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Stupak: Amendment Passes on Recorded Vote, 64 Dems Voted For It


Update: Stupak passes, only 1 present vote (Shadegg)because the anti-choicers said they'd score a present vote as a no vote. Final vote: 240 to 194, 1 present. Who are the 64 Dems who voted for the wire coat hanger amendment? The roll call vote is here. Shame on Colorado Rep. John Salazar, brother of former Sen. Ken Salazar.

Update: Reps. Diana DeGette and Louise Slaughter, co-chairs of the Congressional Pro-Choice Caucus, issue this statement:

“Placing onerous new restrictions on a woman’s right to choose sets a terrible precedent and marks a significant step backwards. This effort will effectively ban abortion coverage in all plans, both private and public – marking a significant scaling back of the options offered under existing laws. Such a terrible, last minute amendment to a critical, historic piece of legislation is a shame. This kind of outrageous interference in health care by the government marks a sad day in this struggle and will result in women across America losing the right to health care.”
[More...]

Update: 1 minutes left: 179 yes, 1620 no. The callers on C-Span are so stereotypical. The pros for the health care bill all have preexisting conditions. The anti's are all male, spouting false conceptions of the bill.

Update 8:00 pm MT: The recorded vote on the Stupak amendment just began. It will take 15 minutes. With 12 minutes remaining, the amendment is losing it's 88 to 67.

Original Post

Rep. Stupak just spoke on the House floor. He said his amendment does nothing more than apply the Hyde Amendment prohibiting federal funding of abortion. It says only no public funding for abortion and no public funding of policies offering abortion.

Rep: Diana DeGette: To say Stupak Amendment "is a wolf in sheep's clothing is an understatement." The Health Care reform bill does not spend one federal dollar on abortion. (Page 246, line 11.) Under the amendment, those obtaining insurance under the public option, would not be able to receive an abortion, even if they buy the policy with their own money.

On the amendment's proposal that women obtain supplemental insurance to cover abortion: It is offensive to women. Should someone have to get supplemental insurance for cancer treatment? "This is a legal medical procedure and we should respect those who have to make that decision." "This amendment is the greatest restriction on a women's right to choose in our careers."

Others get 60 seconds or 45 seconds to respond. (They are speaking so fast it's hard to listen let alone type as fast as they speak.)

Nadler: This amendment discriminates against low or moderate income women, such as those who get tax credits for insurance on the exchange -- she can not get coverage with abortion. If she gets insurance under the public option, she can't get abortion coverage at all.

It's great to see Rep. Diana DeGette get out front on the opposition to the Amendment. No one has fought harder in the House for the right to choose than she has. It's interesting that the two sides cannot even agree on what the Amendment means. One side says it's only the Hyde Amendment, the other side it's much more than that. For that reason alone, it should be rejected.

Rep. DeGette closes: Plans in the exchange paid for with private dollars cannot offer abortion. Vote no.

The health care bill will pass tonight, Speaker Pelosi says the Dems have the votes. Stupak Amendment loses on the voice vote. A member asks for a recorded vote. Further proceedings on this amendment will be postponed.

Hopefully, this will be goodbye and good riddance to Stupak. I hope I never have to hear you from you again.

See updates above, since it passed on the recorded vote, we just have to hope it gets stripped from the bill at conference time.

< Stupak: A Pac With Seven Stupid People | Dems Pass Health Care Bill, 220 to 215 >
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  • Display: Sort:
    This debate is awful. Thankyouverymuch (5.00 / 10) (#1)
    by Cream City on Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 07:15:08 PM EST
    to the Democratic Party, Obama, Pelosi, Reid, et al., for so screwing up this health care bill that we now have this debate that is allowing the right wing to hold a @##$%%!@$!!~ anti-abortion rally on the floor of Congress and on national tv.  

    Listening to the right-wing speeches detailing gore on the hospital floor, listening to their claims that are not factual with no rebuttal from alleged Dems, listening to the right-wingers cheering each other on . . . I fully expect signs waving soon with bloody fetuses on the floor of Congress.

    And I fully expect that this is only the opening of the next wave of assault and new restrictions on the rights for which we fought.  And after what we have seen, I also fully expect this Nu Dem party and this White House to just let it happen.

    I thought Diana DeGette was good (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 07:19:38 PM EST
    and the Amendment lost. The emotional Republicans were pathetic. All they promised was an up or down vote, they got it and they lost.

    The Dems will do their job and get the health care bill passed tonight.

    Parent

    Unfortunately not (5.00 / 3) (#3)
    by mcjoan on Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 07:24:42 PM EST
    they are going to have a recorded vote, which is postponed while they debate the Republican substitute. Votes on both of these amendments (Stupak and the Rs) will happen in about an hour.

    Parent
    McJoan is correct (none / 0) (#9)
    by MikeDitto on Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 07:59:39 PM EST
    There will be a recorded vote, it has just been delayed until later so the debate can continue on other items and then they'll do recorded votes on a bunch of things successively.

    Parent
    thanks (none / 0) (#12)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 08:09:15 PM EST
    So it lost on the voice vote and is postponed for the recorded vote, right? That's what I put in the post, so is it only my comment that's wrong?

    Parent
    Right (none / 0) (#14)
    by mcjoan on Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 08:17:01 PM EST
    Nothing's lost yet. The votes should be coming in the next hour(?). It's looking right now like this one will pass, unless a handful of Republicans who are saying they'll vote "present" grows.

    Parent
    And that there is an opening at all (5.00 / 9) (#8)
    by Anne on Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 07:46:43 PM EST
    can be laid right at the feet of the Democrats in Congress and, more particularly, in the White House.  

    Obama's willingness to give ground, to send the message that we women really can't be trusted to make these decisions for ourselves, his appointing to administration positions of more than a few anti-choice individuals with track records of working against the right to choose, and in favor of blurring the line between church and state - this was a huge opening in the barricade that has been protecting women's reproductive rights.

    I'm glad, of course, that the amendment appears to have been defeated; what still ticks me off is that it was ever open to debate in the first place.

    I'm still waiting to discover the advantages of this Democratic majority, which seems determined to sacrifice the interests of women for something that isn't even within miles of being close to "the greater good."

    Parent

    Let them have their fun (none / 0) (#6)
    by Steve M on Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 07:38:10 PM EST
    at the end of the day the law is what matters.

    Parent
    Read Anne's comment (5.00 / 4) (#21)
    by Cream City on Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 09:12:51 PM EST
    if it's not clear enough in mine:  to have allowed this mess to degenerate into a debate on abortion is a disaster.

    Shall we debate woman suffrage next?  Oh oh, I wouldn't put it past these Dems to let the right wing do so.

    Fine, then.  Let's debate, oh, slavery.

    Parent

    Well (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by Steve M on Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 09:41:26 PM EST
    I am very concerned about the passage of the amendment.  The fact that there was a debate is merely symbolic.

    If we do not have a majority pro-choice Congress, as it appears, would that fact change if we could somehow muzzle the debate?  If everyone turns off C-SPAN is there not a problem any more?

    What makes me unhappy is that the country has not evolved to where it should, in a moral sense.  The debate serves to remind me of that fact.  But it would still be true debate or no debate.

    Parent

    Merely symbolic? (5.00 / 3) (#28)
    by Cream City on Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 09:46:45 PM EST
    There is no mere symbolism in politics.  Agenda-setting is key, and this is resetting the agenda -- and with the concurrence of so many Democrats.

    But sure, it's just as well that they reveal themselves to be DINOS -- so may they all lose when up for re-election.  I swear to the goddess, I will work to defeat so-called Democrats for the first time in my life.  That will be symbolic for me.


    Parent

    Well see (none / 0) (#49)
    by cawaltz on Sun Nov 08, 2009 at 05:10:21 AM EST
    it will be better to some if women don't have suffrage. I mean if we force women to stay home it'll improve the mens unemployment numbers and after all thaty matters.

    Parent
    3 guesses: which 'side' gets more abortions? (none / 0) (#16)
    by Ellie on Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 08:42:17 PM EST
    No wonder my ears were ringing.

    The one silver lining in this sack of manure is that it will rip the fig leaf (so to speak) off the phony Piety Brigade.

    It's wearily been proven ad infinitum that medically based education, pregnancy prevention and treatment keep health care costs way down and the anti-access, anti-prevention, anti-rights fanatics are not only our, but their own, worst enemies.

    If anyone had any sense or decency, the wording would be changed from being about rape, incest and the life of the mother to the health of the mother. If they can't accomplish that much for us ambulatory fertility pods, they might as well use us as for spare parts.

    I'm Hoping the Big Change we'll see during the next election cycle is the Arrest Us and Charge Us or Leave Us The F*ck Alone movement.

    Parent

    What a disaster (5.00 / 5) (#15)
    by mmc9431 on Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 08:40:39 PM EST
    And these are Democrat's? I think we need to shrink the "big Tent" a bit. Woman's rights are a basic part of the Democratic Platform.

    I expected the Republican's to do everything within their power to derail any Democratic success. What I didn't expect was to have members of my own party working continually to submarine HCR.

    This whole fiasco of HCR really shows a total lack of leadership from Obama. He should have been out in front on this bill from the start. If he had led, the party would have followed.

    It isn't even that they are working to (5.00 / 4) (#20)
    by Anne on Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 08:59:57 PM EST
    submarine health care reform; what they are doing is working to undermine the rights of women and their ability to manage their own health.

    And if we didn't know it before, it ought to be crystal clear at this point: Obama does not give a rat's patootie about reforming the health care system - he cares about Congress passing a bill, and it won't matter - to him - that it is less-than-acceptable, more-like-the-camel's-a$$, as long as he can claim a HUGE VICTORY that will require a stirring speech and give us a good look up his nostrils as he strikes a pose for the ages.

    Pardon me while I swallow the bile that is creeping up into my mouth.

    [and can you stand a grammatical correction?  Pluralizing Democrat and Republican requires only an "s" - no apostrophe needed.  It is possession that requires the apostrophe, as in "the Virgina Democrat's position on abortion is..." I'm sure it is a function of my age, so please don't take it as anything more than grammar obsession!  :) ]

    Parent

    I believe that Obama wanted this! (4.25 / 4) (#48)
    by suzieg on Sun Nov 08, 2009 at 02:03:31 AM EST
    because I remember an interview with "Relevant," a Christian magazine, where Obama said prohibitions on late-term abortions must contain "a strict, well defined exception for the health of the mother."

    Obama then added: "Now, I don't think that 'mental distress' qualifies as the health of the mother. I think it has to be a serious physical issue that arises in pregnancy, where there are real, significant problems to the mother carrying that child to term."

    Last year, after the Supreme Court upheld a federal ban on late-term abortions, Obama said he "strongly disagreed" with the ruling because it "dramatically departs form previous precedents safeguarding the health of pregnant women."

    Obama never fought for women's reproductive rights i.e. his dozen "absent" votes in Illinois even when the life of a woman was at stake. He's more focused on getting some of those pro-lifers' votes in order to make up for the ones of the disappointed democrats who will stay home in 2012 - it's all about being acceptable to the right....

    Parent

    Oops (none / 0) (#22)
    by mmc9431 on Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 09:14:08 PM EST
    Oh no, you sound like my mother! She was an English major that got stuck with me. Oh well she was lousy at history so it balanced out.

    Parent
    Amendment (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by Pat Johnson on Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 08:53:49 PM EST
    Blue dogs, yellow dogs, dirty dogs all.  The women who voted with Stupak are reminders of what "sell out" means.  As one congresswoman pointed out this is still a democracy, not a theocracy.

    Wouldn't put money on how long that lasts.  This is not a "debate" but an appeal to those back home for next year's votes.  Sickening.

    So will Obama veto a bill (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by Cream City on Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 09:22:59 PM EST
    with this amendment that so contradicts the rights that, as a Constitutional law teacher would know, are understood to be embedded in the Constitution -- for more than half of Americans?

    I think we know the answer to that.

    Who are the Coathanger Dems (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by Ellie on Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 09:54:43 PM EST
    ... who hung with Stupak?

    Here's the roll call of shame (5.00 / 2) (#31)
    by Cream City on Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 09:56:23 PM EST
    Altmire
    Baca
    Barrow
    Berry
    Bishop (GA)
    Boccieri
    Boren
    Bright
    Cardoza
    Carney
    Chandler
    Childers
    Cooper
    Costello
    Cuellar
    Dahlkemper
    David (AL)
    Davis (TN)
    Donnelly
    Doyle
    Driehaus
    Ellsworth
    Etheridge
    Gordon (TN)
    Griffith
    Hill
    Holden
    Kanjorski
    Kaptur
    Kildee
    Langevin
    Lipinski
    Lynch
    Marshall
    Matheson
    McIntyre
    Mellancon
    Michaud
    Mollohan
    Murtha
    Oberstar
    Ortiz
    Perriello
    Peterson
    Pomeroy
    Rahall
    Reyes
    Rodriguez
    Ross
    Ryan (OH)
    Salazar
    Shuler
    Skelton
    Snyder
    Space
    Spratt
    Stupak
    Tanner
    Taylor
    Teague


    Parent
    Thx for posting the list. (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by shoephone on Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 10:02:53 PM EST
    I was just looking for it.

    "Coathanger Dems." That's a keeper.

    Parent

    I put the link to the vote in the post. (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 10:07:49 PM EST
    And I'm going to use Coathanger Dems (none / 0) (#32)
    by Cream City on Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 09:57:43 PM EST
    Great term.  And I'm going to use it, any chance I get, to see that they never get another term.

    Parent
    Please do, and include our Coathanger President (4.40 / 5) (#39)
    by Ellie on Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 10:09:40 PM EST
    Who led the way with some of the Best Speeches Ever on this expedient, cost-cutting measure.

    Now that the uteruses have been sold, how about auctioning off some of those extra lady-kidneys to pay for His Legacy?

    Parent

    To answer your first question: (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by shoephone on Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 10:15:10 PM EST
    No.

    As to the second question:

    Yes.

    I would have much preferred that Pelosi, Hoyer and Clyburn (why do I feel like calling them Moe, Larry and Curly?) had put the bill to a vote without the amendment and force the Coathanger Dems to vote against that. That would have exposed the 64 of them, AND it would have proved what dismal failures Obama and his "killer", Rahm Emanuel, really are.

    What? You mean an actual strategy? (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by Anne on Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 10:23:51 PM EST
    Tsk, tsk - even the slightest possibility that Obama might be exposed as the poseur he is was never, ever an option.

    Good thing I gave up the Sunday shows a long time ago, as I'm sure my head would explode over all the credit the Democratic House leadership is going to be giving to Obama on this.

    Bleah...

    Parent

    Midterms can't come soon enough (5.00 / 4) (#43)
    by Ellie on Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 10:25:16 PM EST
    I'm printing that list,
    Checking it twice
    Planning whose 'nads
    Get put in a vise ...

    Parent
    Sounds like America needs a pool for abortions (5.00 / 2) (#47)
    by blogtopus on Sun Nov 08, 2009 at 12:14:10 AM EST
    I'd be willing to make a yearly donation towards paying into a pool of 'insurance' that would pay for any safe abortions (or other reproductive health procedures deemed too icky for GOP and assorted Dem idiots) made in America for that year. Sad that it has to happen this way, but maybe there's a way that we can make the Democratic Party feel it. Not the GOP, they were just doing what they always do. The Dem Party is the guilty culprit.

    How about a staged photo of a woman who died of sepsis from a botched abortion, lying in a gutter, sent to the Dem Party Leadership (and the NYT) every time a woman gets a safe one paid by non-HCR means? "This is what WE prevented... no thanks to you. Unfaithfully Yours, America."

    Well, if they make the abortion (none / 0) (#4)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 07:28:46 PM EST
    supplemental insurance cheaper or equal to the monthly copay for our birth control, then perhaps all of us women could actually end up using abortion as a form of birth control.  But Republicans wouldn't allow the aborting of children to become a free market driven commodity to fatten the pockets of their PAC contributors would they?

    Copay for birth control? (none / 0) (#5)
    by nycstray on Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 07:33:07 PM EST
    Seems like they would prefer for us to pay 100% going forward.

    Parent
    I think some women do (none / 0) (#7)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 07:40:18 PM EST
    And birth control is beginning to cost around $80.00 a month for some.  Bet the supplemental insurance is cheaper :)  We could even get HMO abortion clinics I bet.

    Parent
    I'd ask how did we get here . . . (5.00 / 2) (#11)
    by nycstray on Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 08:03:10 PM EST
    but unfortunately, I was paying attention. Oy.

    Supplement will only be cheaper until the mandate kicks in  ;)

    Back to the kitchen for me :) Yes, I have socks on and an empty uteru$.

    Parent

    Please update your post Jeralyn (none / 0) (#10)
    by jes on Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 07:59:39 PM EST
    Stupak has not been defeated. There will be a vote.

    I repeated the recorded vote is pending (none / 0) (#13)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 08:12:41 PM EST
    Hope it's right now.

    Parent
    Will these votes ever happen? (none / 0) (#17)
    by kenosharick on Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 08:47:59 PM EST
    The minority leader seems to be rambling on in his own personal filibuster. He's talking about cap and trade, and other topics; very little if any truth included, of course.

    My wife's parents (none / 0) (#19)
    by eric on Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 08:57:01 PM EST
    are from the UP of Michigan, Stupak's district and we visit often.  It is a rural, gun-loving, pro-life Democrat type of place.  A lot like the northern part of my state, Minnesota.  But this isn't about his district.  It is about him.  He has turned into a wacko anti-choice religious zealot.  I have heard that even his staff is questioning him on this.  I think it has something to do with his kid (Bart, Jr.) committing suicide back in 2000.

    Ah, a Yooper. Good. I'm not that far (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by Cream City on Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 10:43:59 PM EST
    from there and will watch to see who runs against him -- Dem or Repub, I'm sending a donation.

    The party labels are meaningless now.

    Parent

    Stupak amend about to pass (none / 0) (#23)
    by kenosharick on Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 09:14:22 PM EST


    Earlier today, I read (5.00 / 8) (#26)
    by Anne on Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 09:35:23 PM EST
    d-day's take on this, and it made me feel sick:

    I'm going to make a prediction: if the Stupak Amendment passes today, it will end up in the bill. There's a rumor going around that the President personally promised Henry Waxman that he would work to get the language out of the bill in the conference committee. But that's the message being spread around to get pro-choice liberals to vote for the bill. It's as meaningless as "we'll get you a single payer amendment" and just as effective. To borrow a phrase from my moviemaking days, this is the equivalent of "we'll fix it in post."

    This language is not in any of the Senate bills, but pro-life Harry Reid will almost certainly allow an amendment of this ilk. And even if it doesn't pass (it would need 60 votes), there's the conference committee. And Stupak would raise the same threat, and the same "pro-choice" Democratic leadership will kowtow to him. Even though he probably never had the votes.

    I'm someone who believes that every person has the right to his or her beliefs, and with respect to abortion, my feeling has always been, if you don't believe it's right, don't have an abortion.  If you are a man, and you will never, ever be in a position to be pregnant, or to be faced with ending a pregnancy that is developing in your own body, I can appreciate your feelings, I can respect them, but I cannot and will not tolerate your beliefs affecting and determining my ability to make decisions about what is happening to and within my own body.  

    To Bart Stupak, I can only say that I respect your belief in the sanctity of life, but I reject your belief that you should be able to take from me autonomy over my own body.

    To Nancy Pelosi, I can only say that while Democrats are supposed to be the party of the open-minded, we are also supposed to be the party of reproductive choice, and you failed to uphold a basic party tenet by giving legitimacy to Stupak's amendment.

    Every time I turn around, Democrats are letting me down, treating me like a second-class citizen who can be sacrificed on the altar of getting-a-win-for-Obama, and expecting me to see a big picture that doesn't put me on equal footing with others.

    I don't know how I'm supposed to be a party to my own sacrifice and humiliation.

    Parent

    Obama has no power to get the language (4.25 / 4) (#29)
    by shoephone on Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 09:51:56 PM EST
    out of the bill during conference, nor does he have any interest to do so. He's playing a deceitful game, as usual. His unwillingness to lead on a real health care reform effort set the stage for this exact scenario.

    Bravo, Mr. O. Take a bow.

    The failures of this entire episode lay at Obama's feet. He didn't lead because he didn't give a damn from the start.

    I don't live in Waxman's district, but many of my family members do. He'll be hearing from me, as will all of my national representatives from WA State. And they thought they were already sick of hearing from me. HA!

    Parent

    The only conclusion I can reach (none / 0) (#35)
    by Anne on Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 10:04:55 PM EST
    is that Obama is on board with this.  Which is something that was pretty obvious even before the election, but too many people just closed their eyes to it.

    As for "leadership," I would laugh at the idea that Obama had even a clue what that mean, but the consequences of his failures would seem to call for tears.

    Parent

    Good guess (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by Inspector Gadget on Sun Nov 08, 2009 at 02:25:07 PM EST
    since he went to the House yesterday to encourage them to vote YEA, and then called Nancy after it passed to tell her what a rousing great job she did.

    Seems fairly obvious that he's on board with it. And, Nancy can't stop giggling over her part in pleasing him.


    Parent

    Or pitchforks. (none / 0) (#38)
    by shoephone on Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 10:08:52 PM EST
    Owens didn't vote for it (none / 0) (#33)
    by magster on Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 09:59:49 PM EST
    he might be a gem in the rough.  Off to a good start.

    Disgrace. (none / 0) (#36)
    by mg7505 on Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 10:06:43 PM EST
    Was this concession (or rather, betrayal) necessary? Were there really any Dems who wouldn't vote for a Stupak-less HRC bill?

    Interestingly, the Senate does have (none / 0) (#41)
    by andgarden on Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 10:18:00 PM EST
    a pro-choice majority, though I expect the Republicans to make mischief as they did in the House--even the supposedly pro-choice ones. I hope we can fix this in Conference.

    With Harry Reid in charge? (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by shoephone on Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 10:26:42 PM EST
    Hmm. Not too confident about that.

    Parent
    Just now, I will settle for nothing less (5.00 / 3) (#45)
    by Cream City on Sat Nov 07, 2009 at 10:42:46 PM EST
    than an equally hours-long debate on an amendment to not cover prostate cancer -- and nothing less than almost one-fourth of the Dems in the Senate voting for it.

    Parent
    That tears it -- (none / 0) (#50)
    by nemo52 on Sun Nov 08, 2009 at 01:58:35 PM EST
    I've been a lifetime democrat, and resisted the temptation to move to independent even through the primary debacle.  But now I think I'm really ready to leave the party behind.  It certainly does not champion women at all, and refuses to push back against the Republicans.  It's a sad sad day.

    And if, as we now are told (none / 0) (#51)
    by Cream City on Sun Nov 08, 2009 at 02:15:01 PM EST
    -- and with evidence, although there still seems to be so much nuance that who knows -- that the bill actually does exclude undocumented immigrants, in addition to excluding coverage of crucial anatomical parts of women . . . well, what is left?  It privileges white men.  And I really don't know how it can continue to receive support here.  Why do some here care more about covering a camel's nose than covering many Hispanic Americans, men and women, as well as major health issues for even more women?

    Welcome to the ranks of the former Dems, now Independents.  I already didn't know what else to do, based on the evidence of a party abandoning so much of what defined it for me.  So for me, what we saw yesterday (and for some time) is just more affirmation.  But had I stuck with it, as you did -- yes, yesterday would tear it.

    Parent

    Does anyone else see the irony here? (none / 0) (#53)
    by Banzel on Sun Nov 08, 2009 at 11:38:18 PM EST
    "This kind of outrageous interference in health care by the government marks a sad day . . .  "

    The whole purpose of the bill is to foster outrageous government interference in health care.  Anyone outraged by the Stupak Amendment should be outraged by the bill that made the amendment possible.