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Friday Afternoon Open Thread

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Blog Related
Posted on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 01:27:24 PM EST
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The Gators are ranked #1 in the preseason Coaches College Football Poll.

The Yankees lead the Red Sox by 3.5 games after beating them last night 13-6.

All is right in the world of sports.

This is an Open Thread.

< Advice And Consent: A Final Word | Springtime For Hitler: Part 2 >

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    Friday Afternoon Open Thread | 111 comments (111 topical)

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    Three Good Reasons to Liquidate our Empire (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by Dadler on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 01:30:58 PM EST
    "And Ten Steps to Take to Do So" by Chalmers Johnson.

    And he's (none / 0) (#105)
    by cal1942 on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 07:50:30 PM EST
    absolutely correct.

    Ours is not a new story.

    Parent

    Hillary laughs off ... (5.00 / 6) (#8)
    by Robot Porter on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 01:43:06 PM EST
    literally laughs off, Bolton's criticism of Bill's Korea trip.

    In fact, she laughs the minute his name is mentioned.

    And later says, ""If President Obama walked on water, [Bolton would] say he couldn't swim."

    You can see the video here.

    Not much you can do with the Republicans these days other than laugh at them.  But it's fun to see Hillary doing just that.

    pitch perfect (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 01:58:29 PM EST
    response

    Parent
    and she did it so well :) (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by nycstray on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:01:26 PM EST


    Parent
    If she were put in charge of health (none / 0) (#29)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:30:32 PM EST
    care reform for Obama what result re the protestors?  

    Parent
    honestly (none / 0) (#31)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:35:36 PM EST
    I think they might be even more vitriolic.  I believe that with Obama they have been to some extent up until now cowed by the fear of being called racist.  the current enabling of the right wing media has lifted that fear a bit.

    on the other hand, Hillary they can hate right out in the open.  if she was in charge it would probably have already become dangerously physical.
    this was never going to be easy.

    just MO

    Parent

    No (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 03:14:33 PM EST
    actually I dont think it would have been worse, I think it would've been a little better, but NOT much, because this is how everybody is going to be treated by these types. The advantage that Hillary would've had that Obama does not have is the connection with the working class and she would've been able to explain what's going on and  why it work. Obama has due to lack of leadership left a huge void that has been filled by teh right wing. Do you think these people care about being called a racist?

    Parent
    You're right (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by nycstray on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 03:45:15 PM EST
    She would have articulated the plan more clearly (heck, she would have a plan!) and not left it up to RW interpretation. And she would fight back, imo. Remember how she called out O on his Harry and Louise stunt? I think she would have to be more subtle than that, but she at least has passion about health care and it's not about 2012 or being able to say you passed "reform", any "reform".

    Parent
    thats certainly (none / 0) (#55)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 04:03:18 PM EST
    true

    Parent
    Absolutely (none / 0) (#103)
    by cal1942 on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 07:22:07 PM EST
    In spite of the constant MSM attacks and the unrelenting filth of the Obamablogosphere during the primaries she still got more popular votes than Obama.

    She was tougher by a significant magnitude than any other primary candidate of either party.

    I believe we would have seen a much different approach.  A real lost opportunity.

    Parent

    I read a Kos diary (none / 0) (#111)
    by NYShooter on Sun Aug 09, 2009 at 05:01:57 AM EST
    the other day. The guy had done an in-depth analysis of Hillary's and Obama's legislative records back in the primary days when there was an issue as to who had more legislative experience. Anyway, the point that stuck out for me was that 41% of the bills Hillary sponsored, or co-sponsored had to do with health care, especially children and elders. That is her calling; no one can take that away from her.

    To your point:

    I think she would have attacked the health care problem in our country with a zealousness never seen before, and protected her turf from the Republicans, and the Corporations, like an animal protects its young......savagely.

    Missed opportunity? Yeah, I guess.....If that's what we're calling tragedy these days.


    Parent

    I think some probably do (none / 0) (#43)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 03:17:32 PM EST
    I think its six of one . . .

    there is, I found out in the primaries, a profound irrational and deep hatred of Hillary that is, at least to me, surprisingly widespread.  her attacks would have been more from the right AND left.

    Parent

    give Obama time (none / 0) (#46)
    by CST on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 03:22:33 PM EST
    I think after a few years, he'll have spawned his very own "widespread profound irrational and deep hatred".  I think we're seeing the beginning of it now.  It wasn't there before the primaries, but it sure is picking up fast.

    Parent
    Like (none / 0) (#47)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 03:27:54 PM EST
    CST says. Obama is picking it up a lot faster than Hillary did. It took Hillary years to get to that and Obama is already close to after 6 months on the job.

    Parent
    Really? (5.00 / 2) (#66)
    by daring grace on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 05:13:15 PM EST
    I recall Hillary Rodham Clinton being attacked and targeted for unusually vile criticism before her husband was even elected.

    And this wiki entry seems to confirm that.

    Beginning with Daniel Wattenberg's August 1992 The American Spectator article "The Lady Macbeth of Little Rock", Hillary Clinton's own past ideological and ethical record came under conservative attack.[74] At least twenty other articles in major publications also drew some kind of comparison between her and Lady Macbeth.[116]

    Other segments of the public focused on her appearance, which had evolved over time from inattention to fashion during her days in Arkansas,[131] to a popular site in the early days of the World Wide Web devoted to showing her many different, and much analyzed, hairstyles as First Lady,[132][133] to an appearance on the cover of Vogue magazine in 1998.[134]

    I don't think Madam Secretary ever got a honeymoon from the press, or especially from the rabid right wing.

    Parent

    well (none / 0) (#68)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 05:16:36 PM EST
    considering the fact that these same people you are referencing went after Obama before the election, I dont really think it's that much different before. It seems to be reaching a crescendo earlier with Obama

    Parent
    Wow (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by daring grace on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 05:43:23 PM EST
    It seems to me that Obama has enjoyed an unusually benevolent relationship with the media, the right wing notwithstanding, especially before the election.

    I don't recall HRC getting anywhere near the same gentle treatment. As a woman who relished the chance to have an intelligent, independent woman as FLOTUS, I vividly recall HRC's strengths being portrayed as flaws or as oddities by the MSM.

    And it only accelerated and amplified once the Clintons were in the WH.

    Parent

    Well (none / 0) (#76)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 05:55:28 PM EST
    you were quoting the right wing and so was I. Yeah, they have given Obama a break but it doesnt seem to have really helped him that much considering the downward slide in the approval ratings.

    Parent
    Daring Grace is correct (none / 0) (#99)
    by cal1942 on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 07:02:00 PM EST
    Even before the '92 election Hillary Clinton was subjected to MSM vitriole.

    Obama was and is still the darling of the MSM.

    The Clinton's NEVER had even a hint of a honeymoon.

    Parent

    Only Partly (none / 0) (#86)
    by daring grace on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 06:13:15 PM EST
    was I quoting the right wing. The MSM were already in on it before the '92 election.

    That quote also included this:

    At least twenty other articles in major publications also drew some kind of comparison between her and Lady Macbeth. (Emphasis added).

    I haven't addressed what you're describing as Obama's rapid fall from grace with the media.

    I just dispute your characterization of Obama having a rougher time earlier than SOS Clinton. I don't even think Bill Clinton was as early on savaged quite as viciously as was HRC.

    Although maybe he was and that's just my vivid subjective memory of it from that time.

    Parent

    I never (none / 0) (#102)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 07:20:55 PM EST
    meant that he had a rougher time because I agree with you he didnt. My point was that he has some of the same critics that Clinton had. The irony is that the "media love" hasn't done him much good. In the end people dont really care what the media says when they dont have jobs.

    Parent
    Bolton is a caricature (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by KeysDan on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 03:20:51 PM EST
    of himself--white mustachio and all.  The man has never seen a bomb he does not like, or is not willing to use given half a chance., which is the definition of diplomacy he flies by.

    Parent
    that moustache (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 03:33:28 PM EST
    I always think he looks like an aging escapee from a gay leather bar.


    Parent
    Oh, thank you (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by Cream City on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 03:48:01 PM EST
    as now I will think of that whenever he comes up, unavoidably, on my teevee screen.  Bwwaaahhhh.

    Parent
    Hey! (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by mmc9431 on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 04:33:01 PM EST
    That's an insult to gay leathermen everywhere! (snark) He's looks more like an aging Yosemite Sam to me.

    Parent
    That is definitely an ... (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by Robot Porter on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 05:40:26 PM EST
    insult to Yosemite Sams everywhere!

    Parent
    perhaps (5.00 / 2) (#74)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 05:43:33 PM EST
    but Im still enjoying the image of Bolton dragging his butt on the ground and screaminG "MA BISCUITS IS BURNIN!!"

    Parent
    I will take your word for it (none / 0) (#65)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 05:10:13 PM EST


    Parent
    Yosemite Sam (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by squeaky on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 05:46:34 PM EST
    But way more humorless..

    Parent
    She shrunk John Bolton (none / 0) (#11)
    by andgarden on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 01:53:01 PM EST
    Seriously, what a deflating laugh.

    Parent
    She also made ... (5.00 / 3) (#18)
    by Robot Porter on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:07:58 PM EST
    Zakaria look like fool for even bringing Bolton up.

    Parent
    Almost sounded like Amy Poehler! (none / 0) (#14)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:01:46 PM EST


    Parent
    naaa (none / 0) (#16)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:04:35 PM EST
    she never  had the laugh right

    Parent
    There must be some mistake. Where (none / 0) (#2)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 01:35:37 PM EST
    is Michigan in the top 25 of the coaches' poll?

    No segue:  at least the Padres can beat the Mets.

    Tied with Troy (!)... (none / 0) (#7)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 01:41:09 PM EST
    ...with one vote.  Ouch!

    Not sure why Iowa is 21st with the killer schedule they have.  Guess I'll enjoy it while it lasts...

    S*ck it Cornhuskers!!!

    Parent

    Guess I'll pull for Iowa this year. (none / 0) (#9)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 01:44:30 PM EST
    Maybe they can knock off OSU?

    Parent
    Perhaps. (none / 0) (#15)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:04:14 PM EST
    If so, there will be much rejoycing all over Hawkeye Nation.  

    That game is in Columbus though, while the Michigan game is at home.  

    Under a month before the first kick-off of the season.  Woo-hoo!  

    /still wonders where the Summer went

    Parent

    My usually well-informed source (none / 0) (#17)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:07:48 PM EST
    (read fanatical about U of M football although he went to Central Mich.!!!) says Michigan will win 8 games this year.  Didn't say which 8.

    Parent
    Tell your friend (none / 0) (#37)
    by jbindc on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:47:03 PM EST
    Central Michigan has a better football team.

    Fire Up Chips!

    Parent

    Every year (none / 0) (#107)
    by cal1942 on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 07:58:04 PM EST
    I vow that I'll not take it so seriously, that I won't get emotionally involved.

    Then August rolls around.

    Parent

    Indeed (none / 0) (#10)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 01:45:40 PM EST
    Someone mistakenly gave them 1 vote.  I wonder if that person has been toking up with kdog.

    Michigan State falls just outside the top 25, but I continue to have high hopes for them under their new coach.

    Parent

    Hope, yes, but (none / 0) (#108)
    by cal1942 on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 08:05:19 PM EST
    OL still a big question mark - the outlook isn't brilliant

    Graduated good QB

    Graduated very good Running back

    No deep threat last year and no deep threat on the horizon this year

    Defense may be better

    Parent

    Bronco fans... (none / 0) (#3)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 01:36:46 PM EST
    ...are already in mid-season form--booing the new QB when he threw a couple of interceptions during practice last night.  

    Going to be a looong season for old Neckbeard.

    Could there be a Vick sighting... (none / 0) (#20)
    by kdog on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:10:50 PM EST
    in Broncos camp soon I wonder?

    Parent
    Doubtful, IMO. (none / 0) (#23)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:16:08 PM EST
    I've read some posts that suggest he'll end up in with a small market team with a extremely loyal fanbase that can overlook his past.  

    Hello Green Bay?  Makes sense, they've got a 2nd year starter with no experienced back-ups.  

    Parent

    Green Bay fans hate animals? (none / 0) (#24)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:18:41 PM EST


    Parent
    Not if they're deep fried! (none / 0) (#26)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:21:30 PM EST


    Parent
    And on a stick and covered (none / 0) (#32)
    by Cream City on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:40:12 PM EST
    in chocolate!  Seriously, even you as a Midwesterner from the state whose state fair features amazing butter sculptures . . . even you might freek at the state fair menus lately.  Ours actually has a beloved listing of "foods on a stick."

    This year's addition at our state fair, currently going gangbusters: chocolate-covered bacon, on -- of course -- a stick.

    Parent

    Everyone knows... (none / 0) (#35)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:44:34 PM EST
    ...that bacon makes everything better, even chocolate!  

    Ths pointy stick is just an added bonus.

    Parent

    Have you tried (none / 0) (#45)
    by easilydistracted on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 03:21:04 PM EST
    chicken fried bacon?

    Parent
    I haven't... (none / 0) (#110)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Sat Aug 08, 2009 at 10:28:59 AM EST
    ...but it does sound tasty!  Does it come on a stick or in sandwich form like a pork tenderloin?

    Have you tried the bacon flavored vodka?  I hear it makes one heck of a bloody mary.  

    Parent

    I saw deep-fried green beans at out fair. (none / 0) (#62)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 04:52:00 PM EST
    No stick.

    Parent
    Ever since we saw the chef (none / 0) (#106)
    by Anne on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 07:56:43 PM EST
    Rick Bayless in a t-shirt that said "Bacon is Meat Candy," that's how my husband refers to it; the "chocolate-covered" aspect gives it new meaning.

    And I bet it tastes really good!

    Parent

    They've been saying that... (none / 0) (#25)
    by kdog on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:20:33 PM EST
    but I don't get Green Bay...just locked up Rodgers for big dough, and have Brian Brohm, a 2nd round pick, to back up.

    Minnesota makes the most sense probably...him and Peterson in the same backfield and BTD's favorite receiver making noise in camp...and in the dome on the turf, they could be a juggernaut...assuming Vick hasn't lost too much.

    Parent

    Percy's departure didn't (none / 0) (#27)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:22:55 PM EST
    mean much re the coachs' poll apparently.  

    Parent
    That is the question... (none / 0) (#28)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:24:22 PM EST
    ...what skills does he still have.  It's not like he was a great passer in the first place.  

    But, if there is still interest in Jeff freakin' George, I guess anything is possible.

    Parent

    I really don't see him as a starter... (none / 0) (#34)
    by kdog on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:41:50 PM EST
    anymore, at least right away.

    But I think as a "Wildcat" wrinkle in an offense he could be very effective.

    Parent

    Being a Packer fan (none / 0) (#33)
    by Cream City on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:41:31 PM EST
    is an act of faith.  It's not something you "get."  It's something you believe.

    Once you "get" that, all becomes clear . . . believe me.

    Parent

    CHARGERS, BABY!! (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by Dadler on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:50:37 PM EST
    Ahem.

    Parent
    You can never (none / 0) (#41)
    by brodie on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 03:09:49 PM EST
    underestimate the Bolts.

    Oh wait, actually I think you can underestimate 'em ...   ; )

    Still can't overestimate the greatness of their uniforms, though.  The throwback ones are classic.  New ones with the darker blue are also noteworthy.

    Now, if they could only get a very large and loyal fanbase in SD that is worthy of the team and its uniforms and that shows up to the games and actually cheers for the home team ...  

    Parent

    when they won the afc champ. in '94-'95... (none / 0) (#57)
    by Dadler on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 04:10:10 PM EST
    ...i have never seen a city in such a state of celebration.  like the war was over.  that wasn't even for a Super Bowl win.  got the same problem most of SoCal has, an abundance of transplants with allegiances to other teams.  but we also have a dead economy, historically low wages ("you get paid extra in sunshine"), and an astronomically high cost of living.  no surprise they can sell more overpriced seats right now.

    Parent
    no surprise they CAN'T... (none / 0) (#58)
    by Dadler on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 04:11:02 PM EST


    Parent
    You don't blame it on the Q? (none / 0) (#63)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 04:53:12 PM EST


    Parent
    Anecdote re SoCal (none / 0) (#109)
    by cal1942 on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 08:19:23 PM EST
    My mother's sister and family moved to SD during the war. One of her kids, who was maybe 8 or 9 at the time and still lives in tne SD area and now in his mid-seventies roots heartily for Michigan State, Michigan, the Detroit Lions (poor soul), the Detroit Tigers, etc.

    When Detroit played San Diego in the series in '84 he was excited as a kid cheering on the Tigers.

    Parent

    Nope (none / 0) (#64)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 05:08:54 PM EST
    The fan base wouldn't have him.

    Oakland?

    Parent

    Evil Empire (none / 0) (#4)
    by CST on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 01:38:18 PM EST
    "The Yankees lead the Red Sox by 3.5 games"

    I suppose this means you are rooting for WWIII

    Is it football season yet?  At least I have Tom Brady to look forward to.

    seen this? (none / 0) (#5)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 01:40:05 PM EST
     

    Fine cotton business paper: $11

    Inkjet printer: $35

    1940 Royal Model KMM manual typewriter: $10

    2 Shilling coin: $1

    Pilot Varsity fountain pen: $3

    Punkin' the Birthers: Priceless

    Good news/bad news (none / 0) (#6)
    by andgarden on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 01:40:46 PM EST
    CNN blasts in the gym, and (good news) the improving economy is getting lots of play. Bad news: CNN is also focusing on its unscientific web survey.

    sorry, no thread hijacking intended (none / 0) (#19)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:08:58 PM EST
    but in the other thread someone was talking about this

    SEIU Thugs Attack a Black Conservative

    heres the point I was trying to make.  
    some people rightly take the first amendment and the right to peaceful assembly very very seriously.

    these people are coming to these events with the mandate to disrupt them.  

    one thing I have discovered in my life - someone is almost always willing to be an even bigger a$$hole than you.  they should keep this in mind.

    Sgt. Crowley? (none / 0) (#21)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:13:42 PM EST


    Parent
    bingo (none / 0) (#22)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:14:34 PM EST


    Parent
    So you condone violence as long as (none / 0) (#67)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 05:14:47 PM EST
    it is your side's violence?

    All the dude was trying to do was get inside the hall...

    The thugs hired by the Demos did a job on him.

    Look at the videos.. He looks 50-60.. a real threat..

    The meeting

    The result.

    Parent

    he came to cause trouble and (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 05:20:03 PM EST
    found some.  excuse me if I dont buy the mean ole Union guys thing.  

    he gets no sympathy from me.  republicans are so used to bulling their way to anything they want.

    push back a little and they run away crying.

    my advise. get used to it.

    Parent

    "run away crying" (5.00 / 2) (#71)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 05:22:19 PM EST
    like the cowardly bullies they are I should have said.

    you want to know my fondest hope?
    that they can trace that phone call from the southern bell threatening to kill people who dont do what she wants.
    I want to see her frog marched.

    Parent

    That works for me (none / 0) (#81)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 06:00:09 PM EST
    now. How about arresting the thugs who attacked this guy in Tampa??

    Parent
    He came to attend the meeting as a voter (1.00 / 1) (#77)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 05:56:43 PM EST
    in Castro's district. He may be in disagreement, but that is his absolute right.

    Like I wrote. You condone violence when it's your side that is passing it out.

    My advice. Don't whine when it is your side's turn.

    Parent

    I think it's obvious (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 06:05:49 PM EST
    who the whiners are here.

    Show up to disrupt a meeting, start screaming slogans as if no one else's opinions matter but your own, and then go cry on YouTube because someone pushed you out in the hall so the meeting could take place without your disruption.

    It's a tactic.  Maybe it will work.  Your crocodile tears are pretty unconvincing though.

    Parent

    ya (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 06:11:23 PM EST
    or call up anon and mewl about freedom of speech when that is what you are attempting to stop and then threaten to kill people if they dont "stop the violence"

    pfft

    sorrrry  not gonna work this time.
     

    Parent

    Made a nice living in sales for 40 years... (none / 0) (#87)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 06:15:47 PM EST
    If you don't know what the customer wants and fears are you will never sell zip.

    The yelling and screaming is no different than the Left did during Vietnam and Iraq and the Repubs did just a poor of job of understanding and answering.

    When things happen like they did in Tampa, the Demos lose just like the Repubs did everytime they cracked a head.

    So the Demos are in good company.

    Parent

    ya (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 06:18:20 PM EST
    the tiny difference being we were trying to stop a war and they are trying to prevent the broadening of the health care safety net.

    pretty much exactly the same.


    Parent

    Doesn't make one single bit of difference,. (none / 0) (#94)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 06:22:24 PM EST
    Results are the same.

    BTW - Did it hurt when you threw your shoulder out of joint trying to pat yourself?

    LOL

    Parent

    Bullying their way? (1.00 / 1) (#79)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 05:59:06 PM EST
    Like the two dudes outside the polling place in Philly?

    LOL

    Parent

    Laughter (none / 0) (#30)
    by MoveThatBus on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:35:34 PM EST
    really is the best medicine. Hard to determine whether Donna Brazile's solo is better than Arianna's, though.

    Brilliant! Btw, MTB, Prima Donna (2.00 / 0) (#38)
    by Cream City on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:48:02 PM EST
    was a hoot to watch last night when CNN revealed the results of its survey/report card on the current administration.  The best grades going to HRC nearly made PD go Berzerkillian.  Her lip curled, briefly.  But she pulled it together to go into gush mode for the SoS.  I look forward to the Youtube that puts together her commentary last year on HRC with her commentary this year.  Surreal.

    Parent
    Cubs tied for 1st! (none / 0) (#36)
    by ruffian on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:45:51 PM EST
    MileHigh Hawkeye, which Rockies-Cubs game are you going to this weekend? I'm always torn in a Cubs-Rocks match, but my Cubbies are in a tight race so I have to pull for them this weekend. But have a good time!

    Tomorrow night. (none / 0) (#40)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:51:50 PM EST
    As long as I don't freeze to death like I did on July 4th, I'll be happy.  

    Should be a great series with both teams having something to play for.  The gang I'm going with are all Midwestern transplants, so the loyalties are definately conflicted.  

    Parent

    Do any (none / 0) (#48)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 03:32:20 PM EST
    of you realize that there are conservatives out there really think that Obama is going to enstate a single payer national program?

    rooms full of them (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 03:34:12 PM EST
    watch the videos of these "meetings"

    Parent
    Yeah (none / 0) (#54)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 03:53:10 PM EST
    I call them the mushroom brigade, the ones that dont think Medicare is a single payer program. The ignorance is astounding.

    Parent
    Oh, I think most of them know who get's the (none / 0) (#69)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 05:17:57 PM EST
    $100 bucks or so premium they send to the Feds every month..

    Parent
    I'm not (none / 0) (#78)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 05:58:30 PM EST
    talking about the people who actually get medicare, i'm talking about conservatives like you who don't seem to realize that medicare is a govt run program.

    Parent
    You are so wrong it is funny (none / 0) (#84)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 06:09:35 PM EST
    First, I am not a conservative but a real sure 'nuf Social Liberal who is for NHC as a single payer system... And I have been saying that in this blog for over 6 years.

    Secondly, as a Senior Citizen I have an up close and personal view of Medicare and have no problems with it, although I recognize that it has some problems that need to be fixed.

    Obama's planS don't address the problems and raise more questions than they answer. That is the source of the general unease and unrest you are now seeing, not paid for workers of "corporations." Frankly I think anyone who believes that make the "birthers" look good.

    Finally, all those that want a single payer system should be trying to recruit those Medicare types rather than running them off. But politics is not known for people doing smart things.

    Parent

    cripes get real (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 06:16:36 PM EST
    if he was going for a single payer system they would be burning crosses at the meetings.


    Parent
    Nothing ventured, nothing gained. (2.00 / 0) (#92)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 06:20:24 PM EST
    The middle class sees what he is proposing as free health care for Obama's base that they must pay for. He should step up, lay SPS out, tell us the cost and have a debate about it.

    Instead he waffles.... that is his lack of management experience showing.

    Parent

    Meh, do you really think so? (none / 0) (#91)
    by dk on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 06:19:00 PM EST
    That's the problem with all of this, IMO.  These wackos would be acting the same way no matter what he did.  That's why it's so disappointing that Obama and Congressional Democrats didn't just go for single payer in the first place.  

    Parent
    I really do (none / 0) (#93)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 06:20:42 PM EST
    if they had a real argument about the "takeover" of healthcare they would definitely run with it.  IMO

    Parent
    I guess I just disagree, (5.00 / 0) (#95)
    by dk on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 06:26:22 PM EST
    especially with the poll showing that 72% of Americans want a government run healthcare plan that everyone has the option to join.

    If Obama and Congressional Democrats had gone for that, they could have had the possibility of getting 3/4th of the country behind them, i.e. much more than are behind them now.  Sure, there would still have been the 28%, of which the most extreme examples we have seen would have been among them.  But as we see, they are out there even with the rollout of the awful plans currently being trotted out.

    Parent

    Well, (1.00 / 0) (#100)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 07:10:18 PM EST
    I'm sorry if I mistook you for a conservative. I know that's the worst insult of all.

    I completely agree with you regarding Obama's plan. Obama seems to think that it's better not to have a plan for anything because that way he can't be held accountable. He's very, very slippery on that account.

    Parent

    hehe (none / 0) (#101)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 07:20:10 PM EST
    Conservative is as conservative does..

    Wait until we get to a national defense issue.

    Of course liberals use to be for a strong national defense... Truman, Kennedy, Scoop Jackson and on and on...

    But now the younger set think the two mutually exclusive.

    Parent

    There (2.00 / 0) (#104)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 07:23:08 PM EST
    is no coherent "liberal" national defense policy as far as I can see right now.

    Parent
    Oh yes (none / 0) (#51)
    by ruffian on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 03:36:45 PM EST
    The same ones that believed he was the most liberal Senator, and thought his offhand remark to Joe the Plumber about spreading some money around meant he is a communist.

    Parent
    Eunice Kennedy Shriver... (none / 0) (#56)
    by desertswine on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 04:05:06 PM EST
    is in critical condition.

    Obama open to (none / 0) (#59)
    by dk on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 04:28:54 PM EST
    Creation of Health Cooperatives.  (h/t Bloomberg)

    President Barack Obama may accept nonprofit health-insurance cooperatives in place of a new government-run plan as long as consumers are guaranteed more choice and competition in buying insurance, a top aide said.
    Yep (none / 0) (#80)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 05:59:22 PM EST
    bargaining it away. No suprises there. And when someone screams about the nonprofit he'll drop that too.

    Parent
    Unfortunately , there are no models for this (none / 0) (#96)
    by shoephone on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 06:30:23 PM EST
    Not as far as choice is concerned, AFAIK. Here in Western Washington we have Group Health -- which for years has been derogatorily referred to as "Group Death" by those who belong to it. Just the other night, while on a health care conference call with Rep. Jay Inslee, one woman detailed for us her terrible experience as a Group Health cancer patient. Going bankrupt and not getting too much of that "choice" being bandied about by Obama and Kent Conrad.

    The only other co-op model I know of is Health Partners, started in Minnesota years ago. Does anyone here from Minnesota have info on how well it works, whether there is much choice of doctor, the quality of the care, etc.?

    Parent

    The (none / 0) (#61)
    by Natal on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 04:36:25 PM EST
    Sept 12th USC vs Ohio State is the game I'm looking forward to.  The winner will be the main challenger to the Gators.  Pryor looks very impressive so far according to all reports.

    That's the game I 'll be watching. (none / 0) (#97)
    by shoephone on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 06:33:37 PM EST
    Will be interesting to see how the Trojans do without Steve Sarkisian, who is now coaching the UW Huskies.

    Parent
    whoa (none / 0) (#83)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 06:08:34 PM EST
    no idea if this is real or not but if it is we are talking nads of steel.

    Studying math and science (none / 0) (#98)
    by Fabian on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 06:50:04 PM EST
    pays off in the end.

    I'd assume that they tested the physics with dead weights before using live subjects.  The margin for error on that is quite small.

    Parent

    The one question (none / 0) (#89)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 06:17:35 PM EST
    that is never asked is this.

    What would a single payer system cost??

    Would a 10% national sales tax pay for it?

    Friday Afternoon Open Thread | 111 comments (111 topical)

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