home

The Blue State Public Option Gains Adherents

Via FDL, more adherents to the Blue State Public Option:

Steps away from the Finance Committee markup, SEIU Chief Andy Stern ducked into a private meeting Thursday with Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.) and Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.).

[. . .] Stern said states should be allowed to opt out of the government plan. "I'm in the fourth way option," Stern said. "If Alabama doesn’t want a public option, they should consider that question. I don’t think the citizens of Alabama will want out. ... I think we need a public option. I don’t think it needs to be triggered. The question is if there are certain state legislators who think it’s not appropriate for their state, they should have a right in some fashion to deal with it.

I think if they tie the individual mandates to acceptance of a public option, this is an acceptable proposal. I also think that with this opt out, the public option must be robust (Medicare +5), Wyden's exchanges should be expanded and eligibility for the public option should also be expanded.

Speaking for me only

< Thursday Night TV and Open Thread | Meanwhile, Back At The Economy: Unemployment Hits 9.8% >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


  • Display: Sort:
    I love this idea (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 08:46:42 AM EST
    It totally dismantles the party of NO's ability to make everyone suffer with them for their rhetorically intelligent stupidity.  Imagine Alabama asking for a public option in such a manner that the whole nation will witness it too.  Sign me up.  I'm for this.

    I think Alabama would opt in (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by jeffinalabama on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 08:53:34 AM EST
    based on general popular support. Don't listen to the senators. governeor Riley took the bailout moneys available in the stimulus. Let Texas and South Carolina opt out, but we have a democratic legislature here.

    Parent
    They take the money (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 09:02:40 AM EST
    but it's all hush hush...and the same old self righteous Republican rhetoric clogs up the airwaves as if we are toughing this out alone with only our hard work.  Who funds the public health programs down here too?  There is one thing that really puzzles me...Alabama HATES it some Planned Parenthood and can't wait to say so, but when my daughter and I were going through those hateful teen years she told me she was taking over her female needs. I told her fine so long as she is getting what she needed.  She and her friends went to the public health clinic here all together.  Exams were given, a giant bag a condoms came home, then birth control pills were given in six month increments.  I can't even get that through my insurance company.  Everything about social programs seems to be on the surface a huge rhetorical farce when it comes to birth control and premarital sex.  The health clinic here gave no abstinence class.  They handed out condoms like the kids were all going to orgies :)

    Parent
    Heh. the health departments (none / 0) (#26)
    by jeffinalabama on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 09:40:39 AM EST
    are not politicized, thank goodness.

    Parent
    Why are they trying to make this (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by Anne on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 10:22:26 AM EST
    so freakin' complicated?  Why did we first have to maintain the employer-based model that handcuffs people to their jobs, and now have to entertain the possibility that where one lives will have something to do with whether there is an alternative for coverage?

    Define the goal and be honest about it.  Is the goal to make sure every American has access to affordable health care or is the goal to make sure every American is paying premiums to an insurance company of some sort?  Have these nitwits stopped to consider what the general state of health care of those over 65 would be if Medicare had been structured the way these contortionist legislators are proposing we reform the system for the rest of us?  Oh, sure, there's Medicaid, which varies from state to state, but that's not the best example, since there are clearly differences in the quality and extent of coverage from state to state, and corresponding differences in the health of those it is serving, with poorer states not funding commensurate with need, and cutting already whittled budgets.

    What do the American people want?  They want to be able to take care of themselves without having to go broke.  Most of them would like to know that no matter where they work, or if they are working, their insurance coverage goes with them.  Everyone I know is hacked off that if their employer offers marginal coverage, they would be prevented from signing on to a better and less expensive plan administered through the government.  They want to stop paying more and getting less.  They want their doctors to decide on the care they need not some clerk in an insurance company office who is getting a bonus based on how much money was saved through denial of care.  They're even more hacked off that so little effort was made to just put together the best plan possible - the dream plan - from Day One, and go with the strength of the majority.  

    I feel like I am watching the "hey, kids - let's put on a show!" portion of an old Judy Garland-Mickey Rooney movie, except it's not Judy and Mickey, it's the losers from the American Idol auditions, and it's so bad we all know it's doomed to fail.

    Being known as the Party That F**ked Up Health Care Reform" is going to be more painful and have far more devastating consequences than any of us can even imagine; it's too bad the pain and the consequence will not be limited to the a$$hats responsible for it.


    Evidently trying to make a silk purse out of (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by MO Blue on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 10:38:48 AM EST
    a sows ear is the goal rather than providing real health care to people who need it. The appearance of doing "something", anything no matter what, is more important than actually providing affordable health care.

    Parent
    Democratic backbone (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by mmc9431 on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 10:47:45 AM EST
    From the sound of this, the P.O. is even sliding in the house.

    "In July, 60 Democrats in the House signed a letter saying they would vote against any bill that does not have a robust public option.  The news broke last night that the number is down to 46.  It takes 39 stop a bill without a public option from passing".

    We're now only 7 away from a total sell out.

    Do you have a list (none / 0) (#39)
    by Cream City on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 11:01:58 AM EST
    or even a link to this?  I've tried to find it.

    If my Congresswoman has, as I feared, fallen off the list, it's time to make a call/spinal implant again.

    Parent

    Sorry (none / 0) (#41)
    by mmc9431 on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 11:07:41 AM EST
    I have never been able to master linking! I'm lucky I can even turn this thing on! But it's on FDL site.

    Parent
    I couldn't find a link on FDL (none / 0) (#46)
    by MO Blue on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 11:30:27 AM EST
    for a list of the 46 still on board. If you found the list and can point the way to the actual words used to describe the link, I will link it for you.

    Parent
    Sorry Again! (none / 0) (#49)
    by mmc9431 on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 11:44:19 AM EST
    It was an e-mail I recieved today from FDL. I couldn't find a link other than a petition to sign.

    Parent
    Per update on FDL (none / 0) (#50)
    by MO Blue on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 11:46:03 AM EST
    Update: We are trying to find out the names of the 14 who have defected since they're not named in the Hill article.  Will let everyone know as soon as we do.


    Parent
    Obama and Reid playing (none / 0) (#40)
    by MO Blue on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 11:04:15 AM EST
    "Hot Potato with who will be responsible for there not being a public option in the final Senate bill?

    Obama doesn't want the 10 point hit his poll numbers took when Kathleen Sibelius told the truth and said the public option might go bye-bye. He wants it gone, but doesn't want to be the one to do it.

    ...Harry Reid looked like the man for the job....But he's got an election coming up in 2010, he's losing badly to "generic GOP candidate," and he apparently doesn't want the responsibility of p!ssing off 80% of the Democrats in the country by unilaterally deciding to scrap it from a Senate bill.

    As the Senate majority leader, Harry Reid, Democrat of Nevada, takes on the delicate task of melding two competing versions of major health care legislation, aides say he will lean heavily on President Obama to arbitrate a number of contentious issues that still threaten to divide liberal and centrist Democrats and derail a final bill. FDL


    Parent
    Because we aren't a state here in DC, (none / 0) (#1)
    by inclusiveheart on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 07:31:38 AM EST
    chances are that we will be denied the option.  Just a guess, but that's usually how it works for us.

    Hope not (none / 0) (#2)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 07:33:44 AM EST
    Opt out might be better than opt in (none / 0) (#3)
    by MO Blue on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 08:01:39 AM EST
    Carper's opt in amendment is worse than nothing because it places restrictions on states that do not currently exist.

    The Carper amendment wouldn't permit anything which is not currently allowed but it would impose more stringent requirements.

    The amendment says:

    This would allow a state to offer a state public option; however, both the executive and state legislature would have to agree.

    Most states (I believe every state) allows a law to be passed over the veto of the governor if it can get a super majority in the state legislature.....

    The amendment would place restrictions how the public plan could be run.

    Regardless of the mechanism chosen, the state would be bound by the same insurance regulations and benefit requirements as private plans in the exchange. The mechanism would have to be completely self financed, aside from initial seed funding, and would be required to have a reserve fund in the same manner that private plans have. The mechanism could not explicitly require doctors to participate, nor use provider participation in Medicare or other public programs to force participation. Additionally, the state could not use Medicare or Medicaid style price controls or rates - they would have to negotiate rates.

    If a state started a public plan today, they would not be required to follow all of these restrictions. FDL

    It also would only be open to individuals who were eligible to acquire coverage through the exchange. States currently can set up insurance programs like co-ops and not restrict who may participate.

    Details do matter so I will reserve my judgement on Stein's proposal for when and if it is presented in more detail.

    Opt out is clearly superior (none / 0) (#4)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 08:10:19 AM EST
    Policywise and politically.

    It is harder to get out when you have to do something.

    It is politically clear as well, You have to stand up and say "I do not want this."

    Remember there is money attached to all of this. States will receive money. It is harder to give it back than to not take it.

    Finally, as a real test of the policy, this allows for the best public option, the least costly one, and the most inclusive one.

    It also allows the Blue Dogs to say they saved their states from socialism. So on that score, they have to think up some new excuse for being lackeys for the insurance industry.

    Now, Obama should say this is his plan and we have a deal.

    A very effective camel's nose under the tent.

    Parent

    Politically it is much better (none / 0) (#12)
    by MO Blue on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 08:48:17 AM EST
    I think the states will receive money for expanding Medicaid per legislation guidelines and funds (if state based) to set up their exchange whether or not it has a public option.

    Politically, the risks of opting out would be for limiting choices for their constituents. If the public option succeeds in driving down prices, the politicians who refused the option would be villains. If the public option fails, they would be heros.

    Policy wise, if you define that by how it is actually structured, I'm not sure because I don't know its components. It would depend a lot on whether or not it was a national vs state program allowing opt out, its rate structure, provider lists, and the restrictions on who would be eligible. The smaller the pool size the less likely it will succeed.

    There are a lot of ways Congress can structure it so that it has a chance to succeed. By the same token, it can be structured in such a way that it won't have a chance in hell of competing with the private insurance industry or driving premiums down. A public option that failed would not be a nose of the camel under the tent. It would probably be the equivalent of putting the camel to death.  

    Parent

    You forget the subsidies (none / 0) (#25)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 09:33:17 AM EST
    Which I think are bigger dollars than the Medicaid money.

    Parent
    No I didn't forget the subsidies (none / 0) (#27)
    by MO Blue on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 09:41:39 AM EST
    I think that if this is the way the Senate decides to go that it will be structured so that the exchange will consist of a public option and private insurance options. The subsidies are provided to people within the exchange whether they chose a public option or private insurance option, That is how it has been structured in all the other bills. If a state decides that it does not want a public option in its exchange, the subsidies would IMO still go to the exchange which now only consists of private insurance options.

    Parent
    My point is (none / 0) (#28)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 09:45:51 AM EST
    to change that provision - to wit mandates = subsidies = public option.

    Opt out of the whole thing if you like. But it is all one piece.

    Parent

    Like the idea (none / 0) (#31)
    by MO Blue on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 10:05:45 AM EST
    just don't think that is what will happen. In fact, I think that your proposal has as much chance of happening as Medicare for All.

    Congress would eliminate every good thing in the legislation before it would eliminate the mandates.

    Parent

    Well (none / 0) (#32)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 10:18:36 AM EST
    Think what you like.

    But Medicare for All was never ever in the conversation.

    These proposal ARE in the conversation.

    Parent

    Please show me where in any of the (none / 0) (#34)
    by MO Blue on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 10:33:34 AM EST
    proposals currently in the conversation there is a mention of tying the subsidies to acceptance of the public option in the exchanges or eliminating the mandates and I will concede the point.

    Your idea

    to change that provision - to wit mandates = subsidies = public option
    is not part of the current conversation either.

    Parent
    Of course it is (none / 0) (#38)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 10:57:35 AM EST
    The whole HCR project is going to be opt outable is the idea.

    Parent
    No "Of course it is" (none / 0) (#42)
    by MO Blue on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 11:15:19 AM EST
    when so much is currently undefined. It is your idea but unfortunately the Senate Dems might not share your viewpoint.

    I guess we will see how it finally shakes out sometime in the next couple weeks or months. As it is, we seem to have agreed to disagree.

    Parent

    What is clearly defined is (none / 0) (#55)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 12:39:09 PM EST
    that Medicare For All was NEVER in play, is not in play now and will not be in the near term.

    You are sounding like Lambert now, and in a bad way.

    Parent

    A line in a Carole King's Smackwater Jack (none / 0) (#56)
    by MO Blue on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 01:08:05 PM EST
    comes to mind right now.

    You can't talk to a man
    When he don't wanna understand


    Parent
    Why are you so concerned about ... (none / 0) (#10)
    by cymro on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 08:46:51 AM EST
    "... states that do not currently exist"? I know BTD cares about Puerto Rico, but I havn't seen it mentioned in the context of HCR.

    Parent
    Puerto Rico is in (none / 0) (#11)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 08:47:44 AM EST
    An amendment was offered and accepted including Puerto Rico.

    Parent
    I can't be 100% sure, but I think if that (none / 0) (#18)
    by Anne on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 08:58:17 AM EST
    sentence read,
    Carper's opt in amendment is worse than nothing because restrictions that do not currently exist would be placed on the states
    it would eliminate the perception that the original sentence is referring to states that do not currently exist.

    Parent
    Thanks for the correction. (none / 0) (#19)
    by MO Blue on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 09:00:17 AM EST
    Prohibit? (none / 0) (#43)
    by waldenpond on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 11:16:26 AM EST
    One proposal is to offer Carper's plan of an exchange and it would prohibit a State's right to develop it's own single player plan though I don't know if that is currently in Carper's plan.

    Parent
    More confusing? (none / 0) (#5)
    by mmc9431 on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 08:35:09 AM EST
    My partner processes insurance claim for the unions. At a meeting on HCR they contenced that one of the larger problems was the lack of federal standards in coverage. They contended that more uniformity would be a large step in reducing costs.

    If each state then goes for it's own program and sets it's own guidelines, won't this actually increase the problem?

    Would there be residency requirements? And wouldn't keeping track of who is and who isn't in the program just add more to the confusion?

    You misunderstand the proposal I think (none / 0) (#7)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 08:45:53 AM EST
    There would be one federal program and states would have the option of opting out.

    Parent
    I'm under the impression that (none / 0) (#16)
    by MO Blue on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 08:52:46 AM EST
    their would be minimum coverage requirements set by Congress for the exchanges.

    Parent
    the only way this could be good enough for me (none / 0) (#6)
    by andgarden on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 08:35:40 AM EST
    is if the states are given a strong, almost irresistible, incentive to join. Tying it to highway cash is my preferred method.

    I think tying it to health care money (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 08:46:38 AM EST
    is the way to go. Specifically the subsidies and Medicaid money that goes with the mandates.

    Parent
    That would be a pretty strong incentive (5.00 / 2) (#13)
    by andgarden on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 08:49:32 AM EST
    All states do have a Medicaid program, after all. However, I would really want to make the rules on implementation quite strict. Letting legislatures make useless sweetheart deals with local insurance monopolies to turn over the money for basically no service would be unacceptable.

    Parent
    And Alabama reps will be openly asking for (none / 0) (#14)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 08:51:34 AM EST
    its Medicaid and subsidies money.....the same guys that when cameras are rolling pretend they've been voted into office by a state full of independently wealthy Republicans who all got that way by pulling themselves up by their bootstraps.  Make the poor of Alabama suffer anymore than they already are while the rest of the nation begins to recover from health care insanity...or even the lower middle class for that matter...and see who gets voted back in!  Things could get challenging around here.

    Parent
    Need more coffee! (none / 0) (#15)
    by mmc9431 on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 08:52:38 AM EST
    I think denying states money for the (none / 0) (#21)
    by MO Blue on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 09:03:18 AM EST
    proposed Medicaid expansion if they opt out of a public option, has as much chance of being in the final bill as providing Medicare for All.

    Parent
    But the threat of it (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 09:08:47 AM EST
    Going on the tube and telling people that their state can opt out of the government messing up their healthcare lives if that's what they want...it is a negotiating chip.

    Parent
    Meh (none / 0) (#57)
    by cawaltz on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 01:30:04 PM EST
    You sound as if you believe the TV conglomerates are on the side of the people and will allow the US government to offer up this without making it come off as blackmail. I don't believe that for a minute. Despite the popularity of the public option what we have seen on TV has basically been the tea party folk who oppose it. Why is that? a) because conflict makes good TV and B) because corporate America needs to stick together on their reaming of the American public.

    My feeling on attempting to sell state public plans is its a bad idea on many levels.

    Parent

    The subsidies are the bigger money (none / 0) (#24)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 09:32:04 AM EST
    See comment #27 above. (none / 0) (#29)
    by MO Blue on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 09:47:31 AM EST
    The subsidies are provided to people within the exchange whether they chose a public option or private insurance option in all the bills currently being discussed. Public option or no public option the exchange will contain the subsidies.

    Parent
    See comment 28 below (none / 0) (#30)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 09:48:32 AM EST
    Single Payer Amendments are at the state level too (none / 0) (#23)
    by gtesta on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 09:11:04 AM EST
    Single Payer amendments
    If we do end up going state level for a public option, I hope that we just go right to a single payer.  That's where the real cost savings are.  I wonder if this stands a chance?

    If this is (none / 0) (#44)
    by cawaltz on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 11:21:41 AM EST
    what you all are tying electoral or even political victory to I wish you all luck. Personally I see this as proof that a Democratic majority on a federal level means nothing. It enforces the position that the government is pretty worthless when it comes down to brass tacks, which has been pretty much the GOP position.

    I think it is less (none / 0) (#45)
    by CST on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 11:23:01 AM EST
    about a political victory and more about trying to sneak it in in any way possible, under the assumption that once it's there, more states and people will want it, so it expands.

    Parent
    States are broke (none / 0) (#47)
    by cawaltz on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 11:33:31 AM EST
    it isn't going to matter if they want it since they can't pay for it and aren't allowed to carry a deficit. This idea is likely worse then the 2013 trigger option since unemployment is likely to hinder the economy well into 2013 according projections.

    I can not believe how badly the Dems are fumbling everything. They are making the GOP look like the competent party regarding leadership and that is no easy feat.

    Parent

    not funded by the states (none / 0) (#48)
    by CST on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 11:41:45 AM EST
    still federally funded, just with an "opt out" provision for states who don't want it.

    Parent
    Federal funding (none / 0) (#51)
    by cawaltz on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 11:52:42 AM EST
    There is no way in God's green Earth that politically you can tie giving states money to their decision on whether or not to include a public option which puts us back to square one.

    Parent
    that's what they do (none / 0) (#52)
    by CST on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 11:54:08 AM EST
    for federal highway funds and the drinking age.  It's not unheard of.

    Parent
    I'll look forward to hearing the argument (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by cawaltz on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 12:24:47 PM EST
    because the federal government is going to sound fairly similar to the insurance industry from where I am sitting. There is a huge difference between an extracurricular activity like alcohol and the underlying right to health care(which is the argument that has been made from our side of the aisle). The idea the federal government is going to say that if you don't choose to create a public option(and define said public option which they would lose creative control over since they are ceding the authority to the states)then you are out of luck isn't going to be sellable.

    Furthermore by allowing 50 states piecemeal to create a public option you probably won't have significant savings as each state would require their own clearinghouse and set of forms etc,etc, etc and you would lose uniformity.

    Parent

    And seat belts and speed limits. (none / 0) (#53)
    by oculus on Fri Oct 02, 2009 at 12:21:34 PM EST