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    How bad is the economy? (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by jbindc on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 09:52:23 AM EST
    So bad that couples who want to divorce can't or won't right now because it is not the best course financially.

    Link

    Married couples are staying together this year -- in part, it seems, because misery requires company.

    The economics for splitting up have never been worse, lawyers say, and the result is a dip in Michigan filings, and unusual settlements that keep even divorced couples living in the same house.

    "We used to work out who has custody of the children. Now we work out who has custody of the kitchen," says Harriet Rotter, a Franklin divorce lawyer. "She gets the kitchen from 5-6:30 p.m., he gets it from 6:30-8. And no, I'm not kidding."

    Conflicts over money traditionally drive couples apart, but in this economy, fewer couples -- even those who can't stand each other -- realize they can afford divorce. As the country song goes, "That's why it's cheaper to keep her" or him.



    I wonder if the treasury (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by andgarden on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 09:54:43 AM EST
    shouldn't just pay people to go binge shopping for luxury goods on Uncle Sam's dime. It makes far more sense than setting money on fire by handing it to AIG.

    Bailing out AIG (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by gyrfalcon on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 01:13:46 PM EST
    has nothing to do with stimulating the economy.  Nothing.  It has to do with keeping the financial system from collapsing.  If the financial system collapses, they could hand us each a half a mil and it wouldn't make any difference.


    Parent
    I don't disagree (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by andgarden on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 01:33:16 PM EST
    I think it's just another company that the government probably should have nationalized (instead of injecting cash through the Fed).

    TARP would have worked better if the Treasury had just taken 100% equity from the start.

    Parent

    True, but (none / 0) (#31)
    by jbindc on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 01:32:40 PM EST
    if they gave us each a half million, we could pay our bills (like mortgages and credit cards and car payments) which WOULD prop up the financial system.

    Parent
    Well, Maybe... (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by santarita on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 01:35:29 PM EST
    except some people (maybe too many) would take that money, quit their job,  buy a yacht, a new home, and take an expensive vacation.

    You'd have to figure out some way of directing that money to the banks that are owed the money.  Wait a minute - isn't that what the Obama Administration is doing anyway?

    Parent

    Many would try (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by andgarden on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 01:38:33 PM EST
    and suddenly find out that $500k doesn't get them what they thought it would. It's a tricky balance.

    Parent
    Oh, I could really help the (5.00 / 2) (#45)
    by oculus on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 01:57:43 PM EST
    travel/hospitality industry with $500,000.  

    Parent
    $500k to everyone (none / 0) (#33)
    by andgarden on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 01:34:00 PM EST
    would not be good for anyone.

    There is probably a lower amount that would be good for everyone, but I'm not sure what that amount is.

    Parent

    There has been work (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by NYShooter on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 01:56:36 PM EST
    done on just this topic.

    Taking the best estimates of all the bailout/loans, and/or funding expected from our government, and dividing it by approx. 187 million "heads of households," the figure computes out at about $200,000 per family.

    Parent

    &garden: Why not? (none / 0) (#49)
    by DFLer on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 02:14:42 PM EST
    would not be good for anyone.


    Parent
    You have to consider what happens (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by andgarden on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 02:46:29 PM EST
    to the value of $500k when everyone gets it.

    Parent
    Sorry, but, huh? (none / 0) (#56)
    by DFLer on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 02:54:18 PM EST
    The money would still out there. I thought the premise of this hypothetical fantasy was to give the $ to individuals instead of banks and financials. Why doesn't the "value" of the 500k go down(I'm assuming you mean that) in EITHER case?


    Parent
    I think it actually does matter where the money (none / 0) (#57)
    by andgarden on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 02:59:22 PM EST
    goes. The national psychology regarding money will be very much altered if every Tom, Dick, and Harry is handed half a million dollars. Not so much if it goes to the big banks.

    Of course, it might be that we actually want this to happen to people will go out and spend. . . It's complicated.

    Parent

    Agreed (none / 0) (#58)
    by DFLer on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 03:08:22 PM EST
    However, the national psychology has already been altered seeing many CEO Dicks, CEO Toms and CEO Harrys being handed (oops, they've earned it) many more millions....every year.

    Parent
    Difference is (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by andgarden on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 03:12:07 PM EST
    that when that happens, your money doesn't lose much of its value.

    Parent
    what money? heh (none / 0) (#60)
    by DFLer on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 04:06:02 PM EST
    difference is the size of the free ride. The more you have, the more you can steal and get away with it.

    Parent
    I promise to buy (none / 0) (#3)
    by Fabian on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 10:07:17 AM EST
    only made in USA or made in Canada goods if you give me money to go binge shopping.

    The house could eat up a hundred grand easy just for energy efficiency projects and solar electric and solar hot water.  I have yet to do enough research to figure out how to convert my south facing fireplace/chimney into a proper trombe wall.  Much more research needed to figure out how much solar energy you need to power a proper solar oven.  It may be one of those things that cool and cloudy regions just can't do well.

    Parent

    AIG, Citi and Populism... (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by santarita on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 12:16:57 PM EST
    I've become a big fan of various economic blogs since August.  The financial system meltdown and economic meltdown have a lot of moving parts.  Even with  some experience in banking at the capital markets level,  the complexity makes attempts at understanding daunting.

    At first, the comments at some of my favorite blogs were full of snark but at least well-informed snark.  Now many of the comments are by either right-wing or leftist conspiracy theorists or by people who throw around the concept of "nationalization" as a means of punishing the greedy capitalist pigs who got us into this mess.

    Nationalization (or temporary takeover, preprivatization, bad big/good bank, or other synonyms) may be the ultimate outcome and may happen sooner rather than later. (For all we know the Obama Administration may be working its way methodically towards nationalization.)   I haven't seen much discussion in the blogs about how to effectuate nationalization and how to deal with contracts with foreign banks and companies.  Economists like Krugman sometimes seem to be in an ivory tower and deaf to international issues and domestic political problems with nationalization.  

    As to the latest contretemps about AIG using taxpayer funds to bail out counterparties, there may be something wrong there.  If it can be shown that the counterparties received more than they were legally entitled to or were given an illegal preference or a legal preference that was motivated by improper reasons (like favoritism), then I'll get excited.  But to get excited just because there were big banks and foreign banks getting paid shows ignorance of the fact that most of the large transactions involved the same players.  

    If you listen to what Geithner and Bernanke say, part of their mission is to get the credit markets working again.  And a key to that mission is to restore and maintain confidence not only intranationally but internationally.  

    The Obama Administration may be moving to slowly and down the wrong path but I am not ready to condemn it as having been coopted by Wall Street.  Yet.

    Well said (none / 0) (#27)
    by gyrfalcon on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 01:17:28 PM EST
    BTD, I'm rooting hard for your Gators (5.00 / 2) (#21)
    by Teresa on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 12:48:10 PM EST
    today. I want them to make the tourney and I'm not through with wishing bad karma on KY for treating Tubby so bad.

    You need a Go Gators in your Open Thread. That's why my Vols won last week...you jinxed them. I have witnesses here!

    Apparently Gainesville is (5.00 / 2) (#24)
    by oculus on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 01:01:48 PM EST
    a travel destination for more than sports.  Who knew?  NYT "Escapes" section

    Parent
    I didn't know the school was that big. (none / 0) (#28)
    by Teresa on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 01:19:31 PM EST
    52,000 students. That's twice as many as UT has.

    I'm not sure why, but they have reduced enrollment over the years and upped the test scores required to get in. When I was young, none of my friends had trouble getting in and now I know kids with straight A's/B's who can't get in. I'm not sure why a state school does that.

    Parent

    In the Big Ten (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by Steve M on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 01:27:36 PM EST
    we would call that a "mid-size" school...

    Parent
    Does MSU provide a burial (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by oculus on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 02:13:52 PM EST
    place on campus for alums willing to pay the price?

    Gator heaven

    Parent

    We are an ag school (5.00 / 2) (#54)
    by Steve M on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 02:29:09 PM EST
    You would likely end up as fertilizer of some sort.

    Parent
    Ha! My family swears they will take my (none / 0) (#50)
    by Teresa on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 02:19:06 PM EST
    ashes and spread them on the field at Neyland Stadium. I just hope my jinx-ness doesn't continue into the beyond.

    Parent
    Very funny (none / 0) (#51)
    by Teresa on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 02:20:57 PM EST
    So in order to this and of course turn a profit they want to charge alumni $3,000 to $5,000 to store their remains there for all eternity or until Tim Tebow ascends to heaven.


    Parent
    I know! Why don't we want to be bigger? :) (none / 0) (#35)
    by Teresa on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 01:36:25 PM EST
    Steve, I saw one March Madness bracket that has my Vols playing your guys in the second round if we make it that far. I hope not!

    Parent
    Aw! (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by Steve M on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 01:47:09 PM EST
    That would be fun.  I would even sing Rocky Top with you.  I hope for good things for MSU this year, but the Vols would not be a pushover.

    Hey, the men's team could get farther than the women's team, right?  I bet that hasn't happened in living memory!

    Parent

    I don't think it has ever happened. (none / 0) (#43)
    by Teresa on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 01:54:11 PM EST
    Our LadyVols are now known as our BabyVols. Seven frustrating freshmen. I think this is one season Pat will be glad to see end. I think they have exhausted her!

    I have to pick out a women's team to root for this year. Anyone but UConn sounds good?

    Parent

    Food and Organic Fantasies (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by squeaky on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 01:30:33 PM EST
    And for all our focus on the cost of moving food, transportation accounts for barely one-tenth of a food product's greenhouse gas emissions. Far more significant is how the food was produced--its so-called resource intensity.

    Certain foods, like meat and cheese, suck up so many resources regardless of where they're produced (a pound of conventional grain-fed beef requires nearly a gallon of fuel and 5,169 gallons of water) that you can shrink your footprint far more by changing what you eat, rather than where the food came from.

    According to a 2008 report from Carnegie Mellon University, going meat- and dairyless one day a week is more environmentally beneficial than eating locally every single day.

    Mother Jones via Laura Rozen & tristero

    Well worth a read

    Cultural alert: Met broadcast (none / 0) (#4)
    by oculus on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 11:32:00 AM EST
    starts today at 10:00 a.m. PST.  Patricia Racette sings the lead in Puccini's "Madame Butterly."  She owns this part, imo.  'Twill be extraodinarily good listening. One place to listen on line:  KUSC FM.

    I'm Boycotting Butterfly... (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by santarita on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 11:51:12 AM EST
    on the grounds that it is  anti-American.  Not really true but I wanted to be part of the rising populist bandwagon.  

    I am not going to the live Met broadcast today.  I confess to be Butterflied out.  I'm not a huge Puccini fan (except for Tosca and maybe Turandot).  Of course the music is gorgeous and invites truly great singing.  But his stories are too sappy for me (except for Tosca, which is sappy but not too sappy for me.)

    Besides it a beautiful sunny day and I'm going gardening.

    And I am going to the Met in May for La Cenerentola!  Yippeee!

    Parent

    I confess (none / 0) (#6)
    by Steve M on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 11:55:18 AM EST
    I feel increasingly out of place in this community as a non-opera maven.  Alas!

    Parent
    Well. . . (5.00 / 3) (#8)
    by andgarden on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 12:00:11 PM EST
    - Frasier is driving Niles, Daphne and his date Chelsea to the opera:
    Chelsea: This is going to be a whole new experience for me.
    Daphne: Why? You've never been bored before


    Parent
    But does a cartoon exist of (none / 0) (#10)
    by oculus on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 12:02:51 PM EST
    Butterfly?  Isn't that the bottom line here?

    Parent
    Well, Sort Of... (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by daring grace on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 12:50:34 PM EST
    Madame Butterfly cartoon

    Sorry! I went looking, saw this and couldn't resist.

    Actually, as a fairly opera-ignorant consumer, Madame Butterfly and Carmen (two of the more newbie friendly operas) are two that I have on my disc player when I walk around town. Must say when I get to some of the lustier Carmen numbers my gait matches the mood. A couple of my neighbors acted startled/scared when they came around a corner and saw me striding toward them a la Carmen one day.

    These two movies--1 and 2 -- really sealed the deal for me with Carmen.

    And this one made me seek out the entire opera of Madame Butterfly when I was haunted by the aria in a comic scene of bumbling law enforcement shooting up a house to that recording.

    Parent

    Of course, I'll have to listen (none / 0) (#23)
    by oculus on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 12:57:04 PM EST
    to your links later--after Met broadcast.

    Parent
    Thanks for the links!!!!! (none / 0) (#36)
    by santarita on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 01:37:39 PM EST
    Especially number 2 on Carmen.  Years ago I saw that movie and could never remember the director's name when I would look for it to rent again.  That was a special movie.

    And the Placido Domingo Carmen was great.

    Parent

    I'd best back off then. Hoping (none / 0) (#7)
    by oculus on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 11:58:52 AM EST
    to entice some new consumers of opera.

    Parent
    Hee hee (5.00 / 0) (#12)
    by Steve M on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 12:21:07 PM EST
    I might just be enticed yet!  I like musicals, and that's like lowbrow opera, right?

    Parent
    Pretty Close... (5.00 / 0) (#16)
    by santarita on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 12:35:35 PM EST
    Some people think "Tommy" by the Who (or is it "The Who") is opera.  And then there is Phantom of the Opera.  And Les Miserables.

    If you ever want to try opera, Tosca, Butterfly, La Traviata, Don Giovanni or Barber of Seville would be good first operas.

    Parent

    And also of course... Carmen. (none / 0) (#37)
    by santarita on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 01:38:19 PM EST
    Now that I've been reminded of it.

    Parent
    Kind of. I just bought a ticket (none / 0) (#13)
    by oculus on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 12:23:18 PM EST
    for West Side Story revival.  Variety review of Kennedy Center (Boston try out) was very positive.  Hope I can remember the English texts to the songs that will now be sung in Spanish!

    Parent
    Not Much Difference (none / 0) (#18)
    by squeaky on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 12:37:08 PM EST
    Between musicals and,  Italian opera which is essentially pop music that has stayed popular way too long, imo.

    The only difference is the language barrier. It is best to study the libretto before the performance so you do not have to stare at the supertitles.

    Personally I find both musicals and Italian opera extremely boring.

    Mozart, Berg, Strauss, et al are an entirely different kettle of fish. For me those are well worth learning.
     

    Parent

    Richard, I presume? (none / 0) (#19)
    by oculus on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 12:38:41 PM EST
    No (none / 0) (#20)
    by squeaky on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 12:40:49 PM EST
    Otto, lol...

    Parent
    De Gustibus Non ... (none / 0) (#39)
    by santarita on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 01:39:24 PM EST
    Disputandum est.  Or something like that.  Can't argue with one's tastes.

    Parent
    Upside Is (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by squeaky on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 02:24:17 PM EST
    That music requires performers, and great performers can make most, if not all, music interesting.

    Downside is that there are very few great performers.

    Parent

    Zinka Milanov (none / 0) (#61)
    by gyrfalcon on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 07:44:22 PM EST
    once famously said on a Met intermission broadcast (imagine heavy slavic accent here), "In my day, you sang the best you possibly could because tomorrow comes Steber or Nilsson or Tebaldi.  Today, nobody comes tomorrow."

    Parent
    The last discussion included Looney Tunes (none / 0) (#14)
    by BernieO on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 12:26:18 PM EST
    videos, so I wouldn't feel too out of place.

    Parent
    Hey hey hey! (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by jbindc on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 01:04:02 PM EST
    Do NOT be dissing Bugs!!

       

    Siegfried (Elmer Fudd):  "Oh Bwunhilde, you'w so wuvwy!"

    Brunhilde (Bugs Bunny): "Yes I know it; I can't help it!"'

    Siegfried (Elmer Fudd):  "Oh Bwunhilde, be my wove!"



    Parent
    I just got tickets to hear Gergiev (none / 0) (#9)
    by oculus on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 12:00:59 PM EST
    and LSO play Prokofiev at Lincoln Center and hear Bostridge sing Shubert at Carnegie Hall(doing all I can to stimulate the arts economy).  No Met Opera this trip, although I do plan to see the "Cinderella" HD here.

    Good for you.  Should be fun.

    Parent

    I'll Be There for 6 Days... (none / 0) (#15)
    by santarita on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 12:32:00 PM EST
    we thought about seeing Il Trovatore also but decided to sample some of the many other musical offerings.  I'm thinking we'll get tickets to "Carousel", one of my all time favorites.  

    Parent
    "Carousel," is my favorite. (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by oculus on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 12:36:02 PM EST
    How's that for out-of-touch?  But I didn't realize it was playing again in Manhattan.  The Brit. revival was marvelous, as is "South Pacific."

    The Met offerings the week I'm in NY are underwhelming:  parts of Ring cycle, Cav/Pag, and Trovatore.  I wanted to hear Onegin or Rusalka but timing is wrong.

    Parent

    I'd Go to trovatore and (none / 0) (#40)
    by santarita on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 01:42:52 PM EST
    Cav/Pagliacci.  But then I'm an Italian opera fan.  And I read the Verga story of Cavaliere Rusticano (sp?) in Italian.  

    The Ring Cycle is something I will do someday but it is down on my list.

    Parent

    Couldn't disagree more (none / 0) (#42)
    by Mikeb302000 on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 01:49:36 PM EST
    I couldn't disagree more unless I lived in New York where one can get "Butterflied" out. I live in Rome Italy where we're lucky to have a decent production of Madama Butterfly once a year. And that's definitely not enough.

    As far as it being boycotted for being un-American, was that a joke?

    Parent

    Definitely a joke. Isn't Pinkerton (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by oculus on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 02:02:29 PM EST
    the epitome of the ugly American.  But we do hear Puccini's Star Spangled Banner.  

    Parent
    Although I would trade a million (none / 0) (#47)
    by oculus on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 02:07:02 PM EST
    performances of "Butterfly" for the opportunity to live in Rome.

    Parent
    I was joking about Butterfly being... (none / 0) (#53)
    by santarita on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 02:24:40 PM EST
    anti-American.  

    If you live in Rome, are you Tosca'd out?

    What is the status of opera in Rome.  Every summer there seems to be a 50-50 chance that there will be a strike and no opera at Caracalla.  

    Parent

    Hilarious Watchmen Vids! (none / 0) (#62)
    by Robot Porter on Sat Mar 07, 2009 at 07:51:26 PM EST