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The Race To Cut The Deficit Starts Right After The Bush/Obama Tax Cuts

Ezra Klein writes:

[A WaPo poll a]sked whether Obama and the Republicans were sincere in their desire to reduce the budget deficit, Obama beat the Republicans by a wide margin[.]

Ezra thinks this is good news. I think it is terrible news. Now that the Bush/Obama tax cuts have passed, the race to prove "quien es mas macho" about cutting government spending has begun. Howard Fineman writes:

Republican leaders in Congress, blindsided by grassroots fury over the tax cut deal they made with President Obama, are now scrambling to show their allegiance to the anti-federal, anti-debt movement.

The GOP brass, led by Senate party leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.), did so tonight by eagerly backing the successful efforts of Tea Party favorites to block debate on a $1.1 trillion "omnibus" spending bill that would fund the entire federal government until next October [. . .] The omnibus bill also contained the spending priorities of the Obama administration and the soon-to-be-ended Democratic-controlled Congress.

[. . .] Game, set, match Tea Party.

Game, set, match, Grover Norquist and his project to dismantle the social safety net. Who will be the highest bidder in the Grover Norquist shrink the government sweepstakes? Will it be the "greatest progressive President since . . ." or the Norquist GOP? I think it is going to be a tie.

Laissez les bons temps rouler.

Speaking for me only

< The Norquist Strategy: Part 2 Starts In February | Dream Act Goes Down, DADT Repeal Succeeds On Cloture Vote >
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    Obama will race to give them cuts (5.00 / 5) (#4)
    by MO Blue on Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 02:30:44 PM EST
    that they could never achieve in a thousand years. His cheerleaders will clap loudly and say how good it is that Obama and the Dems will be able to take credit for dismantling all the New Deal programs.

    Clap louder everyone. Put all your chickens in some billionaire's pot. Corporation and the very wealthy (including your president and Congress) need all government's services devoted to them. You should be willing to sacrifice everything for them.

    That's how to act with a mandate! (5.00 / 4) (#29)
    by Towanda on Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 03:56:56 PM EST
    Too bad that liberals thought that the 2008 election gave Obama a resounding mandate.  

    It's the 2010 election that Obama sees as his mandate.


    Parent

    Obama live (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by waldenpond on Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 02:56:59 PM EST
    Advertisement.... watch Obama make history (yep, that's what he said).  Don't forget to celebrate that you will see this in your paycheck.  

    The talking heads are just giddy.

    On the road to the second Great Depression (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 03:16:05 PM EST
    How Sweet it is!

    There's no (none / 0) (#8)
    by Warren Terrer on Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 03:25:58 PM EST
    second Great Depression coming. Just a lost decade.

    Parent
    Starting when? (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by waldenpond on Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 03:29:34 PM EST
    This will be longer than 10 years.  We are talking structural change.  We are abandoning democracy for an oligarchy (some like to call it an aristocracy)... but the stock market is fine.

    Parent
    The double dip is coming (5.00 / 2) (#14)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 03:33:23 PM EST
    The problems are global.  We have four different crisis about to hit all at once.  I am not convinced we won't have a second Great Depression.  Not that anybody will call it that.  Maybe they'll call it the doubly dipped lost decade and a half with a twist.

    Parent
    And a cherry on top. n/t (none / 0) (#35)
    by inclusiveheart on Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 04:13:23 PM EST
    Actually (5.00 / 2) (#15)
    by Warren Terrer on Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 03:33:29 PM EST
    I would agree we have already had a lost 30 years or so. With the exception of a brief period in the late 90s the US economy has been performing well below its potential since the 1970s.

    Parent
    I know. (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 03:38:04 PM EST
    I lived through the 80's and there weren't that many jobs then either though not as bad as it is now. The 90's was the only time I saw a good economy in my entire lifetime.

    Parent
    You don't know that (none / 0) (#9)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 03:29:14 PM EST
    1937 (5.00 / 3) (#12)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 03:31:57 PM EST
    Is an important point in history to consider when discussing the Norquist Strategy.

    Parent
    I see things coming for us though (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 03:39:04 PM EST
    that are far worse than what happened in 1937.  In 1935, after the third bank panic....we finally passed the legislation that cleaned the banks up and created a foundation that all people could build a financial life upon.  We are no where near that or even near the last bank panic we will have before real regulation and reform returns.  I don't see this as a 1937 moment.  I see us much earlier right now on an encouraging a depression timeline.

    Parent
    I am not following you (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 03:41:51 PM EST
    the Great Depression was a result of a catastrophic drop in aggregate demand.

    1937 showed the beginnings of a new catastrophic drop in aggregate demand because FDr listened to Morganthau and severely cut government spending.  

    I think 1937 is very much a proper reference point.

    Parent

    There was a more solid foundation though (none / 0) (#23)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 03:46:14 PM EST
    for Americans to begin to recover upon.  The banks weren't insolvent and sound bookkeeping and business principles were in play again.  The whole system is so corrupt right now, we haven't found the bottom of anything yet in order to be able to really address the aggregate demand difficulties.  The financial corruption drains the entire system of most of the inputs right now for the middle class IMO.

    Parent
    I don't know that the banks were (none / 0) (#42)
    by jeffinalabama on Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 04:59:43 PM EST
    truly solvent in 1937... they were still weak. However, the move away from public programs delayed recovery until World War II.

    Now if Obama is creating a draft-age body to fight WWIII by wrecking the economy, he's forgetting a few things: first, the collapse of the British Empire, and second, Einstein's statement: : "I don't know what WWIII will be fought with, but WW IV will be fought with sticks."

    Weak leaders aren't good. Polk comes to mind.

    Parent

    WWII was a public program: Ten million men (none / 0) (#57)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 07:33:44 PM EST
    and women were taken out of the work force.  The rest, as they say, was full employment.

    Parent
    Well (none / 0) (#16)
    by Warren Terrer on Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 03:34:27 PM EST
    I think a second recession is quite possible. But not a second Great Depression.

    Parent
    1937 did not become (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 03:39:39 PM EST
    a Second Great Depression because FDR reversed course.

    Geithner and Summers are our modern day Morganthaus.

    Parent

    The question then becomes (none / 0) (#24)
    by Warren Terrer on Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 03:47:56 PM EST
    Is Obama that stupid?

    Parent
    Not stupid (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 03:50:32 PM EST
    Misinformed imo.

    Parent
    Being that misinformed (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by Warren Terrer on Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 03:54:28 PM EST
    borders on stupidity imho.

    Parent
    Let me explain (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 03:59:12 PM EST
    Obama will not be acting in terms of best policy, but in terms of what he perceives will help his reelection.

    My perception is Obama is misinformed in believing he can manage the process by which he gets to pretend to be the more serious person regarding the deficit without giving in to GOP demands to cut government spending.

    He will accept the GOP cuts to project "seriousness" regardingg the deficit.


    Parent

    I agree (none / 0) (#31)
    by Warren Terrer on Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 04:03:44 PM EST
    I don't think it will cause a second great depression, however. Maybe I am misinformed about the extent of Obama's awfulness, and he will indeed go for a level of austerity that ushers in a second great depression. We live in interesting times.

    Parent
    They will still vote for him (5.00 / 2) (#38)
    by waldenpond on Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 04:32:50 PM EST
    Obama happens to be quite popular with dems, conservadems especially.

    I find these PPP numbers (via digby) stunning.  Actually, I think I find the ignorance of the US people stunning.

    You can tell people that tranferring billions to the wealthiest will mean they will have to cut their own MCR and SS but they still clap.  They are incapable of understanding they are screwing themselves.

    Parent

    All Obama cres about is hie re-election. (none / 0) (#77)
    by rennies on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 05:58:42 PM EST
    For god's sake isn't that absolutely apparent/ tranparent.

    Parent
    It just wasn't (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by lilburro on Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 03:56:05 PM EST
    politically possible to be smart!

    (I snark to hide the pain...)

    Parent

    No, but he is that impotent. (none / 0) (#32)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 04:07:59 PM EST
    I'm willing to bet (none / 0) (#11)
    by Warren Terrer on Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 03:31:38 PM EST
    heavily on it. In spite of the horrible economic policies of both parties we have enough automatic stabilizers still in place to prevent a depression. A lost decade is far more likely, a la Japan.

    Parent
    I am not as sanguine about (5.00 / 4) (#13)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 03:33:06 PM EST
    the conitnuing funding of "automatic stabilizers" as you are.

    AsI replied to Tracy, you must consider 1937 as an important point in history to keep in mind.

    Parent

    I'm not sanguine about it (none / 0) (#17)
    by Warren Terrer on Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 03:35:52 PM EST
    exactly.

    Parent
    Sample of one Middle- (5.00 / 3) (#22)
    by oculus on Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 03:44:41 PM EST
    age AA and self are watching Obama live touting the benefits of the tax deal for us. Man says:  he's lieing (sp.). I say, look, Biden isn't saying a word. Man says, that's because he knows they f*cked up the conomy. Ave. Of the Americas in front of NBC?  

    Is there some way we could just (5.00 / 4) (#25)
    by Anne on Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 03:50:08 PM EST
    give Obama to the GOP?  Wrap him in pretty paper, put a really nice bow on him and just hand him over?  I mean, considering that all we're getting out of Obama is coal in our Christmas stockings, and a trip to Hooverville, wouldn't that be fair?

    Honestly, I'm beginning to think that the ONLY way the scales are going to fall from the eyes of Democrats, still clinging to the fantasy that Obama is this amazing progressive political Grand Master of Multi-Dimensional Chess, is if Obama just makes it official and crosses over to the other side.

    Which, I realize, is never going to happen, and maybe it wouldn't make even the slightest bit of difference, but still...just think of how many people would stop making excuses for him, how many would maybe start demanding some accountability.  

    As it is, I feel like Obama is just suffocating the life out of everything that matters to me, and I can't breathe.

    Might be time to market some Obama products for the next two years: how about a fragrance line called "Despair," since we're all going to be smelling like that anyway?

    Despair scented toilet paper? (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 04:10:48 PM EST
    IMO, Obama is probably (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by observed on Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 04:12:47 PM EST
    a secret Santa gift from the GOP.

    Parent
    I've got the perfect headline (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by BJohnM on Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 04:26:51 PM EST
    Barack Obama: Best Republican President Ever

    Saw this on the back window of an SUV (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by Anne on Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 04:48:24 PM EST
    while I was out shopping this afternoon:

    One Big Ass Mistake America

    It would go well with my "2L4O" t-shirt: "Too Liberal For Obama."

    Don't know where to get the car window sticker, but you can go to Corrente and get the t-shirt from vastleft.

    Anne, you make me sad again (none / 0) (#43)
    by jeffinalabama on Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 05:01:37 PM EST
    in agreement.

    Puente Polonia... a beach shack... south of the Equator.

    Parent

    I'm sorry, Jeff - I don't mean to... (4.00 / 3) (#48)
    by Anne on Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 05:14:47 PM EST
    I'm sad, as well, if that helps; the whole thing - pretty much top to bottom - just makes me feel sick and a little scared.

    I wish I could find some glimmer of light I thought could be the beginning of a beacon of - dare I say it? - hope, but at this stage, I'd be more inclined to think it was a train coming right at us.

    Something's gotta give - and soon.

    Parent

    hey, you make it after I do, (none / 0) (#49)
    by jeffinalabama on Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 05:28:08 PM EST
    I'll help you build your shack. I'd rather be warm 365 days a year than cold. Please don't apologize for your vision. I'm coming to agree with it, with sadness.

    Parent
    Bumper sticker available (none / 0) (#63)
    by itscookin on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 09:02:47 AM EST
    here. In many colors.

    Parent
    Thanks! (none / 0) (#75)
    by rennies on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 05:40:58 PM EST
    Can't wait to order.

    Parent
    Ugh (none / 0) (#64)
    by lilburro on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 09:46:45 AM EST
    "One Big @ss Mistake America" ... that phrase has been widely adopted by tea party folks and right wing wingnuts.  If you think you're too liberal for Obama please don't use that slogan.  Trust me it's a wingnut thing.

    Parent
    I don't intend to put that kind of (3.50 / 2) (#66)
    by Anne on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 10:02:48 AM EST
    bumper sticker on my car - I knew from the other stickers on the car I saw that the owner was a raging right-winger - but that doesn't mean I don't think Obama was and is one big-ass mistake for the country, and I don't frankly care what kind of movement has adopted the slogan; if the Tea Party's slogan was "The Sun Rises In The East," that wouldn't make it any less true, would it?

    Parent
    That's funny (2.00 / 1) (#67)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 10:26:43 AM EST
    7 words stay in my mind (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by The Addams Family on Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 05:09:27 PM EST
    "a republic, if you can keep it"

    so sad

    Housing Authorities (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by Stellaaa on Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 07:00:30 PM EST
    Yes, folks, the order is in, look at a 20% cut for next years budget.  Go team.  Go Dems.  Go change.  

    President Obama has re-gained (5.00 / 2) (#69)
    by KeysDan on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 10:36:07 AM EST
    his confidence, apparently, pleased with the response to his taking progressives and supporters to the woodshed.  After his Dutch Uncle to shape up and get with the program, he has gone from apologetically announcing the Deal, including likening it to hostage taking to extolling its virtues as he signed the deal into law.  That "odious" and distasteful compromise morphed into perfumed poinsettias and tasty candy canes just in time to celebrate its success along with Christmas.

    It's utterly disgusting. (none / 0) (#76)
    by rennies on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 05:42:04 PM EST
    You are right (none / 0) (#1)
    by kmblue on Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 02:09:09 PM EST
    and it's all kinds of wrong.

    Anyone else expect (none / 0) (#2)
    by jeffinalabama on Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 02:29:12 PM EST
    NASA to be volunteered up by this administration for drastic cuts? Other research entities?

    No, I'm sure it will be the new tankers, Star Wars, and overseas bases, too.

    Clap Louder!

    The telling part (none / 0) (#3)
    by me only on Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 02:29:24 PM EST
    The House and Senate typically spend months on the 12 annual spending bills, but Democrats didn't bring even a single one to the Senate floor this year, an unprecedented collapse of the appropriations process. The House only passed two of the 12 bills and didn't make any of the others 10 public.


    How many have come up on time in previous (none / 0) (#5)
    by jeffinalabama on Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 02:31:41 PM EST
    years? I don't remember it to be many. However, it's not the point, except for this fy, in terms of the carnage to ensue.

    Parent
    Charlie Rangel was busy (none / 0) (#37)
    by jbindc on Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 04:31:27 PM EST
    Not claiming his income and such to hold hearings.

    Parent
    Cheap shot. (5.00 / 2) (#39)
    by Anne on Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 04:43:05 PM EST
    Really cheap.

    But fighting ethics charges is one way to tie up someone's time and distract from what needs to be done.

    Even so, Rangel is not a committee of one, and Nancy Pelosi, if she was concerned about the lack of attention to these spending bills, could have - and should have - had something to say, and the power to do something, about it.


    Parent

    I agree with Anne agree here, (5.00 / 4) (#41)
    by jeffinalabama on Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 04:54:04 PM EST
    these bills usually don't make it in time. And the Democratic witch hunt against Rangel probably was 'encouraged' by the White House. Rangel's a "real" democrat, not one of convenience. As such, he was 'in the way.'
    One could argue the BS charges were designed to derail this budget, and have as much veracity. I don't have inside info.

    I think I know a bit about the "chicago way of politics" though.

    I could also be completely wrong. YMMV.

    Parent

    They've had all year (none / 0) (#44)
    by jbindc on Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 05:02:36 PM EST
    You cannot blame Rangel's ethics hearing, which took place this fall, for the lack of hearings and a bill being brought to the floor at the ned of the year.

    Charlie's been found guilty of ethics violations.  Telling the truth is not "taking a cheap shot."  

    Sorry if the truth offends.

    Parent

    You're the one who brought up Rangel, (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by Anne on Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 05:08:57 PM EST
    and I suspect that all you know is that he was convicted and censured, and little else - like Rangel's side of the story.

    But, whatever.  What's the Senate's excuse?  What's the Democratic leadership's excuse?

    I guess my point was that you could easily take both the House and Senate to task on their collective failure to address appropriations and spending without the cheap shot at Rangel.

    Parent

    Also, Rangel left his leadership (none / 0) (#47)
    by jeffinalabama on Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 05:14:39 PM EST
    position some time ago... which might have something to do with this snail pace, but Rangel wasn't the point man.

    Parent
    He stepped down in March (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by jbindc on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 08:57:35 AM EST
    So, yes, for the last few months, he wouldn't have been in charge. But guess what? We all knew this was coming even before March - these bills don't happen quickly.  He could have also been instrumental in working behind the scenes to push this forward.

    His committee was also put in disarry because of his actions - not being sure what was happening next.

    I find it hilarious to think that if his name had been "Eric Cantor" or such, the reaction around here would have been completely different.

    Parent

    You're right (none / 0) (#62)
    by jbindc on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 09:02:08 AM EST
    The Senate has no excuse, except for the fact that all funding bills start in the House.  Government 101.

    And while I usually enjoy your comments, this was pretty far reaching for you to assume what I do and do not know.  Let's see - first Charlie said, "I didn't do it."  Then, his side of the story was, "I didn't pay close enough attention to what was going on."  Finally, his defense was "Everyone else is doing it and they haven't been punished."

    Parent

    So, why then are Mitch McConnell (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by Anne on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 09:57:08 AM EST
    and the Senate involved in the omnibus spending bill?  Why is McConnell demanding that it be read, in its entirety, before the Senate deals with it?

    Why is there a Senate Appropriations Committee?

    As Democrats, in the majority in both houses of Congress, the leadership had a reaponsibility to work together on a strategy to get the spending bills done, to deal with whatever was happening with Rangel, and to - novel concept - do their damn jobs.

    And, for what it's worth, March - when Rangel stepped down - was nine months ago, not "a few" months ago.  And it still doesn't explain why the sorry-ass leadership let this whole spending issue languish to the point where they are no longer in the driver's seat on spending, and apparently have no idea at all how to deal with the GOP.

    Forget Charlie Rangel.  His problems were what they were, and he and the leadership knew this was coming, and they failed to deal with it.  Just like they have failed, over and over, to take advantage of their majority while they had it, to get things done.

    I pretty much regard the decision to bring ethics charges against members of Congress of either party, by the way, in much the same way I regard referees calling holding penalties in football games: they could probably call it on every play of the game, but for whatever reason, choose to throw the flag at strategic points that can and do affect the outcome of games.  Am I happier when the calls go against the team I'm not rooting for?  Of course.  

    Whatever Rangel did or didn't do, or to what degree he did it, or for how long, those were his decisions and the consequences were not in his control; that still does not give the leadership any kind of a pass for dropping the ball: that's what the real problem is, not what Rangel did or didn't do.

    Parent

    Um (none / 0) (#68)
    by jbindc on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 10:34:33 AM EST
    Rangel was part of "the leadership".

    The Senate Appropriations Committee also meets and hammers out proposed bills. But the votes still have to start in the house.  The President also submits a budget.

    Here's a good primer.

    And the omnibus bill is not going to be read on the floor, as the vote was pushed until next year - they passed a continuing resolution. (It was Jim DeMint's idea and he who originally pushed for the reading of the bill). But of course, they also weren't really serious about reading the bill. - it was all (surprise!) a politcal maneuver.

    At one point yesterday, according to a Senate Republican leadership aide, Democrats were telling reporters to "watch the floor" for action on the omnibus bill. GOP critics had pushed for all 1,924 pages of the legislation to read aloud by Senate clerks -- which would have taken an estimated 50 hours -- but Democrats were planning to block this maneuver using a procedural trick. "The bill wasn't going to be read," says the Republican aide. "We were going to raise holy hell about it."

    In the end, of course, Mitch McConnell informed Harry Reid that Democrats didn't have the votes, and the bill-reading exercise was no longer necessary. Is it true that nine Senate Republicans were initially open to supporting the omnibus, as Reid indicated? "That seems a little high," says the GOP leadership staffer. "But there were so many undecideds that it's kind of hard to tell."



    Parent
    When Rangel stepped down, (none / 0) (#70)
    by Anne on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 11:11:35 AM EST
    Pelosi, et al, should have stepped up.

    I am well aware of the House's appropriations responsibility - just as I am aware that, while I was responding to the quoted material in BTD's post, the push to have the onmibus bill read failed - my point - which I am getting really tired of making - is that Democratic leadership in BOTH houses of Congress should have been working TOGETHER on a strategy to get their ducks in a row on spending and appropriations, and as near as I can tell, they failed - and quite miserably - to do so.

    For the last time, using Charlie Rangel as an excuse for why nothing has gotten done on spending bills lets the rest of the Democratic caucus off the hook - and I can see no reason why such an effort should be made.

    Parent

    It's not mutually exclusive (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by jbindc on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 11:15:47 AM EST
    He's not solely to blame - I never said that.  But he does bear some of the blame.

    But you want to excuse him and the turmoil he caused because you like him.  As I said, I would bet all the money I have right now that you would not be as forgiving if he was a powerful Republican who was guilty of multiple ethics violations, and that caused legislation that you supported to somehow back up.

    They are all responsible.

    Parent

    You brought Rangel into it, in (none / 0) (#73)
    by Anne on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 03:14:47 PM EST
    your comment at #44:

    Charlie Rangel was busy (none / 0) (#37)
    by jbindc on Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 05:31:27 PM EDT

    Not claiming his income and such to hold hearings.

    You blamed him - and you were the only one who blamed him.

    If you read Jeff's comment, you'd know that it was Democrats that brought those ethics charges, not Republicans, and one has to wonder why that is; as Jeff wonders, was it done to get Rangel out of the way?

    Do I "like" Rangel?  I think he's one of a dwindling group of traditional Democrats, and based on the little I know about his situation, I haven't ruled out the ethics charges as an attempt to further weaken the traditional Democratic influence in the House.

    I'm not excusing him at all; what I am doing is putting the blame for the lack of attention to fiscal matters where it belongs: on the Democratic caucus and leadership - which includes Rangel.

    Lastly, there is little chance that Republicans would ever eat their own and jeopardize their agenda by subjecting their Charlie Rangel-equivalent to ethics charges, and there is even less chance that Republicans in charge would even have legislation I supported in the pipleline.  If there was trouble in the GOP, I suspect the only legislation that would get backed-up would be legislation that deserved to be - and yes, I would be just fine - from a strategic standpoint - with bad legislation never getting a vote.

    Parent

    Thanks for stating the obvious (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by jbindc on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 03:19:34 PM EST
    I know it was Dems that brought the charges - despite Charlie's assertion that a) it was a political witch hunt and then b) it was a racial witch hunt.  Why would Dems want him out of the way?  He's powerful and popular, unless of course they love having wild accusations thrown at them -I guess that could be it.

    And thanks for quoting me - proving that nowhere did I say it was only Charlie Rangel's fault.

    Let's play again soon!

    Parent

    And you, apparently, ignore the obvious: (none / 0) (#78)
    by shoephone on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 07:59:26 PM EST
    which is that Rangel doesn't chair the House Budget Committee -- John Spratt does. He also doesn't chair the House Appropriations Committee -- that's David Obey's job. Ways & Means Committee wasn't pulled apart by Rangel's situation; yes, it was a distraction, but they named an interim chairman and got on with their work. However, the members certainly were extra busy scrambling to deal with Obama's tax cuts for the rich (which O. lied about repeatedly), estate tax giveaways (egregious at the least), and continuation of unemployment insurance benefits (a no-brainer for Democratic principles). Those are all W&M issues. The budget and spending bills don't start in W&M. I make it my business to know about W&M because my representative sits on that committee.

    Cannot for the life of me figure out why Charlie Rangel's name was pushed to the fore in a discussion of budget and spending.

    Parent

    The Greek (none / 0) (#51)
    by Stellaaa on Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 06:24:48 PM EST
    The Greek is wrong.  

    It's ok (none / 0) (#55)
    by Stellaaa on Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 07:01:04 PM EST
    grammatically it's wrong.  

    Parent
    Babelfish (none / 0) (#58)
    by Zorba on Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 07:36:05 PM EST
    translates literally, word-for-word.  It's not how Greeks actually talk. Stellaaa is right.  This is true for other languages as well (at least the ones I know something about).  English grammar does not fit the grammar of other languages, and vice versa.

    Parent
    Babelfish (none / 0) (#59)
    by The Addams Family on Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 11:27:58 PM EST
    is the TextAloud of translation

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    But, I love it (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by Stellaaa on Fri Dec 17, 2010 at 11:54:23 PM EST
    I do use it for languages I know sort of, helps with getting the google search in that language.  Man, is that fun.  Particularly for cooking.  

    Use it and find You-tube videos of people from around the world cooking their food.  You can find old men and women teaching you techniques that the Food channel has no clue.  

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    I use it, too (none / 0) (#72)
    by Zorba on Sat Dec 18, 2010 at 12:15:57 PM EST
    For things like that.  The grammar is cock-eyed, but you can get the gist of things from Babelfish.  In fact, when I want to send an email containing Greek text, rather than using the Greek font in Word (and copying and pasting), I use Babelfish, but I phrase it in English so that it comes out correctly in Greek- it's easier than using Word.  (It may be incorrect grammar in English, but it will work in the subsequent Greek translation.)   ;-)

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