Wrong Under Bush, Wrong Under Obama

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Civil Liberties
Posted on Tue Jun 23, 2009 at 03:42:39 PM EST
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Via Susie Madrak, Bob Herbert:

Policies that were wrong under George W. Bush are no less wrong because Barack Obama is in the White House.

[It is] distressing is the curtain of secrecy the Obama administration has kept drawn over shameful abuses that should be brought into the light of day. . . . The Obama administration is also continuing the Bush administration’s abuse of the state-secrets privilege. . . . The Bush and Obama view of the state-secrets privilege effectively bars any real examination of such egregious mistakes.

The new president’s excessively cautious approach to the national security and civil liberties outrages of the Bush administration are unacceptable, and the organizations and individuals committed to fairness, justice and the rule of law — the Center for Constitutional Rights, the American Civil Liberties Union, and many others — should intensify their efforts to get the new administration to do the right thing.

(Emphasis supplied.) To be fair, Herbert criticizes some Obama policies that I actually agree with. But if you disagree with these and others, take Herbert's advice to heart -- "intensify your efforts to get [Obama] to do the right thing."

Speaking for me only

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Wrong Under Bush, Wrong Under Obama | 28 comments (28 topical)

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Bob (5.00 / 1) (#2)
by jbindc on Tue Jun 23, 2009 at 04:02:19 PM EST

We'll ignore the fact that you're late to the party, but instead celebrate the fact that you showed up at all.

Nope. We may forgive (5.00 / 1) (#4)
by Cream City on Tue Jun 23, 2009 at 05:31:27 PM EST

but to forget that some people are fools is foolish.

If he can get through to the other fools who trust him, though, then he may still have a purpose and not be a waste of trees.


: As they say ... (5.00 / 1) (#17)
by Robot Porter on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 08:47:36 AM EST

who's worse the fool or the fool who follows him?

Well, the scales seem to have fallen (5.00 / 3) (#5)
by Anne on Tue Jun 23, 2009 at 05:36:38 PM EST

from eyes that, for a long time, could see no wrong in anything Obama did or said; Obama was the "chessmaster," as I recall, able to see many moves ahead, which is why us mere mortals sometimes could not make sense of what he was doing or saying.

This will be interesting. Those who were into the Obama phenomenon so deep that they lost all perspective are at risk for going too far in the other direction as they come to grips with their anger not just at what Obama is and is not doing, but at having to face the truth.

If there is one sentence in Herbert's column that should become the mantra of those who care more about the country than any party or ideology, it is:

Policies that were wrong under George W. Bush are no less wrong because Barack Obama is in the White House.

Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

Supreme Court Refuses to Hear Plame's Lawsuit (5.00 / 1) (#7)
by Edger on Tue Jun 23, 2009 at 08:25:22 PM EST

The US Supreme Court on Monday refused to hear a civil lawsuit filed by Valerie Plame Wilson and her husband, former Ambassador Joseph Wilson, against Bush administration officials who were responsible for leaking her covert CIA status to the media and attacking her husband for accusing the White House of twisting prewar Iraq intelligence.
The Supreme Court's rejection effectively brings the three-year-old case to a close.
...
Last week, Obama's Justice Department argued against the release of the Cheney transcript that CREW sought via a Freedom of Information Act request explaining his role in blowing Plame's cover.
...
When asked by US District Court Judge Emmet Sullivan whether the Obama administration was standing behind the refusal of George W. Bush's Justice Department to release the transcript, Smith answered, "This has been vetted by the leadership offices. This is a department position."
...
CREW had been hoping that the Obama administration would approach the lawsuit in a different manner.
But last month, the Obama administration's representative before the Supreme Court, Solicitor General Elena Kagan, had also sought the dismissal of the civil suit.
...
That was not the first time Obama's Justice Department has backed the Bush administration's position on issues related to the CIA leak case.

read the entire article...

It's that shiny new era of openness. "Yes we can." Now just try and stop us.

Something is very, very wrong (5.00 / 1) (#30)
by NYShooter on Thu Jun 25, 2009 at 04:35:44 PM EST

Even if I had not served in combat, or had my father not been a covert operative in the Russian Army during WW2, the unrelenting rage I feel toward Cheney/Bush would be just as incurable.

What kind of moral mutant, traitor being the mildest description, could conceive, even were it in black-humor, private conversation, of betrayal of this magnitude? In re-thinking this episode every noun, verb, adjective, and adverb instantly shoots to the superlative degree. The role Valerie Plame chose for herself defines honor, commitment, and valor to a degree most of us couldn't begin to imitate, yet wish we could. Now she will never enjoy justice, and the perpetrators will never be brought to it.

My gums bleed with anger at the thought of those two stinking rich, nere-do-well cowards, one a draft dodger, the other a deserter, exposing this lady; this patriot, to mortal danger....... just for sport. The Kafkaesque quality of the very people who should epitomize support and loyalty, actually being disgusting quislings, and dishonoring the brave men and women, in uniform, and without, is the face of evil, and should be called out, prosecuted, and punished in a way that no matter what, would be inadequate.

Those two vertical, pus-forms, are the metaphors for the Hell unleashed upon us by the black robed criminals-with-averted-eyes who spat upon, and broke our country almost ten years ago.

That Obama chose this association is really all you have to know.


Barry Obama - Bush Supporter (none / 0) (#22)
by JLFuller on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 04:28:26 PM EST

The silliness of demagoguery and complaining runs headlong into the realities of running the country. DAMN IT!


Yeah, dammit. That reality is... (5.00 / 1) (#25)
by Edger on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 05:27:56 PM EST

The Dawning Age of Obama as a Potentially Teach-able Moment for The Left

..."those who bought into the slogans 'Hope' and 'Change' last fall should have read the fine print. We were warned."
[snip]
So whipped-dog "progressives can only hope that the great, wise, and wonderful Wizard of Ozbama and our other corporate-sponsored "leaders" can have the boldness to save the day?
[snip]
As Obama himself (along with John Edwards) repeatedly noted during the presidential campaign, in a comment that has not fallen from Obama's lips since he reached the White House, "change doesn't happen from the top down. Change happens from the bottom up.""

Sucks, doesn't it?

Despite claiming that his campaign wealth comes from small individual donors, Obama is backed by the biggest Wall Street firms: Goldman Sachs, UBS AG, Lehman Brothers, J P Morgan Chase, Citigroup, Morgan Stanley and Credit Suisse, as well as the huge hedge fund Citadel Investment Group. "Seven of the Obama campaign's top 14 donors," wrote the investigator Pam Martens, "consisted of officers and employees of the same Wall Street firms charged time and again with looting the public and newly implicated in originating and/or bundling fraudulently made mortgages."
[snip]
The U.S. government and the Federal Reserve have spent, lent or committed $12.8 trillion, an amount that approaches the value of everything produced in the country last year, to stem the longest recession since the 1930s.
...
President Barack Obama and Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner met with the chief executives of the nation's 12 biggest banks on March 27 at the White House to enlist their support to thaw a 20-month freeze in bank lending.

"The president and Treasury Secretary Geithner have said they will do what it takes," Goldman Sachs Group Inc. Chief Executive Officer Lloyd Blankfein said after the meeting. "If it is enough, that will be great. If it is not enough, they will have to do more."

: Reality... ugh... (none / 0) (#27)
by JLFuller on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 05:57:14 PM EST

Oh Edgar, you smooth talking Yankee!

White wash (5.00 / 4) (#9)
by pluege on Tue Jun 23, 2009 at 09:06:49 PM EST

The new president's excessively cautious approach to the national security and civil liberties outrages of the Bush administration

if it was bush, what Obama is doing - outrageous abuse of power and disingenuous coverup - would have been met with howls. That its Obama doing the abusing makes it no less outrageous.

The left's quiet acceptance of Obama's bush-like outrages is outrageous in and of itself and highlights the shallowness of so many on the left - made of no less substance-free boosterism than the right.

And... (5.00 / 1) (#18)
by lentinel on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 08:51:15 AM EST

talk about the complacency of the left about Bush-like outrages...

We are still in Iraq.


: And..would be (none / 0) (#26)
by jondee on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 05:42:38 PM EST

no matter which one of the frontrunners had been elected.
Regardless of what Fox and jackdaws of talk radio say, anything to the left of Bush and the neocons isnt "the left".

Amen (none / 0) (#1)
by andgarden on Tue Jun 23, 2009 at 03:45:00 PM EST

Mookie ... (none / 0) (#3)
by Robot Porter on Tue Jun 23, 2009 at 04:14:01 PM EST

always do the right thing!

Secrecy (none / 0) (#6)
by JLFuller on Tue Jun 23, 2009 at 07:45:48 PM EST

I find it bizarre that the left thinks it is OK to add to our military people's risk of death and injury by releasing these photos. This makes no sense at all. The sense of proprtionality is missing in that argument. Just what can the release of these items do that has not already been done? What possible good can come of it?

To the contrary, those who promote the release should be concerned about their personal credibility. It seems to me that the most important thing a person has is his or her beleivability. After all, no one pays attention to cranks and whack jobs so I think it is best to stay out of that bed.

The photos have (5.00 / 4) (#8)
by BackFromOhio on Tue Jun 23, 2009 at 09:03:18 PM EST

long ago been released through non-official channels. What puts our military & intelligence professionals at risk is the existing knowledge of the ugly things that have transpired; continuing to ignore these things, as though wishful thinking will make them go away, will only reinforce the view outside this country that we have and will continue to do as we please. We are only fooling ourselves if we think the rest of the world is ignorant of our misdeeds. That said, it is important to acknowledge the many military and intelligence professionals who have conducted themselves in honorable fashion.


What will keep us and our military safest (5.00 / 6) (#10)
by ruffian on Tue Jun 23, 2009 at 09:17:47 PM EST

is the world knowing we will bring justice to the perpetrators of ugly war crimes, even our own. It is the horror of such things happening without acknowledgement and justice that inflames people against us who would not have already been against us. The rest will do what they would have done anyway and use any convenient excuse.

In addition, the point is that we have no idea what is being kept secret. You are taking the government's word for what is in the pictures and the effect they would supposedly have. the government saying something is a threat to national security by no means makes it so.


Very well said (none / 0) (#16)
by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 06:46:01 AM EST

The Govt word (none / 0) (#20)
by JLFuller on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 04:19:11 PM EST

Your President says it is so and after all, he is a Democrat. How dare you, a mere mortal, have a different opinion. Take it back or I will sick Brian Williams and Chris Matthews on you and then you will be sorry.


A Safer Military (none / 0) (#23)
by JLFuller on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 04:42:08 PM EST

Ruffian says "...justice that inflames people against us". Is it kind of like what what happened on 9/11? What had we done to piss those people off?

In India, there is an apocryphal story about the Untouchables having to apologize to the higher casts for existing. Is that kind of your thinking here too? We ought to apologize to the terrorists for existing? Do they have the right to murder us by the thousands and force us to adopt Islam because we just exist in their world?

Crap happens in war. It can't be helped. It is too bad but there you are. We can try to fix it afterwards, but crucifying our people in public just so we don't piss someone else off is as nutty as the bizarre apologies the Untouchables were/are forced to make.


: Just exactly (none / 0) (#28)
by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 11:26:46 PM EST

which one and where that we tortured was linked to 9/11? I really need to know who was worth coughing up our honor and self respect for and what was gained in doing so. Cuz this is what I know. In Iraq if they thought you knew anything....anything at all about anything that anyone deemed made you possibly suspect, you got to visit camp NAMA. Pretty sure that there is still no link between 9/11 and Iraq now. Another huge problem that took place was when we blew into Afghanistan looking for the bad guys, a bunch of guys got turned into us as well who had just pissed off the wrong person at the wrong time...I don't think we were very nice to any of them and don't think we cared if they could have been innocent or not. We literally had no standards, but who knows for certain because some people are too ashamed to deal with what was done in our names without regard to anything other than our blind paranoia and insanity.

Justice (none / 0) (#24)
by JLFuller on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 04:48:38 PM EST

Can you show me where exposing our misdeeds has ever prevented the enemy and his fellow travelers from attacking us? Show me a nasty trial ANYWHERE that was the cause for the enemy to stop, reassess and then say "OK now. You guys did a bad thing but you repented so we won't blow you up anymore." And did they call off their attacks and make peace with us. Did it happen to anyone?

Your logic is soft in a couple three places ruffian.


: Show me where the "muslim world" (none / 0) (#29)
by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 11:29:21 PM EST

discovering our past misdeeds done to them actually got anyone sporting the red, white, and blue killed.

I find it bizarre that the right thinks (none / 0) (#14)
by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 06:40:29 AM EST

it is OK to hide the Bush adminstration's sanctioning and ordering of United States Military torture on the battlefield. This makes no sense at all. The sense of proportionality is missing in that argument. What can the release of these items do? It can allow us to begin to address and heal what has already been done. What possible good can come of it? We can begin to feel good about living in our own skin again. We can remember who we are and not simply remember what we are programmed to be afraid of and feed our paranoias.

To the contrary, those who promote hiding our departure from the Geneva Conventions and our embrace of soul murdering torture should be concerned about their personal credibility. It seems to me that the most important thing a person has is his or her believability. After all, no one pays homage to lying torturing murderers and only cranks and whack jobs get into bed with them.

(High school debate team is a terrible thing to waste)


I do care about my husband (none / 0) (#15)
by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 06:44:05 AM EST

and I don't want him killed due to some sort of fresh outrage. It is pretty hard to get all worked up about it though when a popular saying among Apache pilots is, "Don't run, you'll just die tired." My husband isn't much of a vulnerable global underdog.


: Running (none / 0) (#21)
by JLFuller on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 04:23:43 PM EST

Apache drivers are a very wise lot and good advice for the Jihadist. I wonder: do suicide bombers mothers make sure they are wearing clean underwear?

If NPR are now relabeling... (none / 0) (#11)
by Salo on Tue Jun 23, 2009 at 09:22:16 PM EST

...Water boarding (or as it was known to our granddads: Water Torture) Should we begin to rethink the tag of terrorist? I propose we call them "Unsportmanlike Combatants". or perhaps "plain clothes soldiers". Is there any other suggestion you could make to torture plain English?

How about we relabel the Mullahs in Iran too? "leaders a bit quick to bring on the law enforcement." or Bush? "A Geneva scofflaw"?

The possibilities are endless.

About how to draw conclusions (none / 0) (#19)
by joze46 on Wed Jun 24, 2009 at 04:15:24 PM EST

Big Tent is being honest and forthcoming to say

"[It is] distressing is the curtain of secrecy the Obama administration has kept drawn over shameful abuses that should be brought into the light of day. . . . The Obama administration is also continuing the Bush administration's abuse of the state-secrets privilege. . . ."

Heck, the issues have to be aggravating to someone as new to Presidential level of politics as Obama. As Obama finds out a mistake is critical and treated with vicious retaliation either serious or in a comedy way in the media all though the media it self is oppressive selective bias and Plus as a person climbing the rungs of power it is interesting to watch the caution by some one who is of very mix blood, Obama appears more Conservative than those who claim to be great American Conservatives.

This includes the famous Sean Hannity, or on the other end of the spectrum Chris Mathews who has to advertise that they are good. At what? Answer avoiding the truth...

Reading through the past eight years must be chore, considering there has to be tons, and volumes of material to go through to be sure about how to draw conclusions. Of a series of horrible political actions that appear in the on going analysis care has to be priority one in legislation and governance that is fit for America. To be sure the last eight years is with out any doubt the most unfit Judegments made for the direction of the country.

This begs the question "What is being kept secret???" Moreover it is the natural right of the living citizens to reflect back and debate those decisions as to whether they were good Judgement. Not to wait till everyone is dead and use the phrase it will not matter. It does help and the system better and a success. Being secret only enhances a tyranny...which we have now.

Ladies and Gentlemen of America for all of us to be able to take this moment to the next level that transparency should happen. We as Americans should be able to reflect on any and all secrets open them up and discuss them, Obviously it will not be pretty the Democrats along with the Republicans will suffer set backs.

The greed and power that has sweep through our system these decades is sturdily corrupt foul and mixed with foreign influence that is draining and bankrupting what we have. It is with the distinction here that ninety percent of these characters are college graduates. That is the frightening part and the most important reason to open up freedom by opening up those secrets.

For Bush and Company it was the right thing to do, keep all kinds of stuff secret. Obama is being very careful to whom he is going to trash. And being a college person he needs to exerise cautious prudent honest with America be becuase if he screws up...a Joe six pack will be the next president. College grads will have no future here.

To be honest very many College Grads I deal with now as a boss are self centered full of personal goals, they have only one concern a self centered piece of the pie at my expense...and my open heart to help them.