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Palin: Hillary Did Not Go Through What I Am Going Through

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Other Politics
Posted on Wed Jul 08, 2009 at 09:09:27 PM EST
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Earlier I wrote about Palin's Hypocrisy. Via Digby, Palin repeats her hypocrisy and falsehoods:

[Q:]At one point during the campaign you said Hillary Clinton whines a little bit too much about being in the public eye. Do you now sort of sympathize with her?

[PALIN]: What I said was, it doesn't do her or anybody else any good to whine about the criticism. And that's why I'm trying to make it clear that the criticism, I invite that. But freedom of speech and that invitation to constructively criticize a public servant is a lot different than the allowance to lie, to continually falsely accuse a public servant when they have proven over and over again that they have not done what the accuser is saying they did. It doesn't cost them a dime to continue to accuse. That's a whole different situation. . . .

(Emphasis supplied.) Palin is full of it here. For anyone who has slept through the last 2 decades and the last political campaign, Digby has the details.

Speaking for me only

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    Poor Baby (5.00 / 3) (#1)
    by squeaky on Wed Jul 08, 2009 at 09:19:36 PM EST
    Delusional, and playing politics to the hilt. What is implied here is that all the relentless sexism, lies and smears foisted on Hillary over the years were well deserved "constructive criticism",  while all the sexism, lies and smears that were hurled at her was unfair dirty politics.

    GOP, what they do best, shamlessly lie about what happened with the intent to gain political advantage.  

    Destroy Sarah Palin (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by kidneystones on Wed Jul 08, 2009 at 09:22:05 PM EST
    You have to wonder which party controls the White House and Congress. I realize that beating-up on Palin is a whole lot easier than questioning why debt that was destructive under Bush is now necessary and even beneficial under Dems. Calls for ending the WAR NOW! have all but disappeared now that the donkey party is pulling the bomb levers.

    Is Digby too old to serve her country and fight in the wars her president is bent on fighting? How about Matt or Duncan Black? Given the levels of hypocrisy we've seen from dem bloggers racing to defend policies they deplored under Bush, I'd say Palin comes off pretty well.

    Palin is just one more lying politician. The difference is she has no charge to solve America's problems. Dems do and they're failing miserably.

    No surprise there.

    Are you really directing that comment (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Jul 08, 2009 at 09:34:09 PM EST
    at me?

    You must be joking. To break it down for you, the reason I wrote this post and my previous one was that Palin has not recognized the underlying sexism the permeated the character assassinations against Clinton AND herself.

    As for Obama's policies, I criticize those I disagree with and write in support of the ones I agree with.

    I do what I always did - write what I think is correct.

    I really resent your comment.

    Parent

    You're welcome (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by kidneystones on Wed Jul 08, 2009 at 09:49:55 PM EST
    To own as much of the criticism as you feel you deserve. I've identified three folks specifically and you're not one.

    Generally speaking you've been one of the few bright lights. Waxing forth on Palin sucks up valuable oxygen that might be better spent, IMHO, discussing problems, not personalities.

    Palin is no more or less hypocritical than HRC; and I say that as an HRC fan. Politicians are elected to serve as moral exemplars, but simply to get stuff done.

    The lack of transparency under this administration is inexcusable. You've done a good job of taking them to task. Piling on Palin is a complete waste of time, especially given the venality of much of the criticism from the left (criticism that you rightly note).

    How many folks really feel optimistic now that Dems are in charge?

    Parent

    Make that (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by kidneystones on Wed Jul 08, 2009 at 09:51:21 PM EST
    Not serve as moral exemplars. In most countries we expect our politicians to lie at all times. Americans are looking for politicians who they can trust. Amazing.

    Parent
    Sexism is a huge problem (5.00 / 4) (#11)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Jul 08, 2009 at 10:05:14 PM EST
    And Palin's remarks dismiss it.

    Please recall that when Palin was announced as McCain's VP choice, Clinton celebrated the rise of a woman to that role and NEVER engaged in attacks of Palin's person, but rather her policy positions. Palin on the other hand, DID criticize Clinto for "whining."

    Your comparison of the two and how they behaved is simply wildly inaccurate.

    Take ALL of the criticism in this comment to be directed squarely at you and your false equivalencies.  

    Parent

    So...judging by the loud and immediate (5.00 / 5) (#3)
    by Anne on Wed Jul 08, 2009 at 09:24:55 PM EST
    "HA!" that came out of my mouth when I read the post title, the mystery of what's next for Palin has been solved: comedy.

    I predict much heckling and booing.

    Boy, how I would love to know what Hillary thinks of all of this...

    She's probably too busy (none / 0) (#4)
    by weltec2 on Wed Jul 08, 2009 at 09:33:20 PM EST
    to give it much thought right now. But if she does chance to think about it it may give her a chuckle or two. That's about all it's worth.

    Parent
    72% of GOP voters say they'll (none / 0) (#19)
    by oculus on Wed Jul 08, 2009 at 10:59:58 PM EST
    vote for Palin for President (per Huff Post headline).

    Parent
    O rilly? (none / 0) (#40)
    by Fabian on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 08:35:43 AM EST
    And Obama's approval rating here in Ohio (bellwether and swing state) has dropped below 50%.

    I know which poll is more relevant to the 2010 & 2012 elections.

    Parent

    Yes (5.00 / 6) (#6)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Wed Jul 08, 2009 at 09:37:24 PM EST
    Palin is full of sh*t here.  

    The irony is that the harrassers in both cases were often people who call themselves "libruls," even claim to support women.

    I saw this movie the first time (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by oldpro on Wed Jul 08, 2009 at 09:40:23 PM EST
    and I rarely enjoy reruns when I didn't like the original release.

    There is a context to her quote (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by Cream City on Wed Jul 08, 2009 at 09:59:28 PM EST
    about the accusations of a public servant, inartful as Palin is in trying to point out that Hillary Clinton was not when her husband was in the White House.  But the result is the same for Alaska as it was for the White House: paralysis of government, according to officials there.  

    This situation developed because Alaska's transparency laws allow anyone to file Freedom of Information Act requests. While normally useful, in the hands of political opponents FOIA requests can become a means to bog down a target in a bureaucratic quagmire, thanks to the need to comb through records and respond by a strict timetable. Similarly, ethics investigations are easily triggered and can drag on for months even if the initial complaint is flimsy. Since Ms. Palin returned to Alaska after the 2008 campaign, some 150 FOIA requests have been filed and her office has been targeted for investigation by everyone from the FBI to the Alaska legislature. Most have centered on Ms. Palin's use of government resources, and to date have turned up little save for a few state trips that she agreed to reimburse the state for because her children had accompanied her. In the process, though, she accumulated $500,000 in legal fees in just the last nine months, and knew the bill would grow ever larger in the future.

    "The Alaska ethics elves had painted such a target on Sarah's forehead that she had begun turning down pretty much every invitation she got -- even though they were pouring in every day by the dozens," a confidant of the governor's [said]. . .   Family considerations also played a role. Ms. Palin gave birth to a baby with Down's Syndrome in 2008, and also has a six-year old. Everyone in the family was weary of endless personal attacks, including mean-spirited suggestions on liberal blogs that all of her children should have been aborted and that she would run on a presidential platform promoting retardation.  Governor Palin tried hunkering down. She ignored offers of help from outside and kept media outlets at a distance.

    If it was my governor not getting much done, my state in this situation, I'd be ticked, too.  And my state has great FOIA laws.  Alaska just sounds more dysfunctional all the time.

    Where she will be in time, who knows?  She is young for politics with a lot of time left, and she still has high approval ratings from the GOP hoi polloi.  It can only be hoped by Dems that she heads off to teevee or something and stays there.  And I read today that the alternative may be Jeb Bush, back again.  Really now, can't the GOP find anything but another Bush?!

    Non Sequitur (5.00 / 5) (#16)
    by squeaky on Wed Jul 08, 2009 at 10:38:18 PM EST
    Palin was clearly sexist in calling out Hillary for whining. And for her to continue this nonsense is absurd, ahistorical and pure GOP partisan politics.

    What I think faIr or unfair criticism......, Hillary does herself a disservice to even mention it. You have to plow through that, you have to know what you are getting into.... when I hear a statement like that coming from a woman candidate with any kindt of a perceived whine about that excess criticism or a sharper microscope put on her, I think, man that doesn't do us any good. Women in politics, women in general wanting to progress this country, I don't think it bodes well for her.

    work harder prove yourself to an even greater degree that you are capeable... It bothers me a little bit bringing attention to herself on that level.

    My transcription Palin March 2008  

    Lets look at what the criticism was:

    COLMES: Hey, Dick, it's very interesting to me that, for example, the Democrats keep getting accused of being sexist. Saturday Night Live does a skit, [McCain adviser] Carly Fiorina says it's sexist, even though Hillary is mocked as well. You said, when Hillary was running, you said when a woman who wants to be president, she shouldn't complain based on gender. What happens when the boys of Russia or China start picking on her --

    MORRIS: Yeah.

    COLMES: -- that's what Hillary always [unintelligible].

    MORRIS: Yeah.

    COLMES: But now they claim that Sarah Palin --

    MORRIS: But Palin has never complained.

    COLMES: -- is somehow being blamed --

    MORRIS: That's the whole point.

    COLMES: -- that she's being victimized here.

    MORRIS: The whole point is that Sarah Palin has never complained. She never cried on television --

    COLMES: But her -- the surrogates are complaining that there's sexism.

    MORRIS: -- like Hillary did in New Hampshire.

    link

    And Palin chimed in to support the MF sexists. Now she is whining and saying that she is leaving the kitchen because she can't take the heat. Self sacrifice for Alaska, my a$$...

    She is moving out of Alaska to lead the GOP so, among other regressive things, they can set back women's rights 150 years.

    Parent

    My gov doesn't respond to Letterman (5.00 / 0) (#37)
    by lilybart on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 07:40:08 AM EST
    She gets nothing done because she spends her time answering every petty slight on every blog and talk show in the known universe.

    Has President Obama ever called People Magazine to complain about the mean bloggers at RedState?

    Has Hillary whined on her facebook page that the media is mean to her?  NO. they are both grown-up professionals.

    She gets nothing done because she only cares about herself.

    Parent

    You need to understand more (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by Cream City on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 08:34:19 AM EST
    about FOIA requests, which are quite different from talk-show hosts' comments and bloggers' blather.

    I have dealt with FOIA requests, and they can be incredibly time-consuming and costly -- often because those making the requests also are ignorant.

    Parent

    Topic: Treatment Worse Than Hillary (5.00 / 0) (#46)
    by squeaky on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 09:57:25 AM EST
    That is the subject, not FOIA requests.
    There are zero well funded liberal hit groups trying to get Sarah Palin. The ethics complaints that have been filed against her are coming from her own constituents and local officials who are fed up with her. And she's lying about the extent of the complaints remaining and calculating the costs in the most ridiculous way possible. Her endless hyperbole on the subject indicates that she can't do her job if people are criticizing her, which disqualifying in a politician.

    digby

    Parent

    Subtopic (5.00 / 2) (#50)
    by Cream City on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 10:15:51 AM EST
    in this thread.  You don't like it, leave it.

    Parent
    Your Hijack (1.00 / 1) (#58)
    by squeaky on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 10:35:35 AM EST
    Is now the subtopic of this thread? Wow, that is tricky.

    Parent
    No, squawky. Providing context (5.00 / 0) (#102)
    by Cream City on Sat Jul 11, 2009 at 12:17:26 PM EST
    is not hijacking.  That you wouldn't know the difference is telling -- but not at all surprising.

    Parent
    Lol (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 11, 2009 at 12:40:05 PM EST
    Whatever you say boss...  You can contort the topic to whatever you want..  You are the official defender of all things Palin..

    Parent
    FOIA requests? (none / 0) (#53)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 10:21:20 AM EST
    LOL.  Yes, I'm sure the Governor and her staff are personally dealing with FOIA requests.  

    Ethics complaints do not equate to FOIA requests.  Very difference animals.  Maybe you need to understand more about the differences between the two.  

    Parent

    Actually, they do (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by jbindc on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 10:28:23 AM EST
    Since the lawyers and staff who process FOIA requests are members of the executive branch, they DO work for the governor.

    Here's one breakdown

    Parent

    Being one of those... (5.00 / 0) (#57)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 10:34:09 AM EST
    "lawyers and staff", I am well aware of who I work for.  And I'll be DG'd if I've ever, ever, ever seen the Governor and their staff personally handle a FOIA request, much less an Executive Director or Commissioner.  

    Parent
    lol (1.00 / 0) (#59)
    by squeaky on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 10:36:24 AM EST
    Hard to fend off the cultists, they will say anything to defend their man. lol

    Parent
    Can't you just picture... (5.00 / 0) (#60)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 10:48:31 AM EST
    ...poor over-worked Governor Palin hunched over a copy machine with a staple puller in one hand and a stapler in the other?  

    Parent
    Not To Mention (5.00 / 0) (#61)
    by squeaky on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 10:57:27 AM EST
    Reports have just come out from the Governors office that indicate Palin was lying about the all the money wasted on ethics complaints which could have gone to more important matters, like building roads, schools, etc.

    It turns out that the "millions" in state funds that have been diverted to defend attacks on Palin were the 1.9 million dollars already allocated to state lawyers in the budget. IOW that was the total of the state lawyers salaries. No extra money was spent.

    link

    Parent

    Exactly... (none / 0) (#63)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 11:07:02 AM EST
    ...it's built into the system already.  Planned for, procedures written and implemented, budgeted and staffed.  Part of the cost of doing business for a State government.  

    Parent
    Yeah...and after making ten copies of a 100 (5.00 / 0) (#62)
    by easilydistracted on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 11:04:03 AM EST
    page document, discovering that she forgot to push the collate button. Heh. Hey, Mile...how ya been.

    Parent
    Been there, done that! (none / 0) (#64)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 11:09:07 AM EST
    ED!  Welcome back, mister.  I'm surviving.  How was the Windy City?  Did you manage to stay out of trouble?

    Parent
    See, it has been so long... (none / 0) (#65)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 11:12:29 AM EST
    ...I forgot to call you by your kdog coined nickname!  Sorry about that Easy D...

    Parent
    Staying out of trouble? Nope! (none / 0) (#67)
    by easilydistracted on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 11:16:40 AM EST
    Thanks for the "welcome back." Five weeks in the Windy and four in Charleston, SC. I'm home for at least two weeks.

    Sorry for the off-topic BTD

    Parent

    Reread the excerpt posted (5.00 / 0) (#100)
    by Cream City on Sat Jul 11, 2009 at 11:15:25 AM EST
    as the relevance here.  You want to raise a different area, go ahead -- but I didn't, so your comment is . . . well, typical of you.

    Parent
    Laughable (1.00 / 0) (#101)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 11, 2009 at 11:46:26 AM EST
    But creative, have to give you that. It is a bit like a contortionist sneezing through her butt while sitting upside down in a pretzel shape at a formal dinner party.

    Glad to hear that what Palin actually said was just inartful.

    Parent

    A nonsequitor (5.00 / 0) (#13)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Jul 08, 2009 at 10:28:17 PM EST
    Necessary of course since you have no adequate response to my comment.

    You speak of halos when I speak of FACTS.

    But live your fantasies as you wish.

    My record of judging ACTIONS is well established. your bitterness has clearly gotten the better of your grasp of the facts.

    My comment (2.25 / 4) (#18)
    by kidneystones on Wed Jul 08, 2009 at 10:52:29 PM EST
    is directed at those who snipe at the powerless to avoid the greater challenge of calling those they helped elect to account.

    Palin is a lightning rod for cowards. I actually believe she received more venom proportional to her time in the limelight, than Clinton.

    Neither politician attaches a premium to the truth and for all your claims to fact the most you can muster is opinion and bloviation.

    But that, and accusations of bitterness and living in fantasy land, could be FACTS. Like if you squint your eyes a little, and tilt your head and maybe pour yourself just one more tiny shot.

    Ah! There it is right in my mirror: Fact!

    End of discussion!

    Parent

    Your attempted beatification (5.00 / 6) (#21)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Jul 08, 2009 at 11:03:14 PM EST
    of Palin is now complete.

    Sarah Palin was treated in both a sexist and unfair fashion. You, as she, dismiss the sexism.

    Like Palin, you see it only as an issue of unfairness to Palin.

    the obvious irony is you purport to critique the cult of Obama by forming a new cult of Palin.

    No thank you. I'll stick to the issues.

    Which in this case is, listen closely, sexism.

    Parent

    Sarah Palin was (3.00 / 2) (#22)
    by kidneystones on Wed Jul 08, 2009 at 11:26:24 PM EST
    I expect you mean HRC here.

    I stress that Palin is a liar and a hypocrite, but in BTD world that means I'm actually sanctifying her; or at least placing her on a pedestal.

    OK.

    You're pretty much off the rails.

    Pillow-time.

    Parent

    Sure (5.00 / 0) (#25)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Jul 08, 2009 at 11:44:39 PM EST
    Off you go. Do us a favor and do not come back. At least to my threads.

    Your type of ignorant anger I do not need.

    Parent

    What's a sane person to do? (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by pluege on Wed Jul 08, 2009 at 10:31:28 PM EST
    palin maintains her position front and center in the media by serially saying and doing outrageously stupid things. This spawns the conundrum of whether to respond to her lunacy or ignoring her. The problem with responding is that it amounts to being played - republicans/conservatives don't have rational conversations [ period. They spew anything to get reactions - content is meaningless.

    Ignoring them is the appropriate response to their manipulations, but doing so lets stand and implies legitimacy to some of the stupidest, most untrue linked fragments of word imaginable.

    What's a sane person to do?

    Stick to the issues (none / 0) (#15)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Jul 08, 2009 at 10:33:49 PM EST
    In this case, the issue is sexism.

    Parent
    She's right -- Hillary did not (5.00 / 8) (#17)
    by mg7505 on Wed Jul 08, 2009 at 10:38:34 PM EST
    go through what she is going through. Hillary went through far worse -- she had more accusers spitting more venom, from both sides of the aisle, on a national stage, with far greater consequence to her legacy and this country.

    Not to mention the allegations against her were far more baseless than those against Palin.

    Oh c'mon (5.00 / 5) (#24)
    by shoephone on Wed Jul 08, 2009 at 11:40:23 PM EST
    You mean you don't believe that Hillary killed Vince Foster, her long-time lover?

    <snark>

    Palin is not only young for politics, it seems she is too young to remember the actual barrage of hideousness launched at HRC on a daily basis.

    Parent

    Palin reminds me (5.00 / 4) (#41)
    by Fabian on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 08:39:56 AM EST
    of every sweet young thing who thinks that feminism is so yesterday and that women who complain of unfair treatment and harassment are whiners or bitter (or worse).

    Until it happens to them...

    Parent

    Except (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by squeaky on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 09:53:47 AM EST
    With Palin she has not addressed the sexism. Considering that it is part of her GOP platform, and that her slam of Hillary was essentially as sexist as Hannity and Colmes, it should come as no surprise.  Her dodge on the subject is that she is not whining like Hillary did, but taking a bullet to spare Alaska from unnecessary expense, the manly thing to do.

    lol.

    Parent

    Just spin. (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by Fabian on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 11:13:46 AM EST
    There is a serious level of irony that it is Palin is stepping down because the attacks on her are "bad for Alaska".

    It does make her seem more noble than Ted Stevens.  Of course, Stevens had very little to lose since his career was behind him.

    Parent

    Although (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by squeaky on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 11:19:14 AM EST
    Ted Stevens may have had the experience to realize that claiming to sacrifice one's carreer for the sake of the state economy, may seem noble for 15 minutes, but when the number crunchers assess the claim, all nobility goes up in smoke and more egg is on the face.


    Parent
    Doesn't Palin have any trusted advisor (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by oculus on Wed Jul 08, 2009 at 11:02:31 PM EST
    who till tell her to be quiet for the time being?

    Um (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by squeaky on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 12:12:43 AM EST
    She is not running on the Dem platform. Her popularity among GOPers is strong, and strong among some Hillary supporters here, evidentially.

    Sounds to me that she is getting good advice.

    Apparently Sarah Palin's decision to quit her post as Governor of Alaska wasn't as misguided as it sounded at first, because it has certainly already begun to work it's magic on winning over the Republican party. According to a new USA Today/Gallup Poll, her popularity has surged amongst Republicans since she made the announcement.
    71 percent of Republicans said they would vote for Palin if she ran for president in 2012, and three-fourths believe that Palin has been treated unfairly by the media.

    link

    Any guesses how the same group above would answer the question: Was Hillary treated unfairly by the media?


    Parent

    Wow (5.00 / 0) (#28)
    by Socraticsilence on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 02:09:44 AM EST
    she could get 70% of republicans and the massive PUMA uprising of '08 and possibly ride both to an Alf Landon style result against Obama.

    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#27)
    by TheRealFrank on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 02:02:42 AM EST
    Like I said a few days ago: her actions are not the actions of someone who wants to be left alone, or someone who wants to get out of the spotlight because of her family, etc.

    She is an ambitious politician who will keep seeking the spotlight, and will no doubt try for a run in 2012.


    Parent

    See I think this is true (5.00 / 0) (#29)
    by Socraticsilence on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 02:12:19 AM EST
    but I can't see her winning the primaries in any open registration state, or in any state with a Moderate GOP core- such as New Hampshire- I mean she basically added "quitter" to the CV that included "one of the only VP canidates to actively hurt the ticket".

    Parent
    Proof positive: she is Twittering. (none / 0) (#51)
    by oculus on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 10:17:45 AM EST


    Parent
    Advisor? (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by cal1942 on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 02:49:07 AM EST
    She may very well be advised to do as she's doing.

    We're talking about the Republican Party here.

    Parent

    I can't help but to like Palin (5.00 / 0) (#30)
    by mexboy on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 02:40:02 AM EST
    But she's full of sh**t on this one. She does not even come close to the sexist, false, and vile attacks against Hillary Clinton.

    Palin served a good purpose (5.00 / 2) (#43)
    by Cream City on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 09:20:34 AM EST
    as the crap against her showed, quite well, that many of those who claimed that their attacks on Clinton were because she was "that woman" were shown to be freeked by any woman in power.  

    For that, I will always be glad that Palin ran -- plus that other attacks against her also showed the regional snobbery of so many in power and media as well as in the larger public.  

    Parent

    Yes, but (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by jbindc on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 09:46:36 AM EST
    the coastal bias still exists in our media and in the blogging world - even in people you talk to on a daily basis.

    I was at a party on the 4th of July, and being in DC, the conversation naturally turned to politics.  All the people at the party are "liberals" (at least they think they are), and I was amazed at the off-hand, random comments/jokes made about things / people Southern and Midwestern (and yes, Alaskan, of course).  As nice and as pleasant as these people were to talk to, I just looked at them with amazement because the famous easst coast snobbery just came oozing out.

    As long as the major media outlets are all based out of NY and all high-profile reporters and anchors are from the "right" schools, this attitude will sadly continue.

    Parent

    Yep. Similar experiences (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by Cream City on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 10:13:45 AM EST
    here with Easterners -- including those who have lived in the Midwest for decades, still refuse to subscribe to a local paper, but are quite the know- it-alls about local politics and more.:-)

    They're just sad people.

    Parent

    I agree with most of that (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by CST on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 09:58:35 AM EST
    But the regional "snobbery" was definitely a two way street.  Yes, I'm still mad about the "real America" meme too.

    Parent
    I agree that's regionality (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by Cream City on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 10:14:50 AM EST
    but not really snobbery, in the same sense as what we see from Easterners.  It's all provinciality, though, and really works against this country.

    Parent
    to be honest (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by CST on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 10:20:34 AM EST
    I think it's racism.  But that's just me.

    Parent
    Can't agree that it's racism (5.00 / 0) (#90)
    by Cream City on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 04:28:35 PM EST
    since it's so often white Easterners re white others -- unless you mean reverse racism, i.e., the "clinging to their God and guns" comment?

    Parent
    No (5.00 / 2) (#92)
    by CST on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 04:36:04 PM EST
    I'm talking the "real America" comments made by people like Michelle Bachman, and Palin, and McCain.

    You know, the America that only exists outside of the cities, and the coasts.

    I am just pointing out that regional discrimination is a two-way street.  The bias shown by the upper class liberals on the east-coast and west-coast is clasism.  The "real America" bias strikes me as racism.  Since it was generally used to refer to the lily white parts of the country.

    Parent

    You're speaking of the MIdwest (none / 0) (#99)
    by Cream City on Sat Jul 11, 2009 at 11:13:20 AM EST
    which is hardly lily-white.  You may recall that Obama comes from a toddlin' town there that was the top target of the Great Migration. . . .  So I still don't see how it can be called racism.

    Parent
    Not the midwest (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by CST on Mon Jul 13, 2009 at 03:46:28 PM EST
    I wasn't referring to that specific region.  I don't think Chicago (or any major city) was ever touted as part of "real America", which is kind of my point.

    Parent
    I don't think I could (5.00 / 0) (#56)
    by CoralGables on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 10:31:10 AM EST
    disagree more.

    Palin's lack of grasp on issues and her recent actions have shown she wasn't up to the job as either VP or Governor. But even worse, her whining and complaining have clarified in the minds of the misogynists that they were right all along.

    No, Palin was not beneficial to women in the long run. What she has done by her histrionics is probably forge into some minds that women aren't strong enough to do the job.  

    Sometimes coming to the defense of a candidate that has been wronged is the right thing to do whether the candidate is male or female. In Palin's case, those that rush to her defense that aren't ultra conservative Republicans might want to take a peek into the mirror to see if they may be suffering from a bout of misandry that overrides common sense.

    In closing, it's my firm belief that anytime people use Palin and Hillary in the same sentence, hinting anything about them is comparable, is a horrible slam at Hillary.

    Parent

    Well (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by lilburro on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 03:11:49 AM EST
    that should just about kill off any Dems for Palin/PUMAs of the future, no?

    "Me, me me me me me."  Whoever's mouth it may come from, that's all your voting for with Republicans.

    mymy (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by mymy on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 07:03:20 AM EST
    Yes the pres was ugly to Hillary also,but I believe Palin is most upset with the treatment of her children.I don't remember a "respected"member of the press questioning whether Hillary was Chelseas mother

    Andrew Sullivan is the ONLY (5.00 / 2) (#36)
    by lilybart on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 07:35:00 AM EST
    member of the press that asked questions about Palin's crazy birth story.

    Parent
    Oh, lordy... (5.00 / 0) (#96)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 10:59:52 PM EST
    Back in the day (Clinton White House) there were far-right nutters calling for the assassination of Bill, Hillary, and Chelsea Clinton. Even though Chelsea was a child at the time, the 'reasoning' was that she was still "a Clinton" and would someday become a fully realized, infinitely evil, politically influential person. Imo, one would be hard-pressed to find a more vilified family in modern American politics.

    Parent
    The Hillary Nutcracker Doll? (5.00 / 2) (#35)
    by lilybart on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 07:34:14 AM EST
    My boss has a doll that looks like Hillary in a pantsuit, that cracks nuts between her legs. So funny, right??

    Palin hasn't gotten 1/100th of the crap Hillary has taken over the years. She is ....I am out of words trying to describe this Wendy Whiner, grifter Gov.

    Mine back then did, too.... (none / 0) (#75)
    by Inspector Gadget on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 12:22:19 PM EST
    that boss was a woman. I don't work for her anymore.


    Parent
    mymy (5.00 / 3) (#38)
    by mymy on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 08:11:34 AM EST
    I'm not trying to start a fight. I usually don't pay attention to the rumors and ugliness coming out of the political mud slingers on either side.99% is false and life is too short.The Trigg stuff was floating in the net-world for a long time.There are photoshopped pictures of him.Huff post had to retract an article making fun of him.Palin herself is fair game 'but a baby?May be I'm hyper-sensitive because I'm a mother,but it broke my heart for the Palin family to watch this play out.

    Well, I agree with you, BUT.... (4.00 / 1) (#33)
    by Dr Molly on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 06:51:36 AM EST
    Unfortunately, I think there is some truth in Palin's original 'whining' remarks (much as I hate to say it). The thing is -- it really does not do any good for a woman (such as HRC) to push back against sexist critique, it often just makes things worse. Recall what happened to HRC when she objected to Shuster's remarks or objected to anything. She learned to STFU about it all, just like most women do in the workplace, on the blogs, and everywhere else.

    (None of which is any justification for Palin's BS.)

    If it were a racist attack (5.00 / 2) (#71)
    by DXP on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 11:50:35 AM EST
    Then push back would be applauded. But with a sexist attack the woman is to not "whine" and is to remain passive to it, - to 'rise above it'. Yes, this is institutionalized sexism and to confront it might take several different approaches at once.

    Parent
    Too true... (5.00 / 0) (#97)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 11:17:10 PM EST
    Look at what happened when the Clinton campaign raised concerns about sexism and the Obama campaign raised concerns about racism.

    The former was written off as politically-motivated histrionics, while the latter was pretty much regarded as unimpeachable truth - especially in much of the MSM and the blogosphere.

    Parent

    What Hillary went through was just shameful (2.80 / 5) (#23)
    by thereyougo on Wed Jul 08, 2009 at 11:30:45 PM EST
    Hillary is the consumate professional and a nice person, at least publically and knows how to use the media not always to her advantage but she moved on. She was able to put her differences and the gawd-awful manner which Obama folks dragged her through the mud. But, she's left standing.

    Hillary's position as Secretary of State is a covetted position, so she left with her integrity intact. Good for her.

    Sarah Palin wilts at the hint of criticism, a shrinking violet who wants to strut her heels on national stage and holds pressers  wearing goloshes while fishing.  She is aptly named Wasilla hillbilly and what she should do but will not, is STFU and maybe the media storm will subside. She seems to be imploding under her self inflicted bombs.

    Please Sarah go and take care of little Trigg. Being a special needs child, he requires a full time mom not a drama queen.

    She is not politically astute. If she were,she would have used little Trigg as the excuse she was stepping down as governor and nobody could dare demonize her and faux news would hold her up  next to Mother Teresa.Oh well, another missed opportunity from the woman from Wasilla, why am I  not surprised?


    Wow. (5.00 / 4) (#42)
    by Fabian on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 08:44:03 AM EST
    That hit the sexist & classist memes.
    "Wasilla hillbilly"
    "mom"
    "drama queen"
    "strut her heels"

    Parent
    I wish Palin (none / 0) (#54)
    by lilburro on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 10:22:36 AM EST
    would honestly discuss some of the myriad ways she was attacked in the campaign.  Some of the sexual stuff for example was way over the top.  If she is truly retiring from politics it would be great to hear from her on these issues.  What does she have to lose?  We all stand to gain.

    But unfortunately, it seems that she is incapable or unwilling for whatever reason to have a serious discussion about that.

    No way! (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by Fabian on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 11:16:51 AM EST
    The media and the GOP need the ability to be sexist and classist.  How would they win elections without those time honored smears?

    /snark

    Parent

    Democrats are no better! (5.00 / 2) (#73)
    by ghost2 on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 11:59:15 AM EST
    That the Democrats are no novices when it comes to sexism and elitism, and are good at spreading and using those smears.  Or was that the point of your snark?

    Parent
    What does she have to lose? (5.00 / 4) (#70)
    by Dr Molly on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 11:38:22 AM EST
    What does she have to lose?

    Actually, I think one of the primary lessons of the primary is that women who are the subject of sexism have very much to lose when they discuss it, object to it, even hint at it. We saw all of that play out in the societal microcosm of the liberal blogs from the roving attacks of the sexism-deniers.

    It is a common trap for women, in or out of politics. Try being an advocate against sexism in the workplace, for example, and see what that gets you.

    Parent

    Ironically, (5.00 / 2) (#72)
    by ghost2 on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 11:57:09 AM EST
    We get back to what started this whole post in the first place.  Women who complain about sexism are accused of 'whining'.  Not to mention: ambitious, shrew, b*?ch, and 'she deserved what she got because she paraded her children.'

    I will defend Palin till I am blue in the face, because 95% (and more) of what Palin has gone through has been due to sexism, elitism, smears, and mud slinging.  

    Parent

    Are you sure about that? (5.00 / 2) (#77)
    by Inspector Gadget on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 12:45:51 PM EST
    Except Palin doesn't see her attacks (none / 0) (#74)
    by Dark Avenger on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 12:18:27 PM EST

    as having a sexist basis, so you're defending her from something she doesn't acknowledge exists in the first place.

    Perhaps she does see the sexism, but has realized that pointing it out ends up in the attacks being shifted to "poor whining women", thus prolonging and justifying ongoing criticisms of women. Maybe read her comment about Hillary with a more open mind and see if that might actually be what she is saying.

    Parent

    GOP View? (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by squeaky on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 04:27:08 PM EST
    Seems like Clarence Thomas has a similar view about racism. Shut up and stop whining. In a way that approach would make sense, by eliminating stereotypes and looking at power dynamic on an individual level without regard to gender, race, religion, etc. a clear picture of power and exploitation can emerge.

    Too bad neither Thomas nor Palin are willing to talk about oppression, from that or any point of view. It is the GOP way.

    Parent

    Absolutely. It's a lose-lose situation (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by Cream City on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 04:37:07 PM EST
    as Dr. Molly says.  Seen it too many times.

    Seeing it again now in some discussions of Palin "using" her family as one of her reasons for deciding to not put her family through more.

    Of course, when men in politics say they are deciding in favor of their families, they're SNAGs -- sensitive new-age guys.  The ones who are praised for doing their part in "babysitting" . . . their own children.  That's just one of the howlers so often heard in our sorry society.  For others, read above and below.:-)

    Parent

    Well (none / 0) (#76)
    by lilburro on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 12:25:34 PM EST
    she is a public figure.  She won't acknowledge sexism, but she obviously has a platform to discuss it and think about it if she chooses.  

    She is in a unique position but she would prefer to talk mostly about herself and Joe Sixpack.

    Parent

    True (5.00 / 3) (#78)
    by Dr Molly on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 12:50:39 PM EST
    And this reminds me of the calls for Hillary to gave a national speech on sexism the way Barack did on racism. But we all know what that would have engendered (sorry for the pun).

    Coincidentally, I just got out of a seminar where a candidate for a job discussed her research into, and her efforts on, making academic departments more gender-friendly and changing the entrenched culture of sexism in academia. My male colleagues' questions were all rooted in shock that this could currently still exist and open hostility that it was being brought up at all.

    Parent

    Which tells you what? (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 02:59:35 PM EST


    Parent
    I don't know. (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by Dr Molly on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 03:54:32 PM EST
    That I'm grateful for men like you who talk about it?

    That most men don't get it?


    Parent

    I get (5.00 / 2) (#86)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 03:59:57 PM EST
    that we need to keep talking about it and not let those sexism deniers keep us quiet.

    Parent
    Exactamente. (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by Dr Molly on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 04:07:10 PM EST
    I tend to get discouraged. You're a good role model. Carry on.

    Parent
    Ah, Dr. M., I've been in meetings like that (5.00 / 2) (#91)
    by Cream City on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 04:32:23 PM EST
    and so well recall the men who took over the meeting to complain about their current plight, poor things, compared to the days when no one brought up gender.  Because all were men then.

    I am not kidding.  I wish I had taped it.  

    Parent

    Well, there's the rub... (none / 0) (#98)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 11:39:28 PM EST
    My male colleagues' questions were all rooted in shock that this (sexism) could currently still exist and open hostility that it was being brought up at all.

    In academia, I've seen the same response to sexism, homophobia, racism, and a host of other related issues.

    Parent

    Would you give her any credit (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by Inspector Gadget on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 12:54:08 PM EST
    if she did talk about sexism, or acknowledge its existence? Be honest.

    I get the distinct impression she is hoping to eradicate sexism by trying to prove women are equally capable of leadership roles in society. She wants to emphasize the strengths in hopes the stereotype changes. It's probably naive of her, but she's willing to give it time to prove itself.

    I'm hoping someone gets the sexism to stop, and willing to give any effort a chance.


    Parent

    Need Sobering Up? (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by squeaky on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 01:36:08 PM EST
    Here you go:

    In this strange new pro-woman tableau, feminism -- a word that is being used all over the country with regard to Palin's potential power -- means voting for someone who would limit reproductive control, access to healthcare and funding for places like Covenant House Alaska, an organization that helps unwed teen mothers. It means cheering someone who allowed women to be charged for their rape kits while she was mayor of Wasilla, who supports the teaching of creationism alongside evolution, who has inquired locally about the possibility of using her position to ban children's books from the public library, who does not support the teaching of sex education.

    In this "Handmaid's Tale"-inflected universe, in which femininity is worshipped but females will be denied rights, CNBC pundit Donny Deutsch tells us that we're witnessing "a new creation ... of the feminist ideal," the feminism being so ideal because instead of being voiced by hairy old bats with unattractive ideas about intellect and economy and politics and power, it's now embodied by a woman who, according to Deutsch, does what Hillary Clinton did not: "put a skirt on." "I want her watching my kids," says Deutsch. "I want her laying next to me in bed."




    Parent
    "...want her laying next to me..." (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by daring grace on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 08:10:59 PM EST
    Reminds me of the old Lenny Bruce bit about racism:

    "You are a white. The Imperial Wizard. Now, if you don't think this is logic you can burn me on the fiery cross. This is the logic: You have the choice of spending fifteen years married to a woman, a black woman or a white woman. Fifteen years kissing and hugging and sleeping real close on hot nights. With a black, black woman or a white, white woman. The white woman is Kate Smith. And the black woman is Lena Horne. So you're not concerned with black or white anymore, are you? You are concerned with how cute or how pretty. Then let's really get basic and persecute ugly people!"
    -- Lenny Bruce

    Which, of course, we do...

    Not to mention if my support or admiration for a male politician ever had to be predicated on wanting to have him "laying next to me in bed"...Whew! Rough thought!

    Parent

    lol (1.00 / 4) (#83)
    by squeaky on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 02:45:03 PM EST
    Love the troll rating, jbindc. Really I do, from you. I feel the love..

    Drunk on Palin. Must be a nice buzz... I wouldn't be surprised to find out that you share the same fantasy as Donny Deutsch...  

    Parent

    Sure I would give her credit. (5.00 / 2) (#82)
    by lilburro on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 02:34:14 PM EST
    The idea that all you need to do is do a "man's job" to prove that women are equal to men does not hold up though.  You NEED to have a dialogue on discrimination regardless of the level you are performing at.  What Melissa McEwan posted today is a perfect example of that - two female firefighters in Houston who have suffered extreme and prolonged harassment - by other male firefighters they work with.  Those two women can absolutely do the job.  But that apparently didn't prove anything to some of the men around them.

    The interesting thing about the Hillary example is that she herself did not comment extensively throughout the campaign.  Hillary did not give a sexism speech and she turned down an opportunity to discuss sexism with the NYT (I need to go find a citation for that - I just read it and lost it!).  But she didn't deny sexism existed, that the media ignored it, etc.  Her comments from a May interview:

    Q. Isn't that how it's always been though.

    A. Oppression of women and discrimination against women is universal. You can go to places in the world where there are no racial distinctions except everyone is joined together in their oppression of women. The treatment of women is the single biggest problem we have politically and socially in the world. If you look at the extremism and the fundamentalism, it is all about controlling women, at it's base. The idea that we would have a presidential campaign in which so much of what has occurred that has been very sexist would be just shrugged off I think is a very unfortunate commentary about the lack of seriousness that should be applied to any kind of discrimination or prejudice. I have spent my entire life trying to stand up for civil rights and women's rights and human rights and I abhor wherever it is discrimination is present.

    And Palin is one of the "shruggers off."  

    Parent

    Weakly Standard (none / 0) (#79)
    by squeaky on Thu Jul 09, 2009 at 12:53:41 PM EST
    Editor's Note: Matthew Continetti is the associate editor of The Weekly Standard. His book "The Persecution of Sarah Palin" is slated for publication by Penguin Sentinel in the spring of 2010

    From CNN a taste of where this is going:

    Commentary: We'll be hearing from Palin for a long time

    By Matthew Continetti
    Special to CNN

    Sexism is not mentioned, btw. Guess that would be whining.


    Palin: Hillary Did Not Go Through What I Am Going Through | 100 comments (100 topical)

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