home

Broder's Last Stand

Seeing that High Broderism Nation is crumbling, Broder makes his last stand. Of course, the reality is Broder now has to redefine "bipartisanship" to claim it has a place in politics.

Picking off the support of 1 or 2 Republican Senators now constitutes "bipartisanship." If that is all it means now (when necessary), then I too am a High Broderist for "bipartisanship." Of course that is not at all what Broder meant by bipartisanship before. But this is a good thing. Politics is about defining the middle. "Bipartisanship" has now been defined much further to the Left than before. A win for Obama and progressives.

Speaking for me only

< Burris Was Always "Just A Liability" | WaPo Op-Ed Page A Fact-Free Zone? >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


  • Display: Sort:
    As I recall (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by Steve M on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 11:17:08 AM EST
    this was pretty much Reagan's model for bipartisanship.  Win over a small group of ideologically sympathetic Democrats, and use them to push your agenda through.

    And Bush's. (3.00 / 1) (#10)
    by atdleft on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 11:19:30 AM EST
    Remember how Dumbya would often tout "Traitor Joe" Loserman to show hoe "bipartisan" he was? And how the MSM ate it up? So why can't Obama do the same with Collins, Snowe, & Specter?

    Parent
    Because Obama Is Not Bush (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by squeaky on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 11:21:35 AM EST
    In case you had not noticed.

    Parent
    Well, sure... (5.00 / 0) (#18)
    by atdleft on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 11:27:46 AM EST
    I don't actually want Obama to adopt Bush policies. Still, why can't he be a little more street-smart in defining "bipartisanship" for himself before the Beltway Pundits do it for him?

    Parent
    Because (none / 0) (#20)
    by squeaky on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 11:35:19 AM EST
    He would be laughed at and does not believe, like Bush, that if you repeat a lie often enough it becomes truth.

    And the beltway pundits will make fools of themselves no matter how Obama defines the center or bipartisanship.

    He claims to have learned a lesson in his attempt at bipartisanship over the stimulus bill. We'll see how that plays out.

    Parent

    Re your first paragraph: (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by oculus on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 12:08:02 PM EST
    there you go with the mindreading again.  

    Parent
    Not Mindreading (none / 0) (#36)
    by squeaky on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 12:17:49 PM EST
    But going on what Obama has said about his attempt at bipartisanship.

    Parent
    The part about not repeating something (none / 0) (#37)
    by oculus on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 12:21:03 PM EST
    endlessly.  

    Parent
    OK (none / 0) (#40)
    by squeaky on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 12:35:21 PM EST
    If you think that Obama willfully says the opposite of what is true over and over because he believes that like Goebbles the public will eventually believe it, I think you are off your trolley.

    To be clear, what I am referring to is the Susskind quote:

     

    "We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality." ...

    And the Goebbels quote:

    If you repeat a lie long enough, it becomes truth

    To me these two quotes sums up BushCo.

    Parent

    I have no idea whether President Obama (none / 0) (#58)
    by oculus on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 04:37:25 PM EST
    did, does, or will do this.  That's my point.

    Parent
    OK (none / 0) (#59)
    by squeaky on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 04:45:26 PM EST
    So for you he may be a Bush clone. I am certainly not in the tank for Obama but I do not see him as anything remotely like Bush.

    Parent
    I was and am disturbed about (none / 0) (#61)
    by oculus on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 04:50:20 PM EST
    his statement pre-Fisa revise vote compared to his actual vote.  Done deal, I know.

    Parent
    And the statement during the (none / 0) (#62)
    by oculus on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 04:55:21 PM EST
    GE debates about drawing down U.S. military forces in Iraq and moving them to Afghanistan. Compared to just sending more U.S. military to Afghanistana.

    Parent
    Yeah (none / 0) (#63)
    by squeaky on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 05:06:18 PM EST
    And I am too, and am sure that there will be lots that I disagree on, but to compare him to Bush, or any of his pals seems crazy to me.

    Parent
    You made the comparison, not me; (5.00 / 0) (#64)
    by oculus on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 05:32:34 PM EST
    but then I'm "off my trolley."

    Parent
    Oooookay (none / 0) (#65)
    by squeaky on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 05:34:07 PM EST
    Hey squeaky (none / 0) (#54)
    by cal1942 on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 03:31:52 PM EST
    like Bush, that if you repeat a lie often enough it becomes truth.

    Stop trying to steal St. Ronnies thunder.

    Let's give credit where credit's due.

    Parent

    Yeah (none / 0) (#56)
    by squeaky on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 04:14:58 PM EST
    It should come as no surprise that Cheney, Rumsfeld, Powel, Armitage, Rice et al refined their program that had started to develop under Nixon and Reagan. Of course their model was the third reich. The quote originated with Goebbels.

    Parent
    Yeah (none / 0) (#57)
    by cal1942 on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 04:21:45 PM EST
    with Herr Goebbels but the American version from Reagan spokesman Larry Speakes: (may not be an exact quote)

    'if you tell a lie 6 times it becomes fact'

    Sounds like the American version and such precision, 6 times.

    Parent

    lol (none / 0) (#60)
    by squeaky on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 04:45:45 PM EST
    They were the boll weevils (none / 0) (#15)
    by Molly Bloom on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 11:23:28 AM EST
    We need a good nickname for this infinitesimally small band of moderate Northern Republicans...

    boll weevil as a political term

    see also
    Anthonomus grandis  


    Parent

    How about "weasels"? (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by lambert on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 11:37:41 AM EST
    Or possibly "the Northeastern weasel," since that makes them an endangered species. Since Collins and Snowe are from ME, and Spector is from PA.

    Parent
    They Are All Weasels (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by squeaky on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 11:42:33 AM EST
    Or almost all of them. Weasel is synonymous with Politician, so I think the term is too general for this situation.

    Parent
    Very educational, especially (none / 0) (#19)
    by oculus on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 11:31:49 AM EST
    as to the supposed origin of the term "blue dog."

    Parent
    I'm surprised you didn't already know (none / 0) (#21)
    by andgarden on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 11:36:08 AM EST
    about the yellow dogs. You should also read about the Conservative Coalition.

    Parent
    What I didn't know about was the (none / 0) (#24)
    by oculus on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 11:37:40 AM EST
    paintings of blue dogs.  How could I have missed that?  

    Parent
    Blue Dogs (none / 0) (#26)
    by squeaky on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 11:40:27 AM EST
    To distinguish themselves from yellow dogs who were loyal to the party.

    Parent
    Blue dogs: (none / 0) (#28)
    by oculus on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 11:43:20 AM EST
    Yeah (none / 0) (#30)
    by squeaky on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 11:44:36 AM EST
    I ran into that once. Pretty silly, imo, but I am sure he makes a good living.

    Parent
    Should have paid more attention to my own link (none / 0) (#23)
    by Molly Bloom on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 11:37:27 AM EST
    Gypsy moth Republicans

    A Gypsy moth Republican, informally, is a politically pejorative term used by conservative Republicans to describe a moderate Republican serving in the U.S. House of Representatives who happens to represent a northeastern or midwestern urban area of the U.S. (an area that is also the habitat for the invasive Gypsy moth, an insect that damages trees and agriculture).
    The implication is that the Gypsy moth Republicans do damage to the Republican Party by siding occasionally with the more liberal Democratic Party
    .

    Parent
    When Reagan (none / 0) (#48)
    by cal1942 on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 02:44:04 PM EST
    went on TV and talked about tax cuts it was not easy to resist.

    Parent
    Broder has the same effect on me as (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by Anne on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 12:27:35 PM EST
    a severe case of fibromyalgia - everything he says makes me feel pain somewhere.

    I'm waiting for the day when Democrats, Barack Obama included, realize that bipartisanship can and should mean that we don't always have to be giving in to them in order to have "real" bipartisanship.  Standing pat on some issues and principles, and making it politically damaging for Republicans not to come over to our side, should be part of the Democratic strategy; so far, it seems like it isn't anything they have even considered.  

    Knowing how to sit, stay, heel and roll over might get us a blue ribbon at Obedience School graduation, but it isn't going to advance a strong Democratic agenda.  Besides, as a recent book title suggests, Bad Dogs Have More Fun.

    What worries me more than I would like is that by virtue of some of the people Obama has put in Cabinet and other positions in his administration, bipartisanship is already here, and I think we will be seeing policies and decisions that are less than what we thought we should be getting from a Democratic administration.  That means it is up to the Congress to push back and assert itself against further bipartisan incursion into the legislative process.  Argh.

    I would like to be confident that the Obama administration would turn David Broder into that grumpy old man who sits in the opera box on Sesame Street, but my gut tells me Broder's going to be a lot happier than that, which really sticks in my craw.


    Broder's examples of bipartisanship (3.50 / 2) (#1)
    by andgarden on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 11:05:36 AM EST
    come from Truman and LBJ. But Democratic ideas dominated during both periods, as Broder should well know. In between, Eisenhower had a Republican Congress and expanded Social Security (with LBJ's help).

    Oh (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 11:07:59 AM EST
    Broder's examples are absurd. Foreign policy has never been partisan.

    Truman's Marshall Plan as the example? Sheesh.

    There is nothing wrong with people naturally agreeing.

    It is FORCED bipartisanship that is the problem.

    Parent

    A small correction (none / 0) (#41)
    by Socraticsilence on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 12:39:28 PM EST
    "Foreign policy has never been partisan." is only true in times where both sides are human- see: GOP opposition aerial bombardmnet of Kosovo, entry into WW2 and their embrace of Neocolonialism in Iraq (despite what some people think nearly and/or more than 50% of Dem Senators voted against AUMF)

    Parent
    What? (none / 0) (#46)
    by cal1942 on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 02:38:39 PM EST
    GOP opposition aerial bombardmnet of Kosovo, entry into WW2

    When Roosevelt asked Congress for a declaration of war there was only one dissenting vote.

    If you're talking about 'America First;' that organization was not entirely Republican nor was every Republican in Congress an isolationist.

    Cherry picking recent foreign policy matters is hardly playing fair.

    At the time of Vietnam there was a virtual foreign policy consensus.  During much of the Cold War there was general foreign policy consensus with disputes only about methods, extent, etc.

    Parent

    One assumes (none / 0) (#49)
    by Steve M on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 02:52:09 PM EST
    he was talking about the period before we got attacked at Pearl Harbor, not after.

    But I wouldn't call it "partisanship" just because the Republicans were isolationist.  Sometimes people have legitimate disagreements.  There were people who thought we should get into the war, people who thought we should stay out, and they all deserved representation.

    When politicians take foreign policy stances solely out of party politics as opposed to honest disagreement, that's when it bothers me.  Look at what all the Republicans said under Clinton about kids coming home in body bags, no exit strategy, yadda yadda, and then after Bush takes office you never saw such a bunch of war cheerleaders.

    Parent

    hmmm (none / 0) (#55)
    by cal1942 on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 04:12:41 PM EST
    he was talking about the period before we got attacked at Pearl Harbor, not after.

    I did include the pre-Pearl Harbor American Firsters in my comment and included that they were not all Republican and that NOT all Republicans were isolationists.

    In some ways a non-partisan disagreement over whether we should play an active or passive role in foreign affairs.

    Although a closer examination of individuals and individual factions in the America First movement does reveal 'other motives.'

    Parent

    Broder says President will need (none / 0) (#3)
    by oculus on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 11:07:43 AM EST
    Republicans' help to reform entitlements, such as SS, Medicare, etc.  Hope he doesn't get it.

    Parent
    Broder does (5.00 / 3) (#5)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 11:08:33 AM EST
    In short, that is Broder REAL definition of bipartisanship - Democrats doing what Republicans want.

    Parent
    My "he" meant President Obama. (none / 0) (#6)
    by oculus on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 11:09:30 AM EST
    My "Broder does" (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 11:12:35 AM EST
    was in response to YOUR hope he does not.

    Parent
    How very true... (none / 0) (#14)
    by atdleft on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 11:22:57 AM EST
    Which is why Bush was never "hyperpartisan" for defining "bipartisan" as anything "Traitor Joe" Loserman supported. But oh my, we have a crisis because President Obama can't find more than 3 Republicans to support his stimulus! Why haven't they ever thought that the problem lies with the increasingly radical right core of the GOP?

    Parent
    Speaking of "filler." (none / 0) (#33)
    by oculus on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 12:06:37 PM EST
    I would prefer (none / 0) (#35)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 12:16:59 PM EST
    Talex not be humored in my threads.

    Parent
    If Broder still represents (none / 0) (#51)
    by cal1942 on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 03:19:52 PM EST
    DC Conventional Wisdom, and I suspect he does, then nothing has changed in the Village in spite of what Broder says about other pundits.  Villagers have been tossing around the 'entitlement reform' scatology for years.

    My fear, since the primaries, is that Obama, a Villager by inclination, shares the same positions. Convening a panel to discuss entitlements isn't exactly comforting.  To put this panel in place so early in his term makes me fear that one of his priorities is to whack Social Security.

     

    Parent

    Eisenhower had (none / 0) (#47)
    by cal1942 on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 02:41:08 PM EST
    Republican majority in Congress for a total of two out of eight years.

    Parent
    During which the Taft Republicans got (none / 0) (#50)
    by andgarden on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 03:08:57 PM EST
    what exactly? A red scare?

    Parent
    The Taft group, (none / 0) (#52)
    by cal1942 on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 03:23:46 PM EST
    the conservatives, slept with night lights and checked under their beds for Commies every night just before they put on their jammies and said their prayers.

    Parent
    heh (none / 0) (#53)
    by andgarden on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 03:28:04 PM EST
    Bi-partisanship responsible (none / 0) (#2)
    by oculus on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 11:06:04 AM EST
    for California finally having a budget.  At the cost of ballot proposal for open primaries.  

    too bad gay marriages (5.00 / 2) (#13)
    by lilburro on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 11:21:55 AM EST
    couldn't contribute a small chunk of change to Cali revenue.

    Parent
    Heh. (none / 0) (#17)
    by atdleft on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 11:25:43 AM EST
    Maybe our lawyers can tell that to the Supremes next month as they consider overturning H8! Hey, why not allow the state to collect more revenue? ;-)

    Parent
    That's why... (none / 0) (#9)
    by atdleft on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 11:17:52 AM EST
    http://www.theliberaloc.com/2009/02/19/restore-democracy-to-california/

    We must repond with a ballot proposal of our own.

    Parent

    Why do Republicans (or at least 1 of them) (none / 0) (#12)
    by samtaylor2 on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 11:21:39 AM EST
    Want open primaries? How does that change anything in a state so gerrymandered?

    Parent
    So he can win... (none / 0) (#16)
    by atdleft on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 11:24:31 AM EST
    The State Controller's race. Abel Maldonado was already seen as "too liberal" before he became the 27th vote for the budget, so he now wants all of us to vote for his insurance policy to at least be on the November ballot in 2010.

    Parent
    LAT says he won't benefit (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by oculus on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 11:36:21 AM EST
    because of timing.  

    Parent
    Oh, that's right... (none / 0) (#29)
    by atdleft on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 11:43:46 AM EST
    And because my lawyer friends are already telling me this "open primary" is unconstitutional, it looks like Maldo may have been pwned. Heh. Too bad we couldn't do the same with the CReeps who got their crap in the budget before they refused to actually vote for it.

    Parent
    Unfortunately, high Broderism ... (none / 0) (#42)
    by Robot Porter on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 12:48:06 PM EST
    is not be dead.

    The "Millennials" support useless bipartisanship in survey after survey.

    And Obama will continue to play to this group's views, since they are a base of his support, rather than educating them on the issues.

    This is also why he continues to seed his comments with conservative rhetoric, as in yesterday's statements about the housing crisis.  Again, studies suggest this kind of language plays well with Millennials.

    Didn't most of us have the same (5.00 / 0) (#45)
    by vicndabx on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 02:01:32 PM EST
    type of wide-eyed idealism when we were younger though?  I know I did, but then I grew up and saw the opposition for what it was, the opposition.  I learned to see past the spin.  I'm guessing after a few crappy pay-raises while the head honcho makes off w/triple-figure increases, a great many of these millenials will wise up.  

    Parent
    And this just goes to show (none / 0) (#44)
    by jbindc on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 01:33:49 PM EST
    How uninformed many of the Millenials are (and yes, there are lots of uninformed people of all generations, but "Millenials" are the group that made Obama into a rock star without really knowing his policies or positions).  Bi-partisanship doesn't mean getting along because we don't like conflict - it means a decision should be made with inputs from all sides and some compromise by each side.  

    In theory, bi-partisanship should produce the best outcome, but as we've seen, the way bi-partisanship has worked is Obama and the Dems put up a suggestion, the Republicans don't like it, the Dems cave a little while trying to look tough, the Republicans balk some more, and then the Dems whine "Don't tase me bro!" and end up caving yet again.

    Bruno Giannelli, political consultant on The West Wing said it best:

    Because I'm tired of working for candidates who make me think that I should be embarrassed to believe what I believe, Sam! I'm tired of getting them elected! We all need some therapy, because somebody came along and said, "'Liberal' means soft on crime, soft on drugs, soft on Communism, soft on defense, and we're gonna tax you back to the Stone Age because people shouldn't have to go to work if they don't want to!" And instead of saying, "Well, excuse me, you right-wing, reactionary, xenophobic, homophobic, anti-education, anti-choice, pro-gun, Leave It To Beaver trip back to the Fifties...!", we cowered in the corner, and said, "Please. Don't. Hurt. Me." No more. I really don't care who's right, who's wrong. We're both right. We're both wrong. Let's have two parties, huh? What do you say?


    Parent
    Disagree (none / 0) (#66)
    by pluege on Thu Feb 19, 2009 at 10:03:53 PM EST
    Politics is about defining the middle.

    Politics is about getting what you want while giving up as little as possible - it is an organized mess of competing interests. The bush regime was the primal scream of this: using their power to implement an extremist agenda regardless of consequence. The recent Stimulus Bill was a more normal case in point. Most republican Congress persons knew the Stimulus Bill was needed and they knew that Obama gave them a great deal, a far better deal than they would have gotten under any other Democratic administration. But none of that mattered. republicans calculated that they could have their double chocolate fudge cake and eat it too, i.e., get a Stimulus Bill (which many republicans are now crowing about the benefits to their states), hold democrats accountable if the stimulus fails (which it likely will, or at least not succeed greatly), and create the false impression that they have principles instead of the craven scum that they are.

    According to plan, republicans provided the absolute minimum required to get the bill passed (3 sacrificial lambs - all in the Northeast where being a little moderate has no cost) while giving nearly every republican extremist the opportunity to say they were against spending. (Note, I am not commenting on whether or not the republican strategy was good one - time will tell, but only that they got what they wanted while giving the absolute bare minimal.)

    Obama too got what he wanted - an inadequate Stimulus that buoys his centrist and bipartisan credentials at little cost other than some hackles about bipartisanship failing. Democrats got much of what they wanted. The only people to lose out are the usual suspects - the American people who got a less than needed stimulus and will suffer much longer for it, but still have to pay for their politicians failures.

    This is why Obama's strategy of preemptive capitulation is either a) very foolish as it demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of how the system works, or b) the whole PPUS is a ruse to give him cover for not implementing progressive programs and for hiding his basic center-right positions orientation. (I vote for (2))

    That politics is about competing interests - the very opposite of bipartisanship is also why calls for bipartisanship and pursuit of bipartisanship are ridiculous - they are completely contrary to the nature of competing interests.