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TrooperGate Report Will Be Released 3 Weeks Early

By Jeralyn, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:38:21 PM EST
Tags: John McCain, Sarah Palin (all tags)
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And it's unlikely to be favorable to Gov. Sarah Palin.

ABC News has exclusively learned that Alaska Senator Hollis French will announce today that he is moving up the release date of his investigation into whether Gov. Sarah Palin abused her office to get the Alaska public safety commissioner, Walt Monegan, fired. The results of the investigation were originally scheduled for release Oct. 31 but will now come almost three weeks earlier, according to sources.

More...

The announcement is set for 9 a.m. AKDT time.
The Alaska state senator running an investigation of Gov. Palin had accused the McCain campaign of using stall tactics to prevent him from releasing his final report by Oct. 31, four days before the November election.

"It's likely to be damaging to the Governor's administration," said Senator Hollis French, a Democrat, appointed the project manager for a bi-partisan State Senate Legislative Counsel Committee investigation.

The radical right won't care if Palin's image as a high-minded reformer and competent executive is tarnished. I think the rest of America will care, just as it will care about other hypocritical actions of Gov. Palin that may be revealed as the campaign progresses.

The selection of Gov. Sarah Palin shows John McCain's failure to properly vet her and his bad judgment. He went for a Hail Mary pass to save his fledgling campaign and he put the interests of the radical right ahead of the interests of our country. That's not what a hero does. His hero days are long behind him. He sold us out.

Let the chips fall where they may. McCain, regardless of his years of service, does not deserve to be our President.

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    TrooperGate Report Will Be Released 3 Weeks Early | 142 comments (142 topical)

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    Those words are carefully chosen (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by demchick on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:46:50 PM EST
    damaging to her administration is not damaging to her personally.

    that's why I chose the words (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:09:45 PM EST
    image as a "competetent executive" -- if she can't control those in her administration from performing unethical acts, what should we expect as VP?

    Parent
    she can make a case that she's (none / 0) (#75)
    by Salo on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:36:45 PM EST
    trying to cut thru the red tape by pressuring the party involved.

    Parent
    Um (none / 0) (#8)
    by bluegal on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:51:39 PM EST
    She is going around talking about being a reform candidate.  Since she is unknown and people are trying to figure her out, under normal circumstances she would probably not be harmed by this but in this case, she will be in trouble.

    Parent
    Troopergate?? (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by delacarpa on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:51:27 PM EST
    And in all honestly, this is a big deal, when almost all the women who will look at this thinking they would do the same thing had he used the taser gun on their nephew. I am sorry I don't see this as much other than it couldgive Palin more of a boost.

    I disagree (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by tres on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:58:04 PM EST
    this issue isn't about what kind of person her ex brother in law is; it is about using her power to go after him and then firing the fellow who wouldn't do as she wished. The ex brother in law is a side show that can, if allowed, distract people from seeing an abuse of power.

    Parent
    Bingo! (none / 0) (#35)
    by bluegal on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:08:21 PM EST
    People are trying to figure her out in a very short time. If the media starts covering this as "Palin Abused Power" that will take all of her shine off because it will go back to the previous assumptions people had of her before she made her speech.  

    Very risky choice by Johnny Mac.

    Parent

    She's a monsterous diversion (none / 0) (#41)
    by Salo on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:11:32 PM EST
    as BTD so artfully pointed out. McCain is the main issue here.

    Parent
    You are right (none / 0) (#45)
    by bluegal on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:12:58 PM EST
    But this all goes back to McCain's judgment.

    If she is found to have been in the wrong, yes, the press will focus on her but it will all come back to the vetting process and McCain's judgment.  

    This is why people keep talking about Eagleton but not so much for Palin's problems but because of the judgment of McCain.

    Parent

    McCain will say (none / 0) (#56)
    by Salo on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:18:39 PM EST
    he was right about the war, he was right about freemarkets and right about spending.

    And Obama or his campaign think the answer  will be to go after her?

    Just have Biden, Napolitano and Sebelius go after her.  

    everyone else needs to spank McCain.

    Parent

    It will be worth the price of admission (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by oculus on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:36:44 PM EST
    to see if Sibelius can lay a glove on Palin.  I doubt it.

    Parent
    Biden? (none / 0) (#86)
    by rdandrea on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:53:05 PM EST
    Biden shouldn't be going after Palin.  That would be taking his eye off the ball.  The task at hand is defeating McCain, and Biden is the attack dog.

    Palin is just a red herring.

    Hmm.  How many metaphors was that?

    Parent

    her brother in law isn't the issue (3.00 / 3) (#47)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:13:13 PM EST
    Nor is the election only about women who identify with her. It's about alleged abuse of power while Governor by her or those whom she appointed within her administration.

    The troopers' acts happened long ago and he remains on the force. The allegations against her occurred during her term as Governor.

    It's also a soap opera that may not appeal to many men.

    Do not redirect the conversation to yet another bashing of her brotherinlaw.

    Parent

    But That's Missing the Politics, Isn't It? (5.00 / 3) (#72)
    by BDB on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:36:37 PM EST
    As a political matter it may or may not matter whether she violated the law, what's going to matter is whether people think what she did was wrong.  And you can bet that her defense is going to be that her brother-in-law deserved to be fired and how police departments are too forgiving of domestic abusers (something I would think you'd agree with generally Jeralyn even if the facts of this case end up not supporting Palin's claim about her b-in-law).  

    We don't know how this is going to play.  If it gets spun as Palin defending her sister and trying to protect other women, then I don't think it's going to matter politically whether or not she violated some civil service law.  And we have no idea what evidence Palin may have about her brother-in-law or the full extent of what he did or didn't do to her sister.  If she can show he was a monster (and I have no idea if he was or wasn't), then most people aren't going to care about her trying to get him fired because most people would do the same.  If she can't and it all gets bogged down in that media muddle, then the abuse of power angle might take hold and hurt her.

    But I don't think you can separate out the defense she's going to use about the brother-in-law.  This isn't a court where evidence is deemed inadmissible, it's politics where people have a way of deciding for themselves what's important and what's not.

    I think you can argue that the brother-in-law angle shouldn't matter to people as they weigh the import of this, but I think you're underestimating Sarah Palin and the GOP if you think you can simply write it out of the equation.  It's going to be part of the equation and if the Obama camp and his supporters aren't prepared to deal with it, then you risk elevating Palin instead of diminishing her with all of this.

    Parent

    eh (none / 0) (#114)
    by connecticut yankee on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 03:30:26 PM EST
    There are always politics and they arent all favorable to her here.

    If you look at both sides of the story youll see that there is no domestic abuse here.  This guy mayr or may not have, in anger, said he'd kill her father during a divorce but threats (especially one) arent illegal if you dont act in some way. There are more conditions to it.  Its a violation of department policy and he was disciplined.

    What you do see is that the Palin family went after this guy on just about every aspect of his life, real or imaginary..  They say he shot a wolf, that was hunting with his wife and she couldnt shoot so he took the shot and killed an elk on her permit. The humanity! They say he used steroids, which they couldnt prove. The taser incident was poor judgement but he claims the boy wanted to try it out on low power. Nothing came of it.

    They are clearing spinning anything and everything they can on him and taking it to his superiors.  The judge himself said he was shocked they wanted to get him fired when then he couldnt pay child support.

    I cant form a solid opinion but it seems a bit off.  If they really felt they had him on violence they would stick with that.  Its just not in the record.

    Parent

    It's Too Early To Tell (none / 0) (#119)
    by BDB on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 03:40:03 PM EST
    whether the politics will be favorable or not because we don't know what the report will find, we don't know what her response will be, and most importantly we don't know how any of it will play in the media.

    What we do know so far is that the Democrat leading the investigation has no problems making partisan statements, which will undermine his credibility even if he's right.  That's not a good start, IMO.

    But my biggest worry is that Obama and his supporters will try to blow this up into the crime of the century and it ends up being the polticial equivalent of a moving violation.  That will only help Palin, which presumably is not the goal (although lately I admit that I have begun to wonder about that as so many Obama supporters seem intent on making this election all about her instead of all about McCain or Obama).

    Parent

    Tempest in a teapot IMO (5.00 / 3) (#10)
    by andgarden on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:52:35 PM EST


    The Danger (5.00 / 3) (#50)
    by BDB on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:14:34 PM EST
    is that the media, supported by Obama supporters, will blow this thing up into some huge deal and then the report will come out and even if it finds wrong-doing it won't be on a level that justified the media.  IOW, that it will be the Starr Report where the media went crazy but most Americans read it and went this is it?

    Parent
    well (none / 0) (#93)
    by connecticut yankee on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:33:37 PM EST
    The very existence of an investigation is always politically dangerous.  It's not exactly a resume enhancer and shoes can drop from many quarters.

    Parent
    Just mention that (5.00 / 1) (#135)
    by Jeannie on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 04:30:45 PM EST
    it bagan with the tazering of a child, Palin's nephew,  and everyone will be on Palin's side. It is stupid to try to get mileage out of this. It is a loser.

    Parent
    wow (none / 0) (#141)
    by connecticut yankee on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:06:02 PM EST
    Well, its a good thing you investigated it so carefully.

    Parent
    It doesn't matter. (5.00 / 0) (#152)
    by Jeannie on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 07:25:26 PM EST
    That is the thing that will stick out, plus the wife beating - no matter what other evidence is there - people will remember those things and she will not be blamed. It is framing, of course.

    Parent
    Framing, Yes (none / 0) (#159)
    by daring grace on Sat Sep 06, 2008 at 10:37:07 AM EST
    But that is also an element of different peoples' perspective when they hear this story.

    Many women hearing this would have the reaction you describe: tasering a child, wife beating...good for her for going after him.

    Many men might have that point of view too or some might look at the circumstances and see a man who is being accused of these things without a ruling by a court etc. as to their validity and see a guy who is being muscled in a bad divorce by a vindictive ex-wife and her politically muscled family.

    Myself, I see a situation where it's not clear whether the brother in law is guilty of the things that have been alleged, because with the exception, apparently, of the moose he shot there are conflicting accounts and no final objective ruling on what's true (Is there? I admit I haven't really researched this. Have been getting my info from this blog mostly.)

    It bothers me when any public official tries to use their clout to sidestep or short circuit the process for the benefit of their friends or family. In any case, in the larger political realm, unless more egregious evidence comes out against Governor Palin I don't see this registering very strongly with voters.

    Parent

    It's not exactly Watergate (5.00 / 4) (#17)
    by myiq2xu on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:58:28 PM EST
    even if she did everything she has been accused of.

    It's not even Whitewater.

    It's maybe the equivilent of the WH Travel Office firings.  Maybe.

    But keep hoping, maybe there will be a pony in there somewhere.

    Looks like a case of no real "there" (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by PssttCmere08 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:05:48 PM EST
    there, but will give some people hope that they can bring Palin down.  It would seem like an exercise in futility imo.

    Parent
    I suspect every effort used on her (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by Salo on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:09:47 PM EST
    is a moment lost on damaging McCain himself. If Obama makes this about Quayle...er ...Palin he loses the election. Teh VP is a slightly unserious position and makes little difference in the long run.

    McCain won't say a word about any allegations and is prolly chuckling to himself about teh bait he's put out there for Obama to gnaw on.

    Parent

    I'm a bit more sympathetic (none / 0) (#83)
    by BrianJ on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:48:30 PM EST
    With Senator French;  whatever happens in national politics, Alaska needs to work on cleaning out the Augean stables and that means full disclosure.

    But if I were advising the Obama campaign, I'd say just ignore this and focus on your debate prep.

    Parent

    Assuming the worst, this only helps Palin (5.00 / 3) (#19)
    by Exeter on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:01:31 PM EST
    Let's assume Walt Monegan's side of the story is 100% accurate: That he was fired because Palin repeatedly communicated to him that one of his troopers had repeatedly beat his sister and was now threatening to kill Palin's father and b/c he did not act on these complaints, he was fired. If that is true that this guy beat Palin's sister and was threatening to kill her father and I had this guy's boss wasn't doing anything, most people would think firing him was a reasonable thing to do.

    The GOP can be directly defeated (5.00 / 3) (#54)
    by Salo on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:16:44 PM EST
    on starting a an illegal and unneeded war in Iraq. Real warcrimes and such.

    Parent
    "Danger Will Robinson!" (5.00 / 0) (#73)
    by EL seattle on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:36:38 PM EST
    ...Indeed.

    Parent
    I don't care whether danger robinsons or not! (none / 0) (#84)
    by BrianJ on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:49:30 PM EST


    Parent
    I disagree (4.00 / 2) (#23)
    by bluegal on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:03:21 PM EST
    This isn't about the family drama it is about using her power to get someone fired who was following the rules.

    She is claiming that she is a reformer.  This is not reform this is the Bush administration. Yes, some people will be sympathetic but given that she is an unknown claiming that she is a reformer and trying to tell us why she would be okay a heartbeat away from the presidency this isn't going to help her.

    Parent

    It's about whatever the media decides it's about. (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:07:08 PM EST
    This isn't about the family drama it is about using her power to get someone fired
    Only time will tell.

    Parent
    You are partially right (none / 0) (#48)
    by bluegal on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:13:54 PM EST
    And the way the McCain campaign is treating the media with contempt is not going to help his cause at all.

    Parent
    I'd fire him... (5.00 / 4) (#55)
    by kredwyn on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:16:55 PM EST
    for not doing his job. The cop broke the law...according to the State Police investigation.

    He should have been fired, arrested, and had charges laid against him for criminal misconduct.

    He wasn't. He was ultimately suspended for 5 days.

    Someone didn't do his job when he didn't go through the process...especially with Family Services.

    Assuming it was Monegan, he should've been fired outright...not offered a new position to turn down before getting fired.

    Parent

    Saw the tooper interviewed on CNN today (5.00 / 2) (#109)
    by JavaCityPal on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 03:02:42 PM EST
    He's 36 years old, has been married and divorced 4 times, has a long list of violations that would make any citizen take pause over this guy being a state trooper. Perhaps the executive decision to remove the department head who thought it was fine to keep a guy like this armed with authority over the general public was the decision of a strong executive.

    It doesn't matter to me how it comes out. I'm not voting for her, and even if it was the right thing for the Governor to do, I'm still not voting for her.

    Any news on Obama to post? He's out on the campaign trail, what's he saying?


    Parent

    In The Real World (none / 0) (#66)
    by daring grace on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:33:03 PM EST
    Is that what really happens where you live?

    Where I live in upstate New York, law enforcement officers are RARELY fired. There are all kinds of preliminary punishments beforehand ranging from reprimands to suspensions of various lengths with and without pay. And we're talking about offenses that match the ones that Palin's brother in law has been ACCUSED of (has there been actual proof beyond the accusations of family members except for the moose shooting?).

    I haven't seen any evidence that the police culture in Alaska differs from this. In fact, I often read news stories from around the country that suggest there is a generally pervasive reluctance on the part of law enforcement everywhere to summarily fire officers without intermediate lesser punishments first.

    Parent

    Real World? (5.00 / 2) (#78)
    by kredwyn on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:38:55 PM EST
    No...he blue line comes into dramatic effect...and phrases like "judgment failure" cover many sins.

    However, considering the fact that the guy who got fired was a political appointment and didn't do his job, were I the governor, I'd have no issue with firing him.

    But then again...that's me...and I am fully aware that what I'd do and what's actually done are often two dramatically different things.

    Parent

    So, if in the real world of Alaska (5.00 / 3) (#87)
    by tree on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:54:36 PM EST
    police culture, tasering your stepson is not a firing offense, then it simply burnishes Palin's creds as a reformer willing to take on the police establishment. (Regardless of whether her reformer creds are accurate or not.)

     I don't see this story as doing any lasting damage to Palin. Its a loser for Dems to pursue this. IF her brother-in-law was a sanitation worker or a clerical worker instead of a state trooper, and IF the commissioner she fired could only be fired for cause and not at the governor's whim, then there MIGHT be a case to pursue. But he is a state trooper and she was within her rights as governor to fire the commissioner for any reason or no reason at all. There is no story here that does anything good for Democrats to pursue.

      I thought that the new approach was that it was most important to point out out Palin's hard right wing views. This story doesn't do that. It could very well end up making her a more sympathetic figure to women and men. Drop it and focus on issues.  

    Parent

    She could fire Monegan for ANY reason (5.00 / 4) (#61)
    by Exeter on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:24:31 PM EST
    Or no reason at all -- he is a political appointee that serves at the pleasure of the governor.  Yes, it is ethically inappropriate to fire someone b/c they are following the rules.  But, maybe she fired him because she didn't like the way he was handling the situation, in addition to other issues that must have come up.

    Parent
    Really? (none / 0) (#146)
    by flyerhawk on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:16:40 PM EST
    So political appointees can be fired any reason whatsoever?  

    So when Gonzales fired all those lawyers he did nothing wrong?

    Parent

    The 8 U.S. Attorneys Who Were Fired (5.00 / 0) (#160)
    by daring grace on Sat Sep 06, 2008 at 10:49:52 AM EST
    WERE all George W. Bush appointees.

    They were 'his own folks'.

    Parent

    In the sense we are talking about, no (5.00 / 0) (#161)
    by Exeter on Sat Sep 06, 2008 at 11:11:54 AM EST
    The issue with the U.S. attorneys was more about WHY they were fired: b/c they refused when Bushco illegally asked them to file phony criminal charges against Dems for political reasons.  

    Parent
    complicated issue (5.00 / 3) (#92)
    by AlSmith on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:32:08 PM EST

    I have to confess that I dont understand this issue enough to say that there is a smoking gun at this point. I guess I would wait for the report to judge.

    The problem here is a Democrat is releasing this report as an 'October surprise'. Comes across very partisan on the face of it.  And I think the VP debate is Oct 2nd, so I dont think Troopergate is going to get much traction.

    Unless its bombshell or has lots salacious details about a divorce, then all bets are off.

    Parent

    Problem One (2.00 / 1) (#62)
    by limama1956 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:25:27 PM EST
    The issue was already investigated, most of the charges against this trooper was "unfounded". He got a 5 day suspension for what was proved.

    I have also read, via the Alaskan bloggers, that Sarah Palin's sister told the judge that her husband DID NOT beat her and never had, and that she had been influenced by her family to say so. This is why the restraining order the Judge initially issued was dismissed.

    Parent

    4 of the complaints (5.00 / 3) (#70)
    by kredwyn on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:35:19 PM EST
    were discovered to be valid...and the determination was that he broke the law in at least 2 of those allegations (shooting a moose w/o the permit was one of them).
    In 2006, state investigators found Wooten guilty of "a significant pattern of judgment failures," including using a Taser on his 10-year-old stepson and drinking beer while operating a state trooper vehicle. Wooten was suspended for 10 days as "a last chance to take corrective action."

    Tasering your kid with a low dose of power is a "failure in judgment."

    Parent

    well (none / 0) (#95)
    by connecticut yankee on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:40:11 PM EST
    As the top cop said to Palin's aide, "you guys need to back off" so when he does make a mistake wroth termination, it doesnt open us up to an influence lawsuit.

    Also, in custody disputes, many accusations get made. Palins people were contacting the top cop to inform him that this guy illegally hunted an elk on his wife's permit.. They were clearly reaching for all kinds of stuff. It was a campaign.

    The pressure was also a lapse of judgement, as Palin herself has said. THough she takes no responsibility for it.  Time will tell.

    Parent

    Yep... (5.00 / 0) (#103)
    by kredwyn on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:50:06 PM EST
    we'll see.

    The bit about the death threat thing hit pretty close to home for me...

    Parent

    ya (none / 0) (#108)
    by connecticut yankee on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 03:01:02 PM EST
    True.

    But you only get one side of the story here. Palin's administration has a big microphone and this guy doesnt.

    I've known people who have been falsely accused in custody disputes.  They are very nasty things.

    What Palin's aide made clear was that he wanted this resolved before the custory hearing. That tells me something.

    Parent

    I also know people (5.00 / 0) (#110)
    by kredwyn on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 03:08:02 PM EST
    who've been accused of nasty things in custody battles.

    And I've been the one threatened with violence by an abusive bf...and wasn't believed when I said something.

    It's tough to know what's right. But the investigation found that he'd broken the law in a couple instances. And in one instance, there prolly needed to be some sort of Family Services investigation...

    Parent

    right. (none / 0) (#123)
    by connecticut yankee on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 03:52:28 PM EST
    And if you notice the right wing trolls on here are elevating his crimes by the minute.

    They have him "pistol whipping" his step son with a tazer when really the kid asked to try it on low power.  Not very good judgement but hardly a brutal pistol whipping.

    Given the lengths they have gone to do get this guy, if he had pistol whipped a child he would be in prison.  You really have to have a low impression of cops to think they would cover that up.

    Parent

    Like your diminishing the incidents (5.00 / 1) (#130)
    by Patrick on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 04:05:11 PM EST
    at every turn.   There is no "power setting" for tasers, except on and off.   I've seen that or similar comments here several times in this thread as if it's some justification.   The irony is that given Talkleft's past posts on taser use, if this didn't involve a prominent conservative, he'd get his own thread about what a bad cop he was and they'd be calling for the officer's head.    

    Parent
    Good for your cousin...... I wish I had more (none / 0) (#128)
    by vml68 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 04:04:01 PM EST
    faith in the justice system. My brother found out his wife was having an affair so she went to the police and said that he pushed her down a flight of stairs in their home. The police officer noted she did not have a single scratch, bump or bruise on her (a 250lb woman falling down 20 steep stairs and landing on a stone floor!) but they still booked him for domestic violence and he had to be bailed out of the county jail. He was cleared in the civil trial and is still waiting for the criminal trial.
    I do not understand how someone can be arrested on no evidence. It was frightening.

    Parent
    Sounds silly (none / 0) (#106)
    by cib on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:53:33 PM EST
    Also sounds like nobody alleged anything serious against this guy except for the threats.

    Minor stuff. Question is, did Palin try to get him fired? He showed some poor judgement but doesn't seem to be the monster I thought he might be.

    Parent

    He wasn't found guilty (none / 0) (#131)
    by cib on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 04:05:41 PM EST
    Of pistol-whipping a ten year old, at least not according to the CNN article.

    Do you know something  I don't?

    Parent

    This is a case of domestic violence and (5.00 / 3) (#22)
    by carmel on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:02:56 PM EST
    I am shocked that anyone would think a state trooper should keep his job after using a taser on his 10 year old stepson and threatening to kill his father-in-law. This is a real and very dangerous problem for women and their children in this country, and often the courts do not take it seriously enough. There is a case in Maryland where the mother begged the judge to keep her ex-husband from visitation because he was threatening to kill the children. The judge derided the woman, a physician, from the bench. The father drowned all three children. I respect Sarah Palin for standing up for her sister. This is a no brainer - trooper uses weapon on 10 year old - he should be fired. More of the "old boys network" covering their buddies a--.

    Where's your proof? (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by bluegal on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:04:21 PM EST
    This may very well be about domestic violence but in the real world and the legal world you can't just fire people without cause if their are laws that protect them. People get sued over this all the time.

    You are missing the point.

    Parent

    so they get sued. (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by Salo on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:06:42 PM EST
    so the perpetrator of these acts  gets a settlement, and they get fired or reinstated have their good name dragged thru the mud. So effing what?

    This is the same level as the travelgate thing.  Small beans.

    you mean a director or president can't fire people?


    Parent

    You are missing the point (5.00 / 5) (#43)
    by davnee on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:12:43 PM EST
    This scandal has the potential to backfire on the Dems playing it up.  Even if Palin abused her power by basing this firing on personal reasons, if the personal reason was that the guy she fired was going too easy on a domestic abuser that had beaten and threatened to kill members of Palin's family, not to mention tasered a kid, then that is going to make her pretty darn sympathetic.  Do you really want people's gut reactions to the story be "well good for her"?

    Parent
    Domestic violence (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by tres on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:06:41 PM EST
    is a real life issue; but it isn't the issue at stake her. It is being used to muddy the water.

    Parent
    Don't know what else (5.00 / 4) (#27)
    by frankly0 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:05:25 PM EST
    might be used in evidence against Palin in TrooperGate, but there was an article in the WaPo a day or two ago, producing the emails sent by Palin to the Commissioner she fired, and they were light years away from being really damaging.

    I would pretty much expect that this Commissioner, if he was receiving all this pressure from Palin, and was supposed to be the target of her wrath, might be in a better position than anyone else to have damaging documentation. And what he produced was close to zippo.

    We'll see how it plays out of course, but the first "smoking gun" seemed only to squirt water.

    Here is (5.00 / 1) (#107)
    by frankly0 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:57:25 PM EST
    the link to the article from the WaPo.

    Note that the only relevant emails Monegan could produce is two in which Palin alludes to the case of the trooper as it applies to potential upcoming legislation.

    How do you get from that connection to the idea that she was pressuring Monegan to fire the trooper, or some such thing? Answer: you don't.

    And remember, this is the guy whom you'd expect would be the one, if anybody, to have the goods on Palin's pressure tactics.

    Some goods.

    Parent

    There is supposedly audio tape and phone calls (5.00 / 6) (#39)
    by carmel on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:10:01 PM EST
    of the brother in law saying he was going to get his gun and kill his father in law. And it is a fact that the trooper tasered his stepson. Where is the outrage that a police officer would abuse his power in that way? As I said before, this just reinforces the fact that many women and their children are viewed as second class citizens and do not receive the respect and protection they deserve from abusive marriages and relationships. It would be more shocking if Sarah Palin stood by and did nothing - like the Alaska old boys network did.

    What if inverse was that (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by Exeter on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:18:52 PM EST
    She knew that a family member was violent and mentally unstable cop and did NOTHING?!?

    Parent
    heh (none / 0) (#101)
    by connecticut yankee on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:48:42 PM EST
    Was there a restraining order if he was so dangerous?  If he's so dangerous why are they complaining about an illegal elk kill? Dont they have better talking points?

    There is the additional issue of improper use of records. The police union has filed an ethics complaint that the Palin administration was accessing his personel records and disclosing them.

    I guess if the GOP wants to take the tack that law enforcement isnt worthy of protection...um, ok.

    Parent

    Will the report be out in time for the VP debate? (5.00 / 0) (#58)
    by Manuel on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:21:26 PM EST
    Independently of the timing of the report, do you think Biden will bring the issue up in the debate?

    The bridge to nowhere is a much better issue to hit Palin on since it can be shown that she is lying about her reformer credentials.  You don't want to muddy the waters with too many charges.  It seems to neutral observers as if you are casting about for something that will stick.

    Um (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by JAB on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:23:08 PM EST
    Monegan himself has said that Palin never asked her to fire the trooper, but that he felt pressure from some inside her administration.

    Missing from this post is also the fact that he was offered another job within the administration and turned it down.

    And - she is asking the state board to review the case, which in essence is making an ethics complaint against herself.

    Link

    From the article (none / 0) (#82)
    by JAB on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:45:57 PM EST
    Gov. Sarah Palin wants a state board to review the circumstances surrounding the dismissal of Public Safety Commissioner Walt Monegan -- taking the unusual step of making an ethics complaint against herself.

    Her lawyer sent an "ethics disclosure" Monday night to Attorney General Talis Colberg. The governor asked that it go to the three-person Personnel Board as a complaint. While ethics complaints are usually confidential, Palin wants the matter open.

    The lawyer, Thomas Van Flein, also asked the state Legislature to drop its own investigation into the Monegan matter. He says the Personnel Board has jurisdiction over ethics.

    A senator running the investigation immediately refused.

    ...

    Among key claims in Palin's complaint:

    • Special Agent Bob Cockrell of the governor's security detail told Todd Palin to let Monegan know about Wooten's threats against Chuck Heath, who is Palin's father and was Wooten's father-in-law.

    • Monegan never told the governor or Todd Palin that Wooten had been disciplined over complaints brought by the family that included tasering his stepson, illegally shooting a moose and telling others that Heath would "eat a f***ing lead bullet" if he helped his daughter get an attorney for the divorce. Wooten ultimately was suspended for five days by troopers but the family says they only learned that when the conflict spilled into public after Monegan's firing. In her complaint, Palin calls the suspension "a slap on the wrist."

    • Recently, Wooten's supervisor intervened when he wouldn't return the children after a visit, the complaint says. Wooten warned his ex-wife he was going to get her and Palin, the complaint says. "There is evidence suggesting that Wooten was following the governor," it says.

    Palin is facing another ethics complaint, filed by a former state employee and political activist alleging her office used improper influence to award a state job.

    Van Flein is a private lawyer with expertise in employment law hired by the Department of Law because of a potential conflict of interest by Attorney General Talis Colberg, who had contacted Monegan about Wooten. Van Flein is representing the governor's office though some Palin staff have their own lawyers.

    Van Flein donated to Palin's campaign for governor in 2006, but he also donated to Democrats.



    Parent
    I am sure that (none / 0) (#104)
    by domerdem on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:51:14 PM EST
    Bill would have liked to choose who investigated the Whitewater matter.  The subject of investigations generally do not get to pick their investigator.

    Parent
    Democratic Senator moves up the release date (5.00 / 9) (#64)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:28:31 PM EST
    of report to damage republican candidate.

    What a ridiculous thing to do.

    This is terrible. Just idiotic.

    provincial Dems... (5.00 / 0) (#68)
    by Salo on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:34:17 PM EST
    ...in little states like Alaska and Delaware picked Obama over Hillary and put him over the top.  The unsophisticated cluelessness will continue unabated. We will just have to bite our collective lip and hope it works out alright.

    Parent
    You are (5.00 / 0) (#69)
    by demchick on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:34:53 PM EST
    absolutely right.

    It's a shame most of us dems can't see that.

    Parent

    Deja vu (5.00 / 5) (#76)
    by Polkan on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:38:21 PM EST
    And, forgive me, on the blog dedicated to the politics of crime:

    "It's likely to be damaging to the Governor's administration," said Senator Hollis French, a Democrat, appointed the project manager for a bi-partisan State Senate Legislative Counsel Committee investigation.

    It doesn't take a lawyer to figure how easily this will be interpreted as politically motivated and in contradiction of what Democrats supposedly stand for in this election. Abuse of power, anyone?

    Parent

    Just incredible (5.00 / 4) (#79)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:39:26 PM EST


    Parent
    The Democratic Version of Ken Starr (5.00 / 4) (#94)
    by BDB on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:33:40 PM EST
    it looks like, not in the kind of investigation he's conducting, but in that he doesn't mind appearing partisan.  This totally kills any credibility of the investigation.  Nicely done, Democrats!

    Idiots, we are a party of idiots.  I cannot believe we've had two Democratic Presidents in forty years.  

    Parent

    Yeah, (none / 0) (#96)
    by frankly0 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:43:25 PM EST
    that was my first reaction to this latest report that a Democrat was going to speed up the release of this report: it looks way too much like a hatchet job.

    And it may really mean nothing that it's "bipartisan" -- Palin seems to have antagonized both Democrats and the Republican establishment in the legislature. Whether or not the agency to which she wants to move the investigation is more or less "objective" is anybody's guess -- I'm sure she regards that agency as more favorable to her, but the presumption that the legislature is going to be fair hardly seems like a well grounded claim, most especially when it seems to be so eager to speed things up to embarrass her, and when this crazy Democratic State Senator makes his own prejudgment so blatant.

    It sounds like it's still the Wild Wild West up there. They obviously have had a huge corruption problem in Alaska, and you've got to believe that it is in general a political culture that doesn't play by the book. My guess is that Palin herself has deviated from the book herself for this reason, and it could indeed come back to bite her.

    Parent

    heh (none / 0) (#126)
    by connecticut yankee on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 03:59:38 PM EST
    They do have a huge corruption problem. Hopefully Palin can be stopped before it spreads.

    I mean, the lies about the bridge to nowhere alone are stunning.

    Parent

    Exactly! (5.00 / 4) (#81)
    by ks on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:42:58 PM EST
    And it's an utterly transparent move that the Repubs can spin in their favor and play the personality politics game which they are very good at.

    Also, let's assume for the sake of argument that both sides stories are true.  Does anybody REALLY think that most people are going to be more concerned about the "abuse of power" aspect of a situation that is based on Palin's attempt to pressure someone to fire a trooper who beat her sister, tasered their child and threatend to kill her father?  Seriously?  

    This continued overreaction to Palin by trying to gin up stories and ridiculous runmors is going to continue to play right into the Repubs hands.

    Parent

    I think the real issue (none / 0) (#102)
    by domerdem on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:49:07 PM EST
    is the Watergate coverup issue.  May have been ok to get an alleged bad actor off the force even is she was involved in making it happen, but if she then lied about the involvement of her and her staff, that will be very problematic.

    Parent
    Props (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by Pianobuff on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:43:59 PM EST
    I have to give you credit... you have a pretty good track record for seeing the "meta".

    Parent
    It's a bipartisan comission (none / 0) (#67)
    by bluegal on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:34:08 PM EST
    of 9 people. Sarah Palin is the one that told them to investigate her and they did.  She's on record saying so.

    Yes, a dem is leading the investigation but it isn't a panel of all dems and the fact that Sarah told them to investigate her which they did, isn't going to gain her a lot of sympathy.

    Parent

    IIRC (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by demchick on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:36:36 PM EST
    the repubs on that commission, and indeed repubs in Alaska in general, have reason to want to get back at her in many ways.

    This has become political and it should not have.

    Parent

    Go with that (5.00 / 2) (#77)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:38:52 PM EST
    This is a joke.

    I can not believe how stupid Democrats can be. (Not you, just Dems generally.)

    Parent

    "VAST LEFT-WING CONSPIRACY" (none / 0) (#80)
    by Polkan on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:40:35 PM EST
    Todd Palin, on 60 Minutes

    :-)

    Parent

    Yep (none / 0) (#85)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:50:40 PM EST


    Parent
    And even if there is something to this (none / 0) (#88)
    by Paladin on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:03:37 PM EST
    it sets up another Checkers Speech.

    Parent
    The problem for Palin (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by frankly0 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:47:21 PM EST
    is that even a "bipartisan" commission from the legislature could be heavily biased against her.

    She has certainly done much to antagonize the Republican establishment in Alaska. So she's going to have Democrats as automatic enemies, and a good many Republicans as enemies she's "earned".

    Parent

    Look quick legal action (none / 0) (#99)
    by domerdem on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:47:14 PM EST
    by her attorneys to get a TRO or preliminary injunction to delay the release until after the election, which will make her look worse than the Dems in moving up the release date.  

    Parent
    French is already getting (5.00 / 1) (#124)
    by tree on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 03:56:24 PM EST
    blowback for his statement.

    Coghill says French should quit 'Troopergate'

    "These statements cause me to think that the report is already written even though the investigation is only just begun and the most important witnesses have not even been interviewed," Coghill's letter says. "The investigation appears to be lacking in fairness, neutrality and due process."

    Coghill wrote the letter to Sen. Kim Elton, D-Juneau, who chairs the bipartisan legislative panel that hired independent investigator Steve Branchflower and designated French as "project director" for the investigation. Coghill is a member of the panel, known as the Legislative Council.

    Branchflower is examining whether Palin dismissed Monegan for failure to fire a state trooper involved in a messy divorce with Palin's sister.

    A call to French for comment was not immediately returned.

    Coghill said French, in an interview carried on ABCNews.com, said the report would be an "October surprise" for the Palin administration.

    "Sen. French's public statements regarding 'October surprises,' his indication that the report's conclusion has already been written, and his comments implying that he has undisclosed information that would make the governor unfit to be the nominee for vice president of the United States all are direct contrast with the goals of professionalism, lack of bias, and an apolitical investigation," Coghill's letter says.

    Coghill said he no longer has confidence in French managing Branchflower and the legislative investigation.

    OT, but funny- Coghill, chairman of the Rules Committee, is listed as "R-North Pole".

    Palin is Cheney 2.0 (3.66 / 3) (#11)
    by magster on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:53:07 PM EST
    Prioritization of political power, ruthlessness, dishonesty and obstruction are all Cheney hallmarks, and Palin has been a quick student.

    Hahahaha (none / 0) (#116)
    by lizpolaris on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 03:34:37 PM EST
    hahaha hahaha hahaha...

    Parent
    I had a feeling about this (3.00 / 0) (#1)
    by bluegal on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:44:22 PM EST
    The problem for Palin is she is running on this reform schtick.  If this investigation was being done by all democrats, the case could easily be made that it was partisan but her own PARTY is leading the investigation and with a trail of emails this is not going to help.

    This is why people are vetted and I have to believe that for all the good press she is getting this week, she will crash and burn in the near future.

    The AK Senate is controlled by Dems (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by Exeter on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:48:39 PM EST


    Parent
    Not to mention (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by demchick on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:50:31 PM EST
    that Hollis French saying things about his opinion on Sarah's readiness for VP in print is not going to help his case. It will look like her is out to get her, whether he is or not.

    Case in point:

    Anchorage Democratic state Sen. Hollis French said it's a huge mistake by McCain and "reflects very, very badly on his judgment." French said Palin's experience running the state for less than two years hasn't prepared her for this.


    Parent

    I wonder if Hollis French is any relation to (5.00 / 0) (#12)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:53:31 PM EST
    Holling Vincoeur.

    Oh, nevermind.

    Parent

    lol...Northern Exposure...The Brick!! (none / 0) (#32)
    by PssttCmere08 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:06:57 PM EST


    Parent
    Word has it that Palin is Maurice's (none / 0) (#46)
    by Exeter on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:13:05 PM EST
    secret child!

    Parent
    Pardon me then (none / 0) (#6)
    by bluegal on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:50:38 PM EST
    But if I recall, it is a bipartisan investigation.

    Meanwhile, Palin is trying to stonewall and get the investigation turned over to a panel of hand picked appointees. Not a good sign.

    Parent

    I am saying Hollis French hates her (5.00 / 0) (#13)
    by demchick on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:53:45 PM EST
    and has made no secret of that fact. If we want to be fair then the investigation, at this point, should be run by a third party.

    Parent
    the legislature is a third party (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:07:22 PM EST
    she's the one trying to move it to an executive agency within her own branch of government.

    Parent
    It's controlled by a coalition (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by Exeter on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:15:57 PM EST
    of nine Dems and six republicans -- similar the way the U.S. Senate is controlled by 49 dems and two independents.

    Parent
    She didn't handpick any of them. (5.00 / 0) (#16)
    by cib on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:58:11 PM EST
    She re-appointed ONE of the three. All 3 were appointed by the previous Governor, the one she unseated. I think she really is afraid the legislatures report will be a hatchet job. There are quite a few Republicans in Alaska who owe her back, big-time.

    Parent
    You appoint them, (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by scribe on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:06:56 PM EST
    you've hand-picked them.  Especially in a state with a population of well under a million.

    She knew who she was getting and why.

    Parent

    Doesn't Matter (none / 0) (#21)
    by pluege on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:02:41 PM EST
    all of Palin's foibles serve the republican purpose of providing a platform from which they can scream out that they're being victimized by the liberal media.

    Parent
    they can scream (none / 0) (#36)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:08:26 PM EST
    all they want and they may not lose their base but they won't gain independents and dems thinking of crossing over. And their base, by itself, hopefully won't be big enough.

    Parent
    It won't (none / 0) (#40)
    by bluegal on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:11:28 PM EST
    Yes, people are taking a second look at her but she has nothing to offer but right wing ideas that the American people are tired of.

    My gut is usually right and I have a very good feeling that this pick is going  to put the last nail in McCain's doomed candidacy coffin.

    I was always terrified that McCain would pick KBH.

    Parent

    she's a bit hardcore... (5.00 / 0) (#51)
    by Salo on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:15:03 PM EST
    ...executives get to fire people all the time in most companies and institutions I've experienced.

    McCain needs to be beaten intellectually about the war. That was teh whole point about picking Obama--he was always against teh damned war. Obama is sadly and quite pathetically shrinking from that task.

    Parent

    This should be interesting. (none / 0) (#4)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:49:25 PM EST


    Per the Anchorage paper (none / 0) (#9)
    by scribe on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:52:19 PM EST
    "The Governor should stop stonewalling. ... ."
    In July, when legislators started talking about conducting an investigation, Palin denied any wrongdoing and said she welcomed an investigation.

    "Hold me accountable," she said.

    The Legislature took her up on that offer. But this week, she basically told the Legislature, "Never mind."

    * * *

    It's time for subpoenas

    We've seen how well that works out....

    I've read the attorney of (none / 0) (#18)
    by oculus on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:00:36 PM EST
    another person who the committee wanted to depose is challing the jurisdiction of the legislative branch to depose anyone on what is essentially a personnel board matter.  I assume Ms. Palin was not represented by counsel when she made her earlier statement.  

    Parent
    It will probably not happen (none / 0) (#14)
    by rdandrea on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:55:43 PM EST
    CNN reported two days ago that Palin's attorney is trying to move the investigation out of the legislature and into the State Personnel Board.  Not sure what the law is in Alaska, whether it really belongs there.  Maybe an attorney can comment.

    Stonewalling (none / 0) (#20)
    by bluegal on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:01:33 PM EST
    She's trying to move it to a panel of folks that she personally hand selected.  Do you think those folks are going to be fair?

    Think about it, if she McCain loses (which I think he will), Palin goes back to Alaska and she would probably seek revenge on them.

    I don't think this is good news for her at all and I doubt they will be successful in their stonewalling attempt.

    This is why picking her was so damn risky and in my opinion a losing strategy. McCain could have picked KBH and although she is pro-choice she is known and would help him cement his "maverick" credentials without all the risk while definitely peeling off disillusioned HRC moderate pro-choice women.

    Parent

    I think the article said (5.00 / 0) (#24)
    by rdandrea on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:03:52 PM EST
    that all three State Personnel Board members were Murkowski appointees.

    Parent
    No, they are hers (3.00 / 0) (#26)
    by bluegal on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:05:23 PM EST
    I will try to find the article that stated that but I think it was in the Washington Post.

    She got to pick the panel when she was sworn in which makes sense with any new administration.

    Parent

    regardless of who appointed them (none / 0) (#52)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:15:16 PM EST
    they now serve within the executive branch. The Governor is the executive branch.

    They are trying to move out of the legislative branch and into her branch.

    Parent

    Yes (5.00 / 0) (#60)
    by JAB on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:24:17 PM EST
    And their reviews are usually secret, but she has asked that this review be open.

    So, where's the beef?

    Parent

    Distraction from political issues (none / 0) (#89)
    by Andreas on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:22:59 PM EST
    Currently the firing of the Alaska public safety commissioner seems to be used by the Democrats to distract from the serious political issues raised by the selection of Sarah Palin by the Republican Party.

    For their part, the Democrats and Obama are--like the media--clearly intimidated by the Republican attacks and unable to mount a reply. They are terrified that a determined attack on the Republican Party and the Bush administration could, despite their best intentions, encourage among working people both popular anger against the capitalist system and unrealistic expectations of change. Such an outcome would cut across the interests of the Democrats' real constituencies, Wall Street and corporate America.

    These fears render the Democrats incapable of speaking with either sincerity or anger--the latter reserved exclusively for those to their left. Their cowardice and duplicity are what provide a political opening to the fraudulent right-wing populist demagogy of the likes of Palin and the Republicans.

    The Sarah Palin speech:
    Democrats and media cower in face of Republicans' right-wing demagogy
    By Bill Van Auken, 5 September 2008

    wow (none / 0) (#91)
    by connecticut yankee on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:28:28 PM EST
    Palins first bipartisan act,  getting the D's and R's to agree her ethics are poor.

    well (none / 0) (#120)
    by connecticut yankee on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 03:41:39 PM EST
    He says the boy wanted to try it out on low-power. Where is your source for a "whipping"? Assault is a serious crime that they could finish him on with one phone call.

    Instead, they went after this guy on dozens of nonsense issues.  Claiming he killed a wolf, he used steroids (didnt prove it), he shot an elk on his wifes permit when she couldnt do it... on and on.

    If you have a solid problem with the man, why the bs? Why constantly take these lesser issues to his supervisor?

    Taser settings (5.00 / 0) (#125)
    by Patrick on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 03:57:59 PM EST
    There is no "Power Setting" on a taser.  You get the full juice everytime.   This isn't a star trek phaser, and I know people who have been fired for doing exactly the same thing, and deservedly so.  

    Parent
    ha (none / 0) (#127)
    by connecticut yankee on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 04:02:27 PM EST
    I dont know anything about Tazers, just what Ive read in news reports.  But the comedy is the republicans on here lying that it was a "pistol whipping"...  and all the rest.   If you have someone on pistol whippng, you dont need to bring up their elk hunting habits.

    By tommorrow he'll have orchestrated the Rwandan massacre.

    Parent

    also (none / 0) (#132)
    by connecticut yankee on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 04:08:15 PM EST
    A quick check shows that tazers sometimes have an aditional shock capability that functions by holding it on someone to cause pain.  You can pass it over someone quickly or hold it on them thus implying an ability to moderate the force.

    Unless you are a Taser manufacturer and have some actual evidence, I'm not sure how you can say which element was used in which manner.  

    Again, by tommorrow he'll have tied to boy to the train tracks.


    Parent

    There (5.00 / 0) (#133)
    by Patrick on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 04:26:20 PM EST
    are two ways to apply the taser, by firing darts into the subject or by direct contact with the exposed leads at the end of it.  Both of these applications are supplied with the full power of the weapon.  If properly applied the darts can act as a neuromuscular interruptor, while direct contact with the leads (Also called a drive stun) is simple a pain compliance application.  Both applications are done at full power, so it doesn't matter which "Element was used in which manner."  Other people can fill you in on my qualifications to make this statement, suffice it to say it is accurate.  There is no power setting.  

    Parent
    The only (5.00 / 0) (#134)
    by Patrick on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 04:27:53 PM EST
    thing the operator can modify is the length of time of the application.  That's it.  

    Parent
    but (none / 0) (#136)
    by connecticut yankee on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 04:41:25 PM EST
    But the effect is quite different.  Localized pain versus incapacitation from what I just read.  "Drive stun" mode is used to cause a very localized pain that doesnt knock people over or affect the central nervous system.

    I'm guessing that's the context here but I'm sure more information will come out.

    Parent

    In some (5.00 / 0) (#137)
    by Patrick on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 04:52:50 PM EST
    cases, as I said, with a proper distance between two fired probes, the weapon can cause temporary incapacitation,  This won't happen with a drive stun, I agree.   The point was and still remains that there is no power setting to reduce or change the amount of volts delivered by the weapon.  I disagree strongly that the different method of use are equivalent to a power setting, and think the record should be straight on that.  

    Parent
    conyank (5.00 / 0) (#138)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 04:55:09 PM EST
    There is no low-power setting on a taser. Whether it's shot at you or pressed against you it F's you up.

    Also, I would not suggest debating the specifics of a taser or its usage with Patrick. You can do your own search on his comments over the years to find out his creds on the subject. He didn't get them from a website.

    Parent

    heh (none / 0) (#139)
    by connecticut yankee on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:00:12 PM EST
    He just agreed that different results can be generated. There may not be a star trek power button but different uses are a reality.

    I'm not making any claims about a man I dont know, just noting that you only have one side of the story. One that is obviously heavily padded to include a wide range of odd subjects.

    But destroy him if you must.

    Parent

    Yup, (5.00 / 0) (#140)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:05:07 PM EST
    and both uses F you up.

    Parent
    I agree (5.00 / 0) (#144)
    by Patrick on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:13:46 PM EST
    that different results can be generated, just like I agree that not everyone dies from a gunshot wound.  Yes, there are two distinct methods of applying the same voltage to a target.  Yes, both have different anticipated results.  That is not the same as agreeing there's a power setting selector.    

    People will take what they will from the story, but at least where there are cold hard facts, let's be accurate about them.  

    Parent

    Wikipedia disagrees (none / 0) (#143)
    by flyerhawk on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:13:41 PM EST
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tazer

    Parent
    I can't find (5.00 / 0) (#145)
    by Patrick on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:16:20 PM EST
    the part that talks about the power setting, can you cut and paste the relevant part you are referring to?

    Parent
    2 types of use (none / 0) (#147)
    by flyerhawk on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:28:36 PM EST
    One called drive stun.

    I have never even seen a tazer so I can't speak to the use of it.  

    But there appears to be at least 2 ways to use it.

    Not that it really matters.  It's not really pertinent to the investigation.

    Parent

    Yes (5.00 / 0) (#148)
    by Patrick on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:38:35 PM EST
    I believe I covered the two different methods of use, but both methods produce the same amount of voltage and amperage.  As I said, the comments about the taser being set on "low-power" and incorrect and seem like an attempt to diminish what this person did.  Another point, using a taser on someone in the manner described would be tantamount to an assault and battery.  

    Parent
    And yet (none / 0) (#149)
    by flyerhawk on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:43:03 PM EST
    no charges were made.

    So perhaps we don't really know what happened?  

    Or should we assume that the complaint was completely valid and the police are simply covering up and Palin is a fighter for justice?  

    Parent

    Like I said (5.00 / 0) (#150)
    by Patrick on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:59:34 PM EST
    People will take what they will from the incident depending on their bias.  I suspect, based on the documentation I read related to this incident that it did happen.  I also believe this was one of the "founded" aspect of the internal affairs investigation that he received a suspension for.  

    Regardless, this is the unauthorized use of a weapon, and in my past experiences in California is more than enough to justify termination in and of itself.  I cannot speak of Alaska employment protections, so what California does is really immaterial, I add it only for perspective.  

    Parent

    As an aside (none / 0) (#151)
    by Patrick on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 06:03:38 PM EST
    Each taser has a discharge database that is subject to review.  If the date and time of the incident is known the investigator need only download the database to a computer.  The database will provide information related to the past 1,500 discharges, including date, time and duration.   Should have been pretty simple to investigate and verfiy if a discharge ocurred at the time and date the victim is claiming.  

    Parent
    I think this clears up (5.00 / 0) (#155)
    by Patrick on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 09:11:44 PM EST
    whether the complaint was valid or not.  

    Parent
    From da link: (none / 0) (#156)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 10:50:36 PM EST
    In 2006, state investigators found Wooten guilty of "a significant pattern of judgment failures," including using a Taser on his 10-year-old stepson and drinking beer while operating a state trooper vehicle. Wooten was suspended for 10 days as "a last chance to take corrective action."

    Speaking Thursday to CNN's Drew Griffin and Kathleen Johnston, Wooten gave his account of the Taser incident but denied ever drinking while driving.

    He said that he was a new Taser instructor, and his stepson was asking him about the equipment. "I didn't shoot him with live, you know, actual live cartridge," Wooten said.

    Instead, he said, he hooked his stepson up to a training aid "with little clips. And, you know, the Taser was activated for less than a second, which would be less than what you would get if you touched an electric fence. ... It was as safe as I could possibly make it."

    He said his stepson was on the living room floor surrounded by pillows, that he "was bragging about it," and that the family laughed about it.

    Asked whether it was a dumb decision, Wooten told CNN, "absolutely."

    The 2006 report called the incident an example of "extremely poor judgment," and noted that he has been trained in "the risks associated with use of the weapon on a child."

    Wooten insists he has been "under a microscope, and everything I did was heavily scrutinized at the time."

    The father of three, who was married four times, told CNN, "I'm trying to move on and be the best dad I can to my children. Be the best trooper that I can be. You know, I love my job. I love this state."

    He added that McCain's choice of Palin as his running mate was "absolutely wonderful for the state of Alaska."



    Parent
    How exactly (none / 0) (#142)
    by flyerhawk on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 05:11:52 PM EST
    do you pistol whip someone with a tazer?

    The Palin Probe (none / 0) (#157)
    by Detbriscoe on Sat Sep 06, 2008 at 03:31:53 AM EST
    I read yesterday that Governor Palin has indicated her willingness to discuss the charges against her as long as the questions to her are asked on the phone, and she is not under oath when she replies.

    Here we go again.  The Republican tripartite approach whenever they are caught redhanded:

    (1) Put political pressure on, and intimidate, the investigators until the investigation can't proceed, or ...

    (2) If (1) doesn't work, publicize your willingness to frankly discuss the charges aganst you, but only if you're not under oath, and no record is made of the proceedings.  (Translation: I am perfectly willing to discuss the allegations against me as long as I can lie with impunity); or ...

    (3) If all else fails, there is still plenty of time for a presidential pardon.

    And, notwithstanding all of the bizarre personal issues surrounding this nominee, they all PALIN to insignificance when compared to the reactionary, rabidly right wing views of this religious extremist.

    This only one who seems to have it all figured out it out is the guy in the following link:

    http://www.moveon.org/r?r=24753&id=13709-3776384-_s5U.Ox&t=5

    The Palin Probe (none / 0) (#158)
    by Detbriscoe on Sat Sep 06, 2008 at 03:33:26 AM EST
    I read yesterday that Governor Palin has indicated her willingness to discuss the charges against her as long as the questions to her are asked on the phone, and she is not under oath when she replies.

    Here we go again.  The Republican tripartite approach whenever they are caught redhanded:

    (1) Put political pressure on, and intimidate, the investigators until the investigation can't proceed, or ...

    (2) If (1) doesn't work, publicize your willingness to frankly discuss the charges aganst you, but only if you're not under oath, and no record is made of the proceedings.  (Translation: I am perfectly willing to discuss the allegations against me as long as I can lie with impunity); or ...

    (3) If all else fails, there is still plenty of time for a presidential pardon.

    And, notwithstanding all of the bizarre personal issues surrounding this nominee, they all PALIN to insignificance when compared to the reactionary, rabidly right wing views of this religious extremist.

    The only one who seems to have it all figured out it out is the guy in the following link:

    http://www.moveon.org/r?r=24753&id=13709-3776384-_s5U.Ox&t=5

    TrooperGate Report Will Be Released 3 Weeks Early | 142 comments (142 topical)

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