palin and Clinton, the less anyone talks about Obama and Biden and that can't be good for thedem ticket. Parent
I wonder how much of Palin being a woman has to do with her being selected.
I wonder if the Republican party cares less about what [Palin] stands for and more about picking up the Hilary supporters who might be willing to vote Republican to support a female in office.
I wonder if the Republican party cares less about what [Palin] stands for and more about picking up the Republicans and Independents who were previously unenthused about McCain because they might be willing to vote Republican to support a female in office.
I seriously doubt there is/was much hope to get Dem voters who were enthused about Hillary to vote Rep by nominating Palin. Parent
Maybe KO can do an interview too?
And that newspaper board? Parent
But Obama goes on O'Reilly and he's brilliant??? Whatever. Parent
McCain makes one announcement and the HRC stories are completely gone on the nightly news and all but gone on the blogs. He did what Obama could not do. If I were a republican operative, I might be a bit angry at this point.....
Comments at 200, thread closed.