NYTimes: Obama Should End Sheriff Joe Immigration Raids

By Jeralyn, Section Civil Liberties
Posted on Wed Mar 04, 2009 at 03:19:12 PM EST
Tags: immigration raids, Joe Arpaio (all tags)

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The New York Times asks, Who's Running Immigration? saying President Obama and Janet Napolitano should put an end to the reign of terror Sheriff Joe Arpaio has instilled in Maricopa County (Phoenix), AZ.

[Arpaio] has terrorized Latino neighborhoods with relentless sweeps and has paraded shackled immigrants through the streets.

When she was the Arizona governor, Ms. Napolitano was an outspoken supporter of delegating neglected federal immigration duties to local authorities. Sheriff Arpaio is an example of that concept run amok.

The Times also asks, how did a workplace raid in Bellingham, WA take place without Obama or Napolitano knowing about it? [More...]

The other example was the first workplace immigration raid of the Obama administration, late last month in Bellingham, Wash. More than two dozen people were arrested at a family-run company that rebuilds car engines. They were charged with the usual paperwork offenses. The company said it was blindsided, and so was Ms. Napolitano. She said she had not known about the raid in advance and promised an investigation.

The point:

...scattershot raids and rampaging sheriffs are not the answer. The idea that enforcement alone will eliminate the underground economy is a great delusion. It runs up against the impossible arithmetic of mass expulsion — no conceivable regime of raids will wrench 12 million illegal immigrants from their jobs and homes.

Thousands marched against Arpaio this past Saturday.

Memo from the Times to Obama and Napolitano:

Are Mr. Obama and Ms. Napolitano in charge or not? Let them show it by ending the raids and Sheriff Arpaio’s abuses. Something has to be done about immigration, but it has to be smarter than this.

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NYTimes: Obama Should End Sheriff Joe Immigration Raids | 34 comments (34 topical)

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Immigration officials are not allowed to (none / 0) (#1)
by Inspector Gadget on Wed Mar 04, 2009 at 03:28:03 PM EST

act on cases of employers failing to verify the right to work in the US without the permission of the head of Homeland Security and the President?? It seems likely that company in Bellingham was turned in by a disgruntled somebody, but why can't they go to immigration directly? And, why the I-9 forms if employers shouldn't be held to the law and not hire illegals?

thanks, but can you please (5.00 / 1) (#2)
by Jeralyn on Wed Mar 04, 2009 at 03:34:49 PM EST

not refer to people as "illegals" on this site? No human being is illegal. Being present in the country without proper papers is a civil violation. The term "undocumented" is preferable here.

Much appreciated.


Sorry (none / 0) (#4)
by Inspector Gadget on Wed Mar 04, 2009 at 03:57:28 PM EST

I took it from the post. I'll be careful in the future. It's not my style to dehumanize people.

The point:
...scattershot raids and rampaging sheriffs are not the answer. The idea that enforcement alone will eliminate the underground economy is a great delusion. It runs up against the impossible arithmetic of mass expulsion -- no conceivable regime of raids will wrench 12 million illegal immigrants from their jobs and homes.

emphasis mine


IG, having been through this (5.00 / 1) (#6)
by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Mar 04, 2009 at 04:03:05 PM EST

a time or two before here on TL, it really doesn't matter whether what term is more or less accurate/appropriate/whatever than another, TL prefers "undocumented immigrant(s)" so that's the term we try to use.

Also, I think TL differentiates between the terms "illegal(s)" and "illegal immigrant(s)."


I get that (none / 0) (#7)
by Inspector Gadget on Wed Mar 04, 2009 at 04:09:35 PM EST

I just don't want any misunderstandings that my intention was to dehumanize. That just isn't in my character.


All good. (5.00 / 1) (#8)
by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Mar 04, 2009 at 04:15:16 PM EST

: Look at at this way (none / 0) (#23)
by WS on Thu Mar 05, 2009 at 09:07:00 AM EST

Think of "illegals" as the same right wing term as "welfare queen" used to dehumanize people. I find those two terms completely vile.

thank you for correcting that poster (none / 0) (#14)
by txpolitico67 on Wed Mar 04, 2009 at 07:43:09 PM EST

when i volunteered for Amnesty International I heard this AWESOME AWESOME senior citizen rip into this person on the phone who was calling torture refugees from Central America "aliens". I learned working with this group that no one is "illegal" or an "alien".

In my industry, we refer to this group as "undocumented workers".


You need to inform your (5.00 / 1) (#30)
by vml68 on Thu Mar 05, 2009 at 11:31:57 AM EST

government.....

I learned working with this group that no one is "illegal" or an "alien".

Any non-US citizen/resident who enters this country legally or otherwise is referred to as an alien. If you are a resident (have a green card) then you are given an Alien Registration Number. If you are not authorized to be in this country then you are here illegaly.
I am not sure how the words "illegal immigrant" or "alien" is dehumanizing. Handcuffing poeple and parading them through the streets, now THAT IMHO is dehumanizing.


: Hear, hear. (5.00 / 1) (#31)
by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Mar 05, 2009 at 11:51:02 AM EST

: the word ba5tard comes to mind (none / 0) (#34)
by txpolitico67 on Fri Mar 06, 2009 at 09:42:23 PM EST

to me, calling a person an alien or illegal is akin to calling a child illegitimate. No child is illegitimate. Someone can be in our country without proper documents and be called "undocumented". The govt uses language that can be de-humanizing. And just because the govt USES that kinda language doesn't mean it's right.
I am quite familiar with all the things you speak of. As someone who's been in the field of recruiting for 14 years, I know what the ARN is and green card, blah blah blah.
Try living in a squalid world and getting out just to have a better life for you and your family....and being called "illegal" or an "alien". Leaving your home country and family has to be really tough.
And in closing, I've been to the SOL in NYC...no where on her base does the word "alien" or "illegal" come up. Tired masses comes to mind, though.

You know those terms are nothing more (none / 0) (#16)
by Inspector Gadget on Wed Mar 04, 2009 at 07:56:43 PM EST

than a status of citizenship in the way they've been used. There's nothing personal or derogatory about them in this context.

I, personally, dislike the word "tolerance" when "acceptance" is far more appropriate.


There will be more "disgruntleds" (5.00 / 1) (#3)
by Fabian on Wed Mar 04, 2009 at 03:42:23 PM EST

as the economy continues to tank. It's logical to assume that if you can cause someone to get fired that you could have a shot at filling that vacancy. How many months of unemployment and unpaid bills would it take for the average person to be motivated to make some calls to the authorities - every authority that they can think of?


Jeralyn, is this really your position? (none / 0) (#5)
by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Mar 04, 2009 at 03:57:54 PM EST

Something has to be done about immigration, but it has to be smarter than this.

What would you have done about immigration?

I am not sure (none / 0) (#9)
by Steve M on Wed Mar 04, 2009 at 04:27:17 PM EST

that it's fair to assume that every decision to conduct a raid gets run all the way up the food chain.

We have a big bureaucracy, for better or for worse, and by and large it just keeps on functioning till someone higher up tells it to stop. That's where we are now.

who's terrified? (none / 0) (#11)
by diogenes on Wed Mar 04, 2009 at 06:48:01 PM EST

When I go abroad I carry my passport with me. The only ones who are "terrorized" by the raids are those who are undocumented, shall we say. If the left side of the Democratic party wants to go on record as saying that all persons who are undocumented have a moral right to be left alone in this country, then by all means say so openly rather than sniping at Joe.

Some people residing in Phoenix are (none / 0) (#12)
by Inspector Gadget on Wed Mar 04, 2009 at 07:07:20 PM EST

terrified.


I'll say it... (none / 0) (#13)
by kdog on Wed Mar 04, 2009 at 07:16:49 PM EST

you should not need papers if you have committed no crime, aside from allegedly not having papers of course.

And Joe is un-american...we used to make fun of countries where men with badges asked for papers for the sake of asking for papers. Pity such countries.


Whose (none / 0) (#17)
by Wile ECoyote on Wed Mar 04, 2009 at 08:44:51 PM EST

SS numbers did the Extra legals, undocumented residents, or long-term sightseers use to get the jobs?


I despise the fact... (none / 0) (#20)
by kdog on Thu Mar 05, 2009 at 08:27:14 AM EST

you need a 9 digit number to get a job too...or at least an on-the-books job.


: Then share (none / 0) (#24)
by Wile ECoyote on Thu Mar 05, 2009 at 09:24:51 AM EST

yours to our unregistered long term sightseers as a sign of protest.

As a Chicano (none / 0) (#15)
by txpolitico67 on Wed Mar 04, 2009 at 07:47:11 PM EST

I get tailed when I go through places like Farmers Branch and Irving here in TX. Google those towns and you will see why. I have a very olive complexion and very much look like a Chicano/Mexican. SO yes you can be an American citizen, as I am, and still be terrorized.

Case in point: I was pulled over in Farmers Branch about two weeks ago for supposedly running a stop sign. After the officer asked me if I could speak English when he approached me, I told him, "I sir, have a far greater command of the English language than you or any of your fellow officers." Needless to say he didn't screw with me. I usually show law enforcement respect but don't come up to me and ask me if I know English. I will drop GRE words on that fool so fast he wouldn't know what hit 'em!


Not so (none / 0) (#18)
by mexboy on Thu Mar 05, 2009 at 12:46:41 AM EST

I am a US citizen who is also Mexican.

The only ones who are "terrorized" by the raids are those who are undocumented, shall we say

Let's not say that... Instead I ask you, why should I be raided, stopped or questioned about my citizenship because of the way I look?

If you start raiding places where African American, Anglo, Asian, etc. work and if you stop them randomly on the street, then you can justify them stopping me. Until then I; a US citizen, am terrorized.


Your workplace has been raided? (none / 0) (#19)
by Inspector Gadget on Thu Mar 05, 2009 at 08:27:04 AM EST

Thing is, when a person without citizenship or proper documentation to be legally employed in the US from any country goes out of their way to get false documents, because they know that's the only way to get a job, are they unknowingly breaking the law? Or, does getting caught become more terrifying because they know they are guilty of breaking the law?

Is it okay only to check citizenship and green cards when they are caught committing a violent crime?


Does my workplace need to be raided (5.00 / 1) (#33)
by mexboy on Fri Mar 06, 2009 at 05:18:37 PM EST

in order for me to understand the real possibilities of me being detained because of the way I look?

Should I start carrying my passport every time I leave the house?

Like I said, if you and all other citizens are forced to randomly prove their citizenship at work or anywhere else then we'll see how you feel.

Martin Niemoller: First they came for the Jews...


That's the only time... (none / 0) (#21)
by kdog on Thu Mar 05, 2009 at 08:29:45 AM EST

I'd expect law enforcement to check, when the person is suspected of commiting a real crime...otherwise leave free people the hell alone....it's hard enough to find a niche and get by in this world without this bullsh*t.


Identity theft is (none / 0) (#25)
by Wile ECoyote on Thu Mar 05, 2009 at 09:26:03 AM EST

not a real crime. Give yours up.


My identity is not a 9 digit number.... (none / 0) (#26)
by kdog on Thu Mar 05, 2009 at 09:33:51 AM EST

I don't know about yours Wile.


violins (none / 0) (#27)
by Wile ECoyote on Thu Mar 05, 2009 at 09:47:33 AM EST

are playing. Tell that to the gov't. Try to do anything without it. But you know that. Like I have said, give yours up so people can use it. Make a stand.


: I don't make stands.... (none / 0) (#28)
by kdog on Thu Mar 05, 2009 at 10:18:50 AM EST

this b*tch is too far gone man.
That makes me a piker...point taken. I care but I don't care enough to f*ck myself.

I think the point is (none / 0) (#22)
by Steve M on Thu Mar 05, 2009 at 08:42:07 AM EST

that people see a workplace full of all these working-class Hispanic folks and they think, hey, time to go check some papers! It's a racial profiling argument.


: Do you have something to substantiate this, (5.00 / 1) (#29)
by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Mar 05, 2009 at 10:26:59 AM EST

or is it something you made up out of whole cloth?
people see a workplace full of all these working-class Hispanic folks and they think, hey, time to go check some papers!

: Actually, that's not the case (none / 0) (#32)
by Inspector Gadget on Thu Mar 05, 2009 at 12:23:38 PM EST

I once had an acquaintence who tried to whistleblow on her employer for immigration hiring violations. She was told that the company had to be actively pursuing the hiring of undocumented people before they would even investigate and she needed to provide the proof that they were. It was a company that would have made the news had anything ever come of it, so I doubt it did.
Maybe it would be good if the whole story of the Bellingham raid was told.

Thats not how it works (none / 0) (#35)
by catmandu on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 12:15:09 PM EST

Sheriff Joe raids businesses that have been reported as having illegal workers. Simply put, illegal workers are those who are not legal to employ---underage or undocumented.
Most police departments in Arizona ask anyone who does not have valid identification their immigration status. Here in Arizona it is illegal to drive without proper identification---aka a drivers license as well as insurance. you don't have the papers--you get asked (as well as a chance of detention). We often get Canadians here illegally, as well as Germans, Poles, and English (to name a few non-hispanic) however nobody seems to care if they are detained.