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Friday Afternoon Open Thread

It's Friday the 13th, Valentine's Weekend and Starbucks is introducing instant coffee next week. That's all I've got. Here's a thread for your thoughts, all topics welcome.

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    9/11 Widow Activist (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by cal1942 on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 01:25:59 PM EST
    Beverly Eckert was killed in the Buffalo airline crash.

    Instant coffee has only one use: (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by andgarden on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 01:28:40 PM EST
    To make coffee flavored baked goods.

    Agree (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by Democratic Cat on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 02:32:01 PM EST
    I add instant espresso to almost any baked good involving chocolate.

    Parent
    Q. & A. (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by scribe on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 08:43:38 PM EST
    Q.:  What do you call instant coffee at Starbucks?

    A.:  Ashes.

    Parent

    Instant coffee from Charbucks? (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 01:29:06 PM EST
    No thanks.  Their regular stuff is bad enough.

    Instant coffee is only tolerable when one is camping, IMO.  

    What's in a name? We now call the coffee (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by wurman on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 01:41:31 PM EST
    shops "Fourbucks" & "Fivebucks."

    Parent
    I always order... (none / 0) (#20)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 01:53:43 PM EST
    ...a "short" when I go to SB's even though they don't put that size on the menu.  Helps keep the tab at around a couple of bucks.

    Parent
    You don't like (none / 0) (#9)
    by eric on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 01:43:55 PM EST
    Starbucks?  I'll admit that it is expensive, but it is also really tasty, IMO.  I can't think of a better latte than from Starbucks.  I try to go to the local, non-chain places, but I can't get anything as good as that latte.

    Parent
    The lattes aren't too terrible... (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 01:51:30 PM EST
    ...but their regular coffee is way too over- roasted for my palate.  I prefer Peet's or Tulley's--or Caribou from your neck of the woods.  Not many of their locations here yet though.

    I think all of my visits to Seattle have turned me into a coffee snob...

    Parent

    Dark roasting (5.00 / 0) (#65)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 03:01:04 PM EST
    is the time-honored way to conceal inferior coffee beans.  Doesn't matter what the quality of the bean is because you can't taste past the burn anyway.  I like a rippin' dark roast cup once in a while, but for daily use, I prefer the actual taste of coffee!

    I actually think McDonald's coffee is better than either Starbucks or Dunkin'.

    Parent

    Agree. For a great coffee company (none / 0) (#89)
    by Democratic Cat on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 04:08:02 PM EST
    that knows how to roast light to medium blends, try Blue Bottle coffee in Oakland. You can order on the web. It is teh awesome. (Try the Bella Donovan or Three Africans if you want something on the dark side of medium, and Alma Viva for something on the lighter side. Alma Viva is particularly good to drink when having omelettes and sourdough toast for breakfast.)

    Parent
    Thanks for the tip (none / 0) (#156)
    by gyrfalcon on Sat Feb 14, 2009 at 12:22:13 AM EST
    I really, really, really miss the fabulous coffee I used to get from Trader Joe's, now a 6-hour round trip away-- great price, great taste, and organic, shade-grown, bird-friendly and fair trade.

    I get dcent coffee from the natural foods coop up in  Middlebury, but it's expensive and not as good as I was used to.

    Parent

    Caribou (none / 0) (#25)
    by eric on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 01:58:35 PM EST
    sometimes seems to burn their coffee.  They keep it on the burner too long, or something.  When they are moving a lot of it, however, it's good.

    Parent
    Peets is so good (none / 0) (#28)
    by samtaylor2 on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 02:00:20 PM EST
    Caribou coffee I think uses Caribou pee as an ingredient in their special drinks (their special drinks are just not drinkable).

    Parent
    Here's a... (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by desertswine on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 02:27:05 PM EST
    Stars and Bucks in Ramallah.

    Parent
    I'm with Mile... (none / 0) (#14)
    by kdog on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 01:48:31 PM EST
    that Starbucks sh*t is bitter Eric, I don't do the lattes and fancy-schmancy stuff though, just coffee half and half 2 sugars.  

    Dunkin Donuts has got the goods, and 7-11 brew ain't bad at all...and both half the price.

    Parent

    Sorry. DD might have great donuts (none / 0) (#141)
    by scribe on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 08:42:40 PM EST
    but their coffee sux.  In my area, all the DDs are run by South Asians, and they all make the coffee weak, and sort of like chai.

    No.

    My favorite coffee shop is a little hole in the wall where you have to stand, two doors down from where a Starf*cks opened about 7 yr ago.  And their coffee beats the burnt crap Starf*cks sells, hands down.

    Parent

    You obviously don't live in Seattle (none / 0) (#34)
    by shoephone on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 02:07:46 PM EST
    Starbuck's may have started out here, but they have some of the worst (burnt!) coffee in the city. Their baristas do not know how to steam milk to save their lives.

    Almost all the independent coffee houses here are far superior to SBx.

    Diva, Vivace, Javasti, Ladro, Bauhaus, the Allegro...

    Parent

    I was watching a Man v. Food... (none / 0) (#80)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 03:41:16 PM EST
    ...episode on Seattle the other night--and aside from breakfast at Beth's, they went to the Red Mill. Have you had their burgers, and if so, are they truly as good as advertised?

    Parent
    Yes - Red Mill Rocks!!! (none / 0) (#98)
    by shoephone on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 04:58:20 PM EST
    I live about equadistant to both locations and the only reason I don't eat there more often is because I am trying hard to lose weight. When I do go, I almost always get the Verde Chicken Burger (grilled chicken breast and roasted anaheim or poblano peppers, chipotle sauce and white cheddar cheese). Yummmm. They also have good veggie burgers. And the decor is vintage early 60's burger joint, with yellow formica tables and red leather seats.

    Ironic sidenote: there's a Starbuck's right next door to both Red Mill locations.

    Parent

    Friends say their beef burgers are great too (none / 0) (#99)
    by shoephone on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 05:00:33 PM EST
    but since I don't eat beef, I can't confirm. (Though I wouldn't doubt that it's true.)

    Parent
    Cool, thanks! (none / 0) (#134)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 06:41:21 PM EST
    I'll put them on my list for the next visit.  One Bleu Cheese N' Bacon Burger with a side of rings (hope they're equally tasty) for me.  I love the no-cell phone policy already!  

    Need to stop at Top Pot as well--we never seem to make it there much to my dismay.  

    /mmmmmmm, bacon and blue cheese!
    //suddenly very hungy

    Parent

    One of my sibs (none / 0) (#140)
    by scribe on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 08:40:02 PM EST
    gave me a couple pounds of Pennsylvania Dutch bacon for Christmas.

    I've been enjoying that stuff one slice at a time ....

    Talk about a cool gift.

    Parent

    I have to drink decaf (none / 0) (#111)
    by BernieO on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 05:15:35 PM EST
    and I like cappuccino and espresso. The only place I have found it is good is Dean and DeLuca. (And I have had a lot of it in Italy. Regular, too. This is my idea of living dangerously.)

    Parent
    Ah, yes... (none / 0) (#132)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 06:32:34 PM EST
    ...nothing compares to the real Italian stuff from an Italian corner cafe in Italy.  Kind of like gelato.  Or Lemoncello...

    /drifts off to memories of Sorrento

    Parent

    House just passed stimulus (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by magster on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 01:32:27 PM EST
    No GOP votes.

    4 fewer Blue Dogs voted against the stimulus.  That is where the bipartisanship exists -- when Blue Dogs actually vote with their party.

    I'm hearing... (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by kdog on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 01:44:03 PM EST
    it would be almost physically impossible for our reps to have read the whole bill...1400 pages or something.

    For the life of me I don't know how congress-critters can vote on bills they haven't even read....who knows what is buried in there on page 1323.

    I know the world is ending and all, but we can't spare a week to let the critters read the damn thing?  Not saying they would even if given a year, but still.

    Parent

    Page 1323 (5.00 / 3) (#12)
    by eric on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 01:46:09 PM EST
    says, "kdog shall get a $1,000,000 stimulus grant."  Happy now?  ;)

    Parent
    Sweet... (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by kdog on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 01:51:32 PM EST
    lets party...you're all invited!

    I'll book a couple suites at Caesars...:)

    Parent

    I didn't think we were suppose (none / 0) (#21)
    by coast on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 01:54:12 PM EST
    to be going to Vegas?

    Parent
    Why not? (none / 0) (#32)
    by kdog on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 02:07:18 PM EST
    No stimulus for us sinners?...we're Americans too damn it:)

    Then again, casino gamblers are used to accepting our losses...bankers, otoh:)

    Parent

    Rebranding... (none / 0) (#59)
    by desertswine on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 02:45:49 PM EST
    Fundamentalists are now "Socially Conservative Evangelicals."

    Blackwater is no longer "Blackwater."

    Ahh.. it's all better now.

    Parent

    Well (none / 0) (#61)
    by squeaky on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 02:52:08 PM EST
    Now they can renew their contract in Iraq that expires in May. As I recall the Iraqi government banned Blackwater, since the
    'tarnished" name no longer exists, it should be no problem for them to work in Iraq.

    Parent
    I didn't mean... (none / 0) (#62)
    by desertswine on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 02:56:18 PM EST
    for the previous post to appear in that spot. Don't know why it did. Fat fingers I guess.

    Parent
    For a cool mil... (none / 0) (#22)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 01:55:38 PM EST
    ...can't we do better than Caesars?  And how much of a stake do I get for the blackjack table?

    Parent
    Most is allocated... (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by kdog on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 02:03:00 PM EST
    to refreshments and assorted intoxicants...plus its a government grant, I gotta skim some, its the law I think:)

    Parent
    BTW... (5.00 / 0) (#52)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 02:31:21 PM EST
    ...lookie what I see in the local (so to be dead) paper...

    They played the Crossroads Festival in '07 and some Madison Square Garden dates, and now Steve Winwood and Eric Clapton are doing a full-blown U.S. tour including a June 21 date at the Pepsi Center. Clapton is also doing some Japan shows with Jeff Beck - clearly he's in a collaborative mood.

    Not quite Blind Faith, but close!

    Parent

    So nice, so very nice.... (none / 0) (#57)
    by kdog on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 02:35:58 PM EST
    missed 'em last go round at the Garden, won't make that mistake again.

    Thanks for the heads up my brother!

    Parent

    Terry Bozzio? (none / 0) (#139)
    by scribe on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 08:36:15 PM EST
    If Zappa would have him in his band....

    Parent
    Hell, 'Mile, I'm sure Ginger would be in... (none / 0) (#58)
    by easilydistracted on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 02:38:25 PM EST
    Just find him a sponsor to provide a drum set. I wish the heck they'd do a US ten city thing, like the reunited Cream wouldn't.  Do ya think Stevie can keep that commercial streak out of his system long enough?  

    Parent
    If not GB... (none / 0) (#64)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 02:58:40 PM EST
    ...there are rumors that his son might be doing some dates.  

    Last time I talked to Ginger, he still had plenty of drums (he's using these instead of the old Ludwig's), but its been a few years since he pulled up stakes and moved out of Colorado.  He was heavily into jazz then, so I don't know if he would dig playing rock n' roll star now.

    Parent

    You and Ginger Baker, buds? (none / 0) (#69)
    by easilydistracted on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 03:16:52 PM EST
    Dude, I'm impressed! I didn't know he was ever residing in Colorado. I thought he remained in England. The reason I remarked about the drum sponsor is because I read somewhere that the Cream reunion almost didn't occur because Ginger was flat broke and couldn't even afford a drum set. Man, was I misinformed. Must have some of the chronic or something.

    IMO, the two best drummers of all time: Ginger Baker and Mitch Mitchell (as confirmed by the isle of wight video)

    Parent

    Two of the best... (none / 0) (#71)
    by kdog on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 03:24:35 PM EST
    no doubt, but ya can't leave Keith Moon out.

    Whose Number # 4 on the Drummers Mt. Rushmore?  John Bonham?  Nah, we can't have all Brits...how 'bout Buddy Miles?  

    Parent

    Or Buddy Rich? (5.00 / 0) (#75)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 03:30:59 PM EST
    I was lucky enough to be tutored by BR as a kid.  Amazing technique...

    Parent
    I've got it... (none / 0) (#77)
    by kdog on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 03:36:31 PM EST
    I should be shot for forgetting him, even for a second.

    LEVON HELM!!!!!

    Parent

    And vocalist too as I recall (none / 0) (#81)
    by easilydistracted on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 03:42:26 PM EST
    Drummers who could sing always put me in awe (and I don't mean like Ringo either on that damned You Know it don't come easy)

    Parent
    Me too. (none / 0) (#83)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 03:50:00 PM EST
    I never had the coordination to do both.  Trying to sing always put me off the beat.  Hard enough to get my feet and hands to cooperate with my brain!

    Parent
    BTW 'Mile and 'Dog... (none / 0) (#91)
    by easilydistracted on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 04:14:24 PM EST
    With me it wasn't an inability to carry a beat and sing; it was an inability to carry a tune, according to all the other members of the band

    Parent
    Yeah... (none / 0) (#84)
    by kdog on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 03:50:20 PM EST
    I don't know how he does it...if the knock-around bands I've been in I was banned from providing any back-up vocals because I'd inevitably miss a beat....that sh*t is hard.

    I love Ringo...unique style that I only recently learned is all because he plays lefthanded on a right handed kit.  Seems like such a cool down to earth guy too....I go nuts for "Don't Pass Me By"...that song is the bees knees.

    Parent

    Neil Pert (none / 0) (#152)
    by Amiss on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 11:17:47 PM EST
    always was awesome to me.

    Parent
    Damn. I'm impressed (none / 0) (#78)
    by easilydistracted on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 03:36:44 PM EST
    Rich, Krupa, Corky Lang(e), Miles. Come to think of it, us Yanks had some pretty damned decent drummers.

    Parent
    Nah, here ya go, 'Dog: (none / 0) (#73)
    by easilydistracted on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 03:29:46 PM EST
    Carmen Appice (Vanilla Fudge, Cactus). S**t, was he a brit, too?

    Parent
    More like aquaintances (none / 0) (#76)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 03:36:17 PM EST
    He used to have a nice little restuarant up in Carbondale (along with a ranch) and then moved to a spread down in Parker and got into polo ponies.  

    He was going a lot of gigs with Ron Miles and I would see him here and there, like the local jazz place--and we would always end-up talking "shop".  Never got into his financial shape though.

    Parent

    Circa? (none / 0) (#79)
    by easilydistracted on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 03:39:29 PM EST
    I lived in Highlands Ranch (good old Douglas County) during the late 80s early 90s. Just up the road from Parker. In fact two of my co-workers had some small spreads with horses, in the Parker and Franktown I believe.

    Parent
    Ah yes, the Ranch... (none / 0) (#82)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 03:47:23 PM EST
    ...GOP heaven!  I used to live right across County Line from HR in what's now Centennial at Quebec. Wasn't much different.  

    It was probably about 10 years ago or so by now?  

    Parent

    Our local celebrity at the Ranch (none / 0) (#88)
    by easilydistracted on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 04:06:23 PM EST
    when I lived there was Gary Coleman. He used to hang out at that bowling alley at County Line and University. What a dork! I seem to recall a fairly decent Italian restaurant at Quebec and County Line. I used to frequent a liquor store there, too.  Ahhh its all coming back. I saw Clapton at the old McNichols Arena. Best seats I ever had at a concert: floor seats, 2nd row from the stage and the first four seats from the middle aisle. "An Evening With Eric Clapton" was the name of the tour. 3.5 hours of Clapton. Gentlemen, life was good that evening.

    Parent
    Yes, well, I didn't know any better (none / 0) (#90)
    by easilydistracted on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 04:10:34 PM EST
    I was transferring there from Springfield, Mo. After three years in that place,(sorry Brad Pitt) as far as I was concerned, anyplace else would be a bastion of liberals.  

    Parent
    A recreation of Dr. Thompson's... (none / 0) (#35)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 02:07:55 PM EST
    ...Fear and Loathing?  I guess I could live with that...

    Parent
    That is why you have a staff (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by samtaylor2 on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 01:58:19 PM EST
    Who reads parts of it and tells you what you think should be important.  Even if you did read 1323 pages, the percentage of people that could recall what is on page 1011 would be tiny.  

    Parent
    Maybe we should... (none / 0) (#36)
    by kdog on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 02:08:35 PM EST
    vote for the staffers and let them appoint the figurehead, if they are the ones doing the actual legislating.

    Parent
    It's how Congress works (none / 0) (#17)
    by andgarden on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 01:49:31 PM EST
    Complaining about the size and scope of a bill is about as stupid as complaining about earmarks. This is just how it works if you want to do good things.

    Parent
    I see... (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by kdog on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 01:59:31 PM EST
    the old "because thats the way it is".  Not really as answer, but fair enough.  The sun must rise in the east and congressional bills must be 1400 pages of willy-nilly.

    Though I don't think requiring them to read it is too much to ask, and I'm not sold you can't "do good things" with bills of limited scope.  

    Parent

    One of the most common ways (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by andgarden on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 02:00:45 PM EST
    to slow down legislation is to make the clerk read the text. It's stupid.

    Parent
    So that whole (none / 0) (#23)
    by coast on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 01:58:16 PM EST
    change thing during the election wasn't really about change.  Nice to know that now.

    Parent
    It was a political slogan (none / 0) (#26)
    by andgarden on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 01:59:26 PM EST
    Anyone with half a brain knew that it was phony.

    Parent
    To quote the TL comment policy (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by Cream City on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 02:11:37 PM EST
    "insults against other commenters" are not allowed, andgarden.:-)

    Parent
    heh (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by andgarden on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 02:13:57 PM EST
    Not to worry, it felt like a compliment (5.00 / 2) (#53)
    by coast on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 02:31:55 PM EST
    usually my wife says I don't have a brain at all.

    Parent
    That's why they have staff (none / 0) (#66)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 03:06:18 PM EST
    Ordinarily, staff with expertise reads the page-by-page and briefs the congresscritter, highlighting the stuff the CC is most interested/involved in.

    Perfectly reasonable, IMHO.  The staff writes the bills to begin with, and it has to be done with a great deal of legal/legislative mumbo-jumbo.  I'd far rather my (and everyone else's) CC concentrated on policy details and left the legalese up to good staff to deal with.

    Parent

    Amazing (none / 0) (#72)
    by Wile ECoyote on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 03:25:51 PM EST
    Hurry up and vote.  Don't read.  Time is of the essence.

    Parent
    Here's How... (none / 0) (#50)
    by santarita on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 02:27:11 PM EST
    1.  Republicans don't have to read any of it, because they are not going to vote for it even if contained a clause that said that Ronald Reagan was a saint.

    2.  Staffers do the heavy lifting in terms of reading every jot and tittle.

    3.  I assume that they all have been given a revision-marked copy.


    Parent
    I think they have staffers (none / 0) (#114)
    by BernieO on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 05:18:44 PM EST
    supposedly with expertise that read the relevant parts of bills. Life in the modern world. There is no way any one person can be knowledgeable enough to understand everything they need to know to funcion so they have to rely on others.

    Parent
    Jeez (none / 0) (#6)
    by andgarden on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 01:36:47 PM EST
    Anh Cao indicated that he would probably vote for it. He didn't, so he's further guaranteed to be a one-term wonder.

    Parent
    Dan Lipinski, (none / 0) (#16)
    by KeysDan on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 01:49:29 PM EST
    like his father before him, is really a right wing conservative.  The Democratic party is just the political genetics playing itself out.

    Parent
    But, what if it doesn't do enough to (none / 0) (#33)
    by Inspector Gadget on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 02:07:31 PM EST
    stimulate the economy? Would he still lose re-election if he was one of the few who saw it as a seriously flawed bill?


    Parent
    he represents a minority black district by fluke (none / 0) (#41)
    by andgarden on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 02:13:19 PM EST
    He'll lose no matter what.

    Parent
    by fluke? (none / 0) (#45)
    by 1jpb on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 02:20:31 PM EST
    I like the euphemism.

    Parent
    Oh, and (none / 0) (#7)
    by andgarden on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 01:38:03 PM EST
    Dan Lipinski voted present. Probably because they put the family planning stuff back in.

    Parent
    But still 7 democrats voted against it (none / 0) (#38)
    by Saul on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 02:10:10 PM EST
    In a funny way the republicans are more united.

    Parent
    The Simple Joys (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by SOS on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 01:47:19 PM EST
    I love (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by eric on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 01:49:12 PM EST
    cats.  That's great.

    Parent
    So what I translate from this (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by Cream City on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 02:19:41 PM EST
    after watching the activities of my cats, is that the cat on the left -- let's call it the leftie cat -- was willing to lick the cat on the right.

    But that the cat on the right -- the rightie cat, as it were -- really wanted the leftie cat to lick, um, another portion of the anatomy.

    Good for leftie cat for prevailing.  Now, could we send this to little lesson to our humans, left and right, in so-called "leadership" in this country?  So that they could learn that it's good to get your licks in -- as long as you're not willing to lick the other guy's a**?

    Parent

    I love that video (none / 0) (#67)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 03:10:07 PM EST
    Love the handsome kitties, too.

    I've had cats that talked all the time, but never two at once so that there'd be a conversation like that.

    Parent

    We need to do this more often. (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by Fabian on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 02:57:34 PM EST
    2 1/2 days of no power due to wind storm.  3 1/2 days a mere six months ago due to TS Ike.

    I need a little more practice - two more times perhaps - and I'll be an expert on emergency preparedness.  My firewood will be stacked and dry.  I'll be able to brew coffee in a jerry can or at least boil water for tea on the grill.  Maybe I'll even build a wood fired oven for fresh baked bread!

    A triple insulated cooler would be good.  The refrigerator warms up far too fast and you can't always find ice.

    On the plus side, school was unaffected which helped to keep my son's anxiety levels low.  We did have to rendezvous at an alternate bus stop due to having our road completely blocked by downed lines.

    Like I said - a few more times and I'll be a emergency management pro!

    Oy! (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 03:21:01 PM EST
    Yes, by all means, make sure you have a supply of firewood handy.  Dry is nice, but not necessary, especially in an emergency.  Get a supply of fatwood or Super Cedars or other firestarter to have on hand, plus a bag of dry kindling, and you'll be fine.  Rain or snow doesn't penetrate very far into firewood, so it dries out quickly either on the fire or piled just outside the hearth in the "safe" zone.

    Get a little Sterno stove.  Much easier to deal with then jerry cans or the grill when all you want is coffee.

    And don't forget if it's below 40 outside, your food will keep just fine out there, far better than in your dying fridge, as long as you can protect it from critters.

    Glad it's all OK now.  Very smart of the town to keep the schools open, I think.

    Parent

    We are fine now. (none / 0) (#135)
    by Fabian on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 06:46:11 PM EST
    But there's nothing like fielding a call from Transportation telling you that your bus isn't coming due to downed lines.  Gee, now what? I'm not taking my kids anywhere near downed lines!

    Fortunately, we can cut across one yard to be in another subdivision that has a different access road - so we met the buses there instead.  

    I really need a extremely well insulated cooler.  It's nerve wracking to have food in the frig but be unable to access it for fear of having to toss everything should it warm up.  Ike taught us that ice may be almost impossible to get.  

    Maybe I should just go to the hardware store and use the highest R value insulation I can find to surround a super sized tub or garbage can.  I don't need it to be portable, just hold its temperature.  (I wouldn't use metal of course.)

    Parent

    A while back - before the election - there (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by scribe on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 08:32:28 PM EST
    was a series of really-detailed posts over at Kos on how to prepare for emergencies, what to have on hand, what sort of coolers and all that.

    They were really well written and informative.  

    If, however, you have the room for it, you can find gas-powered fridges in the ads in sportsmens'/outdoors newspapers.  They are very popular up in Maine, where the cabin (the locals call them "camps") could be 10 or 20 miles down a logging road and far from power.  They work really well.  You could get a 25 pound cylinder of gas, store it in the fridge and leave the whole thing in the garage, disconnected and turned off until the power goes out, and then hook up and transfer what you have from the electric fridge to the gas fridge.  You probably shouldn't use one of those inside a well-insulated/closed-in house, though.  

    Alternatively (and this is quite a bit more wasteful b/c you have to run the car), you may have seen the gut trucks that sell coffee and such at construction sites will have coolers - really cooler-sized refrigerators - in the cab, run off the lighter outlet.  

    And, finally, my latest edition of Cabela's catalog (so big, they put it in a hard binding) has solar trickle chargers, including a couple that are foldable and supposedly give enough juice to run a cell phone, a computer, or similar small electronics.  They aren't cheap, but they aren't expensive, either.  

    Parent

    Gas fridge (5.00 / 1) (#155)
    by gyrfalcon on Sat Feb 14, 2009 at 12:18:17 AM EST
    is a good idea.  Folks around here generally have at least small generators, just enough to power the refrigerator and a couple of lights-- or the computer-- which cost very little more than the gas fridge, I think.  You haul the generator out of the barn and just run an extension cord out to it.

    I haven't gotten one myself because my superb neighbors, one of whom is a Ph.D. electrical engineer and really knows his stuff, got a big generator after the terrible ice storm here some years ago, and have warmly invited me to come live with them if it ever happens again.

    With my woodstove, I can manage without power as long as the temperature doesn't head down to zero and below, but it's really great to know I have a refuge if I need it.

    Parent

    I'm more for low tech solutions. (none / 0) (#160)
    by Fabian on Sat Feb 14, 2009 at 06:55:11 AM EST
    Although my one neighbor has a natural gas generator.  I've never seen it, but it kicks in automatically when the power dies and there's no fumes.

    There's always issues with fueled generators - the fuel, the load and so on.  I've also got a five year old who wants to know how everything works.  He's saved me a bundle - whenever I want to buy something, I just figure out whether it will stand up to his curiousity.  

    I've been completely unimpressed with the insulation of coolers and my refrigerator.  Certainly you should be able to get better R-values than that without too much effort.  

    This link looks very promising.  A DIY project that could be scaled up or down.  It's not all that different than I was thinking of.


    Parent

    IHMO, there are two additional advantages (5.00 / 1) (#161)
    by scribe on Sat Feb 14, 2009 at 07:56:54 AM EST
    to the gas-powered fridge (actually several aspects of the same advantage).

    1.  It's quiet.  As compared to a generator, it makes no noise.  After all, it was designed to operate inside.  This means (a) you won't have to listen to it and, more importantly (b) your neighbors won't hear it and know that "Fabian has power, so let's see if we can snag some of it for ourselves."

    2.  Since it was designed to operate just like a regular fridge (just on gas instead of electricity), you won't have to be waking up in the middle of the night to tend the generator or, failing that, worry about losing refrigeration.  In the words of the infomercial (for a different product) "set it and forget it".

    But, I guess as with all things, preparedness is the key.  Getting the little prefatory steps done before - well before - anything happens is probably the most important thing.  Right now, in my building, we have a stack of a dozen or so garden center bags of dirt parked in a corner.  Why?  So we can sandbag in the event of flooding from a sudden downpour overwhelming the storm sewers.  They just sit there.  But, if/when needed, this time they will be available.

    Parent
    All good points (5.00 / 1) (#163)
    by gyrfalcon on Sat Feb 14, 2009 at 12:13:11 PM EST
    Small generators do get stolen in extended power outages, apparently.  I read about one group of thieves who would sneak up to the house (not hard with the generator noise for cover) with a long extension cord, quickly patch it in so the home's occupants would only notice a power blip for a couple of seconds, then load the generator on the back of the pick-up truck and drive away.  When the extension cord pulled out when they were at the end of the drive, it was too late for the owners to catch them.  Pretty diabolical!

    Preparedness is key, yes, but you don't always know what you need to be prepared for until it happens and you aren't!

    Parent

    Bags of dirt (none / 0) (#164)
    by Fabian on Sat Feb 14, 2009 at 02:51:17 PM EST
    can't get much lower tech than that!

    Parent
    But when you need them (none / 0) (#165)
    by scribe on Sat Feb 14, 2009 at 04:25:06 PM EST
    to stop the overflow from cascading into the basement and filling it two feet deep, there is no substitute.

    Parent
    Tis true! (none / 0) (#166)
    by Fabian on Sun Feb 15, 2009 at 09:29:54 AM EST
    I do love off grid tech gadgets though - even though I've haven't bought one of them yet.

    Parent
    I need an open thread hug. (5.00 / 3) (#92)
    by Teresa on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 04:40:02 PM EST
    My step-daughter has a big fat F in Algebra II. She has been on strong notice that if she doesn't bring that up immediately, no boyfriend, no car, etc. I can check her grades online and she got a zero for not turning in homework Wednesday.

    My husband left her a note that she can't see her boyfriend tonight or tomorrow (she's grounded) and then took off for a ride on his motorcycle. I am left here to be the bad guy.

    She told me that by grounding her, it makes her want to do even worse. She said she didn't turn it in because she didn't get through and didn't want a bad grade. I told her she can't do lower than zero.

    I think my husband is a chicken-s*it, don't ya'll?

    Totally (5.00 / 2) (#93)
    by squeaky on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 04:44:20 PM EST
    What a wimp. Sounds like your step daughter needs help, and taking off on a motorcycle is terrible model. I am sure your step daughter would like to do the same thing at this point.

    Big hugs to you..

    Parent

    She has an A in chemistry so it is a total (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by Teresa on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 05:04:01 PM EST
    lack of effort. She knows how to play her dad against his ex-wife so, yeah, he chickened out on this one. He'll be back in a little while. We've have some big fights with her for the first time ever and he can't deal with it. She can stab him right in the heart.

    We've tried tutoring and everything. She has always been able to talk him out of grounding (it usually lasts about three hours) so he is probably responsible for her not believing us. Her F is due to not doing any of her homework. Those zeroes add up.


    Parent

    Oy (5.00 / 2) (#109)
    by squeaky on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 05:12:22 PM EST
    Powerstruggles are not pretty..  sounds like algebra is the least of it.

    Wonder why algebra is the currency in the struggle, and Chemistry is not in the ring.

    Parent

    The chemistry teacher doesn't give (5.00 / 1) (#113)
    by Teresa on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 05:18:21 PM EST
    homework. It's those worksheets in algebra that she just won't do. Her grade wouldn't be good, but she'd be passing if you took away the zeroes for homework not done. She also has an almost A in Spanish II. Same thing, no homework to do at night.

    Parent
    I See (5.00 / 2) (#120)
    by squeaky on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 05:24:14 PM EST
    Her homework is her boyfriend. Makes sense. Be great if the boyfriend was into Algebra II, and on your side. Not likely though..

    Parent
    No, not on our side. She told me that he is the (5.00 / 1) (#124)
    by Teresa on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 05:33:06 PM EST
    one that told her that we are "controlling her". I love all teenagers but I'm starting to not like this one so much. He has terrible grades (he goes to a different school) and his parents aren't so concerned. They said some kids just aren't cut out for college. That's true, but his mom is an RN and his dad is a Chemist for one of the companies in Oak Ridge. Weird Squeaky.

    Parent
    Sounds Bad (5.00 / 2) (#130)
    by squeaky on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 05:49:46 PM EST
    And I am sure he is all the more appealing for your step-daughter because he is against you. Rebellion is important as a teen, although hopefully she will take care of herself in the process of forming her own identity. I'm sure she will.

    Sounds like Algebra is going to be dogging her in the summer if she isn't careful, that would be no fun.

    Parent

    hug (5.00 / 2) (#95)
    by jedimom on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 04:52:56 PM EST
    that sucks! he needs a kick in the axx! and algebra ii sucks too..my daughter is turning 20 this summer, you will breathe again and be headache free in a few years :0)

    Parent
    She's a junior this year. I've always told her (none / 0) (#104)
    by Teresa on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 05:06:59 PM EST
    she can live with me until she's 30 if she wants to. It wasn't until this boyfriend came along that we've had any issues. It makes me sad. She has gone from loving us to hating us. She says we try to "control her life". Ha. I thought that's what parents were for.

    Parent
    Well, not sure what your husband is, (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by Inspector Gadget on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 04:54:13 PM EST
    but, my experience raising a boy and a girl all by myself was the easiest route to success was to praise what they did well, and reward it. Neither of my kids ever got grounded or put in time out for anything. That worked really well for all of us.

    Not all kids/teens respond this way, so you have to do what works for you and yours. If grounding doesn't provide the results you were hoping for, it is time to look at coming at the problem from a different direction until you find what works.

    I know my kids really well, and I understood their priorities, potentials, and learned to pick my battles with them - there were few. I don't like listening to myself hollar, and I really don't like the energy of angry people in my space.

    I'm enjoying watching my daughter parent with the same style and getting the same results.

    Parent

    We do reward her when she does well. (none / 0) (#97)
    by Teresa on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 04:58:19 PM EST
    Too much probably. We have to draw a line somewhere. She has learned to play the "I want to live with my mother card on us" every time we try to discipline her. Her mother agrees she is better off here so that won't work but she is terrific at putting guilt trips on us. Especially her dad.

    Parent
    Hmmmm (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by Inspector Gadget on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 05:05:37 PM EST
    well, it sounds like she's got the upper hand, then.

    Good luck.

    And, you do deserve a hug...it's tough to raise teen girls who rule.


    Parent

    She definitely has the upper hand at least (none / 0) (#108)
    by Teresa on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 05:10:44 PM EST
    until now. Unless she is mad at us, she's the coolest kid I know and I love her dearly. I hope it's just boyfriend hormones at work.

    Parent
    Big hug from me (5.00 / 2) (#105)
    by andgarden on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 05:07:05 PM EST
    And sympathy for your step-daughter. I celebrated my hard-earned Bs on math class.

    Parent
    *in (5.00 / 1) (#107)
    by andgarden on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 05:07:39 PM EST
    You got it sister.... (5.00 / 3) (#129)
    by kdog on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 05:41:53 PM EST
    Junior year is that age T, my nephew is a junior and he's becoming too cool for school with his grades slippin' a little, running around with his girl all the time.  Tough nuts to crack at that age, ya talk and ya know they ain't listening... not to cool crazy uncles, and especially not to parents.  You just keep doin' the best you can. And I'm sure they'll find their way like we found ours...

    Your husband sounds like my brother, he's putty in his daughter's hands.  Go easy on 'em, but let him know it ain't cool.

    Parent

    I think he tries to be all things to her (5.00 / 2) (#131)
    by Teresa on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 05:58:20 PM EST
    because her mom isn't around. She (the mom) got busted for crack! when this little girl was five. That's what she was spending the our child support money on. We brought her here to live with us and he has always given in too easily.

    I give the birth mom credit though, she has made a decent life for herself 11 years later and it totally on our side. She lives 150 miles away so she is phone help.

    Parent

    No doubt it's hard... (5.00 / 2) (#133)
    by kdog on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 06:41:03 PM EST
    harder than I can imagine...I don't envy your job as a parent.

    They're all lucky to have you, and so are we, that's all I know kid. Good luck riding this one out:)

    Parent

    thank you kdog. I think your nieces and (5.00 / 1) (#146)
    by Teresa on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 09:10:24 PM EST
    nephews have one terrific uncle.

    Parent
    Parenting hug! (5.00 / 1) (#136)
    by Fabian on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 07:21:56 PM EST
    I read the entire thread and I'll offer this quote, from Jim Henson, creator of The Muppet Show.
    Usually adolescence is a time when kids feel that the world is doing it to them, whether it's their parents doing it to it to them or their teachers or their other friends doing it to them, and that they are the victim of all of this.  Somewhere in here, you have to learn that you're not the victim, but instead you're the one that's doing it.  That moment is sometimes a long slow realization or sometimes it's turning on a light switch.  All of a sudden you realize that you are the person who has control of your life.


    Parent
    What a perfect quote. That, and what Anne (5.00 / 1) (#144)
    by Teresa on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 09:01:41 PM EST
    said below perfectly describes this situation. I think I will print this off for her.

    We just had World War III with her. She got her boyfriend's mom to text her dad about how with tomorrow being Valentine's day, could T. spend the day with them, etc. He texted back no and explained why. The mom told the boyfriend who told her and she went nuts. She was battling me, my husband, and her mom on the phone.

    Finally, my husband called the boyfriend's mom (and made me do the talking!) and she talked to T. for a long time and settled her down some.

    She has finally settled down and apologized (how sincere I'm not sure) but she still thinks it is the teacher's fault, not hers. What a night. What a girl. Thank you for that quote. I am going to show it to her.

    Boyfriends sure do complicate the situation. We've never had issues this bad until now.

    Parent

    Oh, lordy, T - here's a hug from me. (5.00 / 2) (#137)
    by Anne on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 08:04:51 PM EST
    It's such a turbulent time, and all they can see is the moment.  They will fight you tooth-and-nail for cramping their style and not letting them make their own decisions, but if you were to let go and let her go her own way, she'd be railing at you for not saving her from herself and making her buckle down.  It's the damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't age and I used to think I could feel the grey hairs just springing out all over my poor head.

    The worst thing is that you can get locked into such set patterns of behavior, and she thinks what she's counting on is for you to just wear out and give up.

    If you havne't read Raising Ophelia, I highly recommend it for some great insights and for the courage to keep up the discipline and structure.

    I used to tell my girls that no one was going to care that she didn't like this teacher, or thought that teacher was unfair - or was bored or just didn't like whatever the course was; it was all about keeping the doors open that would determine which opportunities would be available at a later time.  And that they wouldn't know until it was too late that they should not have allowed some of those doors to close.

    Honestly, I think at this stage they're just tired of the academics - they start pushing them in elementary school and there's no let-up.

    Hang in there; it will get better.

    Parent

    Thank you Anne. I should order that book. (5.00 / 1) (#145)
    by Teresa on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 09:07:56 PM EST
    It is the long-term education situation that she just doesn't understand. Her little boyfriend isn't going to college (you have to choose in high school here a college route or a vocational one) so now she has decided it isn't as big a deal as it used to be.

    I want her to get an education. Mine got me through a rough time and allowed me to live independently for a long time. She thinks she can live on wages from restaurant work, I guess. It's easy when someone else is paying for the cell phone, car, insurance, home, etc.

    I've been lucky that I never had to deal with a rebellious teen before. It is interesting, to say the least! When she isn't mad, we have the best time laughing at the crazy things she says when she is fighting with us.

    Parent

    At some point, you can realize (5.00 / 2) (#147)
    by Anne on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 09:30:32 PM EST
    that even if you know, or believe, that a college education would be the best way to go, as long as your step-daughter is not otherwise heading down the "wrong" path, there isn't anything wrong with her learning for herself that college is the better option - even if she doesn't come to that conclusion in time to be one of the many making the trek to college the August after she graduates from high school.

    My older daughter told us when she was a junior that she did not want to go to college right after high school; she wanted to spend the summer after high school traveling with friends (which she did, and had a wonderful time, even if we were at home biting our fingernails the whole time), and then she wanted to keep working and see what she wanted to do.  She did that, lived at home, then later, with her boyfriend who is now her husband - and realized she wanted more, and wanted to go back to school.  Which she did.  She did it her way, on her timeline, and I think she may appreciate it more for having done it that way.

    It may have been harder for us to explain why we didn't "make" our daughter go to college to all the people we knew whose kids just marched in lock step off to higher education, but we managed; people still looked at us like we were nuts - hello, peer pressure!

    Younger daughter, who was never at the top of the heap academically, did some community college, worked here and there at this and that, and then landed a job with her best friend's dad's orthodontic practice, loves it, and is taking all the certification classes for orthodontic assistant  and x-ray certification and could not be happier.

    Somehow, the combination of knowing your child, and your child knowing that you believe in her, seems to help.

    It was really so much easier when they were toddlers, lol.

    Parent

    I actually think she is one of those kids (5.00 / 1) (#148)
    by Teresa on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 09:55:25 PM EST
    who would probably benefit from taking a year or so away from school before she starts.

    I have a niece that is a pre-med major with a 3.9 GPA in North Carolina. It took her four years and all kinds of messes for herself before she matured enough to do it. I'm very proud of her. She's a 24 year old junior but it was worth the wait.

    Let's see if we can make it through tomorrow. It's her first Valentine's Day with a real boyfriend and it's tough to say no. She is convinced that he is "the one". I wouldn't be a teenager again for anything.

    Parent

    He is the one? (5.00 / 1) (#150)
    by Fabian on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 10:50:44 PM EST
    Well, if he really is The One, then he will want her to do her best and be the best person she can be.  Including doing her homework.

    Parent
    Vote still open. . . . (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by andgarden on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 05:16:48 PM EST
    Not good.

    I see we're waiting for (5.00 / 1) (#115)
    by andgarden on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 05:20:58 PM EST
    Gillibrand, Bayh, and Brown.

    Gillibrand had a horrible plane crash in her state yesterday, and Brown was supposedly attending his mothers funeral. I don't know where Bayh is.

    Parent

    Oh, is that enough to kill it? It is, isn't it? (none / 0) (#118)
    by Teresa on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 05:22:34 PM EST
    Yup (none / 0) (#119)
    by andgarden on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 05:24:00 PM EST
    C-SPAN tells us that we're stuck at 57. I guess that means that one of Specter, Collins, and Snowe switched their votes. Or, that C-SPAN miscounted. I had to run away, so I didn't listen to the vote.

    Parent
    The vote (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by CoralGables on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 05:39:06 PM EST
    you are missing is Ted Kennedy. He didn't make it back to DC today. With the three outstanding votes it will be 60 by the end of the night.

    Parent
    Ah, I thought he was sticking around (none / 0) (#128)
    by andgarden on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 05:40:40 PM EST
    The Magic Number (5.00 / 2) (#149)
    by CoralGables on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 10:24:15 PM EST
    has been reached. Sherrod Brown did the trip back to DC and was the 60th vote this evening. Now he flies back to Ohio again tonight for his mother's funeral which is tomorrow morning.

    Parent
    I saw a report on that. Really sad (none / 0) (#151)
    by Cream City on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 10:56:40 PM EST
    and all so that the bill could be signed on President's Weekend, the original goal.

    So what?  Life happens.  Death happens.  They could have moved the goalposts by even a day to let the man mourn with his family.  

    Parent

    Or the Republicans (5.00 / 2) (#153)
    by andgarden on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 11:31:07 PM EST
    could have agreed to waive to 60 vote requirement.

    Parent
    Good point. (none / 0) (#154)
    by Cream City on Sat Feb 14, 2009 at 12:01:09 AM EST
    So either side could have exhibited humanity.

    Parent
    Or Mel Martinez (none / 0) (#157)
    by CoralGables on Sat Feb 14, 2009 at 12:25:04 AM EST
    the Republican Senator from Florida, who is not running for re-election, could have followed the wishes of Florida's Republican Governor and voted Yes.

    Parent
    If it didn't happen tonight (none / 0) (#158)
    by andgarden on Sat Feb 14, 2009 at 12:27:31 AM EST
    the country would have had to wait a week. States needed this money ASAP, so time really was of the essence. What value the Republicans got from requiring 60 votes in this case is really not clear to me.

    Parent
    Really? The check is in the mail (none / 0) (#159)
    by Cream City on Sat Feb 14, 2009 at 01:20:16 AM EST
    Monday?  Wait, I think there isn't mail on Monday.  Oh well, money is all wired anyway, these days.

    Yeh, my gov gives his budget message Tuesday.  But it already has leaked, since he already knows what we're getting (half of what we would have gotten in the House bill, btw).  So I don't see how it would make a difference, if it's clear that the money is coming?

    Parent

    Or, he could have voted via satellite (none / 0) (#162)
    by Inspector Gadget on Sat Feb 14, 2009 at 10:47:56 AM EST
    video conference.

    I don't honestly believe that the senate should stop for the life events of just one person. If that were the case, they would have had to delay the vote until Kennedy was well enough to show up.

    Course, if they had worked harder to get another Republican to vote AYE that would have solved the problem, too.


    Parent

    The Senate Vote? (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by CoralGables on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 05:24:34 PM EST
    it's staying open until 9:30 I believe. Sherrod Brown is at the wake for his mother and flying back to vote tonight.

    Parent
    I should have clarified (5.00 / 1) (#122)
    by CoralGables on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 05:30:31 PM EST
    that's 9:30 TL time and 10:30 ET

    Parent
    I missed that tidbit (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by andgarden on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 05:32:05 PM EST
    It's probably against the rules, but obviously no one's going to object. WTF are Bayh and Gillibrand?

    Parent
    I guess they know they have until 10 to get (none / 0) (#125)
    by Teresa on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 05:37:19 PM EST
    there. Is C-SPAN going with a soundless program until then? I guess I have time to get some stuff done now.

    Parent
    Dolly Parton is answering questions (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by andgarden on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 05:39:05 PM EST
    on CSPAN-3.

    Parent
    I don't understand why. Collins, Snowe, (none / 0) (#116)
    by Teresa on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 05:21:22 PM EST
    Nelson and Specter all voted yes unless I heard wrong. Who could the holdout be? Lieberman also voted yes.

    Parent
    Great speech, ignorant public (5.00 / 2) (#117)
    by Dr Molly on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 05:21:47 PM EST
    Obama gave a really great speech on Lincoln yesterday, IMO. It was excellent in many ways. As usual, I was happy when he talked about revitalizing America's potential for scientific and technological innovation. He even did the unthinkable - gave props to Charles Darwin publicly! From the speech on Lincoln:

    "He fueled new enterprises with a national currency, spurred innovation, and ignited America's imagination with a national academy of sciences, believing we must, as he put it, add "the fuel of interest to the fire of genius in the discovery...of new and useful things." And on this day, that is also the bicentennial of Charles Darwin's birth, let us renew that commitment to science and innovation once more."

    That was thrilling to me.

    Then, I happened to read in the paper today that a new Gallup poll reports that only 39% of Americans believe in evolution. Sigh.

    Meanwhile, some good news: (none / 0) (#4)
    by andgarden on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 01:30:17 PM EST
    Ed Rendell says that he's satisfied with the state aid in the conference report:

    Rendell, who is relying on an infusion of federal money to balance the state budget, warned this week that if Congress approved the Senate's pared-down version of the stimulus package, Pennsylvanians should be prepared for severe pain from state budget cuts.

    In the end, discretionary funding for governors to plug budget holes was reduced from $79 billion in the House bill to $39 billion, the amount contained in the Senate version.

    But Rendell said that by drawing $600 million over two years from the stimulus package's school-district funding, the state would be able to meet its budget estimates without hurting Pennsylvania school districts.

    "I thought what we got in House bill was very generous and helpful," he said. "But we roughed out with essentially the same as the House bill."

    As a result, Rendell said, he will not have to make the additional 1,500 job cuts and even deeper agency funding reductions that he had predicted under the original Senate bill earlier this week.


    So the stimulus isn't enough, but it seems like it should lessen the sting.

    latest housing rant (none / 0) (#11)
    by jedimom on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 01:44:06 PM EST
    from me, Shaun Donovan HUD Secty gave a speech today saying there would be principal forbearance and loan extensions and subsidies for lower rates

    not HOLC not expansive enough, only via means testing for hardship, doesnt get the underwater loans or stop the decline in inventories from deeds in lieu of foreclosure in non recourse states which happen to be CA and AZ for two examples...

    WHY WHY WHY are they letting the banks write the housing proposal??? this is the same garbage plan that hasnt been working? the pymts arent low enough with loan extension and primcipal forebearance which is why they have been redefaulting as FDIC has been saying for over a year

    this is another clusterfrak that wont be fixed cause they arent being progressive and arent getting pressure form the left

    this sucks

    Obama to be in Phoeniz to announce housing plan Wed if I see him I will ask him about this, lol

    I did some checking (5.00 / 3) (#48)
    by Inspector Gadget on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 02:22:20 PM EST
    I bought a house in AZ late 2003 for $175,000 ($35,000 of that was in fantastic upgrades), sold it for $259,000 late 2005. It was foreclosed on last November and is now selling for $109,000.

    My opinion is that those numbers in that timeframe speaks volumes to what was happening with investors, banks/mortgage companies, and builders. The buyer was absolutely the victim and could never have predicted the dramatic downturn that was coming. They were trying to buy a home before they got so far out of reach, they would never be able to get into one.

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    Looking for Lincoln (none / 0) (#30)
    by samtaylor2 on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 02:01:40 PM EST
    Did anyone see it.  I thought it was great.  Gates does such a great job with his stuff.

    Sam, do you know why he walks with a cane now? (none / 0) (#39)
    by shoephone on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 02:10:57 PM EST
    That surprised me when I saw that. Hoping it is a temporary thing.

    His PBS film a few years back on his trip to Africa was great too.

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    No (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by samtaylor2 on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 02:21:04 PM EST
    Side story.  My buddies father grew up with him in west Virginia.  He came to speak at Oberlin and I had the good luck to be able to go out to dinner with him, my friend and his father while he was there.  

    Great guy, really down to earth.  It is cool to hang out with people who are that confident in their intelligence and knowledge that they don't need to prove anything.

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    You lucky dog. (none / 0) (#103)
    by shoephone on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 05:06:37 PM EST
    The africa Documentary was special (5.00 / 0) (#47)
    by samtaylor2 on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 02:22:03 PM EST
    Gates had a hip replacement (none / 0) (#74)
    by caseyOR on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 03:30:07 PM EST
    a year or two ago. My understanding is that there were some complications. Hence, the cane.

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    Thanks for that info. (none / 0) (#106)
    by shoephone on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 05:07:13 PM EST
    Help! (none / 0) (#37)
    by NJDem on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 02:08:58 PM EST
    I just reconnected with an old friend who apparently, to my surprise, is a Republican.  I received this e-mail from him (he's responding to me saying the stimulus needs to be bigger, more FDR-like) and I need a good response to his quote--but I'm so angry now I'm going to wait to draft it.  

    I'm going to look in the 'FDR Didn't Create Jobs' thread from a few days ago, but does anyone have advice how to answer this nonsense?:

    "As for FDR, let me quote this article by Peter Ferrara in the American Spectator:

    "By the end of the 1930s, even FDR's Treasury Secretary and close personal friend Henry Morgenthau told the House Ways and Means Committee, "We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work....I say, after eight years of this administration, we have just as much unemployment as when we started...and an enormous debt to boot."

    It didn't work. The way out of this is tax cuts. We need to keep more of our hard-earned money so we can spend it, and businesses need to reinvest and expand, thereby creating jobs."

    Thanks in advance!! :)

    Did he call himself that (none / 0) (#43)
    by Samuel on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 02:16:44 PM EST
    or are you assuming he's a Republican?

    Just tell him that if the government uses money it turns into 1.5 times the amount of money because of the 'multiplier' and by the time we need to pay that money back it won't matter because the stimulus will have worked.


    Parent

    Thanks Samuel, (none / 0) (#56)
    by NJDem on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 02:35:08 PM EST
    great response--very much appreciated.  

    No, I asked what he was because he made a comment the "fear conference" being about to start just before the president was coming on.  I was hoping he was a disgruntled Dem or even a Libertarian, I did not expect a true-blue Reaganite!
     

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    I was kidding... (none / 0) (#85)
    by Samuel on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 03:53:00 PM EST
    I'm a libertarian.  Ask your Reaganite friend how the hell tax cuts are tax cuts if you increase borrowing to finance the budget.  Ask him why paying taxes + interest in the future to recoup deficits is a good idea.

    Then tell him you agree that the stimulus plan is flawed and that the wage and price controls of the New Deal increased suffering by destroying agriculture and keeping food off the table.  

    After that there should be a moment of beauty, one in which you and your friend see the false left/right dichotomy for the farce and misdirection it is.  From then on the two of you will conduct debates on reason and principal.

    Parent

    This link (none / 0) (#51)
    by eric on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 02:27:24 PM EST
    will be helpful.  The charts tell the story.

    LINK


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    GDP Chart (none / 0) (#87)
    by Samuel on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 03:59:32 PM EST
    is meaningless.  If we just print a trillion dollars and burn it our GDP is a trillion higher...so let's do it.

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    It depends (none / 0) (#55)
    by bocajeff on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 02:32:41 PM EST
    Why do you want him to be wrong? Because he's a republican? What if he's right?

    My guess, is that the FDR stimulus didn't work. But what did work was his instilling confidence and placing safety nets around the public (which also instills confidence). Once business and consumers feel things are getting better then they behave that way - and in reverse also.

    I've never understood the reasoning that the other side has to be wrong. I could care less which side is right in an argument as long as we ascertain the truth.

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    Thanks Eric! (5.00 / 2) (#60)
    by NJDem on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 02:47:29 PM EST
    That's great.

    And no, he's not wrong because he's a Republican.  He's wrong because Reaganomics does. not. work..  

    The one thing the past primary thought me was that hypocrisy is alive and well in both parties and I never thought Dems had a monopoly on being right or good.  And I'm hardly the liberal as described by Wm. F. Buckley who "claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views."  

    As Tip O'Neill said, people have the right to their own opinions but not their own facts.  In this particular case, my Republican friend simply has the facts wrong.  

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    That business with Morgenthau (none / 0) (#68)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 03:13:15 PM EST
    has been decisively debunked, but I can't for the life of me remember the details.  Try Google on that part of it.

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    Not even... (none / 0) (#86)
    by Samuel on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 03:54:06 PM EST
    close to true.  Come on man.

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    You're freind is right (none / 0) (#110)
    by Slado on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 05:15:06 PM EST
    Tax cuts work

    The problem is it's all relative to how much debt the government is carrying.

    Republicans cut taxes during the Bush years but they didn't decrease spending.  In fact they waged two wars, chased terrorists here and all over the world, passed No Child Left Behind, Prescription Drug Bills and spent like drunken sailors...or Nancy Pelosi.

    If spending worked ask yourself...how did we get here?   Government spending went up with the deficit over the last 8 years and becaue democrats are going to now increase it that's going to fix everything?

    Doesn't make sense to me.  You're frinds right but that's only half the story.

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    oh noes gibbs on housing (none / 0) (#94)
    by jedimom on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 04:51:14 PM EST
    wowG ibbs apparently totally rolled back all expectations of Obamas grand housing speech in Phoenix Wednesday...

    see Reuters UK here,
    he said we should be 'realistic'

    gee that sounds hopeful


    But, but, but (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by Inspector Gadget on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 05:03:05 PM EST
    I remember vividly seeing the voters in south Chicago beaming with joy that with Obama in the WH they would never again have to worry about their mortgage payments. Who set that expectation if not the Obama campaign?


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    Show me (5.00 / 2) (#143)
    by JThomas on Fri Feb 13, 2009 at 09:00:05 PM EST
    one link that indicated the Obama campaign ever told people they would never have to make their mortgage payments.

    That is ludicrous and misleading..give it up,the election if over.

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