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The Laws Of War And Status Determination For Alleged Enemy Combatatns

Regarding the Ghailhani "terror trial" result, Glenn Greenwald writes:

But even had [Ghailiani] had been acquitted on all counts, the Obama administration had made clear that it would simply continue to imprison him anyway under what it claims is the President's "post-acquittal detention power" -- i.e., when an accused Terrorist is wholly acquitted in court, he can still be imprisoned indefinitely by the U.S. Government under the "law of war" even when the factual bases for the claim that he's an "enemy combatant" (i.e. that he blew up the two embassies) are the same ones underlying the crimes for which he was fully acquitted after a full trial.

This is a long running disagreement I have with Glenn - I do believe the President has pre- and post- acquittal detention power, subject to the Laws of War (the Geneva Conventions), as Commander in Chief, regarding enemy combatants. The key remains, as I have written many times, a fair and open status determination process as required by the Geneva Convention. I've been remiss on following the progress of President Obama's vaunted review for recommendations regarding a status determination process. To me, it remains the key issue regarding the terror suspect detainees.

Speaking for me only

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    Okay, I get the whole (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by Anne on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 11:45:02 AM EST
    Laws of War thing, but given that this is a "war" with no defined borders or particular geographical base, and interpretation of who does and doesn't fit the rules/laws seems to be wildly subjective, I think it is dangerous to throw in a token layer of what resembles our civilian judicial process.

    And I think that, if the (wink-wink) plan is apparently to hold the accused no matter what the outcome, using the fiction of criminal trials conducted under that civilian process takes us into Third World-banana republic territory, doesn't it?

    We've already seen way too much blurring of the lines, too much fast-and-loose with "rules" and "laws" for my comfort - I could do with fewer precedents along these lines and more preservation, protection and defense of the Constitution, but that's probably also not on "the table."


    Apply the model from civil commitment (none / 0) (#10)
    by andgarden on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 11:49:08 AM EST
    At least, that's one possibility.

    Parent
    BTD, (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by cpinva on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 12:17:30 PM EST
    please provide case cites to support your claim of executive power to indefinitely detain anyone, foreign or domestic, for any reason. i just don't recall seeing or reading that anywhere. it kind of makes the president sound like, oh, i don't know, a king or something.

    i could be wrong, but i'd swear we aren't a monarchy here.

    You didn't ask me (none / 0) (#12)
    by jbindc on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 02:18:03 PM EST
    But Glenn lays it out pretty well here including:

    (1) What does "preventive detention" allow?  

    It's important to be clear about what "preventive detention" authorizes.  It does not merely allow the U.S. Government to imprison people alleged to have committed Terrorist acts yet who are unable to be convicted in a civilian court proceeding.  That class is merely a subset, perhaps a small subset, of who the Government can detain.  Far more significant, "preventive detention" allows indefinite imprisonment not based on proven crimes or past violations of law, but of those deemed generally "dangerous" by the Government for various reasons (such as, as Obama put it yesterday, they "expressed their allegiance to Osama bin Laden" or "otherwise made it clear that they want to kill Americans").  That's what "preventive" means:  imprisoning people because the Government claims they are likely to engage in violent acts in the future because they are alleged to be "combatants."  

    Once known, the details of the proposal could -- and likely will -- make this even more extreme by extending the "preventive detention" power beyond a handful of Guantanamo detainees to anyone, anywhere in the world, alleged to be a "combatant."  After all, once you accept the rationale on which this proposal is based -- namely, that the U.S. Government must, in order to keep us safe, preventively detain "dangerous" people even when they can't prove they violated any laws -- there's no coherent reason whatsoever to limit that power to people already at Guantanamo, as opposed to indefinitely imprisoning with no trials all allegedly "dangerous" combatants, whether located in Pakistan, Thailand, Indonesia, Western countries and even the U.S.



    Parent
    pretty amazing (none / 0) (#1)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 10:04:36 AM EST
    Sounds awful (none / 0) (#2)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 10:24:18 AM EST
    3 of my least favorite pundits/pols.

    Parent
    it was awful (none / 0) (#3)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 10:27:43 AM EST
    but Turley at least tried to make some sane points.  but he was unable to because Pataki is  used to being on FOX and shouting people down.

    Parent
    If your theory (and the President's) (none / 0) (#4)
    by oculus on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 10:31:09 AM EST
    is correct, I see no need for a criminal trial, either in federal district court or elsewhere.  Why bother?  

    I disagree (none / 0) (#5)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 10:58:13 AM EST
    My personal view is that military trials should be held consistent with the UCMJ because Laws of War were violated.

    A POW is not a criminal.

    Parent

    Are you in support of current admins. (none / 0) (#6)
    by oculus on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 11:06:37 AM EST
    thinking U.S. military will be in Afghanistan through 2014?  Tanks en route (why the delay?).  

    Parent
    I believe (none / 0) (#7)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 11:25:15 AM EST
    the Af/Pak situation is critical to our national interests.

    Timetables matter less to me than whether policy is working. If someone is interested in persuading me that we should withdraw our military presence in the area, convince the policy is not working. The 2014 thing is not my focus.


    Parent

    POW gets no trial (none / 0) (#13)
    by diogenes on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 07:02:39 PM EST
    A POW certified by the Geneva Convention has no right to demand release, only the right to demand certain treatment as listed in the Geneva Convention.
    Somehow I don't think that Jeralyn's certification of combatant status within the Geneva Convention has anything to do with the right have one's status verified in a civilian court, by a jury, or even in a public forum.  
    You don't determine the status of a combatant in a civilian jury trial.  If you determine that someone is in fact not a combatant or POW, then you would have to have a jury trial to bring any criminal charges.

    Parent
    A competent tribunal (none / 0) (#14)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Nov 21, 2010 at 09:20:03 AM EST
    is the Geneva Convention's phrase, not "Jeralyn's."

    Parent
    We had this discussion in another thread, (none / 0) (#9)
    by andgarden on Fri Nov 19, 2010 at 11:47:50 AM EST
    but Boumediene suggests that the right model is a habeas proceeding. But which one?

    Parent