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Thursday Open Thread

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    Ughhh . . . (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by GeekLove08 on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 10:50:19 AM EST
    It is comments like this that will turn people off.

    For posts with my name on them (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 10:52:10 AM EST
    I am deleting offensive comments.

    Take your sexism somewhere else people. Not Geek Love but the comment she was replying to.

    Parent

    god (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 10:57:20 AM EST
    we miss you

    Parent
    Thanks again. (none / 0) (#17)
    by GeekLove08 on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 10:55:24 AM EST
    As you can see, your services are needed here.

    Parent
    I guess that was me. Sorry to offend. (none / 0) (#28)
    by Don in Seattle on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:00:39 AM EST
    I was unaware it mattered whose name was on the Open Thread. The rules are subtle, but I'll learn.

    Parent
    I monitor my posts (5.00 / 4) (#48)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:07:36 AM EST
    including Open Threads.

    However, people banned from my threads can post in Open Threads, even if I put them up.

    We are charged with moderating our own posts.

    Sexism and other isms are not allowed my posts.

    I am PC.

    Parent

    Our long national nightmare (5.00 / 3) (#13)
    by Steve M on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 10:52:24 AM EST
    is finally over.

    Kwame Kilpatrick has agreed to a guilty plea.  Good news for the city of Detroit.

    What do you know about Ken Cockrel (new Mayor)? (none / 0) (#18)
    by andgarden on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 10:56:33 AM EST
    He's alright (5.00 / 3) (#39)
    by Steve M on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:03:43 AM EST
    His dad was a major figure back in the day.  The son seems like he's serious enough to bring some stability back to the city, and with everyone seemingly longing for stability it will probably happen.  The City Council can be a fairly dysfunctional body, so I don't think Cockrel is any kind of political superstar, but right now he just needs to be solid.

    It's not clear whether Cockrel will run for Mayor in his own right after he finishes Kilpatrick's term; I wouldn't be surprised if he does.  There's talk of Dave Bing running; Bing is a former Pistons superstar and local business leader who is very well respected.

    Another hot rumor is that former Detroit mayor Dennis Archer may run for governor.  Believe me when I say that this would be absolutely fantastic news.

    Parent

    Interesting, thanks. (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by andgarden on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:10:42 AM EST
    Finally is right on! (none / 0) (#38)
    by stefystef on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:03:13 AM EST
    What an arrogant fool.
    I always felt his problems would be a problem for Obama. I'm glad someone finally talked some sense in him.

    Lying, cheating fool.  Buh-bye, Kwame.

    Parent

    Thanks BTD! (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by standingup on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 10:54:53 AM EST
    I was pleased to read your thoughts on Palin's speech and glad you took the time to post them for us.

    I have now asked twice about calling Sen McCain... (5.00 / 3) (#22)
    by Marvin42 on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 10:57:49 AM EST
    McSame, and no response whatsoever.

    I was actually very impressed with the enforced civility in this site (compared to all the other garbage spewed). And I think its a great way of talking about people even when you completely disagree with them. You know, elevated discourse and all.

    But I fear those days are numbered.

    McCain (3.00 / 0) (#32)
    by glanton on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:01:36 AM EST
    Is offering more of the same.  McSame points that out. Accurate wordsmiting, is what that is.

    Parent
    Irony and hypocrisy overload (5.00 / 3) (#63)
    by Marvin42 on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:12:58 AM EST
    Seriously, my head just blew up....there grabbed new head.

    Whether you agree with someone or not, whether its called "branding" or whether you argue its accurate name calling is NAME CALLING. There are many names that can be described as meeting these criteria about Sen Clinton or Sen Obama.

    It still doesn't make it right. Why can't one make the same point in an articulate manner?

    Parent

    Name Calling is Impolite and Intellectually Light (2.00 / 0) (#77)
    by glanton on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:18:53 AM EST
    Often it is even offensive.  I will give you that at least one of the first two applies to "McSame," but certainly not the third.

    Seeking to continue the Bush policies, by contrast, is of course offensive.  Not to mention far less and less intelligent, than calling McCain "McSame."

    Parent

    its interesting (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:22:12 AM EST
    a few months ago that comment would have been deleted for using that name to refer to McCain.


    Parent
    Typo: I meant (none / 0) (#80)
    by glanton on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:19:55 AM EST
    Far less polite, and less intelligent, than calling him "McSame"

    Parent
    I don't follow the logic (5.00 / 2) (#93)
    by Marvin42 on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:24:34 AM EST
    How is it that name calling is wrong, but not name calling is wrong because it implies....what exactly?

    So you are saying one can not make a very strong argument about Sen McCain being more of the same disastrous policies, that electing him is continuation of the same failed approaches, that science, reason and compassion are much better than cynicism, religion based laws and "looking into people's souls?"

    So you are telling me what I said is "weaker" and if I don't call him McSame then I am seeking to continue these policies?

    Parent

    "Wordsmiting" (5.00 / 2) (#134)
    by scribe on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:53:09 AM EST
    I like that!  

    Smiting through the use of words!

    That's one to be filed away for future reference.

    Parent

    McSame isn't an insult, it's an (2.00 / 0) (#27)
    by JoeA on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:00:18 AM EST
    exercise in branding.

    Besides,  if you are a McCain voter then presumably you feel that comparing him to Bush is a compliment?

    Parent

    Well , if we are going to use (4.00 / 3) (#166)
    by tree on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 12:35:44 PM EST
    that excuse, then the names Obambi and The One, etc.,etc. are exercises in branding. Is that acceptable to you, or do you have a double standard? All name calling should be banned, regardless of who is the recipient. If you can't make your point without it, try again or be silent, IMHO.

    Parent
    IIRC... (2.00 / 0) (#31)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:01:27 AM EST
    ...Jeralyn doesn't mind McSame because he is indeed just Bush Part II.  

     

    Parent

    For all the talk about Palin... (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 10:59:09 AM EST
    ...and appealing to the base, I really haven't heard boo about the Repubs reaching out to the Ron Paul supporters.  

    Have they simply written them off?  

    I don't know about that, but I was impressed (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by GeekLove08 on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:01:43 AM EST
    that at the roll call vote, the Republicans allowed delegates to cast votes for Ron Paul.  When I watched earlier, he got 5 votes, but I am not sure from which state.

    Parent
    They were allowed to roll call for Ron Paul, but (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by stefystef on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:05:02 AM EST
    no roll call for Hillary???
    The Republicans are being fair to all its candidates?  Naw, that's not possible.

    Parent
    Yeah . . . The world has been upside down lately (5.00 / 0) (#105)
    by GeekLove08 on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:30:26 AM EST
    Yes... (3.00 / 0) (#54)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:09:57 AM EST
    ...that's why the Ron Paul supporters had to have their own mini-convention.  

    Parent
    And they were (none / 0) (#70)
    by eric on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:15:32 AM EST
    still flying a banner behind an airplane over the freeway this morning, "Ron Paul Revolution!"

    It's like they don't realize that it's over.  Paul raise so much money, where did it go?  Strange.

    Parent

    into that spectacular (none / 0) (#75)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:17:17 AM EST
    cg commercial I expect.

    Parent
    Ron Paul's 5 votes (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by demchick on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:22:27 AM EST
    if you can believe it, came from Alaska! I thought that was awesome and spoke volumns.

    As far as reaching out...they have. Mark Halperin reported the other day that there are talks going on to have Paul endorse the McCain/Palin ticket.

    Parent

    I would tend to think... (none / 0) (#103)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:29:41 AM EST
    ...that RP would probably support Bob Barr before he supposed the Republican ticket.  

    Parent
    supported, not supposed. (5.00 / 1) (#107)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:31:13 AM EST
    So much for my state university degree!

    Parent
    Yeah, but they wouldn't allow him to (none / 0) (#97)
    by JoeA on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:25:38 AM EST
    speak at the convention.  I don't think he even got credentialed

    Parent
    I think the attitude is (5.00 / 1) (#135)
    by TomStewart on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:53:32 AM EST
    where are they gonna go?

    I see that they're sending Palin to a bunch of areas and constituencies that they should have already sewed up. The repubs don't seem to be attracting new voters, but trying to hang on to their old ones.

    Parent

    I saw Ron Paul at the Convention ... (none / 0) (#127)
    by santarita on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:48:50 AM EST
    for Palin's speech.  And I recall hearing that there had been some efforts at dialogue.

    Parent
    Barnbabe (5.00 / 3) (#30)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:01:23 AM EST
    I hope you are right (from the other thread)
    but they need to come back.  rules are not so bad.
    I have actually found that the rules  here have made me a much better debater.
    being forced to make my point without profanity, among other things, is something that has been good for me.
    if we let this site be taken over by the haters, well, let just try to not let that happen.

    by the way (5.00 / 5) (#35)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:02:25 AM EST
    I am still waiting to hear when Palin is stepping down.
    any news?


    The InTrade.com market rates the chances that (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by Don in Seattle on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:11:15 AM EST
    Palin will step down at 8%, down 6% from yesterday.

    Buy low, sell high.

    Parent

    hey (none / 0) (#66)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:13:32 AM EST
    theres still a chance, right?


    Parent
    They only want to talk about taxes and energy (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by Manuel on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:05:10 AM EST
    Palin is a decoy.  She is drawing fire away from McCain. Why we fell for that I don't know.  On the issues that matter to the voters Dems will need to win in places like OH, Dems are right on the economy, health care, and education.  The Republicans want to shift that to talking about taxes (on their terms) and energy.

    The "drill now" energy approach is attractive to many voters.  This needs to be neutralized by emphasizing a long term balanced approaach.  BTW This is Palin's strongest issue.  I think the Obama campaign is doing a good job in this area.

    On tax policy, the Republicans are trying to resurrect the tax and spend Dem image.  The argument against this is to bring up the corruption and tax breaks for the wealthy during the Bush years.  The Clinton fiscal record is a good weapon in this area.

    The chant of "Drill Now" was ... (5.00 / 1) (#133)
    by santarita on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:51:56 AM EST
    strange to say the least.  That doesn't represent much of an energy policy and it certainly doesn't represent much of an environmental policy.  I hope the Dem ticket hits the Republicans hard for that.

    Parent
    little need for Obama, or Biden, or ... (2.00 / 0) (#116)
    by wystler on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:39:34 AM EST
    ... surrogates to attack Palin. The punditocracy, along with the reporters of the traditional media, are already doing it.

    It seems pretty clear that the popular press narrative on Alaska's Governor is, at least, as unflattering as was their narrative for Al Gore and Dukakis. Perhaps it could also be mentioned that, unlike Gore, the press isn't making up bald-faced lies about Sarah Palin.

    Parent

    Beware the media (5.00 / 0) (#141)
    by Manuel on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:55:45 AM EST
    Starting last night the story line is changing to attack dog champion of conservative values.  Plus she is attacking Obama and distracting the media from focusing on McCain and his connection to Bush.

    Parent
    There has got to come a point (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by glanton on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:07:10 AM EST
    Where Hillary Clinton reaches her limit with the Republicans invoking her name.  The only marginally respectable aspect of Palin's speech last night was that she didn't go there yet again, although weknow she will continue to go there in targeted ways.

    But Rudy sure said her name, and thunderous applause erupted from the Craven GOP delegation.  Rudy!!!!  Who has denigrated her to the nines, for years.  Applause!!!! From people who have done everything possible to demonize her for over a decade now.

    I agree with those who say it is not up to her to come to Obama's rescue, that it is up to Obama and Biden to court middle and working class demographics, and court women, that Hillary earned.  But this is not about Obama, it's about what will happen to this country as a result of the election.  

    And then there is the human level.  As a human being she has to be outraged at the way the GOP s doormatting her.  A "Stop saying my name" speech is in order.

    Personally I think she should remain quiet. (5.00 / 3) (#90)
    by Maria Garcia on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:23:31 AM EST
    Let Obama handle it. He's more than capable. Adding Hillary to the mix will just fan the flames.

    Parent
    Well, somebody with some stroke (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by glanton on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:55:15 AM EST
    Needs to tell these people to stop saying her name.  Some have been arguing that the Palin pick, and they saying of Hillary's name, never had anything to do with courting Hill's disaffected supporters.  Well, yes and no; likely some of that is the goal, just picking off a few, but it's probably not as much of an issue as some of us, myself included, sometimes allow ourselves to believe.  

    But we can be sure of one thing.  Every time they say her name they are: Rubbing it in, rubbing it in, rubbing it in.  How fun for them this must be.
    It is insulting to everything she has fought for throughout her political life.

    The problem with Obama saying it would be his lack of credibility re standing up for Hill, since the perception is (fair or not) that they do not like each other personally, not even a little bit.  Some would maybe even see it as "sexist," as in, the big macho man is swooping in to defend the maligned, defeated female politico.

    Since it is her name and her legacy that are being dragged through the mud, she's still got the most position of strength from which to get in front of a nunch of cameras and call them out for doing it.


    Parent

    Rudy and Hillary......... (5.00 / 2) (#143)
    by vml68 on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:56:42 AM EST
    I am paraphrasing here but I believe Rudy said there is only one thing that they can agree with Hillary on and that is that Obama is not qualified for the 3am phone call. He was not praising Hillary in any way. He was using her words to bash Obama.

    Parent
    Change of heart (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by Carolyn in Baltimore on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:13:17 AM EST
    I was for Hillary, Gore, Edwards, Kucinich - Obama was a last choice for me from among many good candidates. His acceptance speech made me feel better.
    I wouldn't have voted for McCain ever but his cynical and reckless choice of Palin, along with the fact that I suspect he won't stay healthy mentally or physically has made me determined to not just tepidly vote for the democratic ticket but to fight hard for it.

    You don't need to be sexist or get into her family to dislike the pitbull w/ lipstick (her self-description). While I found her quite interesting and appealing in a weird sort of way, she is someone I don't even want picking DOJ appointments much less being our VP or near the Presidency.

    Did you also nottice (5.00 / 2) (#98)
    by demchick on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:26:12 AM EST
    before it was taken down that it had not bene updated in well over a year? So I guess him saying he didn't want kids was a long time ago. I am betting he feels differently now.

    Look, the pregnancy was no secret at all in Alaska, everyone knew. It was not a scandal and isn't one now. Let it go. Nothing good can come from constantly talking about it.

    well (5.00 / 3) (#102)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:28:38 AM EST
    unfortunately I think we are getting a glimpse at what the next 60 days are going to look like.
    ugly.
    left blogistan reeks of desperation.  its going to get ugly.

    Cant tell (1.00 / 1) (#158)
    by domerdem on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 12:18:49 PM EST
    if there are more PUMAs -- we should elect McCain for 4 years -- or true GOP types -- we should elect McCain for 8 years -- prowling around here today.  Probably 50-50.  

    Parent
    your discernment skills have been (none / 0) (#176)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 12:55:40 PM EST
    pretty clear for a while.

    Parent
    As are your PUMA credentials (1.00 / 1) (#181)
    by domerdem on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 01:08:10 PM EST
    I am actualy not a puma but (none / 0) (#186)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 01:32:39 PM EST
    heres a great puma quote just for you:

    "I hope they blame us. That will give us power. With that power we can clean up the Dem party"

    Parent

    You would know. (1.00 / 2) (#188)
    by domerdem on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 01:36:01 PM EST
    you damn right I would (none / 0) (#191)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 01:53:13 PM EST
    R.I.P. one more hero (5.00 / 4) (#124)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:46:55 AM EST
    there are a few people I have enjoyed reading on the net over the years.  over the last few months they have been disappearing from my bookmarks list one by one.
    another one bites the dust.  James Wolcott.  he has jumped the shark.  I think we have a new and dangerous disease PDS.
    I cant even post the title of the rant here its to vile:

    Link

    this is one of the worst (5.00 / 2) (#137)
    by bjorn on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:54:47 AM EST
    I have seen, even worse than some of the Hillary stuff.  very sad.

    Parent
    sad (5.00 / 2) (#140)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:55:35 AM EST
    indeed

    Parent
    Hence the name of the magazine.... (none / 0) (#153)
    by vicndabx on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 12:12:28 PM EST
    "Vanity Fair, " need I say more....

    Parent
    That's a term (5.00 / 3) (#138)
    by suki on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:54:59 AM EST
    that has been around for a long time.
    Certainly no talking point.

    ha (5.00 / 1) (#145)
    by connecticut yankee on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 12:00:50 PM EST
    I just watched a funny daily show clip with Karl Rove suggesting Tim Kaine wasnt qualified because he had only been mayor of a small town of 200k before being governor.  Too funny.

    huh her telemprompter malfunctioned (5.00 / 1) (#150)
    by facta non verba on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 12:09:28 PM EST
    From MSNBC:

    Halfway through Sarah Palin's speech tonight at the RNC, people following the speech noticed she was deviating from the prepared text.

    According to sources close to the McCain campaign, the teleprompter continued scrolling during applause breaks.

    As a result, half way through the speech, the speech had scrolled significantly from where Governor Palin was in the speech. The malfunction also occurred during Rudy Giuliani's speech, explaining his significant deviations from his speech.

    Unfazed, Governor Palin continued, from memory, to deliver her speech without the teleprompter cued to the appropriate point in her speech.


    Palin's qualifications (3.25 / 4) (#5)
    by eric on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 10:50:04 AM EST
    I know that people are squeamish about discussing her family.  But what about her?  We know that she is a little light on political gravitas.  But she is also very light on education.

    A visit to Wikipedia reveals that Palin has a degree in "communications-journalism" from the University of Idaho.  She managed this after 5 years and 3 colleges.  (She also attended the prestigious institutions Hawaii Pacific and North Idaho College).  Call me an elitist but I don't think this is exactly a confidence inspiring educational background for a Vice-President.

    People keep talking about character and experience.  But isn't one's education just as telling?

    No (5.00 / 6) (#10)
    by bjorn on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 10:52:05 AM EST
    just because someone doesn't go to Yale or Harvard doesn't mean they are not educated.  

    Parent
    I am not saying (2.75 / 4) (#52)
    by eric on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:08:51 AM EST
    that one cannot be educated in the Idaho University system, just that when weighing one's credentials, education SHOULD matter.  At a minimum, it is a reflection of one's motivation and innate intelligence.

    Are Columbia and Harvard better colleges than the University Idaho?  Of course they are.  That doesn't mean that you can't get a perfectly serviceable communications degree from Idaho.  But it IS valid to consider the quality of one's education, it seems to me.  I know that every job that I ever applied for considered my education.

    BTW, just to be fair, it looks like Biden went to Univeristy of Delaware and Syracuse for Law School.

    Parent

    And Bush went to Yale (5.00 / 4) (#68)
    by Manuel on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:14:34 AM EST
    Where you went to school is not a leading indicator of the ability to do a job.

    Parent
    That's just the thing (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by eric on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:22:17 AM EST
    we all know that Bush barely got a BA on a legacy from Yale.  We DO consider that.  We know that he would have attended some community college it if weren't for his family.

    Education does matter.  Not the degrees or the titles, the education.  I agree that having Harvard or Yale on your resume shouldn't mean anything by itself.  One needs to look at it in context. But communications from Idaho sounds, to me, like GWB territory.

    Parent

    Bush won twice (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by bjorn on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:50:14 AM EST
    with his "legacy" degree.  You would do better to talk about Obama's accomplishments as a constitutional lawyer than to focus on where he went to school or where Palin went to school.

    Parent
    Really (5.00 / 1) (#155)
    by TomStewart on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 12:17:32 PM EST
    Bush won once, the Supreme Court won it for him the first time.

    Parent
    I don't like this line of attack and... (5.00 / 4) (#74)
    by Maria Garcia on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:16:51 AM EST
    ..I went to an ivy league grad school.

    Parent
    really (5.00 / 4) (#79)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:19:13 AM EST
    you have to wonder what kind of bubble people live in to think this line of attack will do anything but get her more votes.

    Parent
    It's not an attack (3.50 / 2) (#91)
    by eric on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:23:37 AM EST
    and its not meant to get votes.  It is just me questioning why somebody with a degree in communications from Idaho is going to be on the VP ballot.

    Parent
    um,, lets see (5.00 / 2) (#101)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:27:23 AM EST
    because she is a fairly amazing candidate?


    Parent
    I saw a comment ... (5.00 / 2) (#184)
    by Robot Porter on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 01:14:11 PM EST
    at the orangey place in which the poster argued that she was uncomfortable with the idea of Todd Palin at state dinners because he didn't go to college.

    "What would he talk about?" this poster said.

    What kind of people are these progressive blogs breeding?

    Parent

    It may be (3.00 / 3) (#108)
    by eric on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:31:45 AM EST
    but how low are we willing to go?  Is a HS diploma required?

    Again, I am not dissing state schools, I am not saying that a degree from a prestigious school is required or even an indication of one's abilities.  And I am not trying to be elitist.

    What I AM saying is that, considering the totality of the circumstances, Ms. Palin's education is pretty suspect, and compared to what I would expect from someone elected to such a high office, insufficient.

    Parent

    yeah well (5.00 / 1) (#113)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:35:23 AM EST
    good luck with it

    Parent
    She seems more articulate than (5.00 / 3) (#144)
    by santarita on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:59:05 AM EST
    G W Bush.  

    One's undergraduate college becomes less important the more experience one has.  State universities and colleges produce people that are competent and intelligent.    

    Parent

    Maybe it's because (5.00 / 4) (#119)
    by hookfan on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:42:10 AM EST
    the repubs are running "the democrats are elitist" frame (which your comment seems to be falling prey too), and her state school "credentials" plays well to the working class. Remember them? Yeah us "hicks"? There are alot of us in swing states. How Palin got the money to even get to College is impressive to working stiffs. How'd Obama get his money? See? She is working class. He's, well, not. You should have noted the theme in her speech. the bitter/cling/guns/religion theme. You attack her this way to Obama's peril.
       By the way, I live in Washington state and have several friends from Alaska. they inform me that Palin is an exceptional impromptu speaker. And, by the way, did you know Palin's teleprompter had a glitch during her speech? She still did well though didn't she?
       Don't underestimate this woman. You will do so at your peril.

    Parent
    I think that's where the pitbull joke came in... (none / 0) (#179)
    by Realleft on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 01:02:22 PM EST
    I could see the teleprompter at that point and I didn't see anything about pit bulls.  But the next line was straight off the tele...

    Parent
    That, coupled with the price of argula (5.00 / 2) (#136)
    by GeekLove08 on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:53:33 AM EST
    at Whole Foods is going to do wonders for the Democrats in November.

    Parent
    the degree matters more than the school (none / 0) (#67)
    by VelvetElvis on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:14:33 AM EST
    You can get a good education at a state school.

    On the other hand, there's little in a journalism degree that prepares one for a career in government.

    History, political science, philosophy, sociology and even psychology would all likely give one a better skill set for that kind of woke.

    She did learn how to read a teleprompter and interact with cameras during her brief career as a sportscaster, however.


    Parent

    Ronald Reagan (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by Manuel on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:16:45 AM EST
    was also a sports journalist.  A background in journalism gives people communication skills.  This is an advantage in politics.

    Parent
    Communications, yes, but not (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by eric on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:25:23 AM EST
    in governing, as we learned with the tragedy that was the 1980's.

    Parent
    Erm... (3.50 / 2) (#174)
    by Cairo Faulkner on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 12:51:31 PM EST
    ...why the hell does everyone keep doing this? You say a degree in journalism from Idaho doesn't qualify you for the Vice Presidency. I wasn't aware Sarah Palin had only just graduated. She's done some other things between that, like being a politician, a mayor, and what was that other thing? Oh that was it, a governor.

    Eric, your posts are horrifically elitist. I can't even be sure you're serious. Are you? Why exactly does this matter? Because she didn't go to Harvard or Yale? Or is it just that she didn't study law? Honestly.

    I've noticed many people doing this recently, breaking down her (perfectly real and legitimate) achievements. The original Obama statement denigrated her as a mayor of a small town. You're now talking about her as if she were merely a journalism graduate. Take another look at her title. She is a governor. For God's sake, that puts her in a pretty special position right there. You don't just skip into something like that. She has achieved an enormous amount, at a relatively young age. Take her on for what she's done, but can we quit acting like becoming a governor doesn't matter? It's stupid, jealous, and transparent.

    Parent

    We may hate the policies (and I do) (none / 0) (#130)
    by Manuel on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:50:06 AM EST
    but there is no denying that he was profoundly influential and managed to push much of his agenda through Congress.  I would say he demonstrated the ability to get elected and govern effectively.  Obama aspires to Reagan's type of effect on the system (with progressive policies, of course).

    Don't underestimate people without advanced degrees.  With Palin since she wasn't ignored as she should have been, it is best to try to raise expectations for her.  It may be too late for that.


    Parent

    Depends, doesn't it? (none / 0) (#147)
    by santarita on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 12:05:04 PM EST
    A good investigative journalist is curious and follows up with question, which are traits that would have served Bush well, no?

    The degree is only somewhat relevant.  The totality of the education level, work and life experiences have to be looked at.

    Parent

    But eric... (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 10:56:36 AM EST
    ...she's has a minor in Political Science.  See, that changes everything!

    Except for learning what the VP actually does on a daily basis or knowing that the Founding Fathers didn't write the Pledge.  

    Parent

    what does the VP do on a daily basis (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 10:58:27 AM EST
    enlighten us.  please.

    Parent
    He/She isn't applying for the job (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by JoeA on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:02:50 AM EST
    Sarah Palin is . . . key difference.

    Parent
    neither am I but I can tell you their duties (5.00 / 2) (#47)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:07:24 AM EST
    attend the funerals of third world dictators and inquire daily as to the health of the president.

    Parent
    Great, you're more clued up on the job role (5.00 / 3) (#53)
    by JoeA on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:09:46 AM EST
    than Sarah Palin.  Gold Star and to the head of the line for the GOP VP nod in 2012.

    Parent
    excellent (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:12:17 AM EST
    wait till the librul blog get a load of MY closet.


    Parent
    Of course... (none / 0) (#87)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:22:30 AM EST
    ...you left out the most important one.  Not surprising.

    Parent
    With A Wink and A Nod To McCain (none / 0) (#154)
    by daring grace on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 12:12:56 PM EST
    lets see (none / 0) (#177)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 12:56:51 PM EST
    can you tell us whos VP she is going to be?


    Parent
    I Was Referring (5.00 / 1) (#187)
    by daring grace on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 01:35:30 PM EST
    to your quoting McCain's line on VP duties and why he didn't want to be one.

    My suspicion is, after November, she'll be no one's VP, but Alaska's governor again.

    Parent

    I am aware of that to which (none / 0) (#190)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 01:52:17 PM EST
    you were referring.
    McCains definition of a VP.  and she will be McCains VP.
    sorry.


    Parent
    No Need To Apologize (none / 0) (#192)
    by daring grace on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 02:19:52 PM EST
    Everyone's entitled to their opinion.

    Time will tell...

    Parent

    Ugh (5.00 / 7) (#23)
    by Steve M on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 10:57:55 AM EST
    I went to a state school and it doesn't make me dumber.  In my case it was because my family was middle-class and the idea of an expensive private school really wasn't on the table.  And a lot of people end up attending multiple schools simply because of stuff that's going on in your life.

    I'd also remind you, in terms of the political salience of this message, that Ohio State has a lot more alumni out there than Vassar.

    Parent

    True - doubt most of us who are (5.00 / 2) (#76)
    by inclusiveheart on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:18:24 AM EST
    living could even come close to filling up the stands in a football stadium.  But just so you know, not all of us buy into the notion that everyone who comes out of Ivy's of Seven Sisters are of superior caliber just because they attended those schools.  They are good schools, but as with everything how people come out of them has everything to do with what they put into attending them.

    To me the qustion of education comes down to whether or not someone came out of their journey with decent critical thinking skills.  Especially with respect to governing and policy, the ability to apply critical thinking to problems and initiatives makes for a more effective public servant.

    Parent

    Well (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by JAB on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:04:15 AM EST
    GWB went to Yale and Harvard.  How'd that work out?

    Parent
    pretty easily noted ... (none / 0) (#78)
    by wystler on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:19:11 AM EST
    ... that he was a legacy admission at Yale

    His Harvard MBA? More string-pulling.

    Parent

    This is a bad line of attack (5.00 / 5) (#59)
    by Manuel on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:11:19 AM EST
    Attacking people for where they went to college or what degrees they have only feeds into the idea of Democrats as the party of the elites.  Palin's education is as good as Reagan's.  In fact, the lack of a law degreefrom an Ivy makes her attractive to many voters.

    Parent
    She doesn't have a law degree at all. n/t (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:14:39 AM EST
    Not true (none / 0) (#81)
    by Manuel on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:20:03 AM EST
    according to Wikipedia

    Palin received a Bachelor of Science degree in communications-journalism from the University of Idaho, where she also minored in political science.



    Parent
    Thats not a law degree? nt (none / 0) (#83)
    by JoeA on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:21:44 AM EST
    Riiiiiiiight. (none / 0) (#92)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:24:11 AM EST
    Where exactly is the law degree in there?  Perhaps I should inquire where you went to school!

    Parent
    Sorry (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by Manuel on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:33:44 AM EST
    I mentioed I missed the "law" degree in ypur suject.  I assumed you were responding to my post where I said that lack of a law degree might be attractie to some voters and gave Reagan as an example of a president without a law or any other advanced degree.  Your reply made no sense as a follow up  but I should have read more carefully.

    Parent
    No - education is not just as telling (5.00 / 7) (#60)
    by fercryinoutloud on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:11:53 AM EST
    Book smarts don't equate to street smarts or political smarts.

    I've know PhD's who are dumb as snot outside their field of expertise. A law degree doesn't make you a good lawyer or even knowledgeable of the law. A business degree doesn't make you the next Bill Gates. And an engineering degree doesn't make you the next Thomas Edison.

    Parent

    are you arguing ... (2.25 / 4) (#100)
    by wystler on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:27:14 AM EST
    ... that Sarah Palin is one of our nation's best and brightest?

    If not, what's your point?

    Parent

    I knew someone (5.00 / 3) (#125)
    by fercryinoutloud on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:48:07 AM EST
    would try to inject what I didn't say into my post. Other posters get what I was saying.

    As for Palin and her political abilities versus her education; obviously she had enough education both in school and out of school to be one of only 50 people in a nation of approximately 300 million to be the Executive of a State, and a popular one at that.

    Parent

    for cryin' out loud! (none / 0) (#162)
    by wystler on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 12:28:54 PM EST
    if that's not what you intended to imply, then your post's off topic

    so which is it?

    Parent

    Are you trying to start an argument? (none / 0) (#175)
    by fercryinoutloud on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 12:55:28 PM EST
    Or unlike other posters you really don't get it?

    If you don't, can't help you.

    Parent

    Please back off with (none / 0) (#180)
    by tree on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 01:02:33 PM EST
    the vitriol. S/he was responding to a comment about Palin's education. If you don't understand the difference between a comment that says that book smarts aren't the be-all and end-all of intelligence and saying that Palin is the "best and brightest" then it appears that you don't want to see the difference.

     I got the point of the post. I'm sure lots of others did. It would help if you actually listened to what was being said instead of jumping to wild conclusions that aren't supported.

    Parent

    Oh, for goodness sakes. (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by Don in Seattle on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:26:57 AM EST
    Obama was the editor-in-chief of the Harvard Law Review, in which capacity he performed quite capably by all accounts. He wasn't some Eli legacy party student mediocrity, like W.

    Like Bill Clinton, many things about Obama are questionable, but not the quality of their education.

    Parent

    You don't get to HLS (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by scribe on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:30:34 AM EST
    as a favor, period.  You get there because you have seriously stellar academic performance all through college.

    You don't get on Harvard Law Review without being at the top end of your class in law school.  For those who never attended law school, any law school is seriously competitive.  Harvard Law is a couple hundred seriously smart people doing their utmost to out-compete the others.

    Traditionally, though I'm not sure how much it obtains today or in the late 80s, the election to be President of Harvard Law Review and being in the top 5 or 10 of the class bore a strong, positive correspondence.

    You "nagging questions" are just that - questions which have turned into nagging.

    Parent

    try getting a scholarship...From Harvard? (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by laila on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:55:54 AM EST
    I don't care what color you are to get a Harvard scholarship you have to have the grades whether it be an academic or athletic scholarships.  I have a feeling it isn't his grades he wants to avoid people seeing but maybe his the classes he took.  I know that there are some classes that brand you, and they would have access to more intimate things essays, and such what you thought when you were a 20 something year old kid is is totally different then when you are in your 40's (I won't hit that number for a while).
    As for Palin, the multiple transfers can tell us a few things, she couldn't perform academically, or she was disliked by many of the students maybe she did huge loser thing (you know how cruel kids can be) so she left, money problems, or she isn't very stable.  Whatever the case may be, it won't matter with the uneducated voters, they will say a degree is a degree.  Patiently waiting for November, and hoping that America proves me wrong.  Go Obama/Biden

    Parent
    Or (5.00 / 2) (#148)
    by JAB on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 12:05:42 PM EST
    She changed her major, or she wasn't comfortable there, or some other place had a better program.

    Ridiculous assumptions.

    Parent

    Did Obama get a scholarship to (none / 0) (#185)
    by Grace on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 01:14:42 PM EST
    HLS?  I thought it was his father that got a scholarship...  I wasn't aware that he had one also...  

    Secondly, was it an academic scholarship?  

    Parent

    Cheney's big footsteps, (5.00 / 1) (#128)
    by KeysDan on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:49:05 AM EST
    the present vice president bounced around a bit before finally getting a degree--flunked out of Yale, and then on to the University of Wyoming. Received a BA and then an MA. Entered a doctoral program at the University of Wisconsin but never, unlike his lovely wife, never completed requirements.  University of Wyoming and the University of Idaho are institutions on a par, as well.

    Parent
    yeah (1.00 / 1) (#94)
    by wystler on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:25:20 AM EST
    in your mind, i'm sure Obama's election as president of the Harvard Law Review was a fix, and you suspect a computerized vote-rigging scheme

    how do you feel, though, about that neocon rag you've linked to? I'm not gonna miss the New York Sun when they cease publishing

    Parent

    To paraphraise Sen. Roman Hruska (none / 0) (#163)
    by domerdem on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 12:29:18 PM EST
    "So what if she is mediocre? There are a lot of mediocre politicians and people and lawyers. They are entitled to a little representation, aren't they? We can't have all Obamas and Clintons and stuff like that there."

    Parent
    Check Reagan's education (none / 0) (#195)
    by Prabhata on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 03:11:28 PM EST
    We win a turnout election. (2.00 / 0) (#2)
    by Pegasus on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 10:47:41 AM EST
    Palin can rally her base by attacking Obama all she wants -- our base is bigger.  If McCain-Palin doesn't offer real solutions for the problems of the middle class and wage earners (and Palin didn't last night; she didn't even try), they're going to get killed in November.  Won't matter how good the zingers are.

    Friendly warning (5.00 / 0) (#4)
    by Marvin42 on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 10:49:12 AM EST
    From someone who consoled himself in 2000 and 2004 with this EXACT thought (and the "superior ground game, just wait and see on election day, we'll get 3% more") only to wake up to GWB twice....

    BE AFRAID.

    Parent

    Exactly (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by Carolyn in Baltimore on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:06:13 AM EST
    All they have to do is keep it close enough for the Diebold/vote supression/caging etc results to be believable.
    We won in 2000 and I believe in 2004 also.

    Parent
    sure, 9-11 9-11 9-11 (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:07:22 AM EST
    I am afraid.  I am afraid that John Kerry will be nominated again and relieve every insomniac of their malady.  The speeches are reflective of a wounded dog, the attack lines are redundant from previous elections and are not sticking. The "elite" tags and "evil liberalism" worked previously because we were in a different economic environment and culture wars were framed much better by Mr. Rove.

    McCain cannot escape his 90-95% voting record with Bush and Foxnews is doing more for the democrats than you can imagine.  With GDP and productivity rising, Foxnews and their punditry keep saying "what recession"?  Pretending that we have not lost nearly 66,000 jobs a month while productivity increases meaning more money for the business owners is not a big deal helps the left more than anything McCain can say or do.  People watching fox who have been laid off will not buy into it.

    Furthermore, the jobless claims do not reflect professionals who accepted severance packages who must forego unemployment insurance and are not counted which is a substantial number.  The stimulus has run out and our service economy will do more than hiccup over the next 3 months.  With more people losing their jobs, less money will be spent causing even more people to lose their jobs crippling an economy that is greater than 70% service related.

    And you know who gets credit for that? George W Bush.  And you know who voted with him 90-95% of the time?  John McCain.  You cannot draw a parallel between a wartime incumbent and a walking ambien to a lowest approval ranking administration and excellent orator with any degree of legitimacy.  

    The economic situation in this country would be magnified greatly were it not for the stimulus package approved but its legislators, which is ironic as they would have benefitted the most if the economy were not artificially inflated.   I think the October surprise will be disenfranchised american workers who are hearing from the right and from foxnews that the economy is just fine and americans need to free themselves from their whininess.  They will alright, by voting for the party who did not put them in this situation and who recognizes and acknowledges that the economy and jobs outlook really suck.

    Parent

    Maybe you misunderstood my post (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by Marvin42 on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:16:29 AM EST
    I wasn't predicting or wishing for the outcome. I was just giving friendly warning that this kind of "comfort" is misplaced. Democrats should have won every WH election since 1988, but have only managed to win 2.

    Parent
    This isn't 2000 or 2004. (3.00 / 0) (#8)
    by Pegasus on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 10:50:51 AM EST
    There is a clear voter ID for Democrats this year.  Our base is significantly bigger in 2008, and it wasn't in those years.

    Parent
    voter ID advantage* (none / 0) (#11)
    by Pegasus on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 10:52:07 AM EST
    My kingdom to be able to edit comments.

    Parent
    Charlie Cook suggested ... (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by Robot Porter on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:08:36 AM EST
    that McCain might not have the micro-targeting operation that Bush used in '04.

    Most feel it was that aspect of Bush's GOTV that handed him the election. They really should not have won that election.  Even with Kerry's mistakes the fundamentals still favored him.  And Kerry GOTV exceeded targets.

    If it's true that he doesn't have this operation, he will have a tough time winning, no matter where the polls are.

    Parent

    this is why Palin was picked (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:10:37 AM EST
    those operations are ramping up now.
    or so I have been reading.

    Parent
    Oh, I hope you're right. (2.00 / 0) (#9)
    by gentlyweepingguitar on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 10:51:30 AM EST
    We need every vote we can get, including the ones Diddy brings in. I don't care why anyone votes for Obama, I just want them to color in the circle beside his name.  I'm praying with all my heart that the voting machines work properly this time around.

    Parent
    Roger Simon @ Politico on Palin (2.00 / 1) (#89)
    by JoeA on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:23:27 AM EST
    and McCain's strange standards for the media when commenting on her family.

    We should stop reporting on the families of the candidates. Unless the candidates want us to.

    Sarah Palin wanted the media to report on her teenage son, Track, who enlisted in the Army on Sept. 11, 2007, and soon will deploy to Iraq.

    Sarah Palin did not want the media to report on her teenage daughter, Bristol, who is pregnant and unmarried.

    Sarah Palin thinks that one is good for her campaign and one is not, and that the media should report only on what is good for her campaign. That is our job, and that is our duty. If that is not actually in the Constitution, it should be. (And someday may be.)



    Wow (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by Steve M on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:34:29 AM EST
    LINK

    One of the snarkiest things you will ever read in the media.

    Has there been a lot of sexism directed at Palin?  Absolutely.  Has the McCain campaign used that as an excuse to deflect a lot of legitimate questions?  They sure have.  Should they refrain from that sort of "perceived whine"?  No, that's only for Democrats.

    Parent

    Hilarious, the cockerel has come home (none / 0) (#115)
    by JoeA on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:38:53 AM EST
    to roost for McCain big time.  His campaigns attacks on the media for having the temerity to ask questions has backfired and his "base" are pi$$ed at him.

    Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

    Parent

    Mmmm....don't think so (none / 0) (#149)
    by JAB on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 12:08:50 PM EST
    Last night's polling shows that, by a ten-to-one margin, voters believe reporters are trying to hurt Palin's campaign rather than help. Republicans and unaffiliated voters strongly believe that a double standard is being applied to Palin because she is a woman. Democrats disagree. Perhaps most stunning is that, among unaffiliated voters, just 42% believe Obama has better experience than Palin to be President. Thirty-seven percent (37%) say Palin has the edge on experience. Again, most of the interviews for this survey were completed before Palin's well-received speech last night.

    Polling released yesterday showed that 12% of Americans now believe Palin is Very Likely to be the first woman elected President of the United States. Fourteen percent (14%) say the same about Hillary Clinton.

    Link

    While, according to this same poll, Obama still leads McCain 47%-43%,

    Today is the second straight day that the results have inched very slightly in McCain's direction as the GOP convention gets underway and seeks to overcome Obama's convention bounce.


    Parent
    Right... (1.50 / 2) (#82)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:21:06 AM EST
    ...because "straights" isn't at all condesending.  Heck, why not go with "breeders" while you're at it?

    what would you prefer? (5.00 / 2) (#88)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:22:53 AM EST
    heterosexuals?
    Im good with that.  

    Parent
    Trick question? (none / 0) (#3)
    by Marvin42 on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 10:48:03 AM EST
    Because I wanna say very?

    This whole Palin mess, and that My Space (none / 0) (#7)
    by BronxFem on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 10:50:48 AM EST
    entry from the father of Palin's grandchild, is just too gruesome and in many ways very, very sad.  To be very specific, the combination of unbridled ambition, lack of responsibility, and lack of vision are never good traits for anybody.  The voters known as low information voters, or Reagan democrats, or working class whites, or whatever you want to call them are the very ones who will decide the election, and the ones BO has to court if he wants to win.

    I might agree... (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by EL seattle on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:00:46 AM EST
    ... except that those same sad traits have been exhibited by the denizens of the left wing blogosphere in such heavy quantities over the past few months that you have to wonder if there's a dime's worth of difference between the self-described "patriots" of the right and the self-described "progressives" of the left.

    Parent
    What Myspace (none / 0) (#16)
    by eric on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 10:54:58 AM EST
    entry are you referring to?

    Parent
    The media were quoting from Palin's (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by JoeA on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:01:42 AM EST
    future son-in-laws My Space page.  

    Nothing particularly shocking for a 17 year old boy to be honest.

    Parent

    The MySpace comments were a year ago (5.00 / 2) (#49)
    by stefystef on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:08:05 AM EST
    There hadn't been any update to the website for months.  Never met a teen dad who wanted to be a teen dad.  So I didn't find it disturbing or shocking.  

    Teen pregnancies don't have the same shame as 30 years ago.  Even Jamie Lynn Spears sent Bristol Palin a baby gift.  From one preggie teen to another...

    Parent

    Where he was a self-described (none / 0) (#109)
    by scribe on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:32:10 AM EST
    "f---'g redneck" and promised to "kick your as*".

    Teenagers.

    Parent

    Not just (2.00 / 1) (#167)
    by eric on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 12:37:53 PM EST
    teenagers, pregnant teenagers.

    Parent
    TPM David Kurtz.... (none / 0) (#20)
    by NealB on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 10:56:52 AM EST
    ....asks "Where's Hillary?" Last week she told all of us to do all we could to elect Obama/Biden. I can't wait to hear what she has to say about Palin/McCain.

    Explain...... (none / 0) (#122)
    by michitucky on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:43:44 AM EST
    What's your point with this comment???

    You want to hear what she has to say or how dare she not being out there being the attack dog for Obama because she said she'd do anything to get him elected???

    Parent

    Further to BTD's point in last post (none / 0) (#25)
    by JoeA on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 10:58:39 AM EST
    James Fallows makes a very similar argument here

    Quote excerpted below,  but worth reading the whole thing.

    To return to the main theme: both Reagan in 1964 and Obama in 2004 were effective because, apart from their personal skills, they added something to their party's constituency that had not been there before. Reagan began recruiting the "Reagan Democrats," starting with white Southerners. Obama tried to recruit people tired of divisive partisanship.

    Sarah Palin, at least tonight, did not seem interested in bringing anyone new into the fold. A speech that was great in the convention hall. We'll see how it affects the electoral lineup.



    I think the "newness" was ... (5.00 / 3) (#117)
    by Robot Porter on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:40:15 AM EST
    there largely it what wasn't said rather than what was.

    The best example of this is that neither the word "liberal" or the word "conservative" was uttered anywhere in that speech.

    She also never said Republican.  And she referred to the "Democratic Nominee" rather than the term "Democrat Nominee" that is favored by conservatives.  And she only used that word once.

    On the other hand "love" was used three times.

    Also, perhaps taking a cue from Obama, she included nothing in the speech that could be seen as refighting the battles of the sixties.

    All that seemed new to me.

    Although it may not have been as clearly new as the speeches you mentioned.  It laid the groundwork for a possible new version of Republicanism.

    Parent

    Thanks for the analysis in (none / 0) (#36)
    by bjorn on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:02:30 AM EST
    previous post BTD.  I think it is dead on.  Particulary the observation that some credibility must be established before attack speeches, otherwise, the impact is very short-term. I think if she had just done a few one liners it would have been more effective.  The McCain camp pushed it pretty hard.  I kind of makes me sad though that the morning shows are giving more air time to Guliani and Palin speeches than they did to Obama's speech.  Of course, that was because McCain stepped on it with the Palin announcement.  These strategy decisions by the McCain camp seem effective at first glance, but I am not sure they will have sticking power.

    The focus on winning each news cycle (none / 0) (#64)
    by JoeA on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:13:11 AM EST
    rather than developing a narrative and thinking long term.  That's how I've seen others put it,  and I think that is an area where the Obama campaign are wiping the floor with McCain.  

    Parent
    Is it offensive (none / 0) (#62)
    by cannondaddy on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:12:30 AM EST
    to call Palin "George Bush in lipstick" after her pitbull comment?

    Now I have a horrible ... (none / 0) (#156)
    by Robot Porter on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 12:18:12 PM EST
    image in my head of George Bush wearing lipstick.

    Please, make it stop!  Make it stop!

    ;)

    Parent

    video of Biden: "Good Looking" (none / 0) (#110)
    by BethanyAnne on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:33:43 AM EST
    Hey all,
      I actually don't want to troll, or stir things up with this comment, but I saw a comment thread a bit back about Biden calling Sarah Palin good looking.  I'll leave it up to the experts to determine the level of sexism in his comments, but I did find a video, which may help folk make up their minds.  It's here.

    Cheers,
    Bethany

    unbelievably (5.00 / 3) (#118)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:41:40 AM EST
    there seems to be some disagreement about the sexist-ness of the comment.
    it seems to me that even if you are so clueless or dishonest that you cant admit it was sexist you should be able to admit it was colossally stupid.
    but maybe not.

    Parent
    Stupid yes, but (none / 0) (#196)
    by Mshepnj on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 03:21:09 PM EST
    sexist? Biden's record is not sexism-free (Anita Hill) but I'll give him a pass on this one. I think he probably meant it as a self-deprecating remark about his own looks.

    Many people comment on Obama being young and attractive, presumably in contrast to the usual middle-aged, white guys who predominate both political parties. I note that Obama called himself "skinny" and comments on his "funny name".

    Parent

    One thing I will say ... (5.00 / 2) (#169)
    by Robot Porter on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 12:41:06 PM EST
    I've never seen a Vice Presidential candidate have more fun than Biden appears to be having.  He looks like he's loving every moment of this.

    And good for him.  He should.

    The "good looking" comment used to make a  self-deprecating remark about himself seems fairly harmless.

    Mildly sexist at best.

    But wasn't he chosen partly because he is the mildly racist, mildly sexist guy who is supposed to appeal to certain voters?

    Parent

    touche (5.00 / 1) (#178)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 12:58:39 PM EST
    personally I think they may live to regret that reasoning.

    Parent
    Palin (none / 0) (#114)
    by Lahdee on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:38:18 AM EST
    She's done what needed to be done, at least from the McCain campaign perspective, she delivered red meat to the faithful on one night in St. Paul, she bonded with them and sent thrills through the religious right. Going forward I don't expect we'll see much of her outside of the base McCain now expects to hold. She's not going away and neither is the base.
    The middle, beyond an appeal to momness (hey I'm just like you middle America mom), won't be swayed.

    Friday she will be soooo yesterday, dragged out as necessary, adding little value to the debate.

    Disagree (5.00 / 1) (#120)
    by Marvin42 on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:43:20 AM EST
    I think you will see her and her family dispatched to rural areas of swing states, and we know we will see her in the VP debate. Expect to see her shooting something.

    And I have a feeling that more "revelations" about her will be coming from the left wing blogs, which will keep her story alive and well.

    Parent

    she is headed to Florida (none / 0) (#146)
    by demchick on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 12:00:52 PM EST
    first. Then I am hearing Michigan and Ohio, West Virginia.

    Parent
    No, she and McCain will be (none / 0) (#152)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 12:12:08 PM EST
    campaigning in Colorado Springs on Saturday. I may be covering it for a larger publication, I'll keep you posted.

    Parent
    Perhaps I should clarify (none / 0) (#168)
    by demchick on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 12:37:56 PM EST
    She is headed to Florida nest week in one of her first, if not her first, solo appearance. I am aware she and McCain have joint appearances planned for the weekend. I was not referring to those. I was talking about and responding to a discussion about where they will use her and if she will be seen after this week.

    Parent
    Interesting little nugget from the WaPo... (none / 0) (#159)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 12:19:23 PM EST
    "Only 36 of the 2,380 delegates seated on the convention floor are black, the lowest number since the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies began tracking diversity at political conventions 40 years ago. Each night, the overwhelmingly white audience watches a series of white politicians step to the lectern -- a visual reminder that no black Republican has served as a governor, U.S. senator or U.S. House member in the past six years."

    I'm pretty sure I could identify most of them... (none / 0) (#182)
    by Realleft on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 01:09:02 PM EST
    from the TV coverage apparently intended to highlight that there was some diversity in the crowd.

    Parent
    Here's a line for Palin (none / 0) (#164)
    by TomStewart on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 12:29:59 PM EST
    she's cut funding for homeless teen mothers in Alaska, and funding for special needs children. The hypocrisy is truly stunning.


    The story is wrong (5.00 / 1) (#197)
    by Prabhata on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 03:27:21 PM EST
    That story is not right.  She increased funding but less than the increase the legislature sent to the governor.

    Parent
    Are There Teenage Boys (none / 0) (#165)
    by daring grace on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 12:32:38 PM EST
    who disclose on My Space that they WANT children?

    THAT would seem strange to me.

    I wouldnt have said not ot marriage (5.00 / 2) (#183)
    by domerdem on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 01:10:42 PM EST
    with an angry mother who hunts moose.  Going to a barbeque with her and Huckabee would be a gas, moose and squirrel.

    Parent
    Bullwinkle Reference (none / 0) (#189)
    by daring grace on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 01:40:03 PM EST
    gets a 5 from me!

    Parent
    Dont think much of Huckabee's politics (none / 0) (#193)
    by domerdem on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 02:26:50 PM EST
    but found this amusing:

    "Mika, I bet you never did this," Huckabee went on, addressing Mika Brzezinski. "When I was in college, we used to take a popcorn popper, because that was the only thing they would let us use in the dorm, and we would fry squirrels in a popcorn popper in the dorm room."

    Parent

    Remember That (none / 0) (#194)
    by daring grace on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 03:10:41 PM EST
    Hope there were lots of squirrel cuisine loving folks on that floor. Imagine the aroma wafting down the hall...well, maybe it smelled just like fried chicken.

    Parent
    I could be wrong ... (none / 0) (#172)
    by Robot Porter on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 12:46:05 PM EST
    but I also believe it's the default setting.

    Parent
    I Just Hope (none / 0) (#173)
    by daring grace on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 12:49:14 PM EST
    these kids get to step out of the spotlight soonest.

    Parent
    Is anyone surprised (none / 0) (#170)
    by TomStewart on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 12:41:10 PM EST
    at the nastiness of the repubs last night? Every four years the dems come out and say the repubs are nice, honorable people, just misguided. Then, like clockwork, the repubs come out with vicious personal attacks, ignoring the issues that they don't want the rest of America considering, but using code words ('community organizer' will soon be code for organizing militant black people, just watch), distortions and outright lies to slime the dems. Every time, without exception.

    Well, they did it last night, again. And what do we come back with? Biden finger wagging? Obama sighing? I think the dems are being caught flatfooted yet again. We need to come back hard against this sort of nonsense, and call it for what it is. McCain tonight will attack, will distort, will lie and we need to be ready to strongly refute everything he says, and everything he might say.

    Oh, and can we stop releasing copies of the speeches before we speak? There is plenty of time for that afterword.

    Stagecraft... (none / 0) (#171)
    by Oje on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 12:45:56 PM EST
    I just read BTD's post, and I disagree to a point (perhaps more strongly after I think about it more). Before Hillary became a fighter, she "had a moment", in New Hampshire, widely ridiculed by Obama's team, when she accepted what her candidacy was about for millions of working-class people and women (she shed a tear). From that point forward, Hillary became a fighter.

    Did Sarah Palin "have a moment" last night? Certainly, she has none of the depth and history that Hillary Clinton has as a champion of feminism and women's rights. So, the Republican "image-makers" did not simply work over Governor Palin into a new product to roll out in September. They stagecrafted her introduction, with a different emotion. Many people thought that the McCain and the Republicans were ridiculous for their attacks on the media, but they really were just organizing the stage for Palin's speech. Her speech would not have been as "effective" without the context that the Republicans created with their accusations of sexism against both the Democrats and the media.

    That is why, to me, when I look at the meaning-making theater of last night's speeches (including Guiliani's absurd championing of women), it says to me that the Republicans are still making a strong play for disaffected women voters from the Democratic primaries(though many on the left have abandoned this analysis, and thankfully so since many of our bloggers can't seem to conceptualize or discuss women without mentioning vaginas). But, Republicans specialize in symbolic shows and narratives (despite what Noonan might think), so they stagecrafted Sarah Palin's moment. From this point forward, I suspect, look for her to make a play as a fighter for the kinds of people and women she identifies and speaks about in her speeches. (And saying there are "no issues" in her speech may be as ineffective as it proved to be Obama and Clinton during the primaries, after the Democratic party solidified into its two camps after Super Tuesday).  

    What got me last night was how thoroughly worked over the CNN team was and how Campbell Brown and Gloria Borger quickly started to discuss the sexism of the Democratic leadership (given Harry Reid's email). During the Democratic primary, I can't recall a moment when either of these newscasters discussed as heatedly whether the Obama campaign directed sexism at Clinton - and certainly something Obama said (for example, "claws" or "periodically") carried a comparable offense to "shrill". All of the Republicans' stagecraft prepared the scene created by Governor Palin's speech and the pundits' responses. It was much more than just the "image-making" of a single VP candidate.

    Jeralyn. Huff Post has a headline up (none / 0) (#198)
    by oculus on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 05:34:54 PM EST
    that town of Wasilla is the "meth capital" of Alaska!