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Friday Morning Open Thread

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Blog Related
Posted on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 09:40:31 AM EST
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    Friday Morning Open Thread | 121 comments (121 topical)

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    Today's frightening example (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by andgarden on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 10:07:52 AM EST
    of the power of the Obama personality cult, here. Yikes.

    93 (none / 0) (#17)
    by jedimom on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 10:35:00 AM EST
    I guess they didnt live thru 1993!! if Big Dawg had done IHC first we would have it, but he did deficit reduction and then had no political capital left...which is what BTD just talked about the other day..

    they are floating numbers like 2 trillion for the banks TARP Deux or "Duh" as I call it..plus the 1 trillion stimulus

    I agree with Krugman in that if serious UHC will be difficult after these two things are done..but hey they are expanding medicare to 5 and over and medicaid to 4x poverty level which is 84,000 so they ARE doing hc in a way....lol...


    Parent

    oops (none / 0) (#18)
    by jedimom on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 10:35:45 AM EST
    stumblebum I am today
    /UHC
    /55 and over

    Parent
    I love the assertion that (none / 0) (#21)
    by ThatOneVoter on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 10:54:06 AM EST
    Krugman has never displayed any political acumen, from the comments.

    Parent
    Kerry making sense: (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by NJDem on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 10:09:44 AM EST
    "Kerry: Ignore Republicans if they'll vote no anyway"

    Glad to see someone at least talking about this (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by ruffian on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 10:55:01 AM EST
    The Massachusetts Democrat and 2004 presidential candidate suggested tossing some of the tax provisions in the stimulus that the GOP requested. "Those aren't job creators immediately, and even in the longer term they're not necessarily. We've seen that policy for the last eight years," he said.


    Parent
    Local morning TeeVee talk show (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 12:32:20 PM EST
    spent some time showing us how just what a great guy Obama is - joking with his kids, working in the oval office w/o a suit coat (gasp!), riding a wave in Hawaii, etc.

    Like Po says in his dream sequence in Kung Fu Panda "No charge for my awesomeness."

    Note to self.... (none / 0) (#60)
    by kdog on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 12:48:49 PM EST
    Sun god forbid I ever get famous...take media people out for drinks and buy many rounds.

    Parent
    Question for bakers (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by caseyOR on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 02:22:51 PM EST
    I am delving into the world of home baking. I've heard that one can avoid those annoying little bugs in the flour by putting your flour in the freezer. Is this true? And how long do you keep it in the freezer? 2 days? forever?

    Is there a better answer to the little bug problem?

    I find (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by CST on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 02:24:18 PM EST
    Glass Jars work pretty well at keeping bugs out.

    I bet the freezer does too though.

    Parent

    I was told that once you put the flour (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by vml68 on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 02:44:11 PM EST
    in the freezer you have to keep it there forever. I don't know why and have never done it.

    Parent
    I keep mine in a Rubbermaid (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by Anne on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 02:52:42 PM EST
    container in the refrigerator and have never had a problem with weevils (the little bugs).  Cold flour comes in handy when making pie dough - something about cold flour, cold shortening and ice water makes for a much flakier crust.

    It may be that the caution to keep it in the fridge or freezer may have something to do with the moisture content - and the possibility that condensation forming at room temperature and then keeping the flour at room temperature could promote mold growth (?) - just a wild guess!

    Parent

    Very familiar with the flour bugs (5.00 / 1) (#113)
    by Inspector Gadget on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 07:55:05 PM EST
    When we lived in the Middle East many years ago, those bugs were common in all dry foods from rice to cake mix.  We did use the freezer....to kill them, because it was impossible to buy those foods bug free.  In the rice, we would then soak the rice and the dead bugs would rise to the surface and we could eliminate them before cooking.

    The freezer certainly works to keep the bugs from getting in if you bought the flour bug free, too.


    Parent

    From an expert in little bugs... (none / 0) (#107)
    by Fabian on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 03:17:07 PM EST
    The "little bugs" are the larvae of meal moths.  Meal moths are actually a class of moths whose larvae eat many kinds of grain products.

    The best policy is exclusion - keep the moths out of ANY grain products.  The best place to get meal moths is bird seed.  Unfortunately.  I feed the birds so I've had plenty of experience with meal moths.  It isn't the only way to get meal moths, but it is the most common.

    Sealed, airtight containers are best.  I bought LockAndLock containers for my cereal and pasta storage.  (I found tiny black beetles in a box of pasta.  Ick.)  They seal well and are easy to clean.

    Whole grains should always be stored in the refrigerator or freezer unless you use them quickly.  The germ in whole grains contains oil.  Rancid oil does not taste good.

    If you see a lot of tiny moths flying about - you have an infestation.  Clean your cupboards.  Inspect everything.  Toss anything that is infested and make sure everything else is sealed up tight.

    Good luck on the baking!

    Parent

    Biden OpEd in USA Today (none / 0) (#1)
    by jedimom on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 09:52:59 AM EST
    has everyone seen the oped and the new Middle Class/Working Family Task Force headed by Biden?

    story here

    POTUS signing Exec Orders on this LIVE in a little bit...

    I wish they would tell us what income they feel constitutes middle class, throughout the campaign they said 250 under but the tax cuts in the stimulus phase out at 72k for a family of four....

    good they are showing the peeps they have something planned to help them, the stimulus support poll numbers were turning down..

    Bad Bank.TARP.Bank recap... (none / 0) (#2)
    by jedimom on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 09:54:26 AM EST
    WSJ reports Treasury will announce its plan Tuesday or Wed..since they apparently dont have a plan yet, that is interesting :0)

    HOLC? Can we get some HOLC over here!?

    IMO, no more TARP (none / 0) (#7)
    by andgarden on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 10:00:47 AM EST
    Democrats control the government, so it's time to nationalize the bad banks.

    Parent
    Pirates strike again! (none / 0) (#3)
    by kdog on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 09:55:35 AM EST
    They scored the German owned MV Longchamp carrying liquified petroleum gas.

    I gotta hand it to 'em...these cats have stones, the stepped up security presence ain't stoppin' 'em.  Desperation is like Miracle-Grow for stones.

    Arrr, this will go quite nicely with our (none / 0) (#14)
    by easilydistracted on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 10:28:46 AM EST
    bounty of converter boxes. Arrr. Hey dog what's up?

    Parent
    Brushing up... (none / 0) (#16)
    by kdog on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 10:33:55 AM EST
    on my sea-faring skills of course.  Could be plundering in the harbor anyday now:)

    Parent
    Like we've observed before... (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by easilydistracted on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 10:40:34 AM EST
    only need a canoe or two, handful of rocks and maybe a long stick (broom handle will work just fine). Now....if ya got a slingshot, well, that's pretty much state of the art pirate weaponry.

    Parent
    I am stealing this line...... (none / 0) (#19)
    by vml68 on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 10:38:19 AM EST
    Desperation is like Miracle-Grow for stones.


    Parent
    HOUSTON - (none / 0) (#4)
    by SOS on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 09:57:13 AM EST
    Exxon Mobil Corp. on Friday reported a profit of $45.2 billion for 2008, breaking its own record for a U.S. company, even as its fourth-quarter earnings fell 33 percent from a year ago.

    Happy Birthday... (none / 0) (#5)
    by desertswine on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 09:57:15 AM EST
    FDR - 30 January 1882.

    thanks for the heads up (none / 0) (#12)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 10:20:23 AM EST
    Inspired my latest post.

    Parent
    Seattle was rockin'... (none / 0) (#6)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 09:58:46 AM EST
    ...this morning--and not in a good way.

    There were no immediate reports of damage from a 4.5 magnitude earthquake that rattled the Seattle and Puget Sound area early today, but it woke a lot of people up.

    The quake at 5:25 a.m. was centered 14 miles northwest of Seattle near Kingston, in Kitsap County.

    The U.S. Geological Survey initially reported it as a 4.6 quake, but the University of Washington report on the Pacific Northwest Seismic Network listed it at 4.5.

    Link

    Not much of a quake (none / 0) (#77)
    by Inspector Gadget on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 01:58:17 PM EST
    Seattle just likes to make a really big deal out of everything.

    For every one person who felt it, there were probably 10,000 who didn't.


    Parent

    I'm sure... (none / 0) (#82)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 02:12:25 PM EST
    ...my family in Edmonds felt it--especially the relatives visiting from the East Coast.  

    Can't wait to hear their reaction to their first earthquake.

    Parent

    :) I'm in Edmonds, too (none / 0) (#114)
    by Inspector Gadget on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 07:56:28 PM EST
    Was awake when it happened and didn't feel a thing.

    Parent
    Judd Gregg (none / 0) (#8)
    by CoralGables on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 10:06:49 AM EST
    New Hampshire GOP Senator Judd Gregg is being mentioned as a possibility for Commerce Secretary.

    The upside is with a Democratic Governor in New Hampshire the replacement very possibly could (but not guaranteed) be a Democrat giving the DEM's a 60 seat Senate. (assuming an eventual Franken)

    The possible downside is Gregg has already voted with the Dem's 6 of 7 times since Obama took office and there is a rumor from New England Cable News that independent minded Governor John Lynch of New Hampshire may replace a GOP Senator with a GOP placeholder in former Gov. Walter Peterson, who endorsed Lynch when he ran for Governor, with the promise not to run for Senate re-election in 2010.

    I think the some people expect a little (5.00 / 2) (#11)
    by tigercourse on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 10:12:20 AM EST
    too much from the mythical 60 vote number. There are a whole bunch of conservative Democrats (Ben Nelson for one) who will break from the majority time and again on many issues, making that 60 pointless.

    Also Gregg in the cabinet means we will have 4 Republicans (1 more then the number of women). That's too many.

    Parent

    Likewise (none / 0) (#15)
    by CoralGables on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 10:33:41 AM EST
    there are several moderate GOP Senators in Snowe, Collins, and Gregg that are as likely to cross the aisle in the other direction.

    Parent
    On the Police and Thieves beat.... (none / 0) (#13)
    by kdog on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 10:24:16 AM EST
    This poor woman was terrorized by a warantless home invasion.  That's an everyday thing in America...what isn't is the officer coming back the next day with a hundo and some gift cards, and promises of a new coat.

    Anyone read about the woman who gave birth (none / 0) (#22)
    by vml68 on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 10:54:20 AM EST
    to octuplets?
    She has six kids already and used fertility treatments which resulted in the 8 new ones. She lives with her parents.

    The BF and I make a very good income and yet we get nervous at the thought of all the responsibility and expenses from birth to adulthood that having two children will entail. I just don't get it. How do you care and pay for 14 children in this day and age?

    Wonder what church (5.00 / 3) (#26)
    by ThatOneVoter on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 11:00:39 AM EST
    they belong to.
    I think that decisions about having octuplets should be made in consultation with one's pastor and physician.

    Parent
    It was reported on CBS (none / 0) (#71)
    by Amiss on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 01:05:25 PM EST
    that the grandfather was considering going home to Iraq to get a job to help care for all the lil ones.
    Whoever implanted those eggs was totally irresponsible imho.

    Parent
    I am puzzled (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by Steve M on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 11:17:04 AM EST
    at how you get a physician's approval for fertility treatments when you already have six kids.

    Parent
    Grants and promotions (5.00 / 3) (#45)
    by Cream City on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 11:47:56 AM EST
    push physicians to push fertility treatments.  Grants from pharmaceutical companies, which cost us indirectly, and from our government agencies, which cost us directly -- in the millions, even billions.

    And many of these are through medical schools --  and getting grants (and then getting published about procedures done by getting grants) gets these medical profs their promotions.

    I had a kid with a serious medical condition, and her specialist kept pushing serious surgery.  He is both a practicing physician and a medical prof -- but I looked into it, and he was only an assistant prof then.  Further research into funding of the hospital's clinic for her condition turned up huge grants he had gotten for . . . testing impact of surgery in such cases.

    I said I wanted a second opinion.  I took her to Mayo.  It said the surgery was not best suited for her.  That was 10 years ago -- during which time, she worked on controlling her condition through diet, exercise, and other good habits.

    Not only did the condition come under control; she even was able to go off the meds that the doc prescribed . . . which had side effects such as weight gain, lethargy, and many others that worked against her gaining good habits (including memory problems that prevented her from completing college).  But, as I suspected, he also was getting huge grants from pharmaceuticals to test those meds.

    It's even more horrifying and complex than this in many cases.  Question (medical) authority.
     

    Parent

    p.s. He did get his promotion (none / 0) (#47)
    by Cream City on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 11:49:37 AM EST
    to associate prof, i.e., tenure -- to get even bigger grants, so now he has gotten to full prof.

    But he didn't get there by getting to slice open my kid so that he could build his resume.  And his bank account.

    Parent

    It reminds me (none / 0) (#49)
    by Steve M on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 11:55:17 AM EST
    perhaps on a less dramatic scale, of how hospitals get encouraged to push baby formula.  Doctors are professionals and they're supposed to give you the best medical advice, not the most lucrative advice.

    Parent
    Or prescribing Potassium pills... (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by kdog on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 02:12:27 PM EST
    instead of saying "eat some bananas".

    Parent
    Heh... (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 02:21:49 PM EST
    ...my Nephrologist actually calls me when the old potassium is low and tells me to go eat a banana.

    If only I could get him to return my calls in a timely manner...

    Parent

    Sounds like a good doc... (none / 0) (#89)
    by kdog on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 02:35:22 PM EST
    aside from the phone issues.

    Parent
    Yeah... (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 02:49:44 PM EST
    ...I've got a pretty good team put together right now.  Unfortunately, had to go through alot of bad ones to get to that point.  

    Still, I don't trust them enough to not look-out for myself.  Got to be your own advocate when it comes to your health.  

    Parent

    No doubt... (none / 0) (#96)
    by kdog on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 02:54:23 PM EST
    they're human, just like us...you would be a fool not to question everything and do your own research in matters of your health....which I hope is as good as can be expected my friend.

    Parent
    Still kickin'... (none / 0) (#101)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 03:00:06 PM EST
    ...which is all I can ask for.  Thanks for the good thoughts!

    I'm actually going to a concert tonight--Reverend Horton Heat plus a couple of my fav punk/alt country local outfits.  And to a Polish place for dinner beforehand.  Most excitement I've had in quite some time...

    Parent

    Nice.... (none / 0) (#104)
    by kdog on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 03:06:19 PM EST
    down a couple extra perogies for me and rock out my man.

    Parent
    Isn't a nephrologist (none / 0) (#97)
    by Steve M on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 02:54:55 PM EST
    a guy who tells your future by feeling the bumps on your head?

    Parent
    Show them money. (none / 0) (#36)
    by Fabian on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 11:27:26 AM EST
    And shop around.

    People "shop" doctors to find the one(s) who will give them what they want.

    Parent

    Insurance? (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by mmc9431 on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 12:55:54 PM EST
    I'm curious as to the cost of the delivery, I heard that there was a staff of 48 or so there. I would hope she has good insurance!

    The grocery bills alone for 14 kids would be enough to have me screaming to the Feds for a bailout deal.

    Parent

    And PBJ's... (none / 0) (#70)
    by kdog on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 01:02:21 PM EST
    are out right now...hope they like bologna!

    Boars Head Deluxe Ham is definitely out.

    Parent

    I guess (none / 0) (#37)
    by Steve M on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 11:29:25 AM EST
    but it seems like some regulator needs to be looking over that particular doctor's shoulder.

    Parent
    Docs are largely (none / 0) (#38)
    by Fabian on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 11:32:55 AM EST
    self regulating like other well paid professionals.

    How well does that work?  I don't know.  Does a doctor fear malpractice lawsuits more than action by their professional board?

    Parent

    Other doctors interviewed (none / 0) (#59)
    by Inspector Gadget on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 12:48:24 PM EST
    said it is highly irregular to implant more than 1-4 at a time, and only with the agreement of selective reduction would most reputable doctors implant more than four.

    I don't know the ages of her other 6 children, but if they are old enough, they can help with the babies.

    The family was refusing to release their identity last I heard. Obviously, they are aware that many people would object to what they and their doctors just did.

    Parent

    According to the AP article I read... (5.00 / 2) (#69)
    by vml68 on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 12:56:26 PM EST
    the other children are 7,6,5,3 and 2 year old twins.
    Now I am really confused as to why she would need fertility treatments this time around.

    Parent
    I'm puzzled... (none / 0) (#39)
    by kdog on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 11:35:36 AM EST
    why you need a physician's approval to get any kind of drug treatment...fertility or otherwise.

    It's your doctor, not your overlord.

    Parent

    Mmmm (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by jbindc on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 11:37:03 AM EST
    But sometimes there are psychological tests with fertility treatment.  

    And seriously - what is this family's carbon footprint?

    Parent

    I hear ya... (none / 0) (#41)
    by kdog on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 11:43:11 AM EST
    the world is over-populated...no doubt.

    Mother Nature will take care of that when she is good and ready...I can't think of a way for humanity to deal with it outside of education and persuasion without getting too tyrannical.

    As for psychological tests...who gets to decide who is sane enough to have kids?  I don't wanna give psychologists, especially psychologists on the state payroll, the power to decide who can have kids with the help of fertility drugs and who can't...crazy people have the same rights as the sane as long as they ain't hurting others.

    Yeah, this woman may be hurting her own offspring, but we can't prove that beforehand...maybe she'll be a great mom and raise 14 great kids.

    Parent

    Because it's the law... (none / 0) (#42)
    by Steve M on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 11:45:17 AM EST
    If you mean "why you ought to need a physician's approval," that might be an interesting topic but it's not really pertinent to my question.

    Parent
    That surprised me too... (none / 0) (#53)
    by vml68 on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 12:14:49 PM EST
    I admit I am pretty ignorant about the whole  fertility treatment thing but I thought it was really expensive and that you had to jump through all kinds of hoops to get approved.

    Parent
    I don't think so (none / 0) (#63)
    by Inspector Gadget on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 12:50:51 PM EST
    I know several people who have had invitro done and both were people I would have thought a review process would have rejected.

    I didn't go through it with them, so I don't know exactly how it all worked, of course.

    Parent

    A Reason to drink (5.00 / 2) (#35)
    by mmc9431 on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 11:27:05 AM EST
    Eight screaming babies at once is scary enough, but the thought of dealing with eight 14 yr old kids at once would drive me over the edge.

    Best friend in HS came from family of eight boys. His mother always sat in the kitchen and looked brain dead! She never paid any attention to what was going on. Shell shocked maybe.

    Parent

    Even if you had the kind of income (5.00 / 3) (#43)
    by Anne on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 11:46:23 AM EST
    that could comfortably support a lot of children, I just do not see how there would be enough of the parents themselves to go around. To have that many kids just seems like a selfish indulgence that will end up affecting the kids, and not necessarily in a positive way.

    But, just as it isn't up to medical providers to pass judgment on a woman's other reproductive choices, it really isn't up to them to pass judgment on why a woman with 6 kids would want more.  That being said, I don't think a responsible fertility specialist would ever implant 8 eggs in a woman, ever; many are reluctant to implant more than 4.

    The Duggers are the family with 18 kids - I've never watched the show, but my daughter and I are convinced there will be a tell-all book written one day by one or more of them, and it isn't going to be pretty.  I am reminded of the possible urban legend about the old Groucho Marx show - You Bet Your Life - where he interviewed a pregnant woman contestant.  He asked her how many children she had, and when she replied "7," he asked why so many?  She said, "Well, I love my husband, of course."  Groucho's retort was, "Lady, I love my cigar, but occasionally I take it out of my mouth!"

    Parent

    Siblings (5.00 / 2) (#57)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 12:36:12 PM EST
    In big families, kids get huge amounts of support, attention, etc., from older siblings.

    I used to work with a guy who had 6 siblings, and when a neighbor's house burned down and the parents were killed, his mother and father adopted their 8 children.  His family was low-income working class to begin with, but they managed to clothe and feed all those kids.  He talked about his family a lot and said he couldn't even imagine how lonely it must be to have only one or two siblings growing up!

    All the older kids in his family had by that time worked their way through local colleges and were either established or well on their way to good professional careers, and the kids still at home were heading in the same direction.  Not one of them was in any kind of trouble in school or on the streets, though they lived in a rough neighborhood.

    Parent

    His parents are to be commended (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by vml68 on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 12:42:18 PM EST
    we need more parents like that.

    Parent
    Incredible people (none / 0) (#110)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 03:47:38 PM EST
    I agree.  My jaw just fell open when he told me the story.  He himself didn't seem to think it was all that remarkable.


    Parent
    I'm the oldest of 6 (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by ruffian on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 12:48:55 PM EST
    and my mom had to work two jobs after my dad left. My youngest brother still calls me on mother's day!

    Sure influenced my decision as to whether to have kids of my own. I felt like I had been taking care of kids from the time I was 6 until I was 23 - I was 35 before I would even consider having my own. But no good relationship presented itself...so I am now the best aunt ever!!!

    Parent

    Single woman (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by Inspector Gadget on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 01:53:10 PM EST
    I am baffled by the entire story.

    I did just see on the news that ethics reviews are being started.

    There were already 9 people occupying the 3 bedroom home and now they need to put up 8 cribs in the same space.

    It's certainly none of my business, but the story raises a ton of curiosity questions.  Like, who was the sperm donor for this procedure.

    Parent

    And when all 8 embryos (none / 0) (#48)
    by Cream City on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 11:52:09 AM EST
    were successfully implanted, the woman refused to follow the standard practice of reducing the number.  It would seem that the supervising fertility doc ought to review the agreement forms.

    I want a law that says that in such situations, if the mother and kids go on the public dole, the doc pays.

    Parent

    I don't know if it was embryo implant (none / 0) (#65)
    by zyx on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 12:54:49 PM EST
    ...sounds more like she took Clomid and superovulated like mad?

    In any case, this thing stinks and stinks a lot.

    Parent

    They said they implanted 8 fertilized eggs (none / 0) (#76)
    by Inspector Gadget on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 01:54:29 PM EST
    Normal procedure would be 1-4.

    It was invitro, unless there's another way to implant fertilized eggs.


    Parent

    There is so much wrong (none / 0) (#111)
    by zyx on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 05:50:50 PM EST
    with this situation.

    I feel pretty badly for all 14 kids. I know this woman means well, but that isn't nearly enough to provide a good upbringing for a child.

    Parent

    I don't know the woman means well (none / 0) (#115)
    by Inspector Gadget on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 08:10:06 PM EST
    what could the motivation for this possibly be?

    It wasn't careless sex with a significant partner. This was absolutely intentional. She had to convince the doctor to double (or more) the implant number a reputable doctor would have gone with.

    There has to be a motive behind all the decisions she made.  Her parents are standing behind her choices with a greater level of parental support than I've ever seen.

    Parent

    I think my favorite part of the story (none / 0) (#118)
    by Anne on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 09:55:18 PM EST
    is that the woman is working on a master's in psychology.

    I simply cannot imagine the woman, her parents and the six children living in a 3-bedroom home, and now having to eventually bring eight babies to live there.

    One of the hospital docs said that she had come to them already pregnant, and refused to undergo selective termination of any of the pregnancies; I know that is her right, but I still cannot get over the judgment of the fertility specialist who implanted eight embryos into this woman.

    She has been described as "ecstatic," but I wondered if a more apt description might be "manic."

    I am the mother of two children, who are now 22 and 25.  There were times when I was sure that the attention I was paying to one of them was shortchanging the other.  I always felt that my husband and I had made the decision to be parents, and it was our job to be parents, not to co-opt the older child to co-parent the younger one.  We believed that as a family, we all had a responsibility to participate in it, but that it was, really, our kids' place to be the kids, and our place to be the parents.

    I applaud all those families where kids co-parenting their siblings has worked out with no resentment, no anger that a childhood was lost to adult responsibilities, but I have to wonder how many of those there really are.

    I wish the best for the mother and her 14 children; can't help hoping she is finished having kids, though!

    Parent

    Enough parents to go around.... (none / 0) (#50)
    by kdog on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 11:56:37 AM EST
    In realy large families, the siblings help raise each other.  Only 4 kids in my fam, my older bro and sis had nearly as much of a hand in raising me as my parents did....and I helped raise the youngest.  

    Parent
    And (none / 0) (#25)
    by jbindc on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 10:58:31 AM EST
    her husband is a private contractor who is close to being on his way back to Iraq - leaving her alone (with her parents) and anyone else who can help take care of his 14 children.

    Parent
    Curious (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by CoralGables on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 11:48:37 AM EST
    as to where there is any info concerning her even being married. Any accounts I have read have her as anonymous.

    Parent
    It's her FATHER (5.00 / 2) (#67)
    by zyx on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 12:55:50 PM EST
    who is going to Iraq to help support the kids!

    I can't believe this story...

    Parent

    Ah (none / 0) (#119)
    by jbindc on Sat Jan 31, 2009 at 08:19:22 AM EST
    Saw another story that said she had a sperm donor and was wanting "one more girl"

    Parent
    Medically fragile infants (none / 0) (#30)
    by Fabian on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 11:05:08 AM EST
    at least some of whom will grow into special needs children needing additional care, attention and resources.

    Parent
    Apparently (none / 0) (#27)
    by Fabian on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 11:02:01 AM EST
    they don't do mental health screening for fertility treatments.  That could discourage potential clients.  If you have the cash and sign the consent form, they'll do you!

    It certainly seems to be that way.

    Parent

    I don't know and I don't wanna know.... (none / 0) (#28)
    by kdog on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 11:02:53 AM EST
    It's definitely nuts in my book, having so many kids, but we are all free to pursue our happiness.  Having kids must make her happy.

    We can only hope she can care for all those rugrats...but if the taxpayers end up having to pay for them what are you gonna do?  I'm certainly not down with China-esque reproduction limits or forced sterilization, like our government once practiced so tragically and tyranically.

    Freedom isn't free..as the saying goes.  I'm sure you agree.

    Parent

    hey, there's a show on TLC... (none / 0) (#31)
    by Dadler on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 11:08:42 AM EST
    ...about a family with 18 kids, the youngest of which was just born, the oldest just getting married.  i saw a few minutes where mom was going in for her sonogram and, i tell you, her OBGYN looked subtly exasperated, as if she wanted to tell these people...ENOUGH!!  In many ways, animals treat their offspring with more respect and concern than humans.

    Parent
    I have a friend from high school (none / 0) (#32)
    by ThatOneVoter on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 11:13:08 AM EST
    --she's probably 48 now. She wasn't raised Catholic, but she married a RC. She has 11 kids now (not sure), and had to stop a few years ago on doctor's orders because of her heart. 18 kids? I can't imagine.

    Parent
    Reminds me of Monty Python..... (none / 0) (#55)
    by kdog on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 12:30:34 PM EST
    "Every sperm is sacred, every sperm is great.
    If a sperm is wasted, God gets quite irate!"


    Parent
    "Can't you cut your b*lls off?" (none / 0) (#117)
    by Dadler on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 09:47:17 PM EST
    No no, God'd see right through that.  No, it's medical experiments for the lot of ya.

    Parent
    All already are costing us a lot (none / 0) (#34)
    by Cream City on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 11:21:09 AM EST
    as our health care "system" costs us all for fertility treatments pushed irresponsibly by physicians and hospitals, and all are costing us now for intensive care -- and will continue to cost us for treatment?

    Why would a couple with six kids need fertility treatments?  It must have been covered by her husband's insurance, probably covered by us, too, since he works for a contractor for our military.

    This appalls me.

    Parent

    Completely environmentally irresponsible (none / 0) (#54)
    by Dr Molly on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 12:19:34 PM EST
    in this day and age. We are well past Earth's carrying capacity.

    Parent
    That may be... (none / 0) (#66)
    by kdog on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 12:54:57 PM EST
    but I'm sure those kids will be glad to have been given the gift of a ride on this crazy roller coaster.

    I and many others ain't havin' any, I'll give her my quota of 1 or 2 if that helps:)

    Parent

    Not that they would have missed it (none / 0) (#112)
    by Dr Molly on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 07:08:57 PM EST
    if they didn't exist.

    Parent
    These questions... (none / 0) (#120)
    by kdog on Sat Jan 31, 2009 at 10:27:31 AM EST
    get heavy, don't they Doc?

    Parent
    Definitely, kdog! (none / 0) (#121)
    by Dr Molly on Sat Jan 31, 2009 at 02:00:03 PM EST
    I am just so worried about extreme overpopulation and environmental destruction. We have to stop...

    Parent
    Time for my annual (none / 0) (#24)
    by Fabian on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 10:57:42 AM EST
    Shoppin' during the Super Bowl!

    Or since they refuse to air the Super Bowl during daylight hours - Shopping Before the Super Bowl.  It's marvelous!

    When I lived in Colorado (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by ruffian on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 12:50:57 PM EST
    I always went skiing on SB Sunday - marvelous as well!  

    Probably will go to see a movie this year - getting ready for Oscar nigth. Still need to see Slumdog Millionaire and Frost/Nixon.

    Parent

    What kind of shopping? (none / 0) (#62)
    by vml68 on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 12:49:23 PM EST


    Parent
    Any kind. (none / 0) (#78)
    by Fabian on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 01:59:43 PM EST
    Perhaps the mall to look for sales.  Probably grocery shopping.

    It doesn't really matter.  It's like a little vacation.

    Parent

    Now you are really confusing me... (none / 0) (#79)
    by vml68 on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 02:03:31 PM EST
    What is so special about Super Bowl shopping?

    Parent
    I assume (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by Steve M on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 02:56:16 PM EST
    that the stores are much less crowded when everyone is home watching TV.

    Back in college I remember doing my laundry during the Super Bowl, at least in those years when I didn't care about either of the teams.  No trouble finding a free dryer!

    Parent

    NOBODY is out! (none / 0) (#98)
    by Fabian on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 02:55:38 PM EST
    Almost everyone is getting ready for the Big Super Bowl Party!

    It means you can stroll through stores at your leisure without being elbow to elbow with people.  Since it is regular shopping hours, stores are still open.  It's not a recognized holiday like Christmas or Labor Day but the effect is much the same.

    Employees are often in a good mood too.  They are at work, collecting their hourly wage, with little to do.

    It's also a great time to go the movies.

    Parent

    Aha! (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by vml68 on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 03:07:29 PM EST
    I have spent the past three weeks helping take care of my young nieces so my logical reasoning/deduction skills are suffering!

    Parent
    Also, as I learned a few years ago, (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 03:26:32 PM EST
    it's a great time for thieves to break into businesses since nobody's on the streets.

    And not a good time for business owners to be watching Janet Jackson get her boob  flashed at halftime at a friend's house high in the hills where there's no cell coverage so the security alarm people can't get through to you...

    Ah well, go Steelers!

    Parent

    The stores are empty... (none / 0) (#100)
    by kdog on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 02:57:03 PM EST
    I assume...not that everyday isn't like the Super Bowl these days in the stores.

    Parent
    Because I'm a poll junkie (none / 0) (#29)
    by andgarden on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 11:03:25 AM EST
    Markos has some IL-Sen numbers. Burris leads in the dem primary, and he's on his way to locking up the black vote, which is a worrying sign. Hopefully, he gets a good challenger (1!!!) and can't raise any money.

    They'll back Burris (none / 0) (#44)
    by mmc9431 on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 11:47:24 AM EST
    Unless Burris screws up really bad, he'll win the primary. He'll have the IL party backing him. (They continue to back Lupinski).

    Only hope is that the Republican continue to parade another hardliner out, like Oberweis. Remember the fiasco of Alan Keyes.

    Parent

    Don't remind me about Keyes (5.00 / 2) (#51)
    by Slado on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 12:08:28 PM EST
    If Ditka had run we'd be talking about President Clinton.

    Parent
    Bush is still asserting power (none / 0) (#52)
    by mmc9431 on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 12:13:06 PM EST
    I just received this e-mail:

    Through his lawyers, four days before his term was up, former President Bush informed Rove that he was continuing to assert executive privilege over any testimony by Rove -- even after he leaves office -- and instructed him not to cooperate with congressional inquiries

    Go Steelers! (none / 0) (#72)
    by CST on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 01:31:21 PM EST
    I know it's early, but I'm ready

    I'm torn... (none / 0) (#73)
    by kdog on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 01:42:58 PM EST
    don't know who to root for.  I'm AFC all the way, East Coast all the way, and admire the blue-collar rep of Pittsburgh.

    But I love an underdog, and you don't get a bigger underdog than the freakin' Chicago/St.Louis/Phoenix/Arizona Cardinals.

    I guess I'll just root for a good game and one of my boxes to hit...I'll need a miracle on that cuz' I drew some real sh*t numbers....8-8 and 9-2 and assorted garbage....more than anything I'm rooting for some safeties:)

    Parent

    It's easy for me (none / 0) (#74)
    by CST on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 01:50:34 PM EST
    Pats are my #1 team, Steelers are #2, than AFC, than East Coast (except the NY/NJ teams and Indy of course - those are always last - I am glad I don't have to see an Indy/Giants SB though, It'd be like the Yankees - Mets WS, rooting for both teams to lose).  

    4 years of living in Pittsburgh will do that to a person.  Especially since I was there when they won the last time - and they did so without going through my #1 team, so no hard feelings.

    I kinda wanted to see a Philly vs. Pittsburgh superbowl.  But it should be fun regardless.

    Parent

    The rumor is... (none / 0) (#80)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 02:09:46 PM EST
    ...maybe not a parade this time for the Yinzer faithful?

    I guess it is probably old-hat by now anyhow.

    Parent

    Wow (none / 0) (#81)
    by CST on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 02:11:30 PM EST
    I can't imagine them not having it.

    It may be old-hat, but that city lives and dies with the Steelers.

    Parent

    And here I thought... (none / 0) (#84)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 02:17:31 PM EST
    ...they lived and died for Primanti's sanwiches and Iron City beer.  

    Mmmmmmmmm, sandwich...

    You'd think the Rooney's would be able to cover the cost of a parade--even in these tough times.

    Parent

    hey hey Primanti's! (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by lilburro on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 09:20:23 PM EST
    I lived in Pittsburgh for a bit...famous Primanti's.

    As an Eagles fan, I am really not that excited about this Super Bowl.  I guess I'll cheer for the Cardinals...couldn't cheer for the Steelers, ever :(  'tis the way of all things.

    Parent

    Oh man (none / 0) (#87)
    by CST on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 02:23:22 PM EST
    I hate Primanti's...

    Greasy fries loaded on a greasy sandwich... not for me, although not as bad as the "O".  But then again, I am not a Pittsburgh local.

    And Yuengling is waaaay better than Iron City, even if it's not from Pittsburgh, it is basically treated like the "local" brew.

    I bet they end up having a parade...

    Parent

    I like the Rooneys... (none / 0) (#91)
    by kdog on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 02:38:18 PM EST
    among the best owners in sports.

    The article didn't allude to money issues, it was safety issues with the crowds.

    If they don't have one, I think the fans will throw together their own.  Assuming they win, we're jinxing 'em:)

    Parent

    Not to rain on the parade (none / 0) (#93)
    by jondee on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 02:48:07 PM EST
    but word is, in the seventies the Steelers were to 'roids what the Kesey and Owsley were to acid.

    I did like Franco though. He looks like Welcome Back Kotter now.

    Parent

    I liked Lambert... (none / 0) (#102)
    by kdog on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 03:00:31 PM EST
    the ultimate football mug on that cat.

    Parent
    Another Penn St (none / 0) (#103)
    by jondee on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 03:05:33 PM EST
    guy wasnt he? Ya know alot of people forget that Harris was the no 2 guy at Penn State, their go-to guy was a back named Lydell Mitchell, even better than Harris imo, but he had terrible knees unfortunatly.

    Parent
    Us old time (Baltimore) Colt fans... (none / 0) (#106)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 03:09:28 PM EST
    remeber Lydell--and his knees--very well.  

    Parent
    What a shame (none / 0) (#108)
    by jondee on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 03:21:38 PM EST
    same thing with my all-time-fav the Kansas Comet (Sayers) and so many others.

    Parent
    Every once in awhile (none / 0) (#90)
    by jondee on Fri Jan 30, 2009 at 02:36:10 PM EST
    I accidentally listen to 5 minutes or so of that ambulatory psychotic Michael Savage and I find myself wondering how long ago he would've been thrown off the air if he had been leveling his racist bile at any other ethnic goup other than Arabs.

    Dont tell me we dont promote, and all-too-often lap up, so-called hate speech in this country, when as*holes like that can be syndication.

    Friday Morning Open Thread | 121 comments (121 topical)

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