Jobless Claims Expected To Continue On Record Pace

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Economy
Posted on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 09:34:00 AM EST
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A trillion dollars for the Masters of the Universe ain't gonna do squat about this, via Atrios:

Job losses in the U.S. private sector accelerated in March, more than economists' expectations, according to a report by ADP Employer Services Wednesday. Private employers cut jobs by a record 742,000 in March versus a 706,000 revised cut in February that was originally reported at 697,000 jobs, said ADP, which has been carrying out the survey since 2001.

[MORE . . .]

The big drop foreshadows a huge decline in the non-farm payroll reading in the government's employment report that will be released on Friday, some analysts said. "It's a terrible number. It is almost a loss of three quarters of a million jobs which is possibly the highest we have seen so far over the length of this crisis," said Matt Esteve, foreign exchange trader with Tempus Consulting in Washington.

There actually is a decent argument for using part of the trillion dollars Geithner wants to give to the Masters of The Universe for the auto industry, even if it is only putting off the inevitable contraction. In the depression environment we have, stemming job losses in the auto industry could be viewed as a form of a stimulus plan. But propping up zombie banks has no stimulative effect. It is just a ripoff of taxpayers, with no stimulative effect. Zombie banks will not start lending because Geithner gave them money to cover their losses. This is just nuts.

Speaking for me only

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Jobless Claims Expected To Continue On Record Pace | 67 comments (67 topical)

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It's very (5.00 / 3) (#1)
by Ga6thDem on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 09:34:16 AM EST

scary. I'm taking all the extra work I can right now.

Dramatic change in rush hour traffic (5.00 / 1) (#10)
by Inspector Gadget on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 10:49:31 AM EST

in my area.


that's scary (5.00 / 2) (#11)
by CST on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 10:57:59 AM EST

you know it's bad when traffic is good.

and it's not just high gas prices.

We had a presentation at work recently by a company that makes technology for traffic counts. They said they weren't doing any counts right now because traffic was artificially low. My response was - how do we know this is temporary? We may be looking at a very different future.


reduction in rush hour traffic (5.00 / 1) (#14)
by DFLer on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 11:01:19 AM EST

also reported in metro area of the Twin Cities, a month ago.


Really? (none / 0) (#12)
by Militarytracy on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 10:58:56 AM EST

Interesting, thanks for sharing your observations. I don't have a rush hour, but have lived where there was one. The worst will continue to happen to us because our course has now been set, but imagine if as we rebuild (as we must and will) we FINALLY get some really decent public transportation systems built for the next rush hours in twenty years?


: but building infrastructure isn't stimulus (none / 0) (#34)
by of1000Kings on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 01:00:39 PM EST

it's just wasteful spending...

At least (5.00 / 2) (#3)
by SOS on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 09:47:56 AM EST

the 1930s, when we still had plenty of family farms, plenty of oil, plenty of factories in good running order, and a highly regimented population of workers unaccustomed to luxury, leisure, and entitlement.

And seeds that weren't patented (5.00 / 2) (#5)
by inclusiveheart on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 10:07:41 AM EST

and policed.


When push comes to shove (none / 0) (#7)
by Militarytracy on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 10:31:03 AM EST

and eating, I dare someone from Monsanto to run out there and file anything against anyone growing something. And go ahead and bring the "authorities" because we'll bring the people. That Monsanto crap needs to go anyhow, the stuff is mostly sterile isn't it? Not the sort of cross-pollination we need happening any place where living things plan on being.


A lot of the bio-engineered seeds (none / 0) (#9)
by inclusiveheart on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 10:48:11 AM EST

won't produce plants that produce seeds. Just terrific stuff huh!


good read (5.00 / 1) (#13)
by DFLer on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 11:00:06 AM EST

Uncertain peril : genetic engineering and the future of seeds by Claire Hope Cummings.


: I think I'm reading plenty of stuff (5.00 / 2) (#17)
by inclusiveheart on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 11:15:45 AM EST

at the moment that scares me to death. I come from farm stock. The struggles over seeds between powerful conglomerates and indvidual farmers is actually not all that new. The bio-engineered seeds are really just a new twist on an old theme. The farmers co-ops came out of earlier struggles along these lines.

When we are old (5.00 / 2) (#15)
by Militarytracy on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 11:02:21 AM EST

You and I will probably one day read a book about how the second great depression and global corporate collapse ended up inadvertently saving the planet from Monsanto making all of our plant life sterile and unable to reproduce and thereby starving everything and everyone to death.


: You know there are good things that (5.00 / 4) (#16)
by inclusiveheart on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 11:07:06 AM EST

come out of terrible upheaval. If only human beings were better about making those good things happen without needing the experience of terrible upheaval to motivate them.

Although (5.00 / 4) (#18)
by cal1942 on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 11:25:56 AM EST

there were more family farms in the 30s, the nation was highly urbanized and only a tiny percentage of people were able to seek shelter on a farm owned by a family member. Many farms were under threat of foreclosure. The 1920s were not a good decade for farmers.

It should be remembered that before the Roosevelt administration there was no unemployment insurance as we have today in every state. On the day of the market crash the nation was already a few months into a recession. Unemployment had been growing through much of 1929. There was no sudden massive loss of jobs right after the crash but the decline picked up and through 1930 and continued to spiral downward at an ever increasing rate.

Indutrial workers were poorly paid even during the 'boom' times of the 20s and did not share in the nation's prosperity.

It is certainly no saving grace that workers were unaccustomed to luxury, their suffering was the worst of all.

Make no mistake about it the Great Depression was far worse than our current situation, but we're certainly on the road.

There were two pluses compared with today. In 1932 a real leader, a giant, was elected President, a man who actually led and had no fear of making bold moves. He sought no consensus. We still had a significant manufacturing base and as the economy improved there were actually jobs available in manufacturing. That's something we don't really have today and this administration is tormenting not assisting manufacturing.

Roosevelt reformed the financial industry, this administration wants to preserve the beast intact.


That's all true. (none / 0) (#51)
by inclusiveheart on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 05:10:25 PM EST

But during the Depression people were still keeping chickens in the city and more were capable of growing their own food from a skill standpoint at least.


Keeping chickens (none / 0) (#57)
by cal1942 on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 10:50:18 PM EST

But there was little relief in that. My mother's family was living in town and they kept chickens. Nonetheless their diet was still sparse, subsistence at best. She talked about a single egg at lunch, no breakfast, no milk, half a boiled potato and salt pork at dinner. The diet had very little variety. I've often wondered what the chickens ate.

Funny, it reminds me that when I was a little kid a couple of our neighbors kept chickens.


One grandmother was in town (none / 0) (#65)
by inclusiveheart on Thu Apr 02, 2009 at 08:29:10 AM EST

and one was on a farm. Seems they both had a pretty tough time on the food front at that time based on what they used to tell me and the habits they developed as a result of the experience.

But the point I am trying to make is that at that time we were generally far closer to our food sources and more people actually had some practical knowledge of how to grow food. I know a huge number of people who haven't a clue how to keep a house plant alive much less grow something for sustenance.


The circumstances (none / 0) (#66)
by cal1942 on Thu Apr 02, 2009 at 01:27:24 PM EST

led to adopting habits that lasted a lifetime. My mother swore that her family would eat well to the exclusion of all else. She was true to her oath. When I was a kid we had very little but always ate well.

I knew many families whose mothers/fathers bought extra canned goods on every trip to the market for storage against hard times.

A friend's father built several rows of shelving in the basement that were full of non-perishable food.

Facing hunger and an unsure future is hard to forget.


: I always used to laugh when (5.00 / 1) (#67)
by inclusiveheart on Thu Apr 02, 2009 at 05:00:39 PM EST

I went to the country Grandmother's house because when you opened the kitchen cabinets (in her post Depression giant house), you'd always find them chalk full of canned foods. As she got to be older and more infirmed, people would ask if she had enough food and it was just hard not to laugh. Those cabinets stayed replete with provisions until the day she died.
My other Grandmother had twelve cookie tins of soap chips in the attic crawl space. I thought I'd found some "loot", but it was all tiny left over pieces of soap bars.
One Grandmother was way into food and the other was a neat freak. Evidence of both going without and each personality's particular priorities.

wait until may (5.00 / 4) (#4)
by Jlvngstn on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 10:03:02 AM EST

it is a 5 pay period month. Be sure to send a thank you card to your representative for all of their hard work and investment in job creation last september.

When a moron like me can predict this type of job loss 7 months ago and the powers that be cannot, what does that tell you about our elected representatives?

What percentage of 8 trillion is 300 billion?

That is what they committed to stop the bloodletting of job loss versus what they committed to our financial system.

The impact of 742k job loss (and the revised will go higher) in 3 months and 6 months will be untenable.

BTD - I am sorry, you are right. Nationalize now, we are too far gone in UE to have any semblance of a recovery this year. Tax refunds will be used for vitals, groceries etc, and the economy is about to get a whole lot worser than even I had imagined.

My October crash prediction may end up happening in July after an 800k ue report in May.

let's rock the world financial system and drano the hell out of our current system.

: Ditto (none / 0) (#20)
by cal1942 on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 11:32:31 AM EST

That says it all regarding many pols and the 'experts' in Washington and in this administration.

It was a lot worse than I expected (5.00 / 4) (#6)
by Militarytracy on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 10:23:53 AM EST

And I was expecting a pretty horrible number. We the little people are what keeps Wall Street alive, Wall Street does not keep us alive and it never did. God I'm so tired of moaning and wailing. It feels like I've been at it forever now and I get no enjoyment out I told you so either. The only thing that will make me feel any better about any of this is some serious serious superman job creation efforts....not tax cuts or an all out focus on regulations for securitization because securitization is over for a really long time now - but the world of living breathing beings is still going to have to eat. Wall Street is cancerous and they are over for the short term, they did it to themselves again 70 years after doing it to themselves. The long term chaos and collapsing infrastructure they have ushered in insures their own sideline meager existence now for the next ten years at least and I don't give a damn. The only thing I care about are the people who have to put an existence together with no pensions or 401k and a current president practicing at being an idiot and labeling Social Security an entitlement program. The future's not bright....take off the shades.

The difference, (5.00 / 1) (#21)
by cal1942 on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 11:36:14 AM EST

the reason the financial industry was able to muck it up after 70 years, was the elimination of the laws that prevented them from mucking up for nearly 70 years.


Sarkozy has a post at (5.00 / 3) (#23)
by oculus on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 11:40:23 AM EST

Huff Po calling for regulations. Why is he the political leader on this issue? I keep hearing how Obama wants regulations, but what is he doing to implement that wish?


: Or does he want us to think he wants regs? (5.00 / 6) (#25)
by nycstray on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 11:56:00 AM EST

If this were truly a free market though (5.00 / 1) (#29)
by Militarytracy on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 12:24:47 PM EST

the jerks would just fail and the market would automatically purge those who lose their common sense when their greed is tickled. I'm not arguing for no regs, the only future the markets will ever have from here is going to be rebuilt on the regs required. Just pointing out that Wall Street will not survive this in any sort of fashion that resembles the Wall Street we have come to know and there isn't any other option here either. They dug a grave for themselves via mathematical worm holes in the dimension of finance so deep that the dirt doesn't even exist to refill it......we can't even bury their corpses and they are just going to stand before us and start to rot away right before our eyes and there isn't a thing that can be done about it. All we can do is witness our struggle to reanimate the dead and make doomed Zombie banks and rotting Wall Street


Money, money, money (5.00 / 1) (#8)
by SeeEmDee on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 10:41:07 AM EST

That we don't have because it was p!ssed away in Children's Crusades like the DrugWar. Scores of billions yearly; what couldn't we have done with all that money, right now?

What could we do with next year's DrugWar budget?

Demand re-allocation of resources for stupid programs like the DrugWar to life-support programs like unemployment insurance and Medicaid, NOW!

Help me understand...... (5.00 / 2) (#19)
by NYShooter on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 11:31:53 AM EST

So we give trillions to the people whose reckless greed destroyed economies, and families, worldwide....not requiring, but simply hoping, they do "the right thing" and actually lend some of the money to businesses and consumers.

Then, just for show, we bring in some billionaires and ask them to buy a tiny slice of the bad debt aka "toxic assets" (how a worthless scrap of paper can be referred to as an "asset" is another question) and to show them what tough negotiators they are, Obama and Geithner trick
them into letting them keep all the profits (if there are any) and should the "assets" turn out to be worthless, our guys give them a blank, signed check, courtesy of all the unemployed, overpaid auto workers, to reimburse them for participating in this con......kind of a variation of the "heads you win, we lose; tails we lose, you win, street hustle."

So after the cretins who gouged us out of everything we worked our entire lives for have been fully satiated, and after making sure that no greedy pensioners have a hidden dollar stuffed in his/her undergarment somewhere, then.............what?

What good are re-liquefied banks and businesses when the entire customer base lays in ruin?

I think the expression (5.00 / 2) (#22)
by cal1942 on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 11:39:27 AM EST

is 'heads I win, tails you lose'

An apt description of the non-recourse scam we've been told to accept.


Do I get credit (5.00 / 1) (#26)
by NYShooter on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 12:08:21 PM EST

for being grammatically correct, at least?

Hey, you'd make a great cable t.v. "journalist." I write a million words of deeply profound, Talmudic revelations, and you notice my hair parted incorrectly.

lol


Is this grammatically (5.00 / 1) (#27)
by oculus on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 12:17:37 PM EST

correct: "when the entire customer base lays in ruin?"

Let me think: Now I lay me down to sleep, . . .


lay/lie (none / 0) (#30)
by Steve M on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 12:30:18 PM EST

Lay is a transitive verb, it needs an object. "Lay me" will suffice if you're Biblically inclined, but if there is no object, "lie" is the correct verb. So "lies in ruin" is the correct usage.


My Lord, this is painful, but (none / 0) (#41)
by NYShooter on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 01:47:30 PM EST

you are correct.

For once.


As the saying goes (none / 0) (#45)
by Steve M on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 02:29:55 PM EST

even a blind squirrel catches a nut sometimes.

I'm also good with who/whom, but I can never keep that/which straight. English is a hard language.


Oh--so not true. (none / 0) (#46)
by oculus on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 02:34:38 PM EST

Isn't Steve M also the expert on
"imply"/"infer"? Or is that larryinnyc?


I think it's Larry (none / 0) (#49)
by Steve M on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 04:26:12 PM EST

and also, my friend Chris from college...

but really, it's simple. The speaker implies, the listener infers.


Very impressive--for an MSU grad.! (none / 0) (#50)
by oculus on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 05:08:05 PM EST

Oh wait, your team made the Final 4.


Hmph! (none / 0) (#52)
by Steve M on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 06:42:04 PM EST

Does YOUR alma mater have a Dairy Store on campus? Thought not!


Which begs the question . . . (none / 0) (#54)
by nycstray on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 09:07:31 PM EST

{grin} do they sell cloned milk?!


: I thought might be the Iowa State (none / 0) (#58)
by oculus on Thu Apr 02, 2009 at 12:18:57 AM EST

equivalent of MSU's dairy store. But, no.

Apparently I am not authorized to (none / 0) (#60)
by oculus on Thu Apr 02, 2009 at 12:22:04 AM EST

visit this site! But I did. Don't know what Ann Arbor has to offer at present except no local newspaper.


Someone made straight A's in English (none / 0) (#44)
by Militarytracy on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 02:05:17 PM EST

and it all went into his long term memory.


I meant no offense (none / 0) (#56)
by cal1942 on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 10:32:19 PM EST

I always look forward to reading your comments.

The heads - tails gambit was one of my father's favorites, a reminder of my early youth.

But you're right. I suppose it was a tad cable "news" centric, although it certainly wasn't intended.


Intended, or not, (none / 0) (#62)
by NYShooter on Thu Apr 02, 2009 at 03:10:22 AM EST

seemingly innocuous little ditties can leave lasting scars. (I can see
the smirk already; "lasting scars? What othet kind are there?" lol

So what's the scoop with i.e & e.g?


: oops, confused you (none / 0) (#63)
by NYShooter on Thu Apr 02, 2009 at 03:23:54 AM EST

with Steve M.
So, either one. No shouting, please, raise your hand.
No Horschack imitations, "ooh, ooh, ohh..."

Americans need to stop suppressing their (5.00 / 3) (#24)
by Militarytracy on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 11:43:04 AM EST

anger. What is wrong with us? Have we all taken so many antidepressants we can't feel anything geniune anymore? Europe has great healthcare when compared to ours, they have some actual quality of life that this country hasn't had in ages and in the midst of this those people are flaming. Here in America most of us aren't sure if we are all that angry about all this. What does it take for Americans to have some geniune basic human emotions anymore? Do our children have to suffer even more than we have recently allowed them to before we get mad? Voicing our complaints has done little outside of falling on deaf arrogant entitled ears for a very very long time.


We're afraid (5.00 / 2) (#32)
by cenobite on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 12:37:40 PM EST

Americans are afraid of their government, and European government is afraid of its citizens.


MT, what do you propose? (none / 0) (#28)
by oculus on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 12:17:59 PM EST

There has to be some sort of Crawford (5.00 / 1) (#31)
by Militarytracy on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 12:36:58 PM EST

stand made. I'm an entrepreneurial spirit and opportunity is always being created. Whenever some conservative thinks they can rain on reality by talking about how Cindy Sheehan turned out being a little flakey at times I'm always surprised that they thought the whole deal was about Cindy Sheehan. Thousands of people did not drive hundreds of miles on their weekend off to Crawford Texas to console one grieving mother. It was the moment, the time when after 9/11 the trauma and the instinct to unite due to it was over ridden by the higher angels of thousands of people and miles of cars stretched out on a dirt road in nowhere. It was the moment when the tide began to turn and people could say what they really thought about the whole entire mess we got ourselves into. This situation is going to affect all of us more personally. I will be looking for that opportunity though to join my fellowman.....there will come pivotal moments when we are all going to have to show up and present ourselves UNITED against seemingly our own President again. Sheesh........... fricken AGAIN!


I remember watching Cindy Sheehan (none / 0) (#33)
by Militarytracy on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 12:48:25 PM EST

scanning the local Texas papers too for mention of Bush making any visits to any events where we could show up. He was supposed to attend a local little league game and we were talking about going.........any place where we could ask him to talk to Cindy and other people would witness us making the request to know "What Noble Cause?" Cindy had selected a pretty good place to make her initial stand though and I don't think he went to the little league game......thousands of people were showing up and I don't think he did anything other than hide out.


I just went and checked out (none / 0) (#35)
by Militarytracy on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 01:01:08 PM EST

A New Way Forward. I had seen a couple of links around here and remembered the name. They are organizing protests for April 11th. Several listed in Florida, hopefully it will grow. I would drive to Florida to protest.


What would your placard say? (none / 0) (#36)
by oculus on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 01:10:24 PM EST

That would be like writing a thesis (none / 0) (#38)
by Militarytracy on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 01:27:05 PM EST

A better question would be what is my placard going to say if I don't get this CHANGE, and I don't see myself getting that change (and this is not a horrible dig on Obama, just a fact) because my President is currently too arrogant to get this thing going on in short order. I'm probably going to have to make a few rough drafts and I'm probably going to have more than one. It can get boring carrying the same old sign around plus.....there are all sorts of ways of expressing yourself here. My cheap walmartish cap that someone brought a boxful of to Crawford and that has Talk To Cindy scrawled in Sharpie on it still hangs in my husbands office next to his desert boonie cap from Iraq and his Cavalry Stetson.


Here's an idea. Why don't (none / 0) (#42)
by oculus on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 01:55:38 PM EST

you get busy inventing a digital placard: see Times Square and baseball stadiums. Many slogans/implications on one placard.


: I was reading and listening to (none / 0) (#43)
by Militarytracy on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 02:03:13 PM EST

some of the links that J has up for the G-20 and it is astonishing how connected we can be now. The iphone site has posted recordings from the frontlines of the protests.

We're getting change, (none / 0) (#47)
by BrassTacks on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 02:59:11 PM EST

It's just in the wrong direction.


Didn't (none / 0) (#37)
by Ga6thDem on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 01:21:12 PM EST

you go to Texas?


Yes, I went specifically to challenge (5.00 / 1) (#39)
by Militarytracy on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 01:31:20 PM EST

that threat of being arrested and have them try to take away my rights to freedom of speech as an American.....but then something entirely different happened and it was really quite nice :) It was very healing for me too, as this household had suffered some loses due to the Weapons of Mass Destruction bull$h*t. I watched all the cars line up for miles and basically had to try to not bawl like a kid.


: I couldn't remember (none / 0) (#40)
by Ga6thDem on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 01:34:49 PM EST

if you went or not but I thought you had. I wish the whole thing just had never happened but it will be the stench that sticks to Bush and his administration forever.

Upward Mobility (none / 0) (#2)
by SOS on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 09:41:31 AM EST

Good luck with that concept

Everyone should move to DC (none / 0) (#48)
by BrassTacks on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 03:01:55 PM EST

The government is hiring, consulting firms are hiring, big time. Headhunters are calling furiously for employees.

On the downside, I hear that traffic is horrible around Washington, during rush hour and well beyond. And house prices in DC, and close in, are still pretty high. But there are jobs a plenty, the Obama administration is hiring!

Hmmm (none / 0) (#53)
by catmandu on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 08:06:42 PM EST

Europe's healthcare sucks, the depression went hand in hand with the dust bowl and crop reductions, and people were actually starving.
Drug dealers are not sweet misunderstood children
and if you think the good stuff will ever be legalized....well I have a bridge for sale.
We have it bad, but it could be worse.

This downturn isn't that complicated (none / 0) (#55)
by Slado on Wed Apr 01, 2009 at 09:22:48 PM EST

Recently my banker showed me a graph that I link a rough version of at the end and it made me realize that there is nothing we can or should do about this downturn. It's the medicine this country and the world needs and we need to stop whining about it.

Currently consumers, buinesses and the government have a combined debt load that is 3.7 times or 370% of GDP. Think about that for a moment.

This is the highest level since guess what? The Great Depression.

If you made $50K a year and you owed $215K what would you do? You would start saving. Or declare bankruptcy.

Since the economy can't declare bankruptcy it's retracting. Good. We all need to be prepared to lower our standard of living because the standard most people enjoy currently is well beyond their means.

Everything we own, purchase or partake in is at falsley elevated values becasue our governments and banks have made the access to money too easy. Homes, cars, college, TV's etc... all have been fuled in cost, options and quantity by the easy access to money.

There are too many houses, to many cars (sorry GM) and too much stuff produced to be purchased with real wealth.

Blame Wall Street, Blame the Government, blame Bankers and blame yourself.

The economy is trying to retract. That's how capitalism works. Keeping it from doing so is only delaying the innevitable.

Obama is making a problem he inheritied through no fault of his own (no more fault then me) worse by piling on more debt then he inherited. The same people who rode the tidal wave of debt to false riches are telling him he can spend, borrow and print his way out of it.

To what end? Are we lacking in products? Do we need more technology? Why are we keeping companies like GM afloat when they make a product or at least too much of a product that we don't need. We only needed it when we could borrow money to buy it. Now we can't so we don't need it anymore. If GM doesn't go bankrupt who are they going to make cars for? The government?

370% people. Our factories, our facilites and our economy was built for a demand that could only be fueled by debt and the bubble has finally burst. We cannot produce enough real wealth to consume all the product that we've been consuming without borrowing or printing it. Time to take a step back, save, contract and slowly start over by building real wealth.

The longer we hold of the innevitable the bigger the fall will be and Obama is setting us up for a big one.

This is not a partisan issue. It's a common sense one. Since 1952 we've been slowly working our way up and finally the bubble burst. Every time a recession warned us we quickly recovered and ratcheted up the debt to make up for the difference. Finally enough was enough.

Save your anger, your envy and your rage for people who are right now making the problem worse. We can't go back in time right new regulations, make new rules that will mean a hill of beans if our government continues to miss the point that we can't afford to create more debt when there isn't enough real wealth to pull us out of this hole. Who will buy the toxic assests, the cars, the houses and the crap that would need to be bought to grow the economy?

It's going to be bad and the more Obama and DC put it off the worse the fall is going to be.

The loonies at the G20 are more right then the people their protesting for a change.

Sympathy requested by a bank CEO (none / 0) (#59)
by oculus on Thu Apr 02, 2009 at 12:21:02 AM EST

this afternoon on NPR's All Things Considered. The stigma; the stigma. His bank returned the federal dollars.

Slado is right to a certain extent. (none / 0) (#61)
by AX10 on Thu Apr 02, 2009 at 01:25:59 AM EST

See the "Kondratieff Wave".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kondratiev_wave

: I am wrong about one thing (none / 0) (#64)
by Slado on Thu Apr 02, 2009 at 08:25:16 AM EST

50 x 3.7 = $ 185 Million
You would still be broke however.
Also keep in mind my $215 might still be relevant because GDP is flat or declining in 2009 and debt is increasing so Obama is atualy making this percentage go up by creating money out of thin air through more debt.