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Thursday Morning Open Thread

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Blog Related
Posted on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 09:18:07 AM EST
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Ezra Klein is on the teevee (MSNBC) saying that the public option is not important to health care reform. Good to see him finally admit he does not care about the public option.

Additional classic moment - insurance industry hack cites Ezra Klein's defense of insurance industry on show with Ezra on it. Perfect!

This is an Open Thread.

< President Snowe Displeased That Obama Embraced The Public Option | Obama, Bill Clinton And Triangulation >

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    Thursday Morning Open Thread | 97 comments (97 topical)

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    I have not commented here on the (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by inclusiveheart on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 09:26:24 AM EST
    Obama speech last night because I can't use expletives here; and I can't seem to come up with much to say that doesn't include an expletive or five.  Just sayin'.

    You saw no flying ponies last night? (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 09:47:39 AM EST


    Parent
    "No unicorns?" a friend asked me (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by inclusiveheart on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 11:02:35 AM EST
    as I was reviewing the points made in the speech with him last night - complete with all of my best expletives. LoL

    Parent
    Maybe he can skip broder (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by Faust on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 09:38:37 AM EST
    and just become a top lobbyist.

    Today I'm thinking that maybe he could do (5.00 / 2) (#17)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 09:45:10 AM EST
    a lot of things, and he'd probably find none of them appealing.

    Parent
    I love how Ezra cites the sad profits (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 09:56:06 AM EST
    that insurance companies make.  They won't show Waxman their financials but apparently Ezra has them :)

    Are you sure Waxman doesn't have them? (none / 0) (#24)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 10:19:48 AM EST
    We (State of CO) do...

    Parent
    You have the financials on CO (none / 0) (#30)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 10:39:44 AM EST
    insurance companies?  Got a link handy.  If not I'll go look it up but here's what has been going down with Waxman.  No word if his request was met either, just press coverage of insurance companies balking.

    Parent
    Not public yet... (none / 0) (#39)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 10:56:58 AM EST
    ...the data call for compensation, etc. is still being compiled and reviewed.  

    Here is the latest stat report though.

    Parent

    Not much data yet (none / 0) (#53)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 11:18:41 AM EST
    What we want is the breakout on "losses"

    Parent
    Not my area... (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 12:01:58 PM EST
    ...I've got bills to write, regs to draft and exams to conduct.  

    The number crunchers are hard at work on it though.

    Parent

    I don't know (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 10:29:33 AM EST
    but I'm terrified.

    Just for fun last night and in the spirit of health insurance deform, I decided to fill out the Washington State health insurance questionnaire.

    I was utterly shocked. As it turns out, I have 3 conditions that combined -- if I were shopping today -- make me ineligible for insurance on the individual market in Washington state.  If my individual insurer were, to say, bail like they did several years ago, I'd have to go into the high risk pool....and the premiums there are UUUUGLY!

    I went to bed with another panic attack, didn't sleep a wink. Not a wink.

    And I wake up here to the post-mortem on a fail.  Is it too early to drink?

    Cheer up... (5.00 / 2) (#32)
    by desertswine on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 10:44:26 AM EST
    "I drink too much. The last time I gave a urine sample it had an olive in it." - Rodney Dangerfield

    Parent
    Don't laugh (none / 0) (#34)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 10:47:11 AM EST
    at the rate I'm going, that'll be me someday. ;-).

    Parent
    A new (none / 0) (#36)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 10:51:24 AM EST
    definition of self-preservation in these trying times.  Pickle yourself.

    Parent
    BTW, Tracy (none / 0) (#37)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 10:55:26 AM EST
    one of those huge high scoring medical conditions was migraine -- 110 points out of the 325 that they allow before they put your app in the dust bin.....shoot, Type II diabetes (which thankfully I don't have) only scores between 122 and 206.

    I hope you've seen the doctor and that you got your migraine meds.

    Parent

    Hmmmm (none / 0) (#40)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 10:57:41 AM EST
    So many healthcare providers act like you're being a bawl baby whining about migraine.  At least the military healthcare providers act that way.  I wonder what the increased risks are?  Stroke?

    Parent
    Stroke, heart disease... (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 11:03:43 AM EST
    ...PAD, any number of circulatory related things.  

    Unfortunately for those of us who suffer from migraines, they are still a medical mystery for the most part.  And, people have no idea of how devistating they can be unless they suffer also suffer from them.  

    Most people have the attitude that it's "just a headache".  Yeaaaaaah right--talk to me when you get a headache that makes you want to chop your head off just so the pain will stop.

    Parent

    I've never wanted to chop my head off (none / 0) (#46)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 11:06:24 AM EST
    I've just wanted to drill into my temple and my eye socket.  All I can think is if I just remove those areas, all will be fine.

    Parent
    The meds (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 11:04:50 AM EST
    are expensive.  Mine are about $150 for 6 pills.  Many of the prophylactics are also really expensive.  And if you see a neuro weekly (which I don't) or whatever, it adds up.

    But yes, for those who have aura, stroke risk is increased.

    Yes, migraine sufferers get a bad rap.

    Parent

    Risk for stroke is higher (none / 0) (#43)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 11:02:45 AM EST
    Neurological damage to coordination possible.  Not high risk factors though, only a couple of percent.  Must be the cost of the effective meds and not the crap the military tries to send you home with until you are puking on the children.

    Parent
    You can now (none / 0) (#52)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 11:15:13 AM EST
    get Imitrex for cheap.  It's generic.

    I use Maxalt, still expensive, although once my insurance flux is over, I'm going to speak with my doc about trying Imitrex.

    Parent

    Reading recommend for migraine (none / 0) (#55)
    by Dadler on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 11:24:07 AM EST
    I've plugged Dr. John Sarno before, as he healed me of variety of things -- or, I should say, taught me, essentially, to heal myself.  Ten years ago, I would've fallen most likely into the fibromyalgia category, with several severe pain syndromes.  But then I read Sarno's books on mind-body/psychosomatic medicine, and I was helped far beyond anything any doctor had ever done -- mostly doctors couldn't do a thing with my sever back pain, leg pain, rashes, gastrointestinal stuff, you name it, and I'd had this stuff from the time I was a child.  What you might find especially interesting is how much psychosomatic medicine was developing, much of it working with suffering veterans, before the "take a pill for everything" industry paradigm took over in the 50's.  I've been derided for touting this good doctor, but I have a feeling, Tracy, you really might be helped by him.  I had a friend last year who couldn't walk more than five minutes without being debilitated by leg and back pain, that her doctors had no clue how to treat or even diagnose properly.  I gave her the Dr.'s books, some CD's I had, and within a few weeks to a month she had her life back.  Now, not everyone can accept that unconscious emotions can be the cause of physical symptoms, but I know they were for me, and with your situation, I could see it.  Take a chance, it's just education and knowledge, but for many people it works.  And Sarno is not some new-age kook, he is a guy who is still, to this day, treating patients with amazing success at NYU Medical Center.

    Another link to a review of Sarno.

    20/20 story about Sarno from a few years ago.  Now he is focused on back pain, but Sarno has discovered many other pain syndromes related to this, including, he believes, migraines.  (And I usually can't stand John Stossell, but here he is spot on.)

    Parent

    and don't be fooled... (none / 0) (#57)
    by Dadler on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 11:25:36 AM EST
    ...by the back pain focus, as i said. Sarno has come to see things like migraines as part of the syndrome, as well as other symptoms.

    Parent
    The human body (and mind)... (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 11:33:14 AM EST
    ...can adjust to almost anything.  I've learned how to make my mind ignore a lot of pain out of many years of practice and necessity.  Heck, I've even had emergency surgery without any anesthetic (general or local).  But the "mind over pain" technique doesn't work with migraines, at least in my case.  

    Parent
    it's not really mind over pain (none / 0) (#66)
    by Dadler on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 12:05:04 PM EST
    as much as your conscious mind over your subconscious.  i would urge you to read the book simply for the incredible, and paradigm shifting knowledge, it provides.  i can only speak from my experience.  and my experience was doctors had no clue about my multiple debilitating pain symptoms.  then i read sarno, and the knowledge i gained was my healing because psychosomatic medicine (or mind-body, a moniker which comes with less prejudice against it) is about understanding WHY the pain is happening (noxious, subconscious emotions).  and i know it was the proper diagnosis because, frankly, you don't get rid of what i have WITHOUT the proper diagnosis.  

    it is really all about the conscious mind vs. the unconscious mind -- the rational, civilized part of the brain (the cortex) that has evolved more recently, and the "caveman" part of the brain (the subcortex) that was there from the relative beginning.  think about the conscious stress and rage you feel sometimes, then imagine how much greater rage exists buried in the subconcious -- whether from childhood trauma, normal life stress, or both.  your brain is trying to protect you with this pain, because if you didn't have that pain to consume you with, you would have all those noxious emotions in the subconcsious trying to surface, and those emotions, the rational brain knows, cannot come to the surface or you will be a raging maniac, and society does not tolerate that.

    think of it this way.  if you tell people that you have a broken ankle and need help with certain things, everyone is there to be symapthetic and helpful.  tell them you are having emotional troubles and noxious feelings tearing at you, and people will do their best to avoid you.  the brain knows this, and tho is seems counterintuitive, the brain would rather you suffer pain, which is acceptable, than emotional rage and pain, which, largely, is not acceptable in society.

    anyway, i appreaciate your situation, believe me, and i don't want to sound like i know better.  i am only citing my own, quite astonishing experience being healed of many different pain symptoms, headaches included (tho that was never my main symptom), by nothing more than understanding the nature of the pain.  that knowledge told my brain, the jig is up, i understand why this is happening, and it stopped happening with regularity.  still comes back sometimes, but i can make it go away essentially.

    Sadly, many people reject the diagnosis immediately as insulting, or somehow implying that they are imagining it.  Nothing could be further from the truth.  The pain is real, obviously, the causes of it are what is truly different.  Many people, as well, who do accept it, might also need some therapy to talk through issues that are at the root of their pain and suffering.

    take it for what it's worth, which was a lot for me, and i wish you nothing but the best.

    Parent

    Nor mine (none / 0) (#60)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 11:44:41 AM EST
    and I've heard way too many times that "it's all in my head" and I know factually it's not true.  

    I'm glad Sarno helped you though.

    Parent

    all in your head (none / 0) (#67)
    by Dadler on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 12:07:33 PM EST
    that is why so many people reject this diagnosis without even thinking or investigating further, because they assume it means they are imagining it.

    the brain controls EVERYTHING in your body, and the idea that it can initiate pain as a protective mechanism is just too paradigm-challenging for many to accept.

    but it works, and it doesn't work by accident, it works because it is the correct diagnosis.

    and it is nothing but knowledge.  it is not pills, or regimens of exercise, or anything but reading.  can't hurt to read, can it?

    Parent

    Well we know what sets my migraines off (none / 0) (#86)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 01:52:16 PM EST
    usually allergy related.  And I have asthma too and a rast blood test showing that I'm deathly allergic to alternaria. So I know most of the cause, and I'm doing sublingual allergen  exposure.  I don't know what to call it.  I can't get allergy shots because I'd probably go into shock, but the sublingual stuff is Okay.  I had a migraine about an hour after doing the sublingual every day for a week the first week.  But I had meds too.  That has subsided.  I feel like crap though, I suppose that means that I am being exposed.  I am having a reaction, and the reaction is lessening.  I have so many drugs though right now.  Everything allergy and asthma you can fathom.  They threw the kitchen sink at me in order to do this sublingual exposure thing.  I had to get an epi pen too.  Almost thought I was going to have to use it the first day.  But my reaction to the sublingual is subsiding. My doctor estimates that for those it works on, it takes about two years to get the full benefit.  My asthma is bad here though and he fears scarring to my lungs if he can't find something to downgrade my allergic reactions.  And then I got the flippin flu two weeks into it.....Gawd....crap.  But over now.  I was going to buy my husband some Burberry cologne last year too and I sprayed it on my wrist to get a better sniff and holy cow. I wear a lot of different perfumes so I'm not sensitive to smells per se. We were on a shopping expedition so I wasn't in a position to go home immediately, but something in that cologne sets a migraine off in me right now and it isn't a little one. It's major. I'm so glad that I sprayed it on myself though because it probably would have taken me ages to figure out what was setting them off if my husband was coming and going and wearing the stuff.

    Parent
    My triggers... (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 02:00:28 PM EST
    ...are mainly stress and weather related.  But scents are a big one with me too.  Sometimes just stepping inside someplace like Nordstrom's will give me an instant migraine.  And if someone near me is wearing any sort of rose based perfume, forget about it.  

    I do like my Burberry cologne though!

    Parent

    I may never smell Burberry again (none / 0) (#88)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 02:10:12 PM EST
    but I will never forget exactly how it smells.  It is the nectar of Satan :)

    Parent
    LOL... (none / 0) (#92)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 02:26:07 PM EST
    ...that fitting for me--or so I've been told!  

    Did you have such bad allergy/asthma problems out here?  I know my allergies (dust, mold, grass, ragweed) were much worse in Iowa.  Maybe it's the dry air out here or maybe I've outgrown them.

    Parent

    When I was a kid (none / 0) (#93)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 03:04:32 PM EST
    and the inversion in Colorado Springs was really bad, I did then.  Since introducing ethanol and getting that cleaned up, no.  It's funny how you grow up and subconsiously become accustom to certain realities you live with without even realizing it. Before I even knew I was allergic to alternaria I knew if I mowed the lawn I needed to go inside immediately afterwards and take two benedryl and shower.  That is just about the only place alternaria is real prevalent in Colorado.  I love to garden though and just digging around a flowerbed never posed a problem.  It does here but I adapt.  I do more flowerboxes, and containers, and grow boxes....you don't have to deal with thatch and the alternaria never really gets a good place to hang.  It loves carpets though....hence, all the carpets in this house are gone. I think my grandma Vera may have also been allergic to it.  When she was younger she used to have to be hospitalized when they were plowing the fields up.  She was severly ill every year when they did this.  She could not convince my grandfather to sell the ranch and move to town so she ditched him.  She moved into town alone and got a job as a tailor, and he followed her when he got lonely I guess and brought her a new refrigerator :) Her allergist convinced her to give up carpet and she did except this one patch in her livingroom.  When she was much older though I had to shampoo it with an anti allergen every four months or so or her asthma would get much worse.  I was so happy to be close to home then and able to help out.  Alternaria likes to grow on the underside of carpeting.

    Parent
    Since they are vascular in nature (none / 0) (#48)
    by cawaltz on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 11:10:19 AM EST
    stroke would be a good guess. I'm curious if cluster headaches(more common in the male species) gets the same scoring or if because this is a disease that strikes women more often the insurance companies took the opportunity to discriminate.....again.

    Parent
    Nooop (none / 0) (#50)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 11:13:59 AM EST
    Cluster headaches are not even listed that I can tell.

    Parent
    Figures (none / 0) (#54)
    by cawaltz on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 11:21:46 AM EST
    The whole entire scoring thing is sick and ought to be everyone's wake up call that we need an option that doesn't say sick people don't deserve affordable care because they ain't profitable.

    Parent
    do you have a link to the test (none / 0) (#41)
    by nycstray on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 10:59:28 AM EST
    and a zip code we could use if it needs one?

    Parent
    It's Washington state specific (none / 0) (#47)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 11:09:37 AM EST
    And it's been revised for October.  I looked at the revised one.

    Oh, and it's independent of the health insurance debacle.  This is just what WA state lets insurers ask now.

    We do have a semi "public option," but for high risk participants who have been denied individual insurance, and is administered by First Choice.

    Parent

    And forgive (none / 0) (#49)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 11:10:41 AM EST
    my horrible editing.  As I've said above, I literally didn't sleep last night worrying about my health insurance future.  So, for today, at least, I have an excuse.

    Parent
    Thanks! (none / 0) (#61)
    by nycstray on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 11:44:51 AM EST
    I was just curious as to what they were scoring on as I'm guessing they're prob fairly standard.

    I can sympathize as I've lost a bit of sleep regarding my health care future. . . .

    Parent

    HMO stocks rise after Obama speech (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by Dadler on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 10:32:34 AM EST
    No "game changers" seen by industry.  Good for them, bad for us.

    Ana Gupte, a Sanford Bernstein analyst, said in a research note she was "even more confident after the Obama speech that the legislative outcomes will be moderate with no threat of a Medicare-like public plan."

    Kind of silly from Gupte (none / 0) (#29)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 10:33:44 AM EST
    with all due respect.

    That is like betting on a Sunday game at this point.

    Parent

    Just checked into the (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by oculus on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 10:49:46 AM EST
    Hotel Armando.

    Everybody must go read wilbur (5.00 / 2) (#71)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 12:55:27 PM EST
    on the frontpage of Orange as he lays out the evolution of the Twitch.

    good lord (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 01:01:33 PM EST
    "ravage your sister"

    unbelievable.

    Parent

    The ending is the best part though (5.00 / 2) (#74)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 01:05:28 PM EST
    EVOLVES TO

    Ezra Klein

    As idiotic as the twitch is, it looks like it is going to doom the public option  


    Parent

    David Broder (none / 0) (#77)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 01:17:41 PM EST
    This is our town Mr. Obama and we don't appreciate you twitching in it :)  It's hysterical

    Parent
    about the twitch (none / 0) (#81)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 01:26:04 PM EST
    a friend of mine used to call that the "crazy eye".
    like this guy
    he always said never get into a bar fight with someone with the crazy eye twitch.

    clearly if looks could kill the guy would have been vaporized in his seat.

    Parent

    I've had to read it three times now (5.00 / 2) (#76)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 01:15:03 PM EST
    It's funnier every time.  And Chris Mathews, "I'm a lunch bucket kind of guy, I've been in bars, I have a sister."

    Parent
    I almost peed (5.00 / 2) (#78)
    by CST on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 01:17:55 PM EST
    reading that.  Hilarious.

    Parent
    amazing (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 01:32:10 PM EST
    Hubble image

    Ezra is the voice of sanity (none / 0) (#2)
    by lilburro on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 09:32:07 AM EST
    and utter political stupidity.  What the hell does he think he's doing???

    His careeer path is set (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 09:33:27 AM EST
    50 years from now, the progressives of that period will refer to him as the Dean of the Beltway.

    We'll be long gone by then of course.

    Parent

    but when they refer to (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 09:34:32 AM EST
    "high Kleinism" how will they know if it refers to Ezra or Joe?

    Parent
    Ezra will easily surpass Joe (none / 0) (#6)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 09:35:50 AM EST
    It's Broder who he wants to be.

    Parent
    heh (none / 0) (#19)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 09:46:55 AM EST
    that must chap Joes a$$.
    I hope so.

    Parent
    I think he's got about a year on me (5.00 / 3) (#22)
    by andgarden on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 10:02:02 AM EST
    So I'm going to be living with this for a while. . .

    Parent
    I will think of him (none / 0) (#7)
    by lilburro on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 09:35:54 AM EST
    as the new Mark Penn.

    Parent
    Nah (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 09:36:24 AM EST
    Mark Penn is more honest about what he is.

    Parent
    Still both (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by lilburro on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 09:39:28 AM EST
    are sh*tty consultants.

    Parent
    one thing I would really like (none / 0) (#4)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 09:33:36 AM EST
    to have heard last night was to hear him say the opponents of reform are being bought by big pharma and the insurance industry.

    possibly because many of them are democrats we did not hear that.

    uhhhhh (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by cawaltz on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 10:10:43 AM EST
    that probably wouldn't have been wise considering HE got plenty of money from the industry and it appears to have bought them access to his office to make deals.

    Parent
    Yup (none / 0) (#12)
    by ruffian on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 09:38:55 AM EST
    No one can speak the truth of that in the halls of Congress. Therein lies the tale.

    Parent
    See Somberby today (none / 0) (#28)
    by ruffian on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 10:32:42 AM EST
    at Daily Howler. Good analysis relating to that point.

    Parent
    Off and running (none / 0) (#8)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 09:36:05 AM EST


    Is it at all possible... (none / 0) (#9)
    by katiebird on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 09:36:10 AM EST
    That the option for immediate catastrophic insurance (from who?) could end up being the real-public-option-foot-in-the-door?  What if they just gradually expanded what THAT covers?

    I don't know (none / 0) (#13)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 09:38:55 AM EST
    Because I don't even know who would provide it and would like to know but don't know....I don't know.  I trust nobody to morph anything into some great good these days.  But if they do Ezra Klein will take credit for it somehow.

    Parent
    That plan (or whatever) could have 4 years (none / 0) (#15)
    by katiebird on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 09:42:26 AM EST
    Of desperate people joining up.  What if they end up CHOOSING to stick with it?  It seems like they could save a lot of paper-work just morphing that into the public plan.

    Parent
    I wondered that to (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 09:46:04 AM EST
    but since its just catastrophic coverage it seems like it may not be structured to allow or at least promote that.

    and it may be set up to only be temporary, right?

    Parent

    If you and I were working (none / 0) (#16)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 09:43:46 AM EST
    at instituting and administering that plan....certainly :)

    Parent
    What Obama was describing was IMO (none / 0) (#51)
    by MO Blue on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 11:14:28 AM EST
    catastrophic coverage and not coverage that would help you on a regular basis.

    In the meantime, for those Americans who can't get insurance today because they have preexisting medical conditions, we will immediately offer low-cost coverage that will protect you against financial ruin if you become seriously ill.

    Also, a pool consisting of high risk individuals would not be cost effective for others.

    Parent

    That (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 11:25:31 AM EST
    is exactly what he is describing. Catastrophic coverage.

    And BTW, Washington state has a high risk pool.  YOUCH

    This is the pool for people who have been turned down by the individual market.

    Parent

    Yes but, it's the possibility of catastrophe (none / 0) (#62)
    by katiebird on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 11:47:02 AM EST
    That is keeping me in my incredibly expensive COBRA plan -- at the prices I'm paying, I could easily cover the routine stuff (and have money left to save for possible deductibles)

    Assuming the catastrophic insurance was cheap, then it could be a great thing.

    Parent

    Cheap has different meanings (none / 0) (#80)
    by MO Blue on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 01:25:04 PM EST
    to different folks. I would imagine that Obama's definition of the word would be quite different than someone who is trying to raise a family on say $50,000 a year.

    A friend of mine has individual catastrophic coverage with a $10,000 deductible and her premiums are not all that bad. She is on medicine for high blood pressure so there is some pre-existing involved.

    If you do not have a pre-existing condition or at least not a more serious one, you might be able to find something cheaper than COBRA if you are willing to self-insure for $10,000.

    Parent

    Another "evolving candidate" (none / 0) (#25)
    by andgarden on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 10:20:56 AM EST
    in Virginia.

    But I'm OK with this. I'd rather that the guy "we brought" be the one that evolved. (Shades of my pal Bob Casey, Jr).

    Meh (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by cawaltz on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 10:41:28 AM EST
    Anything has got to be better than his opposition. The guy advocated that only married couples should be allowed access to birth control and that women belong at home, not in the workspace. I'll pick Deeds over Captain Caveman in a heartbeat.

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    Funny to see you of all people write that (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by andgarden on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 10:45:23 AM EST
    Obviously I would vote for Deeds if I lived in Virginia.

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    What can I tell you I'm not a partisan (none / 0) (#38)
    by cawaltz on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 10:56:04 AM EST
    or an idiot and am all about that self interest thing. I consider McDonnell's views in his thesis extreme and archaic, not to mention harmful to my gender. While I understand he has walked back his views on women in the workspace I am not stupid enough to believe that he may only be doing so for the sake of politics.

    I do wish Deeds would step up his game. I've seen tons of ads against him and little to none for him in this region of Virginia. He'd be doing himself a favor if he made some of McDonnells views more readily apparent. Before I read about his thesis I was solidly in the "maybe I'll just flip a coin" camp because neither of these guys makes me swoon.

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    I wish the president would up-date himself. (none / 0) (#59)
    by KeysDan on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 11:38:33 AM EST
    Speaking to the American Nursing Association about health care, he stated that he "loves nurses" and "Michelle knows about it".  Since I assume he was referring to women, he needs to know that there are many male nurses, and, in fact, many more than in the past.

    Your assumption seems to be flawed (none / 0) (#63)
    by cawaltz on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 11:51:54 AM EST
    and I think you are reading too much into the statements you just made. Why in the owrld would "loving nurses" necessarily preclude loving the male ones?(Heck when I'm sick I love anyone who is working to help me feel better be they male or female) Additionally, he made the comment regarding Michelle because her job was hospital administrator. It stands to reason a hospital administrator would be very familiar with both the good and bad involved with nursing. I truly don't think he was trying to be sexist with the examples you have given.

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    Your assumption about the (none / 0) (#68)
    by KeysDan on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 12:09:14 PM EST
    Michelle reference seems like an out of context stretch.  

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    Obama to ANA (none / 0) (#69)
    by KeysDan on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 12:17:36 PM EST
    "I just love nurses. I don't know what it is. You know, I love--I love nurses.  Michelle knows about it; its OK"  

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    Starting into harvest season (none / 0) (#64)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 11:58:54 AM EST
    in Cali wine country.

    Should be a really good year for reds, especially.

    Good news... (none / 0) (#70)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 12:54:04 PM EST
    ...for you Percy Harvin fans out there...

    The Vikings cut their leading receiver from last year.

    With first-round draft pick Percy Harvin joining the team, the Vikings had fewer opportunities for Wade. He is starting his seventh year in the NFL.
    Poor Melanie Oudin (none / 0) (#73)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 01:04:13 PM EST
    First she gets kicked out of her NYC hotel room, then loses her match in the US Open semi's last night and now has to deal with this...

    The father of American tennis sensation Melanie Oudin is reportedly seeking a divorce from her mother, alleging Leslie Oudin had an affair with the teenager's coach.

    That's an awful lot for a 17 year old to handle.

    The hotel sent her packing (none / 0) (#75)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 01:08:21 PM EST
    because her res ran out.  The hotel sent her packing in this economy because her res ran out and they were booked?  Time to buy a new arrival a free suite in a competitor hotel.  What a bunch of idiots

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    Football starts tonight (none / 0) (#79)
    by CST on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 01:20:34 PM EST
    Although the important game isn't until Monday.

    Looking forward to Tom & Co. crushing the Bills.

    Until then, go Steelers?

    In a related note (none / 0) (#83)
    by CST on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 01:33:19 PM EST
    T.O. is playing for the Bills?!?!

    Really?

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    Buffalo still has a team? (none / 0) (#84)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 01:40:38 PM EST
    I thought they'd moved to Canada or something...

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    Russert (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 01:43:40 PM EST
    just rolled in his grave

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    They do... (none / 0) (#89)
    by kdog on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 02:13:34 PM EST
    and draw better than Jacksonville, in Buffalo or Toronto!

    Even though they are bitter AFC East rivals, I can't help but have a soft spot for old Buffalo...that town deserves a title at some point, football gods willing.  Hopefully right after the J-E-T-S Jets Jets Jets win one!

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    It's funny (none / 0) (#90)
    by CST on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 02:19:37 PM EST
    I don't even really consider any of the AFC East teams bitter rivals anymore.  I mean, don't get me wrong, I still hate them all, especially the Jets.  I just don't really consider them rivals.  If I had to pick one team I truly hate it would be the Colts.  I know Steelers fans really hate the Pats, but I don't feel a need to hate the Steelers.  Two reasons, #1 - they always lose against us when it counts, #2 - I lived in Pitt for 4 years, one of them during a Superbowl win.  It's hard to hate on a team when the entire city is in euphoria.  Neither of their recent Superbowl victories went through the Pats, always around.

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    I probably hate the Pats... (none / 0) (#95)
    by kdog on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 03:19:38 PM EST
    the most now with all the recent animosity...but it was always the Dolphins I hated with a passion growing up...I still can't stand the sight of whiny Dan Marino.

    Even though the Bills pounded on Gang Green more than anybody growing up, I just couldn't muster the same hatred for them...actually rooted for 'em against the NY Giants in the Norwood game.

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    So greedy! (none / 0) (#91)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 02:21:40 PM EST
    Your Jets already have a title--and how well I remember that, beating my beloved Colts and all.  

    What about the poor Vikings or the Seachickens?!!11?  How long do those poor fans have to suffer?

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    I was negative 8... (none / 0) (#94)
    by kdog on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 03:16:54 PM EST
    when the Jets won man...let me get one in my lifetime:)

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    Well... (none / 0) (#96)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 03:28:17 PM EST
    ...I will be rooting for my man Shonn to tear it up this year.  

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    He looks good... (none / 0) (#97)
    by kdog on Thu Sep 10, 2009 at 03:48:50 PM EST
    but they gotta get Leon Washington the ball and often...that guy is spectacular...opportunities will be limited, but I won't be suprised to see Shonn and Leon being the one-two punch by next season.

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    Thursday Morning Open Thread | 97 comments (97 topical)

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