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Tuesday Afternoon Open Thread

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Blog Related
Posted on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 02:25:42 PM EST
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    Tuesday Afternoon Open Thread | 67 comments (67 topical)

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    I'll put it here instead (5.00 / 4) (#1)
    by andgarden on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 02:29:11 PM EST
    The Big Dog on healthcare:

    "What I'm more worried about is our people getting careless, forgetting the experience of '94, and that it is imperative that they produce a health-care bill for the president and make it the best one they can; if it's not perfect, we'll go back and fix it. But the people hire you to deliver."

    "This electorate has suffered. They've suffered economically, they've suffered an enormous amount of sort of psychic insecurity from 9/11 to the economic breakdown, they've seen all this change going on around them, and they see in Obama a cool and intelligent guy who can multitask in a world where they know you've got to multitask. What they don't know is whether our guys are going to stand and deliver. And sooner or later you've got to stand and deliver. All we have to worry about is getting things done and doing them as well as we can. Don't even worry about the Republicans. Let them figure out what they're going to stand for. 'Cause as long as they're sitting around waiting for us to mess up, they don't have a chance."
    Wow, do I miss hearing someone tell it (5.00 / 3) (#2)
    by shoephone on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 02:40:56 PM EST
    like it is.

    Parent
    Don't even worry about the Republicans (5.00 / 4) (#7)
    by Dadler on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 03:09:04 PM EST
    Boom.

    Parent
    I miss (5.00 / 3) (#14)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 03:16:02 PM EST
    Bubba

    Parent
    I miss someone who gave (5.00 / 4) (#24)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 03:40:03 PM EST
    a sh*t about the little guy and girl.

    Parent
    I no longer believe in (5.00 / 3) (#40)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 04:31:50 PM EST
    "go back and fix it."

    Parent
    Yep. (5.00 / 2) (#50)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 05:35:43 PM EST
    The old "no time to do it right, but plenty of time to do it over" BS.

    Who are these people?

    Parent

    Exactly (none / 0) (#46)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 05:26:38 PM EST


    Parent
    But... (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by shoephone on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 02:54:24 PM EST
    I'm unique!  ;-)

    Actually, I've had "twins" in every city I've lived. A woman named Patty in LA, a woman named Susan in Seattle... kinda scary in a way.

    saw one of these in the back yard (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by Dadler on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 02:57:12 PM EST
    A tarantula hawk -- notice how it's big enough to wrangle a it's huge namesake spider.  Hadn't seen one since I was a teenager working manual labor out in the hills of east LA county.  Really incredible looking creatures.  Supposed to have one of the most painful stings in the world, too.

    Wiki

    Video link

    those things! (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 03:09:55 PM EST
    shudder
    what a horrible way to die.  being eaten from inside out by wasp larva.

    like being an elementary school teacher.


    Parent

    We have fairy wasps. (none / 0) (#36)
    by Fabian on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 04:05:46 PM EST
    I don't know exactly what species they are, but they are small, but predatory, not parasitizing like many tiny wasps.  Dang.  Can't use "fairy wasp" because it is the name of a very tiny wasp that parasitizes insect eggs!

    These ladies are about 1/2" long and I've seen two of them dragging their prey to the nest.  Too heavy to fly, they still manage to wrestle the grubs and insects gracefully over the ground.   A tentative google brings up "pomphilus" for a likely genus.  Google prompted me for "pamphilus" which turns out to be a butterfly genus. I don't think so.

    Parent

    Station Fire still burning, only 60% contained. (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 03:10:54 PM EST
    California Burnin'.

    I don't know how you deal... (none / 0) (#18)
    by kdog on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 03:24:45 PM EST
    every year with those fires my brother...not too close to your crib I hope.

    Hopefully the enviromentalists will back-off and allow more controlled burns in the future.

    Parent

    from my experience living there (5.00 / 3) (#19)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 03:32:01 PM EST
    environmentalists are not the problem.  the cops come around to regular folks and make them clear the brush around their houses.  they dont do that in rich neighborhoods.  thats why you mostly hear about expensive (Malibu, etc) houses being threatened.  those houses are worth a fire fighter or two.  not mine our yours.

    this is not always the case of course.

    Parent

    There seems to be a big stink this year... (none / 0) (#23)
    by kdog on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 03:39:09 PM EST
    about strict enviromental regs limiting the amount/scope of controlled burns.  Link

    Parent
    Actually (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by Fabian on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 04:15:20 PM EST
    Controlled burns are not easy to do even when you have an ideal situation and most importantly, accessible terrain.

    All you need to do is to be able to ensure that you will be able to control the burn.  Not difficult if you are burning flat prairie or range.  Hills, ravines, mountains, dense brush and other inaccessible terrain makes controlled burns very difficult, which also means expensive.

    I look at these fires as a mixed blessing.  I don't want people to lose their lives or property, but a burn this year means that it will be years before the fuel load is big enough for a catastrophic fire.  Frequent fires are good for areas that have fire ecologies.  They are healthy fires.  Too long between fires means that any fires are likely to be uncontrollable, ravaging monsters.

    They were actually very, very fortunate with this fire.  No Santa Ana winds means that they could use aircraft almost at will.  The last set of fires during the Santa Ana winds were fought almost entirely on the ground because the winds were too strong to deploy aircraft.

    Parent

    Very informative.... (5.00 / 2) (#44)
    by kdog on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 05:05:35 PM EST
    Thanks Fabian.

    Thats why I love it here, learn something everyday.

    Parent

    kdog, i might be in the big apple in november (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 06:37:55 PM EST
    want to have a couple of brews? I'll watch y'all play hoops... 50, fat, and unskilled makes an ugly cheerleader, but a worse player!

    Parent
    "50, fat, and unskilled" (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by nycstray on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 06:54:15 PM EST
    stick with me for a few days and then perhaps get on the court with KDog towards a better future  ;)

    No need to watch. Better to join in :)

    Parent

    Ijust want to get back to the big city! (none / 0) (#59)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 06:57:05 PM EST
    I'll buy the first round of Schaeffers or Rheingolds!

    Parent
    Heck, I should say the same to BTD! (none / 0) (#56)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 06:38:54 PM EST
    Do they still make Schaeffer's?  I know the deli scene is still good...

    Parent
    I'd enjoy that a lot jeff... (none / 0) (#71)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 09, 2009 at 08:05:10 AM EST
    my email is in my user info...just gimme a couple days notice if possible and its on kid, we can toast your new gig!:)

    I can only find Schaeffer in cans...its either that, Pabst, or Bud in the cooler Sunday morns for football in the fall/winter...first games this Sunday!

    Parent

    California (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by Fabian on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 07:07:03 PM EST
    isn't the only place with a fire ecology.  The dry range lands of the West and also parts of Florida have fire ecologies.

    Those Santa Ana winds are the absolute scariest things.  I have a small book about catastrophic fires and the Santa Ana fires of the 1970s had screaming winds ripping the burning cedar shake shingles off and hurling them into the air.  Imagine a field of dandelions sending thousands of seeds floating on the winds to take root hundreds of feet away.  Now imagine the same scenario with roof after burning roof.  

    Parent

    Fire ecology also in the midwest... (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 07:13:15 PM EST
    certain varieties of pine. The cones can't open to release the seed without fire.

    be that as it may, I fought fires in Idaho and Oregon one summer. We didn't have 80-100 mph winds like the Santa Anna winds.

    While I was in Arizona, I met a man who had been a prisoner firefighter about 30 or more years ago now. He said that the state loaded them into helicopters, dropped them off, and left them.

    then it was the middle of nowhere, but now it's built up.

    Parent

    Even without a big fire raging, Santa Anas (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by caseyOR on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 09:23:02 PM EST
    are awful. When I was in LA we dreaded the annual return of those winds. Santa Anas put everybody on edge. The air sizzles with static electricity. You get a shock everytime you touch the car door. Wind gusts so strong that when you open the car door a sudden wind snaps it out of your hands and flings the door open almost to the point of breaking the hinges.

    People go a little crazy during a Santa Ana. A certain eeriness permeates the atmosphere. It can be a little creepy.

    Add fire into the mix and, as others have said, tragedy ensues.

    Parent

    Santa Anna's are a B!tch (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by nycstray on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 05:57:20 PM EST
    and controlled burns can be iffy.

    Where I grew up in the Bay Area (and my parents still live) we were surrounded by hills and ranch land. My Dad went out as soon as the grass turned and would clear a fire break behind our fence line, as did everyone around. There was one fire that required planes and dumping from the air, but mostly, I think the ranch lands help with the fire fuel. It seems to me they have more "grass fires" vs "wild fires". Yes, grass fires can do a lot of damage, but not like what we're seeing in the SoCal hills.

    I worry about El Nino setting in and massive mudslides, in the hills that have burned the past couple of seasons, coming up next.

    Parent

    Whether it is a legitimate (none / 0) (#29)
    by ruffian on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 03:49:29 PM EST
    issue or not, it is a reflex rightie response to a big fire.

    Parent
    Capn, that is perhaps the most asinine (none / 0) (#39)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 04:30:59 PM EST
    and untrue comment I think I've ever read here on TL. What the heck has gotten into you?

    Parent
    whats untrue about it? (none / 0) (#42)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 04:45:05 PM EST
    the cops made me clear the brush around my house.
    a couple of miles away they didnt say a word to my boss whos house almose burned because of brush.
    and I assure I am not the only person who has noticed this class divide.  I have talked about this to many people.

    Parent
    You must have lived in a different LA (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 05:31:22 PM EST
    than the one we all live in now.

    In the LA I live in certain zones have been identified as high brush fire potential (because, surprise surprise, they're surrounded by brush and are in the canyons that the Santa Ana's funnel down like freight trains) and all the properties w/in those zones are assessed for brush clearance/fire safety on a yearly basis.

    You attempt to bring classism into something that absolutely does not warrant it because of some ancient and highly questionable, yet polarizing, story of yours about some old boss and you state it as some kind of fundamental truth.

    People lose/lost their lives and everything they own in these fires, and you want to make some sh!t-a$$ statement that is completely untrue.

    And for cripes sake, you really think it's the POLICE who have responsibility to do these brush clearance/fire assessments?

    Dude, wtf?

    Parent

    not that ancient (none / 0) (#72)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 09, 2009 at 02:46:58 PM EST
    2001 or 2002.  when I lived in LA every township seemed to have different rules for clearing brush.
    in my case the police, in fact, did come to my house and every other house in the canyon where I lived and told me if I did not clear the brush they would send someone to do it an send me a bill.
    that was in Topanga canyon.  my boss, who lived in Malibu, in fact, got no such warning, I know because I asked him, and  his house was almost lost to the fires later that very same year.

    I am surprised you seem so surprised by this.  when I lived there it was quite widely discussed.  I am not injecting class into anything.  its what happened.
     

    Parent

    I'm sure its what you think happened. (none / 0) (#73)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Sep 09, 2009 at 06:04:45 PM EST
    That is not to be confused with what actually did happen, nor what the reality of how brush clearing/fire assessment around structures is actually done in LA.

    First, there are no "police" in Topanga, only sheriffs.

    Second, neither the police nor the sheriffs conduct brush checks/fire assessments in Topanga/Malibu. The County Fire Dept does. Of course. Always has.  

    What's next, the Fire Dept staking-out drug dealers and car-theft rings? Kinda hard to hide that big red truck from the bad guys, doncha think?

    Third, and on the point, the fire dept checks every structure in the Very High Fire Hazard Severity Zones that needs to be checked. ie., homes, etc. - regardless of wealth - that border open area are assessed, like many in Topanga. While homes that do not border open areas - like many in Malibu - are not assessed.

    I know, I know, your wee home had no access to open areas and your boss lived in an expensive home surrounded by acres and acres of flammable brush, yet you got checked and he didn't.

    And the only reason for that is the 'man' is against you, the 'little guy.'

    Well, either you got the story wrong or he did, because the fire dept checks all structures in danger, not just the "poor" people's homes.

    You are absolutely trying to inject class and/or that cops are 'bad' and/or that the [fire dept] 'system' is against "regular" folks into the discussion, and you are completely wrong.

    Fer cripe's sake.

    Parent

    Where I'm moving (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by nycstray on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 05:44:54 PM EST
    the clearing rules don't give a crap about your income. My parents hire someone local if they can't get to the cabin to clear or my Dad's health isn't up to the work. We joke, as it's always been one of my Dad's favorite jobs, clearing brush, keeping up the yard, putzing around outside doing dog-knows-what, lol!~ at the cabin, we call it "he's out there raking the dirt" (pine needles etc).

    Iirc, last year when I called my parents about it, in the article I read there was a warning about the deadline as to when the clearing was supposed to be done and if it wasn't, folks were going to be ponying up some fines. They have clear rules as to clearance from structures and around lots. My Dad wasn't doing well, so I was concerned if they could get it done. Mom had it handled a couple weeks prior :)

    Maybe there's a dif between NoCal mentality and SoCal mentality?! (I have my thoughts on that one . . . )

    And yes, I will be clearing next spring. And I will have my evac plans in place. With 6 pets, gotta be prepared!

    Parent

    Goats (none / 0) (#69)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Sep 09, 2009 at 12:06:02 AM EST
    Seriously.  If you can manage to house a few goats, they'll nibble all that stuff right down as soon as it comes up.

    Parent
    Thanks. So far this year they're far, far away. (none / 0) (#41)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 04:36:32 PM EST
    Knock wood.

    Parent
    this (none / 0) (#20)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 03:34:27 PM EST
    made me laugh

    Parent
    "Bush's Third Term?" (5.00 / 3) (#13)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 03:15:47 PM EST
    You're Living It, via David Swanson, Mother Jones:
    This dark fantasy of a third Bush term is also an accurate portrait of Obama's first term to date. In following Bush, Obama was given the opportunity either to restore the rule of law and the balance of powers or to firmly establish in place what were otherwise aberrant abuses of power. Thus far, President Obama has, in all the areas mentioned above, chosen the latter course. Everything described, from the continuation of crimes to the efforts to hide them away, from the corruption of corporate power to the assertion of the executive power to legislate, is Obama's presidency in its first seven months.
    now (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 03:16:51 PM EST
    thats depressing

    Parent
    The real depressing thing is that (none / 0) (#49)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 05:33:45 PM EST
    the writer probably believed what he wrote.

    Parent
    Tiger Lilly, get with it (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by joze46 on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 03:45:16 PM EST
     

    Saw this young girl, Tiger Lilly, on MSNBC just a moment ago. Very impressive, hope she is a Democrat she has more charisma than Sarah Palin squared. They talked about the school speech. Debating controversial reasons that Obama should not be able to talk to grade school students.

    Meh (none / 0) (#31)
    by cawaltz on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 03:53:11 PM EST
    many Presidents before him gave grade school students a pep talk. I don't see what the big deal about it was.

    Parent
    Obviously (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 03:47:19 PM EST
    they want to commit political suicide and take the party with them.

    Yes, I said in another thread, I hope this bill also provides more funding for the prisons needed to house the "tax evaders".

    Well, think of it this way (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by Zorba on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 05:44:55 PM EST
    If they're in prison, at least they'll get taxpayer-funded health care.  (Not that they'll put anyone in prison for not buying health insurance or paying the resultant fine.  They'll just attach your paycheck, take it out of any tax refund, slap a lien on your house, etc.  On second thought, you can go to jail for not paying your taxes, so maybe......)

    Parent
    let me tell you, (none / 0) (#54)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 06:36:17 PM EST
    health care in the prison system is poor at best.

    Parent
    It was (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by Zorba on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 08:08:56 PM EST
    a snark, Jeff.  I realize health care in prisons is awful.  But then, so is the "health care" you (don't) receive if you don't make enough to afford decent health insurance, but too much to qualify for Medicare, and you get a catastrophic illness.  Cancer, Parkinson's, heart disease, lupus, etc., etc.

    Parent
    sorry about my snarkmeter (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 08:12:41 PM EST
    malfunction... call it my bad, Zorba.

    I must say I agree with you. Finally this year i'm in a state employee's system. Beats the heck out of 1000 per month.


    Parent

    Oh the horrors! (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by nycstray on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 06:50:09 PM EST
    In the midst of all the fear Obama would co-opt children's brains . . . . they missed the fact that he sent out admin reps to schools.

    O.M.G.!!! (the Horror!!) Hillary {cue CDS that didn't happen} spoke to local school children before his speech!!! Heh, the little kids they interviewed after were so cute and into the whole "President speaking to them (about school)" thing. 5th graders, iirc.

    The kids get it. And I can say Thank You to the local media coverage I saw. No hysterics, just feel good stories of the President's message and the kids positive response. As it should be. No "brainwashing" involved.

    Honestly, I have to give Obama props for talking to the kids in the manner he did. Hillary mentioned Eisenhower as her memory of a President talking to "her".

    Thinking of going to see the matinee (none / 0) (#3)
    by shoephone on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 02:43:05 PM EST
    of "District 9" but I have to leave for the theater in twenty minutes in order to make it on time.

    Is it very depressing?

    have not heard (none / 0) (#12)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 03:13:41 PM EST
    its depressing.  heard many times its a must see.

    Parent
    Thx. (none / 0) (#16)
    by shoephone on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 03:19:31 PM EST
    I missed the first matinee due to incoming urgent emails! I may still try for the late afternoon matineee.

    Parent
    kdog on healthcare... (none / 0) (#4)
    by kdog on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 02:49:01 PM EST
    everybody with coverage adopt two people of similar age/height/weight/looks who aren't covered and share a "health insurance identity"....double or triple up under one policy.

    I mean its obvious the money changers aren't ever gonna do the right thing, or let the right thing be done...lets follow their lead and get shady...its the American way.  We'd just have to pair or triple up 2 healthy with one sickly...and if one of the healthy gets sickly, play dumb.

    ***Hat tip to a buddy who used his brother's insurance when he broke his arm...said it worked like a charm.

    Heh (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by cawaltz on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 03:37:10 PM EST
    you must have a more trusting insurer than mine. We were required to submit copies of birth certificates, our marriage liscense, and a tax return to our administrators to prove everyone my husband had on our policy was entitled to it.

    We actually questioned it because with all that information it would be real easy for someone to steal our or our childrens identity.

    Oh and requesting a copy of a birth certificate from California was quite the pain in the backside.

    Parent

    Hey (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by Spamlet on Wed Sep 09, 2009 at 12:52:28 AM EST
    We were required to submit copies of birth certificates, our marriage liscense, and a tax return to our administrators to prove everyone my husband had on our policy was entitled to it.

    Welcome to my big gay world, with a couple of differences. One, we're not allowed to get married, so when I wanted to add my spouse to my employer's health insurance plan, we had to go out and get a certificate of "domestic partnership" from our city government (after having been legally married in Canada). Two, I had to pay tax on the value of my spouse's health insurance.

    Parent

    Damn... (none / 0) (#28)
    by kdog on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 03:48:17 PM EST
    your insurance co sounds worse than the government!

    Never had the ER admission desk ask me for ID the few times I've been there, only insurance card.  Is it the same for specialists, or do they ask for ID?  

    If they all start asking for seven forms of ID we're really f*cked.

    Parent

    I have to provide picture ID (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by easilydistracted on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 03:57:24 PM EST
    with insurance card each time. They swipe my drivers license through a reader, much like a credit card. Same with my insurance card, as it now has a magnetic strip. Several months ago my wife showed up without a picture ID and the office manager refused her the scheduled appointment until the doctor came to the desk and vouched for her.

    Parent
    I was surprised (none / 0) (#33)
    by cawaltz on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 03:57:48 PM EST
    they didn't ask for DNA. The government in it's defense seems content for us to just provide our social security numbers to put us in some datafile to show we have insurance(and yes this year they sent us paperwork asking us to verify them so it could be reported back we had insurance.)

    I guess they are getting a jumpstart on that databank that will say whether or not you have insurance.

    Parent

    Second thought... (none / 0) (#34)
    by kdog on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 04:00:03 PM EST
    I don't think I was clear...I'm not talking about legitimately covering uninsured folks under our plans, I'm talking about lettin' an uninsured cat who looks like me use my insurance since I'm healthy (bless the sun god), assuming my identity for healthcare purposes.  We could set up a webpage pairing up healthy insured people with their uninsured sickly look-alike and scam the sh*t out of these bastards right back.

    At the very least it might bring this situation to a head, leading to a real solution.

    Parent

    Like Spy Magazine's (none / 0) (#38)
    by shoephone on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 04:21:23 PM EST
    "Separated at Birth."

    Parent
    That is already being done with Medic aid (none / 0) (#47)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 05:28:37 PM EST
    and I would guess with insurance...

    Anyway, my clinic now requires a government approved photo ID.

    Parent

    Mike Judges new film (none / 0) (#11)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 03:12:30 PM EST
    Extract came in at number 9 at the BO last weekend.
    looks like many of his other fans (like me) were lazy

    MA Senate seat (none / 0) (#17)
    by CST on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 03:23:49 PM EST
    The voices for Dukakis keep rising.  That would be a superb temporary replacement.  I hope you are listening Deval....

    Your mouth (none / 0) (#43)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 04:58:48 PM EST
    God's ears.

    Parent
    That might make me cancel... (none / 0) (#25)
    by kdog on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 03:42:01 PM EST
    my health insurance on spite...I swear all the man knows how to do is fine and arrest.

    ooooooooooohhhhhh (none / 0) (#30)
    by cawaltz on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 03:51:11 PM EST
    and we're going to get credits to help us pay for our insurance.......Now who in the world had this idea BEFORE Obama because it sounds so darn familiar?.......oh that's right.......his opponent, who the electorate didn't chose. It's soooooo nice that we are giving the GOP a consolation prize though. (striking head against desk because the whole point of the election was about Democrats ideas being implemented.)

    Parent
    the comment you are replying to (none / 0) (#35)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 04:02:29 PM EST
    was deleted. Overly long urls skew the site. Use the link button at the top of your comment box.

    Parent
    ACLU vs Google Books (none / 0) (#45)
    by DFLer on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 05:09:07 PM EST
    ACLU files brief...concerned that Google Books will offer no protection to readers vis a vis privacy about reading habits etc.

    More..see this article on ZDNet

    Tuesday Afternoon Open Thread | 67 comments (67 topical)

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