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Monday Morning Open Thread: "I Don't Like Mondays"

He can see no reasons
There can be no reasons
What reasons do you need to be shown

...I don't like Mondays,

I want to shoot the whole day down.

How's your Monday going? This is an open thread, all topics welcomes.

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      • "The pump don't work 'cause the vandals took the handles"
        © 1965 Bob Dylan

      If you enjoy meta on Mondays, be sure (5.00 / 2) (#40)
      by oculus on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:19:36 AM EST
      to read Bondad's GBCW diary at DK and the comments.  

      First time I've intentionally clicked (none / 0) (#70)
      by MO Blue on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:43:38 AM EST
      on DKos in over a year. Bondad put a lot of time and effort into the site. I can't believe how few user names I recognized.

      Really grateful for a site like TL where you can agree to disagree without the discussion turning nasty.

      Parent

      I'd say mostly re your last paragraph. (5.00 / 1) (#74)
      by oculus on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:46:37 AM EST
      Nothing on TL has ever descended to (5.00 / 2) (#86)
      by MO Blue on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 11:00:02 AM EST
      the level of DKos' form of pure hate filled attacks. The only exceptions I've seen have been from regulars on that site coming here to try the same tactics. Luckily they soon were dispatched back to their origins.

      Parent
      As I understand it (none / 0) (#94)
      by The Last Whimzy on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 11:16:35 AM EST
      If anything here did sink to that level it would be deleted.


      Parent
      Not always. (5.00 / 2) (#114)
      by oculus on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 12:07:16 PM EST
      I go there (5.00 / 1) (#87)
      by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 11:00:42 AM EST
      when I want to hear people complain and whine without ever pinpointing who is actually to blame!

      One example:  Hunter's "Power Dry" post.  Who is to blame for the insurance debacle?  Lieberman!  Who knew that he controls Obama.

      Yes, the gang of 6 also holds some responsibility, but of course the hands of the Powder Dryer in Chief are clean.

      Parent

      D-I-Y Question (5.00 / 1) (#48)
      by MileHi Hawkeye on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:28:44 AM EST
      So, I'm replacing the light fixture in my kitchen.  Taking out an old fluorescent one which was mounted to the concrete ceiling by two large bolts.

      Before I take a hammer to them, does anyone know of a way to remove the bolts without doing a lot of damage?  

      I thought about cutting them, but couldn't do that below the ceiling level so I could patch and paint.

      will they not (5.00 / 1) (#52)
      by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:31:16 AM EST
      unscrew?

      Parent
      Couldn't get them to... (none / 0) (#59)
      by MileHi Hawkeye on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:33:54 AM EST
      ...with the visegrips.  Unless there is some kind of bit I can use with the drill, I don't think they will unscrew.

      Parent
      somtimes (none / 0) (#60)
      by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:37:09 AM EST
      a bigger wrench, more leverage, will work.

      if they wont unscrew you are screwed and its probably hammer time. good luck

      Parent

      there are (none / 0) (#61)
      by CST on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:38:28 AM EST
      bits you can put onto the end of a drill.  Also, a regular ratchet may work better than vice grips just because of the added leverage.

      Parent
      Thanks guys. (none / 0) (#72)
      by MileHi Hawkeye on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:45:07 AM EST
      Just to be clear, I got the nuts off no problem--its the bolts I need to get out of the ceiling.  

      I think a visit to the helpful hardware guy is called for.

      Parent

      ah (5.00 / 1) (#75)
      by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:47:10 AM EST
      sorry
      I completely misunderstood the question.

      hacksaw time.  they are probably embedded if you cant access them from the other side.


      Parent

      Mile, what did you say in the first sentence, (5.00 / 2) (#76)
      by easilydistracted on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:47:31 AM EST
      before the hyphen?

      Parent
      You lost me, Easy D. (none / 0) (#88)
      by MileHi Hawkeye on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 11:01:41 AM EST
      But then, that's a pretty common occurance--especially on a Monday morning.  :)

      Parent
      Something caught my eye and (5.00 / 1) (#92)
      by easilydistracted on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 11:09:50 AM EST
      caused a chuckle. Its just my warped mind. Good luck with the project.

      Parent
      Ah! I get it now... (5.00 / 1) (#95)
      by MileHi Hawkeye on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 11:20:44 AM EST
      ...nuts, off.  If only it were as easy as that!

      Not quite awake yet.  It was a rough weekend to say the least.  Think I forgot my meds on Saturday morning and I'm still recovering.  At least I have the day off.  

      Parent

      Its all in fun, Dude. (none / 0) (#96)
      by easilydistracted on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 11:34:44 AM EST
      Enjoy your day off, and, be safe while you work on that electrical project.

      Parent
      Sadly, not much enjoyment... (none / 0) (#109)
      by MileHi Hawkeye on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 11:56:48 AM EST
      ...to be had.  Have a blood draw and a trip to the dentist in store for today.  At least it helps to be somewhat out of it for those two things!

      OTOH, playing with electricity gets my full attention.  Certainly adds an element of danger to the project though!

      Parent

      Why indeed? (5.00 / 1) (#57)
      by ruffian on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:33:01 AM EST
      Via Digby, Robert Reich on the Gang of Six.

      Just in case anyone was starting out their week thinking the WH was going to overrride what they came up with. Sorry to harsh your mellow.

      Taibbi on health care (5.00 / 1) (#84)
      by lambert on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:57:27 AM EST
      Susie excerpts Taibbi's newest, this time on health care. She concludes that the sausage really is sh*t:

      I just got done reading Matt Taibbi's "Sick and Wrong," and I find myself saying, "Yes, John McCain and Joe Lieberman are right. (choke) Rip this health care bill up and start over." I'm calling my congresswoman today and telling her the same thing.

      I'm shocked.

      The story isn't online, so post by post, I'll give you the highlights in which Taibbi provides the answers to questions I couldn't find anywhere else.

      Excellent reading for anybody who still believes that the bills on offer do anything more than (a) bail out the insurance companies with the mandate and (b) force millions of us to buy junk insurance.


      Mr. Praline: 'E's not pinin'! 'E's passed on! This parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-PARROT!!


      I read (none / 0) (#93)
      by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 11:09:51 AM EST
      on the Seattle Times web site that for an $80,000 hospital bill, Medicare pays $12,000.  (no I don't have a link).

      Medicare reimbursements are way too low. It's true that doctors charge too much, but Medicare +5% is just going to ensure that doctors refuse "public option" patients just as they do Medicare patients.

      The ideal situation would be if all fees for service were regulated (with regional fee adjustments).  No doctor could charge more and no insurance company could reimburse less than the regulated fee.  Of course something like that will never pass.

      Here in reality, doctors will only become  widely available to Medicare/Medicaid and "public option" patients if it's financially wise to take the patients.  Medicare+5% does not make it financially wise.  

      Parent

      Well if Medical Tourism becomes (5.00 / 1) (#102)
      by MO Blue on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 11:46:58 AM EST
      even more popular due to affordability, the medical providers may soon be begging for more Medicare patients.

      Parent
      I find medical tourism (none / 0) (#111)
      by Fabian on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 12:01:04 PM EST
      gruesome in terms of social justice.  Poor people abound in those countries, yet their doctors and their hospitals are treating wealthy Americans.

      The smart thing to do would be to set up a medical tourism center in Mexico or Canada.   That way people don't have to travel so far and we can keep our dollars relatively local.  

      Parent

      The smart thing to do IMO (5.00 / 1) (#117)
      by MO Blue on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 12:18:29 PM EST
      is to establish affordable health care here at home. That way people would not have to travel outside of the states and we can keep all of our dollars.

      Parent
      A secondary problem (none / 0) (#134)
      by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 06:33:33 PM EST
      is that the bill is inflated to pick additional dollars from Medicare... Of course if you have no insurance you pay the full amount.. and though your HMO may get a reduction your insurance premiums will keep going up...

      Speaking of this, I just opened a medical bill. Total billed was $1073, Medicare paid 262., and the supplemental insurance was billed $65.53. That's 31%.

      Either the bill is grossly high or the discount is grossly high. It can't be otherwise.

      Parent

      Bill is grossly high because the... (none / 0) (#143)
      by kdog on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:16:54 PM EST
      discount is grossly high, or the discount is grossly high since the bill is grossly high...take your pick, like the chicken or the egg:)

      Some of the plumbing supply manufacturers my outfit sells play that game...an exorbitant not of this universe list price with a .15 multiplier (85% off) to the distributor who sells it to the plumber list less 50% who sells it to the end user for list less 25%.  That way everybody along the line thinks they're getting a great deal (85/50/25% off!), when in actuality they are working off a list price that has no basis in reality.  When end users call in for list prices for budget purposes, I have to tell them to breath and not to worry because no one pays list.  But I can tell them what they will actually pay because I don't know how bad the dist. or plumber is gonna try and hose them.

      Not all roll that way, I much prefer the more honest manufacturers...list less 40% to the dist., less 10% to the plumber, end user pays list.  But the obvious rub there is less wiggle room for the snakes to hustle each other...so most of 'em roll the shady way.

      Point of my rant being it's all an illusion, if your healthcare provider got paid $327.73 that is what the healthcare was worth...the $1073 number is total bullsh*t, either created by the medicare/insurance co discount or to make medicare/insurance co think they are getting a steep discount.

      Now if we can figure out a way for the doc to charge $327.73 and get paid $327.73, I think we're halfway to solving this problem...by getting rid of the illusion that creates the fog that enables the hustle.

      Parent

      John Conyers (none / 0) (#2)
      by jbindc on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 07:58:32 AM EST
      Along with Carolyn Cheeks-Kilpatrick may be in for the electoral challenge of their careers:

      House Judiciary Committee Chairman John Conyers (D-Mich.) could face a tough reelection race in 2010, according to a new, independent poll released this weekend.

      40 percent of Conyers's constituents said he deserved reelection, according to a poll conducted earlier this month by the Lansing, Mich.-based Deno Noor Polling, in conjunction with the Rossman Group and Perricone Group.

      44 percent of Detroiters represented by Conyers said they would prefer to elect someone else. 15 percent were unsure or didn't know.

      The 80-year-old Conyers has served in Congress since 1965, making him one of the longest-serving members of Congress still in office. He could face a challenging reelection, though, due to the conviction of his wife, Monica Conyers, for bribery charges incurred while she served as President Pro Tempore of the Detroit City Council.

      Rep. Conyers has dodged questions about his wife's conviction, and it isn't clear whether the couple has maintained a close relationship in recent years.

      Still, 76 percent of those surveyed said the conduct of Monica Conyers wouldn't affect how they would vote for her powerful husband.

      Another Detroit lawmaker's political future could be imperiled by a family member's illicit political conduct, as well.

      27 percent of Detroiters said Rep. Carolyn Cheek Kilpatrick (D-Mich.) deserves reelection almost a year after she was almost unseated in a Democratic primary challenge.

      58 percent said that someone else should replace Kilpatrick, with 14 percent undecided.



      And Harry Reid (none / 0) (#3)
      by jbindc on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 08:02:34 AM EST
      Seems to be in some trouble as well...

      Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid is trailing a top Republican challenger by 11 points ahead of next year's election, according to a new poll.

      The Mason-Dixon Polling and Research survey, reported Sunday in the Las Vegas Review-Journal, showed GOP candidate Danny Tarkanian leading Reid by 49 percent to 38 percent in Nevada.

      Tarkanian is a former basketball player for the University of Nevada-Las Vegas and recently announced his candidacy.

      The new poll also showed Sue Lowden, chairwoman of the Nevada Republican Party and a possible candidate, leading Reid by 45 percent to 40 percent.



      I assume Danny Tarkanian is related to (none / 0) (#11)
      by ruffian on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 09:27:36 AM EST
      ex-Coach Jerry Tarkanian?

      Cannot say it would break my heart for Dems to lose a Senate seat if it meant Reid was no longer leader.

      Parent

      Danny is Tark's son (none / 0) (#43)
      by Dadler on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:22:48 AM EST
      Played at UNLV for him.

      Parent
      Make that... (none / 0) (#4)
      by kdog on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 08:53:47 AM EST
      a big steaming pile of utter and total bullsh*t...for the sake of accuracy:)

      And mind your cuss words lentinel...asterisks are a plain speakers friend on Talkleft:)

      or be phucking creative... (none / 0) (#24)
      by Dadler on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:00:51 AM EST
      ...with whatever bullsheet you are calling out or the aceholes you are criticizing.

      Parent
      Much of BBC Radio (none / 0) (#5)
      by bob h on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 08:54:01 AM EST
      this morning is taken up with this Libyan agent freed by Scotland.  There is talk of the Scottish government going down.

      Several kids from my hometown were killed in the Lockerbie bombing, and I have always been outraged by the deed.

      His Tripoli welcome was tasteless. But this man is terminally ill. Letting him expire with his family is just a gesture of decency. I just don't understand the furor.

      You don't understand the furor (5.00 / 1) (#31)
      by Radiowalla on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:09:58 AM EST
      and I don't understand the support for freeing a man who committed such a heinous crime.   So he is terminal?  Then, as I said on another thread, show him mercy by giving him excellent hospice care in the prison hospital.  Let his family come to say their good byes.   As it stands now, he has gone home to a hero's welcome and the victims' families are once more aggrieved.  

      I don't get it and I don't like it.

      Parent

      and (2.00 / 0) (#33)
      by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:11:10 AM EST
      as I said above, do we start releasing every terminal serial killer and nutcase like Manson.

      and if not why not.

      Parent

      instead of giving me a 2 (5.00 / 1) (#65)
      by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:41:25 AM EST
      try answering the question

      Parent
      and Manson (none / 0) (#83)
      by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:57:16 AM EST
      him too.  how about Dennis Rader the BTK killer?


      Parent
      get a grip pal (none / 0) (#91)
      by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 11:09:22 AM EST
      my mother died of cancer.  my father died of cancer.
      squawk all you want but keep your personal attacks to yourself.

      Parent
      Have to ask (5.00 / 1) (#113)
      by coast on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 12:04:15 PM EST
      You say that we should be merciful, yet you also stated that you are for LWOP.  How does that reconcile?  For those who don't get sick, you don't mind leaving them in a box till the end of their days.

      Mercy was shown to the prisoner in the fact that was not put to death.

      Parent

      hate and rage - pfft - (none / 0) (#103)
      by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 11:47:20 AM EST
      you are a riot.


      Parent
      oooo (none / 0) (#108)
      by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 11:54:34 AM EST
      that'll keep me awake worring

      Parent
      If they are on death's door... (5.00 / 1) (#67)
      by kdog on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:41:36 AM EST
      I say why the hell not?  Even Manson.

      Blessed are the merciful.  Lord knows we could use the good karma.

      Parent

      I expected you to be consistent (none / 0) (#71)
      by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:45:07 AM EST
      but I assume you oppose the death penalty.  are you not at all worried that this has given the death penalty supporters their best argument in years?

      Parent
      How Do You Figure? (5.00 / 1) (#80)
      by daring grace on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:50:51 AM EST
      We release them to die in 2 months. They stay in prison to die in 2 months.

      With al-Megrahi only in prison 8 years if he'd been sentenced to death over here, I doubt his appeals would have run out by the time the cancer takes him.

      So he still wouldn't have been executed.

      Parent

      It probably will... (5.00 / 2) (#82)
      by kdog on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:54:12 AM EST
      give death penalty fans some ammo...but I'm big on doing what is right and come what may...I'm not gonna criticize mercy and compassion just because it gives death penalty advocates ammo in a debate....you do what your conscience deems correct, and come what may.  

      Parent
      I don't understand either Bob... (none / 0) (#6)
      by kdog on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 09:01:09 AM EST
      Chalk it up to the dark side human nature...the old "us vs. them" is a tough nut to crack...some people confuse true strength with weakness and defeat.

      Parent
      Perhaps some of it is (5.00 / 3) (#7)
      by nycstray on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 09:19:38 AM EST
      a sense of injustice. They could not be there with their family members when they were killed, yet the man that killed them gets compassion and to be with his family. That's a lot of hurt for some people to overcome. Not being able to say Goodbye and I love you . . . .

      Parent
      Exactly (5.00 / 1) (#12)
      by jbindc on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 09:30:15 AM EST
      They were innocents who were brutally murdered who got no compassion.

      He is an evil being who gets unwarranted compassion.

      Parent

      Compassion... (5.00 / 1) (#16)
      by kdog on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 09:38:28 AM EST
      is in such short supply in this world...we need more, not less.


      Parent
      I Can't Help It (5.00 / 3) (#19)
      by daring grace on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 09:46:13 AM EST
      I favor a governing principle that is better than the indecency of our enemies.

      Parent
      Well (none / 0) (#21)
      by jbindc on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 09:53:37 AM EST
      We should never have a governing principle where mass murderers get slaps on the wrist.

      Parent
      Yeah... (5.00 / 1) (#29)
      by kdog on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:08:04 AM EST
      terminal cancer is barely punishment at all...a real slap on the wrist...its so unfair, damn you cancer!:)

      Or is the problem that karma took care of this guy, denying us our chance to make him pay to the satisfaction of the mob?

      Parent

      Nope (5.00 / 2) (#30)
      by daring grace on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:09:24 AM EST
      and from where I sit being released to go home to be terminally ill and die in a few months is no slap on any wrist.

      Having lost my sister to cancer recently, I know the last 2-3 months are no picnic.

      Anyway, this is Scotland. I doubt he would have been released from a U.S. prison--military or civilian, which says so much about American civilization.

      Parent

      I wouldn't say 8 years (5.00 / 1) (#32)
      by gyrfalcon on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:10:40 AM EST
      in prison is exactly a "slap on the wrist."  I would hate to get such a slap.  Is it sufficient?  Under ordinary circumstances, no way.  But to call it a "slap on the wrist" is absurd.

      However, the Lords of Karma or God or fate or whatever you want to call it have given him an early, and very unpleasant death sentence.  It's honestly not clear to me why that isn't enough for the vengeance-seekers.

      Parent

      because they ARE... (5.00 / 1) (#46)
      by Dadler on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:24:26 AM EST
      ...vengeance seekers.

      Parent
      As others have pointed out (4.00 / 1) (#104)
      by jbindc on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 11:47:24 AM EST
      That equals about 12 days in prison for every person he killed.

      Some justice.  Personally, I wish he could live 270 lifteimes so he could serve them all in prison.  And no, I cannot feel sorry for him because he has cancer.  Maybe that's karma and he will have an extremely painful and unpleasant death.  But it still wouldn't be enough for what he did.

      Parent

      Hope on a plane to Libya... (5.00 / 1) (#110)
      by kdog on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 11:58:46 AM EST
      and stab him 500 times if it means that much to ya jb, hook electrodes up to his nuts and torture him...I prefer you (or any individual) do that, rather than petition the state to no longer be merciful towards dying prisoners.

      The state must be better, or else lets juts do away with the state and get on with the anarchy...be cruel and free instead of just cruel.

      Parent

      Which Speaks to The Inanity (5.00 / 1) (#120)
      by daring grace on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 12:43:02 PM EST
      of equating mere penal law punishments with  'justice' for the victims since he can't serve 270 lifetimes in prison or be executed 270 times.

      So by that measurement, it's already beyond the means of mankind to effectively punish him, and afford the survivors that kind of relief or satisfaction.

      Parent

      Family members and loved ones... (5.00 / 2) (#13)
      by kdog on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 09:30:53 AM EST
      of the victims I can understand, its everybody else I can't...the haters dancing in Tripoli and the haters stomping their feet in the UK/US...its like they're all in a big rush to finish the race to the bottom.

      Parent
      Dog (5.00 / 2) (#17)
      by jbindc on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 09:40:07 AM EST
      Why can't others (besides family members) be outraged at what appears to be a huge injustice? By that logic, people here shouldn't be outraged at the actions at GITMO - I mean, hey, it doesn't affect me or anyone I know, so who cares what happens to them?

      Parent
      They can be outraged... (5.00 / 1) (#27)
      by kdog on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:05:55 AM EST
      if it floats their boat...I just ain't getting down with it.  Free speech rocks both ways.

      I do see a big difference between b*tchin' about government mercy and compassion and b*tchin' about government torture and human rights abuses...and I know what I'm gonna keep b*tchin' about.

      Parent

      but there IS NO JUSTICE for murder (5.00 / 2) (#47)
      by Dadler on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:28:02 AM EST
      never has been, never will be.  

      Parent
      There is closure. The families (5.00 / 1) (#85)
      by Cream City on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:59:34 AM EST
      had some sense of closure, if not for a long decade afterward until the conviction -- a conviction already tempered with mercy, because it was for a life sentence.  So the families could get on with their lives (look up and read what they said then).

      That sense of closure was ripped open for them last week, and they are taken backward to a terrible time.

      It's understandable.  And it's not for us or anyone to judge how they feel.  (It never is for any of us to judge how anyone feels, and it's fairly useless, anyway.)

      Parent

      Dancers in Tripoli (5.00 / 1) (#38)
      by gyrfalcon on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:18:06 AM EST
      as far as I've read, are dancing because they fervently believe he did not do this and that Libya did not do this.  They may or may not be deluded (there does seem to be something less than an airtight case against this man), but they are celebrating the release and homecoming of what they believe to be an innocent man.

      That's a very different thing, obviously, than the widespread implication in the U.S. that they're celebrating the release of someone they believe committed mass murder of innocents.

      Parent

      Excellent point g... (5.00 / 1) (#78)
      by kdog on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:49:19 AM EST
      Like when we hold a parade for our returning soldiers from Iraq or Afghanistan...how does that look to some Iraqi or Afghani who lost a loved one to a cluster bomb?

      Parent
      When was the last time (5.00 / 1) (#98)
      by coast on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 11:38:13 AM EST
      you saw coverage of a parade for a returning vet other than by a local outlet?

      Parent
      Veterans Day... (none / 0) (#112)
      by kdog on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 12:01:24 PM EST
      every year it gets national play, but other than yeah its usually just local.

      Parent
      Can't relate to the dancers (none / 0) (#18)
      by nycstray on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 09:43:24 AM EST
      but I could see people who object to the release being able to empathize with those that lost loved ones and their passion steaming for there . . .  I wouldn't call it a race to the bottom though. And is it really hate if it is based in empathy?

      Parent
      Huff Post says Madoff has terminal (5.00 / 1) (#22)
      by oculus on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 09:54:10 AM EST
      cancer.  Bet he doesn't obtain compassionate release anytime soon.

      Parent
      If His Crimes (5.00 / 1) (#44)
      by daring grace on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:23:08 AM EST
      were committed 21 years ago, I'd say he had a shot. Also if he'd been in prison for the last eight years.

      Not to mention if an appeals court had ruled he had a strong case for revisiting his conviction.

      Parent

      its simple (5.00 / 1) (#25)
      by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:02:45 AM EST
      what does LIFE in prison mean.  do we start releasing everyone who is about to die?  manson serial killers?

      if not why not.

      Parent

      in other words (5.00 / 1) (#26)
      by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:04:03 AM EST
      the Scottish government just gave death penalty supporters their best argument in years.

      it gave them a valid point which have have not had for years.


      Parent

      Seems to me the guy did (5.00 / 0) (#34)
      by gyrfalcon on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:11:56 AM EST
      get the death penalty.  It just wasn't the Scottish government that gave it to him.

      Parent
      completely misses the point (5.00 / 1) (#35)
      by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:14:39 AM EST
      put it another way (none / 0) (#37)
      by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:16:20 AM EST
      suppose Manson got cancer.  would you send him home?

      he didnt even kill anyone personally.


      Parent

      Yes, I'd send him "home" (5.00 / 1) (#53)
      by Dadler on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:31:20 AM EST
      Of course, Manson has no home or family who would take him in, which is an entirely different scenario.  

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      thank you for being consistent (2.00 / 1) (#58)
      by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:33:17 AM EST
      if misguided.

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      I suspect charlie has an "extended" (none / 0) (#69)
      by easilydistracted on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:43:09 AM EST
      family that's just as wicked as he and one that would undoubtedly be more than happy to throw open their doors for him.

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      I MIght Not Release Manson (Myself) (none / 0) (#49)
      by daring grace on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:29:08 AM EST
      Just like I might not have ordered the release of al-Megrahi.

      But I'm glad to see that compassion reflected in the actions in Scotland. And I would like to see it more over here.

      But your point is well taken. In the U.S., our designated high profile 'monsters' face a higher hurdle before they merit any societal compassion.

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      Release Manson? (none / 0) (#101)
      by gyrfalcon on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 11:45:17 AM EST
      If he had terminal cancer and three months to live?  Yes, I would.  He'd be no harm to anyone and he's already spent most of his life in prison.

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      Robin Williams to portray Susan Boyle (none / 0) (#8)
      by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 09:20:52 AM EST
      It was fine (5.00 / 2) (#15)
      by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 09:32:08 AM EST
      when he played Mrs Doubtfire, a fictional character.  But this sounds like a Saturday Night Live parody gone movie and it's just nasty.

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      I agree (none / 0) (#50)
      by ruffian on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:30:49 AM EST
      Can't even fathom the reason for this

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      Im sure you mean (none / 0) (#63)
      by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:39:05 AM EST
      besides the ton of money it will probably make.

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      Well, there is that (none / 0) (#124)
      by ruffian on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 01:24:02 PM EST
      its monday (none / 0) (#9)
      by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 09:22:11 AM EST
      Jeralyn, that song still frays nerves here. (none / 0) (#10)
      by oculus on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 09:24:04 AM EST


      the third man (none / 0) (#20)
      by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 09:52:37 AM EST
      In "The Third Man Factor," John Geiger, a fellow at the University of Toronto, presents many accounts of such experiences, and not only from climbers. Among those who have felt a ghostly companionship he cites Charles Lindbergh on his solo flight across the ­Atlantic in 1927 and the last man to walk out of the South Tower of the World Trade ­Center before it ­collapsed on 9/11. "Over the years," Mr. Geiger writes, "the ­experience has ­occurred again and again, not only to 9/11 survivors, mountaineers, and ­divers, but also to ­polar explorers, ­prisoners of war, solo sailors, shipwreck ­survivors, aviators, and ­astronauts. All have ­escaped ­traumatic events only to tell strikingly similar stories of having experienced the close presence of a companion and helper." Mr. ­Geiger's book is a highly readable, often gripping, ­collection of survival stories, alongside a survey of theories that attempt to explain the third-man phenomenon.

      the human brain is unfathomably complex (5.00 / 1) (#62)
      by Dadler on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:38:33 AM EST
      think about phantom limb syndrom in amputees.  or seriously abused kids who "lose track of their bodies" sometimes.  or hypnosis.  or on and on and on.

      hell, i've has psychic experiences in my life a few times that completely defy explanation.

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      maybe its (none / 0) (#64)
      by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:39:51 AM EST
      Jesus

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      Orange sunshine was the culprit in my case (none / 0) (#73)
      by easilydistracted on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:45:34 AM EST
      pfft (none / 0) (#77)
      by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:47:39 AM EST
      same here

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      yettie (none / 0) (#107)
      by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 11:52:23 AM EST
      ?

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      telekinetic (none / 0) (#121)
      by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 01:02:56 PM EST
      yettie?

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      Well, that might explain (none / 0) (#97)
      by brodie on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 11:38:08 AM EST
      how Lucky Lindy could stay awake for however long it was (24 hrs or more) with minimal stimulants (maybe some early morning coffee before takeoff?) and not fall asleep even after getting only a few hours of fitful sleep the night before.

      Might also explain why he entitled his memoir, "We".

      I don't know about some of these mystical things, however.  

      Though I do know I suspect the official story about the Lindbergh kidnapping, and how it might have been a bogus cover story to protect probably the most popular man on the planet at the time.

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      Brunlett turns 2nd unassisted (none / 0) (#23)
      by oculus on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 09:57:12 AM EST
      triple play in MLB history.  MLB

      Or... (none / 0) (#28)
      by MileHi Hawkeye on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:07:17 AM EST
      ...the second unassisted triple play to end a ballgame in MLB history.

      A walk-off triple play.

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      That's right: (none / 0) (#42)
      by scribe on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:21:19 AM EST
      the 15th unassisted TP, and only the 2d walk-off unassisted TP.

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      Yep. (none / 0) (#81)
      by MileHi Hawkeye on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:50:54 AM EST
      And Troy Tulowitzki has one of those fifteen unassisted TP's.  He's also just the second player in baseball history to both turn an unassisted TP and hit for the cycle.  

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      Let's get specific here. How many (none / 0) (#66)
      by oculus on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:41:36 AM EST
      unassisted triple plays during day/night/away/home/astroturf/natural grass/dome/open games?  

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      Obviously my dream to write sports (none / 0) (#131)
      by oculus on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 06:08:40 PM EST
      headlines is now shattered.

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      BTW, oculus... (none / 0) (#36)
      by MileHi Hawkeye on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:14:39 AM EST
      ...did you hear ESPN saying that Smoltz's start against the Padres yesterday was like making a minor league rehab start?  Ouch.

      Meanwhile, at Coors, a showdown of two of the best young pitchers in the Majors.  Rematch Friday at SF.  Should be a good one.

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      I am listening to Derek Jacobi read (none / 0) (#39)
      by oculus on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:18:57 AM EST
      Homer's "The Illiad."  Turns out Zeus, Hera, and Apollo are manipulating the outcome of the Trojan Wars.  That's what I think happened to the Padres yesterday.  Why us?  Why John Smoltz?  

      Parent
      Those of us over 40... (5.00 / 1) (#54)
      by MileHi Hawkeye on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:31:44 AM EST
      ...need all of the help we can get sometimes--even from the Gods of old!

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      As the Mutts' annoucer said (none / 0) (#41)
      by scribe on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:20:17 AM EST
      "The mets have found innumerable ways to lose this year."

      This, however, was one not tried since 1925.  

      My only question:  with two on, nobody out, and winning run at the plate, what were they thinking having both runners going?  The manon second, I can kinda see, to avoid a 5-4-3 TP, but, still....

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      The batter seemed to be personally (none / 0) (#45)
      by oculus on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:24:21 AM EST
      offended by the triple play.

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      He shouldn't be (none / 0) (#56)
      by scribe on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:32:35 AM EST
      He's the guy who swung at the pitch, and who hit the soft little liner to 2d when a few feet more likely would have yielded a Texas Leaguer and tied the game.

      I blame the coaches, who had the runners going with nobody out.

      Parent

      Eric Holder (none / 0) (#51)
      by CST on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:31:02 AM EST
      Seems to be holding down the fort at the justice department pretty well.  He may pursue the prisoner-abuse cases after all.

      I read this weekend (none / 0) (#55)
      by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 10:32:11 AM EST
      that its coming for sure.  I think he may be waiting until be release of the documents that are supposed to be released today.


      Parent
      from stinque.com (none / 0) (#99)
      by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 11:41:49 AM EST
      With the Birther Sitcom on hiatus, WorldNetDaily has turned its attention to the next authoritarian cabal that will provide a pretext for enslaving (reality-dodging) God-fearing Americans: Swine Flu.

      The Pig Dawn scenario, in case you've been distracted by Project Runway, is that the Nazis subverting our Republic will use an H1N1 outbreak to declare martial law and put those reconstituted FEMA camps back into service

      I'm not surprised. (none / 0) (#123)
      by easilydistracted on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 01:08:42 PM EST
      My sister-in-law is of the same ilk. Her mindset is to see a closed door and say hello conspiracy. She gets quite a bit of her gobbledygook from the 700 Club, where for at least a decade probably longer viewers have been hearing that the religious persecution of God-fearing Americans and the second-coming, are imminent. One would think that sooner or later these followers would give pause and ponder,"Hey, wait a minute, none of this stuff ever happens. Hmm..."  

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      At my evangelical chrisitan h.s. in 1984 (none / 0) (#128)
      by Dadler on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 04:48:53 PM EST
      I remember an assembly/chapel service, where the principal of the school told the student body that the board of directors had just approved a 20 year plan for the school.  He then added that he personally didn't think the plan necessary since he truly believed we were in the end times and it would all be over way before that 20 year plan expired.

      But study hard kids, your future beckons.

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      All promise and no happen.. (none / 0) (#133)
      by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 06:17:46 PM EST
      Reminds me of Global Warming.

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      Global warming is like (none / 0) (#137)
      by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 07:51:23 PM EST
      Here's the right (none / 0) (#139)
      by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 07:55:16 PM EST
      Link

      Sorry about that.

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      I translate (none / 0) (#142)
      by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 09:54:49 PM EST
      colder is warmer.

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      I do wish (none / 0) (#145)
      by shoephone on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 11:50:39 PM EST
      the two of you would just get a room.

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      Scoping Bill's waves... (none / 0) (#119)
      by kdog on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 12:39:22 PM EST
      marveling at Mother Nature at the beach was fun yesterday, but if I knew there was a national topless day celebration going down at Central Park at I would have much preferred to marvel at those creations of M.N.  

      Day late and a nickel short...what else is new:)  

      very cute (none / 0) (#122)
      by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 01:04:04 PM EST
      dog commercial.

      I have been seeing this and I think its great.  but I couldnt remember who the commercial was for.

      Love that one too (none / 0) (#125)
      by ruffian on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 01:28:35 PM EST
      The Golden looks and acts so much like my old Ruffian that recently passed, and the Jack Russell reminds me of his buddy Sparky from the dog park who just worshiped him. Ruffy knew how to keep us all hopping to make him happy. Very cute.

      Parent
      Ghost has been (none / 0) (#127)
      by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 01:38:27 PM EST
      playing the part of the Jack Russel for a week now.

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      Socraticsilence as you asked...... (none / 0) (#132)
      by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 06:15:12 PM EST
      Socraticsilence - Re the Vietnam war and some of the problems caused by the activities of the Left.

      Q: Was the American antiwar movement important to Hanoi's victory?
      A:  It was essential to our strategy.  Support of the war from our rear was completely secure  while the American rear was vulnerable.  Every day our leadership would listen to world news over the radio at 9 a.m.  to follow the growth of the American antiwar movement.  Visits to Hanoi by people like Jane Fonda, and former Attorney General Ramsey Clark and ministers gave us confidence  that we should hold on  in the face of battlefield reverses. We were elated when Jane Fonda, wearing a red Vietnamese dress, said at a press conference that she was ashamed of American actions in the war and that she would struggle along with us.

      Q: Did the Politburo pay attention to these visits?
      A: Keenly.

      Q: Why?
      A: Those people represented the conscience of America. The conscience of America was part of its war-making capability, and we were turning that power in our favor. America lost because of its democracy; through dissent and protest it lost the ability to mobilize a will to win.

      Q: How could the Americans have won the war?
      A: Cut the Ho Chi Minh trail inside Laos. If Johnson had granted [Gen. William] Westmoreland's requests to enter Laos and block the Ho Chi Minh trail, Hanoi could not have won the war.

      I would disagree with one thing. It wasn't the conscience of America but rather the weakness of the Left and the politicians that came to carry their water. Mostly Democratic but some Repubs.

      WSJ interview with Bui Tin


      Yes, all critics of the Left's Vietnam war (none / 0) (#138)
      by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 24, 2009 at 07:52:55 PM EST
      activities lie.

      (Sarcasm akert)

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