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What Will They Say When The Baucus Bill Is Gutted?

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Other Politics
Posted on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 08:29:20 AM EST
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The accomodationist wing of the "progressive blogosphere" has nice things to say about the Baucus proposal. Ezra Klein writes:

It'll be hard to say anything definitive on the Baucus proposal before we can see all the details. At the moment, Politico has the clearest rundown of what people think they know is in the plan. But in advance of the president's speech on Wednesday, we do seem to know Baucus's most crucial contribution to the debate: the number $900 billion. . . [T]hough it's less than one might hope, it's a lot more than many were beginning to fear. . . . The number I'd begun to hear was $700 billion.

My gawd. Did Ezra miss the stimulus bill sausage making? Set aside the basic flaw in the Baucus proposal - it has jettisoned the idea of competition from a public plan (the only part of reform that I think can work, I do not believe the US regulatory state can efficiently regulate the insurance industry). Even from Ezra's accomodationist perspective, he must know there is no way in hell the $900 billion number (btw, a large chunk of that comes from Medicare "savings") survives. Meanwhile Matt Yglesias incredibly compares the Baucus proposal to the Switzerland system. That defies belief.

Speaking for me only

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    What Will They Say When The Baucus Bill Is Gutted? | 55 comments (55 topical)

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    Credit where it's due (5.00 / 3) (#1)
    by andgarden on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 08:36:10 AM EST
    You called it.

    I just can't blog today now (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 08:36:36 AM EST
    I'm going to the beach I guess and stick my head in the sand.  I think I need to go to Destin to do this too so that I can tell myself that this sand is representative of how terrific my country is and this is how happy and cared for everyone is in it.

    ((((MT)))) (5.00 / 5) (#6)
    by cawaltz on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 08:48:56 AM EST
    I've come to the conclusion the best part of this country is my family and the majority of people who comprise it. It positively kills me that we have a government that appears so apathetic to the needs of its citizenry. It makes the 12 years I spent in uniform protecting and defending the government seem like a waste at times. I have to remind myself that when I put that uniform on I wasn't just defending the position of Senator Baucus but defending the rights of people who disagree with him to have their say.

    Enjoy your day at the beach. The fight will be here when you get back.

    Parent

    Heavy sigh. (5.00 / 4) (#4)
    by inclusiveheart on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 08:45:30 AM EST
    The reality is that the only system that really will work is single payer.  The public option is the consolation prize.  The rest is more ineffective junk that will prove the GOP right when they say that government is too inept and inefficient to deliver services to its citizens.  If we were to ever get to an honest debate about the definition of a public option, I am convinced based on what has happened so far that it too would be set up to fail.

    Were we to provide low cost basic preventative care and access to everyone in America, we'd be making a real difference.  This debate has gotten totally diverted - it is off topic - who cares about how warm and fuzzy the parties are???  Really who cares?  The issue is not about whether or not we all can be "friends".  The issue is whether or not we can care for ourselves and our country.  At the moment, we are doing a horrible job of really looking at the systemic failures and finding real solutions for repairing/reversing very destructive trends.  One would think that people like Ezra would have some big picture perspective on this situation and, yet, based on his recent commentary he really doesn't.  There really is so much more to this issue than whether or not little Timmy gets a heart transplant.  Of course, that's important, but there is an aggregate effect that consistent standards in healthcare would yield for our society as a whole that would be very positive and productive.  $700 Billion, $900B, whatever - it is an INVESTMENT - why can't people understand that concept?

    Americans are only interested (5.00 / 4) (#10)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 08:53:12 AM EST
    in taxing the french fry cook at McDonalds because he owes us for being such a low life, while he gets nothing.  He doesn't even get a thank you.  And we still pay a price for this incredibly disgusting nonsystem.  I'd rather pay for something that did great things and lifted my nation up, made it a better place for all.  But nope, I'll pay and I'll pay more for this crappy gross inequality and discounting of human life.  I guess its just the collateral damage of capitalism.

    Parent
    Capitalism isn't so bad. (5.00 / 3) (#16)
    by inclusiveheart on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 09:01:42 AM EST
    It is the cronyism that is killing us.  The reality is that if Congress had not done back flips to protect the private health insurers' profit margins over the past 20 years, those businesses wouldn't exist at all.  Health insurance is not a money maker if you are actually delivering on the healthcare coverage.  In the purest sense of capitalism, those entities have no business being in that business.  This is why sometimes I think that the next step towards a real and effective plan is to go all free market on the health insurers - and that means lifting any and all tort "reforms" that protect them as well as allowing anyone and everyone to start their own insurance concerns and co-ops totally without government regulation or exclusive rights - AND letting people change insurers hourly if they so choose.  Then we'd see how profitable a real capitalist model would be for the private insurers.  

    Parent
    I think I'm out of here for the day (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 09:08:00 AM EST
    But can't help noticing that once again you have tracked the reality of policy and politics for such a period of time that you have a lot of the skinny on how we got here.  And twenty years of the incremental failings of our leaders during a trend of corporate loving that trumped all common sense or duty to their constituents.

    Parent
    Say hi to that sugar sand for me. (5.00 / 3) (#21)
    by inclusiveheart on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 09:12:56 AM EST
    I'd be going to the beach if I could too.  The fact is that these people have worn me out.  Unfortunately, my level of cynicism is growing daily.  I keep telling myself that we can make a difference, but I keep thinking that I am probably full of it given the way these characters are acting.

    Parent
    God, I just read Atrios (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 09:52:28 AM EST
    Who reminds us that nobody really cares if the election in Afghanistan were fraudulent and that we installed Karzia and he'll be there for as long as he wants to be there :)  My spouse called from Benning last night, doing a train up.  I was impressed with the equipment that Ft Rucker sent home with him for his leaving but he said last night that the stuff Benning gave him is literally unbelieveable.  Gone is what they used the "bear suit" that you used to wear in cold weather and you could barely move in.  Now it is a very multi layering system of Gortex, and sweat wicking coolmax, and thermal fabrics that you can move in that would blow your mind. And he is a serious snowboarder so he would know. And a special military Danner hiking boot for all Afghanistan soldiers,also excellent eye protection.  His only complaint was that all the information and instructions kept calling him a "war fighter".  He said last night that the last thing a successful soldier is is a "war fighter", but Generals like to say it.  It has the same affect on them that hyenas experience saying "Mufasa".

    Parent
    LOL on the warfighter terminology (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by ruffian on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 09:56:27 AM EST
    That's exactly what I hear at work. The new buzzword. I was wondering how someone like your husband, ie. the real deal, felt about it.

    I'm glad the equipment is good. It does sound like my skiwear from back in the day.  All my best to him, and you and the family too of course.

    Parent

    From what I've seen and heard (none / 0) (#35)
    by scribe on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 10:14:19 AM EST
    from people there, the stuff is better than the best snowboarder-winter outdoors stuff.

    And to think, when my friends went through Ranger school, a set of polypropylene long johns was something to kill for.  Assuming they could be found anywhere, at any price, in the first place.

    Parent

    What is it with soldiers and long johns? (none / 0) (#55)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 05:08:01 PM EST
    Do you know how many sets of various long johns are "stored" in this household now once they are found? He swore to me that now that he has exceptional alternatives and a source....that this store is going away.  I extracted this promise from him last night while he was bragging.  It is almost never less than 70 degrees but this household contains some crazy stores of long underwear!

    Parent
    Heavy sigh 2 (5.00 / 7) (#24)
    by ruffian on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 09:40:49 AM EST
    I'm just floored by the 'great' speeches on the need for health care reform paired with rejecting out of hand the only way to get to a sustainable, fair system: single payer.

    Obama and Ezra are going through mental gymnastics worthy of a gold medal to convince themselves and the American people that health care can be reformed and costs brought down by continued, and even increasing, reliance on the very system that is crippling us now: private insurance.

    They have no courage of their convictions whatsoever. Never even tried to tell Americans how badly they are being screwed by the insurance they supposedly like so much.

    Parent

    They can't (none / 0) (#14)
    by cawaltz on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 08:57:51 AM EST
    because leadership has done a poor job connecting the dots in the debate. They got sidetracked by rationing and death panels.

    Obama needed to make people understand that Medicare is already paying out more than it is taking in, widening the deficit as it stands. Obama needed to point out that the cost of programs like SCHIP and the expansion of it, which the majority has supported doing, is going to continue to take a larger and larger chunk of money as health care costs grow exponentially without some sort of control measure. He needed to point out that Medicaid also covered by federal spending will also be impacted by a do nothing approach to health care. The simple fact of the matter is keeping a status quo system or changing it is going to cost future citizenry one way or another.

    Instead of doing that there seems to be a push to make health care be about personal narratives(which are compelling)rather than a two prong approach which talks about the price of doing nothing vs. the cost of changing the system to something that works for the citizenry and government.

    Parent

    I believe that Obama needed to tell (5.00 / 7) (#17)
    by inclusiveheart on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 09:06:11 AM EST
    people that they could have decent basic coverage for $100-$200 a month if they would accept a comprehensive and universal single payer system.

    We've focused on the deficits too much and not enough on the end goal - although as we have gone through this debate I have come to suspect that Obama's end goal is either very different from mine or that he doesn't have a freakin' clue what he really wants - either way I have little patience for how his administration has handled both the debate and the policy.

    Parent

    He needed to (5.00 / 4) (#19)
    by cawaltz on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 09:11:39 AM EST
    explain to them they would incur a pretty much one time cost fee that would save them money in the long run because deficits would be smaller and premiums contained. He should have done it by paralelling making improvements on your house to improve energy efficiency.

    The system we have is inefficient. The facts were on his side. He just didn't use them.

    Parent

    He made me laugh out loud when he (5.00 / 6) (#23)
    by inclusiveheart on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 09:27:42 AM EST
    told Americans to go to their doctor in the event that they thought that they might have swine flu.  I laughed out loud.

    He missed a golden opportunity there to show how public health and healthcare access are inextricably linked.  If and when we have a real pandemic under the current system, there will be much more death and destruction than there has to be.  It is really pretty ridiculous given the fact that we are supposed to be a "first world" country etc.

    Parent

    Well (5.00 / 6) (#8)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 08:49:22 AM EST
    I'm getting too angry and I think I'm going to have to quit talking about this subject now. If the Baucus plan passes as it is (and another poster linked to the hill stating that the PC is now going to cave) I'm sitting out the next two elections. Of course, I dont think that anyone will really care since I live in Ga. This plan is going to literally make unemployment worse. I spend $10,000 a year on premiums alone. I would rather use that money to buy a car or help out industry in this country but since Obama sees fit to continue to cater to an industry that raises my premiums by about 10% per year he can forget any help with the economy from me and lots of others in my situation.

    Call the congress critters and tell them (none / 0) (#15)
    by cawaltz on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 09:00:10 AM EST
    exactly that. Let them know they enjoy a majority due to your time and effort. Either they expend the time and effort or they can forget about your continued support. The worst that happens is they continue to igore you, the best, they realize their folly and vote to try and keep their six figure income and perks.

    Parent
    I guess Ezra would still be (5.00 / 3) (#12)
    by MO Blue on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 08:55:52 AM EST
    happy if the bill just handed the $900 billion directly to the insurance industry just as long as the number is there. Would make the bill shorter. Example:

    Health Insurance Reform Bill #Ezra1

    The government of the U.S. will pay the insurance industry, Pharma etc $900 billion over the next ten years. We will pay for it by cutting the Medicare budget $400 billion over the same period and by taxing Cadillac Insurance plans. The insurance industry is given permission to increase their rates at will. The sky is the limit.

    In return for this, the insurance industry, Pharma etc. agrees to pay nice.

    Actually my example of Health Insurance Reform Bill #Ezra1 is real, real close to the President Snowe bill presented by Baucus.

    Garbage (5.00 / 3) (#20)
    by mmc9431 on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 09:11:59 AM EST
    I just got an e-mail from FDL. Jane sums it up better than I can:

    Over the weekend, Max Baucus, the Senate "Democrat" holding up health care reform for the insurance industry, came out with his health care reform plan.  Frankly, it's garbage - no public option, no big reforms.

    She's urging everyone to call their reps.

    Sorry, I disagree (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by dk on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 09:15:14 AM EST
    with Jane.  It is not Baucus who is holding up health care reform.

    But I have nothing against calling reps.

    Parent

    Also agree (5.00 / 3) (#25)
    by mmc9431 on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 09:48:17 AM EST
    No it's not Baucus, It Obama. He is the party leader and he sets the agenda.

    By sitting on the side lines, Obama has allowed his own party to fracture. How many of these Blue Dogs would have stood up so forcefully against him if he had taken the leadership role?

    Obama's approach has been to give everyone as much political cover as possible rather than working towards a solution to the HCR crisis.

    Parent

    I wonder when Jane will notice? (none / 0) (#54)
    by Pacific John on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 01:21:55 PM EST
    She's great at firing off impassioned posts and emails, but she ran willingly into Obamacorp's veal pen, and still can't bring herself into admitting Obama is anything but a passive participant.

    Parent
    What Part of 'I work for the Insurance Industry' (5.00 / 5) (#26)
    by kidneystones on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 09:49:50 AM EST
    do people here not understand? Obama already cut a deal with big pharma, before the dog and pony show.

    This isn't a run of the mill sell-out. This is Dems calling a fix for the insurance industry 'reform', exactly like Bush would have done. And because the crap sandwich is being handed to America by Dems, guess who gets to pay the price when the public figures out the bill takes care of big business, while denying the poor and others to a public plan?

    Where is the progressive argument for a simple government run plan, available to any citizen who wants it? How complicated can this be?

    Ezra and Matt are Next Generation Villagers and the sell-out at the top is the 2009 version of the guy you'd want to have a beer with. You'd think with all those troops headed into the ME, rather than back to the US, ordinary dfhs might have figured this out by now.

    But, no. They think they're still seated at the table; when in reality they're sitting on the floor, of the garage, in a shack down the street in the Michigan rust-belt.

    Hard times.

    This is where (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by cawaltz on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 09:57:58 AM EST
    we need to seriously start talking about strategy and the idea that continuing to vote for a party regardless of whether it is actually acting in your best interest might come in. I sure hope we have it before 2010 or 2012.

    Parent
    First and foremost (3.00 / 2) (#36)
    by kidneystones on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 10:18:52 AM EST
    Folks have to figure out what they want and I've read better ideas on this thread than I have anywhere else. This isn't rocket science. Government enters the market with a great big footprint and offers to provide free, or very inexpensive health-care, to anyone without a job or the means to pay for private care.

    Healthy people work harder, get sick less frequently, do better at school and generally make better life-style decisions. Win-win-win-win.

    I agree that a move towards independent status for  progressives is long over-due. Right now, there's no downside to ignoring progressive demands. Much as I respect BTD, he's always going to fall into line when his political masters yank his chain come election time. He'll yell, but fall into line. His choice. Others may wish to wait to see what's really on the table; or exact some serious contract before votes are cast.

    Parent

    I'm one of those (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by cawaltz on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 10:26:41 AM EST
    horrible folks like you that voted for the opposition. I feared we would end up exactly where we are today. I would have preferred to be wrong.

    In the interim, I'm trying to help fight the metaphorical tide.

    Here is to hoping that at least a large portion of the party starts to recognize what Clinton said when he said that rather than focus on party identity people would be better served to focus on issues and push in that direction. We do not do ourselves any justice when we become a veritable rubber stamp. We can't undue what has been done but we can learn from it.

    Parent

    full (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by kidneystones on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 10:38:13 AM EST
    disclosure. I'm a UK/Canadian citizen and refugee from the Orange Satan. I started blogging there in 2006 to try to help in some tiny way to repair some of the damage done by Bush.

    I was reflexively against all Republicans and condemned them in the harshest terms. At the same time, I reminded myself that if there were no George Bush, Dems would have had to invent one to hang all their own sins upon.

    I'd love to see Obama succeed. Really. Do I trust them? Well, I like to think I'm not stupid, or at least that stupid.

    I live in Japan with my family now. We have a mix of public and private insurance. Can be done. Peace.

    Parent

    No need for insults. It's (5.00 / 2) (#51)
    by oldpro on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 12:29:13 PM EST
    enough to mention how hard it is to give up longstanding loyalities to a political party.  I know.  I invested 55 years and at least $50K of my own hard-earned, low-income wages in the Democrats and they finally broke me at last year's primary and convention.  I'm out.  Getting quite crowded here under the bus.

    We all have our breaking points.  You have no more idea of what BTD's might be than you did about mine...or anyone's but your own.  So, enuf already with the side trips to insultland.

    When sticking to the subject, I appreciate your thoughts...and thanks for the full disclosure.  Since you're not in 'the line of fire,' it makes it easier to insult those who are.  Resist the impulse.

    Parent

    No insult intended (none / 0) (#56)
    by kidneystones on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 07:13:23 PM EST
    Just a pointed reminder that you aren't the first and won't be the last to go through the same experience.

    For the record, when I was in Canada we supported a real socialist party, the kind that now sends some folks scurrying to the tea-parties.

    The fight, IMHO, is never won or lost. The battle lines simply change. I agree with Feingold, in practical terms. Trying to win anything with this President and this congress (many actively working for the insurance industry and big farmer) at the national level is a pipe dream. That doesn't change the fact that the answers and the agenda have to come from folks like you.

    You've got nothing but my gratitude and respect.

    Peace.

    Parent

    Not the first, won't be the last.... (none / 0) (#57)
    by oldpro on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 08:58:09 PM EST
    no kidding.  I do know that!

    The insults I was talking about were not to me but to BTD...and if you do not recognize that those comments were insulting, well, jeez louise...they clearly were.  I'd have been insulted if you had been addressing me, you can trust me on that.

    I also agree that the battle lines change...so do the citizen/soldiers who engage the battles...fewer and fewer with less and less knowledge, from my point of view.  Sad to watch, locally and nationally.

    Parent

    My political masters? (none / 0) (#39)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 10:36:03 AM EST
    Yank my chain?

    Eff you.

    Parent

    Gee (none / 0) (#44)
    by kidneystones on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 10:45:00 AM EST
    and I thought you were sleeping.

    How would you prefer I put it?

    You'll reassess your priorities and determine that given all the variables and possibilities, the best objective decision you can make is: vote Dem.

    Axelrod understands you better than you think. You're always going to vote Dem. Right?

    If not, then my post is grotesquely wrong. However, if Dems can count on your vote no matter what, I stand by my assessment. As long as Hoyer can count on you no matter what, he can ignore you.

    That's what's happening now.

    Parent

    I would prefer you stop lying about me (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 10:49:00 AM EST
    I have no political masters.

    sheesh. I make no money from politics. who the hell do you think I respond to.

    I respond to me. No one else.

    Disagree with me. But stop lying about me.

    Parent

    Fair enough (none / 0) (#46)
    by kidneystones on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 11:01:54 AM EST
    I don't think you do answer to any individual. The phrase 'political masters'; is meant to represent political loyalties. You'll still end up giving Hoyer your support at election time no matter what kind of crap bill Dems send out, but you won't be answering to him as your political master.

    Better?

    Parent

    Are you sure you're (none / 0) (#48)
    by prittfumes on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 11:17:42 AM EST
    not confusing BTD with "someone" else?

    Parent
    The Old Man and the Sea (5.00 / 5) (#31)
    by eliz0414 on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 10:05:07 AM EST
    For some reason Hemmingway's The Old Man and the Sea is haunting me this morning.  As I recall, Santiago, after going 84 days without taking a fish, goes far out to sea and catches a huge marlin. He then undergoes an epic struggle with the sea and the sharks in his effort to keep the big fish and bring it to shore. He succeeds, but by the time he gets to shore, there's nothing left of the fish but a skeleton.

    Wow (none / 0) (#34)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 10:13:17 AM EST
    Great analogy there.  Exactly right.  Well said.

    Parent
    Money talks (5.00 / 2) (#32)
    by mmc9431 on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 10:05:24 AM EST
    Politician's selling out to big business. I'm shocked!!

    Our entire political structure is based on who can pay the most. And now the Supreme Court is in position to make it even cozier for big business.

    Until we get public financing for elections, we're trapped in this downward spiral.

    I'd like to see an (none / 0) (#33)
    by cawaltz on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 10:09:37 AM EST
    amendment to the constitution proposed that simply states money does not equal speech. Heck, it would be more germaine to most of us then a flag burning amendment or a gay marriage amendment.

    Parent
    Josh Marshall escaped from kidnappers (5.00 / 3) (#40)
    by MO Blue on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 10:36:16 AM EST
    long enough to post this (snark only on WKJM):

    Am I the only one who thinks that if the Dems pass a bill with mandates and subsidies for poor and moderate income people to purchase it but no public option or competition with the insurers, that it will be pretty much a catastrophe for the Democrats in political terms. FDL

    I thought a couple of comments on the thread were amusing (warped sense of humor?:

    First it was, "Do you want 'something' or `nothing'"?
    Now it's "Do you want `nothing' or "worse than nothing"? That's easy. I'll take "nothing".
    Send that crap sandwich back to the kitchen.

    This is getting very weird, but I can almost imagine joining forces with the Right to defeat it if this is the final bill.
    Hold hands with Republicans singing We Shall Overcome and Obama finally gets his post-partisan Unity!
    It's going to come down to a duel (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by Anne on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 12:18:24 PM EST
    between the "Hey, It's Better Than Nothing!" wing, and the "Better To Do Nothing Than Pass This Cr@p!" wing, and guess who's going to assess and then run up to the head of the Better-than-Nothing line?  Would bet my last nickel that it'll be Obama.  And so the OFB will dutifully fall in.

    Ugh.

    With my computer issues at home, keeping me out of the loop since Friday afternoon,and now on vacation, where until my husband configured his laptop for wireless to keep me happy in the face of what looks like a week of clouds and showers at the beach I was hoping to be sitting on with a good book, I was beginning to - gasp! - forget about, and possibly not even care a whole lot about, this unbelievably ridiculous and ultimately - I believe - doomed-to-fail effort at reform.  "Reform."  There's a word that will never mean what it used to,lol.

    But here I am - hubby went out this morning and bought me a WaPo - stage one of blood pressure rise - and now I'm online and blood pressure is no doubt in the stratosphere again.

    Am sort of thinking of being one of those sad people who sit on the beach even in the gloom because it's my vacation, dammit!.  The effect of the sound and sight of ocean waves breaking has to be more relaxing!

    Parent

    Sight and sound of waves (none / 0) (#52)
    by oldpro on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 12:39:36 PM EST
    breaking...can be relaxing or not.  Living here on a saltwater bay with tides and big-ship traffic nearby, I get it all.  I find that most relaxing of all is a non-storm .ebbtide or tidal change from low to high, when the herons come to hunt and feed and the shorebirds chatter up a storm.

    Here on the left coast, I realize...that's why they called it the Pacific.  It's not always, of course, but it can lull you into a nap or a surprising sense of tranquility.

    You don't even have to be outdoors!  Sitting inside, with doors and windows open...works for me.

    Parent

    Agree with the duel aspect (none / 0) (#53)
    by MO Blue on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 01:08:06 PM EST
    of your post. I think that the chances of getting anything even remotely like real health care are pretty dismal. Trying to believe that there is a glimmer of hope that the Progressive Caucus will not vote for anything really bad. I guess I need to believe that.

    Luckily I am genetically blessed with low pressure. Find I'm gritting my teeth more and more every day.

    Keep telling myself that I need to stay away from the computer because this whole thing is driving me crazy. Maybe, tomorrow.

    Parent

    What will they say (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by mmc9431 on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 10:36:20 AM EST
    They say any bill is better than no bill and tout it as a victory. Then they'll dangle the carrot in front of us by saying how they'll fix it after we reelect Obama in 2012. (Just like FISA DOMA DADT just to name a few).

    And now Ezra is just being (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by andgarden on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 11:13:09 AM EST
    dishonest.

    His refusal to see insurance companies as the bad actors they are is really telling.

    Is there real reason to think (none / 0) (#3)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 08:45:11 AM EST
    the Baucus bill is what everybody's going to rally around and pass?  Hardly seems likely to me, but what do I know.  It seems so glaringly, obviously inadequate and impossible, I was wondering whether Baucus had essentially thrown up his hands on the absurd idea of getting something viable out of the "Gang of six" process.

    Yes, I believe that it is a real possibility (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by inclusiveheart on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 08:47:18 AM EST
    that the congresscritters will rationalize support for a crap bill by saying that they had to pass "something".

    Parent
    Not as long as the Progressive Block says no (5.00 / 6) (#7)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 08:49:02 AM EST
    But if someone, say the President or the Speaker, pretends it is a starting point, then it will be the bill.

    There is a reason why I pick on Ezra and Matt - they have been trying to kill discussion of the Public Option for months now.

    Parent

    I just posted below (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 08:55:59 AM EST
    That CNN couldn't wait to quote Ezra this morning.

    Parent
    It is a sad day (none / 0) (#50)
    by cenobite on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 12:20:44 PM EST
    When Ezra Klein is the leftward limit of acceptable discourse.


    Parent
    Man (none / 0) (#9)
    by lilburro on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 08:52:36 AM EST
    Ezra and Obama both ran into the negotiation room screaming "I'll take anything!!"  The helplessness is obnoxious.  And no trigger even?

    And CNN couldn't wait to quote Ezra (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 08:55:11 AM EST
    this morning.  Pretty repulsive in my book.

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    Ezra (5.00 / 6) (#30)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Sep 08, 2009 at 10:03:47 AM EST
    was sitting right there at the table when Maria Bartiromo snidely asked 45 year old Rep Weiner why he wasn't on Medicare....Ezra said nothing.  

    He's not a Villager, he's a village idiot.

    Parent

    What Will They Say When The Baucus Bill Is Gutted? | 55 comments (55 topical)

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