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Torture Worked . . . To Get Cheney the Iraq Debacle He Wanted

By Big Tent Democrat, Section War on Terror
Posted on Fri May 15, 2009 at 07:32:57 AM EST
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Via Digby, it worked for Dick Cheney. How did it work for Dick Cheney? He wanted a war in Iraq. And he got one. And he used torture to get it. As Marcy Wheeler writes:

[S]ometime in February 2002--when Bush was declaring that the Geneva Convention did not apply to al Qaeda and when Bruce Jessen was pitching torture to JPRA--Cheney was personally (according to Wilkerson) ordering up waterboarding. And a month later, when the CIA captured Abu Zubaydah, James Mitchell immediately set up as a contractor so he could waterboard Abu Zubaydah.

Cheney wanted his Iraq War. And he got it. Through torture. See? Torture does work.

Speaking for me only

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    Torture Worked . . . To Get Cheney the Iraq Debacle He Wanted | 30 comments (30 topical)

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    Ouch - "See? Torture does work." (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by Dr Molly on Fri May 15, 2009 at 07:43:44 AM EST
    I particularly love this part that digby wrote, which absolutely slays the 'we had to do it to keep amurica safe' argument:

    "If they had cared about keeping the babies safe they wouldn't have invaded a country in the middle east which had absolutely nothing to do with the attacks, thereby giving the Islamic fundamentalists and the rest of the world good reason to believe that we had completely lost our moorings and proving everything the terrorists said about us."

    Ventura on torture (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by lentinel on Fri May 15, 2009 at 07:57:04 AM EST
    Jesse Ventura, a former Navy Seal, has some insights to offer on torture and its' lack of effectiveness.

    He also comments on gay marriage.

    He speaks plainly.

    I don't know why it is so difficult for others to do so.

    Ventura

    Again with the contractors? (none / 0) (#2)
    by Fabian on Fri May 15, 2009 at 07:54:07 AM EST
    Outsourcing works, too!  Let's outsource culpability!

    I like clammyc a lot (none / 0) (#4)
    by Militarytracy on Fri May 15, 2009 at 09:51:06 AM EST
    but focusing on who called for and who condoned torture in our names is not being distracted by the shiny objects.  Being distracted by the shiny objects is when Stanley McChrystal becomes our new commander in Afghanistan after the full Senate confirmation!

    I'm out for the day (none / 0) (#11)
    by Militarytracy on Fri May 15, 2009 at 11:10:43 AM EST
    Will you guys keep on eye on my question at Dkos for Rep Edwards about whether or not she supports the confirmation of that guy who is my latest migraine......that dark Crystal guy.....something like that?  oculus is my lawyer if anyone tries to prosecute me.

    Parent
    Ummm. Better enlist Jeralyn. (none / 0) (#12)
    by oculus on Fri May 15, 2009 at 11:12:00 AM EST
    I've never done criminal defense!

    Parent
    gee thxs (none / 0) (#14)
    by Militarytracy on Fri May 15, 2009 at 11:36:43 AM EST
    I paid that hellacious speeding ticket a half an hour before they had to issue the bench warrant and I haven't even smoked the dope yet with kdog but you can't even pencil me in for a consult.

    Parent
    Another factor: I am an "inactive" (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by oculus on Fri May 15, 2009 at 12:00:52 PM EST
    member of the state bar at present.  But who will ever know if I just "consult."  

    Parent
    muwahahahaha (none / 0) (#19)
    by Militarytracy on Fri May 15, 2009 at 02:54:34 PM EST
    i just got a palm treo and now i've figured out to blog on it while waiting to pickup kids from school.  i don't know how to capitalize yet though.

    Parent
    I can do that on my Blackberry, except (none / 0) (#20)
    by oculus on Fri May 15, 2009 at 02:56:12 PM EST
    the print is soooo small and it takes forever for the blog to refresh.

    Parent
    Yer always ahead of my curve (none / 0) (#24)
    by Militarytracy on Fri May 15, 2009 at 07:13:18 PM EST
    Always......... It's almost boring.  On your worst day you will have already run two miles and had breakfast before I pour a coffee in my slippers and give myself the hiccups.  I play among mental giants who use technology stuff and other things.

    Parent
    Surely you saw the critic of (none / 0) (#26)
    by oculus on Fri May 15, 2009 at 08:14:23 PM EST
    my Blackberry blogging whilst drinking when I was in NY.  Poor performance typingwise.

    Parent
    I thought you were drunk and on a laptop (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by Militarytracy on Fri May 15, 2009 at 11:54:39 PM EST


    Parent
    MT, Glenn Greenwald's Sat. column (none / 0) (#28)
    by oculus on Sat May 16, 2009 at 10:13:30 AM EST
    calls out Obama's pick to take over our military in Afghanistan.

    Parent
    Thank you soooo much oculus (none / 0) (#29)
    by Militarytracy on Sun May 17, 2009 at 07:33:47 AM EST
    for pointing this out to me.  I will go read it now before baby Zoey gets up, she stayed over last night.  I was busy on most of Saturday.  Josh talked me into going down a water slide at Dothan Water World.  I tried to find a photo of the slide but one is seemingly not available right now.  Afterwards he told me I screamed like a woman.  What a coincidence.

    Parent
    I am surprised the water park didn't (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by oculus on Sun May 17, 2009 at 12:30:51 PM EST
    take a pic of your screaming self and offer to sell it to you!

    Parent
    Well, she went on the record now didn't she? (none / 0) (#21)
    by Militarytracy on Fri May 15, 2009 at 04:29:26 PM EST
    I'd like to thank her for going on the record.  And now I take a moment to ponder if Nancy was this "concerned" when she heard about the torture we were doing?  I wonder if Harman was more "concerned"?  All those things I'm likely to never know as we trudge off to Afghanistan to do our secret classified black ops and surgical assassinations.  I love the smell of napalm in the morning.  It smells like victory.

    Parent
    a nit (none / 0) (#5)
    by exlibris on Fri May 15, 2009 at 09:55:41 AM EST
    Rather than: "Torture Worked . . . To Get Cheney the Iraq Debacle He Wanted",
    worse: Torture Worked . . . To Get Cheney the Iraq Debacle He'd Settle For"

    He knew the consequences and even the catastrophic possibilities that thankfully never happened.  

    Just how did torture and (none / 0) (#6)
    by ChiTownMike on Fri May 15, 2009 at 10:15:59 AM EST
    Abu Zubaydah have an effect on invading Iraq?

    I never heard once that information received from Abu Zubaydah via torture was a reason to invade Iraq. There were many other reasons given but not once was Abu Zubaydah named. This attempted tie of Abu Zubaydah to the Iraq invasion is nonsense.

    Parent

    My pronoun usage may s*ck (none / 0) (#7)
    by Militarytracy on Fri May 15, 2009 at 10:31:54 AM EST
    but I do read

    A former high-ranking state department official has come forward with the explosive report that then Vice President Dick Cheney called for the torture of an Iraqi prisoner to establish a link between al Qaeda and Iraq in the midst of the political controversy over the misrepresentations that led to the Iraq invasion.


    Parent
    He did (none / 0) (#9)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri May 15, 2009 at 10:53:45 AM EST
    but after the fact.

    the real issue is the one Marcy gets to - Chenye urged waterboarding al Libi so that he would say Iraq and al Qaida were connected.  

    Parent

    oops, I thought that was (none / 0) (#10)
    by Militarytracy on Fri May 15, 2009 at 11:02:56 AM EST
    addressed in this write up too.

    Parent
    Interestingly (none / 0) (#8)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri May 15, 2009 at 10:52:50 AM EST
    You seem to not know about al Libi.

    Again, your knowledge shines through.

    Parent

    Interestingly enough (none / 0) (#13)
    by ChiTownMike on Fri May 15, 2009 at 11:14:14 AM EST
    You never mentioned al-Libi in your post or I would have addressed him. I try to stay on topic the best I can.

    I still see no facts of actually going into Iraq "Through torture".

    Parent

    Interestingly enough (none / 0) (#16)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri May 15, 2009 at 12:41:37 PM EST
    I never mentioned anyone but Cheney by name in my post.

    Maybe you want to discuss him.

    Parent

    I don't know about that (none / 0) (#18)
    by ChiTownMike on Fri May 15, 2009 at 02:45:46 PM EST
    You also mentioned Digby, Marcy, and cited Bruce Jessen,  Abu Zubaydah, and James Mitchell in your quoted article. But NO al-Libi! Batting zero I'd say for who you mentioned and who you did not. No big deal. Just saying for the record.

    Cheney? Yeah I'll just mention that he never did call for a Truth Commission as another one of the Bozo's you quoted yesterday said. Some of the guys you are quoting are in free fall as far as credibility goes. They have things so wrong they might as well write for the MSM. Heck they are giving Fox News a run for their money in the making stuff up department.

    Parent

    I quoted (none / 0) (#22)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri May 15, 2009 at 04:37:42 PM EST
    and cited posts.

    In terms of PRINCIPALS, I mentioned Cheney.

    Take the clown shoes off.


    Parent

    So why earlier (none / 0) (#23)
    by ChiTownMike on Fri May 15, 2009 at 06:37:16 PM EST
    did you ask about al-Libi who you neither quoted or cited but yet expected him to be addressed? Very odd.

    And leave my shoes out of it. What do you expect the attire to be when one comes to a 3-Ring circus? :)

    Parent

    Just say no... (none / 0) (#17)
    by wevotedforyou on Fri May 15, 2009 at 01:10:29 PM EST
    Very dissapointing that our elected officials, especially within the Democratic Party, has now taken such a different approach in the discussions of Torture and the previous administrations corruption and illegal activities.

    I am glad to see Cheney (and Pelosi for that matter) in the media (especially places other than foxnews) and is helping keeping the torture debate front and center.

    We need to continue to keep the pressure on the President and Congress to do as we voted for. Change.

    i'm guessing they got (none / 0) (#25)
    by cpinva on Fri May 15, 2009 at 07:58:52 PM EST
    some detainees to confess to being witches too. hey, it worked for the inquisition!

    Torture Worked . . . To Get Cheney the Iraq Debacle He Wanted | 30 comments (30 topical)

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