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The Attacks Continue

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Media
Posted on Sun Sep 20, 2009 at 09:22:26 PM EST
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digby thinks Howard Dean is where the attacks will end:

[P]rivileged village insider Ron Brownstein [. . .] being a snotty little twit: "Howard Dean is becoming living proof that health care reform should offer a universal entitlement to Valium."

It won't be just Howard Dean and it was not just Ron Brownstein. I guess digby missed Ezra Klein's series of criticisms of Dean. But noting that would violate the logrolling rule.

Speaking for me only

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    The Attacks Continue | 14 comments (14 topical)

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    Yes I did (5.00 / 4) (#2)
    by digby on Sun Sep 20, 2009 at 10:49:20 PM EST
    I don't think I wrote or even implied that it was only Brownstein. But you're right, I did miss Klein's series about Dean. And I must have missed your series about his series too. Sadly, it's a big blogosphere and I don't always read every word or follow the ins and outs of various flame wars. I also don't know what "the logrolling rule" is but I'm sure if I did I would have violated it.

    Other than that, though, you nailed me good on this one.

    Hi Digby, Great to see you here (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by Romberry on Mon Sep 21, 2009 at 03:52:26 AM EST
    The Klein series on Dean, as far as I can tell, consisted of two entries in August when Ezra seemed to be having some sort of fit of the type that people suffering from ItB* disease have from time to time. Ezra's complaint, at its most basic, is that Dean is not saying exactly the same thing now that he was saying when he was campaigning for the Democratic nomination in 2003 and 2004. Dean's position is different, has evolved if you will, and that shows that he is Deeply Unserious™ and counterproductive to Hope and Change.™...or something like that.

    Here are the two bits that Ezra glurged in August:

    Howard Dean and the Goalposts

    The Evolution of the Public Option

    By the way, I dunno if you have seen it, but I am noticing more than a few "Dean for America 2012" type taglines in blog comments and posts these last weeks. It seems that people who voted for Hope and Change expected to get some actual change. If Dean can be brought on board to run, he has my vote.

    *Inside the Belway

    Parent

    Missed one! (none / 0) (#9)
    by Romberry on Mon Sep 21, 2009 at 04:22:53 AM EST
    Klein was on this "hey, this isn't what Dean was saying back in 2004!" kick back in March about two months before he began his current gig producing ItB glurge.

    The Return of Howard Dean

    Dean means to throw his considerable weight behind a Democracy for America campaign "to build support for the public insurance option in Congressional districts across the country." Arshad Hasan, DFA's executive director, puts it pretty starkly. "We're drawing a policy line in the sand," he said. "We're saying that if the public option is not included, it's not real health care reform."

    That's a bit of a weird line to draw. Dean's health reforms in Vermont did not include a public insurance option. His health reform plan in the 2004 campaign did not include a public insurance option.

    See the link for the full glurge.

    Parent

    It's a big blogosphere (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Sep 21, 2009 at 08:51:13 AM EST
    and the "progressive" bloggers do no wrong, at least as I read the "progressive" blogosphere.

    Sorry if it seems I am picking on you. My criticsm is aimed at everyone in the "progressive" blogosphere.

    BTW Digby, I disagree with the "progressive" blogs on Afganistan, free trade, the potential for a constitutional preventive detention regime and much much more.

    At least, on paper, I am much more conservative than  most of the "progressive" blogs.

    But I DO write about hypocrisy from the blogs. Especially when a blog voice has come to be an important one. I have no sacred cows. Heck, I gave Krugman the business the other day.

    I pick on the folks who decide they are going to "police" the Beltway (you in this instance) and leaves off the person in the blogs (and now the Beltway) who has done immense harm on health care reform - Mr. JournOList himself, Ezra Klein.

    Parent

    It's a big blogosphere (none / 0) (#13)
    by DaveInChi21 on Mon Sep 21, 2009 at 09:36:41 AM EST
    BTD, you noted a number of areas where you state your disagreement with "progressive" bloggers.  This may be off topic but I remember reading you stating that you believe in "american exceptionalism".  Can you direct me to anything you previously wrote on that topic?  Thanks.

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    Google American Exceptionalism and Armando (none / 0) (#14)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Sep 21, 2009 at 09:43:38 AM EST
    Something should come up

    Parent
    Dean (5.00 / 3) (#4)
    by lentinel on Mon Sep 21, 2009 at 03:30:18 AM EST
    When I hear Dean speak, he sounds clear.
    I can't say that for Obama.
    I know what Dean wants.
    I still can't tell what Obama wants.

    Exactly (4.00 / 3) (#7)
    by Romberry on Mon Sep 21, 2009 at 04:03:04 AM EST
    One man is principled, the other was a marketing phemonon. One man is strong, the other is PPUS* milquetoast designed to be palatable to Republicans.

    A good example of the "he just doen't get it" PPUS Milquetoasties® was covered by Krugman in today's column for the NY Times, Reform or Bust:

    (N)ow that we've stepped back a few paces from the brink -- thanks, let's not forget, to immense, taxpayer-financed rescue packages -- the financial sector is rapidly returning to business as usual. Even as the rest of the nation continues to suffer from rising unemployment and severe hardship, Wall Street paychecks are heading back to pre-crisis levels. And the industry is deploying its political clout to block even the most minimal reforms.

    ...

    I was startled last week when Mr. Obama, in an interview with Bloomberg News, questioned the case for limiting financial-sector pay: "Why is it," he asked, "that we're going to cap executive compensation for Wall Street bankers but not Silicon Valley entrepreneurs or N.F.L. football players?"

    That's an astonishing remark -- and not just because the National Football League does, in fact, have pay caps. Tech firms don't crash the whole world's operating system when they go bankrupt; quarterbacks who make too many risky passes don't have to be rescued with hundred-billion-dollar bailouts. Banking is a special case -- and the president is surely smart enough to know that.


    As I said in the (sarcastic) closing remarks of a blog post over at Open Salon:
    Did we say "Yes, we can!" Hell, that's all wrong. What we really meant was "No, we can't!" In fact, that's the slogan for 2012. Also, to go along with a new patriotic McDonald's value menu, we'll be unveiling a new hope and change theme: "Hope for change...back from your dollar!"  Bumper stickers coming soon...

    A commenter to that post was closer to the mark: Perhaps the real slogan should have been, "Yes, we can! But we won't."

    *Post-Partisan Unity Shtick

    Parent

    Well (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by lilburro on Mon Sep 21, 2009 at 08:24:03 AM EST
    a lot of people in the blogs read Ezra Klein, maybe not every entry every day but pretty often.  dday and digby have both recently cited Ezra.  I guess I can give digby a slight pass here for not citing him more recently than August.

    But of course bloggers are reading Ezra - he focuses on the healthcare debate.  It defies belief to say they aren't.  He helps shape public opinion now and few, possibly only BTD (I guess Marcy Wheeler and Jane Hamsher have taken a few shots too), in the blogs are keeping him honest by demonstrating when he drops the ball.  

    And yeah, Ezra's attacks on Dean made Dean sound like a crazy irrelevant man and the public option look disposable.  The citations are in Romberry's posts above.  "Howard Dean and the Goal Posts" pretty much says it all.

    Anyway, Ezra has been doing more or less what Brownstein did.

    I would welcome, once again, . . . (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by Doc Rock on Mon Sep 21, 2009 at 08:42:34 AM EST
    . . . a Howard Dean candidacy!

    [In the interest of full disclosure: 8th cousin, oncce removed]  

    Here's a perfect example (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by lilburro on Mon Sep 21, 2009 at 09:44:27 AM EST
    of the damage "liberal" critic Ezra Klein is doing to healthcare reform.  From today:

    Save health reform from what? Consider the recent developments: Two weeks ago, four of five committees had passed their bills, and one committee was tangled in an interminable and opaque process. Last week, that committee produced a bill that, though not perfect, is pretty close to the other bills on the table. On Friday, the committee chairman and the crucial Republican both announced that the subsidies need to be raised, which addresses the main problem liberals have with the legislation. Later this week, the Massachusetts Senate is expected to allow an interim replacement for Sen. Ted Kennedy, giving Democrats their 60th vote.  [emphasis supplied]

    In one swoop, Ezra endorses the Baucus bill as a template and totally disses the public option to focus on subsidies - and says not that HE believes that is the main problem in the legislation, but that ALL liberals believe that (making us public option folks commies I guess).  

    And do I think this sunny view will be repeated in the MSM?  Hell yes and it has been.

    Does not matter (none / 0) (#16)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Sep 21, 2009 at 10:04:17 AM EST
    digby decided not to read those posts.

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    I hate to see (none / 0) (#3)
    by shoephone on Mon Sep 21, 2009 at 12:35:57 AM EST
    two of my favorite bloggers in a spat. You two oughta get together for a beer sometime soon because, as far as I can tell, you are on the same side of this issue.

    Big picture.

    Nothing wrong with differences of opinion (none / 0) (#17)
    by shoephone on Mon Sep 21, 2009 at 11:35:45 AM EST
    We feed off that on most days, don't we? It's just that the only blogs I read anymore are this one and Digby's and maybe skins are thinnner they they should be...

    As for the Huskies -- what a victory for them! It was clear to me in the first quarter the Trojans would lose and that Corp was not quite ready for this game. (A handoff at 3rd and 13 just didn't seem too bright a play.)

    In all disclosure, I'm not much of a Husky football fan, but after putting up with the creepy, lying b*astard Neuheisel and then the incompetent Willingham, I guess I can be forgiven for my attitude? The last two years we've had bad college football, bad MLB, and no more NBA. Good thing I'm not a big drinker or I'd have been crying in a lot of beer.

    Anyway, looks like Seattle has reason to smile this season and that's a very nice change of pace for us.

    The weather is beautiful today. But you know that means that by next week Everett and surrounding areas may be doused in rain...

    Parent

    The Attacks Continue | 14 comments (14 topical)

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