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Tuesday Night Open Thread

I am just getting done with work and have an early court day tomorrow. Unfortunately, I haven't seen a bit of news all day.

Tonight on Fronline: The Confessions, the story of the Norfolk Four:

How could four men confess to a brutal crime that they didn't commit? FRONTLINE goes inside the incredible saga of the Norfolk Four -- a case that cracks open the justice system to reveal almost everything that goes wrong when innocent people get convicted.

Here's an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    I must be the most (none / 0) (#1)
    by oculus on Tue Nov 09, 2010 at 11:00:47 PM EST
    fortunate person on this planet. Intermission @ San Francisco Opera. Placido Domingo, in excellent voice, singing Cyrano.

    Yes, very fortunate (none / 0) (#2)
    by christinep on Wed Nov 10, 2010 at 12:08:39 AM EST
    'Just returned from an opera in Denver tonight.  The oldest of chestnuts (but sweet) in La Boheme. While it was lovely as always, when you mentioned Placido Domingo, I sighed. It also brought a long ago memory, circa 1981, when we went to another Boheme here as the Colorado Opera's very first production...with Placido as Rudolfo. It felt as if he were singing directly to you. It is good to know that he is feeling well again.

    Parent
    You're in SF?! (none / 0) (#3)
    by nycstray on Wed Nov 10, 2010 at 12:35:30 AM EST
    you should take a ferry ride and we could meet for coffee :)

    enjoy the second half!

    Parent

    Would enjoy mtg. you. Maybe next (none / 0) (#48)
    by oculus on Fri Nov 12, 2010 at 02:19:33 PM EST
    opera trip.  Was sickly after second opera and didn't accomplish anything on Thurs.  Better and home now.

    Parent
    been seeing this commercial (none / 0) (#4)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Nov 10, 2010 at 08:16:38 AM EST
    for "my marriage matters.com".  which sounds fine but if you watch the commercial I think you will find it veers into some sketchy territory with the flag and all.
    so I just visited the site.
    some of the featured ads was these:

    Cell Phone Spyingwww.TheCellSnoop.com
    Spy on Text Messages & Phone Calls Undetectable! Works with all Phones

    sounds wholesome and all american to me!

    LOL! (none / 0) (#7)
    by Zorba on Wed Nov 10, 2010 at 08:24:06 AM EST
    If you have a reason to think that you need to spy on your spouse's cell phone calls and text messages, chances are, if the marriage wasn't already pretty much over to begin with, it will be when he/she finds out you've been snooping.  They ought to market these things to parents who are worried about their under-age kids sexting or getting involved with predators, instead.  (Although, they probably do, come to think of it.)

    Parent
    one of the other ads (none / 0) (#9)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Nov 10, 2010 at 08:26:13 AM EST
    was something like "how to stop your divorce".
    after they find out you have been snooping on them I guess.

    Parent
    Wonder if that is part of the (none / 0) (#10)
    by MO Blue on Wed Nov 10, 2010 at 08:33:40 AM EST
    Federal Healthy Marriage Initiative. One of the many ways the government wastes money to appease the "the U.S. is a Christian nation" group.

    Parent
    Diebold machine... (none / 0) (#5)
    by kdog on Wed Nov 10, 2010 at 08:20:16 AM EST
    malfunctioning caught on video...or maybe thats how they're designed to work.

    Im going with "B" (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Nov 10, 2010 at 08:22:55 AM EST
    unbelievably he says "they were aware of the problem"

    Parent
    This might finally be the way to shut this down (none / 0) (#13)
    by sj on Wed Nov 10, 2010 at 08:59:53 AM EST
    No one else reported an issue (none / 0) (#17)
    by republicratitarian on Wed Nov 10, 2010 at 09:46:04 AM EST
    they must've  been voting R, :)

    It said he was unable to vote for his candidate, do they not have an alternative way to cast your vote? I would think you could do a write-in or something.

    Parent

    two questions (none / 0) (#8)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Nov 10, 2010 at 08:24:32 AM EST
    how is it possible in the connected and googled and snoped world we live in that there are people who will fall for this:

    Dear Friend,

    With due respect, I know this mail will come to you as a paramount contents. I am Brr.Meco Mohammed, the principle of BT AT LAW FIRM. I hope you will not expose or betray the trust and confident that I am about to repose on you for the mutual benefit of our both families.

    I need your urgent assistance in transferring the sum of $25 million immediately to your account.

    and 2,  is there really nothing the justice system can do about this?

    As they say, (none / 0) (#11)
    by Zorba on Wed Nov 10, 2010 at 08:37:13 AM EST
    There's a sucker born every minute.  If it's coming in snail mail (not email), it is mail fraud, a federal offense (assuming they're caught).  If it's email, I have no idea what can be done about it except get a good spam filter.  Don't most of these types of email originate overseas?

    Parent
    yep (none / 0) (#12)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Nov 10, 2010 at 08:48:58 AM EST
    this one was clearly from another country.  but dont we have treaties and stuff?  this is just so blatant.  if it affected rich people they would call it a form of terrorism if they really wanted to do something about it seems to me.

    Parent
    For question #1, there are 2 answers. (none / 0) (#14)
    by EL seattle on Wed Nov 10, 2010 at 09:01:55 AM EST
    1.)  There might be newcomers to the whole internet experience who could be fooled into believing scams like this.

    -and-

    2.) There are certainly a lot of novice shady operators who think that there are enough people in category (1.) to make a financial investment in bot software and e-mail lists wothwhile, because they're convinced that it will be their ticket to the solid gold dream.

    Maybe we should try to enjoy this period of naive scamming while it lasts.  If/when software solutions like this  jump over to the realm of cyber stalking, I think that the web may get cluttered with harassing bots pretty fast.

    Parent

    I guess (none / 0) (#15)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Nov 10, 2010 at 09:19:38 AM EST
    its like those "free, just pay shipping and handling" commercials.  
    if some didnt fall for it they would not be so many of them.  
    still.  amazing.


    Parent
    Question 2... (none / 0) (#20)
    by kdog on Wed Nov 10, 2010 at 10:11:46 AM EST
    if we need the justice dept. to do something, all is already lost.  Personally I'm in no mood to require protection from those tasked with protecting me from internet scam artists.

    Question 1 is easy...gold fever.  It does crazy things to people.

    Parent

    Two articles just to get you going kdog (none / 0) (#22)
    by MO Blue on Wed Nov 10, 2010 at 10:37:44 AM EST
    health pron. (none / 0) (#24)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Nov 10, 2010 at 10:50:47 AM EST
    I smoked for many years... and unti I was ablte to finally quit, cigarettes could have had photos of cancerous lungs on them, I would have purchased. Addiction isn't like a lifestyle choice.

    I knew cigarettes were horrible for me. The coughing after a run and the nasty cig hangover let me know without packaging. It's called "addiction."

    Parent

    I agree (none / 0) (#27)
    by MO Blue on Wed Nov 10, 2010 at 11:05:05 AM EST
    People who smoke will purchase cigarettes regardless of the pictures. I also quite after smoking for years and even now there are times when I really, really want a cigarette.

    Parent
    I always thought (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Nov 10, 2010 at 11:42:10 AM EST
    that maybe it should be required that people in fast food commercials be chosen completely at random from their largely morbidly obese walk in customers.

    Parent
    I concur... (none / 0) (#36)
    by kdog on Wed Nov 10, 2010 at 11:46:50 AM EST
    you could put the most graphic photos of black lungs imaginable on the box and I'm still buying...but I don't think it is fair to make people look at that mess, especially non-smokers...as you guys said smokers are well aware, the education campaign has been very sucessful as to the dangers of smoking...enough is enough....its just grand-standing now and scoring cheap points with the anti-smoking zealots.

    The anti-smoking commercials of amputees and assorted one in a millions they run in NY I have a much bigger problem with, they go way over the top with the scare tactics...I did not appreciate having to explain to my young nieces that smoking is very bad for you but 99.9% of smokers have both their feet.  And as the war on drugs has taught us, when you mislead the youth and exaggerate the danger, you run the risk of the kids doubting everything you say...like when the DARE officer told me in 5th grade that you could die from smoking a joint.  When I got around to trying marijuana and realized the authorities f*ckin' lie, I wondered if they also lied about the dangers of cocaine and heroin.

    Parent

    MO Blue... (none / 0) (#33)
    by kdog on Wed Nov 10, 2010 at 11:36:21 AM EST
    always brings me the good sh*t:)  

    Sad peyote story...things really are tough all over, even for peyote distributors.  As for the shortage, thank goodness for synthetic mescaline.

    Parent

    Have to wonder if the Native Americans (none / 0) (#41)
    by MO Blue on Wed Nov 10, 2010 at 12:05:08 PM EST
    will think that "synthetic mescaline" provides the same spiritual or traditional effect as the real stuff. I guess as with everything else people eventually come to terms with what is available when that is the only choice they have.

    Hope you don't think I'm picking on you by directing these posts to your attention. They are articles that I find interesting and feel that you would have interesting responses to them.

    Parent

    Not at all... (none / 0) (#44)
    by kdog on Wed Nov 10, 2010 at 01:21:51 PM EST
    keep 'em comin', you find some doozies!

    For spiritual use I wouldn't want synthetic mescaline...I'd want the real deal, straight from the earth.  Recreational use, otoh, synthetic mescaline was the best trip I ever took.

    Parent

    it might be time to panic (none / 0) (#16)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Nov 10, 2010 at 09:26:22 AM EST
    Fancy a bit of chocolate? An afternoon Kit Kat with your cup of tea? A chunk of fruit and nut? Go on, you've earned it.

    Except that in the future, chocoholics might have to work quite a bit harder to pay for their fix. The world could run out of affordable chocolate within 20 years as farmers abandon their crops in the global cocoa basket of West Africa, industry experts claim.



    Good article on health insurance (none / 0) (#18)
    by MO Blue on Wed Nov 10, 2010 at 09:49:01 AM EST
    Interesting article (none / 0) (#19)
    by republicratitarian on Wed Nov 10, 2010 at 10:09:42 AM EST
    I wonder which would be better, trying to fix that massive stinker of a health care bill or starting over from scratch?

    Parent
    The legislation IMO should be scratched (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by MO Blue on Wed Nov 10, 2010 at 10:59:24 AM EST
    but I doubt that will happen. Regardless of what the Republicans say they would not repeal the whole thing even if they could. The insurance companies have invested large amounts of cash make sure that they get the best of both worlds. They backed the Dems in 08, wrote large segments of the legislation so that the taxpayers would purchase their overpriced products for those unable to pay and mandated insurance coverage for every one else.  In 10 they backed the Republicans so that they would further weaken or get rid of those pesky regulations.

    Though the insurers won the insurance mandate they wanted from President Barack Obama and the Democrats, they opposed the overall bill and now say they want to be sure the regulations they face aren't onerous. A Republican-controlled Congress might accomplish that by pressuring the Health and Human Services Department through its control of the department's budget or by subjecting regulators to congressional hearings.

    A central worry for insurers is a planned requirement that companies spend a minimum 80 percent of premiums on medical care or rebate the difference to policy holders. They also want a say in defining what would be considered "excessive" premium increases that could expose an insurance company to sanctions.

    The attention to regulation is also playing out at the state level, where insurance regulators hold significant sway. Between 2005 and 2008, health insurance companies and health maintenance organizations contributed more than $32 million to state office holders, political parties and ballot measure committees, according to the National Institute on Money in State Politics. The top four insurers - WellPoint, UnitedHealth Group, Humana and Aetna - gave a quarter of that amount.  link



    Parent
    I'm beginning to root for (none / 0) (#21)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Nov 10, 2010 at 10:14:51 AM EST
    the GOP state AGs to succeed in their court challenge.

    Parent
    yep... even the few bright spots in (none / 0) (#23)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Nov 10, 2010 at 10:47:23 AM EST
    the health insurance bill, pre-existing conditions and childrens ages, could have been passed as stand-alones, I think.

    I don't know why we celebrate the health insurance reform mandate bill.

    Parent

    No, please (none / 0) (#47)
    by christinep on Wed Nov 10, 2010 at 05:48:18 PM EST
    It is one thing to be upset, even discouraged. But, you know that the Republicans would give you nothing (as in nada) in exchange for that wish. Courage, gyrfalcon.

    Parent
    The only thing that is inaccurate (none / 0) (#26)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Wed Nov 10, 2010 at 11:02:18 AM EST
    in this article is his conclusion that "it doesn't matter" if we have the bill or not.  Utter BS.

    The bill is creating HUGE problems for individual insurees, in my state at least. If insurance companies were "nice guys" maybe everything would have been fine, but they AREN'T and they're making as much hay around this bill as they can.  And it's costing the insured BIGTIME.

    And mandates are coming soon. I figure at that point we'll have rioting in the streets.

    However, repealing the bill now will create even greater problems, because the insurance companies have already taken enough of the chunks they want and they won't give them back if the bill is repealed -- but they will go back on the things they don't like. The toothpaste is already out of the tube, as they say. Thus, it can't be repealed, it has to be FIXED.  The only fix I know is to compete with the insurance companies via a public option.

    Parent

    I think the only way to get out (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by Anne on Wed Nov 10, 2010 at 11:56:43 AM EST
    of this rabbit hole the current Act has sent us down would be to completely re-write legislation  - an outside group may have to be the ones who do that, because Congress is just not going to take it on again - that not only corrects the major problems we know are there, but upon passage and signing by the president, would fully repeal the prior Act.

    That new legislation could, for example, establish an enhanced Medicare program that would phase in first for those, say, 55-64, then for those 45-54 and so on, with none of this first-you-have-to-be-denied-by-a-private-insurance-company nonsense.

    This would be the best form of "public option" available, and would, I think, lay a foundation for transition to a single-payer system.  I see no reason it would not work from a care standpoint - which is what this should have been about all along - notwithstanding the problems people feel we have with the existing Medicare program - that can be solved without reducing benefits.

    As the enhanced program is being phased in, the private insurance industry needs to be subject to serious regulation, Wall Street be damned.  For all the fear that if Congress makes the industry mad and it will cut off the campaign and PAC contributions that help them get re-elected - have they even considered how happy people of all political persuasions  - including business owners large and small - would be to vote for the people and the party that made health CARE a right and not a privilege afforded only to the wealthy?

    Is any of this possible?  I'm a firm believer that, in theory, all things are possible, and I don't think there's any doubt that there are any number of people willing to move heaven and earth to make it possible - but if those people aren't currently populating the halls of Congress or the WH, I don't give it much of a shot.


    Parent

    I kind of had the same thought (none / 0) (#42)
    by republicratitarian on Wed Nov 10, 2010 at 12:15:49 PM EST
    A whole new bill is put forth then repeal the old one at the same time. There seems to be so much wrong with the current one that most people would support something better. I don't how much stomach anyone has for that.

    I'm curious if the R's in power would repeal with the intention of trying something new, repeal with no intention of trying to pass anything new or dragging it out to run on against Obama in 2012.

    Parent

    from your typing to (none / 0) (#28)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Nov 10, 2010 at 11:13:45 AM EST
    someone, somewhere, in power.

    Parent
    Agree his conclusion that (none / 0) (#29)
    by MO Blue on Wed Nov 10, 2010 at 11:20:39 AM EST
    "it doesn't matter" is bull. Disagree that a public option is the only way to fix it. The structure of the last public options in the House and Senate bills were purposely written in such a way that they would never be able to compete with the insurance companies. In fact, IMO they were so bad that if the Dems and the insurance companies had been smarter they would have left them in the legislation to prove that private insurance is the only way to go.

    If we want a health care system that works, we need to eliminate private for profit insurance for basic care. Since corporate donations purchase the provisions in  our legislation, the current system will have to completely fail to the point the majority of people do not have health care and they take to the streets for us to adopt a workable system.

    Parent

    Exactly (none / 0) (#32)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 10, 2010 at 11:36:10 AM EST
    they are getting to raise the rates and blaming the bill so it works in their favor in that regard BUT if the bill is repealed then the rates aren't going down.

    This bill let's the insurers off the hook unfortunately.

    One good thing that would come out of repealing the bill is that once again people will realize that the insurance companies are the ones that are screwing them.

    Parent

    sully has an interesting chart up (none / 0) (#30)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Nov 10, 2010 at 11:26:47 AM EST
    on the popularity or repealing HRC.

    shorter version, it aint popular.

    reprinted (none / 0) (#31)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Nov 10, 2010 at 11:27:35 AM EST
    Well (none / 0) (#34)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 10, 2010 at 11:40:47 AM EST
    I agree with David Frum's prediction that the GOP will blink because the insurance companies like the mandates.

    The problem that I have with the bill is the fact that the part that helps people is really easy to defund and leaves them with no options other than to pay a fine or pay outrageous prices for junk insurance.

    Parent

    Daniels is wheels up? (none / 0) (#37)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Nov 10, 2010 at 11:47:06 AM EST
    Read some of the comments. (none / 0) (#38)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Nov 10, 2010 at 11:49:52 AM EST
    Tea Partiers don't like him, and he was called a RINO. Isn't he one of the original Reagan acolytes?

    Parent
    yes (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Nov 10, 2010 at 11:52:11 AM EST
    dont know much about him except that.  curious where he would come down on things to get that lable.

    a RINO these days is someone who doesnt think the earth is flat, right?


    Parent

    When I was three and twenty... (none / 0) (#43)
    by Dadler on Wed Nov 10, 2010 at 01:16:49 PM EST
    this is AWSUM (none / 0) (#45)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Nov 10, 2010 at 04:15:05 PM EST
    FALSE FLAG ATTACK PREDICTED BY THE SIMPSONS

    the somber music over the Simpsons footage almost made me wet myself.

    another thing.  the Illuminati has not only infiltrated Hollywood, Politics, the Military and the Music Industry.  we have also infiltrated the Game industry.

    what a f*cking day (none / 0) (#46)
    by CST on Wed Nov 10, 2010 at 04:27:13 PM EST
    slash week.

    you know it's bad when you forget a meal, and then forget that you forgot that meal, and then 4 hours later are stuck wondering why you're so hungry all of a sudden.  Answer - because you finally found 5 minutes to notice.

    Thank god for happy hour.  Who needs food when you have gin.  Just kidding... sort of.

    That leads me to this enlightening article, 10 ways to "easy" money.  Too bad I didn't plan my life around divorcing a beatle...  I prefer the ones like "find cr@p in your basement" to "whore yourself out to some rich guy".  But hey, to each his own.  I guess "being born with it" woulda been nice too.