home

"A Man's World"

From Sports Left --

No one can argue with that statement. But in context, Serena Williams saying it is jarring:

Q. Do you feel like it's a double standard that if some man had had the same reaction, they wouldn't have been fined as much?

SERENA WILLIAMS: Well, we live in a world that still, you know, men are, you know, just leading a lot of things, as well. In tennis I think we've been able to do really well with having fought so hard to get equal prize money. I think that's really good. But I think we still sort of, say, live in a man's world. [. . .]

More . . .

At the most basic level, Williams is right. Williams' actions at the U.S. Open are indefensible, but the reaction to her actions WOULD be different if they had come from a man. Consider the post tennis career of John McEnroe - the most consistently poorly behaved athlete of all time. He is the most recognized tennis analyst working. Believe me, that will not be Serena Williams' future. And it is not due to McEnroe's great insights. His work is obvious, boring and banal. Now the difference is not JUST because McEnroe is a man and Williams is a woman. But it is part of it. A big part of it.

The problem is Williams is using this legitimate point to defend her indefensible actions. She is unrepentant. She think she did nothing wrong. And there is the problem:

"I just think the whole incident (at the Open),'' she said, "was a learning experience.'' No, she's not talking about the same thing I am. In Williams' reality, what she learned is that it's a man's world. She said her punishment, a fine, for threatening to shove a ball down the line judge's throat was a double-standard, harsh because she's a woman. [. . .] In Williams' reality, she was the victim. And she wrote about it on her website, giving examples of other players getting lesser fines in history, calling them HE or HIM in all-capital letters to make the point.

A legitimate grievance is championed by a person whose actions were indefensible. This is neither good for women nor Serena Williams. For the sake of both, I hope she drops this line.

Speaking for me only

< Political Realities | Citizens United Decision: "It's Bad" >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


  • Display: Sort:
    Was McEnroe's behavior (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by Cream City on Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 09:13:07 AM EST
    "not good for men"?

    It doesn't matter (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by itscookin on Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 09:14:28 AM EST
    whether a woman's actions are defensible or not. She still gets told to shut up and sit down. That being said, Serena was wrong here and she needs to shut up and sit down.

    The difference with McEnroe (5.00 / 3) (#4)
    by Dadler on Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 09:14:47 AM EST
    Serena physically THREATENED a line judge, McEnroe, for all his bad boy b.s., simply ranted and raved, he never threatened violence on anyone. This is where Serena has her head firmly up her ace. Sure there are double standards for women all the time, but this ain't one, IMO.  Honestly, I think if a male tennsi player actually threatened a judge with physical violence, that male player would not have seen a court for a much longer time, and I think the fine might have been worse.

    Thank you! (none / 0) (#7)
    by smott on Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 09:25:28 AM EST
    Name a professional sport in which there is anything but ZERO tolerance for violence threatened or otherwise towards an official. ANything like that would result in immediate ejection and lengthy suspension. Imagine a baseball player brandishing their bat towards an umpire after a stike call. They'd be gone.

    Mac and Connors both got lengthy suspensions from their sport, merely for bad language (and Serena is often profane out there).

    Serena was incredibly lucky not to have been ejected from the tournament (she was allowed to stay in the doubles draw with her sister), and lucky not to have been given a months-long suspension potentially including a Grand SLam.

    The USTA was embarrassingly spineless over this.

    IMO she should have been fined a million bucks just for the disingenuous press conference afterward.


    Parent

    Roberto Alomar spat on an umpire (none / 0) (#35)
    by scribe on Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 11:15:52 AM EST
    for calling him out on strikes and came within a few votes of making the Hall of Fame this year on the first ballot.  At least Alomar was man enough to apologize publicly to the umpire;  they have reconciled and become friends.

    Parent
    Exaclty (none / 0) (#38)
    by Socraticsilence on Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 11:46:42 AM EST
    I'm right with her on the prize money disparity- but even threatening physical violence on a ref basically ends a players game in most other sports.

    Parent
    I've wondered (5.00 / 4) (#6)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 09:23:16 AM EST
    the same thing about Scott Brown. If it had been a woman who had done the nudie pic what would the reaction have been? Would she have been considered unelectable? Would she have lost an election because of somethign like that? It just makes me wonder.

    Palin has been repeatedly slammed for (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by tigercourse on Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 09:28:59 AM EST
    appearing in running shorts in a running magazine. So you can imagine what would have happened to a woman who did what Brown has.

    That said, I don't see a double standard in the Serena case. She threatened a tiny little line judge and didn't really receive much punishment for it.

    Parent

    unelectable (5.00 / 2) (#11)
    by kmblue on Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 09:30:42 AM EST
    IMHO there is no freakin' way a woman who posed nude could run for public office in the usa.
    with Brown people barely blinked.

    Parent
    They barely blinked because (5.00 / 0) (#20)
    by ruffian on Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 09:57:45 AM EST
    his supporters are the same people that would have gone ballistic if it were a Dem that did it, man or woman. Republicans = hypocrites on moral issues is an age old story.

    I don't think many Dems care. I found it amusing, but don't think it says anything about his fitness for office. Dems could have made it a big deal, as Reps would have, but they just don't care, and by and large are not hypocritical enough to pretend they do.

    Parent

    On a related note (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by lilburro on Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 09:26:00 AM EST
    Jezebel:

    According to a new book on women in the Olympics, media coverage of the Games has long been marked by sexism. Women apparently warrant 5% of the coverage, while male athletes get 87%. [EurekAlert]

    and a relevant comment:

    That is, unless you happen to be a lithe, perky, flexible young female in a sport where you're required to wear tight, form-fitting uniforms! Then you get plenty of coverage.

    John McEnroe also made some comment a while ago that the best women's player wouldn't be in the top 200 of men's tennis.  While that may be true, the comparison is unnecessary.  

    Women's sports just don't get no respect.  I think that's the bigger problem.

    Is it really sexism... (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by kdog on Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 09:32:54 AM EST
    or just capitalism?  If more people watched and followed womens sports, they would get more coverage...no?  

    Parent
    I don't know, I watched the heck out of the (none / 0) (#12)
    by tigercourse on Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 09:30:51 AM EST
    last Olympics, and I don't think the disparity was that bad. Though there was more focus on the men's sports.

    Parent
    Wha? (none / 0) (#13)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 09:31:30 AM EST
    Who gets the other 8 percent of the coverage??

    Parent
    men + women sports? n/t (none / 0) (#14)
    by lilburro on Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 09:32:11 AM EST
    pairs skating (none / 0) (#16)
    by CST on Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 09:34:09 AM EST
    The (none / 0) (#18)
    by CoralGables on Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 09:44:45 AM EST
    Ashley Whippet Invitational World Championship.

    Parent
    It would get far better (none / 0) (#19)
    by CoralGables on Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 09:47:05 AM EST
    viewership than curling if it was an Olympic event, with no participant cursing (although some growling possible).

    Parent
    Curling (none / 0) (#26)
    by Spamlet on Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 10:48:06 AM EST
    Don't be dissing curling! (none / 0) (#28)
    by jbindc on Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 10:50:41 AM EST
    any athelete, (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by cpinva on Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 11:01:48 AM EST
    at any level, in any sport, should be immediately ejected from competition, for threatening an official with physical harm. this isn't even an issue for discussion. were they to actually attack an official, they should be barred for life, arrested and charged with assault. again, not an issue for discussion.

    officials are the most vulnerable people on the field/court/ring and, while they accept the possibility of incidental physical contact, as part of the job, intentional contact (or threat of) is absolutely taboo in every sport, for obvious reasons.

    ms. williams' actions were indefensible, period, and i don't believe (at least, i don't want to believe) her gender had anything to do with the level of punishment she received, her opinion notwithstanding. conceivably (and this is just my opinion), another factor, not mentioned by her, may have been in play: her race.

    would steffi graf have received the same punishment, had she committed the same infraction? how about anna kournikova? clearly, no one knows, because those ladies (and no others, that i can think of) have ever threatened a court official with physical harm (although balls have "accidentally" been served at linesmen), so it's difficult to say. i hope they would have.

    Part of Williams' problem (none / 0) (#1)
    by jbindc on Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 09:06:53 AM EST
    And where she doesn't get a lot of sympathy is her own arrogance, both in this situation, and in general. She does love to play the victim.

    Yes, she has a point - if a man exhibited the same bad behavior, it wouldn't be quite the big deal as when she did it (shame on all of us for that).  But why do some women feel they need to adopt "men's" bad behavior to make it in a man's world?  

    Here's a novel idea for all athletes - shut up and play your sport.  The only thing out of your mouths should be, "I really played hard," "My opponent played a good game," "I need to work harder on ___," "I really feel blessed and privileged to have the opportunity to play a game and get paid millions of dollars to do so."  No one cares that you feel "victimized", or about your political or religious beliefs, or what your opinion is on anything but the sport you are playing.

    I'm sure glad Ali... (5.00 / 3) (#9)
    by kdog on Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 09:26:00 AM EST
    didn't just shut up and box...I'm glad Carlos & Smith didn't just shut up and run.

    I don't mind when athletes or artists use their microphone to advance the causes dear to their heart...yeah, the holy-roller religous types are annoying, Curt "Limbaugh" Schilling is annoying...but its worth it to have one Ali.

    Parent

    athletes (5.00 / 2) (#17)
    by CST on Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 09:38:55 AM EST
    are as entitled to freedom of speech as the rest of us.

    If they have something they want to say, and people listen for whatever reason, I don't see how that is a problem.

    If you don't care what they think or say, then don't listen.

    Parent

    Yes they do (none / 0) (#21)
    by jbindc on Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 10:01:42 AM EST
    If you are at a political rally or on a panel discussing such topic, then it's relevant, and I say, go to town with your opinions.  But if you are being interviewed in the locker room after a big game or after being thrown out, no one cares to hear your opinion on foreign policy or trade agreements. That's not why they're watching you.

    Parent
    If you have a platform (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by CST on Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 10:07:42 AM EST
    I see nothing wrong with using it as you see fit.

    If I were a famous athlete, I might take whatever press I could get and try to talk people into socialized medicine.

    If "no one else cared", I would still keep talking, because I care.  And if people don't want to watch they can turn off the tv.

    Parent

    Exactly CST.... (none / 0) (#23)
    by kdog on Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 10:17:18 AM EST
    I fear fame...but if it ever happened you bet your arse I'd use it to raise some hell, specifically regarding drug laws:)

    No skin off my back if anybody changes the channel because of it.

    Parent

    It is (none / 0) (#24)
    by jbindc on Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 10:19:30 AM EST
    If enough people don't want to hear your prostelytizing after a game and it affected your sponsors, you sure as heck would shut up then.

    Parent
    Not if the cause... (none / 0) (#25)
    by kdog on Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 10:42:39 AM EST
    matters more to me than the paycheck...considering any fame I get would be accidental, I don't think I'd give a sh*t if it went away because of my liberty evangelicalism.

    Parent
    Then that's great (none / 0) (#27)
    by jbindc on Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 10:50:16 AM EST
    But really - how many of these athletes doyou see spoouting off are really talking about something so dear to them that they would be willing to walk away from millions of dollars?

    How about they talk about their interests and passions on their own time and in the forum where it will be best receieved?

    Parent

    That's what Ali did... (none / 0) (#29)
    by kdog on Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 10:58:27 AM EST
    he gave up years of his prime for a cause...and the paychecks that go with it.  So much so that Joe Frazier had to slip some love in his hand, as he put it, to keep his kids fed because the con-men at the Nation dropped him like yesterdays trash when he lost his license and title.

    Todays athlete...you're right, a social conscience seems to be lacking for the most part.  I think that is unfortunate...few can jumpstart change like high profile athletes and artists.

    Parent

    It was exactly that it was unusual (none / 0) (#30)
    by Cream City on Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 11:01:42 AM EST
    for Ali to speak up for a cause that contributed to it being news.

    Let's not romanticize athletes of the past, either.  They were not getting such big bucks then, sure, but it also was unusual for them to ally with social causes.

    Parent

    True... (none / 0) (#34)
    by kdog on Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 11:14:25 AM EST
    it was a 60's and 70's thang for the most part with athletes, reverting back to old form in the 80's, with exceptions here and there of course.

    My moms always said "son, you were born 25 years too late."  I think I really woulda enjoyed the 60's and 70's as opposed to the more conformist, coprporate, authoritarian era in which I did come of age.

    Parent

    And frankly (none / 0) (#33)
    by jbindc on Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 11:14:13 AM EST
    if Ali's actions cost him so much money that it literally took food out of his kid's mouths, then shame on him as well.

    Parent
    Now, to be fair (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by Cream City on Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 11:21:08 AM EST
    I doubt that Ali could have imagined how much our federal government would go after him and make him a pariah, with an FBI and Justice Department investigations, not resolved until reaching the Supreme Court.

    It was a more innocent time before we found out just how much Hoover pulled -- and found out that the so-called Justice Department was misnomered.

    Parent

    Shame? (none / 0) (#36)
    by kdog on Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 11:17:03 AM EST
    No way, I say praise...that takes serious courage, and I have little doubt his children are proud of him, even if it meant money was real tight for awhile...the right thing often ain't the easy thing.

    Parent
    Easier said than done (none / 0) (#5)
    by Demi Moaned on Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 09:15:58 AM EST
    As a sometimes intemperate person (age has mellowed me), I get it that talented people often vent their frustrations in inappropriate ways.

    What's the problem in saying: "Yes, I was wrong to do what I did. And I think a double standard is in action here."

    Parent

    geez, i can't even splee! (none / 0) (#32)
    by cpinva on Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 11:03:12 AM EST
    obviously that should have been "athlete".

    Williams is wrong (none / 0) (#39)
    by DancingOpossum on Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 12:04:55 PM EST
    McEnroe was handed a default loss for cussing out an ump at the 1990 Australian Open, and that was without any threat of physical violence. And McEnroe has remained highly visible post-career because he is, in the judgment of most observers, one of the greatest tennis players ever to have played the game. Complaining about his ongoing isibility is little like saying "Hey, no fair that Wayne Gretzky is still the most recognized man in hockey." Wut? It has nothing to do with his being a man.

    Well that (none / 0) (#40)
    by Socraticsilence on Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 02:02:12 PM EST
    and he's actually entertaining- I mean does anyone really care what Sampras for example says about something not directly related to Tennis?

    Parent
    Have you seen the guns on that girl?? (none / 0) (#41)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Jan 21, 2010 at 02:19:43 PM EST
    She could crush a wee line judge like a bug.