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Tuesday Afternoon Open Thread

Polls close in Massachusetts in 2 hours. I'm told that there is no exit polling going on so we'll have to see the vote count to see how it went. Of course, no exit polls means everyone gets to spin the results anyway they want.

Unfortunately for me, I won't get to spin until late tonight, as I am at the airport right now waiting for my flight. I think Jeralyn is arguing a motion this afternoon.

Give us your spin here.

This is an Open Thread.

< NBC Poll: Only 33% Favor Health Bill | Mass. Senate Election Returns: Live Thread >
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    The public (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by jbindc on Tue Jan 19, 2010 at 05:09:30 PM EST
    has grown more skeptical of Obama and his policies.

    But as Obama wraps up his first full year in office, the American public has grown increasingly skeptical over his promises to change Washington and his "yes-we-can" agenda, according to the latest NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll.

    A plurality of Americans believe his health care overhaul is a bad idea; fewer than one in five are satisfied with the economy; just 30 percent give him good marks on changing business as usual in Washington; and a majority think he has accomplished "very little" or "only some" of his goals over the past 12 months.

    SNIP

    In the poll -- which was conducted between Jan. 10 and Jan. 14 of 1,002 adults with a margin of error of plus or minus 3.1 percentage points -- Americans appear to have two different views of the president: They like him personally, but are more doubtful about his positions on the issues.

    A combined three-quarters say they personally like Obama, and 52 percent have a positive view of him, compared with 35 percent who have a negative one.

    In addition, he receives his highest scores on being easy-going and likeable (a combined 72 percent), being inspirational and exciting (59 percent), having strong leadership qualities (57 percent), being honest and straightforward (51 percent) and representing traditional American values (51 percent).

    But Obama gets lower scores on the professional aspects of his job -- being a firm and decisive decision-maker (49 percent), being a good commander in chief (49 percent), being knowledgeable and experienced (47 percent), uniting the country (40 percent), achieving his goals (40 percent), sharing Americans' positions on the issues (38 percent), and changing "business as usual" in Washington (30 percent).



    Singer Kate McGarrrigle dead at 63 (5.00 / 3) (#5)
    by caseyOR on Tue Jan 19, 2010 at 05:14:17 PM EST
    Folk singer Kate McGarrigle died yesterday of cancer. Kate performed and recorded with her sister Anna. She was the mother of Rufus and Martha Wainwright. She had a beautiful voice.

    h/t Susie Madrak

    What a shame, love the sisters McGarrigle (none / 0) (#8)
    by Ellie on Tue Jan 19, 2010 at 05:19:39 PM EST
    True folkies with a beautiful body of work. RIP Kate.

    Parent
    awwww (none / 0) (#15)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jan 19, 2010 at 05:22:08 PM EST
    the McGarrigle Hour with Louden and Rufus and the whole gang is one of my desert island CDs


    Parent
    With 60: No Public Option (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by kidneystones on Tue Jan 19, 2010 at 05:36:09 PM EST
    Half-Ass straddle in Afghanistan. Cash for Wall st, not for Main St. 30% support for current HCR.

    Waking-up now is what voters want Dem to do. But no, some Dems and the WH think the problem is Coakley, or her campaign.

    Nobody wants 10% unemployment. That's simply unacceptable. Nobody wants this cruddy HC bill. It's a millstone.

    Abortion is a big issue for a lot of voters, at least as big as same-sex marriage, or legalizing pot.

    Feingold observed several years ago that he was not then convinced a national system was the way to go. He's backed off that position to get wit the 'team'. But considering the 'team' plan is about to cost Dems an important seat, maybe Dems who are actually committed to getting the job done better start applying themselves to getting the job done.

    All that happens if Brown wins is that the current level of incompetence comes into sharp focus. Coakley pulls it out and the fuzziness and sense of 'relief' returns.

    Someone on another thread observed this isn't about making Dems feel good about being Dems.

    Imagine how different things might be now had Dems actually funded jobs projects directly, WPA style, rather than cut checks for big banks and Wall st. I've lived all my life in countries with national health plans. I'm not convinced that Feingold was wrong. I've visited the US often and spent quite a bit of time in MA,

    Nothing is more important to the Americans I know than a job. It isn't clear that Dems will wake up to that fact even if Coakley loses. If she wins it's back to fantasy island. If Dems can't bring the unemployment rate to 6-7-8% by the summer, voters have every right to insist upon 'change'.

    The buck stops you know where.

    Concur for the most part. (5.00 / 2) (#77)
    by brodie on Tue Jan 19, 2010 at 07:16:25 PM EST
    Dissent:  A better pol and more experienced campaigner could have won this one even with the ugly political backdrop.

    This has got to be a wake up call to Obama and cong'l Dems to get going on jobs, and on going after Wall Street banksters in a more than slap-on-wrist way.

    Obama I suspect will be under increasing pressure from Dems up for re-elect this year to do something much more substantial than a weak and unpopular HCR bill to get the base energized.

    Parent

    Agreed: Strike Three! (none / 0) (#80)
    by kidneystones on Tue Jan 19, 2010 at 07:26:50 PM EST
    The WH will try to brazen a close win, a narrow defeat, or a blow-out as an 'isolated' event.

    Problem is, a Dem loss is the third major loss in a row for Dems. The Media needs a new narrative and have been treated like dirt by the WH.

    Matthews, KO, and company have nowhere to run.

    The buck stops where?

    Parent

    Oh, mark your calendars. (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by KeysDan on Tue Jan 19, 2010 at 05:53:01 PM EST
    February 4, 2010, National Prayer Breakfast--sponsored by Fellowship Foundation/The Family.  Special Guest, David Bahati, of Uganda, and author of "Kill the Gays" legislative proposal.   Organizers hope that President Obama and Congressional legislators will attend, which, I guess,  will be OK, as long as it is fair and balanced with a special guest who opposes killing gays--so we can evaluate the two points of view.

    Stupak, Ensign, who else? (none / 0) (#42)
    by oculus on Tue Jan 19, 2010 at 05:55:34 PM EST
    Chuck Grassley, Tom Coburn (none / 0) (#43)
    by KeysDan on Tue Jan 19, 2010 at 06:00:28 PM EST
    If I were going to start primarying (none / 0) (#69)
    by cawaltz on Tue Jan 19, 2010 at 07:06:47 PM EST
    the people belonging to this group would be where I started.

    Parent
    Bahati is not... (none / 0) (#44)
    by Tony on Tue Jan 19, 2010 at 06:00:47 PM EST
    or not (none / 0) (#45)
    by CST on Tue Jan 19, 2010 at 06:01:21 PM EST
    Bahati declined the invite.  Which was issued before he sponsored this legislation.

    Parent
    Well, if Bahati can't attend (none / 0) (#48)
    by KeysDan on Tue Jan 19, 2010 at 06:22:09 PM EST
    I feel that he will be there in spirit---after all what is a Prayer Breakfast without a  fierce advocate for "kill the gays?"

    Parent
    Is Nelson over the Nebraska Pizzeria Debacle yet? (none / 0) (#50)
    by Ellie on Tue Jan 19, 2010 at 06:26:15 PM EST
    Given his excess piety (lg, heavy on the cheese), he'll no doubt be there.

    Nebraska Sen. Ben Nelson and his wife were leaving dinner at a new pizza joint near their home in Omaha one night last week when a patron began complaining about Nelson's decisive vote in favor of the Senate's health care bill.

    Other customers started booing. A woman yelled, "Get him the hell out of here!" And the Nelsons and their dining companions beat a hasty retreat.

    "It was definitely a scene in there," said Tom Lewis, a 41-year-old dentist and registered Republican who witnessed the incident. A second witness confirmed the incident to POLITICO.




    Parent
    That's awesome... (none / 0) (#62)
    by kdog on Tue Jan 19, 2010 at 06:52:15 PM EST
    "It was definitely a scene in there,"

    I gotta give props to any pizza joint that doesn't abide that kinda riff-raff in their establishment.

    Parent

    Seriously, how much lower can a guy fall? (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by Ellie on Tue Jan 19, 2010 at 07:09:48 PM EST
    Bad enough having to get his pizza in Nebraska in the first place. (Back off byotches I have the ancestral right to be a snob about this.)

    And after this (TL posted Ben Nelson's Woes Continue) [/freudenfreuden]

    Parent

    I refrained... (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by kdog on Tue Jan 19, 2010 at 07:29:08 PM EST
    from mocking their pizza just cuz I was so proud of Omaha.

    I'm really buying into the Masel Theorem now...maybe senators really do get elected by people just to get them outta state...it would explain so much that perplexes me.

    Parent

    Ha. Yeh, I have this hankering (none / 0) (#67)
    by Cream City on Tue Jan 19, 2010 at 07:01:46 PM EST
    to head up to the Yoo Pee near me and seek out Stupak at some Northwoods bar, sitting below the stuffed heads of wildlife creatures, so as to heckle him.  But nah, I'm still just watching for word of a worthy opponent, so I can send a check.

    To the opponent, that is. :-)

    Parent

    If there's a guy at the bar wearing a Moose Head (none / 0) (#78)
    by Ellie on Tue Jan 19, 2010 at 07:21:00 PM EST
    ... it's probably Stupak out for some quiet time (where his beer won't freeze.)

    I'd heckle him just to be on the safe side.

    Parent

    Obama (none / 0) (#61)
    by lentinel on Tue Jan 19, 2010 at 06:50:42 PM EST
    would be a welcome guest I'm sure.

    He could repeat his memorable testimonial to panderdom:

    "I'm a Christian. And so, although I try not to have my religious beliefs dominate or determine my political views on this issue, I do believe that tradition, and my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman."

    Maybe he could have this set to music.
    He has a fine tenor voice, I'm told.

    Parent

    spin (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by CST on Tue Jan 19, 2010 at 06:49:55 PM EST
    has already started.  Obama too big of a lefty.  People didn't want big government.  He misread his mandate and went too far to the left.

    I hate the MSM.

    Polls close in 10 min.

    Hah! (5.00 / 2) (#64)
    by CST on Tue Jan 19, 2010 at 06:56:52 PM EST
    Chris Matthews is reporting from "Doyle's" in JP.

    AWESOME

    Typical PR job from (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by brodie on Tue Jan 19, 2010 at 07:05:43 PM EST
    Multimillionaire Matthews, the guy with the large-sized salary and large-sized summer home on Nantucket.  He loves to pretend he's just an average guy and in touch with the common man.

    Parent
    Doyle's is the perfect place (none / 0) (#71)
    by CST on Tue Jan 19, 2010 at 07:07:27 PM EST
    it's where a lot of local politicians go to seem like they are "everyman".

    Parent
    Drinking game: How many times Tweety mentions (none / 0) (#74)
    by Ellie on Tue Jan 19, 2010 at 07:13:49 PM EST
    ... "offhand" that he's a Catholic, as shorthand for cred for being a man of the peeps tethered to the regular guy/ "working class" brain.

    Parent
    off the tube now (none / 0) (#76)
    by CST on Tue Jan 19, 2010 at 07:16:02 PM EST
    probably getting drunk with some city councilors.

    Parent
    anyone know (none / 0) (#1)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jan 19, 2010 at 05:04:10 PM EST
    why no exit polls.  I have not been paying attention.

    According to NOR (none / 0) (#10)
    by Slado on Tue Jan 19, 2010 at 05:20:45 PM EST
    The media so thought this election was in the bag they didn't bother to organize any.

    Since it only go close a couple weeks ago they worried about setting them up so quickly and getting lousey results, ala 2004.

    Parent

    I meant NRO (none / 0) (#12)
    by Slado on Tue Jan 19, 2010 at 05:20:57 PM EST
    My honest assessment (none / 0) (#2)
    by andgarden on Tue Jan 19, 2010 at 05:06:09 PM EST
    1. Any Coakley win of less than 5% is a debacle. (Yes, we're already at that point.

    2. Any Coakley loss is a disaster.

    3. A Coakley loss by more than 5% is a disaster of unimaginable proportions.


    Which is worse (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by MKS on Tue Jan 19, 2010 at 06:24:55 PM EST
    debacle, disaster or disaster+.....

    I think we have achieved lift-off from debacle status and are reaching for the stars....

    What is worse than debacle+?

    Birch Bayh's son, the son of the man who wrote the Equal Rights Amendment, is now saying the Mass. race means the Dems have gone too far to the Left...

    I think Birch's son must have had lunch with Lieberman today.......That's my explanation....

    Parent

    maybe you should go out for (none / 0) (#3)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jan 19, 2010 at 05:09:02 PM EST
    vodka now.

    just sayin

    Parent

    Nah (none / 0) (#6)
    by andgarden on Tue Jan 19, 2010 at 05:17:12 PM EST
    The Republic will survive even this. I'm just again depressed by the opportunities we're about to miss.

    Parent
    Andgarden, I don't know (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by Zorba on Tue Jan 19, 2010 at 05:34:09 PM EST
    if this clip from the Daily Show will make you laugh about the Massachusetts situation, or perhaps make you more depressed.  I laughed my tuchus off because John Stewart was so hilarious, but so right (which makes it also so depressing).  Keep on keeping on- we'll get through this.  ;-)

    Parent
    Well said... (none / 0) (#9)
    by kdog on Tue Jan 19, 2010 at 05:19:54 PM EST
    beat me by less than a minute:)

    Parent
    Weren't they already missed? (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by Slado on Tue Jan 19, 2010 at 05:22:01 PM EST
    And isn't this the confirmation of what you already knew?

    Parent
    Oh we nearly always miss 'em (none / 0) (#22)
    by kdog on Tue Jan 19, 2010 at 05:29:40 PM EST
    I don't even know if we know what the knock sounds like brother...well said that the Republic will survive another senate election.

    This guys at my job has a saying, "we make money in spite of ourselves"...the republic survives in spite of itself.

    Parent

    Haiti is a disaster... (none / 0) (#7)
    by kdog on Tue Jan 19, 2010 at 05:17:58 PM EST
    this Coakley D vs. Brown R Ignore-The-Other-Names Bowl most closely resembles a sporting event... professional wrestling particularly.

    It only feels like disaster to spectators, like a Jet loss on Sunday will feel disasterous...in the big scheme it is inconsequential.  

    Parent

    Only if you think Congress doesn't matter (none / 0) (#13)
    by andgarden on Tue Jan 19, 2010 at 05:21:48 PM EST
    I do.

    Parent
    shes is (none / 0) (#17)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jan 19, 2010 at 05:24:43 PM EST
    gonna win

    Parent
    I'm not getting my hopes up (none / 0) (#23)
    by andgarden on Tue Jan 19, 2010 at 05:30:46 PM EST
    Congress matters... (none / 0) (#18)
    by kdog on Tue Jan 19, 2010 at 05:25:14 PM EST
    elections, as we exercise them, do not.  Elections are sporting events.  

    Parent
    With respect to the individual voter, (none / 0) (#26)
    by andgarden on Tue Jan 19, 2010 at 05:31:34 PM EST
    that is absolutely true. Overall, however, that is provably false.

    Parent
    Good perspective. I am so sad today (none / 0) (#24)
    by Cream City on Tue Jan 19, 2010 at 05:31:02 PM EST
    as are thousands in my town, but not just for Haiti.  We have had our own small-scale disaster here, a major five-alarm fire with smoke for miles, reaching me.  It took no lives, luckily -- but it did take to the ground an icon:  A funky pizza place in the former hippie neighborhood, a place with marvelously retro '60s hand-hewn decor, a place with one of the finest wine collections in the region.  A place of special memories for so many for decades now, with hundreds signing online today to recall it all.

    Some went only once in a lifetime but never forget the food, the service, the one-of-a-kind decor.  Others of us went often . . . but not often enough, as I had suggested to the family that we go a few nights ago, but all were too tired.  Darn it.  

    The historic old building had other good restaurants, too, and apartments upstairs where the fire started, it seems.  And it looks like arson.  If so, and the perp is caught, there may be calls to bring stocks back to the town square or a mass stoning by a stoned mob.

    It brings home to me the impact of the loss of even one building and a few businesses -- compared to the loss in Haiti.  We're a bit disoriented here, with the smell of smoke for a few miles, the electricity cut off for the day for a few blocks around (to cut wires for the tall fire ladders), and with a few streets blocked and a few bus lines rerouted.  Imagine all that and more extending for miles on miles.

    Parent

    At least no one perished.... (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by kdog on Tue Jan 19, 2010 at 06:19:55 PM EST
    It is sad to lose a beloved landmark, though the memories remain and such things can be rebuilt or replaced.

    And no I really can't imagine Haiti or Indonesia after the tsunami or any such massive devastation.  The closest I've gotten to any of that mess was 9/11.  Though it was right across the river, close enough to see and smell, and people from my hometown dead and many more mourning..it still felt a million miles away in some respects.  I can't imagine.  Doing your thing one second and the world crashing around you the next...no words CC.  

    Parent

    To Cream City - (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by noholib on Tue Jan 19, 2010 at 06:43:02 PM EST
    Local disasters are very painful too ... arson wreaked havoc in Northampton MA one night in late December ... several house and car fires set and some destroyed within one 75 minute period ... two people actually killed ... arson arrests are seldom made, but here with townspeople aroused -- both to help the surviving victims and to share information with the police--amazingly enough, an arrest was soon made. Of course,that's not the end of the story and much more remains to be done ... Still, something positive has emerged ... new neighborhood associations being formed, people reaching out with money, donations, and good will to help others ... So, wishing your town all the best and may some better aspects of the human spirit manifest themselves in your town too.

    Parent
    Aw, thanks, kdog and noholib (none / 0) (#66)
    by Cream City on Tue Jan 19, 2010 at 06:57:24 PM EST
    for understanding.  Now the comments with memories are in the many hundreds on the newspaper site, and Facebook pages are popping up, too.  The site still is so sad to see, and the building collapse so bad that the streets remain closed and the buses rerouted tomorrow, the newsies tell us.  (And this is the most densely populated area of the city, a campus area, so (a) lots of people including us are finding new routes, and (b) I have to worry if some of my students are among the displaced homeless, the ones without electricity and gas for the day, and a cold day it is.  My spouse just was at our library a block from the site, and the poor staff there stayed open all day in the dark and cold.

    We realized this hit us, too, because my spouse just came back from a weekend trip to his hometown, where he went to see the ruins of his childhood home, also hit by fire recently.  So much can be lost in just minutes. . . .

    But yes, hope springs eternal.  The pizza place owner tells us through the news that he sure hopes to rebuild or reopen nearby.  Aha, I can look forward to my King Crab Ala Darryl Pizza again!  (Don't ask.  It requires Alka-Seltzer on the side.:-)  I just hope he also can find stoned carpenters today to do the odd decor again -- sort of pseudo medieval Renaissance Faire with a soupcon of Woodstock Festival and a fillip of Northwoods Wisconsin bar.  You had to see it to believe it.  And then you had to see it again and again.  

    Parent

    Better a blowout now than (none / 0) (#11)
    by observed on Tue Jan 19, 2010 at 05:20:51 PM EST
    one across the board in November.
    My opinion is that the Dems have no chance of changing course without such a strong jolt.


    Parent
    I think (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jan 19, 2010 at 05:25:20 PM EST
    the message may have been received already

    Parent
    Not quite yet. (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by dk on Tue Jan 19, 2010 at 05:26:56 PM EST
    Pelosi said today they are still going to try to pass the health insurance company giveaway bill.

    But hopefully some people did get it.

    Parent

    Not sure that the Democrats will (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by KeysDan on Tue Jan 19, 2010 at 05:34:26 PM EST
    change course, other than to veer more to the right.  After all, Ms. Coakley was a "liberal" and even the Blue state of MA wanted a winger, will be part of the spin.  Of course, that will surely lead to a change in Congress, but I am not sure that President Obama would be all that upset by that--he probably will be more comfortable with the Republicans,  tap into their 'ideas', but blame them for all shortcomings, and permit him to preside.  

    Parent
    I have Great Confidence in the OFB (none / 0) (#34)
    by Dan the Man on Tue Jan 19, 2010 at 05:44:53 PM EST
    Brown would only serve until 2012 before he's up for re-election.  And since Obama would be on the ballot that year, any Democrat running against Brown would win due to OFB votes.

    Parent
    I suspect that in 2012 (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by cawaltz on Tue Jan 19, 2010 at 05:51:33 PM EST
    if Obama continues down the merry path he is going he may be out of the job rather than Brown.

    Parent
    No no (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by jbindc on Tue Jan 19, 2010 at 05:55:13 PM EST
    Obama's going to get tough now - didn't you hear?

    And say all you want about Politico - it's the quotes in this article that are very telling (and made m