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Tuesday Afternoon Open Thread

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Blog Related
Posted on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 02:53:48 PM EST
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It's Tuesday afternoon. This song popped into my head:

Made me feel better. This is an Open Thread.

< Progressives Getting Played | Tuesday Night Open Thread >

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    Tuesday Afternoon Open Thread | 85 comments (85 topical)

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    I've got a different song stuck in my head (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by anniethena on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 03:24:25 PM EST
    after catching up on all the bloggers vs. the White House posts.
    The Beach Boys "Wouldn't It Be Nice" , with a small change to the opening lyrics.
    Wouldn't it be nice if He were bolder
    Then we wouldn't have to wait so long...
    (He being Obama)

    This part needs no changing for the true believers though:

    "Maybe if we think and wish and hope and pray it might come true (run, run, run)
    Baby then there wouldn't be a single thing we couldn't do"

    I will be stealing that thought from you (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 03:25:26 PM EST
    probably when this is all "said and done."

    I'll wait for the event though.

    Parent

    from (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by lilburro on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 03:47:29 PM EST
    digby...

    "Not vote for cloture? I wouldn't rule that possibility out -- not at all," said Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.), who caucuses with the Democrats.

    ...

    And, per Huff Po, the WH is consulting (none / 0) (#18)
    by oculus on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 03:53:30 PM EST
    with Lieberman on status of DADT.

    Parent
    How ironic (none / 0) (#20)
    by lilburro on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 03:55:05 PM EST
    since this whole year we were told we couldn't do gay issues because it would hurt healthcare reform.

    Parent
    What's our rank in terms of Health Care? (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by Samuel on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 04:28:25 PM EST
    This article makes a good case for throwing out the WHO analysis...is there something more recent and poignant?  Thanks.  

    I've done my own research on this. (none / 0) (#37)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 04:49:23 PM EST
    In a nutshell, comparing the 'health' of the US against any other country is comparing apples to bricks.

    For one of many examples, one of the main 'numbers' that hurt us in the 'rankings' is our infant mortality rate.

    One of the biggest factors in the infant mortality rate is the mother's obesity.

    Guess what country's got (waaay) more obese moms than any other?

    Guess what won't be affected by an overhaul of our health system?


    Parent

    Check out the linked aritcle if you have not (none / 0) (#40)
    by Samuel on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 04:56:40 PM EST
    It's much much worse than that.  The criteria were:

    1. Health Level: 25 percent
    2. Health Distribution: 25 percent
    3. Responsiveness: 12.5 percent
    4. Responsiveness Distribution: 12.5 percent
    5. Financial Fairness: 25 percent

    Plus, the error terms could actually swing the US over France and Canada.  

    What was the case for government health care if not based on empiricism?  I have yet to here cogent theoretical argument and the "US ranks really poorly next to nations that provide coverage" lie seems to be just that.  

    Parent

    There is a correlation (none / 0) (#44)
    by Steve M on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 05:29:56 PM EST
    but I don't think there is nearly enough data to conclude that "one of the biggest factors" is the mother's obesity.

    There is a natural tendency to want to identify something unrelated to health care, like lifestyle factors, in order to simplify the problem and avoid having to worry about it.  Lifestyle is unquestionably a factor, but it's far from the only consideration.

    All you have to do is compare obesity statistics with infant mortality statistics to see that there's obviously a lot more going on.  If obesity is 10% of the problem, that still leaves 90% we can potentially address - not that quality health care has zero impact on obesity, mind you!

    Parent

    I'm not sure (none / 0) (#52)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 06:20:09 PM EST
    comparing statistics between the US and Sierra Leone is helpful.

    Among the first-world countries that we feel the need to compare ourselves with the US is at the top in both obesity AND infant mortality.

    Obesity has a lot to do with causing the one-two punch of high blood pressure and diabetes.

    HBP and diabetes have a lot to do with the #2 (almost #1) cause of US infant mortality, ie, low birth weight and it's sinister little sister, short gestation.

    If you really want to be honest, black women have by far the highest rates of obesity and infant mortality in the US.

    And the US has by far the highest percentage of black women of any other first world country.

    When I did this analysis, long ago, by adjusting our percentage of blacks to equal the percentage of the first world country with the next-highest % of blacks, our infant mortality rate dropped to the second-best among those first world countries, iirc.

    Regardless, obesity and/or race, is a big determinate factor in the US's infant mortality rates.

    iow, as I said in my first comment, trying to compare the US to other countries is like comparing apples to bricks.

    Parent

    Although gestational diabetes (none / 0) (#54)
    by oculus on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 06:31:35 PM EST
    oftern results in higher-than desirable birth weight and inducing labor to prevent the baby from weighing too much.

    Parent
    Yes, nothing is as simple as it seems... (none / 0) (#56)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 06:34:26 PM EST


    Parent
    ...and by that I mean (none / 0) (#57)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 06:37:46 PM EST
    you can't really compare the health 'score' of the US with other countries...

    Parent
    Curious to see your math n/t (none / 0) (#65)
    by lilburro on Wed Oct 14, 2009 at 09:07:18 AM EST


    Parent
    OK. I just looked back through my comments, (none / 0) (#81)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Oct 14, 2009 at 11:51:21 AM EST
    and found the research I did - way back when.

    Not exactly as I remembered it, but close enough in broad strokes...

    Parent

    Thanks n/t (none / 0) (#84)
    by lilburro on Wed Oct 14, 2009 at 01:01:56 PM EST


    Parent
    I am starting to like (none / 0) (#1)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 03:01:57 PM EST
    Huckelberry against my better judgement:

    'Chill out,' Graham tells critics

    GREENVILLE - An often clamorous crowd blasted, grilled and occasionally cheered Republican U.S. Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., in a town hall meeting Monday that centered on health care reform but returned repeatedly to his positions on climate change, judicial appointees and immigration.

    Graham returned the fire with a grin, at times shouting over his most boisterous critics and telling some who questioned his Christianity and party loyalty that their minority conservative views wouldn't succeed without the political coalitions he said are necessary to serve the majority of Americans and attract enough votes in Congress.

    "If you don't like it, you can leave," he said.

    Some did.
    He has his moments (none / 0) (#5)
    by ruffian on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 03:20:26 PM EST
    Don't worry though, he'll revert to form before the Sunday shows.

    Hey, I watched both 'Delgo' and 'Surveillance' over the weekend. Nice work on Delgo - I liked it a lot, especially the general the look of it and the color palette. That is usually my sticking point with a lot of the animated shows and films. I just don't like to look at them, and I can't get past that and into the story.

    'Surveillance' was a good recommendation too. Loved Ormond and Pullman. Won't say more so as to avoid spoilers, but that was very well done.

    Parent

    hey (none / 0) (#15)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 03:51:29 PM EST
    the lighting crew from Delgo thanks you.
    yeah.  I thought the look and the color pallet was pretty cool.
    a lot of the look was based on the art of a guy named Mobius.

    and yeah about Surveillance.  thats my favorite movie of the year so far.


    Parent

    btw (none / 0) (#27)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 04:30:07 PM EST
    about Jennifer Lynch (Surveillance)
    very excited about her new movie HISSS.
    with Bollywood hottie Mallika Sherawat

    because I like the last one so much and because I have an unnatural attraction for the whole Hindu mythos.
    (I have a 6 foot temple Garuda in my living room who happens to be standing on the head of the vanquished Nag the snake goddess)

    Parent

    Ha! that must be some living room (none / 0) (#30)
    by ruffian on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 04:36:13 PM EST
    I'll check out HISSS...I meant to look for Lynch's next project. She certainly is fearless enough to pull that one off!

    Parent
    heh (none / 0) (#31)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 04:38:53 PM EST
    with the exception of the 6 foot garuda and the 2 foot arowana its pretty normal.

    Parent
    oh (none / 0) (#32)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 04:39:23 PM EST
    and the two framed stuffed giant bird spiders.

    Parent
    Aside from that Mrs. Lincoln (none / 0) (#63)
    by ruffian on Wed Oct 14, 2009 at 08:02:51 AM EST
    how did you like the play?

    Parent
    And is Vishnue standing on Garuda? (none / 0) (#55)
    by oculus on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 06:33:14 PM EST


    Parent
    not on the large one (none / 0) (#64)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Oct 14, 2009 at 08:17:48 AM EST
    I have a small one that does have him on his "mount".

    I was told that the reason he is not on the temple version is because he has to be off dreaming the universe.

    Parent

    According to Wiki, in Hinduism, Garuda is (none / 0) (#68)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 14, 2009 at 10:13:50 AM EST
    the mount for Vishnu; in Buddhism, Garuda is the eternal foe of the Nagas.  Take your pick!

    Parent
    its a pretty funny story (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Oct 14, 2009 at 10:40:50 AM EST
    how I came to have that thing.  I saw a temple Garuda in the 80's when I lived in NY in a gallery and it put the hook in me.  that one was far to expensive for me to afford at the time but I would walk by and visit him on my way to work almost every day.
    flash forward 30 years I am living in LA and I have a couple of asian friends who have an import export business and gallery.  I have bought several small things from them. tribal masks and things like that and one day I am chatting with them and ask if they have ever seen a temple Garuda for sale.  they said they had not but that they were going on a buying trip to Malaysia soon after that and they would keep an eye out for me.  but did not expect to find one since they simply do not get sold very often.
    I said excellent and that I would be willing to spend up to a thousand bucks for something cool.
    the communicated with me a few times over the trip always saying no luck.
    then they told me this story.  they were on their way home.  literally on the way to the airport in Bali and they stopped to eat.  while eating they noticed this fabulous Garuda sitting high on a perch in the restaurant they looked at each other and thought why not ask.  so they asked the little man if it was for sale and the politely said no thank you.  that it was a family heirloom and was not for sale.  a few minutes later the little woman came out and chirped "how much?"
    they never tole me how much they paid for it but I am sure it was almost nothing because they charged me 1200 bucks and told the that was mostly import costs.
    I was thrilled and stunned.  it really is quite unbelievably fabulous.  I can only imagine the thousands of man hours that went into carving and painting it.  I have no idea what it is actually worth but have always thought that if I had the chance I would cart him to Antiques Roadshow and see what they said.
    I would post a pic ( maybe I will anyway ) but its almost impossible to photograph because it is so detailed that to see the detail you have to be so close you cant tell what you are looking at and if you back up to see the whole thing you cant see any of the insane detail.
    anyway, he has been my most prized possession and had guarded my living room and scared the hell out of people ever since.


    Parent
    That is a great story. Would love to see (none / 0) (#71)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 14, 2009 at 10:54:29 AM EST
    a pic--maybe one of the whole Garuda and one of a some of the detail?  

    Parent
    sure. will do (none / 0) (#73)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Oct 14, 2009 at 11:02:35 AM EST
    I did have an asian studies professor visit once who told me that at the very least I should arrange on my death for it to go to a museum and avoid it ending up in some relatives basement or garage.
    since it almost certainly would not end up in their living room.

    so I am trying to do that.


    Parent

    Ha. "Where did you get that horrible (none / 0) (#74)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 14, 2009 at 11:04:01 AM EST
    thing."  A distant relative.

    Parent
    a gay (none / 0) (#75)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Oct 14, 2009 at 11:19:38 AM EST
    uncle

    Parent
    Did you see Boehner's comments on hate (none / 0) (#78)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 14, 2009 at 11:39:36 AM EST
    crime legislation:  sexual orientation is a choice; religion isn't.  

    Parent
    I always wonder if (none / 0) (#79)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Oct 14, 2009 at 11:41:24 AM EST
    these guys are so sure its a choice because they have made it.

    Parent
    I was looking on google (none / 0) (#76)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Oct 14, 2009 at 11:24:45 AM EST
    and I found one very very similar to mine.  except where this one has orange skin mine has white skin.
    but other than that very similar.

    Parent
    Wonderful. Do you let the kids come and (none / 0) (#77)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 14, 2009 at 11:38:23 AM EST
    see Garuda on Halloween?

    Parent
    heh (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Oct 14, 2009 at 11:41:42 AM EST
    when I want them to never come back.

    Parent
    well (none / 0) (#69)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Oct 14, 2009 at 10:24:19 AM EST
    admittedly I am a dabbler but I was pretty sure Garuda is also the eternal foe of the Nagas in Hinduism as well as playing Trigger to Vishnus Roy Rodgers.

    In the Sanskrit literature, Garuda is a son of Kasyapa. Legends says that Kasyapa was a powerful sage. He had many wives, two were his favorites. These two were sisters, Vinata and Kadru respectively. Kadru request a blessing from her husband that she should have a large number of children, eventually she gave birth to 1,000 Naga sepents. The Nagas chose to live underworld in the ocean depth. Vinata requested from her husband that she should have only two sons and should be more powerful than the children of Kadru. In time, she laid 2 eggs. Vinata waited for 500 years, but the eggs showed no sign of change. Vinata grew impatient to know what's inside and broke one of the eggs herself.

    Vinata's second egg finally hatched 500 years later, and out came Garuda.

    He fought a troop of gods led by God Indra. But Garuda's too powerful, even the lighting bolt, the most powerful weapon of Lord Indra, was broken. Garuda eventaully obtained the elixir of immortal. The fight's intervened by the great God Vishnu (Narayana). The two are very powerful and no one can defeat another. The two then came to terms. Lord Vishnu gave Garuda a boon which made Garuda immortal, and promised him a higher seat than his own. In turn, Garuda agreed to become the vehicle of Vishnu. Garuda planned a trick by asking Lord Vishnu to follow him secretly and take away the elixir after Nagas have released his mother.



    Parent
    There is a reason Vishnu rides around on (none / 0) (#72)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 14, 2009 at 11:00:25 AM EST
    Garuda  Powerful steed. I love the "churning of the river of milk" story, which is illustrated at Angkor Wat.

    Parent
    Senate panel OKs middle-of-the-road health plan (none / 0) (#2)
    by SOS on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 03:13:43 PM EST
    The congressional bills would require all Americans to get health insurance, either through an employer, through a government program or on their own. Tax credits would be offered for many of those who buy their own coverage but failure to comply could result in a fine. (Catch 22)

    Josh and I are off to physical therapy (none / 0) (#3)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 03:15:15 PM EST
    I'm so pleased with his new P.T.  His feet are doing much better.  She has turned around some of the mobility he was losing.  I think between her and Shriners (We leave in two days) they will have his feet back on track in no time.  AND...get this...Tricare approved 25 visits for him.  I have never ever ever ever ever ever seen this number of physical therapy visits approved for an extremely handicapped child from Tricare.  You get 10, and then you have to be evaluated and wait to get approved again, and again, and again.  It's either a miracle or some insurance company has become scared of some immediate present danger...that could soon come to pass away leaving them ungored if they are very friendly people right now.  It makes me so pissed though.  They have put everyone through how much hell in the past trying to get services for their insured children?

    Great to hear (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by ruffian on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 03:22:54 PM EST
    Glad Tricare is coming through for you and Josh.

    Parent
    Interesting. The "Girl" is an actual (none / 0) (#4)
    by oculus on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 03:16:30 PM EST
    person and she became a celebrity because of this song about her.

    But why did I open link? (none / 0) (#33)
    by oculus on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 04:40:32 PM EST
    Da da da da

    Parent
    I wish someone would explain to me (none / 0) (#9)
    by s5 on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 03:34:58 PM EST
    why the health care bill coming out of the Finance Committee is treated as more important than the health care bill coming out of the HELP Committee. Am I missing something? Shouldn't we care more about a health care bill coming out of the committee with "health" in its name?

    Because President Snowe voted for it (none / 0) (#48)
    by MO Blue on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 06:08:43 PM EST
    Guess who will be included in the Senate's conference to merge the two bills?

    Jim Manley, a spokesman for Mr. Reid, said that Senator Olympia J. Snowe of Maine, the lone Republican on the Finance Committee to vote in favor of the bill, would be invited to future sessions. And Mr. Manley said the Democratic leader was prepared to go to substantial lengths to keep Ms. Snowe's support.

    "He is prepared to do what he can to keep her on board while putting together a bill that can get the 60 votes necessary to overcome a Republican filibuster," Mr. Manley said. link

    With a Dem in the WH, a majority in both the Senate and the House, the most important person in drafting legislation is a Republican.

    Parent

    Are you f**king kidding me??? (none / 0) (#58)
    by Anne on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 07:21:49 PM EST
    This may be the over-the-top moment for me; un-freakin'-believable and tragically comic lack of leadership.

    Maybe Reid should invite his good friend Joe Lieberman, too - I'm sure he's just chock full of good ideas.

    [rolling eyes/making gagging noises]

    Parent

    We move closer to BaucusCare which could (none / 0) (#59)
    by MO Blue on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 07:37:30 PM EST
    be made even  worse if President Snowe's other ideas are included.

    Snowe opposes a real employer mandate, and instead favors a disastrously stupid "free rider" provision. It could have serious consequences for low-income workers.

    She is against giving the exchanges the power to negotiate with private insurance companies. This is a provision that should help keep down the cost of health care. It would save individuals money and the government money. Snowe fears it is too much government involvement. John Kingsdale, who runs Massachusetts's exchange, called Snowe's insistence that the exchanges not have the power to negotiate price with insurance companies a recipe for disaster.

    Just today, during the committee hearing, she reaffirmed her support for "national plans." This would allow health insurance companies to sell national plans in any states. Individuals state would lose the power to regulate these insurance plans sold in their states. The national plans would be exempt from all minimum benefit requirements mandated by the state legislature. This has been for a long time one of the top goals of the for-profit health insurance industry. link

    If BaucusCare becomes the final legislation, I would cheer Lieberman on if he choses to filibuster.


    Parent

    Holy Mother of God. (none / 0) (#60)
    by Anne on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 07:50:55 PM EST
    We are ceding reform to someone who doesn't know her a$$ from a hole in the ground, and sadly she is not alone in that disability.

    This is just unacceptable.

    Parent

    This is great... (none / 0) (#10)
    by NJDem on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 03:36:00 PM EST
    CNN (et al) deserve every bit of ridicule--long, but I think worth it:

    The Daily Show's "CNN Leaves It There"

    Eagerly awaiting (none / 0) (#11)
    by lilburro on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 03:36:03 PM EST
    the Rose Garden remarks.

    Majority Leader Limbaugh (none / 0) (#12)
    by ruffian on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 03:38:13 PM EST
    disagrees with President Snowe...and i think we all know what that means.

    Star Jones says Polanski was allowed to (none / 0) (#13)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 03:42:47 PM EST
    frolic in France for 30 years because he's a white boy.

    I wonder why (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 03:52:20 PM EST
    she thinks OJ got away with it.

    Parent
    OJ did get away with it. (none / 0) (#19)
    by jbindc on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 03:54:44 PM EST


    Parent
    duh (none / 0) (#21)
    by CST on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 04:04:08 PM EST
    clearly OJ was innocent :)

    Parent
    Correct. As you would realize if you read ... (none / 0) (#51)
    by cymro on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 06:15:37 PM EST
    ... this book: OJ Is Guilty, But Not of Murder. It explains everything.

    Parent
    "Three hots and a cot." Good one. (none / 0) (#17)
    by oculus on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 03:52:48 PM EST
    I think wealth is the decisive factor, plus Polish and French passports.

    Parent
    I wonder what BTD thinks... (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 04:24:46 PM EST


    Parent
    best quote (none / 0) (#29)
    by Fabian on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 04:31:42 PM EST
    "...I think it's a class and a privilege thing," Jones said

    No kidding.  Ask Gates.

    If I had to to pick two of three, out of race, class and privilege - I'd always go with class and privilege.

    Parent

    Then she knows nothing about France (none / 0) (#34)
    by Inspector Gadget on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 04:40:50 PM EST
    or, does she think that was why the US didn't get aggressive about getting him back here?

    Parent
    Don't try to find logic in her comments. (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 04:50:17 PM EST


    Parent
    Leave Eugene Robinson alone: (none / 0) (#22)
    by oculus on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 04:08:16 PM EST
    TL sidebar link

    Some fun poll numbers (none / 0) (#23)
    by jbindc on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 04:19:22 PM EST
    Here

    New Jersey elections

    And Virginia here.

    NJ is pretty much exactly tied (none / 0) (#25)
    by andgarden on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 04:25:11 PM EST
    RCP leaves out today's PPP.

    Parent
    Comments by Robert Reich on health care (none / 0) (#28)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 04:30:56 PM EST
    Summary:

    -Young people should pay more

    -Healthy people should pay more

    -Old people should just die- they're "too expensive"

    -There should be "less innovation" in medical technology

    -You should not expect to live longer than your parents.

    I can agree (none / 0) (#35)
    by Fabian on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 04:47:04 PM EST
    with less innovation in medical technology.

    If we did a better job of applying the technology we have, we could make significant improvements in care and cuts costs without developing new toys to play with.

    OTOH - that does NOT mean that we shouldn't do medical research.  We most definitely should, especially genetic research.  This dkos diarist has found out she has a genetic defect.  The implications of her defect are profound and significant.  

    Firstly, she has few blood relatives because her defect causes fatal dysfunctions.  So understanding her genetic legacy is literally a matter of life and death.

    Secondly, what works for her to control her health problems (hypertension and obesity) would be dangerous to anyone without her problem.  What works for us to control her problems are ineffective for her.

    She requires no innovative medical technology at all to deal with her health problems.  Most of us are the same way.  We just need to find out what works, and what doesn't - without the frustration and waste of trial and error.

    Parent

    I have new plasrtic lenses (none / 0) (#41)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 05:09:16 PM EST

    and I can see clearly again, and without glasses to boot!  This added at least a decade of productivity.  

    Medical technology is not "toys."  This was a miracle.

    My mother=in-law's hip replacement changed her life.  

    Parent

    Yep. (none / 0) (#42)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 05:11:46 PM EST
    My 85 y/o dad just had a disk replaced in his neck. Granted, the nerve that old disk was 'pinching' was just one in a looong list of infirmities...

    Parent
    The hip is old tech. (none / 0) (#62)
    by Fabian on Wed Oct 14, 2009 at 04:47:15 AM EST
    Not sure about the lenses.

    They replaced my grandmother's knees and she's been dead for over twenty years - joint replacement is NOT cutting edge tech.  

    Parent

    It was at one time (none / 0) (#66)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Wed Oct 14, 2009 at 09:13:48 AM EST

    Slowing the cure for cancer may be good for pols that would rather spend the money on other priorities, but not for the rest of us.

    Parent
    I'm not talking about (none / 0) (#83)
    by Fabian on Wed Oct 14, 2009 at 12:56:43 PM EST
    the euphemistic "Cure For Cancer" (which doesn't exist!), I'm talking about chasing every shiny piece of tech that has unclear benefits and often exorbitant costs.

    Something like an MRI, used wisely, has enormous benefits.  I had two relatives who had cancer in the age of explorative surgery.  "Hey, we think you have cancer so we are going to cut you open to take a look around!".  A set of MRIs to take a look inside is both cheaper and better for the patient.  Ordering an MRI for anything and everything is ridiculous however.

    Parent

    Ordering an MRI for everything is ridiculous (none / 0) (#85)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Wed Oct 14, 2009 at 06:57:24 PM EST

    No doubt about it.  However that is no reason to have the invention of the MRI delayed.  

    Parent
    Hint - they didn't create (none / 0) (#86)
    by Fabian on Thu Oct 15, 2009 at 04:13:56 AM EST
    the MRI for medical purposes.

    The MRI was used for scientific research long before they tried using it on living bodies.  The tech has been around for a very long time.

    Again - a general purpose tech used appropriately.

    Genetics - a general purpose tech.  Doesn't take anything that we don't already have.  If we apply it, we could determine the best therapies and courses of treatment for patients instead of crossing our fingers and hoping.  

    OTOH - it could make pharmacology research hell.  The point of trials is to pick a homogeneous group to test.  With targeted genetic analysis, it may turn out that there is no such thing.  

    They created genetically pure lab mice for a reason....uniform test subjects, uniform results.

    Parent

    true (none / 0) (#67)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Oct 14, 2009 at 09:24:44 AM EST
    my dog has an artificial hip.
    it wasnt even that expensive.


    Parent
    Now I'm jealous! (none / 0) (#82)
    by Fabian on Wed Oct 14, 2009 at 12:48:59 PM EST
    ;-)

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    This doesn't sound like Robert Reich (none / 0) (#61)
    by sallywally on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 08:57:24 PM EST
    is it his description of Baucuscare?

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    Can you believe ... (none / 0) (#39)
    by scribe on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 04:51:36 PM EST
    it's been five years - five whole years today! - since the world became aware that Bill O'Reilly had uses for loofahs and falafels which were ... other than those God intended for them?  

    Nice to note that Andrea Mackris now does some work for Planned Parenthood.  Guy who hates abortions settles harassment suit by paying you, you work to make sure women can get abortions.

    Rockefeller on MSNBC now (none / 0) (#43)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 05:12:38 PM EST
    is delighted and smiling and nearly giddy.  Sez he to Ed Schultz, "If you think there isn't going to be a public option in the final bill, you need to go back to radio."

    Jay sez energetically that Obama wants a PO and the final bill will definitely have one. (He's met with the O pretty recently.)  Jay says he's also to be a member of the House/Senate conference committee.

    Finally, he's really excited about the insurance industry opposition, says it puts the nail in the coffin, or words to that effect, and has energized a lot of Dems in his direction.

    I'm dubious about Rockefeller's abilities as a political analyst and prognosticator, but it was surprising and encouraging to see him so animated about all this.

    Yeah, (none / 0) (#45)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 05:54:50 PM EST
    well, I'm sure he's being honest with the way he feels but he should have realized by now that Obama saying he wants a public option means nothing. I'm sure he told Rockefeller that just like he probably told Snowe her triggers were a better idea.

    Of course, it could mean that triggers are really the public option.

    Frankly, I will be surprised if any kind of decent bill comes out of the Senate. On things like the stimulus he has been willing to compromise everything away.

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    Rockefeller talked to the wrong president (none / 0) (#49)
    by MO Blue on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 06:11:52 PM EST
    Reid says he will do whatever it takes to keep President Snowe on board.

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    Colorado (none / 0) (#46)
    by jbindc on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 05:57:11 PM EST
    is reducing its minimum wage as its cost of lving drops.

    Now, it will only be $0.03 / hour (to match the federal level), but it's still not a good trend.

    Huff Po headline: "Snowe Melts." (none / 0) (#47)
    by oculus on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 06:01:47 PM EST


    No, Snowe rules the Senate conference (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by MO Blue on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 06:13:17 PM EST
    committee.

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    I would say that (5.00 / 2) (#53)
    by Spamlet on Tue Oct 13, 2009 at 06:30:02 PM EST
    Snowe blows.

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    Tuesday Afternoon Open Thread | 85 comments (85 topical)

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