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Monday Afternoon Open Thread

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Blog Related
Posted on Mon Oct 12, 2009 at 03:51:20 PM EST
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As you all know, Jeralyn is spa-ing it this week. So we are light on the criminal law coverage until she gets back.

So, an assignment to our readers, bring us the important criminal law stories and/or blog posts that you are reading and thinking about. I will do a daily crime linky thread.

In the meantime, this is an Open Thread.

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    Monday Afternoon Open Thread | 63 comments (63 topical)

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    FBI's mining your face. (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by Ben Masel on Mon Oct 12, 2009 at 04:36:15 PM EST
    FBI delves into DMV photos in search for fugitives

    Facial-recognition software is not entirely new, but the North Carolina project is the first major step for the FBI as it considers expanding use of the technology to find fugitives nationwide...

    FBI officials have organized a panel of authorities to study how best to increase use of the software. It will take at least a year to establish standards for license photos, and there's no timetable to roll out the program nationally.

    Marc Rotenberg, executive director of the Electronic Privacy Information Center, questioned whether the facial-recognition systems that were pushed after the Sept. 11 attacks are accurate or even worthwhile.

    "We don't have good photos of terrorists," Rotenberg said. "Most of the facial-recognition systems today are built on state DMV records because that's where the good photos are. It's not where the terrorists are."

    Rotenburg overlooks the collection of activists' photos the Feds have been building up with extensive taping of protests, escalating in 2002. When I secured permits for a 'Public Forum Stage' outside the National Conference of Mayors' meeting in Madisaon in June 2002, a pair of agents were assigned fulltime to video... me.

    At the large legal march preceding the 2004 Republican Convention in NYC, I personally observed perhaps 300 cops along the march route shooting video.

    My surmise: While the Recognition software, in theory, can perform virtual rotations to match images, they found it more effective if you've got a shot taken from the same angle in your backend database.

    The health lobby; the defense lobby; the Nobel (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Mon Oct 12, 2009 at 05:02:33 PM EST
    At this point, anybody with a grain of sense recognizes that Obama got in bed with the health lobby and gave them precisely what they wanted. This precedent should serve as a ginormous indicator of what Obama will do when any other out-sized lobbyist comes a courtin'.

    For instance, some Obama critics are concerned that the Nobel Peace Prize will serve as a smoke-screen for Obama and the war-making lobby to become even more hawkish in furthering Bush's agenda on national security and armed conflict. This was discussed on Sunday Night's Open Thread, where a couple of commenters seemed incredulous and unfamiliar with the fact that Obama's time in office has been frequently characterized as Bush's 3rd term.

    FWIW, here's a small sampling of both old and new stories which make the case that Obama is Bush's 3rd term:

    • The case was made prior to the election by the Wall Street Journal, July 2/08: Bush's Third Term .

    • On Sept 15/08, the foregoing WSJ story was followed by a WaPo story which presented counter-spin from Obama's camp: Bush's Overseas Policies Begin Resembling Obama's

    • Greenwald, has chronicled Obama's furtherance of Bush policies from the get-go, here's his overview from Oct 8/09: A historian's account of Democrats and Bush-era war crimes.

    • One of the more damming recent indictments came from David Swanson, at The Nation Sept, 1/09: Bush's Third Term: You're Living It. (Swanson's story was linked by numerous other outlets, including: CommonDreams; TruthOut; Salon; TomDispatch.)

    • Tom Engelhardt, editor of TomDispatch, wrote an article in support of Swanson's analysis on Sept 1/09: David Swanson: The More Things Change.

    • On Oct 10/09, Arthur Silber wrote a post-Nobel article, at The Power of Narrative: Endless Lies, Endless Sucker Plays.

    • On Oct 10/09, Anthony Gregory, at The Independent Institute, also wrote a post-Nobel article: The Real Problem With Obama's Nobel. Here's the take home meassage:
      The real problem with Obama's Nobel is not that it might neuter him, but rather that it may embolden him. In the name of peace, he and previous presidents have kept America in a virtual state of perpetual war for three generations. The Nobel is a signal to Obama that he can keep talking like a man of peace even as he acts like a master of war.


    Parent
    More on the Peace Prize (5.00 / 5) (#12)
    by jbindc on Mon Oct 12, 2009 at 05:14:47 PM EST
    John Kass of the Chicago Tribune made me laugh with his take:

    Last January, at the beginning of those 12 Amazing Days, thick clouds of Hopium wafted over us. So there is a slight chance I inhaled, repeatedly, and became confused about those early, heady days. Yet through the fog of time and Hopium, I remember it as a time of high adventure; of gentle forest creatures and centaurs banding together to fight cynicism and sprinkle hope upon the people. It was a time of tea and cakes.

    On the First Day, tens of thousands waited hours and packed the National Mall to hear his inaugural speech. They were so cold, tired and hungry. Obama brought forth two McDonald's Filet-O-Fish sandwiches and five burger buns, broke them and distributed these among the people. All were nourished, with plenty of scraps left over for the starving Republicans.

    The next day, Obama journeyed to the tomb of the Republican Party, which had shot itself repeatedly in the foot until it died. There in the shadowy rocks, Barack bent over the corpses of commentators Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh and breathed new life into them.

    "Rise, my good friends!" cried Barack. "I give you purpose! Rise and flap your gums, call me socialist and enrich yourselves. Blame me, though George Bush started the federal bailouts. Rise and prosper!"

    And they did as they were told. They had new life and plenty of money.

    On the Third Day, he bid adieu to Chicago Mayor Richard Daley, who'd spent the night at the White House to make sure things would run smoothly. This was proper, since years ago, the Daley women found the infant Barack floating in a reed basket along the banks of the Chicago River. They nurtured the crying babe, until he was ready to transcend the politics of the past.

    Obama spent the Fourth Day pondering getting a dog for daughters Sasha and Malia. Journalists were so enraptured, so turgid with glee about the dog, they forgot to ask if he'd walk Bo and scoop up his legacies with a plastic bag from the Jewel like every other American dad. And things were good.

    On the Fifth Day, Gov. Blagojevich sent the president a life-size wooden puppet named Roland. Barack placed his palm on the puppet's forehead, and lo, the puppet became a United States senator. And the Democrats, with a solid majority, were amazed.

    For seven more days it continued, one miracle after another. The president picked the Steelers in the Super Bowl. They won. He submitted an $885 billion stimulus plan to Congress. The money was printed. He nominated a tax cheat for secretary of the Treasury. The tax cheat was confirmed.

    "This is not how I expected to wake up this morning," said Obama on Friday. "Malia walked in and said, 'Daddy, you won the Nobel Peace Prize, and it's Bo's birthday.' And then Sasha added, 'Plus we have a three-day weekend coming up.' It's good to have kids to keep things in perspective."

    It's good that the Nobel committee has things in perspective, too, recognizing his 12 Amazing Days of Peace, Harmony and Universal Love (may their memories forever burn brightly).

    Oh, what a time it was. Now please pass the Hopium.

    Peace.



    New troop increase 2 days after Nobel Peace Prize (none / 0) (#43)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 12:16:42 AM EST
    White House Quietly Authorized 13,000 More Troops For Afghan War, WaPo, Oct 13/09 :
    President Obama announced in March that he would be sending 21,000 additional troops to Afghanistan. But in an unannounced move, the White House has also authorized -- and the Pentagon is deploying -- at least 13,000 troops beyond that number, according to defense officials. [snip] "Obama authorized the whole thing. The only thing you saw announced in a press release was the 21,000," said another defense official familiar with the troop-approval process.

    Now we, evidently, have our first inkling as to whether Obama sees the Nobel Peace Prize as an incentive to deescalate the use of military force; or whether he will use it as a smoke screen to "stay the course".


    Parent

    Pretty sneaky huh? (none / 0) (#51)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 12:51:24 AM EST
    You'll have at least 20,000 contractors sent as well to "support" the "support".  Some of them are guns.....most are not.  But most of the "military support" is very very weapon proficient and they will be mined for those talents and placed in roles accordingly.  I figure out of a media reported 21,000 troop surge you can end up with a total head count in the combat zone of around 55,000 added to the United States footprint.  I also think other countries are about to up their ante too with us.  Rumor has it except Germany, who for reasons I don't know are having a hard time politically when it comes to staying with this Afghanistan mission.

    Parent
    I couldn't believe it when bloggers (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 01:15:16 AM EST
    started yammering about how Obama wasn't going to send more troops.  Did you see where Gates said that he sent 3,000 recently and would continue to send "support" troops as they were needed while Obama is "deciding" if he will send more troops?  That's a pretty good one too.  To my knowledge there has been a continous stream of new bodies flown into Afghanistan for over a month now...but he isn't escalating because they are sending enablers, not troops :)  The contractors we are sending and have already sent aren't in any of these numbers either.

    Parent
    What do you make of all this? (none / 0) (#53)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 02:48:20 AM EST
    I mean as to the methods the Administration is using to up the numbers; and the pros and cons of what they're doing and how they're going about it.

    How do the real military folks feel about the contractors? Is there support for reinstatement of the draft among the people you know? Is there a sense of what the mission and exit strategy are?

    MT, I know there are ways in which we come from very different places, but please trust that my questions are well-intentioned.

    Parent

    I don't mind talking truths at all (none / 0) (#56)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 10:29:49 AM EST
    and I already know that just about everybody blogging here is antiwar, I've been hanging out with you guys my whole life :)  I would not hang with you guys or organize or vote with you guys if you were a bunch of warmongers :)  If we aren't leaving Afghanistan though we have to send troops because our footprint is too small and we really can't complete any mission there other than daily fighting to keep those there secure.  We can do nothing to change the power dynamics of the country.  The only thing that can happen under the circumstances is that our troops will be constantly attacked and their retalation will bring with it a lot of collateral damage.  And in fact, we have times that our attackers have gone out of their way to make sure that there is collateral damage to innocents because that will inspire fresh troops on their side.  Using the methods that the administration is using to boost troop numbers are nothing new though and Bush did the same thing to you.  Young soldiers don't seem to have much of an opinion about Contractors but career military DON'T THINK MUCH OF THEM, they think they should have to sign something....commit to something larger than self interest.  Once someone has signed on that dotted line though they become accounted for in the system...they are part of 21,000 or 13,000.  As a contractor you are not part of the system that answers to voters or the media in the same fashion, you are sort of an unknown quantity.  Nobody in my vicinity has talked about a draft since the surge, doesn't mean that that sort of talking won't come about though again.  The military aren't who will make that decision though...that would be the American public and they aren't going to allow that that I can see.  There is a very very serious sense of mission and strategy right now, but you aren't going to know what that is and neither am I by reading a few articles in the paper. It can't be that easy for those that we are going to have to face in Afghanistan to know what our strategy and methods are :)

    Parent
    I don't mind talking truths at all (none / 0) (#57)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 10:29:49 AM EST
    and I already know that just about everybody blogging here is antiwar, I've been hanging out with you guys my whole life :)  I would not hang with you guys or organize or vote with you guys if you were a bunch of warmongers :)  If we aren't leaving Afghanistan though we have to send troops because our footprint is too small and we really can't complete any mission there other than daily fighting to keep those there secure.  We can do nothing to change the power dynamics of the country.  The only thing that can happen under the circumstances is that our troops will be constantly attacked and their retalation will bring with it a lot of collateral damage.  And in fact, we have times that our attackers have gone out of their way to make sure that there is collateral damage to innocents because that will inspire fresh troops on their side.  Using the methods that the administration is using to boost troop numbers are nothing new though and Bush did the same thing to you.  Young soldiers don't seem to have much of an opinion about Contractors but career military DON'T THINK MUCH OF THEM, they think they should have to sign something....commit to something larger than self interest.  Once someone has signed on that dotted line though they become accounted for in the system...they are part of 21,000 or 13,000.  As a contractor you are not part of the system that answers to voters or the media in the same fashion, you are sort of an unknown quantity.  Nobody in my vicinity has talked about a draft since the surge, doesn't mean that that sort of talking won't come about though again.  The military aren't who will make that decision though...that would be the American public and they aren't going to allow that that I can see.  There is a very very serious sense of mission and strategy right now, but you aren't going to know what that is and neither am I by reading a few articles in the paper. It can't be that easy for those that we are going to have to face in Afghanistan to know what our strategy and methods are :)

    Parent
    I really wish the President would commit (none / 0) (#58)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 10:33:17 AM EST
    publicly to this effort though.  Lay it on the line with the American people.  Perhaps there is a reason for this as well.  Perhaps we don't want to announce to those that would join our enemies that we are coming in hot.

    Parent
    Artistry (none / 0) (#50)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 12:39:39 AM EST


    Parent
    Sorry, no link (5.00 / 2) (#28)
    by Jackson Hunter on Mon Oct 12, 2009 at 06:04:42 PM EST
    even though I tried to find it BTD.  It's another case of Zero Tolerance gone completely out of control.  Apparently a 6 year old kid is facing 45 days in reform school for bringing his boy scout knife (you know, one of the swiss army ones that have the fork and spoon, it wasn't a frickin' K-Bar.)  This Country is getting beyond insane.  This all goes back to the "War on Drugs" nonsense and at some point has to stop.

    It was on Fox and CNN today.

    Jackson

    And, she couldn't have picked a better time (none / 0) (#2)
    by Inspector Gadget on Mon Oct 12, 2009 at 04:45:44 PM EST
    Jeralyn is spa-ing it this week

    Anyone else see those horrible auto accident scenes taking place on the Denver highways this morning? Isn't it too early everywhere for snow? I heard Denver and Mpls/St Paul got their first snowfalls this morning!

    ROMAN POLANSKI is depressed, per (none / 0) (#3)
    by oculus on Mon Oct 12, 2009 at 04:47:37 PM EST
    Huff Po headline.

    That one does not count (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Oct 12, 2009 at 04:53:06 PM EST


    Parent
    Bernard-Henri Lévy is down with NPP (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Mon Oct 12, 2009 at 11:11:51 PM EST
    Also from HuffPo, French Philosopher, Bernard Henri Lévy weighs in: No Doubt Obama Deserves the Nobel! Here's the upshot:

    *War is the path to peace:

    Isn't the very idea of giving the Nobel Peace Prize to a sitting head of state who makes war, and may do so tomorrow even more so, ultimately strange? Not if you think, as I do, that the war in Afghanistan is a just war whose sole aim is peace.

    *Obama is both a peace activist and the head of a warring state who could be assassinated like two other Nobel heads of state:
    He is a man who belongs to two families. The family of those singular men and women whose lives are in danger because of their struggle for peace...like Sima Samar, Hu Jia, and Piedad Cordoba. And the family of the other great heads of state who have won the Nobel before him, two of whom, Rabin and Sadat ended up being assassinated.

    *The Nobel Peace Prize is a shield and a cudgel for Obama:

    Let us say that from this standpoint the Nobel contributes to providing him "sanctuary"...And it considerably reinforces him in dealing with people like Ahmadinejad, the leaders of North Korea, and the Syrians. How will he arrive at his inevitable meeting with Ahmadinejad? With a Nobel Peace Prize, a timely and formidable trump card.

    This is where it gets scary. Levi maintains that the Nobel is a "trump card" that gives Obama carte blanche to do as he wishes; and he is free of consequences since the Nobel provides him with an exalted "sanctuary": a place of refuge or protection where fugitives from justice were immune from arrest, originally in churches or other sacred places.

    Doesn't that sound a whole lot more purdy than Presidential immunity via executive privilege?

    Parent

    Well at least he's still talking... (none / 0) (#32)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Mon Oct 12, 2009 at 06:56:55 PM EST


    Parent
    When I mentioned Polanski at book club (none / 0) (#41)
    by oculus on Mon Oct 12, 2009 at 11:55:26 PM EST
    yesterday, the woman next to me (who has been in Portugal and Spain) sd.:  what are you talking about?

    Parent
    She obviously reads books :) (none / 0) (#59)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 10:34:10 AM EST


    Parent
    The woman next to her started filling in (none / 0) (#61)
    by oculus on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 11:03:34 AM EST
    the backstory, starting with the murder of Sharon Tate. Don't think she had read Helter Skeltor.

    Parent
    I thought about reading Helter Skeltor (none / 0) (#62)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 02:27:10 PM EST
    when I was younger, but other things jumped off the shelf at me that day so I did not take it out.  I do wish that I currently read too many books daily to know about Polanski.

    Parent
    I read it. Chilling. (none / 0) (#63)
    by oculus on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 02:36:56 PM EST
    Also read his The Sea Will Tell.  Good writer.

    Parent
    Hope she's not sweat lodging (none / 0) (#5)
    by SOS on Mon Oct 12, 2009 at 04:54:34 PM EST
    for $10,000 a crack.  

    Ew. (none / 0) (#8)
    by Fabian on Mon Oct 12, 2009 at 05:07:00 PM EST
    I just threw up a little reading about James Arthur Ray.  I thought this was some kind of well intentioned mystical new age stuff.  Oh, it's might be a little of that, but it's more focused on Success and Wealth :
    Waugh said Ray refused to speak with authorities and has since left the state.

    "We will continue this investigation down every road that is possible to find out if there is culpability on anybody relative to the deaths of these individuals," Waugh said. He said it could be three to four weeks before they knew if criminal charges would be filed.

    Ray's recent postings on his Twitter account said he was "shocked and saddened" by the tragedy.

    "My deep heartfelt condolences to family and friends of those who lost their lives," he wrote. "I am spending the weekend in prayer and meditation for all involved in this difficult time; and I ask you to join me in doing the same."

    Ray claims to help people achieve both spiritual and financial wealth. "The real key to creating the life of your dreams is achieving true Harmonic Wealth®," he says on his Web site, trademark included.

    The self-styled success guru says people are ready for his wisdom if "You simply (and deeply) want to make more money and become more successful" and "want to double, triple, even multiply by ten the size of your business."

    [LINK]

    Parent
    Been to one of his seminars (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Inspector Gadget on Mon Oct 12, 2009 at 05:25:18 PM EST
    He's as creepy as you think. My brother talked me into going for a 2 hour "seminar" that was really just a 2 hour sales pitch that was delivered with the finesse of a shady used car salesman.

    Parent
    Oh yeah Forbes bragged about (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by SOS on Mon Oct 12, 2009 at 05:33:55 PM EST
    how Rays business has been enjoying 596% growth rates. A real "Growth Opportunity".

    Parent
    Thanks for the info. (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by Fabian on Mon Oct 12, 2009 at 06:41:31 PM EST
    The one role I loved Tom Cruise in was Magnolia as the totally sleazy self help guru.

    I could never figure out if the character was meant to be over the top or an accurate portrayal.  Great movie, but not for people who like explosions, chases and simple, linear plots.
    (If the director, Paul Thomas Anderson, made Alan Moore's Watchmen - I'd be first in line!)

    Parent

    Well . . (none / 0) (#11)
    by SOS on Mon Oct 12, 2009 at 05:14:34 PM EST
    you can't buy infinite wisdom for $10,000 bucks. They don't tell you that in any disclaimer. It has to earned through hard won experience. And that code can't broken with a credit card or check.

    It's a shame people died because of this misfits actions.

    Parent

    I did some online research (none / 0) (#16)
    by Fabian on Mon Oct 12, 2009 at 05:28:42 PM EST
    And they made at least three errors.

    Eat lightly before.
    They fasted for 36 hours and then had a buffet breakfast.  I don't think that qualifies.

    Leave if you don't feel comfortable.
    Participants were discouraged from leaving, although there was no actual rule that forbade people from leaving the lodge.

    Usually a small number of people participate, one or two dozen.  Usually there is only one leader who monitors everyone.  

    Parent

    Just stuffing all those people into (none / 0) (#19)
    by SOS on Mon Oct 12, 2009 at 05:31:50 PM EST
    a plastic covered "lodge" . . I mean come on. Just the C02 would kill you.

    Parent
    Three names (none / 0) (#22)
    by Spamlet on Mon Oct 12, 2009 at 05:37:31 PM EST
    Like an assassin.

    Parent
    I saw in a local paper 18 people were (none / 0) (#6)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Oct 12, 2009 at 04:59:06 PM EST
    arrested on one count each of possession of a methamphetamine precursor. I might be mistaken, but it only takes a few boxes-- two or three of ephedrine or whatever the stuff is to go over the limit for possession.

    Seem draconian?

    I don't know. (none / 0) (#10)
    by Fabian on Mon Oct 12, 2009 at 05:12:10 PM EST
    In Ohio you have to sign for anything containing pseudoephedrine, so I assume that if you are in possession without the proper paper trail that you could be breaking the law.

    Not sure how the laws are set up though, and I assume they vary state to state.  

    Parent

    these were based on purchase reports from (none / 0) (#24)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Oct 12, 2009 at 05:45:30 PM EST
    drug stores, apparently, not from being caught with a few or a lot of boxes. Wish I knew more about these cases.

    Parent
    There was an article (none / 0) (#27)
    by Inspector Gadget on Mon Oct 12, 2009 at 05:50:23 PM EST
    last week about a gramma who was arrested for buying one box of 18 capsules for her husband, and a box of 30 capsules for her daughter. The two purchases in less than 30 days put her in possession of the teenie amount of whatever ingredient is convertible to meth.

    This is ridiculous and must stop. If the laws are going to take such a rigid stand on OTC drugs, they need to clearly mark them with what % of the monthly allotment the package contains, or make these things by prescription only.


    Parent

    That IS ridiculous. (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by Fabian on Mon Oct 12, 2009 at 06:45:32 PM EST
    I could blow through a box with one cold and if one person is buying for family members due to transportation problems, they could easily buy three or four boxes.

    I'd hate to make it prescription - that's an appointment, a separate trip and added expense.  Unless the doc calls in the prescription...  My pediatrician will do that for simple things like antibiotic eye drops for conjuctivitis.

    Parent

    Or one box for home (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by nycstray on Mon Oct 12, 2009 at 07:13:08 PM EST
    and one for the office. When I have an on site job, I frequently buy 2 of things.

    Parent
    Wow (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by andgarden on Mon Oct 12, 2009 at 06:56:26 PM EST


    Parent
    here's the story (none / 0) (#35)
    by Inspector Gadget on Mon Oct 12, 2009 at 08:20:29 PM EST
    on the gramma.

    Parent
    A methamphetmine precursor? (none / 0) (#60)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 10:37:24 AM EST
    That had better effing be something beyond my decongestant I have to sign for all the damned time!!!!!

    Parent
    is it just me (none / 0) (#9)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Oct 12, 2009 at 05:10:29 PM EST
    or are the insurance companies totally asking for draconian regulation:

    Democrats and their allies scrambled on Monday to knock down a new industry-funded study forecasting that Senate legislation, over time, will add thousands of dollars to the cost of a typical policy. "Distorted and flawed," said White House spokeswoman Linda Douglass. "Fundamentally dishonest," said AARP's senior policy strategist, John Rother. "A hatchet job," said a spokesman for Senate Finance Committee chairman Max Baucus, D-Mont.
    These are obviously some truly nasty (none / 0) (#14)
    by SOS on Mon Oct 12, 2009 at 05:18:37 PM EST
    people what I really suspect is the Insurance Industry's are probably as healthy financially as the rest of the various industry's that went belly up last fall and is looking to get a bailout before they become the next "shoe to fall" on the American Economy.


    Parent
    Heavy infant in denied health insurance (none / 0) (#13)
    by nycstray on Mon Oct 12, 2009 at 05:16:50 PM EST
    GRAND JUNCTION -- Alex Lange is a chubby, dimpled, healthy and happy 4-month-old.

    But in the cold, calculating numbered charts of insurance companies, he is fat. That's why he is being turned down for health insurance. And that's why he is a weighty symbol of a problem in the health care reform debate.

    Insurance companies can turn down people with pre-existing conditions who aren't covered in a group health care plan.

    Alex's pre-existing condition -- "obesity" -- makes him a financial risk. Health insurance reform measures are trying to do away with such denials that come from a process called "underwriting."



    link

    Some interesting info in the comments regarding the baby's weight . . .

    Yeah but even people (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by SOS on Mon Oct 12, 2009 at 05:29:51 PM EST
    fully insured get constant surprises. We don't pay for that, we don't pay for this . . how people can't see it's nothing more then predatory wealth extraction at this point disguised as Health Care boggles the imagination.

    Parent
    And don't forget the rate hikes (none / 0) (#21)
    by nycstray on Mon Oct 12, 2009 at 05:35:41 PM EST
    which is why this family was looking for new insurance. Their old policy was going to hike them 40% after she had her baby.

    Parent
    Phil./Rockies game is on. Bottom (none / 0) (#17)
    by oculus on Mon Oct 12, 2009 at 05:29:05 PM EST
    of the first. Phil. 1, Rockies 0, with runners on first and third, one out.

    Go Phillies! (none / 0) (#23)
    by andgarden on Mon Oct 12, 2009 at 05:41:32 PM EST
    (Don't make me watch. . .)

    Parent
    Ah ha. You have made a sp