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Ft. Hood Shootings

You will get better information about the events in the Media. I have nothing to say about it other than I hope for the best and for the well being of those injured.

Feel free to add your thoughts below.

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    this really seems (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 05:43:26 PM EST
    like something at the beginning of a Graham Greene story that seems to be one thing but turns out to be something completely different.
    I wonder if we will ever really know what it was.

    In my experience (none / 0) (#4)
    by Fabian on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 05:55:14 PM EST
    we only ever get part of the story, unless someone was obsessive about keeping a detailed journal.

    Parent
    Yup. (none / 0) (#9)
    by ChiTownDenny on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 06:06:43 PM EST
    Gunmen is reported to have acted alone, with two handguns, 11 killed, 31 wounded.  Howj many bullets are in handguns?

    Parent
    I was wondering that also (none / 0) (#10)
    by nycstray on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 06:12:52 PM EST
    about the bullets. There had to be at least 44, but what are the odds every single one would hit a person? I never really registered handguns could do so much damage.

    Parent
    clips in automatic pistols (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by athyrio on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 06:15:08 PM EST
    can have lots of bullets

    Parent
    The M9 Beretta pistol is the standard Army sidearm. [...] The M9 pistol has a 15-round magazine


    Parent
    I doubt his weapons were military issue (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 06:56:06 PM EST
    maybe one was, but I have doubts about that.  I was listening to CNN though go on about how this guy could have had weapons on a military base and I was cracking up.  If you live on post they do ask you to house your weapons in a storage facility but nobody shakes your house down.  This is the United States of America though and we can all own handguns. If something happens though with a weapon at your home on post, there will be some hell to pay.  If he lives off post he can keep his guns where ever he wants to.  And they aren't going to shake all of our cars down every day coming in and out of the gate if we have an officer sticker on our car and military identification.

    Parent
    You don't just (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by AlkalineDave on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 07:43:36 PM EST
    get to roll around with your 9mm.  You have to have on issued, and go to the armory and check it out for a legit purpose.  Even then, you wouldn't be issued bullets.  You'd have to go buy some bullets.  

    Parent
    I had never thought about how (none / 0) (#51)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 08:26:06 PM EST
    prone to attack all of you guys are if you are following the rules living lawfully.

    Parent
    Yeah (none / 0) (#126)
    by AlkalineDave on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 07:50:04 AM EST
    the Iraqis think it's a riot we can't be armed on base.  Some of them don't believe us.

    Parent
    And it isn't as if he's unfamiliar with (none / 0) (#32)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 07:13:33 PM EST
    using weapons.  They put up a new range here a few years back to practice and qualify on with pop ups and everything.  My spouse did it using several different makes of provided weapons just because one day.  The military likes everyone to be weapon proficient, and even some silly rotarhead is invited to learn how to shoot anything he wants when time allows.

    Parent
    My general medical officer spouse (none / 0) (#50)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 08:25:51 PM EST
    was on a pistol shooting team when he was assigned to a ship.  They won a championship in Aruba.  

    Parent
    Some of them do it for fun (none / 0) (#54)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 08:29:34 PM EST
    It is a sport.  I don't think my husband is going to be doing anything like that anymore though.  He says since he has RA it hurts like a Mothu to shoot a handgun now.  My husband's issued sidearm looks like a piece of junk though.  It looks like one of those gun lighters with all the paint dinged off of it :)

    Parent
    Definitely as sport. And to avert terminal (none / 0) (#61)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 08:36:08 PM EST
    boredom.

    Parent
    Aviators rocket and bomb.... (none / 0) (#91)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 09:55:37 PM EST
    they don't shoot..

    ;-)

    Parent

    He used to qualify expert on everything (none / 0) (#92)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 09:58:33 PM EST
    even a SAW (and he did that with very little training which I'm told was shocking).  But I think those days are over now.

    Parent
    At least some were military (none / 0) (#11)
    by Fabian on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 06:13:38 PM EST
    Picking off civilians who have no battle training has to be easier than doing the same thing with battle trained military personnel who would instantly recognize the sound of gunfire, and hopefully respond appropriately.

    Parent
    What do you mean (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by AlkalineDave on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 07:46:38 PM EST
    respond appropriately?  Other than duck and cover what could one do.  We aren't allowed to be armed on base unless you're an MP or under very strict circumstances.  It's actually kind of ridiculous.  Any police officer or federal agent can roll onto base with their sidearm, but the armory and weapons are the most protected spot on base.  It would take me very off guard if a major started shooting at me, and unless I had somewhere close by to hide, I really would be an easy to target.  If you can get on base with a gun, we are fish in a barrel.  It's ridiculous how at risk we are to a crazed gunman compared to when we are deployed.

    Parent
    With a few infuriating exceptions (none / 0) (#44)
    by andgarden on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 08:17:11 PM EST
    the degree to which the military operates--in principle--like a liberal Democratic paradise is amusing.

    Parent
    Well, except that someone who (none / 0) (#35)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 07:29:00 PM EST
    probably outranked almost every single one of them was firing on them.  That would cross yer fricken wires all to hell right there because visual  acknowledgement of rank is immediate then followed by respect of the authority. I can't imagine what an enlisted soldier would have to override internally to convince himself that he needed to throw this guy to the ground and sit on him.

    Parent
    Rank is mostly hypothetical to me. (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by Fabian on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 03:26:00 AM EST
    Another reason that I wouldn't do well in the military.  Questioning authority isn't welcomed there.

    Parent
    That largely depends on the authority figure (none / 0) (#128)
    by cawaltz on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 08:27:29 AM EST
    and how you go about questioning. Believe it or not the military leaders I was associated with for the most part wanted our input. I was part of more Process Action teams in the military and had more control over process then I ever have been allowed as a mid level civilian. Go figure.

    Parent
    When was that!? (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by Fabian on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 08:52:49 AM EST
    You may have served under some smart folks.

    Parent
    According to sources, (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 05:47:15 PM EST
    According to sources, [the shooter] Hasan attended the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, MD. He graduated in 2003 with a degree in Osteopathy and later finished his residency as a psychiatrist.

    In 2009, Hasan completed a fellowship in Disaster and Preventive Psychiatry at the Center for Traumatic Stress.

    Thoughts and prayers to the families and loved ones of the victims.

    Wow. (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by Fabian on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 05:52:34 PM EST
    Hardly the background I'd expect.

    Sad.

    Parent

    Hard to understand (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Steve M on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 06:02:25 PM EST
    My thoughts are with the victims, obviously.  Hope someone can eventually inject some sense into this situation.

    American Muslims will now face jeopardy (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by ChiTownDenny on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 06:03:32 PM EST
    and a risk to their civil rights.  This soldier, as reported on Charles Gibson's newcast, was born in Jordan and likely raised Muslim.  This emigre was due to be deployed to Iraq.  
    The ramifications of his actions, and there are still questions as to his actions being conductued singularly, will affect Muslim Americans to their detriment.

    Is it OK if I make a sweeping (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by oldpro on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 06:43:10 PM EST
    generalization about Texas?  Because, heaven help me, that was my first reaction.  I suspect that in a word association test, if you said violence, I'd say Texas.

    Dreadful, I know.

    Parent

    As a liberal from TX (5.00 / 2) (#103)
    by sumac on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 11:41:27 PM EST
    I find that rather insulting. Are there gun-loving, backwards-thinking, fear-mongering people in Texas - sure, and a lot of them. You'll find them in any state, believe it or not. (Having lived in urban California and New York I speak from first-hand knowledge). But to make a blanket statement about any armed Texan being the equivalent of a hyped-up six-year-old, well, that's indicative of one reason liberals have a hard time getting through to southern conservatives - the obvious ridicule and disdain. There are those of us hick liberals (more than you might want to believe) who are trying to change that and convert the "unwashed" and revive the Texas that brought you Ann Richards and Barbara Jordan and Molly Ivans.

    I am sure you are joking in part - but this thread of discussion is disappointing. There are real people suffering in Ft. Hood tonight (my father-in-law was stationed there for many years and I have in-laws still living in Killeen), and the only talk I have heard from people locally and in the Killeen and Ft. Hood area is about donating blood and saying prayers and hoping for the best - nothing about the shooter's nationality or religion. So to add insult to injury seems a bit callous.

    Parent

    I live in Fort Worth (5.00 / 2) (#145)
    by McKinless on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 02:49:49 PM EST
    and just donated blood. The one thing I COULD do to help in a situation that makes one feel so helpless.

    For the record, Hasan is not FROM Texas. He was just passing through, so to speak.

    Still, I would guess something snapped inside him. He sounded isolated. He was no terrorist, no Manchurian candidate. I've just started participating in a group of men, the "Sons of Abraham"--Jews, Muslims, and Christians, meeting together to share, communicate, develop friendship. I feel for our Muslim members from whom this is an especial tragedy. I wish Hasan had had such a group.

    Parent

    Thank you so much for donating (none / 0) (#152)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 07:10:20 AM EST
    Donald, please park your prejudices (5.00 / 1) (#104)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 11:46:18 PM EST
    at the door. Slandering all Texans, armed or not, is childish, uncalled for and bigoted.

    Let me also remind you that this site is a strong supporter of the Second Amendment and an individual's right to bear arms.


    Parent

    To be fair, J, I started it, so (5.00 / 1) (#113)
    by oldpro on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 01:11:09 AM EST
    don't blame it all on Donald.

    As for parking our prejudices...really?  Seems to me the parking police are highly selective about enforcement.

    Oh, well.  Maybe it's just that some prejudices are more unacceptable than others.  For me, that is certainly true, as I am clear about my own prejudices, understand where I got them and why I have them and don't need to defend them or explain them away.  I'm also clear that most people whom I know are unwilling to admit to theirs, so it colors their thinking in odd and inhibiting ways.  Makes it hard to communicate honestly, sometimes...

    Parent

    you said about Texas (5.00 / 1) (#115)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 02:22:34 AM EST
    "That state's residents seems to revel in a sub-culture of gun-inspired mayhem. In my opinion, an armed Texan is the functional equivalent of a six-year-old boy who's been given a double espresso and a free kitten. "

    Parent
    Yeah, except (none / 0) (#141)
    by jbindc on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 11:26:48 AM EST
    This has nothing to do with the state of Texas, except for the fact that the base is located there.

    The alleged shooter was born and raised in Arlington, VA.  It has nothing to do with a "gun-crazy" culture.  This was on a federal installation, where people from all over the place live and work - no state-centric groupthink.

    Parent

    Apples and oranges, Donald. (none / 0) (#142)
    by ChiTownDenny on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 11:30:03 AM EST
    Or, succinctly, CONTEXT.  Based on your comment(s), in jest or otherwise, I don't think I need to explain prejudism to you.

    Parent
    Oh lets be clear. (none / 0) (#27)
    by ChiTownDenny on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 06:49:08 PM EST
    If there is found to be a political angle to this episode, American Muslims will face challenges in this country.  Heck, Obama faced challenges in this country and he ISN'T Mulsim.  

    Parent
    That seems obvious. n/t (none / 0) (#28)
    by oldpro on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 06:54:59 PM EST
    And detrimental. (none / 0) (#31)
    by ChiTownDenny on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 07:05:13 PM EST
    No question. Rumor has it (none / 0) (#36)
    by oldpro on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 07:30:54 PM EST
    that the shooter had suffered harrassment, perhaps simply over his name.

    The facts are important to some people but most could be easily threatened/propagandized and act on fear and prejudice alone.

    It's not easy to be different in America.

    Parent

    You're right about that: (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by ChiTownDenny on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 07:34:50 PM EST
    "It's not easy to be different in America."  
    I do have a concern that if this episode is determined to be political, there will be a backlash.

    Parent
    According to (none / 0) (#43)
    by AlkalineDave on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 07:51:36 PM EST
    his cousin.  That's not an unbiased opinion.  Just because a family member claims he was discriminated doesn't make it true.  I want a little more proof than that seeing the number of people who could get by with mocking a major is quite few compared to company grade officers or enlisted personnel.  Please don't be so quick to assert that he was suffering from discrimination when there hasn't been good evidence to back this up yet.

    Parent
    Ummm....Dave? Reading (none / 0) (#45)
    by oldpro on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 08:18:49 PM EST
    comprehension is a skill.  Please reread what I wrote.  I used the word 'rumor.'

    Sheesh...

    Parent

    I'm sorry (none / 0) (#133)
    by AlkalineDave on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 09:02:33 AM EST
    I read way too quickly, obviously.  I do find it heartening that it hasn't seem that the media has treated this as anything other than a rumor at this point.  I find it difficult to believe a major would have to suffer a large amount of ridicule.  Not saying it couldn't happen, but it is ver unlikely.

    Parent
    If he reported it (none / 0) (#151)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 06:42:22 AM EST
    it was investigated too.  He's a commissioned officer and I know they aren't supposed have extra light shone on their difficulties but I want to be honest with myself and others.  If he wanted out, and then came to employ lawyers, the investigation probably was conducted by the IG.

    Parent
    Rough Road (none / 0) (#123)
    by mmc9431 on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 06:29:09 AM EST
    When I was in the military we had an AA commander. There was no outward mocking of him, but I can attest that behind his back he was ripped by both sides because of his race. I wouldn't doubt for a minute that the same prejudices are still alive and well. Muslem's in our military probably have a very rough road to walk.

    Parent
    Hey, Donald... (none / 0) (#52)
    by oldpro on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 08:27:04 PM EST
    Yep.  And I'm thnking of lots of other violent associations not even connected to guns...death penalty, anyone?  Dealy Plaza and Ozwald are gun-connected, of course, along with Waco...among a few which come immediately to mind.

    Parent
    A U.S. military base located in TX (none / 0) (#56)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 08:31:33 PM EST
    is not the responsiblity of the State of Texas. Also, NPR sd. the Major graduated from Virginia Tech. (as if that was of some significance.)

    Parent
    LOL. You are now officially in (none / 0) (#107)
    by oldpro on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 12:36:59 AM EST
    my will, Donald.  Oh. gawd, you are funny!!  And did I ever need a good laugh tonight, so...consider yourself adopted.

    Parent
    Actually (none / 0) (#125)
    by jbindc on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 07:24:54 AM EST
    He's from that liberal bastion called "Northern Virginia".

    Parent
    And is he Muslim? (none / 0) (#16)
    by Cream City on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 06:24:05 PM EST
    Per MSNBC:

    Officials say it was not clear what Hasan's religion was, but investigators are trying to determine if Hasan was his birth name or if he may have changed his name and converted to the Islamic faith at some point.


    Parent
    WASHINGTON -- Military officials say (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 06:13:53 PM EST
    WASHINGTON -- Military officials say the suspected shooter at Fort Hood was a psychiatrist at Walter Reed Army Medical Center for six years before being transferred to the Texas base in July.

    The officials had access to Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan's military record. They said he received a poor performance evaluation while at Walter Reed.

    The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because military records are confidential.

    The Virginia-born soldier was single with no children. He was 39 years old.

    He is a graduate of Virginia Tech University, where he was a member of the ROTC and earned a bachelor's degree in biochemistry in 1997. He received his medical degree from the military's Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, Md., in 2001. At Walter Reed, he did his internship, residency and a fellowship.



    100% military (none / 0) (#119)
    by Fabian on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 03:45:20 AM EST
    and knowing the records the military keeps, if he had problems, they knew it.

    Sigh.  This is just one.  How many more fragile psyches are in the ranks?  One measure would be to add up all the military suicides and the homicides, then compare them against each other.  X suicides to Y homicides.  For every X hundred people who take their lives, you'll have Y many who strike out against others instead of themselves.  Ignoring mental illness is courting disaster.

    I sense a potential Walter Reed...

    Parent

    The wars (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by lentinel on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 06:26:34 PM EST
    Huffpo:

    "Texas Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison told CNN that the Army Major identified as one of the shooters at Fort Hood was upset about his upcoming deployment to Iraq or Afghanistan".

    Obviously my thoughts are with the victims and their families, but there is an element of chickens coming home to roost with respect to the impact of these horrific, unjustifiable and unending wars on the psyches of the people most directly impacted by them.


    Except (5.00 / 3) (#20)
    by Steve M on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 06:33:26 PM EST
    the chickens aren't coming "home."  The soldiers don't make the decisions but they sure pay the price.

    Parent
    Hey if you tell me to kill someone that (none / 0) (#144)
    by Samuel on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 12:36:50 PM EST
    has not done anything wrong and I do - and you pay me - we're both evil.  

    Parent
    I watched this interview (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 06:48:01 PM EST
    while we had dinner.  She was pretty sad if you ask me.  She said that she couldn't imagine what kind of person would open fire on their fellow soldiers......all full of shame, I heard the hint in her voice too that this guy was ummmmmm of Arabic ethnicity.  I snorted and told her via the television that maybe we need to send her, then she could understand how all people can get that twitchy.

    Parent
    As far I have heard (none / 0) (#42)
    by AlkalineDave on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 07:48:16 PM EST
    he's never went?  Is that correct.  How do you make field grade and not have been deployed?

    Parent
    He never went (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 08:35:36 PM EST
    But people keep trying to put him in that category.  Since you have been in the military though, you probably understand that he was a shrink who would not have been top of anything in the private sector.  In the military though, simply because he has the sheepskin he has a high level job with immediate rank. He was a nugget watcher.....but who watches the nugget watchers?  We just count ourselves really effing lucky if we get a nugget watcher or two in uniform :)

    Parent
    I think anybody with an M.D. starts as a (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 08:36:49 PM EST
    Captain when they sign on active duty.

    Parent
    All my information (none / 0) (#117)
    by Fabian on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 03:31:54 AM EST
    comes from watching M*A*S*H - all the doctors were captains.  Major Houlihan outranked them - although if that made much difference in reality, I don't know.  

    Parent
    I thought so (none / 0) (#134)
    by AlkalineDave on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 09:04:18 AM EST
    All of our doctors come from the navy, so I'm unfamiliar with how their ranks work.  But I have heard that M.D. and J.D. get in as captain.

    Parent
    They lied (5.00 / 3) (#47)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 08:21:57 PM EST
    I don't know how you go from dead to in stable condition.  And a girl took him down.  Hell Ya!  Don't tell me girl's can't do hard stuff like shoot bad guys!! And she's alive right now too at this time!

    If the alleged shooter has not died, why (none / 0) (#57)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 08:33:35 PM EST
    is the anonymous source revealing the Major received a poor performance report?

    Parent
    Because he sucks (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 08:42:04 PM EST
    That what they are saying.  But you don't get fired in the Army.  If you are an officer you get a bad OER, he was below center-mast and he may have even been flagged.  But how many shrinks want to wear a military uniform?  They are like gold in a way.

    Parent
    You are correct (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by Wile ECoyote on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 05:44:59 AM EST
    It sounds like, to me, with his FITREPs, he was kept because they needed his specialty.  

    Parent
    And someone is worried because some (none / 0) (#66)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 08:48:17 PM EST
    dude that sucks and was flagged for probably being a bubble off just shot a whole bunch of people up and killed a bunch of people at Fort Hood.  Someone sat there tonight with their head in their hands saying to themselves, "Oh Sh*t, Oh Sh*t".  I would imagine that it was like the FBI being told about 9/11 and saying to themselves, "Gee, we hope this isn't about those guys we were told about taking flight lessons :)"

    Parent
    What's a civilian officer? (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by nycstray on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 08:53:37 PM EST
    From the CNN update:

    A civilian officer who was wounded in the incident shot the suspect, who is "in custody and in stable condition," Cone told reporters.


    Parent
    This was a police officer who was deploying (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 09:01:14 PM EST
    as a contractor.  We have many of them.  They usually work in the areas of training Iraq or Afghan troops.  They train with our soldiers now and deploy in our uniform.  This is a DOD contractor, wearing our uniform.

    Parent
    I'm sorry (none / 0) (#78)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 09:06:45 PM EST
    I thought you were talking about the deceased police officer.  I don't know who the civilian officer was unless she too is a DOD contractor.

    Parent
    CNN just refered to her as a (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by nycstray on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 09:27:01 PM EST
    "female first responder".

    Parent
    As we have deployed all of our MPs (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 10:06:06 PM EST
    we have been stealing civilian police officers to be the police officers on the posts and bases.  It's probably a good thing since they are less tweaky I'm thinking.  I don't know if she would have come from outside the gates.  Military bases and posts are pretty freaky about allowing "other" authority in their jurisdiction.  I don't think they can tell the FBI to take a leap though.

    Parent
    Yeah, I was just confused by the (none / 0) (#81)
    by nycstray on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 09:13:54 PM EST
    classification "civilian officer". I wasn't computing contractor and it didn't sound like local police or some such civilian officer in my lil' pea brain :)

    Parent
    Why was he promoted to Major? (none / 0) (#67)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 08:51:02 PM EST
    I thought it was more difficult than that, even for an MD.

    Parent
    How it used to work is that you (5.00 / 2) (#72)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 08:58:04 PM EST
    had to be promoted within a certain time frame or you would be let go.  You probably remember this system.  With so many senior officers leaving though and two active wars with numerous deployments, the length of time until promotion has been shortened a lot for those that are proficient.  For those that aren't proficient in areas that we really need people, just sit there long enough...we have some areas being instructed to promote 100%.  His is a very special area and he checked a lot of really good boxes.  I would guess they were jumping through hoops to retain him.  He's decent on paper.

    Parent
    With the current (none / 0) (#135)
    by AlkalineDave on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 09:06:03 AM EST
    shortage of officers, I'm hearing major is getting a lot easier.  The captains around here have been complaining about it lately as they blame it on subpar commanders.

    Parent
    Major is so much easier now (none / 0) (#156)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 07:49:17 AM EST
    When you have been for the long haul, how things are right now brings a lot of b*otching from the oldsters too.  I don't know how it is in the enlisted ranks.  I would hope that they too are taking part otherwise that is discrimination.  But for warrant officers and commissioned officers things move a whole lot faster and easier.  My husband is looking at W5 soon.  I didn't even know there was a W5 when Iraq started up, and at the "soldier readiness center" at Fort Carson there was an older soldier who was alone.  He had no family there saying goodbye, and I had never seen him before.  He was very confident though and so friendly to everyone.  When he walked away I asked my husband who he was and he said that he was an officer who had decided to deploy with them.  I didn't recognize his rank insignia though (and I'm terrible about that anyhow because I came into this life thinking rank is stupid and that leads to a poor learning curve), but I asked my husband what rank that was and my husband told me, "That is God".  Maybe they'll make a W6, because God still doesn't pick his fricken boots and socks up.

    Parent
    And kudos for recognizing (5.00 / 2) (#68)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 08:52:03 PM EST
    that it is peculiar that someone "leaked".  Someone knew this guy was having problems and wasn't okay.  They don't want to be mixed up with the people who ignored it :)

    Parent
    I heard an interview with a corporal (none / 0) (#71)
    by Cream City on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 08:57:57 PM EST
    named Lee, so he said, who said he worked with the alleged shooter a lot and that there were lots of signs that the guy was over the edge.

    But when asked if he reported the signs, the corporal said no.  I suspect that, if he is for real, he also will have some questions to answer?

    Parent

    Probably an enlisted medical corpman. (5.00 / 2) (#74)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 09:00:10 PM EST
    Pretty low on the totem pole compared to a Major.

    Parent
    Hearing more -- he's just retired (none / 0) (#77)
    by Cream City on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 09:05:46 PM EST
    and giving details of what he says the guy said. . . .

    Parent
    medic (none / 0) (#122)
    by Wile ECoyote on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 05:45:50 AM EST
    corpman are Navy.

    Parent
    Fox News just said (none / 0) (#79)
    by nycstray on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 09:06:59 PM EST
    he was flagged 6mos ago. Oy.

    {Fox News comes on right after Fringe in case anyone is wondering about my source watching. . . }

    Parent

    Oy (none / 0) (#80)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 09:11:15 PM EST
    this isn't going to be pretty

    Parent
    More info coming out (none / 0) (#82)
    by nycstray on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 09:17:14 PM EST
    I'm on CNN now and it sounds like it may have been outside law enforcement that flagged him?

    Parent
    I just heard that he had some form (none / 0) (#83)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 09:20:18 PM EST
    of disciplinary action at Walter Reed too.

    Parent
    Huff Post headline says the Major's (none / 0) (#84)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 09:22:35 PM EST
    "writings" indicate sympathetic to suicide bombers.

    Parent
    If, a big if, he is the guy (5.00 / 2) (#86)
    by Cream City on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 09:28:52 PM EST
    by that name writing on blogs, from what I've read from other sources.  I googled the name, and all sorts of people with the name come up -- many of them also medicos, the poor guys.

    Parent
    And let's also keep in mind (5.00 / 2) (#87)
    by Cream City on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 09:29:49 PM EST
    that I could go blog anywhere with the name oculus!

    Especially if I wanted to get someone in trouble, I could blog with their name.  This all is so weird.

    Parent

    The name may be (none / 0) (#118)
    by Fabian on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 03:35:18 AM EST
    like the Indian surname "Patel" which is about as common as "Smith" and "Miller".  Try looking up "Patel" and see how many M.D.s you find.

    Parent
    Oh the shame... (none / 0) (#94)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 10:03:33 PM EST
    lol

    Parent
    cx: hearing the interview again (none / 0) (#140)
    by Cream City on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 10:38:10 AM EST
    make that colonel, not corporal.  Big diff.

    Parent
    'cause he isn't watching TV, so he missed (none / 0) (#60)
    by Inspector Gadget on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 08:35:47 PM EST
    the BREAKING NEWS, maybe?

    Parent
    You can probably be certain that he wishes (none / 0) (#58)
    by Inspector Gadget on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 08:35:00 PM EST
    he was dead right now. He is most likely quite aware of what the rest of his life is going to look like.


    Parent
    He's mentally ill (none / 0) (#69)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 08:52:53 PM EST
    I don't know what he can expect.

    Parent
    How do you know he (none / 0) (#95)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 10:04:25 PM EST
    is mentally ill?

    Parent
    Okay Jim (none / 0) (#97)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 10:07:35 PM EST
    By my own definition of mental illness, he's cooked.

    Parent
    Better to blame his religion (none / 0) (#161)
    by jondee on Mon Nov 09, 2009 at 03:22:40 PM EST
    that way you can indict anyone else who subscribes to the same religion.

    Heavan forbid we should judge these cases on an indivual-to-indivual basis when they're so convenient for propaganda purposes.

    Parent

    On the one hand, it's easy to say that (none / 0) (#99)
    by Anne on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 10:13:58 PM EST
    people of sound mind do not do this; but then, I think that this is exactly what we train our military to do: shoot to kill.

    It's okay to kill "the enemy," but not okay to kill your own; what happens when you can't tell the difference, or you can no longer make sense of it all?

    Parent

    It sounds like he came (5.00 / 2) (#101)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 10:24:59 PM EST
    to think he was surrounded by the enemy.  He wanted out, tried to get out, and they wouldn't allow him out.  I remember when my husband signed on to do the Apache transition.  It was going to cost taxpayers about a million plus dollars to educate him in, and it came with a $60,000 bonus given out over six years.  He told me if he signed on for that though he was in for six years period and even god couldn't change that.  It sounds like because the Army paid for his education they would not let him out, even though he seemed very uncertain about who was his enemy and who was his friend and he had become very unstable.

    Parent
    I think it was CNN that discussed (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by nycstray on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 12:26:11 AM EST
    the military and education and years owed tonight. I was never fond of the recruiting at high schools (post 9/11 was a big issue for me), but today added another dimension to it. While it works out well for many, I've always wondered about the ones that it was just a bad fit for.

    Would/should have the FBI alerted the Army? I've been working, so haven't tuned in since the 'he was flagged 6mos ago' broke, but do they share that info with the Army?

    Parent

    Sounds to me like he is as sane as the average (none / 0) (#100)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 10:23:14 PM EST
    terrorist.... And that is what he is.

    Parent
    How sane are any of us, really? (5.00 / 3) (#102)
    by Anne on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 10:39:37 PM EST
    Are we just lucky that we have never been pushed beyond the limits of what our minds can handle?  Would we be able to hold it together no matter what was thrown at us?

    I'm not sure any of us know where the line is until we are already over it.

    We live our safe lives, we never have to confront the threat of death, the blurring of the line between ally and enemy, never have to help others to reconcile the long-held and ingrained belief that killing is wrong, with the government giving us permission to kill.

    To face countless men and women struggling with the horror of what they have seen and what they have done, and to be charged with making them whole again, is a task even those with training cannot always accomplish.  The stress exposes and inflicts fault lines that spider-web through the psyche of even those thought to be fully integrated.

    Who are we really, to judge the inner workings of other people's minds?

    Parent

    stop the name-calling JIm (5.00 / 3) (#105)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 11:56:53 PM EST
    There's no shred of evidence he's a "terrorist."

    Parent
    We now know he was shouting (none / 0) (#149)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 12:04:43 AM EST
    "God is great!" As he launched his attack.

    Parent
    We also now know (none / 0) (#160)
    by jondee on Mon Nov 09, 2009 at 01:46:03 PM EST
    God isnt great.

    Spread the word to the base.

    Parent

    He's probably in deep prison trouble (none / 0) (#153)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 07:17:27 AM EST
    the psychiatrist that I went on the fieldtrip with yesterday said that he had not met him in person "yet", it is a small field in the military, but that he had already "heard" of him.  He did not elaborate on what he had "heard" and I didn't take that to mean anything either.  He also seemed to think that judging by what the military would consider mentally ill.....he is going to be imprisoned for life and maybe even executed.

    Parent
    BREAKING NEWS ON THIS (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by Inspector Gadget on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 08:25:39 PM EST
    ABC has just announced the shooter is NOT dead. More is going to be explained shortly.

    The media amazes me. I hope this gets sorted out quickly.

    LOL - that'll teach me to post before (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by Inspector Gadget on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 08:27:04 PM EST
    refreshing the screen :)

    Parent
    Pffft........I was shocked (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 08:43:07 PM EST
    so were you :)

    Parent
    The media? (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by nycstray on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 08:44:06 PM EST
    Didn't they get the info from the Army guy at the base that gave a news briefing?

    Parent
    Suspect is licensed to practice medicine. (5.00 / 2) (#88)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 09:36:09 PM EST
    Virginia.  He is not board-certified in psychiatry.

    link

    The troubled soul, laid bare in such (5.00 / 4) (#98)
    by Anne on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 10:09:46 PM EST
    a violent way, is hard to look at; it's frightening to imagine that any of our lives and experiences could take us to a place where such a thing would not just be possible, but could be carried out.

    My heart aches for those who lost their lives and for the people who loved them, who now have to work through this random event for which there will never, ever be satisfactory answers.  

    Live your best life now; you really never know when it might be over.

    Amen (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 12:37:51 AM EST
    Live your best life now... (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by desertswine on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 10:20:45 AM EST
    Gather ye rosebuds while ye may,
    Old Time is still a-flying:
    And this same flower that smiles to-day
    To-morrow will be dying.

    Robert Herrick


    Parent

    WSWS on the killings (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by Andreas on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 12:51:39 AM EST
    The WSWS writes:

    The mass killing at Fort Hood is one more indication that the escalating war in Afghanistan and the continuing occupation of Iraq are straining the all-volunteer US military to the breaking point.

    While combat deaths in Afghanistan rose to a record high last month, suicides among US soldiers both overseas and at home also rose precipitously, reaching 16 in October. A total of 134 active-duty soldiers have taken their own lives so far this year. The suicide rate in the military has risen 37 percent since 2006 and for the first time last year surpassed the rate for the US population as a whole.

    Military commanders attribute the rising suicide rate to back-to-back combat deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan over the past eight years.

    Families at Fort Hood reported that soldiers from the base deployed in Iraq were frantically emailing and text-messaging home in an attempt to find out what was happening. "Here I am in Iraq, worried my wife and son are in danger in their own backyard," an Army specialist wrote.

    The tragic killings at Fort Hood will inevitably have a further demoralizing effect on US troops, who are being thrust year after year into colonial-style wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The unbearable stress that is producing the growing incidents of violence and suicide will only be intensified by the Obama administration's plans to send tens of thousands of additional troops to suppress the resistance of the Afghan people to US occupation.

    US Army major kills 12 at Fort Hood, Texas
    By Bill Van Auken, 6 November 2009

    "Combat stress..." (none / 0) (#120)
    by dutchfox on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 03:55:10 AM EST
    Only last year? (none / 0) (#137)
    by Cream City on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 09:27:20 AM EST
    That the suicide rate in the military exceeded that in the civilian population only last year, considering the many years of war and stress even by then, bespeaks a more emotionally stable group than I would have guessed.  And especially since the standards for recruitment were considerably relaxed some years ago.  

    That would suggest that the military's informal support culture to attempt to provide each other with stability must be as strong as it's said to be -- I say informal, because we have read that the formal support system has so many broken parts.  But now, it would seem that even the support culture has been pushed beyond the max.  

    Working with many military and their wives, I am going to have to work harder to try to help, I can see.  And be alert to pushing them too hard, myself.  They love challenges but are such a reserved and uncomplaining group that it takes a different sort of radar, and I'm often a bit at sea about what to do.

    Parent

    My thought: beware psychiatrists (1.00 / 1) (#89)
    by NealB on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 09:49:43 PM EST
    Good that some medical students choose to study the human soul, to understand how it works. Bad that most of them were failures at their chosen field and easily found a way out of their failure through psychiatry. Psychiatrists kill thousands of souls every day with lies and prescribed medications; that this guy used guns doesn't surprise me.

    Speechless. (5.00 / 3) (#90)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 09:52:04 PM EST
    Scientology alert!! (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 12:37:23 AM EST
    Thank you. (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by nycstray on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 12:41:33 AM EST
    Now it makes 'sense' . . . Oy.

    Parent
    Pathetically unwarrented (none / 0) (#159)
    by jondee on Mon Nov 09, 2009 at 01:44:05 PM EST
    and conditioned obsequiousness to pill pushers and frontal lobe choppers alert.

    AND Scientology alert.

    Parent

    Psychiatrists don't go near the (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by Inspector Gadget on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 08:00:42 AM EST
    soul. It's a medical profession.


    Parent
    Though I often question... (none / 0) (#129)
    by kdog on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 08:33:15 AM EST
    if the human mind is even capable of anything more than a woefully incomplete understanding of the human mind.

    It's a medical profession, but it ain't cardiology or oncology.

    Parent

    Well (5.00 / 1) (#130)
    by jbindc on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 08:46:11 AM EST
    Pschiatrists go to school as long or longer than cardiologists and oncologists.  They are full MD's who did residencies where they did rotations - just like a cardiologist and oncologist.  Then they specialize - just like a cardiologist and oncologist.

    Parent
    I'm not saying they are (none / 0) (#132)
    by kdog on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 09:01:32 AM EST
    lesser doctors than any other type...just saying the human mind can break down the workings of the heart, the workings of cancer cells...and even then they are things we don't fully understand.  Can the mind break down the workings of the mind to any meaningful degree?  I don't know the answer...

    Parent
    Gotcha (none / 0) (#136)
    by jbindc on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 09:15:10 AM EST
    I misunderstood.  Some people confuse psychiatrists and pschologists.

    Parent
    It's the study of motherhood (none / 0) (#154)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 07:23:52 AM EST
    combined with mind altering pharmaceuticals.  I thought you'd be all for it :)  Actually it is much more than that isn't it?  When my thyroid went I had strange emotional swings.  Isn't it feasible that that would have the first symptom investigated......and I hope that any M.D. would have checked that out before he/she sent me home with Prozac.

    Parent
    The irony of it all (none / 0) (#5)
    by Saul on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 05:58:02 PM EST
    This guy who killed and wounded all these soldiers was a medical doctor, a psychiatrist , a major in the army.  His role was to help stressed out soldiers coming from Iraq and Afghanistan.

    Texas has had their share of big shootings.  Not far from Ft. Hood was the Luby's cafeteria shooting then there was the tower of University of Texas shooting.

    Impossible to understand... (none / 0) (#19)
    by kdog on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 06:32:39 PM EST
    how wrong it can go in the human mind...impossible.

    The man's cousin was on the phone with FOX just now...family is shocked, raised here American style, converted to Islam, can't explain it obviously.  The cousin did say Nidal was tore up about the work and hearing the horror stories...but not a violent guy in the past.

    So crazy.

    He heard the worst of the worst (none / 0) (#21)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 06:37:33 PM EST
    all the time.  Bummer

    Parent
    I imagine that immersed as he was (none / 0) (#30)
    by Cream City on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 07:03:23 PM EST
    in what is happening in our wars, as he had to hear about for hours on hours, day after day, week after week, would be stressful enough.  But then to find out that he was heading there could send him over the edge in his own head.  So horrible and sad.

    Parent
    I wonder if he was trying to spare (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by nycstray on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 07:31:36 PM EST
    them in his mind?

    Parent
    Bring attention to PTSD and (none / 0) (#39)
    by Cream City on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 07:39:48 PM EST
    the need for more help for the vets?  I'm in a city with a major VA center and talk to a lot of vets, and the wait for care and other factors are sad.

    Parent
    I think it is because the need is overwhelming (none / 0) (#155)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 07:27:24 AM EST
    but fully acknowledging all of this longterm difficult to overcome brokenness by putting the spotlight on it that it needs would mean that no military force is as strong and flexible as all the Generals and even our Presidents want it to be.

    Parent
    This is pretty crazy (none / 0) (#24)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 06:43:57 PM EST
    If the military mental health care professionals can't stay sane in all this.....well....ermmmmm.  I will be a field trip chaperone tomorrow and another parent coming is another U.S. Army psychiatrist, I have some questions.  Did he leave a note of any kind explaining anything to anyone?

    Jon Krakauer's book re Pat Tillman (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by oculus on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 07:23:52 PM EST
    just came out.  Perhaps this tragedy will be his next subject.

    Parent
    ABC news' website (none / 0) (#25)
    by ChiTownDenny on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 06:46:43 PM EST
    also states he was born in VA.  I don't see a time stamp.  Brian Ross, on Charles Gibson's broadcast, states new info is gunman went to Damascus University in Syria, born in Jordan, likely Muslim.

    video of newscast

    It is now documented that ABC's Brian Ross (none / 0) (#143)
    by ChiTownDenny on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 11:45:40 AM EST
    is a hack reporter.  Meeting a deadline is no excuse for providiong misinformation.  Somehow, I'm not surprised, although I am disappointed, primarily because I accepted this reporting as truth.  

    Parent
    Alleged shooter not dead but wounded (none / 0) (#46)
    by Cream City on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 08:21:46 PM EST
    per the news conference by the Army, for those who may not be able to catch it on teevee.

    And he had a semi-automatic.  No wonder the slaughter.

    I wonder if they'll get the story right (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by andgarden on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 08:25:03 PM EST
    by the time I read anything about this story tomorrow morning?

    Parent
    We now stand a better chance at finding (none / 0) (#55)
    by Inspector Gadget on Thu Nov 05, 2009 at 08:29:38 PM EST
    out what his reasoning was in this. And, he will now stand trial, have to face the families of his victims, and pay for his crime.

    Parent
    Nice dig at semi-automatics. (none / 0) (#146)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 04:03:10 PM EST
    I am not aware of a military sidearm in general use that is not either semi-automatic or full automatic.

    A semi-auto is a gun that (like the revolver that you see in every Western) fires one round every time you pull the trigger.

    The main difference, in practical terms, between a revolver and a semi-auto is that the semi-auto holds more rounds.

    Parent

    Nice screwup of the facts (none / 0) (#147)
    by Cream City on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 08:39:14 PM EST
    since he did not use military issue arms -- that was clear already, as those are not allowed to be walked around a base.

    And yeh, his privately purchased semi-automatic held a lot of rounds, and that was his intent -- 100 rounds, at least, unleashed on unarmed people.

    Nice try.

    Parent

    Semi-automatic is apparently the term (none / 0) (#148)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Nov 06, 2009 at 11:50:11 PM EST
    that has your knickers in a such a knot.

    A semi-auto, whether military or civilian, is a gun that fires one round every time you pull the trigger - just like the 6-shooters John Wayne used, except semi-autos often hold more than 6 rounds. Hasan's gun apparently has the option of 10, 20 or 30 round magazines.

    Parent

    You are such an idiot (none / 0) (#150)
    by Cream City on Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 12:30:08 AM EST
    as you have made so evident.  No more time wasted on you, knickers-mind.

    Parent
    This is not the first time, I believe, (none / 0) (#158)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 11:32:09 AM EST
    that you have attempted to make semi-automatic guns a super-scary boogie-man.

    You are clearly anti-gun, perhaps a prohibitionist.

    I am not. So be it.

    Parent