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Thursday Morning Open Thread

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Blog Related
Posted on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 10:46:19 AM EST
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Ok, there must be something more interesting to discuss today than notary publics, but I can't imagine what that is. Let me know in thread.

Open Thread.

< The Law Of Unintended Consequences | White House Considering Veto Of Notarization Recognition Bill >

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    Thursday Morning Open Thread | 108 comments (108 topical)

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    More bad news you ask? (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 11:02:40 AM EST
    Economy...41.8 million Americans on food stamps, new record.

    Economy & Taxes...2011 tax table confusion may lead to big holes in January paychecks, and with 77% of Americans living check to check according to a recent careerbuilder survey, that ain't good!

    Last but not least, on the crininal justice/lack of liberty front...some lawyer just got locked up for refusing to cite the pledge of allegiance.  Pledge allegiance to this sh*t?  That judge must be out his mind.

    Major surprise that (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by brodie on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 11:40:16 AM EST
    the contempt case happened in a bizarre court room pledge of allegiance requirement and not the usual public school setting.  But no surprise whatsoever that it was a courtroom in the Deep South where rock-ribbed conservatism rules and folks have might peculiar notions of freedom of speech.  That judge ought to be disciplined by the state authorities for this fairly serious abuse of power and ignorance of the law.

    Parent
    He should be removed from the bench (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by Dadler on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 12:02:21 PM EST
    That kind of pin-headed nonsense has no place on the bench. But I'm sure he'll remain on his pedestal and collect a nice pension from the people he rules.

    Parent
    Agree, although I hope (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by brodie on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 12:21:18 PM EST
    the atty involved refuses any further improper orders to stand and pledge, or gets some sort of appellate relief from further abuse from this wacko superpatriot judge.  Outrageous stuff like that needs to be directly challenged and eliminated from courtrooms in a democracy.

    Some of us -- perhaps of a certain age? -- have had our personal experiences in public school with the PoA, and failing to go along and stand and pledge at one time.  Mine was as a youngster during the VN War-Nixon period at a large school assembly, though it only resulted in being ordered out of my seat and being given a verbal reprimand by an overheated superpatriot teacher from the Pat Buchanan wing of the Repub Pty.

    Parent

    I remember well in elementary school... (none / 0) (#51)
    by Dadler on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 12:57:24 PM EST
    ...during the '72 prez campaign, our teacher decided we'd have a mock election in class. She told us to go ask our parents who they were voting for, then come back then next day and we'll all vote based on the parents' votes.  

    It was a voice vote. The teacher went around the class and asked each kid who their folks were pulling the lever for.

    It was a GOP chorus. Nixon, Nixon, Nixon, Nixon, student after student, you'd have thought I was attending Tricky Dick Elementary School.

    Finally, when my turn came, I realized I would be the ONLY kid having to utter that fateful name: McGovern.  Oh the shame.

    Ahem.

    Parent

    Yikes! (none / 0) (#103)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Oct 08, 2010 at 12:30:58 AM EST
    Wow, that's just awful.

    Parent
    For some good news for a change (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by MO Blue on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 01:52:35 PM EST
    Lieberman's approval rating stands at only 31%, with 57% disapproval -- even lower than the 36%-54% for Sen. Chris Dodd, who is retiring. Broken down by party, Lieberman's rating is 20%-69% among Democrats, 46%-41% among Republicans, and 31%-56% among independents.

    Respondents were also asked this question: "Generally speaking in 2012 will you vote to reelect Joe Lieberman or would you rather replace him with someone else?" The answer was only 24% to re-elect him, against 66% who would vote to replace him.
    ...
    Democrats, Republicans, and independents in Connecticut agree on one thing: they want Joe Lieberman replaced in the US Senate," writes PPP president Dean Debnam. "His path to reelection, at least at this point a couple years away, looks extremely difficult." TPM

    I know that a lot can happen in 2 years but seeing HolyJoe lose badly would put a smile on my face.

    Parent

    Shameless link farming (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by Edger on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 11:09:09 AM EST
    All across Europe recently there have been wave after wave of co-ordinated general strikes and massive demonstrations showing a solidarity and a unity across unions representing different kinds of workers in different countries, different levels of skill, against austerity proposals by governments, that put to shame the levels of public street activism in the US and Canada.

    Fresh off a summer lecturing in Greece and France, economist, author, and Professor Emeritus of Economics at the University of Massachusetts, Amherst, Richard D. Wolff, well-known for his work on Marxian economics, economic methodology and class analysis, Yale University Ph.D. in Economics, and Professor at The New School University in New York City, gives his analysis on the massive European mobilizations and strikes. He also compares the US movement to the European one, and find the European workers to be much more advanced in their struggle.

    Video: People Power: European Activism & Constitutional Crises

    Excellent link; thanks -- (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by Cream City on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 11:28:19 AM EST
    and if only we all would join in, in this country, to march in the streets and say "We are not the ones who are going to pay for this mess!"

    For now, though, we are going to continue to be the ones to pay for it; more bad news today about more furloughs.

    Bye for now; that bad news is getting me up and going to join in an education rights march -- against more exorbitant tuition increases, while campus workers face more furloughs -- on a nearby campus.  

    It started with students before.  May they lead us again.

    Parent

    It would do wonders... (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 11:41:44 AM EST
    if we found it in us to display but a fraction of the people power on display in parts of Europe.  Give 'em hell CC!  Don't get locked up!

    But unfortunately, by my observation, we all apparently hate each other too much to hit the streets together in the numbers required...we'd rather beat up on each other...the have nots vs. the have a littles, with the have mores watching from the bleachers like its sport.

    Parent

    Consumerism has numbed us completely (5.00 / 2) (#25)
    by Dadler on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 12:04:39 PM EST
    Even tea-baggers, who are really protesting for their right to remain fat and ignorant without having to answer to anyone about anything, no matter how much it impacts other citizens who don't share their corrosive sentiments.

    Parent
    Did you see Taibbi's... (5.00 / 0) (#50)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 12:55:20 PM EST
    Tea Party piece?  Dude nails it yet again.

    I especially liked his "you almost feel sorry for them" sentiment...kicking and screaming to hold onto a past that never really existed but in 50's sitcoms because of a scary and uncertain globalized present & future, with entrenched connected adversaries posing as saviors...it is sad in a way. It's all so sad...my little vacay reminded me that maybe the apolitical and willfully ignorant have it right because even paying only half attention is a real heartbreaker sometimes.

    Parent

    Kdog, sweetie (none / 0) (#76)
    by Zorba on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 02:44:14 PM EST
    The whole thing is that these folks think that they deserve any government benefits that come to them, but they're furious at the idea that any of their tax dollars might go to benefit "the other."  (Read: black people, brown people, anyone who is "not like them.")

    Parent
    Yep yep... (5.00 / 0) (#77)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 02:49:34 PM EST
    "Don't tread on me, tread on them!" is my descript...I observed it early on, sh*t how could one miss the hypocrisy.

    Like Taibbi's exposing of Rand Paul as a Medicare welfare queen, if that dude is a libertarian I'm a loyal Democrat:)  

    Parent

    Thanks for the laff (none / 0) (#88)
    by Cream City on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 04:34:58 PM EST
    as it is too sad but true, the slogan that you impute to the selfish fools:

    "Don't tread on me, tread on them!"

    But they are so proud of their selfish idiocy that I would not be surprised to see a banner with this slogan on it, harking back to the original circa 1770s.

    Parent

    It started with students before (none / 0) (#12)
    by Edger on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 11:40:07 AM EST
    because of the draft.

    Maybe it will start with students again because of the debt they graduate with, and with no jobs for them.

    May 1968?

    May 1968, referring to the period when the events occurred in France, saw the largest general strike that ever stopped the economy of an advanced industrial country,[1] the first wildcat general strike in history,[1] and a series of student occupation protests. The prolonged strike involved eleven million workers for two weeks in a row,[1] and its impact was such that it almost caused the collapse of the government of President Charles de Gaulle. Such explosion was provoked by groups in revolt against modern consumer and technical society, embracing left-wing positions that were even more critical of Stalinist totalitarianism than of Western capitalism.[2] The movement contrasted with the labor unions and the French Communist Party (Parti Communiste Français, PCF), which started to side with the de Gaulle government in the goal of containing the revolt.[1]

    Many saw the events as an opportunity to shake up the "old society" and traditional morality, focusing especially on the education system and employment.[citation needed] It began as a long series of student strikes that broke out at a number of universities and lycées in Paris, following confrontations with university administrators and the police. The de Gaulle administration's attempts to quash those strikes by police action only inflamed the situation further, leading to street battles with the police in the Latin Quarter, followed by a general strike by students and strikes throughout France by eleven million French workers, roughly two-thirds of the French workforce. The protests reached such a point that de Gaulle created a military operations headquarters to deal with the unrest, dissolved the National Assembly and called for new parliamentary elections for 23 June 1968.

    The government was close to collapse at that point (de Gaulle had even taken temporary refuge at an air force base in Germany), but violence evaporated almost as quickly as it arose. Workers went back to their jobs, after a series of deceptions by the Confédération Générale du Travail (the leftist union federation) and the PCF. When the elections were finally held in June, the Gaullist party emerged even stronger than before.

    May 1968 was a political failure for the protesters, but it had an enormous social impact. In France, it is considered to be the watershed moment when a conservative moral ideal (religion, patriotism, respect for authority) shifted towards a more liberal moral ideal (equality, sexual liberation, human rights) that today better describes French society, in theory if not in practice.



    Parent
    Whitman's ex-nanny files claim against Whitman. (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 11:17:30 AM EST
    Diaz has filed a claim against Whitman for $6210 for unpaid wages and mileage.

    To keep things simple and to make the result sound as bad as possible against Whitman, lets assume all of the $6200 is unpaid wages, ie, wages for hours Diaz worked but was not paid for.

    $6200 at $23/hr over 9 years = 7.2 minutes of unpaid labor per day.

    7.2 minutes/day.

    Now, of course even 1 unpaid minute is wrong and illegal. But, and while I'm sure there are some here who will need to be revived on the fainting couch over such an egregious example of employee abuse, color me unimpressed that the explosive press conferences and tearful and excoriating accusations amount to an average of 7.2 minutes/day.

    undocumented immigrants employers (5.00 / 0) (#10)
    by MO Blue on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 11:32:29 AM EST
    are "acting against the national interests, acting against the law in every respect." Rule applies to everyone else but the man himself.

    Author, radio host, and TV personality Lou Dobbs -- who ended his long career at CNN this past November with an $8 million severance pay package -- made his name in public life by railing against undocumented immigrants. Dobbs has always reserved special derision for illegal employers, who he says are "acting against the national interests, acting against the law in every respect."

    Now, a new investigation by journalist Isabel Macdonald for The Nation Magazine has found that the notorious pundit "has relied for years on undocumented labor for the upkeep of his multimillion-dollar estates and the horses he keeps for his 22-year-old daughter, Hillary, a champion show jumper." Macdonald interviewed five immigrants who were undocumented at the time they were employed by Dobbs to do work at his "sprawling white mansion on his 300-acre estate in Sussex, New Jersey" and " spacious multimillion-dollar winter holiday home in Eagle Isle, the most exclusive enclave of the Ibis Golf and Country Club, a gated community in West Palm Beach, Florida." Think Progress



    Parent
    According to (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 11:50:30 AM EST
    LAWeekly:

    Last week, Diaz Santillan filed a claim against Whitman for $6,210 in back wages. Allred seems to have arrived at this figure by estimating that Diaz Santillan worked 18 hours per week, but was only paid for 15 hours. She then took the balance of 3 hours per week, multiplied it by $23/hr., and and multiplied that by 21 months -- which is the total period that Diaz Santillan was employed by Whitman within the past three years.

    Three years is the statute of limitations on this sort of thing, so Diaz Santillan can't claim wages all the way back to when she was first hired in 2000.

    Dean Fryer, a spokesman for the Department of Industrial Relations, said that in such cases a conference between the employer and the employee is typically scheduled within 30 days. No such conference has yet been scheduled in this case. If the case does not resolve at that point, it goes to an administrative hearing.

    No, three extra hours a week isn't a lot, but it adds up.  And yes, I know that if you do the math, 18 hours v. 15 hours takes the $23/hr to an effective hourly rate of just over $19/hr, which isn't a bad wage - but when an employer contracts at a specific wage and then doesn't honor it, that's wrong, regardless of whether the employee in question is documented or undocumented or a citizen.

    At least as far as I'm concerned.

    Parent

    Fair enough, (none / 0) (#23)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 12:00:44 PM EST
    it was only for three years, not the whole 9.

    Parent
    Also, (none / 0) (#27)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 12:06:46 PM EST
    Diaz also indicates that Whitman had approximately four employees at her Atherton home.
    That should ameliorate some of the outrage some expressed that Nicky was taking care of Whitman's 4000sf home in 15 hours/week all by herself...

    Parent
    By "some," I guess you mean me... :-) (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 12:31:55 PM EST
    The more information we have, the better, but, there's also been a nanny who worked for Whitman for 2 months who hasn't had a lot of nice things to say about her former employer.

    Here's the thing, for me: the more I learn about Whitman, the less I think of her, and I didn't have a great opinion of her to begin with.

    She doesn't have a great track record of treating people well; she does have a record of treating herself very well - I read something about the huge  - as in multi-million dollar - bonus she got herself paid, right before she laid off a lot of eBay employees.

    The immigration status issue is not at the heart of this for me, though I can understand how it's being used to cast Whitman as a raging hypocrite; it's about how employers treat their employees - do they honor their agreement to pay a specific wage, do they take unfair advantage and abuse their power to the employees' detriment and expect to get away with it, do they have a history of not treating people well or fairly, and so on.

    Employees have obligations, too: to perform the duties and responsibilities agreed upon, to work at a high level of productivity and quality, to show up on time, to not abuse leave time, and so on.

    There's a lot of room there for disagreement on both sides, but Diaz's W-2s reflect the $23/hr for 15 hours per week, so the question is, did she work more, and if so, why shouldn't Whitman have an obligation to pay for that extra work?

    Parent

    Fair enough. (none / 0) (#48)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 12:46:30 PM EST
    I assume your last question is rhetorical, as I'm not aware of anyone suggesting she should not be paid if she worked the hours.

    Parent
    Well, mostly what I have been reading (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 01:31:04 PM EST
    is that at $23/hr Diaz had nothing to complain about - which I think is the equivalent of saying that it didn't matter if Whitman didn't pay her for the extra hours because her hourly wage was very generous to begin with.

    Parent
    It would be an interesting side element (none / 0) (#53)
    by BTAL on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 01:01:58 PM EST
    to find out what non-monetary compensations/benefits that may have been received.  Free food, use of employer vehicle for private matters, etc.  Not that it would necessarily add up to the amount of non-paid wages. Were/were not part of the agreed upon employment terms.

    Parent
    One of the issues was that Diaz (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 01:29:19 PM EST
    was using her own vehicle and not being reimbursed for mileage or gas expenses for running errands and schlepping children around.

    And if Whitman wanted to make the argument that she provided food and other benefits, isn't she just deeper into this hole because those benefits were not declared as being paid to Diaz?

    Parent

    I only mention it because the situation is (none / 0) (#59)
    by BTAL on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 01:40:45 PM EST
    obviously a small and close knit "working" environment vs a "regular" company scenario.  We all know that in those domestic situations many things don't always go according to Hoyle by both the employer and employee with compromises and give & take happening on the fly.  

    That opens up situations of expectations and confusion unfortunately.

    Parent

    Whitman gave Diaz 8 months maternity leave. (none / 0) (#90)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 06:29:50 PM EST
    CA & US law don't require her to provide Diaz ANY maternity leave at all. Zero.
    Here's the thing, for me: the more I learn about Whitman, the less I think of her, and I didn't have a great opinion of her to begin with.

    She doesn't have a great track record of treating people well



    Parent
    And hourly wage was good. (none / 0) (#91)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 06:48:36 PM EST
    Which leads me to believe Ms. Whitman thought her employee had a green card.  

    Parent
    Huh? (none / 0) (#92)
    by squeaky on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 07:09:29 PM EST
    I do not follow your logic.

    Domestic help are paid well by rich people because they come recommended, are careful, do a good job, and can be trusted.

    Many rich people cannot imagine letting anyone in their house for less than $25/hour. It is pocket change.

    Parent

    Hourly wage was on track (none / 0) (#93)
    by nycstray on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 07:13:56 PM EST
    with services. sure, you can get indies cheaper if you shop around, but through an agency? I used to pay approx 20 bucks an hour (in NY and CA) and I know my mom does and we certainly don't fall into Megs mega buck lifestyle.

    Parent
    My wife used to do child care through a service (none / 0) (#97)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 08:31:46 PM EST
    the client paid the service and the service took their cut and then paid my wife the remainder. I don't think this was that type of situation.

    Parent
    no, this looks like a direct hire through (none / 0) (#99)
    by nycstray on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 09:02:50 PM EST
    an agency. i didn't go through agencies but paid the going agency rate to indies, as does my mom when she hires help. mom did use home care help for my dad through an agency, they took about 50%.

    Parent
    ya, 50% sounds about right. (none / 0) (#107)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Oct 08, 2010 at 11:29:53 AM EST


    Parent
    If I'm not mistaken, Whitman told (none / 0) (#95)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 07:43:21 PM EST
    Diaz that if she didn't find a replacement for herself when she was getting ready to have her baby, she could consider herself out of a job.

    Also, I didn't see anything in your comment that suggested she was being paid to be on leave; somehow I can't imagine Whitman agreeing to pay two salaries for one job when she apparently wasn't even willing to pay Diaz for the hours beyond 15 hours.

    I fail to see what is so generous about telling someone, "sure, you can have some time off, but I'm not going to pay you."

    Assuming that is, in fact, what the arrangement was.

    Parent

    You are going by what Diaz said, again. (none / 0) (#98)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 08:40:26 PM EST
    Regardless, Whitman gave her 8 MONTHS of maternity leave when ZERO is required.

    Although Whitman voluntarily gave her that 8 months of leave, but didn't also volunteer to pay her her salary for those 8 months that Diaz didn't work, that means she's treating Diaz badly?

    Wow, tough crowd.

    Parent

    What incredible generosity (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by Yman on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 10:27:58 PM EST
    Unpaid time off, provided she finds someone to replace her while she's gone.

    wow.

    Just "like a member of the family".

    BTW - Where did you hear it was "8 MONTHS of maternity leave"?  It's been reported that Whitman herself said it was 3 months.

    A few minutes later, however, Whitman admitted that when Diaz went on maternity leave for three months, she was replaced by one of the housekeeper's friends, adding that she didn't know whether or not the second woman was legal and could not recall whether or not she made an effort to find out.


    Parent
    Fair enough, it is 3 months. (none / 0) (#106)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Oct 08, 2010 at 11:07:39 AM EST
    I read 8 months somewhere and should have confirmed...

    Parent
    If she wasn't being paid, what, exactly (none / 0) (#100)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 09:28:43 PM EST
    was she being "given?"  An eight-month, unpaid "vacation?"

    And her job back as long as she found someone to take her place while she was gone.

    Wow - I'm just overwhelmed by the generosity.

    Parent

    It was actually 3 months. (none / 0) (#105)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Oct 08, 2010 at 11:05:19 AM EST
    My wife had two kids while working for two separate companies, she got 6 weeks (1.5 months)  leave both times.

    Since 3 months maternity leave is probably something 90% of employers do not offer, yeah, I put that in the "not treating Diaz badly" column.

    Parent

    In case it wasn't clear (none / 0) (#108)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Oct 08, 2010 at 11:31:33 AM EST
    my wife's leaves were both unpaid.

    Parent
    well, we know at one point she had (none / 0) (#31)
    by nycstray on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 12:11:05 PM EST
    a nanny, so that's one less doing housework. then perhaps she had a yard person or 2, and a cook?

    Parent
    Who knows, I'd be happy having any one of them. (none / 0) (#34)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 12:14:21 PM EST


    Parent
    Not "7.2 minutes per day" (5.00 / 0) (#26)
    by Yman on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 12:05:06 PM EST
    Try 3 hours per day, or 20% more time than that for which she was actually paid, since the statute of limitations prevents her from suing for periods prior to three years ago.

    You may be "unimpressed", but I'm guessing you wouldn't be if (as Diaz alleges) your employer required you to work 20% more hours for no additional pay, or cut your current pay by 20%.

    Parent

    Already addressed that valid point. (none / 0) (#29)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 12:07:28 PM EST


    Parent
    Well, you acknowledged the facts, ... (none / 0) (#40)
    by Yman on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 12:22:55 PM EST
    ... but did the fact that she claims she wasn't paid for 3 hours a day (vs. 7.2 minutes per day) change your mind?

    Parent
    um, NOT 3 hours/DAY. She's claiming 3hrs/WEEK. (none / 0) (#47)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 12:38:11 PM EST
    Assuming she worked 5 days/week, that's 36 minutes/day (vs. 7.2) Well worthy of a claim, imo.

    Parent
    Researchers have uncovered (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by Edger on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 11:26:25 AM EST
    the largest geothermal hot spot in the eastern United States. According to a unique collaboration between Google and academic geologists, West Virginia sits atop several hot patches of Earth, some as warm as 200˚C and as shallow as 5 kilometers. If engineers are able to tap the heat, the state could become a producer of green energy for the region...

    Sciencemag.org reports that West Virginia is a geothermal hot spot.

    talk about a state that needs it (5.00 / 2) (#28)
    by Dadler on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 12:07:22 PM EST
    west virginia is long overdue for some spoils.

    Parent
    If we could get (none / 0) (#54)
    by Edger on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 01:18:54 PM EST
    coal mining taxed high enough to at least pay for some of the costs (environmental, health, etc) it dumps on to the people of West Virginia and the rest of the world, maybe geothermal electricity production would be competitive there, too...

    Parent
    So, what does the administration that (5.00 / 0) (#11)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 11:34:46 AM EST
    authored the Best Health Reform Plan Ever do when large - and some small - employers threaten to cancel their group coverage so they don't have to comply with the new law?

    Well, issue them waivers, of course...on the theory that some insurance - even the crappy kind that's cheap but doesn't cover much and has very low caps on coverage - is still better than no insurance, especially since the vaunted exchanges aren't up and running yet.  

    So, the long rollout will not just be giving the insurance companies more time to screw with people's lives and wallets, but it will provide more time for an already-weak law to be further weakened on multiple fronts.

    Splendid.

    To date, the administration has given about 30 insurers, employers and union plans, responsible for covering about one million people, one-year waivers on the new rules that phase out annual limits on coverage for limited-benefit plans, also known as "mini-meds." Applicants said their premiums would increase significantly, in some cases doubling or more.

    These early exemptions offer the first signs of how the administration may tackle an even more difficult hurdle: the resistance from insurers and others against proposed regulations that will determine how much insurers spend on consumers' health care versus administrative overhead, a major cornerstone of the law.

    Several leading insurers, including WellPoint, Aetna and Cigna, have also objected to new rules requiring them to cover even those children who are seriously ill, warning that they will stop selling new policies in some states because the rules do not protect them from having to cover too many sick children.

    As the rest of the article reflects, this law is going to be a regulatory steel-cage death match between state and federal interests, and I'm guessing that by the time - probably well before the time - full implementation is scheduled to take effect, that not only will all the better parts (such as they are) have been weakened to death, but the parts that make life worse for people will have been strengthened.

    The only question I have is which corporate entity will get naming rights to the Congress, and which ones will have to settle for naming individual seats.

    Live from the Aetna Capitol Rotunda! (5.00 / 2) (#38)
    by Dadler on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 12:17:02 PM EST
    It's opening day of Wellpoint Cigna's 112th "U.S." Congress!

    Brought to you by Bud and Bud Lite.

    Parent

    I want the popcorn concession...n/t (5.00 / 0) (#65)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 02:00:38 PM EST


    Parent
    Honest, I did not have a hand (5.00 / 2) (#43)
    by KeysDan on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 12:28:08 PM EST
    in writing this report:  (From the NYT). Four reports from the  Commission on the BP oil spill appointed by President Obama, make clear that the panel does not intend to spare the administration as it prepares a final report by early next year.

    While not yet completed, the tenor of reports (released yesterday) indicates that the WH, cabinet officers, Coast Guard commanders and senior government scientists will shoulder a fair amount of blame for the response to the spill.  "By initially underestimating the amount of the oil flow and then, at the end of the summer, appearing to underestimate the amount of oil remaining in the gulf," one of the reports stated, "the federal government created the impression that it was either not fully competent to handle the spill or not fully candid with the American people about the scope of the problem."

    The government relied on BP data for flow rates and claimed, in August, that 75 percent of the oil was gone, implying that their efforts had been largely successful and that ecological damage had been limited--but its own data did not support such sweeping conclusions.

    Gee a straight shooting investigative panel.  Maybe, the Catfood Commission will find that social security is in good shape for at least the next 30 years and benefits should not be cut or age eligibility changed. However, the cap on income should be removed so as to strengthen social security for the next 75 years and to help finance Medicare and Medicaid (with addition federal underwriting to assist states and assure funding). In addition, the deficit will be attacked by increasing gasoline taxes by 50 cents per gallon, and the Pentagon budget will be the primary target for pruning  along with a a "war surtax". Just for starters. Good, in advance,  on Alan Simpson, I knew he was on our side all along.

    Article in the globe today (none / 0) (#3)
    by CST on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 11:12:01 AM EST
    about the Boston area's top innovators.  Some cool stuff on this list although nothing stands out as something that will completely reform the job market.  Unless the whole flying car thing really takes off - in which case, we'll need to manufacture a bunch of those bad boys.  It definitely wins the group on the "cool" factor.

    Link

    If I were a rich person, I would invest my money in the LEDs, the robots that inspect infrastructure, and the paper that can test for diseases.  Then I'd buy a flying car just for fun.

    Financial advisor gets life sentence (none / 0) (#4)
    by Xclusionary Rule 4ever on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 11:14:22 AM EST
    World famous financial advisor given life in prison.

    Thats funny... (none / 0) (#104)
    by kdog on Fri Oct 08, 2010 at 09:14:16 AM EST
    I was ready to rail at the excessive sentence!  

    Harder to rail on that one...attempted murder of hundreds of people is no joke.

    Parent

    Criminal contempt of court (none / 0) (#5)
    by MO Blue on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 11:16:29 AM EST
    JACKSON, Miss. (AP) -- A Mississippi state judge sent a lawyer to jail for several hours for refusing to recite the Pledge of Allegiance in court, according to court records. link

    Liberty and justice for all? Not so much.

    Great minds.... (none / 0) (#9)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 11:31:48 AM EST
    link alike, eh MO? :)

    Parent
    Missed your reference to this above (none / 0) (#17)
    by MO Blue on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 11:49:28 AM EST
    Read about the food stamps and the tax table but missed the contempt case.

    Oh well, can't highlight abuses of power or attacks against our constitution enough IMO.

    Parent

    Ain't that the truth... (none / 0) (#20)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 11:53:57 AM EST
    check this one out...judge in PA actually mentions the typically unspoken "white boy" break on the stand and refuses to accept a plea.

    Good to talk about the white boy break Judge...but I'd much prefer the white boy break be extended to black people, instead of us all getting the black criminal justice treatment...thats not progress.

    Parent

    White House is considering (none / 0) (#15)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 11:45:14 AM EST
    bill re mortgage lenders, notary, etc.:

    Reuters

    Time to light up the WH switchboard! (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by Joan in VA on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 12:30:15 PM EST


    Parent
    Why Feingold is in trouble (none / 0) (#16)
    by Cream City on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 11:45:17 AM EST
    per The Wisconsin Voter blog:

    "Here are a few numbers that help explain why Senate Democrat Russ Feingold has trailed in every public poll this fall. They show the political leanings of likely voters in a recent statewide survey by Marist:
    Liberals: 20%
    Moderates: 33%
    Conservatives: 47%

    ". . . .What's striking about these "likely voters" is not just that how conservative they are. It's how much more conservative they are than the actual Wisconsin electorate of recent years."

    See more data and interpretation here.  Or not; sorry, but embedding is not working today.  So here's the url, before it is deleted: http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/104491849.html

    Even more interesting when you consider... (none / 0) (#41)
    by Dadler on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 12:24:40 PM EST
    ...90 percent of those folks would be unable to give you an actual working definition of what they consider conservatism.

    Most folks are voting against things, but have no real ideas or policies to contribute as alternatives.

    Anger + ignorance + too many years of consumer ease = dysfunction beyond measure.

    I believe we are such a consumerist, entertainment culture that it will take a genuine entertainer, a comedian, a Stephen Colbert who actually WANTS to be a leader, to change this screwy place.

    Parent

    I guess this notary law thing (none / 0) (#19)
    by scribe on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 11:51:09 AM EST
    and it passing so quickly without opposition just tells us how much influence Elizabeth Warren has and will have.

    Wow (none / 0) (#21)
    by squeaky on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 11:54:24 AM EST
    Are you saying that Warren is a patsy?

    Apart from the usual naysayers, most of what I have read about Warren's temperament suggests that she would not either take or remain in a job that was toothless.

    Parent

    Not that she's a patsy, but rather (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by scribe on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 12:10:02 PM EST
    that the forces arrayed against her are so pervasive and well- and inter-connected that she stands little chance.

    Of course, she could always give a nice interview to 60 minutes or something and say "the President's more interested in saving he banks than in supporting or defending consumers."  Then let him fire her.

    Parent

    Fire Her? (none / 0) (#44)
    by squeaky on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 12:28:33 PM EST
    That is not the Elizabeth Warren I know.

    She would quit first, with a scathing statement.

    Parent

    Naw. Y'gotta make the scathing statement (none / 0) (#52)
    by scribe on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 01:00:08 PM EST
    first, because no one will pay attention to her taking a shot after she gets shown the door.

    Plus, if she makes the scathing statement and they fire her, it validates what she said.  And if they don't fire her, she's moving the Overton window.

    Parent

    Question to labor law-types (none / 0) (#22)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 11:56:21 AM EST
    or anyone else who's in the know.

    Yesterday we discussed how online news sites are kicking the traditional newspaper's butts.

    The main reason for this, apparently, is because the online news sites can provide the news for a fraction of the cost a bricks-and-mortar traditional newspaper can.

    As it turns out, one of the main reasons online news can do what they do so cheaply is because, usually, they don't pay their writers. The observation was made that Whitman pays her house cleaners more than Huffington pays her writers.

    So my question is, is it legal for a business, like HuffPo, to not pay it's writers?

    Is it legal for one biz to compete with another by, literally, not paying it's workers?

    Depends on the law of the state (none / 0) (#32)
    by scribe on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 12:11:45 PM EST
    involved (which, given the internet, can be several states) and how the work arrangement is characterized.  

    And any idiot can work for free, if he's not willing to push a claim for wages.

    Parent

    It's gotta be tough to make a living in a job (none / 0) (#36)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 12:16:01 PM EST
    that others will do for free.

    Parent
    Sure. It's been going on in journalism (none / 0) (#35)
    by Cream City on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 12:14:25 PM EST
    for eons.  Write a letter to the editor, an op ed?  Fills space.

    Freelancers long have charged less and saved media from adding fulltime staff.

    And interns, college students, often are unpaid -- and actually pay tuition to get credit for the privilege of job training/job taking from others.

    Parent

    J should pay us. (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 12:16:52 PM EST


    Parent
    Funny photo: (none / 0) (#33)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 12:12:54 PM EST
    Captured sunbather

    That is amusing (none / 0) (#42)
    by MO Blue on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 12:25:20 PM EST


    Parent
    kdog alert: see NYT re state legislature (none / 0) (#49)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 12:52:50 PM EST
    moving to ban food stamps for sodas.

    Saw that... (none / 0) (#55)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 01:25:25 PM EST
    Lame...let the poor kids have a can of Coke with their franks and beans ya heartless bastards!  

    Yes, the kids should drink milk (or is that bad now?)/water/wheatgrass juice/whatever the public health cops are touting this week, but are you really gonna bust chops over it?  Good lord.

    Hopefully Coke and Pepsi are cutting checks as we speak to hit the brakes on this.

    Parent

    if it was just a can of coke (none / 0) (#63)
    by nycstray on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 01:55:55 PM EST
    it prob wouldn't be an issue. as it is, many families use soda like/instead of milk and water. my niece gets WIC assistance. they have certain things they can buy. i don't think soda is one of them. it's supposed to be about nutrition.

    Parent
    Heaven forfend. (none / 0) (#66)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 02:09:44 PM EST


    Parent
    I hear ya... (none / 0) (#69)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 02:11:22 PM EST
    but to that little kid who through no fault of their own is on food stamps, it will feel like a punishment to be on unhealthy food and water while their friends are on unhealthy food and soda.

    We can promote health in other ways...this stinks of more war on the poor.  Allow the kids a few simple, if unhealthy, pleasures.

    Not to mention sugar grape drink is cheaper than sugar grape juice...are they gonna up eveybodies food stamp allotment to make up the cost difference to healhier fare?

    Parent

    Of the many interesting positions you've (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 02:24:55 PM EST
    taken over the years, I think this is now my favorite!:
    it will feel like a punishment to be on unhealthy food and water while their friends are on unhealthy food and soda.


    Parent
    in NYC they do (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by nycstray on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 02:28:01 PM EST
    your food stamps dollars go farther at the farmers market. in the schools, the 'bad' drinks are considered based on sugar content, iirc, so your sugar juice might still get as bad a rap as your sugar drink. iirc, Arizona tea has one of the top 'offenders' in sugar content. they tend to lump soda, 'energy' drinks, teas, sugar juice etc all together. at school, the kids prob won't notice who has and who doesn't.

    the kid can still have the occasional soda. mom n' pop just can't buy it with food stamps any more than they could with WIC dollars. i think this is more about buying liters of sugar vs liters of nutrition on the grocery shopping trip. kinda funny we should be worrying that a kid would feel bad because he can't always have can of sugar with his lunch. my how times have changed :)

    Parent

    it is kinda funny... (none / 0) (#74)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 02:38:46 PM EST
    that something so stupid is on the legislative agenda with all our problems...but I guess it's not a big deal either way, though this health police movement in general gives me the creeps.

    Or maybe I'm just still steaming that I was forced to drink milk with dinner as a kid...only exception being Chinese take-out, soda permitted with my MSG.

    I know pops meant well, but my current Coca-Cola addiction might be attributed to this childhood trauma...I can't get enough of the stuff! :)

    Parent

    I wasn't allowed sodas either (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by nycstray on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 02:50:02 PM EST
    milk at all meals. I'm sure there were the occasional exceptions, but darned if I remember them, lol!~

    i don't think it's so stupid. what it ends up doing is regulating the industry more than us. look at the transfat issue. when NYC says no, the industry has to do something broader than just NYC. same with sodium. same with sugar. the industry may have labels on their products, but many people don't read the labels on items they buy all the time. you don't realize when what was once just a bit bad for you became really bad for you. the industry doesn't believe in moderation (or nutrition for that matter!). heck, now they are trying to rename HFCS to corn sugar and convincing us it's ok :)

    Parent

    I see a slippery slope... (none / 0) (#80)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 03:20:21 PM EST
    Many elderly people are on food stamps too...you're gonna tell a 90 year old WWII vet he can't buy soda with his food stamps?  And when SS payments go totally paperless, are they gonna deny the swipe for a soda, a pack of butts, or a bottle?  How far will the health police go?  We're overpopulated on this orb as it is:)

    I say just mandate honest reporting of ingredients/nutritional info, enforce same, educate the public on good health and nutrition...and we be big boys and girls.  I know the coporate food industry is trying to kill me, but they ain't tellin' me how to live like Big Brother Bloomie and the crew, as benevolent as their intentions may be it's bordering on benevolent tyranny...and at that point I'll take my chances with the Conagra killers...at least they have the decency to let me die in peace with a Twinkie in one hand and a 'boro Red in the other:)

    Parent

    Oh, yes. Milk was the imposed drink. (none / 0) (#84)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 03:50:13 PM EST
    But do I ever have terrific bone density.  On the other hand, my older brother doesn't and he drank milk too.  My mom wouldn't allow soda ever, except when we were on the road on vacation, in limited amounts.  Her brother told her truck drivers use Coke to remove the bugs from the windshield!  Think what that does to your stomach!!!!

    Parent
    Coke removes rust also . . . :) (none / 0) (#86)
    by nycstray on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 03:53:24 PM EST


    Parent
    Too funny... (none / 0) (#87)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 03:59:35 PM EST
    extremist vegans would bring all our parents up on charges!

    Parent
    And then there is the (none / 0) (#89)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 06:22:22 PM EST
    "clean plate club."

    Parent
    Milk came with every meal (none / 0) (#94)
    by the capstan on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 07:39:20 PM EST
    right thru high school.  Downside: I am allergic to cow's milk.

    Parent
    Oh and I believe it's Pepsi (none / 0) (#73)
    by nycstray on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 02:30:03 PM EST
    that partnered with Bill Clinton on getting cans of sugar out of schools . . .   ;)

    Parent
    The poor kids... (none / 0) (#75)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 02:39:52 PM EST
    no Pepsi in the caf today, and maybe an mj arrest later.

    Thanks Big Dog!

    Parent

    I think they are allowing (none / 0) (#79)
    by nycstray on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 02:54:34 PM EST
    serving size cans in some cases. a 20oz bottle is 2.5 servings. I think a can is 2?

    hey, I marked my ballot for prop 19 :) kinda fun . . .

    Parent

    In my day, cola came (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by the capstan on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 07:43:28 PM EST
    in 6 ounce bottles.  That changed about 1960, and everyone I knew complained that 12 ounces was just too much to drink.  (Even with introductory price of 5 cents a bottle.)

    Parent
    Thats my girl... (none / 0) (#81)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 03:23:50 PM EST
    its lookin' good to pass isn't it?

    Now there is one we might agree more on...serving sizes in the nutritional chart.  On what planet is a two-pack of Reese's Peanut Butter Cups 2 servings and a can of soda 2 servings?  

    Lets fix that for more accurate nutritional info on the label.

    Parent

    They have RPC labeled for 2 servings?! (none / 0) (#82)
    by nycstray on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 03:34:25 PM EST
    {head desk} How many servings is a reg candy bar these days?

    if it passes, i'll grow a plant in your honor :)

    Parent

    That is an honor... (none / 0) (#83)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 03:45:24 PM EST
    with your green thumb skills I'm sure she will be a real beauty!

    And yeah, last I read a PBC label for unintentional comedy it was two servings.

    Parent

    Rahm went away (none / 0) (#58)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 01:33:45 PM EST
    I need a new sig line and I'm inspired by nothing today.  Wonder why?

    Well, whatever you come up with, (5.00 / 2) (#60)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 01:47:44 PM EST
    I will be happy to get it notarized for you...

    :-)

    Parent

    I'm thinking something along the lines of (none / 0) (#61)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 01:51:01 PM EST
    Meet the real Patrick Leahy, he aspires to be the next Christopher Dodd

    Parent
    Wasn't Leahy the fellow who (none / 0) (#85)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 03:52:02 PM EST
    so loudly and proudly announced he would hold hearings on torture, Bush admins. wrongs, etc.?

    Parent
    There has been quite a line (none / 0) (#101)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 09:51:18 PM EST
    of those guys who in end did nothing.

    Parent
    Laugh or Cry? (none / 0) (#64)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 01:59:07 PM EST
    We've got so many ex-cons being electronically monitored the monitoring system crashed for 12 hours when it hit its 2 billion record data threshold...yes, billion with a B.

    But fear not authoritarians, the data problem is fixed, monitoring and reporting has resumed as per normal tyranny-lite standards.

    Our criminal justice problems, otoh...thats gonna take a lot more than a member of the geek squad to fix.

    I wonder what they count as (none / 0) (#68)
    by nycstray on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 02:10:55 PM EST
    "record data" since they were only tracking 16,000 people?

    Parent
    I'm guessing every movement... (none / 0) (#70)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 02:12:24 PM EST
    is a record or something like that.

    Parent
    Let's work blue (none / 0) (#67)
    by Dadler on Thu Oct 07, 2010 at 02:10:45 PM EST
    Comic Lisa Lampanelli roasts Chevy Chase. WARNING: not for the children or pet parrots. Forgive me for offending anyone with this link. But, um, that's kind of the point.

    Al Franken roasts Chevy

    Stephen Colbert roasts said SNL alum.

    Thursday Morning Open Thread | 108 comments (108 topical)

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