home

Saturday Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 01:20:27 PM EST
Tags: (all tags)
Share This: Digg! StumbleUpon del.icio.us reddit reddit

Today is our last day of warm weather before a storm hits tomorrow. It's been around 70 degrees in Denver the past few days. Last night, the TL kid and I barbecued dinner outside...first time I've ever done that in February.

I'm sure there are things going on in the world besides the stimulus package which BTD is doing an admirable job of reporting on, but I'm immersed in reading transcripts and a ton of discovery, so here's an open thread for you.

All topics welcome.

< The Age Of Nelson, Collins and Obama: Part 2 | Death Penalty Roundup >

  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


    • Display: Sort:
    Saturday Open Thread | 72 comments (72 topical)

    Readers Must Login or Create an Account to Comment

    70F in Denver???? (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by andgarden on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 01:39:20 PM EST
    I thought it was supposed to be, you know, cold there during the winter.

    My brother, who is currently on FL (none / 0) (#8)
    by oculus on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 02:01:14 PM EST
    east coast, says he may have to go back to CO to find some sun and warmth.  

    Parent
    I have a lot of friends in CO (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by ruffian on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 02:12:20 PM EST
    and we have been laughing because it has been warmer in Denver than here in Orlando the last week or so. But that is changing now - we are back in the 70s today.

    It's not that unusual for Denver to have warm spurts like that in the winter. I used to love it when I lived there - it was like having spring five times a year.

    Parent

    Our January thaw finally is here (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by Cream City on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 02:16:41 PM EST
    in the upper Midwest, too, where it's soaring over 50! today.

    But we know it is but a brief respite -- welcome as it is that spring is only several months (yes, several) away.  The record snows of this year are receding a few inches to reveal some actual green stuff.

    People do love that we have all four seasons in Wisconsin, but we actually have five:  Summer, Fall, Winter, Spring -- and in between winter and spring, we briefly and intermittently have this season called Slush.

    Parent

    Slush, mud (none / 0) (#27)
    by gyrfalcon on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 04:17:50 PM EST
    We usually avoid a lot of slush here because even the dirt roads are kept totally clear of snow, but there is officially Mud Season.  And Mud Season is something awesome in the heavy clay soil of the Champlain Valley where I live.  You quite literally have to take a hammer and chisel to your shoes to get it off.  My neighbor says if she doesn't get her horses cleaned off immediately after they take a roll in the mud, she'd have to do the same with them.  I think you probably really could make pottery out of the stuff in the lower spots.

    We had nothing resembling a January thaw here, first time I've not had one in many, many years.  I'm just as glad, though, because I can't regain my winter stoicism after a burst of even low 30s.

    Parent

    So let's talk about the Faith-Based Office (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by jbindc on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 02:19:54 PM EST
    Seems it got ignored this past week in all the stimulus and tax dodger hullaballoo.  Obama's faith-based office will be broader than Bush's.  So far, none of the people named to his council are Mormon or Roman Catholic (odd, considering Roman Catholicism is the largest single denomination in the US).

    Joshua DuBois, a 27 year-old Pentecostal minister, will head this group. (DuBois was instrumental in lobbying for Rick Warren to give the Inaugural invocation).

    So, what do you all think?

    I think FB Initiatives are a boondoogle. (5.00 / 4) (#15)
    by masslib on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 02:24:24 PM EST
    I'm stunned more people are not paying attention.  I think putting a 27 year old presumably in charge of millions of dollars is laughable, but then I think church-based boondoogles with my tax payer money are very, very wrong.

    Parent
    Disagreement With FB Programs in Federal Spending (none / 0) (#17)
    by daring grace on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 02:45:30 PM EST
    is one thing.

    But 'laughable' to put a 27 year old in charge of 'millions of dollars'?

    How old does someone have to be to take on that responsibility?

    Parent

    Oh, gosh, at least (none / 0) (#35)
    by Cream City on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 04:30:13 PM EST
    29, dontcha think, to misspend millions of our dollars on such an unconstitutional effort?

    Parent
    Youth Seems Such An Arbitrary Criterion (none / 0) (#70)
    by daring grace on Sun Feb 08, 2009 at 01:24:36 PM EST
    especially in a time and place where so many fervently believe a 47 year old is ill equipped to manage their money.

    Parent
    Not so sure it's just an opinion (none / 0) (#72)
    by Inspector Gadget on Sun Feb 08, 2009 at 05:14:54 PM EST
    How many hundreds of millions did he run through in his campaign? You thinking that greek stage and stadium was a necessity for accepting the nomination? Cocktail party for the first round of votes in the House necessary?

    I know lots and lots of people in their mid-late 40's and not ONE of them are fans of JayZ and Beyonce' for their musical entertainment.


    Parent

    So, the Protestant Faith-Based Office (5.00 / 3) (#16)
    by Cream City on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 02:34:51 PM EST
    it is.  I looked at that list.  Really, NO Catholics?  I'm not even Catholic anymore, nor do I want this ridiculous office to be expanded under Obama, when it ought to have been demolished on Day One.

    But NO Catholics?  All that shameless pandering for the Kennedys and Kerry to get the Catholic vote.  But it's under the Bible School Bus with them, too.

    Parent

    Psst (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by lentinel on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 03:21:08 PM EST
    Just wondering...

    Any Jews?
    Any Native Americans?
    Any Buddhists?
    Any Atheists?
    Any Agnostics?
    Any Followers of Manson?
    Any Followers of Warren?
    Any Followers of Ayn Rand?
    Any Believers in Psychoanalysis?
    Any Believers in Magic Mushrooms?

    Parent

    yes to jews...(from the article linked above) (none / 0) (#39)
    by DFLer on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 04:58:45 PM EST
    President Obama is announcing a new 25-member President's Council on Faith-based and Neighborhood Partnerships on Thursday. The White House said about 15 people will be named on Thursday, including:

        * Diane Baillargeon, president and CEO of Seedco
        * Fred Davie, president of Public/Private Ventures
        * Pastor Joel Hunter, Northland Church
        * Vashti McKenzie, African Methodist Episcopal Church
        * Frank Page, former president of the Southern Baptist Convention
        * Eboo Patel, executive director, Interfaith Youth Core
        * Melissa Rogers, professor of religion and public policy at Wake Forest University Divinity School.
        * David Saperstein, director of the Religious Action Center of Reform Judaism
        * Judith N. Vredenburgh, president and chief executive officer of Big Brothers Big Sisters



    Parent
    Wow (5.00 / 2) (#44)
    by lentinel on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 05:30:46 PM EST
    That's a relief.

    Parent
    Likewise (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by DFLer on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 05:44:19 PM EST
    I'm reassured that there is a representative from the Church of Public/Private Ventures.

    Parent
    Gay Appointee (none / 0) (#26)
    by squeaky on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 04:14:05 PM EST
    Yesterday, ThinkProgress noted that President Obama was stalling in overturning Bush's rule that allowed religious groups to discriminate -- usually against gay people -- in their hiring. Today, Obama made an important gesture in naming Fred Davie, the openly gay president of Public/Private Ventures, to serve on on the policy council of the Office of Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships. Speaking about his hopes for the Office yesterday at the National Prayer Breakfast, Obama emphasized the importance of reaching out to "foster a more productive and peaceful dialogue on faith":

    think progress

    Parent

    Er, any Jews? (none / 0) (#28)
    by gyrfalcon on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 04:19:27 PM EST
    Are there any statistics on Bush's dole-outs?  Did any of it ever go to anybody other than Christian groups?

    Parent
    13-14% unemployent now in the U.S. (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by Cream City on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 02:19:57 PM EST
    is the real figure, as we just heard from the Senate floor -- from Rockefeller (D-WV).  That's because despair already has taken hold, people already have given up even trying to get jobs.

    Sounds about right to me, from what we see in my state -- and especially in my city.  But it and some other cities now will get much less in this stimulus bill than was the hope.  (I do expect that in the state to the south, where it has not been as bad, Chicago will do okay in this bill.:-)

    Kyl on the Senate (5.00 / 3) (#29)
    by gyrfalcon on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 04:21:52 PM EST
    floor this AM actually said states shouldn't get any money at all because they hadn't been "responsible" in their spending and should suffer the consequences and get their own houses in order.

    These people live in a very weird alternate universe.

    Parent

    As a State... (5.00 / 2) (#42)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 05:09:44 PM EST
    ...that has to suffer under the economic death grip of TABOR, I'm not sure how much more "responsible" we in Colorado could be.

    TABOR shrinks the scope of what government can accomplish and creates conditions that each year pit programs and services against each other for survival. And once such limits are embedded in a state constitution, they usually cannot be removed or modified. They undermine existing services for children, youth, and families and make any new initiatives virtually impossible to undertake.

    Not to mention it was the GOP that thrust it upon us in the first place.    

    Parent

    Weird indeed. (5.00 / 2) (#43)
    by DFLer on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 05:14:26 PM EST
    "responsible" in their spending and should suffer the consequences and get their own houses in order.

    I would like to say to him GFY and do it today.

    many states are required by state law to balance the budget...MN included.

    They just hate the states spending on things close to the people: education, health and transportation.

    Parent

    To them, any Government spending (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by andgarden on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 08:55:35 PM EST
    on anything that isn't the military is "wasteful." They still hate the New Deal.

    Parent
    I'm sure he felt the same way about the (none / 0) (#38)
    by Teresa on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 04:57:23 PM EST
    banks?

    Parent
    Dunno (none / 0) (#67)
    by gyrfalcon on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 09:13:23 PM EST
    how he voted on that, T.  But Kyl I think is a "true believer," and I'd guess he most likely voted no even on that.

    Parent
    Isn't higher real unemployment (none / 0) (#18)
    by BackFromOhio on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 02:50:43 PM EST
    figure also due to the fact that DOL stats (now at 7.6%) do not include long-term unemployed?

    Parent
    Schumer (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by lentinel on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 03:37:35 PM EST
    "The plan is very smart," said Senator Charles E. Schumer,
    Democrat of New York, who declined to provide details of his discussions about the plan with senior administration officials.
    "It avoids one-size-fits-all. It will have an overarching effect on many institutions. But it doesn't put all institutions in the same box."

    Whew!

    There is nothing on Google that will translate this qslghmqsjg into English.

    It does seem like ... (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by Robot Porter on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 03:50:10 PM EST
    he pulled those sentences out of "The politician's grab-bag of useful phrases."

    "Hmm ... I'll take one of those and ... mmm ... and that one should do nicely.  And I'll wrap it up with that bit about 'the same box'."

    Parent

    "Adjusted for stupidity" (5.00 / 6) (#22)
    by Robot Porter on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 03:45:15 PM EST
    On BBC Radio 4's show comic take on the news "New Quiz," they were talking about a recent survey about how many Brits believe in that the world is less than 10,000 years old.

    One of the guests suggested these surveys should be "adjusted for stupidity" as in:

    According to the raw data 1 in 3 Britons believes that God created the world in the last 10,000 years old.  But, adjusted for stupidity, nobody thinks that.

    I think the phrase "adjusted for stupidity" should become a blog catch phrase.

    Media, Politics, and DC (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by squeaky on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 05:04:10 PM EST
    Bill Moyers talks to Glenn Greenwald and Jay Rosen about Obama and the Media's investment in maintaining the status quo.

    GOod stuff, imo:

    GLENN GREENWALD: If you go back and look at the way in which Obama was praised for the last two months, almost entirely by the media, will almost always be based on this idea that he's not an ideologue that he's not in concert with the liberals and the leftists in his party. That's the great accomplishment in the eyes of the media; a president could possibly aspire to.

    And the reason for that is because in their eyes, what liberalism or the leftist ideology that they're scorning, are not things about policy making per se, or even approaches to foreign policy. It's the idea that the prevailing consensus among our political elite is corrupted and needs to be radically changed. And so, what I think they are most afraid of is having the anger of the American people start to affect what happens within their system. What they want more than anything else, is to exclude those external influences.

    link

    That is good stuff (5.00 / 2) (#52)
    by esmense on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 06:06:31 PM EST
    But a simpler way of understanding Greenwald's point is this; the mildest, most pacifist Left wing activism will always be more frightening to the beltway media and the establishment they speak for than even violent Right wing activism -- because when the Right grabs its pitchforks and marches it marches into the neighborhoods of the poorest and least powerful, but when the Left marches, it marches into the better neighborhoods and protests in front of the institutions of the most powerful and established.

    That's why progressives and progressive ideas never get a fair hearing in the media. And why courting the media is never a winning strategy for those who are even a little bit left of center. (Those on the Right, by the way, don't court the media, they manipulate it. I don't know why Democrats can't seem to understand the difference.)

    Parent

    Sheriff Lott (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by squeaky on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 05:40:49 PM EST
    The Richland County, SC, Sheriff who is goin' to  bust Olympic medalist Michael Phelps from photo. has a f'ing tank, presumably for his War on Drugs. .

    Sorta makes Sheriff Arpaio look like a pansy.

    Word fail me... (none / 0) (#50)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 05:56:17 PM EST
    Sheriff Leon Lott has charmingly named the vehicle "The Peacemaker," and insists that using a caliber of ammunition that even the U.S. military is reluctant to use against human targets (it's generally reserved for use against armored vehicles) will "save lives."

    I guess its safe to say he's moved past the Miami Vice fixation and moved onto a S.W.A.T meets Rambo on A-Rod's steroids one.


    Parent

    why is a sheriff even allowed to have a tank? (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by Teresa on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 06:29:06 PM EST
    That just blows my mind. Where do you buy a tank??

    Parent
    Just goggled "tanks for sale" (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by DFLer on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 06:41:04 PM EST
    for the hell of it.

    Found this site, tanksforsale.co.uk ! This link takes you directly to the tank sale page. It's in the UK, though.

    (lots of hits for used milk tanks, fish tanks in the USA)

    Parent

    Doesn't exactly speak well... (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 06:43:23 PM EST
    ...for Richland County, SC.  WTF goes on there that he thinks he needs a tank?  Is it our answer to Sadr City or something?

    I doubt he bought it--probably a present from the friendly folks at Home Land Security/DEA/FBI.

    Vols win today?  

    Parent

    Kleinfelder Syndrome? (none / 0) (#59)
    by squeaky on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 07:01:40 PM EST
    Anyway I found this comment from Adam:

    Hey, that's my sheriff. I talked to the cop next door about this and asked him why in the hell RCPD bought this. The argument is basically that there could be a situation where this could be useful such as a barricaded in shooter or hostage situation, and hey it only cost us $2000 so who wouldn't buy one for that price. I could see a situation where it could be justifiably used maybe one time in the next fifty years, and that's still a fairly big maybe. I'm just hoping they don't deploy it during their next no knock drug raid at a house on a parallel street and blow through it, my house and the middle school behind me. That is after all what it was designed for.


    Parent
    Lost by one on a shot with 3 seconds left. (none / 0) (#63)
    by Teresa on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 07:48:44 PM EST
    They are not helping my mood any. I'm going to have to adopt a team for March Madness because I don't think any SEC team will get to the Sweet Sixteen.

    Parent
    Well, that's no good! (none / 0) (#68)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 10:02:34 PM EST
    With Iowa in the tank (losing to a lowly Indiana team the other night!), I was going to root for BP, Tyler and the rest of the headband crew.

    Guess we'll both be finding someone to adopt come tourny time.

    Parent

    British Petroleum? (none / 0) (#71)
    by oculus on Sun Feb 08, 2009 at 04:53:24 PM EST


    Parent
    Oh (none / 0) (#65)
    by jbindc on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 08:49:12 PM EST
    Way back when, I used to work as a temp at a small manufacturing plant in an industrial park.  The company next door used to make tanks for the local sheriff's department and used to test them by driving them through the parking lot - it was very cool to see one zipping through there!

    Parent
    That's how we roll (none / 0) (#58)
    by coast on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 06:58:05 PM EST
    in SC...in a freakin' tank.  I doubt its a hybrid though so he may be able to get some stimulus money to convert it.

    Parent
    Pinko Dems Not Paying Taxes (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by squeaky on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 06:38:08 PM EST
    How dare they, all of them are cheaters, hypocrites, well all two of them or was it three?

    But

    Some cats never change their spots:

    Michael S. Steele, the newly elected chairman of the Republican National Committee, arranged for his 2006 Senate campaign to pay a defunct company run by his sister for services that were never performed, his finance chairman from that campaign has told federal prosecutors.[emphasis added]

    WaPo via TPM

    GOP business as usual...


    Wait (none / 0) (#1)
    by NJDem on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 01:31:27 PM EST
    What?

    "Cold warrior Henry Kissinger woos Russia for Barack Obama"

    And here I was trying to find positive news to post...

    My guess is that (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by KeysDan on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 01:46:29 PM EST
    Dr. Kissinger avoided a stopover in Paris.  A quick exit through the Ritz's kitchen would be unseemly.

    Parent
    I'm beginning to understand why (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by oculus on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 01:59:57 PM EST
    career diplomats at Dept of State are worried about all the "special" appointments.  

    Parent
    We ought to be worried, too (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by Cream City on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 02:04:20 PM EST
    if we think that the nomination of Clinton was a good thing -- because much of her charge, for many countries, has been taken away from her and handed off by Obama to lots of "special envoys."

    Parent
    Actually this is Star Trek Chess: (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by ThatOneVoter on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 04:22:35 PM EST
    Obama is secretly planning to have Kissinger arrested for war crimes in Europe. Bush is next.
    pass it on!!

    Parent
    Ha! Has Rumsfled been called back (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by tigercourse on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 02:01:19 PM EST
    to service yet?

    Parent
    jaw dropping (none / 0) (#5)
    by Nasarius on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 01:48:17 PM EST
    President Barack Obama reportedly sent him to Moscow

    Wow.

    Despite his pariah status with many Left-wingers in Mr Obama's Democratic Party

    As always, lovely euphemisms and issue-dodging. Gee, maybe "Left-wingers" don't like him because he's a war criminal? Sigh.

    Parent
    Playing the Devil's Advocate (none / 0) (#33)
    by CoralGables on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 04:26:02 PM EST
    Since we like to trot out Krugman's Nobel Prize in Economics, let's remember that Kissinger can trot out his Nobel Peace Prize. (puts a little tarnish on the whole Nobel prize argument doesn't it)

    Parent
    Friends in fear in Australia (none / 0) (#2)
    by Cream City on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 01:38:15 PM EST
    near the horrific bush fires there -- future in-laws living close to Bunyip State Park, site of the worst of the fires and one out of control for days now.  Days when the temperatures have been as high as 115, day after day.

    Dozens are dead, it is feared; their elderly mother and grandmother was evacuated with 100 others on stretchers from nursing homes; hundreds of homes are destroyed; power lines fried to Melbourne, so millions will be suffering in the heat.

    And the hoped-for cooldown to come today is still a couple of days away.  It is a massive disaster across much of Australia -- while the northeast there is coping with floods.  A very bad summer.

    Hope they're OK (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by gyrfalcon on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 04:12:21 PM EST
    but they must be scared to death.

    I can't even IMAGINE temperatures that high.

    Parent

    lol (none / 0) (#6)
    by squeaky on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 01:59:26 PM EST
    Barbecue in February, IN COLORADO..

    I shouldn't be laughing, global warming and all, but it is a funny picture..

    Pretty typical really. (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 05:36:41 PM EST
    It has been like that for all of my 20+ years out here.  In fact, coming out to Colorado from Iowa to visit friends in the middle of Winter and it being like Spring is a big reason that I'm here.  

    50 degree swings are fairly common us.  It has been about 20 when I'm out waiting for the bus in the morning and 70 when I make the trip home in the afternoon this week.  Hard to dress for that!

    One of the benefits of being a mile closer to the sun and having a mountain range to our West.  

    Of course, when you consider this...

    Denver Colorado decidedly tops the list as the US city typically having the earliest and latest substantive snowfalls of the season. It's the only major city to get snow in September, averaging 1.6 inches for the month.

    Denver normally receives another 1.6 inches of snow each May. Only Chicago, Cleveland and Milwaukee can also expect snow in May, but only a dusting amounting to 0.1 inches.

    Altogether, Denver's snow season is the longest of any major US city. It's the only urban center to usually receive some fresh snow during nine months of the year.

    ...these warm snaps are very welcome.  

    /bad case of Spring Fever

    Parent

    Colorado is big (none / 0) (#69)
    by sj on Sun Feb 08, 2009 at 12:53:12 AM EST
    A barbecue in the high country would be lol worthy.  In Denver, well... that's why I miss it sometimes.  Breakfast in an outdoor patio on Saturday morning in late November, shorts in the winter (until the next day when it snows again).  Actually, nobody really puts their "summer clothes" away.

    My birthday is in February and for twelve straight years (at one point) my best present was shirt sleeve weather.  Sure was disappointed when that 13th year came.

    (sigh) Denver.  Also can get a real burrito.

    Parent

    Biden (none / 0) (#19)
    by lentinel on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 03:16:21 PM EST
    Biden scared me today.
    He seemed to be proposing Russia as the new country with which to continue the perpetual war that keeps us in line.

    Biden is still (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by gyrfalcon on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 04:22:55 PM EST
    living in the Cold War, it seems.  He has a real thing about Russia.


    Parent
    Nonsense (none / 0) (#34)
    by squeaky on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 04:29:59 PM EST
    I do not particularly like Biden but he said nothing about maintaining a perpetual war with Russia, he in fact said the opposite:

    The United States rejects the notion that NATO's gain is Russia's loss, or that Russia's strength is NATO's weakness. The last few years have seen a dangerous drift in relations between Russia and the members of our Alliance. It is time -- to paraphrase President Obama -- it's time to press the reset button and to revisit the many areas where we can and should be working together with Russia.

    Our Russian colleagues long ago warned about the rising threat of the Taliban and Al Qaeda in Afghanistan. Today, NATO and Russia can, and should, cooperate to defeat this common enemy. We can and should cooperate to secure loose nuclear weapons and materials to prevent their spread, to renew the verification procedures in the START Treaty, and then go beyond existing treaties to negotiate deeper cuts in both our arsenals. The United States and Russia have a special obligation to lead the international effort to reduce the number of nuclear weapons in the world.

    We will not agree with Russia on everything. For example, the United States will not -- will not recognize Abkhazia and South Ossetia as independent states. We will not recognize any nation having a sphere of influence. It will remain our view that sovereign states have the right to make their own decisions and choose their own alliances. But the United States and Russia can disagree and still work together where our interests coincide. And they coincide in many places.

    [snip]

     "All is changed, changed utterly: a terrible beauty has been born."

    war & piece


    Parent

    It"s (none / 0) (#46)
    by lentinel on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 05:40:25 PM EST
    between the lines.

    NYTimes:
    "Another sore point has been the Pentagon's plans to develop a global missile-defense shield with anchors in Poland and the Czech Republic. The U.S. military says it needs to base missile interceptors and a radar-tracking system in Eastern Europe to fend off a possible attack from Iran. Russia, however, has said it sees the shield as a veiled attempt to negate its nuclear forces and has threatened to target Poland and the Czech Republic in retaliation.

    Russian leaders had been hoping that Obama, who was cool to the idea of a missile shield during his presidential campaign, would pull the plug. Biden said the project would go forward, but only if the Obama administration is satisfied that its unproven technology will work and only in consultation with Europe and Russia.

    "We will continue to develop the missile-defense system," he said, "provided the technology is proven and cost-effective."

    Biden is scheduled to meet privately later this weekend in Munich with Sergei Ivanov, Russia's deputy prime minister. While he was conciliatory in his speech, Biden also signaled that the Obama administration would take a tough line when necessary."

    We"ll talk. We're doing it anyway

    Parent

    Well This May Ease Your Worries (none / 0) (#53)
    by squeaky on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 06:13:51 PM EST
    Andrew Kuchins, the director of the Russia and Eurasia Program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies opines:

    However, Moscow recently expressed hope that U.S. President Barack Obama's administration would "take a break on the issue of missile defense ... and evaluate its effectiveness and cost efficiency."

    With regard to Ukraine and Georgia becoming members of NATO, Kuchins believes that Obama's position "would be more reserved." Kuchins added that the administration has "higher priority issues."

    He also said that there was a chance for an improvement in Russian-American relations, adding that the main discussions between Moscow and Washington would be the situation in Afghanistan and issues of security and disarmament.

    "The [Obama] administration understands that it is impossible to solve security issues in Europe without Russia," he said.

    link

    Stranger things have happened, but I do not think it is out of the question to imaging that the US and Russia could wind up cooperating on missile defense strategies.

    Seems like with all there is to worry about, this is low on the list. Biden has set a tone that is completely different than what we have seen in the past and I am sure Moscow is listening.

    Parent

    What did Biden say that (none / 0) (#36)
    by ThatOneVoter on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 04:37:22 PM EST
    bothered you?

    Parent
    Between the lines (none / 0) (#49)
    by lentinel on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 05:52:38 PM EST
    I felt Biden was saying that we're going to go ahead with the missile shield deal that Bush pushed for. It infuriates Russia - and with good reason.

    On the one hand he seems to be saying let's find common ground with Russia - and on the other hand he clearly signaled that the Obama administration is going ahead with this creation no matter what the Russians think.

    So - I honestly get a revival of the cold war feeling from him.

    I also get a troubling mixed read on what he is talking about re: Iran. On the one hand, we'll talk. On the other hand, before we talk they have to "suspend" the program they have maintained that they do not in fact have. There is also a sense of a threat of military action that I keep getting from any statement from him or Obama.

    And don't even ask about wtf they're planning for Afghanistan.

    But I digress...

    Biden has always been a hawk. He helped enable the Iraq resolution. I think he also has a macho streak. I think he likes to be perceived as tough.

    Anyway - he's not sect'y of state.
    He's vice-President.
    What's he on about?
    Does he think he's Cheney?

    Parent

    Winter barbeque (none / 0) (#24)
    by Lora on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 03:52:32 PM EST
    We had weather in the low teens and plenty of snow when my daughter's boyfriend decided to barbeque ribs for us all...he set the grill up on the front walk and soon the enticing aroma of juicy ribs entered the house whenever he went to check on them.  What a nice thing to do on a cold dreary snowy night!  A little summer in January.

    I have friends here in Vermont (none / 0) (#32)
    by gyrfalcon on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 04:24:15 PM EST
    who do that regularly.  They love their grill and aren't about to give up using it just because it's -10 out.  Me, I'll stick to the broiler on my toaster oven.

    Parent
    Heh (none / 0) (#51)
    by Lora on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 05:59:33 PM EST
    Just living through a winter in VT would be enough for me.  The summers there, however, are fabulous!

    Parent
    Oh, you bet! (none / 0) (#64)
    by gyrfalcon on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 08:17:36 PM EST
    Summers are as mild as San Diego, and even a "Boston-normal" high-80s and humid for a couple days, which we get once or twice in August, sends the winter-tough long-time Vermonters to the fainting couch.

    But the best, the absolute knock-out best, is when spring bursts out.  A friend who moved to Hawaii for a while and then came back said life just wasn't anywhere near as nice in constant lovely warmth but without the catharsis of actual spring.

    Makes you (or me anyway) realize why the idea of resurrection is so incredibly powerful in northern places.  We see it every year.

    Parent

    Finally! (none / 0) (#37)
    by NJDem on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 04:50:18 PM EST
    Some good news!  (apologies for the source)  

    I should have added (none / 0) (#40)
    by NJDem on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 05:00:47 PM EST
    that of course it's not close to enough, but it's the first news story I've seen about any policy change...  

    Parent
    AP reviews Domingo reprising his (none / 0) (#60)
    by oculus on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 07:27:38 PM EST
    debut role at the Met.  New plot twist--one woman smothers another w/a bunch of poisoned violets. link

    Italian Opera (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by squeaky on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 07:36:54 PM EST
    Francesco Cilea, well there is a name that you do not hear too often, or ever.

    Born 1866 last opera written 1907

    Cilea's last opera, premièred at La Scala in Milan on 15 April 1907 under the baton of Arturo Toscanini, was the 3-act tragedy Gloria, again with a libretto by Colautti, based on a play by Victorien Sardou. The opera was withdrawn after only two performances; and the failure of this work, even though the composer attempted a later revision, was enough to drive him to abandon the operatic stage for good.

    Wiki

    I think I will skip that performance.


    Parent

    Good to see Domingo getting some (none / 0) (#62)
    by oculus on Sat Feb 07, 2009 at 07:47:47 PM EST
    recognition, after the overwhelming Pavarotti publicity after he died.

    Parent
    Saturday Open Thread | 72 comments (72 topical)

    Readers Must Login or Create an Account to Comment