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Foreclosure

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Economy
Posted on Mon Oct 04, 2010 at 12:04:18 PM EST
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Alan Grayson discusses the foreclosure mills issue:

Atrios pithily describes the problem with the Obama Administration approach - "the banksters f**king suck." The NYTimes more genteely says - "it is folly to rely on banks that got us into this mess to get us out." FULL DISCLOSURE - I am advising some parties related to this issue (the little guys for once.)

Speaking for me only

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    Foreclosure | 31 comments (31 topical)

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    So now there will be thousands of properties (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by beefeater on Mon Oct 04, 2010 at 12:36:32 PM EST
    with no way of clearing title. Can't be sold or bought.

    That'll help any recovery in the housing market.

    for the foreseeable future, (none / 0) (#5)
    by cpinva on Mon Oct 04, 2010 at 12:41:32 PM EST
    i remain unconvinced this would have any significant effect on the housing market, even if it were cleared up by month's end.

    ultimately, the housing market, like any other market, depends on demand. un or underemployed people are not going to be in the market for houses, whether clear title can be secured on them or not.

    Parent

    un/under employed aren't going to be ... (none / 0) (#6)
    by sj on Mon Oct 04, 2010 at 12:46:58 PM EST
    ... the market for buying (or are unlikely to be) but may very well be in the market for selling.  

    So what exactly was your point?

    Parent

    apparently, it flew over your head: (none / 0) (#30)
    by cpinva on Tue Oct 05, 2010 at 12:01:03 PM EST
    So what exactly was your point?

    bouncing gently off the wall behind it, and floated to the ground.

    people who's houses have been foreclosed on aren't going to be in the market to "sell" them.

    but may very well be in the market for selling.

    is that simple enough for you?

    Parent

    No need to get huffy (none / 0) (#31)
    by sj on Tue Oct 05, 2010 at 12:30:34 PM EST
    After re-reading my comment I realize how it sounded, but I really was just trying to get your point.  Which I still don't.

    Not every mortgage is over-valued.  And not everyone with trouble looming is already in foreclosure.  This affects sellers who otherwise may be able get out out from under.  They too are part of the housing market.

    Parent

    But there can be principle forgiveness (none / 0) (#10)
    by ruffian on Mon Oct 04, 2010 at 02:08:02 PM EST
    in mortgage modifications, making them much more effective in forestalling foreclosure. This new aspect of the crisis might put pressure on the banks to prevent foreclosures.  They can no longer pretend they did nothing wrong in creating the bubble. The banks need to pay for their mistakes just as the mortgagee has to pay for his.

    Parent
    What I (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Oct 04, 2010 at 02:12:47 PM EST
    don't understand is why the banks want the foreclosures because the ones in my neighborhood are going for way less than the original mortgage and then there are others that have sat and sat, one at the end of my street for two years now.

    Parent
    I don't get it either. No one wins (none / 0) (#12)
    by ruffian on Mon Oct 04, 2010 at 02:18:28 PM EST


    Parent
    Ah - listening to Grayson (5.00 / 2) (#13)
    by ruffian on Mon Oct 04, 2010 at 02:33:20 PM EST
    It seems the loan servicing companies get big fees for foreclosures - a lot more than they get for just servicing the loan. So the servicing companies seem to be working against the bank's interest in these cases too, not to mention committing fraud.

    Parent
    Bank has no interest anymore (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Oct 04, 2010 at 03:22:36 PM EST
    The loans have long been sold, divided up and securitized.

    The person paying for this is . . .  wait for it - the federal government.

    Obama's failure on this issue is criminal. Simply criminal.

    Parent

    What was I thinking? (none / 0) (#15)
    by ruffian on Mon Oct 04, 2010 at 04:04:52 PM EST
    Of course - if the banks were being hurt they would have had Treasury fix this problem a long time ago.

    Parent
    Not sure (none / 0) (#1)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Oct 04, 2010 at 12:30:58 PM EST
    I should have watched that as my blood is now boiling!!

    this issue isn't new, (none / 0) (#2)
    by cpinva on Mon Oct 04, 2010 at 12:31:22 PM EST
    it started to rear its (very) ugly head back in 2008, when foreclosures began accelerating. the slicing/dicing of mortgages, multiple times, without the transfer of actual, hard-copy documents, to support the claimed transfers of ownership, was cited in court cases early in 2009.

    the difference now is the flood of them, and more people willing to fight. what concerns me is the judges, who seem willing to overlook fraud, on the part of the banks, to move their dockets along.

    btw, (none / 0) (#3)
    by cpinva on Mon Oct 04, 2010 at 12:32:45 PM EST
    good luck BTD.

    Banks?! (none / 0) (#7)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Mon Oct 04, 2010 at 01:24:01 PM EST

    ...it is folly to rely on banks that got us into this mess to get us out.

    It was the government's "affordable housing" policies and mandates that got us into this mess.  Freddie and Fannie created the market for highly risky no money down mortgages and bundled that junk into mortgage backed securities.  

    Those MBS are at the bottom of the "toxic assets" pile.  Some banks were foolish enough to invest in those MBS in large part because they were issued by government sponsored enterprises.

    This is just false (5.00 / 4) (#8)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Oct 04, 2010 at 01:28:35 PM EST
    But you knew that already.

    Parent
    He may (5.00 / 2) (#9)
    by Zorba on Mon Oct 04, 2010 at 01:32:56 PM EST
    know it, but he won't ever admit it, BTD.   ;-)

    Parent
    Maxine Waters (none / 0) (#27)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Tue Oct 05, 2010 at 08:39:12 AM EST
    Are you asserting that Maxine Waters was telling a lie when she said:

    Under the outstanding leadership of Mr. Frank Raines, everything in the 1992 Act, has worked just fine.  In fact, the GSE's have exceeded their housing goals.  What we need to do today is to focus on the regulator.  And this must be done in a the manner so as not to impede the affordable housing mission.  A mission that has seen innovation flourish, from desktop underwriting to 100 per cent loans.

    Emphasis added.  Desktop underwriting is colloquially known as a liar loan, and the 100% loan is a no money down loan.  Both of those practices are right at the root of the mortgage bubble, helped along by negative interest rates from the Fed,

    Have you researched the result of "focus on the regulator?"  Hint: it has to do with how bank regulators instructed banks to evaluate the risk of MBS securities from Fannie and Freddie.

    Parent

    Judges....... (none / 0) (#16)
    by NYShooter on Mon Oct 04, 2010 at 04:48:26 PM EST
    Bankers, Brokers, Appraisers, Rating Agencies, and now we can add "Judges" to the list of criminals that made up the enterprise known as the "Housing Crisis."

    A while back I was working in my son's shop when a Deputy Police Commissioner walked in and said, "you have to come with me." When I asked why, he said, "something about a Zoning violation." I was brought to the Police Dept, processed, and put in a pen with the drug dealers, pimps, prostitutes, shoplifters, etc.  Later that evening I was brought to court in handcuffs....Handcuffs!!! and then, when my turn before the judge came, he asked, "you were duly served with a notice to appear in court?"  I answered, "No Sir, I was never served with anything, and I have no idea why I'm here." He responded, "Well, you're here now! I assume you're pleading `not guilty,'  here's another appearance ticket, and if you don't show up then you'll spend the night in jail."

    "Well, you're here now."

    No questions, no apology, no attempt to figure out what I was doing there. Just the attitude, "if the cops brought you here, you must be guilty of something."

    Anyway, needless to say, I got a lawyer, the Town dropped their "case" against me, and the thing just went away. Of course, the thing that didn't "go away" was the $2,000 bill I got from the lawyer for straightening out the mess the Town created in the first place. When I called the Town's attorney and asked what they were going to do to reimburse me for something they did, his response: "I don't know, sue us, and we'll find out."

    And the politicians wonder why "the little people" are so filled with rage.

    I had a long lunch with my husband (none / 0) (#17)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Oct 04, 2010 at 05:17:38 PM EST
    today.  I phoned him this morning and told him that it needed to happen, then I showed up and informed him that we closed on our house in the time frame and with one of the banking entities that were not properly conveying the title to properties.  My poor husband looked at me and said, "Are you saying that it is likely we are paying a mortgage on something that there is no clear title to?"  The answer to that would be......YES.

    How did (none / 0) (#18)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Oct 04, 2010 at 06:20:40 PM EST
    you know Tracy? I'm wondering if I have this problem because we started out with Countrywide and now have BoA. The article didn't say Ga but yet I'm wondering if it will pop up in Ga.

    Parent
    The states that they immediately (none / 0) (#19)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Oct 04, 2010 at 06:39:33 PM EST
    stopped foreclosure proceedings in were the states that REQUIRE judicial foreclosures.  If they were stupid enough to throw all the paperwork into warehouses in those states and then result to forging the documents for those states.....how could they have missed us :)?  I'm right in the hot zone of closing when they did all that.  I had a really strange thing happen too that freaked me out a bit.  A few weeks back I was checking into the new lower interest rates on 15 year fixed, we were thinking about doing it.  Anyhow, I'm being interviewed and my credit is being pulled and I'm asked if we had any late payments on the house.  Just be honest is my motto so I tell her yes, when spouse was in Afghanistan and around the time of being told to cut off Joshua's feet....he also had to have a back surgery in San Antonio.  I was really a depressed mess for about 60 days during all that, and my daughter calls me San Antonio and says that some lady is really upset and calling the house about the house payment.  OY!  How could I have forgotten it?  But I did and it was very very late.  I called them and sent it right away but we were midway into the next month at that time.  Guess what though?  No record of it.  So are they also lying about our payment histories in order to keep us all looking as good as possible on paper as they can?  I can't ever remember a time when a very late mortgage payment didn't show up.  And I don't think anyone took pity on me either, they really didn't listen to my story they just needed the money sent now....so I did.

    Parent
    I wonder (none / 0) (#20)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Oct 04, 2010 at 07:16:00 PM EST
    how I can find out about this. It isn't like BoA is going to tell me. We are trying to get a loan modification right now and I scraped together the money for the payment last month but I surely don't have it for this month with hubby being out of work and all. It's really scary that they can do this. We've paid on time for seven years until all this happened.

    Parent
    We were wondering how we could (none / 0) (#21)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Oct 04, 2010 at 07:59:03 PM EST
    find out if there is a clearly conveyed title on our house too.  I don't know how to go about it yet, but I'm working to find out.

    Parent
    If you (none / 0) (#22)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Oct 04, 2010 at 08:13:38 PM EST
    find out, let me know.

    Parent
    I sure will (none / 0) (#23)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Oct 04, 2010 at 08:14:21 PM EST


    Parent
    I just found out that (none / 0) (#24)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Oct 04, 2010 at 08:43:42 PM EST
    our "mortgage servicer" PHH has been one of the entities using the foreclosure mills.  So where is our real paperwork properly conveyed to the mortgage backed security trust?  This isn't looking good :)  Check and see if there is anything in the news about who is servicing your mortgage and the use of the foreclosure mills that forge documents they don't have to foreclose.

    Parent
    Actually, (none / 0) (#25)
    by NYShooter on Mon Oct 04, 2010 at 09:48:16 PM EST
     you can do it yourself. Just go to the county clerk's office and pull your file. It will show who has any liens on your house. Or, you can have a Title company do it but it will cost a couple of hundred bucks.

    The problem is that file will only show who purports to hold the title. Once foreclosure starts you have the right to ask the judge to force the mortgage company to produce the actual, original, hard copy  of the mortgage & deed. That's where the companies have run into trouble; with all the slicing and dicing, and the very high volume, their bookkeeping was sloppy and often times they simply can't find it.

    In New York, judges have actually given clear title to the homeowners, "0"  balance, if company can't produce the document.

    Parent

    Many counties have the records online (none / 0) (#29)
    by ruffian on Tue Oct 05, 2010 at 09:00:08 AM EST
    You don't even have to go down to the office. Google your County Clerks office and check.

    Parent
    It reminded me too that I had similar (none / 0) (#28)
    by ruffian on Tue Oct 05, 2010 at 08:58:08 AM EST
    issues a few years ago. I bought here in FL in 2005 at nearly the height of the bubble, and they structured it into 2 loans to get me qualified since my house in CO still had not sold. (You don't need any more evidence about what insanity was going on in the loan market. I couldn't believe they were going to let me have mortgages on 2 houses.) A few months later after my house in CO sold I was refinancing to get the two loans consolidated - and the servicer on the 2nd mortgage could not find the title. They asked me for a copy of the notes, and I couldn't find them either. I don't think they ever sent them to me. I had to make a lot of calls and ended up with some 'warehouse' who was supposedly able to send them what they needed. I asked them to send me a copy too, and they never did. I wonder, if I were ever unfortunate enough to go in foreclosure, if they could find my paperwork. I bet not.

    Parent
    Politically rigged (none / 0) (#26)
    by diogenes on Mon Oct 04, 2010 at 11:06:21 PM EST
    Gee--stop foreclosures now and maybe before the election announce a dramatic "decrease" in foreclosures as proof of an economic recovery.

    Foreclosure | 31 comments (31 topical)

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