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Will Obama Deliver A Public Option?

Not sure if John Cole is predicting he will, but it seems that way:

So let’s see how this plays out. By the end of the day, everyone throw eggs at the Administration [for allegedly walking away from the public option], and particularly blame it on Rahm (he is evil, dontcha know!). Maybe we can join with the Republicans and chant “just words” and write long posts claiming Obama is selling us out. Then, tomorrow, when the administration says that they still strongly support a public option [. . .]

(Emphasis supplied.) It's a weird thought from Cole - that Republicans will protest Obama giving up on the public option. More . . .

As for the "selling out," well, at least for me, I've been pretty clear that I think Obama is pretty indifferent on the public option - if it is in, he'll be happy. If not, he'll live with it. Pols are pols and do what they do.

With that in mind, the idea to me is to make it difficult for all of the Village (including the President) to not have a public option. I really do not get why folks like Cole (not trying to start a fight here, just wondering) get bent out of shape at people fighting for a policy they believe in. Some people do not think it is important (Ezra, Jon Cohn, Yglesias, Drum, Cole?) Some do. What's the problem with folks arguing for what they believe in? I do not get the anger against people fighting for what they believe in.

Speaking for me only

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    Well (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 08:25:42 AM EST
    perhaps the larger problem is the shift shaping blob that Obama has been and is. People see him "supporting" something and then when it doesnt happen they are angry.

    When you are clear and direct and what you want there probably would be a lot less anger. Oh, and someone who was willing to stand and fight for what they said they wanted.

    Meh (5.00 / 5) (#2)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 08:32:33 AM EST
    Pols are pols.

    The point I am trying to make is Obama (like all pols) is just a vessel, and he needs pressure just like any other pol.

    I repeat my refrain - why does no one defend and gnash their teeth at criticisms of Harry Reid? Why is criticisms of President Obama the thing that sets them off?


    Parent

    I hope the time never comes (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 08:41:47 AM EST
    when I have to pick sides between the Obots and the Oathtakers.

    Parent
    You want (none / 0) (#21)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 10:53:23 AM EST
    to know what I think? I think they have truly internalized the belief that criticizing Obama is racist. So they'll dance around and cricize and blame everyone else--rahm, reid, whomever but never go directly to the heart of the problem. Anyway, that's the only theory I've been able to come up with. Maybe someone else has a better one. Or perhaps they truly do have the cult mentality where you can't criticize the leader?

    Parent
    These are not mutually exclusive (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by lambert on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 11:09:52 AM EST
    If I had to theorize, the reasons for not criticizing Obama would be:

    1. access;

    2. access;

    3. access;

    Followed in no particular order by:

    • Authoritarian followership/team play/wannabe insiderism

    • Belief that criticizing Obama is racist

    • Belief in the incremental approach


    Parent
    I am heartily sick of all the analysis (none / 0) (#23)
    by oculus on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 11:09:40 AM EST
    of what Obama really thinks, plans for, what makes him tick, etc.  So "meh," pols are pols and do what they do" rings true to me today.

    Parent
    DLC Democrats (none / 0) (#33)
    by NealB on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 11:54:59 AM EST
    The ones that defend Obama the most seem to be the ones that like the small-change results he delivers. Reminds me a lot of how it worked during the 90s when the DLC (Democratic Leadership Council) was ascendant. They're split now (e.g. Schumer), but there's a lot of that same style of divisive politics being played by conservative Democrats.

    Parent
    Because (none / 0) (#41)
    by kmblue on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 12:49:08 PM EST
    Obots are Obots and do what they do!

    Parent
    Exactly (none / 0) (#48)
    by smott on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 02:39:01 PM EST
    They're Obots.

    The cult of Obama's personality is now being challenged daily by reality. Of course it's going to set them off.

    BTD I have to think you're being a little coy with us when you say you really don't get why there's only wailing/gnashing over Obama as opposed to Reid...

    Parent

    Although I repeatedly (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by lilburro on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 08:34:21 AM EST
    have argued against Booman and Cole and others who believe Obama has "got this," I no longer feel as compelled to do so....because their confidence in secret executive strategies seems so absurd.

    All you have to do is read this article.  Or search for the phrase "public option" in the weekly address of this past weekend.

    The least you can do is say well, Obama is proving FDR's maxim "now make me do it" is still relevant.  Except Cole and Booman don't even believe that.

    I really think the FDR maxim (none / 0) (#4)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 08:41:24 AM EST
    is apocryphal personally, though of course useful.

    FDR, for better or worse, acted on what he thought was best and rammed it through. Of course he could but the point is he did.

    There was not much need to "make FDR do it."

    Parent

    I was just thinking along the same lines (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by ruffian on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 11:22:33 AM EST
    For every thing someone had to 'make him' do, he did 10 on his own. I don't think that anecdote was at all indicative of his general philosophy.

    Parent
    I think it helped (none / 0) (#10)
    by andgarden on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 09:05:17 AM EST
    to have a Huey Long in the wings.

    Parent
    In this case (none / 0) (#13)
    by lilburro on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 09:17:33 AM EST
    it would probably be more useful if we said Reagan said it.

    Parent
    How many tomorrows past and future? (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by Addison on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 08:42:49 AM EST
    Hmmm...

    Maybe we can join with the Republicans and chant "just words" and write long posts claiming Obama is selling us out. Then, tomorrow, when the administration says that they still strongly support a public option, we can all pat ourselves on the back and say "See, they listened! Keep the pressure up, guys!"

    ...does Cole take into account how many "tomorrows" have already gone by without such a statement from the Obama administration, and just how few "tomorrows" there are left for such a statement to have any impact at all?

    I don't think so. This is thinking seemingly unaffected by immediate experience or any sense of urgency.

    It's almost a conspiracy theory at this point. (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by Addison on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 08:51:41 AM EST
    I do not get the anger against people fighting for what they believe in.

    It's a steadfast belief that you're mucking up the secret plan, which no one knows about, seems detached from the legislative process, and is accepted on faith despite evidence to the contrary (most all statements: anonymous, leaked, or otherwise, from the WH). It's almost a conspiracy theory at this point that Obama is pushing for a public option.

    There's a kid in the rain after soccer practice. It starts thundering and lightning out. The kid says their parent is coming to get them, but it's been an hour since soccer practice ended. So you offer the kid a ride home or at least give the kid bus fare. You're messing up that kid's parent's plan. And some dude on the street thinks you ought to not do that, because when the parent finally shows up WON'T YOU FEEL STUPID!?!

    Uh? No.

    Nothing new here (5.00 / 4) (#8)
    by MO Blue on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 08:57:26 AM EST
    Cole is just stating that if you don't 100% support Obama's actions and policies, no matter how bad, you are a Republican.

    Three responses are acceptable.

    1. Do a 180 and decide that Obama's policy is the right one and you were wrong.

    2. Blame it on someone else. Obama had no power to positively affect the outcome.

    3. Accept that Obama is blameless. It is really you who failed. You did not work hard enough to make sure good policy was adopted.


    Just an authoritarian follower... (none / 0) (#14)
    by lambert on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 09:21:31 AM EST
    ... following a different authority. Go team!!!!!

    Parent
    Your response number 3 is (none / 0) (#37)
    by prittfumes on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 12:10:35 PM EST
    Priceless!!

    Parent
    #3 was an actual response to (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by MO Blue on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 12:48:55 PM EST
    a post titled "Obama chooses which campaign promises to break" over at MyDD  

    I would like to hear from all the people on this thread who are whining that we aren't getting what we want.  I want to know how hard you personally have worked/are working to help pass a healthcare reform bill with a robust public option.  Letters, faxes, emails, letters to the editor, houseparties?

    President Obama told us during his campaign that together WE could achieve our goals.  He never said "I" will do this or that, it was always "we".  If we aren't getting what we want, then we aren't working hard enough.

    The first paragraph would be a very legitimate point if people were not advocating for a public option or if the polls were showing no support for it. The second is as you say

    Priceless!!
     

    Parent
    But, but (none / 0) (#42)
    by Inspector Gadget on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 12:51:41 PM EST
    Wasn't Obama going to make sure a Teddy Kennedy level health care plan would be his tribute to his exceptionally close friend?

    Parent
    I am so sick (5.00 / 3) (#9)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 08:58:36 AM EST
    of ignorant "pundits" getting on my arse about fighting for what I need.  Things are such a mess too right now it isn't just needs.....we must have certain things DONE, period!  If nobody had thrown any eggs we wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell of having a public option.  They weren't just going to get it for us or give it to us because that was the right thing to do.  And Washington D.C. is miles and miles and miles away from making any decisions or passing any legislation these days because it is the right thing to do.  They all owe too many people to do anything anymore because it is the right thing to do.  So such pundits who hope to make me feel bad because I fight for what my children need can never have my permission to ever get on my arse but I hope they know they are free to kiss it.

    Simple answers to simple questions (5.00 / 2) (#22)
    by lambert on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 11:04:30 AM EST
    "Will Obama Deliver A Public Option?"

    No.

    Parent

    That's right (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 11:21:03 AM EST
    He has said he will not deliver it.  If it shows up he's okay with it but he will not sign on to deliver us anything.

    Parent
    More than likely, (none / 0) (#25)
    by MO Blue on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 11:20:52 AM EST
    President Snowe will deliver a trigger.

    Parent
    Lather, rinse, repeat. (5.00 / 6) (#11)
    by Anne on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 09:14:24 AM EST
    For nine months now, this is what's been happening:  

    Obama mouths some platitudes to appease the icky liberals, and reminds them that if they really, really, REALLY want something, they have to make him do it.  After nine months, someone needs to remind him that FDR did not say, "Uh...you can't make me."

    Furious whipping ensues, wherein all the best progressives mount campaigns to put the pressure on.

    Just at the point when noises start to be made about actually doing what the blogs and political action groups and independently-acting citizens have been clamoring for, anonymous sources smell trouble and begin leaking little tidbits that strike fear into the progressives' hearts: maybe Obama isn't so into the public option, maybe he hearts Olympia Snow so, so much that he might have to break up with the progressives.  Maybe Harry Reid won't even put the public option in the combined Senate bill.

    Anger erupts in the blogosphere.  Meanwhile, e-mails are sent and snail-mail solicitations land in mail boxes, and phone calls are made that ask people to give money so Obama can fight the mean insurance companies to pass health care reform.

    Is anything actually being accomplished here?  Or are we all just dancing as fast as we can to a tune being played by the Obama Philarmonic Orchestra?

    I'm tired of being jerked around by these people; they will do what they do, and I doubt if it will have a whole lot to do with us.

    "The Obama Philarmonic Orchestra" ;-) (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by lambert on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 09:30:42 AM EST
    Sure is a "change" from The Mighty Wurlitzer! Or not.

    +100 on the email solicitation; we're not looking at activism, here; we're looking at a business model. Single payer advocates ask for money to make bail. "Progressives" ask for money to buy ads in The Hill and Roll Call.

     Look, I already got my Obama commemorative plate. What more do these people want?

    Parent

    Not much of a change (none / 0) (#20)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 09:56:10 AM EST
    I do wish that someone would stand up though and declare themselves the "Decider".  I don't care how stupid they look calling themselves that either.  I'm fine with it.  I won't be shocked the second time :)  Can I get Obama's I.Q. attached to a "Decider" please?

    Parent
    What is Obama's IQ? (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by Inspector Gadget on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 12:54:40 PM EST
    I'd guess it to be around 115-120. Both of my kids test in the 140-150 range, and he doesn't come close to showing the mental abilities of either of them.

    Parent
    It will only have anything to do with us if they (none / 0) (#16)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 09:26:01 AM EST
    fear us.

    Parent
    On the Sabbath Day Gasbags... (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by lambert on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 09:22:26 AM EST
    I guess they haven't raised enough (5.00 / 2) (#17)
    by Anne on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 09:26:09 AM EST
    money yet, so have to once again tap into people's fear in order to tap into their wallets.

    Parent
    They are tapping multiple spickets (none / 0) (#19)
    by MO Blue on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 09:44:22 AM EST
    Tapping into people who care about health care and tapping into the industries that want a giant give away program. He with the most money wins.

    And the winner is?

     

    Parent

    With some things Cole hammers (5.00 / 2) (#36)
    by mentaldebris on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 12:08:15 PM EST
    the nail on the head and on other things he throws the hammer in a huff. I consider this and another post this morning indicative of his hammer throwing moments. He seems to be in a little snit today about pushbacks. Ironic stuff, coming from an ex-Bush (twice!) supporter.

    I'm with the Scream Louder (opposite of Clap Louder) Squeaky Wheel school of thought. Obama certainly doesn't need more defenders.

    What Digby said (5.00 / 2) (#50)
    by ruffian on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 04:14:44 PM EST
    Are congresscritters starting to realize the folly of having a mandate with no public option?

    Better just-in-time than never.

    One thing they have is (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by NYShooter on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 04:35:03 PM EST
    a nose for re-election. It may have finally dawned on them how the media will play, "forcing" millions of people who don't want and/or can't afford it to buy, (even subsidized) insurance, further enriching the company executives.

    I can see the ads now...Nancy Pelosi, decked out in stiletto boots, pearls, and an evil/wicked smile, cracking the bullwhip, "fine the peasants...crack!"

    Republican landslide...


    Parent

    We can only hope that they will (none / 0) (#53)
    by MO Blue on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 05:15:35 PM EST
    finally realize what has been so apparent to most of us for months.

    Parent
    Ain't that the truth,,, (none / 0) (#54)
    by NYShooter on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 06:39:41 PM EST
    too sad.

    Parent
    What I find ironic (none / 0) (#12)
    by MO Blue on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 09:15:46 AM EST
    is that an ex-Republican, who walked in lock step with his party, is lecturing Democrats on what is appropriate action.

    Maybe if he had been more proactive in holding Republican politician's feet to the fire more often, they might not have gotten so crazy that he had to leave the party.

    Guess what (none / 0) (#28)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 11:27:30 AM EST
    In talking with my husband we have decided that doing things now that would prevent Joshua's ankles being torn up should be employed to buy us time.  I began checking into Segways because there is a gentleman in San Antonio who we often see when downtown who has a handicap modified Segway and once you know how to use one he says that it is amazing how much you can maneuver one.  Joshua has very poor upper body strength and will have to have something powered.  Segways for the handicapped though essentially went no place because insurance companies would not agree to pay for one, even though a powered wheelchair costs about the same.  They fought it so much that Segway had to end production of the iBot, the Segway wheelchair.

    Good luck on (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by MO Blue on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 11:35:41 AM EST
    helping Joshua find ways of being mobile while taking the stress off his ankles.

    If you get him a modified Segway, be sure to tell him not to do a Bush imitation.  

    Parent

    You will laugh (5.00 / 3) (#30)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 11:39:26 AM EST
    But he was sort of afraid of getting one because the President did manage to fall off of one.  I explained to Joshua that it is literally impossible to fall off of a Segway, he is still a bit skeptical to date :)

    Parent
    Smart kid. Trust, but verify. (5.00 / 2) (#31)
    by oculus on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 11:49:35 AM EST
    Harness train one of your dogs (5.00 / 2) (#32)
    by nycstray on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 11:53:35 AM EST
    and get a cart :) You could also train the pup as a stability/movement partner . . .

    It seems I saw a story on 60mins or some show like it about vets and Segways. That might inspire more confidence in your son than our former pres. Remind him that that dude had trouble staying on bikes also ;)

    Parent

    And sofas. (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by oculus on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 12:02:15 PM EST
    Yet, Medicare happily (none / 0) (#35)
    by Inspector Gadget on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 12:05:02 PM EST
    pays for Scooterchairs for the elderly. I can see the appeal for private over gov't run health care, can't you? :)

    Parent
    In this instance (none / 0) (#38)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 12:43:07 PM EST
    I do wonder if we were single payer if the iBot would have been cancelled.  It is a superior technology for some people needing assistance.  It could climb stairs for some people who had the upper body strength.  If we were single payer though, wouldn't the people have demanded that the opportunity be developed?  And last but not least, are there any kickbacks going to government programs and insurance companies for the motorized systems they are willing to pay for?

    Parent
    Not sure about kickbacks, but (none / 0) (#39)
    by Inspector Gadget on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 12:47:50 PM EST
    what I saw with Medicare for my mom was that it was a system that trusted the doctors to make health decisions and just paid for them with no bolts of red tape to go through.

    How severe is the cost of the Segway? Port police use them at the airport here.

    Parent

    I'm waiting for a call back from them (none / 0) (#44)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 01:09:21 PM EST
    on pricing and possible models.  So the finer details I'm not aware of yet.  I do know that a motorized medical grade wheelchair is anywhere from $4,000 to $7,500.  Looks like Segways are coming in at $5,000 to $6,000.  And for many handicapped they are a superior choice.  I did see that the handicapped Vets from Iraq and Afghanistan are fighting to have easy access to a Segway option.

    Parent
    Ha at myself too! (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 01:13:36 PM EST
    When it comes to my kids, I figure out what we need.  I put that goal out there first and then all my efforts are toward attaining that goal.  I don't know at this time if Tricare will agree to this.  And from my past experience that is the worst question I could ask them today.  First I figure out what I need.  Then I figure out how they are going to give me that.  I cannot think this way though when it comes to "political bargaining".  How funny!

    Parent
    These are just the kind of stories (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by Inspector Gadget on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 02:14:54 PM EST
    that go on "Problem Solvers" at our local news channels. One of several things generally result: 1. The insurance company is embarrassed into paying, 2. Local listeners band together to help, 3. The manufacturer finds a way to bolster their image, or 4. Someone who has the same item but no longer needs it passes it along.

    I don't doubt for one second, Tracy, that you will end up with exactly what is right for Josh in this. :)

    Parent

    If Tricare won't help pay for it, (none / 0) (#46)
    by MO Blue on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 01:23:30 PM EST
    try negotiating the price down with the BigWigs at Segway. Tell them that your husband is active military and that Josh could help increase demand from handicapped Vets from Iraq and Afghanistan for their product.

    IOW when they see how well it works for a child, they will want it to.

    Parent

    Tricare will help (none / 0) (#56)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 20, 2009 at 02:30:07 PM EST
    You just watch.  I wrote a paper about how much I was going to charge them once without something I wanted....I got what I was asking for.  I had made the other options freely available to me on their mealticket without much they could say add up to a dollar sign that was very unappealing.

    Parent
    Conspiracy time (none / 0) (#49)
    by NYShooter on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 03:18:16 PM EST
    Obama seems to be preoccupied by something other than "Health Care," and that would be: The Economy and Afghanistan. On a scale from 1 to 10, The Economy is #1, Afghanistan #2, and "Health Care" #5.

    I think The Administration now believe they made a terrible mistake getting into bed with Wall St. a year ago. A growing number of respected economists are saying we may have reached a point of no return; meaning it's too late now to avoid disaster straight ahead.  

    Wall St, with it's insane, immoral grip of avarice has killed the golden goose (the middle class) that has served us so well this past 100 years. The shakeout, or day of reckoning, has just begun. We still don't know what the crap in their portfolios is worth, or where the end-line is regarding derivatives. A year after bailing their sorry a$$es out, they still have the incredible hubris to fight tooth and nail against any return to a sane regulatory/oversight role for Government.

    They have a lot to hide.

    I believe Obama finally get's it.


    You think he gets it? (none / 0) (#51)
    by Inspector Gadget on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 04:19:54 PM EST
    Really?

    He flew to Copenhagen to try to use his celebrity to get the Olympics prize for his developer friends in Chicago.

    Has he even mentioned unemployment lately? The Economy? He is still throwing money around on the things he wants to do, and not skipping vacations.

    Afghanistan? Does he give you the impression his decisions there are more about what's good for the people of the U.S., or how this will play out for his personal political career?

    Parent

    I don't (none / 0) (#55)
    by NYShooter on Mon Oct 19, 2009 at 06:51:46 PM EST
    know that he get's it, or not. However, if the hypothesis laid out by the economists is " baked in the cake," as they say, then the American Titanic has already suffered a mortal gash to it's vital organs. And, assuming Larry Summers has held a meeting with President Obama which began with, "Mr. President, I have some bad news, our assumptions haven`t worked out like we thought they would," then "health care" is the furthest thing from his mind, and he's left with just going through the motions.


    Parent