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Sunday Open Thread

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Blog Related
Posted on Sun Sep 07, 2008 at 10:54:33 AM EST
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Today is the first NFL Sunday of the year. In college football last night, the Florida Gators held off a gutsy Miami Hurricane team 26-3 (it was 9-3 into the fourth quarter.) I watched the game with the sound turned down because I can not stand Brent Musberger. I hope that is the last Gator game on ESPN. What happened to Ron Franklin and Mike Gottfried? Are you ready for some football?

And TChris, how does Bret Favre look in J-E-T-S JETS! JETS! JETS! green?

Finally, believe it or not, the baseball season is still ongoing. Not that anybody cares (bitter Yankee fan here.) This is an Open Thread.

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    Sunday Open Thread | 46 comments (46 topical)

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    Early this morning (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by Polkan on Sun Sep 07, 2008 at 10:59:46 AM EST
    the news segment on TV described an upcoming segment thusly:

    "The gloves come off. Obama accuses his opponent of stealing his change message".

    I just couldn't help laughing. But I wonder if this signifies what we've been talking about for the last few days - will McCain succeed in redefining the choice in November or not.

    E-A-G-L-E-S EAGLES! (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by lilburro on Sun Sep 07, 2008 at 11:27:57 AM EST


    Lincoln Finacial Field? (none / 0) (#20)
    by nycstray on Sun Sep 07, 2008 at 11:57:30 AM EST


    Parent
    yup yup. 1-0! (none / 0) (#44)
    by lilburro on Sun Sep 07, 2008 at 03:05:33 PM EST


    Parent
    Oh no. Obama on ABC This Week (5.00 / 3) (#7)
    by shoephone on Sun Sep 07, 2008 at 11:33:05 AM EST
    giving an absolutely abysmal performance in his interview with Stephanopolous. Stammering, halting, backtracking, on the defensive, allowing Steph to interrupt him constantly. He is not at all in control of this interview. He sounds terribly weak and I can see the headlines now: "Obama Backtracks Again on Surge", Obama Vows to Fight Own Party", etc. etc. etc. If this is what we can expect from him throughout the rest of the campaign then we are surely going to lose.

    Now I am really depressed.

    And Axelrod (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by Polkan on Sun Sep 07, 2008 at 11:36:16 AM EST
    got totally hammered on Fox re: Obama also "going against his own party" with non-proliferation and ethics reform.

    Parent
    Abortion response weak too (none / 0) (#13)
    by haner on Sun Sep 07, 2008 at 11:40:26 AM EST
    His response to the abortion question also seemed pretty weak.  Something about "when souls enter" etc. Souls = theological, human rights = legal.  The original question in Saddleback was when do babies get human rights, not when they get souls.

    He's had 3 weeks to prepare and redeem himself for this question.

    Parent

    Geeze, didn't Biden give him the answer? (none / 0) (#16)
    by nycstray on Sun Sep 07, 2008 at 11:50:16 AM EST
    Biden answered it just fine on MTP.

    Isn't this the same thing that happened with the "why do you want to be president?" question?

    Parent

    I wanted him to say (none / 0) (#42)
    by ruffian on Sun Sep 07, 2008 at 03:00:35 PM EST
    "I believe on most issues my party is right.  McCain has to go against his party more becaise they are wrong. "

    It should not be that difficult.

    Parent

    Oh Gawd... (5.00 / 3) (#8)
    by oldpro on Sun Sep 07, 2008 at 11:34:06 AM EST
    Obama just got tangled up in his own words while talking to George S on This Week and mistakenly used the words "my Muslim faith" when he meant to say my Christian faith...interrupted and corrected by George.

    Get ready for the You Tubers to excerpt this for a homemade ad to circle the globe...

    Seriously. (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by shoephone on Sun Sep 07, 2008 at 11:38:51 AM EST
    I didn't even touch on the faith stuff in my comment. You nailed it, OldPro.

    I am really having a bad feeling about this election...

    Parent

    he must be tired or something (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by bjorn on Sun Sep 07, 2008 at 11:39:21 AM EST
    what an unfortunate mistake!

    Parent
    I think it's the (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by shoephone on Sun Sep 07, 2008 at 11:46:50 AM EST
    "or something". He was not prepared at all. Does he not realize that every interview he gives will be referenced in every succeeding interview (eg. O' Reilly)? The media is now in love with Palin and he is going to be asked about her -- the other guy's #2 -- from here on out. Where is Biden? The one to one comparisons between Obama and Palin are deadly. And Obama's slams against McCain came out more like soft hand slaps.

    Parent
    Not tired...two things: (5.00 / 2) (#15)
    by oldpro on Sun Sep 07, 2008 at 11:47:16 AM EST
    anxious and competetive....

    When interrupted, he almost always interrupts back, trying to take control before he knows what he's going to say...then he has to wander around until he finds something to say.  

    When he knows what he thinks, he knows what to say.  But sometimes, he hasn't thought through the political thing to say and he searches for it in real time.

    It's awkward.  And dangerous.

    Parent

    I think you hit it right on the head... (none / 0) (#17)
    by skuld1 on Sun Sep 07, 2008 at 11:52:09 AM EST


    Parent
    Honestly, he really is a pretty mediocre (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by tigercourse on Sun Sep 07, 2008 at 11:39:24 AM EST
    speaker when not in front of an audience of thousands. I'm not too optimistic about the debates.

    Parent
    Oh geez ... (none / 0) (#28)
    by Robot Porter on Sun Sep 07, 2008 at 12:11:11 PM EST
    why didn't he just go on THIS WEEK wearing a "Go Sarah!" T-shirt.

    Parent
    He Really Did... (none / 0) (#30)
    by JimWash08 on Sun Sep 07, 2008 at 12:12:04 PM EST
    sound like a bumbling novice. He seems to tire pretty quickly when he's out on the road, doesn't he? I recall he made several mistakes before his vacations in the Bahamas and Hawaii too.

    But I don't think this can be blamed on tiredness. I watched the interview and from the get-go, he seemed a little hopped-up on something.

    Parent

    And McCain's now saying he'll have more than (5.00 / 3) (#19)
    by Angel on Sun Sep 07, 2008 at 11:55:24 AM EST
    one Democrat in his cabinet, and he'll ask the "best off" to serve for $1 per year.  Hitting on a lot of populist themes and trying once more the distance himself from Bush.  And Obama stammering with George Steph...  Obama does not do well when it isn't scripted.

    Why hasn't he improved in that area? He's been (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by jawbone on Sun Sep 07, 2008 at 01:19:15 PM EST
    running for prez for a long time now--pols with more experience have learned how to answer questions more clearly and directly--some without actually answering them!

    Bill Clinton would seem to think for a few seconds before replying, then give these well-structured, clear answers. He could explain, as Krugman recently praised him for, complex economic matters in a way that did not talk down to the public, that treated them as intelligent beings, and that made sense to the listener.

    It is not an easy thing to do: Condensing a complex question or answer to something meaningful can be very, very difficult. It's something Obama has not yet mastered.

    And his word fogs drive me crazy!

    (Is this an acceptable critique? I hope so, bcz improving that area would make him seem less, well, lacking experience.)

    But other

    Parent

    Which channel was mcCain on? (none / 0) (#23)
    by Polkan on Sun Sep 07, 2008 at 12:02:56 PM EST


    Parent
    CBS "Face The Nation" (none / 0) (#24)
    by JimWash08 on Sun Sep 07, 2008 at 12:07:58 PM EST
    The clips should be up online by 3PM eastern.

    Parent
    Sitting down to watch Biden on MTP now (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by shoephone on Sun Sep 07, 2008 at 12:08:48 PM EST
    He's saying: She had a number of good lines in her acceptance speech but at some point she is going to have to sit down with people like you (Brokaw) and answer questions. Most voters are going to make decisions based on either Obama or McCain.
    No one know yet what her policies are.

    Brokaw acting like a buffoon though. "They're calling her by her first name -- Sarah -- does that harm your campaign?" Biden hammering away at the importance of her positions and not her gender. What does she know? What does she think? What is she going to do?

    But he is mistakenly referencing her gender while saying gender doesn't matter.

    Brokaw stupidly asking Biden about Oprah not wanting Palin on her show. Biden not taking the bait.

    Brokaw asking about Hillary's role (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by shoephone on Sun Sep 07, 2008 at 12:10:26 PM EST
    Biden excited about both Hillary and Bill campaigning. "Hillary is a major force in the Democratic Party."

    Fluff interview so far (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by shoephone on Sun Sep 07, 2008 at 12:12:03 PM EST
    Brokaw not asking even one question of substance. No issues discused yet and we are eleven minutes in.

    BTD (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by TChris on Sun Sep 07, 2008 at 12:33:53 PM EST
    I will always be a Favre fan (unless he plays for the Bears).

    Heh - I would never be a Favre fan (none / 0) (#43)
    by ruffian on Sun Sep 07, 2008 at 03:04:44 PM EST
    Unless he played for the Bears.

    Go Bears!

    Parent

    Fannie and Freddie taken over (none / 0) (#1)
    by andgarden on Sun Sep 07, 2008 at 10:58:31 AM EST
    and apparently the Mets play the Phillies today (I should care about that, but don't).

    Doubleheader (none / 0) (#4)
    by nycstray on Sun Sep 07, 2008 at 11:10:29 AM EST
    2 and 8. Yanks at 4 and the Jets a 1. My day is set!

    Jets, Yanks, Mets.

    Parent

    Another bailout! (none / 0) (#21)
    by dead dancer on Sun Sep 07, 2008 at 11:59:20 AM EST
    Darn, more tax dollars out the door to cover some failing business. Might have to vote for Bob Barr (don't slam me, only said might :).

    At the least; he and others, should be given the opportunity do debate with the two ruling parties candidates:

    September 26, 2008: Presidential debate with domestic policy focus, University of Mississippi, Oxford, MS
    October 2, 2008: Vice Presidential debate, Washington University, St. Louis, MO
    October 7, 2008: Presidential debate in a town hall format, Belmont University, Nashville, TN
    October 15, 2008:Presidential debate with foreign policy focus, Hofstra University, Hempstead, NY

    Parent

    Source of electoral optimism? (none / 0) (#3)
    by robrecht on Sun Sep 07, 2008 at 11:05:27 AM EST
    Hi, BTD.

    Glad you didn't wait a whole week to come back.

    I'm hoping that you will soon post an analysis of the electoral math and the reasons for your optimism.  You were saying for a while that Obama was a shoe-in, then I think you became more pessimistic, but I saw the other day where you said Obama would crush McCain.  Not doubting you (I've learned a little bit) but I would appreciate a little more detail and hope.

    Your new source of possible hope for Florida?  Is it in reaction to Palin's fundamentalist appeal or is it just McCain's lackluster speech and performance in general?

    I'm not sure how accurate or up to date RCP is, especially since Palin and the Repug convention but there it seems like the closest key states this year are 'currently' Ohio, Virginia, Colorado, and New Hampshire.  Is that accurate?  You don't think Palin and the fundies can help McCain in Minnesota, Michigan, and Pennsylvania?

    Palin (none / 0) (#6)
    by Manuel on Sun Sep 07, 2008 at 11:30:33 AM EST
    Vial RCP, here is a nice summary from The Guardian.

    One interesting approach to take even now is to look at Palin's race for governor.  There are good summaries here and here.

    In that election Palin was the change agent.  She had some interesting things to say about experience.  This is a change election and McCain is trying to steal Obama's change message.  This is why focusing on Palin's experience is the wrong thing to do.  Instead we should be revisiting Palin's message about Knowles.

    One of Palin's last ads simply contrasted her fresh new face with Knowles as a tired old face, repeating 10 times "had his chance" as reasons why he represented "old-time politics."

    This time the message needs to be applied to McCain/Bush.

    Here is Biden on his being (none / 0) (#18)
    by oculus on Sun Sep 07, 2008 at 11:53:44 AM EST
    prepared to debate Palin.  It struck me how many times he referenced Palin's gender.  Seems like a bad idea.

    Biden

    lol!~ (none / 0) (#22)
    by nycstray on Sun Sep 07, 2008 at 12:01:28 PM EST
    He also mentioned his wife, Jill, who has a Ph.D.

    Is this his way of saying he's cool with women's equality?

    Parent

    Biden seems a tad uncomfortable (none / 0) (#33)
    by oculus on Sun Sep 07, 2008 at 12:21:01 PM EST
    about that Ph.D.  He keeps mentioning it.  Reminds me of Obama constantly talking about his "funny name."  

    Parent
    I didn't see that part of the interview (none / 0) (#37)
    by nycstray on Sun Sep 07, 2008 at 12:31:19 PM EST
    so I don't know how it was said. Wouldn't it be more I'm not scared of smart women, where Obama is don't be scared of my name?

    It is rather amusing watching some of these guys try and be PC with women, lol!~ McCain seemed to have gotten it right this past week. Don't say too much about her gender, just beam while she's up there doing her thing and say positive things about her record.

    Parent

    well, (none / 0) (#26)
    by NJDem on Sun Sep 07, 2008 at 12:10:00 PM EST
    Gallup is out.  I assumed it would be tied, but JMc has taken the lead by 3 (48/45), which I thought was a possibility, but if so, by Monday/Tuesday.

    Tomorrow should/has to be a big day for the Obama camp--they must come out with something to change the narrative.  I guess we'll find out soon enough...    

     

    I assume (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by JAB on Sun Sep 07, 2008 at 12:14:11 PM EST
    (like Ras) that those polls don't reflect people's feelings AFTER McCain's speech.  Ras today has the race tied. (including leaners), but they note this was only after Palin's speech.

    Tomorrow will be an interesting day to watch, especially as it the 11th day after Obama's speech, when according to most pollsters, is as long as any bounce tends to last.  Seems his is already gone, so watching the movement this week should be interesting.  I see the numbers flipping back and forth from now until election day.

    Parent

    Gallup Poll includes two days of polling .. (none / 0) (#35)
    by Robot Porter on Sun Sep 07, 2008 at 12:24:03 PM EST
    after McCain's speech.  And these are days from which McCain's lead comes.

    Parent
    This is to be expected ... (none / 0) (#34)
    by Robot Porter on Sun Sep 07, 2008 at 12:21:08 PM EST
    and McCain will likely be up higher by Tuesday.

    Obama should just stick to his message on the economy, healthcare and jobs; and let the McCain campaign deal with the added pressure and intensity.

    The given 'em enough rope strategy.

    Any attempt to change the narrative will look panicky.

    Parent

    Uh oh (none / 0) (#32)
    by shoephone on Sun Sep 07, 2008 at 12:18:35 PM EST
    Now Brokaw playing clip on "surge" from O'Reilly interview. Yikes. Brokaw editorializing now that the surge has put victory in sight. Biden response: the Sunni still not cooperating with Shia. Process of integration far from over. Surge is irrelevant. Now Bush is talking about withdrawing troops -- Obama's plan. The only guy in America out of step is McCain. Surge helped make it possible but not "the reason". Bottom line: what will McCain do? No timeline on troop w/drawal. No ideas on how to deal with Iran or Syria.

    Biden challenging Brokaw's characterization of his plan for "partition". How do we leave a stable Iraq behind w/out a political settlement? They're finally doing what I suggested and localizing it.

    What do you mean by "localizing it"? (none / 0) (#41)
    by jawbone on Sun Sep 07, 2008 at 01:22:35 PM EST
    I may have missed earlier comments of yours. Thnx for the talk show summaries and thnx in advance for addressing my question (if you find it before the comments are filled up).

    Parent
    Mark Shields just lowered the bar for preparation (none / 0) (#36)
    by jawbone on Sun Sep 07, 2008 at 12:25:58 PM EST
    for being president: He said the best preparation for being president is running for president. (This was in defense of Obama's experience.) On NJN public TV talk show, On the Record, hosted by Michael Aron--Nina Totenberg, Shields, Charles Krauthammer, and one black reporter who strongly supports Obama (can't find info on NJN website or elsewhere yet).

    Earlier, the group was discussing the number of people who are plucked from obscurity who go on to become president or leaders. Began with saying Huckabee has been replaced as putative leader of the evangelical conservative wing of the Repub Party by Sarah Palin, due to McCain naming her his running mate. Then listed Truman, who was named FDR's last VP and became president; Poppy, which made no sense since he'd been angling for political power since he entered politics and government; and, finally, on to Obama and his famous '04 speech making him the Best Orator of the 21st Centure.

    Oh, well.

    Nina Totenberg asserted that Obama has been completely vetted by the press since his speech, and told Krauthammer that Ayers doesn't count; another panel member stated it's time for reporters to find out whether Palin ever hunted moose without a permit. Trivial beats substance every time, right?

    The Cubs, the Cubs! (none / 0) (#39)
    by caseyOR on Sun Sep 07, 2008 at 01:18:42 PM EST
    It's September and they haven't collapsed. Winning the World Series every 100 years may be all we can hope for, but we can still hope.

    I'll take it (none / 0) (#45)
    by ruffian on Sun Sep 07, 2008 at 03:09:05 PM EST
    Even if there is not another one for another 100 years.

    I want it this year for all the old-timers like my 80 yr old Dad who have never seen them win the Series.  Really, he has not got forever!!!

    Parent

    BTD don't know if you know (none / 0) (#46)
    by Slado on Sun Sep 07, 2008 at 05:23:49 PM EST
    but SEC just signed huge deal with ESPN.

    Every SEC football game will be on ESPN other then the best game given to CBS in their traditional 3:30pm EST slot.

    Expect more meetings between Mr. Mustberger and the Gators.

    As for the game Gators need to find a wa to deal with the blitz.  it lost the Michigan, Auburn and Georgia games last year.

    Dores are 2-0!

    Sunday Open Thread | 46 comments (46 topical)

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