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Eau de Public Option

The Obama Administration's Don Draper, David Axelrod, is working on the pitch for the Obama Administration's capitulation on the public option. Here's his first pass:

White House adviser David Axelrod tells ABC News that what remains of Obama's desire for a public option is largely theoretical. "The spirit that led him to support a public option is still very much at play here and so you know he wants competition. He wants choice."

(Emphasis supplied.) Hmm. Not bad. But needs a little work, Ax. You'll be working on this over Labor Day Weekend I take it? Let's see some artwork on that as well.

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    The spirit? (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by waldenpond on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:13:43 PM EST
    Oh good grief, could they be any more wishy-washy.  IF Obama kicks PO, I still think Reid and Pelose reassured Obama at their meeting yesterday that the Progressive Caucus is ready to cave.

    Reid and Pelosi are wrong (none / 0) (#47)
    by shoephone on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:41:28 PM EST
    1. Reid doesn't exactly have a "progessive caucus" in the Senate.

    2. Woolsey, House co-chair of PC, has, not to my knowledge, wavered on the public option. And at last night's Town Hall meeting in Seattle, McDermott was adamant that no bill will pass without a public option because the PC would vote against it.

    What we will be left with is no bill. Obama will have failed. The Republicans will emerge emboldened.

    Parent
    dont worry (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:52:42 PM EST
    he will just make a speech:

    Obama to Address Joint Session of Congress

    Here's how President Obama intends to use his big megaphone: He'll address a joint session of Congress in prime time on September 9th on his plans for health care reform.

    Parent

    Like I said, (none / 0) (#58)
    by andgarden on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:56:25 PM EST
    his staff had  better come prepared with perfume atomizers.

    Parent
    Or Febreze... (5.00 / 2) (#61)
    by Anne on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 03:04:02 PM EST
    I'm sure they could swing a great rate for buying in bulk.  If enough could be made in time.

    Another reason I'm glad I will be on vacation next week.  Ocean breezes, sun tan lotion (SPF70) and steamed crabs will be what I am breathing in.  :-)

     

    Parent

    I don't know Anne (5.00 / 2) (#129)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 04:21:52 PM EST
    It works well battling the mild stinkiness of the domesticated dog, but I don't know how good the stuff is when the odors are Fox and Hen House.

    Parent
    or (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 03:17:24 PM EST
    one of these

    Parent
    All hail the progressive caucus (5.00 / 3) (#82)
    by cawaltz on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 03:27:25 PM EST
    the only thing standing between us and insanity.

    I need to adopt one of these critters since I have a blue dog who wants co ops in my district.

    Parent

    If (none / 0) (#56)
    by waldenpond on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:55:12 PM EST
    I said if Obama dumps the PO, that he would have been told he will have enough votes.  I don't believe he would put himself out there if he didn't have cover.  I don't think he wants a fight with anyone.  Also, if Obama stays away from the PO in his speech, it means the Progressives are holding firm.

    Parent
    But he can't sell the public option (none / 0) (#71)
    by shoephone on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 03:19:25 PM EST
    if he "stays away from [it]" in his speech.

    Parent
    The PO is dead.... (none / 0) (#72)
    by mikeel on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 03:19:45 PM EST
    George Stephanopoulos is saying "death with dignity" to the public option.

    I'm still of the opinion you can still get good incremental reform.  Are we willing to give up on Obama and usher in a new Republican era?

    Do you want Jeff Sessions blocking judicial appointees, including the next couple Supreme Court replacements?

    Just some of the consequences of abandoning Obama.  There are many more.

    Unless someone else can step up in 2012, we have to stick together.

    Parent

    Abandoning Obama? (5.00 / 15) (#75)
    by Democratic Cat on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 03:23:13 PM EST
    Excuse me, but he has abandoned us.

    Parent
    Word. n/t (5.00 / 5) (#80)
    by shoephone on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 03:27:20 PM EST
    Amen (5.00 / 4) (#127)
    by kmblue on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 04:17:55 PM EST
    and I am a witness

    Parent
    Incremental reform... (5.00 / 8) (#85)
    by shoephone on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 03:30:13 PM EST
    Please tell that to the 47 million uninsured.

    Oh yeah, but wait -- I am one of those.

    With all due respect: Screw your incrementalism.

    Parent

    Incremental reform? (5.00 / 4) (#143)
    by Matt v on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 04:46:02 PM EST
    More like an incremental death sentence for the uninsured. And atomizers? Nonsense.  What's needed is a strong detergent to wash away Obama's oiliness. I mean, this guy puts teflon to shame.

    Parent
    As if (5.00 / 3) (#91)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 03:36:43 PM EST
    we could "abandon" someone we never really had.

    Parent
    Then, for the love of God, could he (5.00 / 11) (#100)
    by Anne on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 03:42:59 PM EST
    at least do a credible impression of being a Democrat?  I think Obama is on the edge of sealing his fate, and I don't think he is going to be at all pleased with the legacy he is creating.  But who knows?  This is a man with a fondness for comparing himself to Lincoln and FDR, so it's possible that reality won't be an issue for someone who is already a legend in his own mind.

    I have to tell you that I am coming to believe that it doesn't matter one whit what I think, or how I feel, or what I want, or how many calls I make to my representatives or letters I send to the newspaper; I don't even feel that my vote particularly matters anymore, not on a national level.  For the first time since I started voting I actually declined to honor any candidate for president with my vote - none of them were worthy of it.

    Do I want Jeff Sessions heading up the Judiciary Committee?  Of course not. But when I start to imagine Obama giving the Senate a SC nominee that the Republicans will find acceptable - never mind what the Democrats want - I begin to wonder whether there is really that much of an advantage having this Democrat as president.  Sotomayor-for-Souter was one thing, but Justice Stevens is a real liberal, and replacing him with anyone who cannot carry on Stevens' liberal philosophy is not going to help keep those 5-4 decisions from going the other way.

    I won't vote for Republicans or lift a finger to help elect them in retaliation for the massive betrayal I feel, but I'm very close to deciding that my energy and attention and emotion would be better spent on things I have some control over, and that it's not worth having a stroke over.


    Parent

    Once again, your capture perfectly (5.00 / 2) (#114)
    by Cream City on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 03:54:02 PM EST
    my despair about the direction of the Dems, Obama, the country.  I'm figuring out how to be a former activist -- and how to not bash myself for all the time (and money) wasted in working for parties and pols, thinking that it would make a difference.

    I find that I cannot quite give up all hope yet, or I wouldn't even bother to be here but would just use the internet toobz for online shopping.

    Parent

    The only thing I have come up (5.00 / 5) (#123)
    by MO Blue on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 04:09:21 PM EST
    with is that I will only support primaries against current Democratic incumbents. I'm ready to start my own "Throw the Bums Out" party.

     

    Parent

    I bow (5.00 / 3) (#128)
    by kmblue on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 04:21:12 PM EST
    to Anne and Cream.  I was in the ER a week Friday--had a seizure (my first evah) and was shipped to hospital while unconscious.

    Just got the bill in today's mail--2,207.

    Parent

    Not sure if that bill is WITH (5.00 / 5) (#130)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 04:29:22 PM EST
    insurance, but if you have no insurance, then talk to the hospital about negotiating the rate down.  They won't do it if you don't ask, but if you ask, they may.

    Hope you're better, and hope the underlying cause of that seizure was relatively benign.

    Parent

    When I did my stint in the CO hospital (5.00 / 2) (#135)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 04:34:23 PM EST
    business office we were open to such things.  Just didn't air that publicly because what if everyone showed up to negotiate.  We also completely ate a suicide attempt that was several hundreds of thousands.  The guys insurance refused payment because it was a suicide attempt.  He shot himself in the stomach with a shotgun....eek!  At the end of the day though they took a look at the fact they would never receive payment for it and that the community was small, knew the story, felt sympathy for the man, and they chose to write the entire thing off.  Put us in the red that year, but it was just a year in the life of real lives.

    Parent
    Negotiate, yes. But (5.00 / 1) (#152)
    by KeysDan on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 05:02:49 PM EST
    do it yourself, do not let the Obama administration negotiate for you, or you will end up owing more than the present bill.

    Parent
    Thanks (none / 0) (#144)
    by kmblue on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 04:46:57 PM EST
    for good advice and kind words. ;)

    Parent
    I bow to you (5.00 / 2) (#133)
    by Cream City on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 04:32:33 PM EST
    for going through a tough time.  As noted here before, I know a bit about seizure disorder, from someone in my family.  Of course, as you only have had one, you do not have the disorder diagnosis -- you are among 10 percent of Americans who only have one seizure and are fine for the rest of their lives.  I hope that will be how it goes for you . . . as this is not a good country or culture for the 2% of Americans who do have chronic seizures.

    I'm betting you had a good doc who gave you pamphlets and such with more info and where to find even more, but if not, and I can help, just ask.

    Now go forth and work on more regular rest, nutrition, etc.  Yeh, right.  So easy to say but so hard to do.  Life happens.

    Parent

    If they won't help you (5.00 / 2) (#134)
    by shoephone on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 04:34:09 PM EST
    tell them you can pay up to 40% of the total bill. I have it on good authority from a lawyer who worked in senior services that 40% is the magic number for them to say "okay."

    Parent
    sort of suggests (none / 0) (#136)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 04:36:30 PM EST
    a 60% markup doesnt it?

    Parent
    Insurance algorhythems (5.00 / 2) (#154)
    by cawaltz on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 05:15:13 PM EST
    I'm sure play their fair share on why the services would be marked up. In order to get payment that covers their costs they need to shoot for 160% the actual cost. That way the insurance companies feel they are getting a "deal" for sending bulk business their way. We're all like a bunch of bleepin' widgets to the market crowd.

    Parent
    That it does! (none / 0) (#138)
    by shoephone on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 04:37:48 PM EST
    Last year I was in the ER (none / 0) (#137)
    by shoephone on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 04:37:13 PM EST
    with severe abdominal pains. Spent three hours there. My final bills totalled... $4,000.

    The system is BROKEN.

    I wish you good things.

    Parent

    again (5.00 / 3) (#147)
    by kmblue on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 04:50:42 PM EST
    I appreciate all the kind words.  Sad but true, when I woke up in the ER my mind immediately went to money.  

    I don't understand the people out there who think anyone can get free treatment at an ER.  

    Parent

    Oh goodie (5.00 / 6) (#5)
    by MO Blue on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:14:03 PM EST
    We will have the choice between high priced, low coverage private insurance or high priced, low coverage private insurance.

    Don't you just love having choices.

    Of course, you will be forced to buy "junk private insurance." So much for choices.

    BUT! (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by nycstray on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:15:48 PM EST
    You get to compare the over-priced plans in a nifty "new" exchange!!

    Parent
    LOL (5.00 / 2) (#15)
    by ruffian on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:20:53 PM EST
    Which you have already been able to do for years at ehealthinsurance.com. I've used it many times. For the supposedly net savvy administration, touting this as new and amazing might be the funniest part yet.


    Parent
    Yup (none / 0) (#31)
    by nycstray on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:29:32 PM EST
    I've been using it to look for coverage in CA. He seems to think it's a shiny new object though . . .

    Parent
    If (none / 0) (#59)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:57:44 PM EST
    you can stand the constant barrage of phone calls.

    Parent
    And it will only cost you (5.00 / 4) (#16)
    by MO Blue on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:22:26 PM EST
    a mere trillion dollars.

    But your tax payer dollars will save the poor insurance industry execs from poverty while they continue to rescind coverage and deny health care.

    Parent

    at least SOME good will come out of it. (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:24:40 PM EST
    the Government won't be pulling the plug on Granny.

    It's okay if Private Enterprise does it /snark.

    Parent

    Fertilizing the roots of healthy capitalism (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 03:56:36 PM EST
    As they have been doing for many years. n/t. (none / 0) (#94)
    by sallywally on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 03:38:29 PM EST
    At least in an exchange, small businesses and (none / 0) (#12)
    by steviez314 on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:19:14 PM EST
    individuals will be able to pool together and get better group rates.

    Or they better!

    Parent

    Has he said that? (none / 0) (#21)
    by nycstray on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:25:19 PM EST
    All I remember hearing is that we can go to one place and do one stop shopping. Like convenience is the key. Haven't heard him talk about it lately . . .

    I'd like to know how much better group rates are, if they are going to offer them. Everything is way too vague, yet we're supposed to 'don't worry, be happy' and STFU.

    Parent

    People still like the FDIC. Let's just rename it (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by steviez314 on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:17:07 PM EST
    the FD&HIC (FD & Health IC) and give it a new charter.

    Well , as long as the spirit is still at play (5.00 / 2) (#9)
    by ruffian on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:18:00 PM EST
    I guess we don't have anything to worry about.

    Ax, you are slipping...you made a self described skinny black guy with a funny name POTUS, and this is the best you can do?

    Axelrod's a great campaigner. (none / 0) (#13)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:20:05 PM EST
    At governance?

    well, not so much.

    Parent

    But at the part of governance (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by ruffian on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:23:44 PM EST
    that is message management, I would expect better.

    Parent
    again (none / 0) (#28)
    by The Last Whimzy on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:27:03 PM EST
    axlrod = matt holliday, but yes, at least matt holliday batted .270 in the american league.

    Parent
    Well hey (5.00 / 7) (#11)
    by Steve M on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:19:03 PM EST
    let's water it down still further to a co-op proposal that the Republicans will all oppose anyway!  Maybe Axelrod can teach a class at the Kennedy School of Government about how to negotiate against yourself.

    They are going to keep floating these trial balloons until the progressives stop screaming bloody murder and fall in line with Ezra Klein.  The task, then, is clear: don't stop screaming.

    Radio silence from him on this (none / 0) (#18)
    by andgarden on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:23:59 PM EST
    Kinda funny.

    Parent
    No co-op Steve (none / 0) (#74)
    by ademption on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 03:23:00 PM EST
    CNN just reported that the administration is in negotiations with Olympia Snowe. In order to get her on board, they'll accept a trigger which she wants, no co-op.

    Also, CNN's Ed Henry reported that the administration is prepared to tell Nancy Pelosi and progressives that they either accept an insurance bill w/o a public option or there will be no insurance bill...

    Parent

    Then I vote for no bill (5.00 / 4) (#83)
    by Democratic Cat on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 03:29:07 PM EST
    Or, I would if I were in Congress or even had a voting representative in Congress.  A bad bill is worse than no bill.

    Parent
    Call your House rep (5.00 / 3) (#88)
    by shoephone on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 03:33:15 PM EST
    and tell them "no bill". They need to hear it loud and strong.

    And I am right there with you. No public option? No bill.

    And goodbye Mr. One-termer.

    Parent

    Oops. No rep? (none / 0) (#89)
    by shoephone on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 03:34:30 PM EST
    You must be in D.C. Sorry.

    Parent
    oh damn. (5.00 / 2) (#86)
    by lilburro on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 03:31:02 PM EST
    I was right about President Snowe.

    I cheated though and read about her involvement in negotiations at Ezra's earlier today.  I thought, this is the best thing he's written for a while.  Lo and behold, they are going to work with President Snowe.

    It does make you wonder if Ezra's getting tips.

    Parent

    I have no doubt that Ezra gets tips (none / 0) (#110)
    by ademption on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 03:52:43 PM EST
    along with other Villagers.  I think they've known what was going to happen for a long time now.

    Thanks for the link. I usually read Ezra but hadn't read that post yet. The article that Ezra links to is very good b/c it explains what Olympia Snowe wants, ie what will eventually pass into law.

    What Snowe wants:

    1. trigger, no public option
    2. provide subsidies for uninsured at 300% threshold
    3. bill's financing come from healthcare dollars. Unclear if she will support tax on employer-provided healthcare benefits.
    4)opposes reconciliation.

    http://www.tnr.com/blog/the-treatment/what-does-olympia-snowe-want

    Parent

    Trigger talk is (5.00 / 4) (#101)
    by MO Blue on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 03:43:56 PM EST
    maintaining the status quo forever. The plans under consideration would not be fully implemented until 2019.

    Under the plan floated by Kerry, a public health care option would only be triggered by private insurance companies failing to meet certain criteria after ten years. Known as the "trigger" in legislative lingo, the idea is vociferously opposed by health care advocates who consider it the death of reform. HufPo

    So the earliest a trigger would kick in is in 2029. Talk about giving the insurance industry license to continue to gorge us in premiums and reduce coverage at will. Then you have this little tidbit:

    "Premiums are high," the New York Democrat said, "and either one or two insurers dominate the market. As we've seen with Medicare part D, a trigger option has so far meant no public option at all."

    Indeed, as Schumer notes, there is a trigger in the Medicare part D program and, to this date, the conditions have never been met for a public option for prescription drug coverage. The standards were set by private market, all but ensuring that they would remain unreachable. Progressive officials working on health care reform worry that should the same system be put in place for insurance coverage, the same result will occur and public health care will never come to pass. HufPo



    Parent
    this is (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by The Last Whimzy on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:25:47 PM EST
    depressing.  whoever replaced the chili peppers mix with the smiths mix on his ipod needs to s-canned.


    LOL. (none / 0) (#49)
    by shoephone on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:47:03 PM EST
    The jazz version:

    Replacing Ornette Coleman's "Change of the Century" with Billy Taylor's version of "Let's Get Away From it All".

    Parent

    lol. (none / 0) (#50)
    by shoephone on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:47:52 PM EST
    The jazz version:

    Replacing Ornette Coleman's "Change of the Century" with Billy Taylor's version of "Let's Get Away From it All".

    Parent

    Nah, Obama needs to get down (none / 0) (#118)
    by Cream City on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 04:03:06 PM EST
    with my people and download some really kick*ss music that makes it impossible to stay sitting down and watching as others do the stomping -- not the Red Hot Chili Peppers but . . . the Red Hot Chili PIPERS!

    No Youtube can quite convey the experience of one of their concerts in person, sadly.  Amazing . . . especially when they line up the pipes and do Motown dance routines.

    Parent

    So (5.00 / 6) (#25)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:26:08 PM EST
    will he run on that in 2012?  I "supported a theoretical public option".

    The artwork will include a J*sus-like halo surrounding the word "theoretical".

    Ooooh, this is an Onion.com article, isn't it.  I'm always the last one to get the joke.

    your post evoked in me (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:30:52 PM EST
    a memory of Buddy Jesus.

    Parent
    Well, he supported a theortical (5.00 / 6) (#45)
    by ruffian on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:40:39 PM EST
    withdrawal from Iraq too. In theory, he's a great president!

    Parent
    i think that's gonna happen (none / 0) (#65)
    by The Last Whimzy on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 03:13:13 PM EST
    David Axlerod (5.00 / 4) (#26)
    by lilburro on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:26:17 PM EST
    you are no Don Draper.  I mean, look at Jon Hamm people.

    Plus, who cares what Axelrod says.  I will wait to hear the public option is dead from the mouth of the President...President Snowe.

    And don't forget (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 03:44:32 PM EST
    co-prez Baucus.
    and co-prez RahmRod

    Parent
    Heh (none / 0) (#27)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:26:59 PM EST
    Actually (none / 0) (#98)
    by lilburro on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 03:40:46 PM EST
    I think we must elevate Snowe to Dictator Snowe, sole Congresswoman and President.

    Parent
    Collins for VP (none / 0) (#125)
    by cawaltz on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 04:14:38 PM EST
    I guess they figure that because these two are so popular they must no some special formula to make people happy or some other 11th dimensional chess move.(rolling eyes)

    Parent
    There are no red and blue states. (none / 0) (#126)
    by lilburro on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 04:17:17 PM EST
    There are only Snowe-y states.

    Parent
    The spirit that lead me to (5.00 / 4) (#35)
    by MO Blue on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:31:09 PM EST
    support the Democratic Party is still very much at play here. Sure hope my spirit pulls the right lever during the next election cycle because my body is staying home.

    I want (none / 0) (#36)
    by The Last Whimzy on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:33:10 PM EST
    choice.

    Parent
    Confused? (none / 0) (#38)
    by MO Blue on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:35:48 PM EST
    Please define what you mean by choice and how it relates to my comment.

    Parent
    axlrod said the president wants choice (5.00 / 3) (#46)
    by The Last Whimzy on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:41:15 PM EST
    i was riffing off your comment thinking about myself in the voting booth looking at two names on the ballot and wishing the choice between the two was more clear.

    Parent
    Maybe he'll have it available in time (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by andgarden on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:36:14 PM EST
    to spray on House Progressives next week.

    Draper, I mean, Axelrod (none / 0) (#42)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:37:36 PM EST
    could use your skill.

    Parent
    Hey, if he wants to summon me (none / 0) (#44)
    by andgarden on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:38:52 PM EST
    to the White House, he can have my number.

    Parent
    Here's what I find sad: (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by steviez314 on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:37:09 PM EST
    That deep down, no matter what happens for the next 4 years, I know that I could not bear to live in a country run by the Lunatic Theocratic Warmongering Party.

    Funny - (5.00 / 2) (#53)
    by lilburro on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:52:12 PM EST
    TPM readers are mad:

    You're part of the problem. I don't expect much from Politico or AP because they're shills for the Republican Party. But I hold TPM to a higher standard. You're getting your readers worked up about some anonymous sources and Axelrod's language (I can't believe you're deconstructing the word "spirit") in order to start the whole hyperventilating-of-progressives cycle again.

    First - higher standard?  bwahahaha.  And the rest of it is funny too.

    What they don't understand (5.00 / 4) (#66)
    by Steve M on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 03:13:43 PM EST
    is that getting people to hyperventilate is a crucial part of the process!  The only way the politicians know that we really care about something is when we get really mad at the suggestion that they may not give it to us.

    We shouldn't be like Redstate and just make stuff up in order to get people agitated, of course.  But if there's two possible ways to interpret a statement like Axelrod's, the politically effective response is to assume he meant it in a bad way and get angry.  We gain absolutely nothing by giving everyone the benefit of the doubt and just sitting on our hands.

    There is this strange belief among certain liberals that unless we keep our mouths shut, the politicians will decide that we're just a bunch of unreasonable ranters and will tune us out.  I'm sure that's true if you take it to the extreme, but these people always want us to live at the other extreme where we never, ever say anything for fear that they'll stop listening.

    Parent

    You usually say what I wish I had said (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 03:21:58 PM EST
    Steve but in this instance the only way the pols know that they can't get away with listening intensely to who gives them the biggest campaign donation is when we are hyperventilating like crazed mother-in-laws.  If only corporations could get one vote for each dollar, pols lives would be so much more manageable.

    Parent
    I resemble that remark! (none / 0) (#81)
    by vicndabx on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 03:27:21 PM EST
    There is this strange belief among certain liberals that unless we keep our mouths shut, the politicians will decide that we're just a bunch of unreasonable ranters and will tune us out.

    Seriously, I was going to reply to your post about screaming up above.   Nothing wrong w/not keeping your mouth shut, I wholeheartedly agree.  However, screaming to the point of where you only hear yourself doesn't allow you to hear other sides tho.  Thus you appear to be what you don't want to be, an unreasonable ranter.  The goal should be clear and fixed, how we get there need not be.

    Parent

    who's screaming here? (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 03:29:18 PM EST
    typed words have no volume

    Parent
    u can't see me but i'm smiling :-) (none / 0) (#102)
    by vicndabx on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 03:44:17 PM EST
    the passion with which you post allows me to "hear" you from NY.

    Parent
    Heh (none / 0) (#115)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 03:54:56 PM EST
    Damn I'm glad someone hears me other than the dogs :)

    Parent
    I hear you (none / 0) (#120)
    by shoephone on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 04:05:25 PM EST
    And I will never tell you to be quiet either.

    Parent
    Man I need an open thread right now too! (none / 0) (#124)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 04:09:31 PM EST
    Between this and who Obama saved (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:52:20 PM EST
    with his stimulus, it is obvious to me he was never ever serious about a public option.  He is for everything being privatized just about as much as declared Republicans no matter how many real people end up hurt, dead, abused, tormented, discarded, cold, and hungry.  I'm sorry, but when I witnessed his choices on the bailout/stimulus it made his declaration in his book that the liberal welfare state won't work anymore suspiciously like this is exactly the President I got.  And today he looks even more so.  He worships corporations and having an elite, he is convinced that this is the way things should be and that's what we will have because the President is not irrelevant.  And come on everyone....when he fights he goes Chicago style...we've all seen that too.  It seems to me though that he'll hide behind wooing a belief that he is irrelevant in order to avoid exposing his true beliefs and agenda that would upset the majority of Americans in this day and age when our lives are dictated by corporations for corporations....and then our pensions and savings are ripped off by corporations for the ruling corporate elite.  This is my opinion of what drives and fuels President Obama's choices until I'm given a reason to think otherwise.  It is also something that David Sirota warned us about as he witnessed first hand who in his entourage Obama coveted, but it was easier at the time to not hear lightening rod David Sirota.

    The Theoretical President (5.00 / 11) (#57)
    by Dr Molly on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:55:34 PM EST
    He theoretically supports true health care reform. And he theoretically supports green energy jobs. And he theoretically supports environmental protection. And government transparency. And regulatin financial markets. And gay rights. And an end to government torture.

    I am so sick of this. I was at a very liberal party the other night and people were just really sick at heart, so bitter and cynical. They've given up on democrats and don't know where to turn.

    Trigger (5.00 / 2) (#62)
    by waldenpond on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 03:07:06 PM EST
    OK, new plan would include a 'trigger'... the insurers are given a couple of years to make sweeping changes and if they don't succeed, a trigger for a puplic option would engage.

    uhhmm... it would be impossible to determine if the insurers met any conditions.

    How to sell to Democrats?  The WH is to tell Pelosi to sign on or get nothing.

    Yes, that's exactly how CNN reported it (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by ademption on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 03:14:04 PM EST
    The Obama administration is focusing on getting Olympia Snowe to sign onto health insurance reform bill and as she said many months ago, she wants a trigger, not even a co-op.

    And Ed Henry reported that the administration plans to tell Pelosi that either accept a bill with no public option or have no healthcare reform bill at all.

    Parent

    I would be prepared to accept a trigger (5.00 / 2) (#87)
    by andgarden on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 03:32:42 PM EST
    But the determination of whether or not the insurers have met the conditions must be during this Presidential term. In addition, the public option that must be triggered is the ability to buy into Medicare itself, at means tested rates.

    But that's not the position I would present going into negotiation.

    Parent

    That's not how you negotiate! (none / 0) (#90)
    by nycstray on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 03:35:02 PM EST
    You let them know in advance you will cave on all demands, dontcha know?!  

    Parent
    Well DUH (none / 0) (#92)
    by andgarden on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 03:36:52 PM EST
    I'm just saying that I would not be upset with House progressives voting for such a bill. But if something like that is their bottom line, they shouldn't say so.

    Parent
    hmm (none / 0) (#96)
    by lilburro on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 03:39:00 PM EST
    that seems like a strong trigger (buying into Medicare).  My question is, how do you negotiate a weak concept like a trigger and end up with buying into Medicare?  That sort of negotiation works in my family - "If I do this ONE thing for you, can I FINALLY have some peace and quiet/TV time/car keys" etc.  

    Parent
    The insurance companies get their opportunity (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by andgarden on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 03:42:40 PM EST
    to show what they can do without effective national competition. If they can't compete, they "trigger" their worst nightmare.

    But the trigger has already been defined as a centrist, reasonable compromise. So it will make David Broder happy.

    Parent

    My god. (5.00 / 2) (#93)
    by shoephone on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 03:37:47 PM EST
    If this is really what the WH is doing, it is nothing but b.s. all the way aournd. What a bunch of effing AMATEURS!

    Parent
    A couple of years? (5.00 / 2) (#106)
    by MO Blue on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 03:48:14 PM EST
    The number I read was ten years after implementation.

    See my comment 101.

    Parent

    Report (5.00 / 2) (#112)
    by waldenpond on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 03:52:59 PM EST
    on CNN stated a couple of years.  I know all of the WH protections for insurers and pharma are at 10 years.

    Parent
    Maybe Reid and Pelosi can write (5.00 / 2) (#117)
    by shoephone on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 04:00:40 PM EST
    one of those strongly worded letters... but it would have to compete with the one already written by the House Progressive Caucus.

    </snark>

    Parent

    That would have to be open to negotiation (none / 0) (#109)
    by andgarden on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 03:52:07 PM EST
    Otherwise it's really no trigger at all.

    Parent
    Hey (none / 0) (#111)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 03:52:51 PM EST
    that should be enough to rake in some good profits and then sigh and wring hands and say, okay, we just couldn't do what you asked.  Trigger invoked.

    Parent
    The trigger idea (5.00 / 2) (#108)
    by Democratic Cat on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 03:51:19 PM EST
    reminds me of a parent wagging their finger at a child and claiming, "and this time I mean it!" Uh-huh.

    Parent
    Jonathan Alter (5.00 / 2) (#64)
    by waldenpond on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 03:12:35 PM EST
    says, for the thousandth... the public option must die.  He further states the Democrats will have to suck up (his words) corporate welfare and windfall profits by the insurers.

    Question by talking head... if an industry that is holding the country hostage is given more profit, won't that hurt the Democrats more.

    Theoretical constitutional scholar (5.00 / 2) (#68)
    by DancingOpossum on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 03:14:38 PM EST
    He theoretically supports true health care reform. And he theoretically supports green energy jobs. And he theoretically supports environmental protection. And government transparency. And regulatin financial markets. And gay rights. And an end to government torture.

    He was also theoretically anti-war, except when he's escalating the war in Afghanistan and bombing the crap out of Pakistani civilians. But it's OK, I heard he's going to give a speech about all of these issues very, very soon.

    What will liberal Democrats do in 2010? Stay home and let the lunatics win? Vote Green Party en masse (hey, their support for single-payer is at least as theoretical as Obama's was)? I'm genuinely curious. I did vote Green Party in the GE, but even so I don't really think that's a viable alternative unless we want the GOPers to win (or unless there was such massive Democratic Party discontent that a third-party contender could win, which isn't a realistic possibility right now). And yet, nobody wants to go on rewarding the Democrats' bad behavior. It's a true dilemma.

    Meh, maybe it makes no difference at this point. The Dems have proven just as warmongering and torture-loving and corporation-worshipping as the Republicans. But it's very sad, no doubt.


    I only vote for those who work for my interests (5.00 / 7) (#77)
    by shoephone on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 03:25:19 PM EST
    It's no big deal for me to help primary my phony blue senators. I voted against Cantwell last time around in the primary AND the general. Wrote in the name of a 78-year old friend who's a former microbiologist.

    I'm without a party, but not without my scruples.

    Parent

    It is indeed a true dilemma (5.00 / 3) (#79)
    by Dr Molly on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 03:26:05 PM EST
    Your last paragraph is the narrative I hear from most of my liberal friends now - they're all working for corporate interests, not for us, whether D or R.

    Lately, I hear a lot of talk of people just giving up on national politics and working at the local level for smaller community changes.

    The continued enabling of environmental destruction is particularly galling to me.


    Parent

    I'm a big believer in working at the local level. (5.00 / 2) (#104)
    by shoephone on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 03:45:08 PM EST
    We really can effect change there. Work our way up to county, then state, then maybe maybe maybe national.

    Local politics is so immediate, almost intimate. I know all my city council members. I know half of the county council members. Access.

     

    Parent

    Eau de toilette (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 03:39:04 PM EST
    for the toilette.

    (Wording from a commercial. but so appropriate).

    Maybe the best blog post title (5.00 / 2) (#105)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 03:47:25 PM EST
    of all time.

    Excuse me (5.00 / 3) (#121)
    by kenosharick on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 04:06:09 PM EST
    Was there a change in administrations in January? Because I am not noticing much difference.

    Ugh (none / 0) (#1)
    by andgarden on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:09:06 PM EST


    He's not really wrong... (none / 0) (#2)
    by BigElephant on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:09:49 PM EST
    The fact that the option is gov't run really isn't the point.  But it's that you create a true market force that drives down cost while improving health care.

    With that said, it's still unclear how the existing plan (or what is said of the existing plan) does this.  I've yet to hear a robust discussion of the exchanges, which I think is really the crux (with or w/o the public option).  But it doesn't get much airplay.

    The other problem with his argument is that free market competition in health care w/o really "smart" regulation is scary.  

    I think his general point is correct, but it's a hard sell, and will be a bear to implement. But it needs to get done, even with the public option.


    The option is NOT (5.00 / 3) (#20)
    by Anne on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:24:54 PM EST
    government run - that's fallacy #1.  It may have government money in it - via what amount to loans to the non-profit insurance companies that will start up the option all over the country, and via subsidies to insurance companies who provide some sort of coverage through these option entities - but it is not going to be government administered a la Medicare.  

    As for this idea that free market competition will drive down prices, have we not had such a market for lo, these many years?  Will it only be with the creation of some sort of not-really-public option-that-won't-be-a-real-option that we will magically see health care costs going down?  Seriously?

    What's in the legislation/proposals and - god help us - "spirit" may be called a "public option," but only if you re-define the word "public" and the word "option" to mean "not available to the entire public" and "not an option for most Americans," respectively.

    Parent

    It's the same market that rewards productivity (5.00 / 6) (#76)
    by cawaltz on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 03:24:43 PM EST
    dontcha know.....Of course they forgot to mention that the actual rewards wouldn't go to the people who actually were responsible for high productivity levels but to the managers of the managers of the managers(read as CEOs of those folk).

    It's also the same market that rewards private insurance companies for denying coverage and creating hoops so difficult to hop through that people end up dying before they get the care they need.

    I'll take a pass at a market solution thanks. I trust the market as far as I can throw it.

    Parent

    Fallacies... (none / 0) (#37)
    by BigElephant on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:34:56 PM EST
    You may be right about fallacy #1.  If you are in fact correct then it hasn't been well communicated.  In fact all of the comparison with military health care, Medicare, etc... have done it a grave disservice.

    In fact they shouldn't call it the public option... Hmmm... if it is in fact the fallacy you speak of, my strategy would be similar to what Obama is proposing.  Lets kill the "public option" and instead we'll subsidize non-profit and private insurance.  That's a win-win, you get what you always wanted, yet have convinced people that you've killed what they feared.  I really wish there was a lot more concrete written about the actual details of the "public option".

    Regarding the free market, no we haven't really had one.  It's a market, but not really a free market.  It has lacked the transparency necessary for people to make informed choices on products.  With no feedback loop on the quality of service you don't actually make a choice based on the quality of service.  

    For example if I were to put two insurance policies in front of you could you tell me which one is better?  Probably not.  There's just too much which is unseen and not discoverable, even with the web.  But if I were to put two cell phone plans in front of you, you probably could.  

    This is why a good exchange is critical.  We need all insurance to be sold through it and the information available should be comprehensive and accessible.  

    Parent

    Health care is not a commodity. (5.00 / 2) (#43)
    by Anne on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:37:45 PM EST
    And let's learn the lessons of the California experiment with exchanges.  The one that failed.

    Parent
    You do realize... (none / 0) (#51)
    by BigElephant on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:49:45 PM EST
    that free markets don't rely on the item being a commodity.  Free markets set commodity prices, but drive competition in non-commodity markets.  

    This is why, for example, HTML 5 is now all the drive.  Competition in the non-commodity browser market has created innovation.  You can also see this in general for electronics.  You also see the same thing happening with sites like Yelp for services such as the food industry.

    The California exchange for the same reason that higher education is not a free market.  Lack of transparency.  The lesson of the Cali exchange is not that exchanges don't work, but to not do them the way they were done in Cali.

    And w/o an exchange the public option will also fail.  If I can't determine which option is generating efficiencies per my dollar, we will end up right back where we are today.  Only with the gov't (or non-profits) also being inefficient with no accountability.  

    Parent

    I can go to one site now (5.00 / 2) (#48)
    by nycstray on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:46:23 PM EST
    compare generals in plans and then DL more specifics for the ones that look like they'll fit. The info I really want will never be available. Will I really be covered if . . . ? You see, you never get that answer until "if" happens. That's why we need single payer/Medicare for all. An exchange will not solve the main issues. It's just a shiny object.

    Parent
    Why can't that info be available? (none / 0) (#52)
    by BigElephant on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:51:44 PM EST
    The data exists.  The insurance companies have DWs with this in it.  In fact their required to maintain it.  

    But I do agree that w/o that info single payer is the only real solution.  Without that info the public option is equally useless.

    Parent

    PO might not be equally useless (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by nycstray on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:59:12 PM EST
    without that info. If people can get affordable basic care, who couldn't before, we're already ahead.

    Parent
    That's orthogonal... (none / 0) (#63)
    by BigElephant on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 03:07:46 PM EST
    you can get that by simply subsidizing private insurance.  And in the short-term subsidizing is probably less expensive.

    The real goal of the public option is to keep private insurance efficient over the long haul.  But that doesn't work w/o a good exchange.

    Parent

    Maybe your goal is to keep (5.00 / 5) (#69)
    by MO Blue on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 03:17:13 PM EST
    private insurance in business over the long haul. If that is the case, then mandating that everyone buy private insurance will definitely do the trick. In fact, it will make the industry richer and more powerful.

    Now some of us have a different goal. We would like good quality health care for all. That IMO is never going to happen under the private insurance structure we have now. There really is a reason why our system cost twice as much as the health systems in other countries.

    Parent

    Oh, I know what "the goal" is (5.00 / 4) (#78)
    by nycstray on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 03:25:28 PM EST
    Not sure if subsidizing would be less expensive. Are they planning on subsidizing to the tune the feds get? As one who has been insurance shopping, things are pretty ugly out there when you're on your own. What's cheaper, the feds offering me insurance with a cost structure similar to say medicare or them funding a large part of a private 400 a month plan?

    I think opening up the PO to all would be much more effective than an exchange at keeping costs down. What the heck good is an exchange with the PO if folks are still stuck (mandated) buying high priced junk insurance because the PO is restricted to 9-10mil?

    Parent

    Well, even HR 3200 (5.00 / 2) (#113)
    by shoephone on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 03:53:23 PM EST
    only caps individual plans at $5,000 per year. So, without a subsidy you would still be paying $416 per month with that kind of public option.

    My concern is the deductible. As a self-employed business owner with pre-existing conditions and high-risk for cancer I had no luck finding anything with an affordable premium or meaningful deductible.

    Oh well. Only 15 more years until I'm eligible for Medicare.

    Parent

    Exactly (5.00 / 6) (#119)
    by dissenter on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 04:05:00 PM EST
    I have no pre existing conditions (my husband has a back issue) and I just got my renewal from the non-profit Kaiser and the premium for me and my husband is $1400 a month! Last spring they had to send a two hundred and something refund per subscriber because they made too much money in the state of Colorado.

    These idiots are going to bankrupt this country, drive every self employed person and small business out of business and drive up the uninsured leading to way higher taxes for everything because all of Washington is nothing more than a cesspool of corporate shills who do not give a sh!t about anyone but themselves and their big business masters.

    I knew Obama would suck but even I am surprised at how spineless and frankly STUPID he really has turned out to be.


    Parent

    This is what I'm talking about... (2.00 / 1) (#148)
    by BigElephant on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 04:52:06 PM EST
    I don't know what kind of back issue your husband has, nor other relevant data, but $1400/month is on the high side, unless one of you also has cancer or something.  

    In an open market you could easily get a much lower rate for comparable care (assuming there isn't other relevant data that you're not leaving out), but given the current conditions, that's not always an easy task.

    Parent

    Unless one of you also has cancer (5.00 / 3) (#150)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 04:56:07 PM EST
    or has survived a cancer in the past....then please go suck pond water??????????  Welcome to the American scum pile where you deserve what you are getting????????

    Parent
    The market solution for those people (5.00 / 4) (#153)
    by cawaltz on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 05:06:45 PM EST
    Death- ahhhhhhh and it's "uniquely American" when you figure in that it's coming from a developed country instead of a third world country.

    Parent
    Are crazy? (1.00 / 2) (#155)
    by BigElephant on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 05:23:46 PM EST
    Really?  I was just pointing out that they are likely over paying even in today's insurance situation.  There was no judgment or statement that anyone deserved anything.  But I was also being clear that this is contingent upon no other major condition.  I wasn't condemning anyone with that condition.

    Goodness gracious.  Critical reading skills of some people on this board are borderline 2nd grade.  It's no wonder that politicians use sound bites. I'm not sure you could follow a nuanced discussion of the issues.  At least you haven't shown it.

    Parent

    No Kidding Einstein. (5.00 / 6) (#158)
    by dissenter on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 05:56:21 PM EST
    Ya, we are definitely overpaying but guess what...If you want REAL insurance, with catastrophic coverage that is what it cost you if you are in your 40's and are self employed. Nobody has cancer, or Leukemia or needs surgery or any other bad condition. That is the price. It goes by age and the fact you don't have thousands of employees to pool.

    Maybe in your town you can get cheap comprehensive coverage for less but as a small business, with those factors that is what comprehensive coverage costs you. Could I go cheaper.... sure I could. And then I could be bankrupt too if something does come down the road. That is the whole point of having comprehensive coverage.

    And guess what....at our age it is almost impossible to change insurance as well (in this market) because people don't want to cover you if you aren't 24. And we aren't even 50!

    Colorado isn't different from other places. My mother as a self employed person in CA couldn't insurance at any price from the time she was 58. She has Medicare now but that is the reality in America.

    Parent

    Maybe it's just really expensive where you are... (none / 0) (#160)
    by BigElephant on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 06:40:30 PM EST
    In my industry there are a lot of self-employed people.  And I owned and sold a small business that covered all employees 100%, so I know a fair bit about health insurance costs.  Those numbers are a fair bit higher than what I've seen for self-employed two-person family ~age 45, with no health problems.  

    Like I said, I don't know the details of the back problem nor your coverage, but I was just pointing out that I know people in a similar demographic paying half that cost for adequate coverage (not stellar, but won't go bankrupt either).  

    Parent

    Evidently they aren't (5.00 / 2) (#161)
    by cawaltz on Thu Sep 03, 2009 at 12:01:15 AM EST
    the almighty market has spoken and it says their coverage costs $1400. Ahhhhhhhh, don't you just love a free and unfettered market? It's grand when they can randomly decide to charge you what they wish because they have product that you need.

    None of that socialist government stuff just a bunch of good ol' companies lining their pockets at the expense of human beings who have the misfortune to be well - human. God Bless our capitalist health care system.

    (rolling eyes again)

    Parent

    $1400 (none / 0) (#141)
    by shoephone on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 04:43:39 PM EST
    That is outrageous.

    Parent
    You're assuming the PO will be cost effective... (none / 0) (#95)
    by BigElephant on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 03:38:32 PM EST
    And it may well be, but I'm skeptical.  Especially in light of rapidly growing health care costs.  Without a competitive marketplace the PO can provide horrible low cost insurance, and there's no transparency to even know if some private insurer actually may have a better product.

    If there's a good exchange and a lot of market inefficiency it will be more apparent and that's an opportunity.  Even one for non-profits.  

    Otherwise humans have this odd knack for doing as little as possible for as much as possible.  That's in the gov't or in the private sector.  I don't think the PO would be an exception to this.

    Parent

    Piffel (5.00 / 2) (#149)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 04:53:43 PM EST
    The reason why costs are going through the roof is because insurance companies refuse payment on everything and anything.  When you do finally receive payment it's about an average of a year out from actual procedures....and that's if you get payment at all.  Secondly, as long as the healthcare system is capitalist based all we will ever have is humans doing as little as possible for as much as possible.  When we adopt something along European lines though where physicians and others assisting in healthcare delivery getting paid bonuses for creating healthier patients able to give more fully to the GNP and to our society....that is where that dynamic of humans giving as little as possible for as much as possible gets turned on its head and completely around!  Imagine getting paid to provide life instead of deaths.

    Parent
    I was hoping (5.00 / 2) (#157)
    by kmblue on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 05:34:12 PM EST
    a public option plan could not turn me down.
    As have all insurance companies, profit and not for profit.

    Silly old me.

    Parent

    Copy writer (none / 0) (#3)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:10:25 PM EST
    Smells like public option? (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:18:38 PM EST
    Geez.

    Parent
    Evokes the public option (5.00 / 3) (#14)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:20:25 PM EST
    The new plan will make you remember how much you liked the public option and how Obama really liked it too. so then you will like him.

    Parent
    Like driving by a bakery, I guess. (5.00 / 5) (#23)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:25:48 PM EST
    That's it! (5.00 / 3) (#39)
    by Anne on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:35:55 PM EST
    For a mere pittance, we can all get scratch-and-sniff cards that we can use when we want to feel like we are getting health care:  imagine how much better people will feel if, when they are sick, they can scratch the card, close their eyes and be transported to the hospital ER via their sense of smell!  

    Perhaps an added feature: flaps you can open that will play the sounds of health care - the ambulance siren, the sick kid screaming in the next bed, the snap of latex gloves - why, the placebo effect alone will have us all hale and hardy in no time!

    [it's almost bizarre enough to be do-able]

    Parent

    Indeed (none / 0) (#29)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:27:51 PM EST
    Smell the bread? Obama likes bread too.

    Parent
    more like (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:30:39 PM EST
    driving by a pig farm

    Parent
    Haha (none / 0) (#34)
    by Steve M on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:30:53 PM EST
    Comment of the day IMO.

    Parent
    Copy writer? (none / 0) (#24)
    by BigElephant on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:25:58 PM EST
    Not sure if it was a slam on my poor writing or just my poor thinking -- maybe both  :-)

    Parent
    A little mystery (5.00 / 3) (#30)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:29:16 PM EST
    adds to the consumer's interest in the product.

    Parent
    Okay, BTD, your headline writing (none / 0) (#107)
    by Cream City on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 03:50:44 PM EST
    has improved considerably (since my critique this morn), as this one is a home run.  I go away for a couple of hours and come back to "Eau de Public Opinion," which cracked me up . . . except that this eau is not parfum but just cheap cologne.

    I look forward to more of your copy that you would put on Obama's teleprompter on this issue.  If only.

    Parent

    cx (none / 0) (#122)
    by Cream City on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 04:07:07 PM EST
    not "Eau de Public Opinion" but "Eau de Public Option."  It cracked me up so much that I can't type.  Or maybe it was a Freudian slip, hmmmm.

    At least I didn't commit the bane of every headline writer who learns to be so wary when using the word "public" . . . because that "l" has a pesky way of disappearing from the word.  It does make for some great entries in the Headline Writers' Hall of Shame and Embarrassment, though.  

    Parent

    On TV closed captions (none / 0) (#139)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 04:37:50 PM EST
    which I turn on once in a while just for a chuckle, it usually comes through as "public auction."

    Parent
    Now, you and I know (none / 0) (#156)
    by Cream City on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 05:32:37 PM EST
    that it really comes through without the "l."  

    I'm going to have to try closed captioning when next my local PBS station has its action, as that will only add to the hilarious experience.  Here, the artworks that are most popular would stun you.  Spouse and I keep saying that we wish we could commission an artist to put together all the elements for Teh Ultimate Public Television Auction Artwork of All Time.  

    It would feature, at the least, and in full glorious oils:  Brett Favre, fall color, a brace of dead fowl, Vince Lombardi, a deer with a full rack of antlers -- a live deer, not the more usually seen version here, which is a dead deer tied onto a car roof -- and Holy Hill, a lovely local religious attraction.  

    Of course, we await with bated remote this year's auction to see if Brett Favre still will be a sure sell with the local viewing public.  I somehow sorta doubt it.  But Vince lives on . . . unlike the dead fowl.  

    Parent

    Don Draper comment made me laugh (none / 0) (#6)
    by Coral on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 02:14:51 PM EST
    Yup. Oy. They have really botched this. Now I'm just observing with curiosity and bemused smile what they'll dish up next.

    Hope evaporated sometime in mid-August.

    No public option and no universality either (none / 0) (#131)
    by ademption on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 04:31:39 PM EST
    If you read Ezra Klein's latest post, it appears that the White House will probably advocate covering 20 milllion instead of the entire 40 million that are uninsured:

    The second camp is not universal at all. This camp believes the bill needs to be scaled back sharply in order to ensure passage. Covering 20 million people isn't as good as covering 40 million people, but it's a whole lot better than letting the bill fall apart and covering no one at all. It's also a success of some sort, and it gives you something to build on. What that sacrifices in terms of structure it gains in terms of political appeal. This camp is largely headed by members of the political team.

    http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/

    Before it is all over the only (5.00 / 1) (#145)
    by MO Blue on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 04:49:26 PM EST
    things that will remain are 1) mandates for everyone to purchase private insurance and 2) the cuts to the Medicare budget.

    I wish I was joking but I'm not.

    Parent

    Yes, and please permit me to add: (3) financing (5.00 / 3) (#159)
    by KeysDan on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 06:05:17 PM EST
    will be solely from  Medicare "cuts and savings" thereby avoiding the pesky and unpopular proposed new taxes on annual incomes over $500,000.  Truly, one of those good Republican ideas.

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    AFL-CIO has huge Labor Day event in Cincinnati (none / 0) (#140)
    by aliasalias on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 04:42:42 PM EST
    and they have stated that support for the Public Option is their 'line in the sand'(and meaning REAl reform) and they will activate opposition to ALL those opposing it.
      Oh yeah, other than the TOP AFL-CIOs' at the event, another featured speaker is Pres. Obama. I will judge AFTER that event as to where he really stands.

    You really think you're going to get him (none / 0) (#142)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 04:45:30 PM EST
    pinned down?  I'm waiting on your report back friend!  I am surprised he's signed on to show up to something like this.

    Parent
    well (5.00 / 3) (#146)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 04:49:43 PM EST
    when even the front pagers at the great orange start dropping off maybe someone somewhere will start to get it.

    The thing they need to be careful of is that when you triangulate, you don't want to do it with the least popular position of all -- individual mandates without a serious cost-control mechanism. And you especially don't want to do it when that position is the exact opposite -- on both counts -- of your position during a campaign that you won by a wide margin.

    or not

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    I was noticing this front pager today too (none / 0) (#151)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 02, 2009 at 05:00:44 PM EST
    also noticed  that David Brooks is Bad at Math from same front pager.  And when I notice headlines and read orange front pagers....that's new at chez MT.

    Parent