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U.S. Soldier Opens Fire at Baghdad Counseling Center, Kills 5

By Jeralyn, Section War In Iraq
Posted on Mon May 11, 2009 at 12:50:27 PM EST
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The U.S. soldier who opened fire at a counseling center at Camp Liberty in Baghdad today is in custody. He killed five people, presumably fellow soldiers.

As TChris and I wrote separately yesterday, the death penalty phase of a trial for another homicidal former Iraq soldier, Steven Green, begins today in Paducah, KY.

< Iran Frees Jailed U.S. Journalist | TX Federal Judge Sentenced to 33 Months >

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    U.S. Soldier Opens Fire at Baghdad Counseling Center, Kills 5 | 25 comments (25 topical)

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    ((lots of censored words)) (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by Jen M on Mon May 11, 2009 at 02:00:31 PM EST
    The suicides are bad enough. The rash of domestic violence a few years ago too. I hope this isn't the beginning of another rash.

    ((lots more censored words))

    Stress (none / 0) (#1)
    by lentinel on Mon May 11, 2009 at 01:08:39 PM EST
    These soldiers have been under incredible stress.
    At this point, they must know that a majority of the American people don't even feel they should be there - or should have ever been there.

    Repeated tours of duty - a macabre imposition by Rumsfeld - have taken their toll as well.

    The American people are also feeling the stress although you would not know it thanks to our dead media.

    We voted to get out in 2006. Our democratic congress failed us. Clinton lost the nomination in 2008 largely, I believe, because she was perceived as being more tied to the war than Obama.
    Obama won the presidency because, I believe, he was perceived as being less tied to the war than McCain.

    Reality is rearing its' ugly head.
    We are still there - killing and being killed.
    Our exit strategy, such as it is, is dependent on events over which we have no control.

    I feel this as a sign that we are in a permanent "1984".
    Big Brother is announcing our victories and defeats over Oceania. We are urged to have "hate" sessions - and are told whom to hate and when to hate them.

    I have little hope left for the remnants of our democracy.
    I wonder if we are in store for the type of civil disobedience that ravaged us during the 1960s - and worse.

    I yearn for that civil disobedience... (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by kdog on Mon May 11, 2009 at 01:13:15 PM EST
    but without a draft making the bloody occupations a pressing issue for every American family...its out of sight out of mind, unfortunately.

    I'm with you lentinel...its perpetual war from here on out...war is peace.

    Parent

    I'm not sure (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by lentinel on Mon May 11, 2009 at 01:37:46 PM EST
    that the draft was the major force behind the civil disobedience of the 1960's.

    The student protesters were, by definition, deferred.
    I guess you could say that they would have ultimately faced induction, but I don't feel that that was their primary motivation for opposing the war.

    At that time, the war was reported on a daily basis.
    Reporters were stationed in war zones and film was shown daily of the carnage.
    I also believe that we had leaders at that time who were capable of expressing moral courage. I think in particular of Malcolm X and Martin Luther King. I suppose that one would also have to acknowledge Bobby Kennedy, but I see him more as one who responded to pressure and opportunity than a person of deep conviction on this matter. Still - his challenge to Johnson/Humphrey emboldened many to the cause of ending the war.
    We have no leaders in political life at this time.
    We have no media figures of the stature of an I.F. Stone - relentlessly pointing out reality to those interested.

    And we have a disinterested student class at this time.
    A degree is perceived as a work permit. A means to earn a modest living. Liberal arts? What's that?

    Our soldiers are still being taken from the poorest and most disadvantaged among us. That is at least my perception of it.
    In that, there is not much difference between now and the 1960s.

    But the people have been beaten to a pulp.
    The beating may even have started in earnest in the 1960s.
    We watched as, one by one, people of courage who challenged the actions of our government were assassinated. We watched as students were shot on their on campus.
    The lesson most have learned is not to confront the government.

    Parent

    Having been married to a man who (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by oculus on Mon May 11, 2009 at 01:59:00 PM EST
    was subject to the draft, had a high draft no., and enlisted in the Navy to avoid being drafted into the army, in my opinion, being subject to the draft was a huge motivator for turning out for protests.  But then we also had Rennie Davis, et al.  He even got the President of U of M to show up on stage for a protest.  And we had George McGovern.

    Parent
    And now (none / 0) (#9)
    by lentinel on Mon May 11, 2009 at 02:58:20 PM EST
    we have nobody.

    Not student leaders.
    Not public figures.

    The only person who reminds me of integrity is Helen Thomas.

    I feel for your husband having enlisted to avoid the army.
    I sought refuge in student deferment status.
    But the rebellions on the campus seemed to me to be led by intellectuals - from the faculty as well as the students.
    I was not motivated to participate in many demonstrations.
    I went to one in Washington and it seemed so controlled that I felt like a fool. I also detested slogans. And folk music.

    It wasn't until the demonstrations had the threat of violence that the power structure took notice. Disruptions of traffic. Sit-ins in businesses and other enterprises associated with war. When business as usual became threatened, things started to happen.
    Violence from the government directed at its' own people most notably.

    And I must say that George McGovern was, I thought, a terrible candidate. He had no fire. And we needed fire. I attended a Eugene McCarthy rally in Madison Sq. Garden. He had an audience on the edge of their seats waiting for something. By the time he finished all his "with reference to"s and other literary phrases, the place was asleep.

    Still. We don't even have a McGovern or a E. McCarthy on the scene to ignite any latent sparks.

    The only leader at that time that inspired me was Malcolm X. I believe I would have followed him anywhere. He was honest, brilliant and uncompromising. He was also the least racist person I had ever heard. He also was the one most steeped in American history. Revolutionary history.

    And we know the fate that befell him.

    So, Oculus. What do we do now?


    Parent

    Don't like folk music? That is unamurican. (none / 0) (#20)
    by oculus on Mon May 11, 2009 at 08:12:28 PM EST
    My Navy enlistee spouse spent the first year floating around in the Caribbean and never did have to go to Vietnam.  Not too shabby.  

    The latest "passing" in LAT was a 22-year old young man.  Really sad, but no general outrage.  

    Parent

    And my husband enlisted in the Army, (none / 0) (#21)
    by Anne on Mon May 11, 2009 at 10:25:27 PM EST
    because everyone in his area who got drafted ended up in the Marines!

    He spent 13 months in Vietnam - his first day there, he got dropped by helicopter in the area where his unit was, only to find they were fleeing a jungle fire.

    By luck, he got really sick and after spending weeks recovering, was assigned to a desk job on base.  Up to that point, he was giving his hand grenades away...

    Parent

    Friend of mine had to (none / 0) (#23)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon May 11, 2009 at 11:27:03 PM EST
    drop out of college and was promptly drafted.  He got thrown into training as an interrogator because he was quick with foreign languages.  He learned basic Vietnamese, then found out what the "interrogations" he was to conduct consisted of and fled to Canada.  WHen he came back and turned himself in a couple years later, he was court-martialed, thrown in the brig for a year and finally released with a dishonorable discharge.  He basically had to start his own business in order to have any kind of employment.

    Parent
    Points taken... (none / 0) (#6)
    by kdog on Mon May 11, 2009 at 01:42:35 PM EST
    especially the lesson learned...don't confront the government.  Embarassed to say, I got that message loud and clear...don't be honest and confront, be sneaky...much easier on your constitution.

    But that means the bad guys win and the good guys duck and cover.

    Parent

    The (none / 0) (#10)
    by lentinel on Mon May 11, 2009 at 03:09:03 PM EST
    only thing I can feel is that somehow or other, the feeling to stop this kind of repressive behavior on the part of a government becomes unstoppable. It seems to have its own life.
    I think that revolutions just happen. First there is the feeling. Then, people emerge who articulate that feeling. Then there is a movement and a tidal wave.

    Right now, everyone is still reeling from what Bush has done to us.
    Obama is still mired in the Bush mentality. People had high hopes for him. It ain't over yet, I suppose, but we're on the way to people en masse beginning to feel the weight of dictatorship on their shoulders.

    I got the message about confronting the government also.
    I pay taxes. But I also feel that at present I would be going out on a limb for no purpose. People are not interested. It would be like Don Quixote. Or shouting down a well.

    I can't find the quote - it was either by Franklin or Jefferson:
    To paraphrase, it stated that people will accept being suppressed until it becomes absolutely intolerable. Only then will they act. At present, our condition is tolerable to most people, while civil disruptions would not be.

    Parent

    You nailed it..... (none / 0) (#11)
    by kdog on Mon May 11, 2009 at 03:13:09 PM EST
    But I also feel that at present I would be going out on a limb for no purpose.

    Exactly how I feel too...I ain't hitting the streets without numbers, otherwise you're stuck in a 6X8 for nothing.  I ain't no martyr.

    Parent

    You are mistaken (none / 0) (#22)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon May 11, 2009 at 11:23:14 PM EST
    The draft was a huge, huge, huge motivating factor.  There's nothing concentrates the mind quite like being subject to having to serve yourself-- or your friends or family.  Deferments only worked if you stayed in school, and even a great many college students and their families couldn't afford graduate school.  We all had at least one or two friends or family members who'd been killed or maimed or just emotionally traumatized by Vietnam, or who had to become exiles to avoid having to go or were court-martialed for deserting.  It touched everybody and was a huge and very personal cloud hanging over everyone's head very directly, not just in the abstract.

    Parent
    See AP article on change of command (none / 0) (#4)
    by oculus on Mon May 11, 2009 at 01:36:10 PM EST
    in Afghanistan.  Not encouraging re either Afghanistan or Iraq.

    Parent
    then there is (none / 0) (#3)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon May 11, 2009 at 01:26:06 PM EST
    this:

    Afghanistan Civilian Casualties: Did the US Use White Phosphorous Last Week?

    Just interested (none / 0) (#12)
    by Iamme on Mon May 11, 2009 at 03:52:42 PM EST
    I am for ending the war as well.  I just want to aks what the folks in this thread would do should something similar to 9/11 happen again.

    If say the sears tower in Chicago and the empire state building were the targets of an attack.  What would the response be?  Just clean up the steel and concrete or find out who did it and respond in kind?

    And just for kicks lets say the next year the statue of liberty was targeted as well as the lincoln memorial.  Then what?

    remind me again (5.00 / 3) (#13)
    by CST on Mon May 11, 2009 at 03:55:55 PM EST
    what exactly did iraq have to do with september 11th?

    ooh yea, nothing what-so-ever.

    Parent

    afghanistan talk about that (none / 0) (#14)
    by Iamme on Mon May 11, 2009 at 04:17:04 PM EST
    Debating is such a difficult thing with the whole "I wont let you pin me to something attitude".  I guess if your evasive then you dont have to take a stand.  Is that the response?

    Parent
    I never had a problem (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by CST on Mon May 11, 2009 at 04:24:32 PM EST
    with Afghanistan.  But that's just me personally, and not what this post was about.

    You never mentioned Afghanistan.  Frankly, I think the war in Iraq helped us lose the war in Afghanistan and I have no idea what to do there now.

    But you're also avoiding the fact that you just tried to pin the war with Iraq on 9/11.  So I don't think I was being evasive at all.  Since you weren't talking about Afghanistan.

    In the event of another 9/11 - I do not think we should start a useless war.  That was my response.

    Parent

    Fair enough (none / 0) (#18)
    by Iamme on Mon May 11, 2009 at 04:28:44 PM EST
    Iraq and Afghanistan are two different animals.  One was started for one reason and the other for other reasons.  I guess you did answer the question.  Afghanistan was in response to 9/11 and you personally support that so to extrapolate that should a similar event happen you would support a similar response.  Thanks.

    Parent
    While yes the incident in question (none / 0) (#15)
    by Iamme on Mon May 11, 2009 at 04:20:48 PM EST
    was in Iraq the tone of this thread is war in general.  But yet you chose to do the sidestep and not answer the question.  I am beginning to think the folks here don't like answering questions.  They just want to spout off.  How can I understand your position if you don't answer some questions?

    Parent
    Most of us (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by CST on Mon May 11, 2009 at 04:26:24 PM EST
    are able to distinguish between the two wars, whether we agree with Afghanistan or not.

    Parent
    How About Prosecution In Court of Law (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by john horse on Mon May 11, 2009 at 07:34:50 PM EST
    What is the difference between an act of terrorism and murder?  Why not prosecute anyone who commits an act of terrorism for murder?

    One of the greatest acts of terrorism was the Oklahoma City bombing.  Our justice system may not be perfect but it works better than any of the alternatives.  The victims of Oklahoma City got justice (though I am personally against the death penalty even for McVeigh).  There have been no more major terrorist attacks by those on the right-wing fringe.  Our soldiers did not have to die for light and transient reasons.  We did not lose our civil liberties.  

    What more can you ask for?

    Parent

    The pain from the damage of W Bush's (none / 0) (#25)
    by Militarytracy on Tue May 12, 2009 at 08:08:06 AM EST
    fallacious war is poignant.  It is so nice to read many of the comments here desperately wanting us out.  I don't come from much of a military family prior to marrying my husband, but I do know that how we abandoned Vietnam haunted my Uncle.  Horrible things with American fingerprints on them happened in Vietnam. We also worked hard there and our work inflamed and enraged the conflict.  Then we ditched.  How we went about the whole thing seems to me looking back to have troubled my Uncle as much as the PTSD he was plagued with from the war situations he experienced.  There was no other way to leave Vietnam though other than the abandonment we ended up with.  Iraq is not the same situation as we now have a President drawing down.  We are leaving Iraq though many here think it unlikely.  Our jobs.......continue as much intense pressure as we can to keep the draw down ongoing and intense pressure to make sure our soldiers get all the help we can give them in dealing with what we cannot change and now can only survive.  I know it is hard to stay on track with so much suffering.  I am very pro drawdown leading to our final leave taking, I am not for an abandonment strategy that will leave a huge power vaccum.  The power vaccum we do end up leavinge behind will run red with bloodshed as it is.  P.S.  looks like big dogs had themselves a fight over Afghanistan now too.

    Oh Yippee (none / 0) (#26)
    by Militarytracy on Tue May 12, 2009 at 10:56:40 AM EST
    And now they've gone and released his name......blood in the water.  Couldn't wait a day or something.  My knowing his name right this minute helps nobody in the equation.  I could have easily slept on this sad sad happening before knowing the name of "the shooter" as long as the situation was being tended to and all immediately affected persons being counseled and helped.  Poor families and friends of the deceased!  Poor family and friends of the solider responsible!  If you needed some time yourselves to process this before the press stalks you to your own insanity.....fergetaboutit.

    Parent
    U.S. Soldier Opens Fire at Baghdad Counseling Center, Kills 5 | 25 comments (25 topical)

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