home

Wednesday Morning Open Thread

From the money changes everything file:

$500K prize divides 2 elderly sisters in Conn.

HARTFORD, Conn. – A passion for gambling shared by two once-inseparable octogenarian sisters has ended up dividing them, with the Connecticut Supreme Court ruling that one can sue the other for a share of a winning $500,000 lottery ticket. The court said 83-year-old Theresa Sokaitis, of Middletown, can try to enforce a written contract she signed with her 87-year-old sister, Rose Bakaysa, of Plainville, agreeing to split any gambling winnings.

Sokaitis says she is due a share of a $500,000 Powerball jackpot won by Bakaysa and their brother, Joseph F. Troy Sr., in 2005. "We had an accountant, we had a contract and we had a notary public," Sokaitis said. "We signed the contract together and we agreed to split anything. And when it came time, they didn't even tell me; I saw it in the paper."

. . . Sokaitis said she doesn't want to drag her sister into court but believes she and her family are due a share of the money. "I miss her so much, and I love her, and I don't like what's taken place," Sokaitis said. "But all I want is what is rightfully mine. All I want is my share, nothing more."

This is an Open Thread.

< Jaw Dropping Stupid? Or Just Pretending? | CNN's Klein: Radio Talk Show Hosts' Rhetoric "All Too Predictable" >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


  • Display: Sort:
    I don't usually agree with Camille Paglia (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by jbindc on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 08:43:10 AM EST
    She's usually a bit out there for my tastes, but she pulls no punches on anybody or anything in this article:

    With the Republican party leaderless and in backbiting disarray following its destruction by the ideologically incoherent George W. Bush, Democrats are apparently eager to join the hara-kiri brigade. What looked like smooth coasting to the 2010 election has now become a nail-biter. Both major parties have become a rats' nest of hypocrisy and incompetence. That, combined with our stratospheric, near-criminal indebtedness to China (which could destroy the dollar overnight), should raise signal flags. Are we like late Rome, infatuated with past glories, ruled by a complacent, greedy elite, and hopelessly powerless to respond to changing conditions?

    What does either party stand for these days? Republican politicians, with their endless scandals, are hardly exemplars of traditional moral values. Nor have they generated new ideas for healthcare, except for medical savings accounts, which would be pathetically inadequate in a major crisis for anyone earning at or below a median income.

    And what do Democrats stand for, if they are so ready to defame concerned citizens as the "mob" -- a word betraying a Marie Antoinette delusion of superiority to ordinary mortals. I thought my party was populist, attentive to the needs and wishes of those outside the power structure. And as a product of the 1960s, I thought the Democratic party was passionately committed to freedom of thought and speech.



    Camille who? ;-) (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by andgarden on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 08:44:00 AM EST
    Become? (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 08:48:05 AM EST
    Silly column.

    Parent
    Fair point (none / 0) (#9)
    by jbindc on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 09:05:25 AM EST
    as to the "Become", but I thought a lot of her points were valid.

    Parent
    realality check for pols (none / 0) (#38)
    by ftwrfbb on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 10:07:00 AM EST
    Each policy maker in washington and state government should spend one year in the military service and one year working in a veterans hospital. Then some common sense might prevail. Granted many others should also join them, you know them.

    Parent
    Or (5.00 / 2) (#42)
    by jbindc on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 10:22:34 AM EST
    Work at a minimum wage job with no insurance benefits and try to support a family.

    Parent
    That greed will get ya boy.... (5.00 / 0) (#6)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 08:54:28 AM EST
    they'll probably all be dead before the courts sort it out, never getting to enjoy the big score!

    And what kind of siblings need a contract?  I have a handshake deal with my landlady, never mind family.

    They don't call it a deadly sin for nothing:)

    Here's an equally interesting one: (5.00 / 3) (#32)
    by scribe on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 09:51:14 AM EST
    Elderly businessman dies, aged 90 plus.  He went from penniless charcoal industry child laborer growing up in Formosa to build a business empire which put him in the Forbes 200.  (He followed the advice in The Graduate:  "plastics".)

    Along the way he fathers nine kids with a number of different women.

    He dies in New Jersey, leaving an estate spread across the world and worth literally tens, if not hundreds, of billions of dollars.

    He never made a will.

    This one is a career for all the attorneys involved.

    Parent

    Oh my deity. (none / 0) (#36)
    by Fabian on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 09:59:28 AM EST
    I wouldn't want to be anywhere near that mess unless I was getting paid for it.

    This is one of those cases where I'd like to lock everyone into a hotel and not let them out until they've signed a binding agreement.  Faster and cheaper than anything else is going to be and a lot less money squandered on lawyers and court costs.  

    (Speaking of deaths - the investigation into Michael Jackson's doctors and drugs continues.  I'm beginning to wonder how he lived as long as he did.)

    Parent

    Yeah... (none / 0) (#49)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 12:51:51 PM EST
    the kids probably have attorneys chasing them down the street.

    That gold fever is more dangerous than swine flu.

    Parent

    I love learning new words (5.00 / 0) (#51)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 02:45:31 PM EST
    just learned this one:

    Bindle (from German das Bündel = bundle, bale) is a term used to describe the bag, sack, or carrying device stereotypically used by the (commonly American) sub-culture of hobos.

    re (none / 0) (#52)
    by Bemused on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 02:55:14 PM EST
      I've heard the word--- but always used to describe packaging for coke or heroin made from folding a small piece of paper so it's like an envelope. Likely the same derivation.

    Parent
    that was the second listing (none / 0) (#60)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 05:05:45 PM EST
    The word bindle is also a street term that can be used to describe a small paper packet of drugs that varies in weight under one gram.


    Parent
    getting a playmate (5.00 / 3) (#57)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 04:34:29 PM EST
    for Ghost I think.  just found out the Humane Society has a Siberian Husky.  going over after work.


    Cool!!! (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by nycstray on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 04:35:52 PM EST
    Hope it works out!

    Parent
    I hope this works (none / 0) (#62)
    by MO Blue on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 05:27:22 PM EST
    Look at the face on this puppy. Link

    You just want to find something, anything, to make him happy.

    Good luck on your new dog.

    Parent

    Seems fair to me (none / 0) (#2)
    by andgarden on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 08:43:32 AM EST
    I guarantee that some version of this dispute is going to end up on a contracts exam.

    Hard to argue (none / 0) (#5)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 08:48:47 AM EST
    gambling "contracts" are illegal when you have state sanctioned casinos.

    Parent
    The lottery is legal (none / 0) (#7)
    by Steve M on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 08:58:57 AM EST
    Pretty sure courts have always enforced these lottery-splitting agreements.

    Parent
    You can imagine variations, though (none / 0) (#10)
    by andgarden on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 09:06:11 AM EST
    Suppose someone bought the wrong ticket, or from a different lottery, or one of them is legally prohibited from gambling (in jail, for example).

    Parent
    We'd need to see the actual contract (none / 0) (#12)
    by Bemused on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 09:25:37 AM EST
      to determine what sis's rights are under it, but a contract to split winnings from a lottery iwould almost certainly be enforceable in broad terms.

      You are correct that the K might be written so that only the winnings bought with pooled contributions from the parties are subject to being split and that a party may not be required to split winnings from tickets bought outside the agreement.

      I could see where a K would require each party to put up a certain amount each week and call for the winnings from tickets bought from that to be ssplit. then if a person could show the winning ticket was not from that batch then the person would not be required to split the winnings. then you get into questions of fact as to whether the winning ticket was or was not purchased in the pooled batch.

       I could also wee a K which simply provided that all parties to the K agree to split any winnings with the other parties. I think that would be valid because you have mutual consideration (the promise to split from each party) even if one party bought many more tickets.

    Parent

    It always bugged me... (none / 0) (#13)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 09:27:04 AM EST
    that some ex-cons are forbidden from state-sanctioned gambling like the lotto.

    With the trouble ex-cons have getting work and getting ahead upon release, the sh*t odds of the lottery is one of the only chances they have at prosperity!  It's a less than getting struck by a bolt of lighning chance, but why take that away?

    Parent

    Is there any place ex-cons (none / 0) (#15)
    by Bemused on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 09:29:47 AM EST
      are prohibited from playing the lottery and receiving the winnings? I know in my state convicted felons cannot be licensed as lottery retailers but there is no law against them playing and winning.

    Parent
    In some states... (none / 0) (#23)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 09:38:09 AM EST
    it is a condition of probation, this guy had a problem...link.

    Gambling is an inalienable right as far as I'm concerned...though I guess when the state is playing bookie you're begging to get welched on.  Choose where you place your action wisely.

    Parent

    that's different (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by Bemused on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 09:53:59 AM EST
      Probation is an act of discretionary grace and many conditions can be imposed by a court which are restrictive of freedoms enjoyed by others. Sometimes people are forbidden from obtaining credit cards or lines of credit, etc and put on all sorts of restrictions.  

      That's different than a law forbidding felons from playing the lottery or having credit cards, etc.

       In your case, I'd argue that the fact his act of buying the ticket violates the term of his probation means only that the court may punish him for a probation violation but does not relieve the lottery of its obligation to pay him.

       A winning argument? I think it's a good one. A contract is not void because one party to it is incompetent. It may be voidable though by the incompetent. I'm not sure a probation term such as that would even make him "incompetent" to execute a contract forbidden by the terms of probation but even if it does I don't think it voiuds the lotterty's obligation to pay him.

      My opinion is the violation of probation is a matter between him and the court and not shield any third party can use to evade performance. i also think that's a very minot probation violation which warrants little in the way of punishment.

     

    Parent

    I hear ya... (none / 0) (#37)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 10:05:23 AM EST
    technically you can refuse the probation stipulations and go back in your cage for the duration of your draconian sentence.  But a head examination would be in order if you do that.

    This guy's mistake was not having somebody else cash the winner for him for a cut to avoid the legal hassle.

    Parent

    It's pretty clear (none / 0) (#27)
    by jbindc on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 09:41:59 AM EST
    Under terms of his probation, Elliott "may not gamble, purchase lottery tickets or visit an establishment where gaming is conducted, including restaurants where Keno may be played."


    Parent
    Very clear... (none / 0) (#31)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 09:50:34 AM EST
    I just think it is stupid.

    Parent
    The opportunity (none / 0) (#16)
    by Fabian on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 09:31:27 AM EST
    to all-but-throw your money away?

    Can they bet on the races?  You have much better odds there and you can crunch the numbers to improve your odds.  

    Parent

    Yep... (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 09:45:18 AM EST
    the opportunity to all but throw away your money.

    My old man was a lotto junkie, I ragged on him constantly..."You're breaking every gambling rule you taught me pops, lotto is for suckers."

    He'd say "I know son, but at my age, its the only shot I got at the really big score."

    You are better off playing any other game...but no other game offers several million to one payouts on a buck.  

    Parent

    This blog... (none / 0) (#11)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 09:23:46 AM EST
    has let me do nothing but dissent and rag on crooked Dems for 6 years.

    And I agree 100%, where it matters most, these two parties are undistinguishable from each other.  We vote over wedge issue bones every 2 years and thats it.

    You bring intellectual integrity (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 06:05:44 PM EST
    with you into your dissent, and some people don't :)

    Parent
    To be clear (none / 0) (#18)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 09:34:51 AM EST
    Wilco is not permitted in any of my threads, including my open threads.

    He is welcome in Jeralyn's threads and TChris threads, though Jeralyn has said he is "on probation."

    I do not pretend to run a free speech zone in my threads.

    People like Wilco are not welcome to comment in my threads. If you want to think it is because I am "stifling dissent," go ahead. I do not care.

    Parent

    No worries man... (none / 0) (#33)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 09:53:16 AM EST
    It's your party...I'll cease replies to him on your threads.

    Parent
    ? for all you lawyers out here (none / 0) (#14)
    by vml68 on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 09:27:47 AM EST
    Is a reference to the Obama girls considered crossing the line?
    Obama's daughters mentioned in ad.

    It's edgy (none / 0) (#21)
    by Fabian on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 09:36:02 AM EST
    but I'm not sure it crosses the line.  It has a "It's for a good cause." cachet and it doesn't appear to be used for fund raising.

    Technically, it may have crossed the line.  It's certainly going to attract attention - which may have been the intention.

    Parent

    Something needs to put a focus on (5.00 / 2) (#50)
    by Inspector Gadget on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 02:41:33 PM EST
    the miserable school lunch programs in public schools. The menu in one of the more affluent districts in my area (the schools Bill Gates' kids would have attended had they gone to a public school) deliver the lunches from a central packing location...in styrofoam. The meals are pretty much anything that can be made from powdered cheese and starch. Corn dogs, nachos, tacos, burgers, chili, lots of starchy peas and carrots. And, they charge plenty for those lunches.

    If pointing out the dramatic differences between private and public school lunches works to improve the missing nutritional value in the public school lunch programs, I think our President should be proud to have helped.

    Parent

    Unfortunately (5.00 / 2) (#53)
    by Steve M on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 03:05:58 PM EST
    while this ad may lead people to believe that it's about the nutritional value of public school lunches, what it's really about is the failure of some public school systems to offer a vegetarian option.  I have nothing against vegetarians but the dishonest billing makes me unsympathetic to their cause in this case.

    Parent
    I agree. (5.00 / 0) (#55)
    by Fabian on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 03:40:41 PM EST
    It is misleading.

    School lunches stink and adding a veg option to them may not make them stink any less.  Our schools offer a veg option which is slightly better than the regular protein offering which is frequently breaded and fried.

    There is a new nutritional labeling (NuVal) which weighs the nutrition offered against the things that are bad for you - excessive salt, sugar, hydrogenated oils and so on.  I'd bet that school lunches would score pretty low.

    Parent

    It is misleading in a way, but (none / 0) (#56)
    by nycstray on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 04:22:02 PM EST
    how healthy is lunch without fresh veggies or veggie options day in day out? And then there's the definition of what is "healthy" that can go up for discussion. For vegetarians, having food they can eat . . . . for others, it would be the content/ingredients in the dish.

    the take away that you mention (nutritional value) is pretty big, on raising awareness. And there's a lot of truth in the ad from that angle. I'd like to see all Congress kids parents called out in their districts with this type of ad {grin}

    Check this:


    The Web site TMZ acquired the menu from the week the girls started school in January. Lunch options included: organic spinach salad, local pumpkin and sage soup, garden vegetable pie, Bell & Evans roasted chicken tenderloins and fresh organic strawberries.

    "President Obama's daughters can choose a vegetarian meal every day and are likely to stay slim and healthy," notes Barnard in a press release. "At most other schools, children have few choices other than meaty, cheesy fare."

    Link

    Parent

    Hey BTD (none / 0) (#17)
    by lilburro on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 09:32:27 AM EST
    do you have any comment on Scott Horton's account of Obama's "First" Rendition?  

    Have not read it yet. (none / 0) (#19)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 09:35:12 AM EST
    you mean a legal line? (none / 0) (#20)
    by Bemused on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 09:35:22 AM EST
      I can't see how an ad posing a rhetorical question using a real person or persons as a comparison would be actionable in any way. It's not defamatory; it's not disclosing information made private or confidential by statute or common law and it certainly isn't false light invasion of privacy to discuss someone's lunch unless maybe you declare the person is a cannibal or something perverted.

      Bad form? Maybe to some but certainly not a civil wrong.

       

    Would they be considered (none / 0) (#25)
    by jbindc on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 09:40:47 AM EST
    "public figures"?

    Parent
    I don't think it matters (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by Bemused on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 09:56:42 AM EST
     even if they are not public figures what's actionable about the suggestion they eat healthy lunches at school?

    Parent
    Thanks for the input. (none / 0) (#40)
    by vml68 on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 10:14:20 AM EST
    I linked to the ABC article by mistake, meant to link to the Washington Post one.

    Initially, "what they said was that they wanted me to remove [the posters] voluntarily, but made it clear that they viewed this as something that could lead to legal action if I wasn't responsive. But that was an implication. If this story comes out as Obama versus Us, I don't want that story," says Barnard, whose organization contacted The Washington Post on Monday about the dispute.
    The bolding is mine.

    This paragraph made me curious about the legal aspects.

    Parent

    Well, his saying a threat of legal action (none / 0) (#41)
    by Bemused on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 10:20:39 AM EST
      was made doesn't change my opinion in any way. I'm sure the WH will deny it and it might even be telling the truth. Even if it did threaten him with legal action it would hardly be the first time either somneone bluffed in that fashion despite no meritorious legal grounds or that a politician's handlers used stupidly heavy handed means to stifle something.

    Parent
    Thanks. That's what I wanted to know. (none / 0) (#43)
    by vml68 on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 10:27:37 AM EST
    If it was a bluff/empty threat or if the ad was indeed crossing some legal boundaries with regards to the girls.

    Parent
    i think it's a case (none / 0) (#46)
    by Bemused on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 10:40:47 AM EST
      of power going to someon'e head. someone out to please the boss by stopping something the boss doesn't like starts off throwing their weight around and bullying.

      It probably would have been much smarter on every level to simply speak to the guy and tell him the president shares your concern and would like to work with you to improve nutrition in schools, but he really doesn't like you referring to his kids because there are crazy folks out there.

    Parent

    Big tent has a pretty good argument (none / 0) (#39)
    by joze46 on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 10:10:02 AM EST
    Big tent has a pretty good argument

    That lottery stuff, gambling, dividing families, friends etc...for me it is relational to our big time problem in the current basic banking system. Especially showing the flaws in the unregulated derivative market. Agreements and deals challenged now within states vary extensively in many cases favor the rich or special interest. Were are the rights of the individual ?  

    My feelings are this "Derivative" market is similar and simply a gamble in contracts closely related to this lottery example. Worse in any free environment one has to accept the reality of profiteering and pirating is not only attractive but compelling lurking behind the corner with out having regulation.  

    And finding out the big time special interest losers simply belly up to the tax payer window in secret deals through the Treasury or the Federal Reserve will lead any culture to chaos. Leading to the same fragmentation in business, friendship, because of a wide variety in state and federal laws. Americans now see this in real time as if we are in Renaissance of change. We are in this Renaissance of change it just happens to have some audacity with it. Guess who wrote the book on the audacity of hope, for change? Of course Obama.

    Heck the same inconsistences are wide spread in the Health care insurance stuff. Imagine all the business concerns that fail state local laws. Or fail to serve local issues, local states "attorneys" that take no initiative to police this stuff. Why does it take the Federal law to get something done? Why is their a Federal Grand jury to make major contribution to ferrite out corruption. Why do we have lame convictions after years of court just to convict on perjury that has nothing to do with the issues? It is for media fuel, and reelection reasons for the politicians, all in a political fix.    

    Companies that sell life insurance and term insurance go back on their agreements.  Look at the huge huge disclaimers pasted on your television in small letters one can hardly read hundreds of tiny words that are insane to interpret in three seconds but commit to fulfill the local legal needs in the zoo distribution of sneaking out of a contract. Credit dot com commercials plastered all over the electromagnetic medium definitely know something about me, how did they get that information, tell your mom and your dad. Sheesh. Then day after day Tax masters shows you how to save thousands of dollars. Why can't I find that on my tax form...

    These cable media concerns know what they are doing. They try to sensitize and engineer something, as many here on this blog realize it is slowly exposing it self with the embedded corruption in the media, which is ugly.    


    Real American Heroes.... (none / 0) (#44)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 10:32:34 AM EST
    if ya need a break from the knuckleheads hogging all the airtime on the tube and in the news, here are some people on a self-proclaimed mission from God that I think we can all get down with.  The cool holy-rollers.

    State Sen. Farley's comment...

    Sen. Hugh Farley, R-Niskayuna, a business law professor, said the pot activists don't bother him, and he considers them "kind of funny."

    "They weren't obnoxious; they weren't in your face," he said. "Every time we came out of conference they tended to be there. I don't think they were taken seriously by anybody; I don't think their issue is taken seriously by anyone. In my judgment they were just trying to get attention."

    I take these kind souls a lot more seriously than I take you smart-guy...I'd think you were funny if you weren't so sad.

    Hostages in Iran (none / 0) (#45)
    by jbindc on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 10:34:37 AM EST
    from Politico

    ABC's Martha Raddatz, on "Good Morning America": "To make matters worse, ABC News has been told the three [American hikers] have now been moved to Iran's capital, which makes it even more likely they will be used as pawns."



    Not to be cold (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by Bemused on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 10:50:01 AM EST
      but I don't think there is any possibility Iran will torture or kill these folks and in the absence of that I don't feel compelled to make any concessions in exchange for their prompt return.

       If you're stupid enough to wander into Iran you assume certain risks. We should insist they are treated humanely and that personnel from our embassy have access to them but if Iran wants to prosecute them for illegal entry in accordance with the laws of Iran that's its right as a sovereign nation.

    Parent

    Robert's Activist Court (none / 0) (#48)
    by squeaky on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 12:21:03 PM EST
    McKinley, who outspent Bryan by an estimated 10 to 1, won handily, proving Hanna's famous dictum: "There are two things that are important in politics. The first is money, and I can't remember what the second one is."

    [snip]

    In 1907, Congress passed the Tillman Act, the first federal law barring corporate campaign contributions. States adopted similar laws.

    Since then, Congress has repeatedly ratified the federal ban.

    [snip]

    But the Supreme Court has decided to force the question: It took a case, Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission, in which the ban on corporate contributions was not a central issue; told the parties to prepare legal briefs on the ban's constitutionality; and rushed to put oral arguments on the calendar in September before the new term even starts.

    The court's conservative majority has been aggressively championing the rights of corporations, but overturning the contributions ban would take it to a new level. Corporations have enormous treasuries, and there are a lot of things they want from government, many of which clash with the public interest.

    via bmaz (emptywheel)


    Officials see rise in... (none / 0) (#54)
    by desertswine on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 03:40:04 PM EST
    militia groups accross US.

    The stress of a poor economy and a liberal administration led by a black president are among the causes for the recent rise, the report from the Southern Poverty Law Center says. Conspiracy theories about a secret Mexican plan to reclaim the Southwest are also growing amid the public debate about illegal immigration.

    Starting to get more than just a little scary.

    Yeah (5.00 / 0) (#59)
    by squeaky on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 04:38:09 PM EST
    Sara Robinson, who has long studied fascism, and written extensively about racism, white supremecy in the US, is raising a flag that we are entering into a dangerous period which if not stopped will spiral into fascism in the US.

    Really worth a read.

    This is the sign we were waiting for -- the one that tells us that yes, kids: we are there now. America's conservative elites have openly thrown in with the country's legions of discontented far right thugs. They have explicitly deputized them and empowered them to act as their enforcement arm on America's streets, sanctioning the physical harassment and intimidation of workers, liberals, and public officials who won't do their political or economic bidding.

    This is the catalyzing moment at which honest-to-Hitler fascism begins. It's also our very last chance to stop it.



    Parent
    I can't find much on her (none / 0) (#61)
    by Inspector Gadget on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 05:19:31 PM EST
    Go Read (none / 0) (#63)
    by squeaky on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 05:36:30 PM EST
    Also David Neiwert, who hosts the blog Orincus, is well worth reading. Both of them have written about racism and white supremecism, and fascism all from a US historical perspective.

    Lots of stuff at Orincus to read.  

    Parent

    I found Orcinus for the first time (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by Inspector Gadget on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 06:00:59 PM EST
    last week.

    The lines are blurring, though, squeaky. The disruptors of the democratic process aren't only on the Right. These townhalls don't frighten me nearly as much as the caucus shout downs, the absence of a legitimate vote from the floor at the D convention, and the non-stop threats that took place during the primaries....from supporters for both front-runners have unnerved my faith in this country remaining a democracy.

    Protests to policy and war have always been around during my lifetime. But, the disruption of the democratic process was pretty new this last election.


    Parent

    I think we've always had these sort of problems (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 06:09:58 PM EST
    in our nominating system.  I don't think I noticed it before though because it wasn't my watch until this go around and because the race was so close the B.S. rose obviously to the surface :)

    Parent
    I've watched every single Democratic (5.00 / 3) (#68)
    by Inspector Gadget on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 06:17:21 PM EST
    convention since before I was able to vote. Even watched some of the highlights of the Republican ones. Never has a convention stopped the floor vote when neither candidate had enough delegates to win the nomination. That floor vote is always completed and the delegates vote for the candidate they were committed to prior to arriving at the hall. The Rules Committee was another fatal stab in the heart of democracy.


    Parent
    Study your history a little more (5.00 / 0) (#69)
    by jondee on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 06:25:55 PM EST
    the gutter tactics during elections have been going on forever.

    What could be worse than the election year behind the scenes efforts to sabotage the Paris peace talks in '68 in order to avoid a Democratic October Suprise, which lead to another four more years of war?

    Sorry, but the martyrdom of the more honorable-than-honorable Mrs Clinton in the primaries dosnt
    compare.

    Parent

    Now, jondee (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by Inspector Gadget on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 06:44:35 PM EST
    how could you have said that so it wouldn't have come across with such mean-spirited attitude?

    I said those tactics as related to the normal flow of the party conventions frightened me, not that they were the only ones ever in history.

    Parent

    Sorry if I was mean-spirited (5.00 / 0) (#71)
    by jondee on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 06:56:44 PM EST
    but the degree of fixation at this site on the alleged uniqueness of the machinations connected with the most recent election passed the bounds of the reasonable several months ago, IMO.

    Parent
    I find the behavior of the party (5.00 / 2) (#72)
    by Inspector Gadget on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 07:02:06 PM EST
    to be quite separate from the candidates.

    Parent
    No Blurry Lines (none / 0) (#76)
    by squeaky on Thu Aug 13, 2009 at 11:31:45 AM EST
    That is propaganda, imo. The lines are clear. At worst the ultra right wingers are coopting willy nilly left in a fearmongering campaign.

    Other than the few who fall for the Hitler schtick, the lines are quite clear.

    Parent

    We better... (none / 0) (#73)
    by kdog on Thu Aug 13, 2009 at 08:53:57 AM EST
    get our milita going asap squeak...I still got dibs on the bow and arrows:)

    Parent
    Yeah (none / 0) (#74)
    by squeaky on Thu Aug 13, 2009 at 11:28:41 AM EST
    I am honing my martial arts skills..   Maybe we can buy one of these, and these, and a few of these would be good too. Also if we have any extra dough, a small battalion of these would be good too.

    Parent
    lol... (none / 0) (#75)
    by kdog on Thu Aug 13, 2009 at 11:31:36 AM EST
    remember I've got luddite tendencies, thats all too high-tech for me General Squeaky:)

    Parent
    Nah (none / 0) (#77)
    by squeaky on Thu Aug 13, 2009 at 11:32:58 AM EST
    One remote control, and we sit back and smoke a coupla doobies, until the smoke clears. Then we can go hand to hand... lol

    Parent
    "Spice" Soon to be Banned in UK (none / 0) (#64)
    by squeaky on Wed Aug 12, 2009 at 05:44:25 PM EST
    Had not heard of this one, but would like to give it a try before it is illegal here too.

    A legal blend of herbs sold as incense under the name "Spice" may soon be illegal in the United Kingdom, as it reportedly contains a designer variety of synthetic cannabinoids which creates an effect some users say is similar to a marijuana high.

    Raw Story