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Monday Afternoon Open Thread

College football bowl season has started and I have some selections. I'll be doing New Years Day bowl selections on, um, New Years Day. Here are this week's (through Sunday) pre-New Years Day Bowl picks:

Louisville (-2) over S. Miss in the St. Petersburg Bowl (yes, we can't have a college football playoff because the St. Petersburg Bowl MUST be saved).

Boise St. (-17) (5 units) over Utah in the Las Vegas Bowl (every city must HAVE a bowl!), this is my best bet of the pre-New Years Day bowls because (1) Boise has a great team and (2) they are mightily po'd over blowing their season at Nevada AND (3) po'd that Utah has bolted the Mountain West for the Pac 10 (BYU bolted to be the Mormon version of Notre Dame without the national interest and TCU bolted to join the Big East . . . the Big East? Really?) just when adding Boise State would have made the Mountain West an AQ conference for BCC purposes.

Navy (+5) over hometown San Diego State in the Poinsetta Bowl (why not the San Diego Bowl you ask? Good question).

Hawaii (-10) (3 units) over Tulsa in the, yep, Hawaii Bowl (how is Hawaii going to lose the Hawaii Bowl?).

And, finally, the Granddaddy of all the pre-New Years Day bowls, the Little Caesars Pizza Bowl, in Detroit, where I pick the mighty Florida International University Golden Panthers (Even) over the Toledo Rockets.

Yep, gotta save the bowl system. No playoffs for you! college football. Pizza! Pizza!

Open Thread.

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    kdog - I'm slowly coming around (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by jbindc on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 02:41:30 PM EST
    Top Secret America

    Nine years after the terrorist attacks of 2001, the United States is assembling a vast domestic intelligence apparatus to collect information about Americans, using the FBI, local police, state homeland security offices and military criminal investigators.

    The system, by far the largest and most technologically sophisticated in the nation's history, collects, stores and analyzes information about thousands of U.S. citizens and residents, many of whom have not been accused of any wrongdoing.

    The government's goal is to have every state and local law enforcement agency in the country feed information to Washington to buttress the work of the FBI, which is in charge of terrorism investigations in the United States.

    Other democracies - Britain and Israel, to name two - are well acquainted with such domestic security measures. But for the United States, the sum of these new activities represents a new level of governmental scrutiny.

    This localized intelligence apparatus is part of a larger Top Secret America created since the attacks. In July, The Washington Post described an alternative geography of the United States, one that has grown so large, unwieldy and secretive that no one knows how much money it costs, how many people it employs or how many programs exist within it.

    Today's story, along with related material on The Post's Web site, examines how Top Secret America plays out at the local level. It describes a web of 4,058 federal, state and local organizations, each with its own counterterrorism responsibilities and jurisdictions. At least 935 of these organizations have been created since the 2001 attacks or became involved in counterterrorism for the first time after 9/11.

    Although I don't have a problem with some of the things mentioned that make law enforcement more efficient, it does give me pause on some of the other things mentioned here.

    If it give jbindc pause... (5.00 / 6) (#18)
    by kdog on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 03:04:13 PM EST
    it gives me cold sweats:)

    4,058 agencies? Thats alotta welfare queening, tyranny edition.  I know real jobs are hard to come by, but thats ridiculous.

    Parent

    Maybe that is the part of the government they (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by ruffian on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 03:17:12 PM EST
    will talk about shrinking in January! I doubt it, but a girl can dream.

    Parent
    Seriously... (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by kdog on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 03:43:03 PM EST
    Obama mentioned something about a budget scalpel during the campaign...anybody seen this mysterious surgical instrument? It is desperately needed in various sectors of the tyranny budget!

    Parent
    It's busy (none / 0) (#125)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 10:57:28 PM EST
    with Social Security.

    Parent
    jbindc, the first rule of the fight club... (none / 0) (#27)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 03:28:08 PM EST
    remember.

    Parent
    And I wish I meant (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 03:29:05 PM EST
    the above as a joke.

    Parent
    for oculus (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 03:18:54 PM EST
    Jussi Bjorling singing O Holy Night

    hey wait (5.00 / 2) (#46)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 04:14:22 PM EST
    oculus gets this and I get gay bob?

    Parent
    Somehow oculus has engineered a life (5.00 / 2) (#51)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 04:18:58 PM EST
    where she is only exposed to the best it has to offer :)

    Parent
    This is true... (5.00 / 3) (#64)
    by kdog on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 04:45:19 PM EST
    "exposed to the best"...she did meet yours truly last week.

    Just kidding...but seriously:)

    Parent

    I was mindful of that too (none / 0) (#66)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 04:48:04 PM EST
    somehow she engineers a vacation and is FULLY entertained 24/7 by all that it has to offer, not one moment wasted...nothing wanted.

    Parent
    She is a wonder... (5.00 / 2) (#70)
    by kdog on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 04:58:40 PM EST
    I sensed a strong lust for life across from my pint...just as it oozes from the comments.

    Parent
    for the non-buddhists (5.00 / 2) (#77)
    by CST on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 05:07:24 PM EST
    in the crowd... we've only got one life to live.

    Might as well make the most of it.

    Parent

    The goal as a Buddhist is to be so good (none / 0) (#151)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Dec 22, 2010 at 03:45:16 PM EST
    that you only get one life to live, because when you are here....you will experience suffering

    Parent
    Geez, I like Bob Wills, (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 04:24:49 PM EST
    and I thought oculus was our opera maven... reverse 'em, and give oculus gay bob then.

    I'll never buy presents for y'all again...I'll have my assistant do it (Sniff).

    Wait... I don't have an assistant.

    Capt, at least you didn't get this one tho it's a personal favorite...

    Parent

    And I was saving that one for (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 04:28:33 PM EST
    Mr. MT...

    Parent
    He does love Disney (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 04:43:50 PM EST
    and the Disney castle.  He's on his way home, I'll give it to him when he gets here.

    Parent
    Mt. please remind him I'm not (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 04:52:23 PM EST
    calling HIM "mickey mouse."

    Parent
    I just saw that something new (none / 0) (#58)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 04:29:11 PM EST
    that is coming to the Sundance Channel and it's called 'Girls who Like Boys who Like Boys'....Oy :)  Because having a headache once a month isn't enough, we must challenge ourselves not to cry and eat quarts of ice cream alone in bed because of the wafflers :)

    Parent
    And for kdog... (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 03:22:00 PM EST
    Bob Wills: Christmas on the Range  

    For all others here,too.

    Why thank you sir.... (none / 0) (#68)
    by kdog on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 04:56:15 PM EST
    "At night I sit alone by the fireside...", that line hit home, with all I want for Christmas a few thousand miles away.

    And for you, one of my favorite Christmas songs of all time...almost pirate-esque, and more poignant than ever, like alotta Kinks tunes. Listened to Muswell Hillbillies in its entirety yesterday, and it eaaily coulda been written yesterday.

    Withour further adieu...Father Christmas

    And for ruffian, fellow member in the Keith Richards Appreciation Society...how 'bout some
    Run Run Rudolph!  Santa said turn it up!!!

    Parent

    She'll wait. Thank goodness for (none / 0) (#74)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 05:02:08 PM EST
    patient ladies.

    BTW, we have a sailor who will need to be the first Dread Pirate Roberts. I don't know squat about sailing... Casey OR can sail anything we can repo! Or Borrow, YMMV...

    Parent

    Saw that... (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by kdog on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 05:08:22 PM EST
    and thought the same thing...we shall take the sailing orders from the salty Capt. Casey!

    Once I finish the paperwork on my coarse rebuttal to my state income tax audit, I'll get right on draftng the repo paperwork...now where do I leave that notary stamp from my notary public days? :)

    Std disclaimer for any of the 4,058 agencies who may be monitoring this convo, we're only kidding!

    Parent

    Aye, laddies. (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by caseyOR on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 05:46:19 PM EST
    A solid, seaworthy vessel, not too fancy. That is all we require. Well, one with a powerful engine for any quick getaways that might be needed. I'm tearing my place apart trying to find my old sextant. I know it's here somewhere.

    How are you boys at knot tying? Either of you a former Boy Scout? I must say, I never thought my years as both a camper and a camp counselor would ever be put to such good use.

    "tis just a bit of boat joking going on, Mr. NSA. Nothing to se here. Or hear here, for that matter.

    Parent

    Captain Casey... (none / 0) (#102)
    by kdog on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 06:07:05 PM EST
    I'll be lucky if I ain't stuck working in the galley...I still tie my shoes using the bunny ear method.  

    Though I am willing to learn, and though I may be skinny I'm fairly strong...with a pirate soul if not a pirate's skills.

    Parent

    Not to worry, kdog, if you (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by caseyOR on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 06:29:19 PM EST
    can tie your shoes (even using the bunny ear method) you can learn to tie anything.

    Your strong heart and your pirate's soul will invaluable to us. You can be taught the needed pirate skills. Not to worry.

    By the way, don't dismiss the value of a deft touch in the galley. An army isn't the only thing that advances in some way on its stomach.

    Now I am off in search of charts for the seven seas. Okay if we mostly prowl the warmer waters? Yeah, I live in the Pacific Northwest, so I can slap on the cold weather rain gear, but I'd rather not if I don't have to. What say ye, mateys?

    Parent

    Aye Aye Ma'am... (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by kdog on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 06:47:08 PM EST
    warm waters preferred by this budding seaman, for sure.

    And if we can drop anchor in a port on the Riviera Nayarit, I know the perfect recruit to be our on board M.D.

    Parent

    A good medic is always a good addition (none / 0) (#112)
    by caseyOR on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 06:50:56 PM EST
    to any crew. Recruit away, kdog.

    Parent
    Ye be the Pirate king of Madagascar, (none / 0) (#107)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 06:34:23 PM EST
    or whatever sea y care t'choose, cap'm!

    Parent
    i think, given that I am of the female (none / 0) (#109)
    by caseyOR on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 06:37:10 PM EST
    gender, perhaps Pirate Queen would be more appropriate.

    Warm waters it is for us, laddies.

    Parent

    I was in charge of the rifle range... (none / 0) (#105)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 06:24:00 PM EST
    so... here's The Pirate Song. Season's greetings, Casey!  Arrrrr!

    Parent
    Thanks for the tune, jeff. (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by caseyOR on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 06:35:19 PM EST
    Feliz Navidad to you and yours.

    Parent
    Yeah, there's no dread pirate casey (none / 0) (#81)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 05:12:51 PM EST
    or dread pirate kdog...

    it's a movie...

    Parent

    Come to think of it... (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by kdog on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 05:22:31 PM EST
    saying we're joking probably doesn't cut it, I think there is a sub-paragraph in the Patriot Act criminalizing it.

    Be on alert for FBI undercovers offering use of a yacht the next few months bro...the chains won't be far behind:)

    Parent

    Yaght? is that a boat? (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 05:27:57 PM EST
    I don't know nothin' about any boat...

    Just practicing.

    Parent

    Thank you for The Kinks. (none / 0) (#76)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 05:07:08 PM EST
    Feliz Navidad, amigo.

    Parent
    Aw, thank you so much! (none / 0) (#137)
    by ruffian on Tue Dec 21, 2010 at 09:02:17 AM EST
    That was great - Keef!!!!

    I love the Kinks too. That is one of my favorite rock n' roll christmas songs.

    For all of you The Chieftains and Jackson Browne The Rebel Jesus

    Have a great week everyone!

    Parent

    Hwy Capt Howdy: (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 03:24:41 PM EST
    hooray hooray (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 04:06:47 PM EST
    that guy sure sounds gay.

    Parent
    Meh. Deep voices then. (none / 0) (#59)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 04:31:52 PM EST
    Harvard (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by CST on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 03:37:51 PM EST
    welcomes ROTC back to campus, citing repeal of DADT.

    Here is a link to the statement.

    Vehs mir! Velkh a fantastish fidlen shpiler. (5.00 / 2) (#32)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 03:44:03 PM EST
    Rudolph arayn Klezmer stil vel makhn`du shmeykhl!

    Rudolf

    Hope my Yiddish suffices.

    happy holydays (5.00 / 2) (#47)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 04:16:01 PM EST
    A new Gallup poll, released Dec. 17, reveals that 40 percent of Americans still believe that humans were created by God within the last 10,000 years. This number is slightly down from a previous high of 47 percent in 1993 and 1999.

    I wish it was a joke

    That would mean (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by Zorba on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 04:18:21 PM EST
    that 40% of Americans are total idiots.  Very sad.

    Parent
    Eugenics is such an ugly word... (none / 0) (#54)
    by Mr Natural on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 04:24:32 PM EST
    Mindless reproduction is such an ugly phrase...

    Parent
    There is something going on down here (none / 0) (#72)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 04:59:57 PM EST
    with children that I've never seen before.  When I was in kindergarten that Santa lie started coming out of the bag, but I didn't really want to believe it and embrace the truth until first grade.  Last year Joshua was in fourth grade and was having verbal wars with his classmates about the fact that today's Santa is your parents.  He got in the car one afternoon completely incensed by the group neurosis of half his class and I told him that the more he worried about it and fought with them about it the worse it would become.  This year they are in fifth grade and the majority of his class insists that The Elf on the Shelf is real and he was fighting with his whole class about the fact that it is make believe too.  I have never been around this sort of child group think.  We spent most of our time on the playground talking about what a bunch of liars the big people were and competing to shoot the biggest holes in the B.S.

    Parent
    Fifth grade !?!? (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by Yman on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 07:55:33 PM EST
    ... and they actually believe the Elf-on-a-shelf is really monitoring their behavior for Santa?!?

    I believe in prolonging childhood innocence as much as the next guy, but if it was my child, at some point I'd start to get a little concerned.

    Parent

    What????? (none / 0) (#75)
    by Zorba on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 05:04:33 PM EST
    Okay, this is the parents' fault for feeding their kids BS way past the expiration date of that BS.  Do these fifth graders still believe in the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny, too?  

    Parent
    It's a South Religion thing... (none / 0) (#79)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 05:11:08 PM EST
    Santa and the Dinausaurs made it to the Manger about 45 minutes after the birth. Who in the heck do you think the wise guys were? Corleones?

    Uhhhh, don't answer that.

    Parent

    I think it is somehow interconnected (5.00 / 0) (#83)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 05:14:52 PM EST
    with the Jesusy Churchy thing, but it is really bizarre when you aren't from the bible belt and you haven't encouraged your children to believe total B.S. until the day they die.

    Parent
    Thank Dawg for (none / 0) (#85)
    by nycstray on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 05:17:32 PM EST
    blue states!!  {grin}

    Parent
    I find (none / 0) (#118)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 07:27:49 PM EST
    it completely opposite. That there are people here who DO NOT want their children to believe in Santa because it takes away from Jesus.

    Parent
    The particular neighborhood that we live (none / 0) (#152)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Dec 23, 2010 at 08:55:21 AM EST
    in wants both.  But I know of what you speak and it is out there in pockets too.

    Parent
    What you say... (none / 0) (#86)
    by kdog on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 05:17:57 PM EST
    about my momma? :)

    She was practically in tears when she broke the Santa news to me in 5th grade, pops made her do it, I didn't have the heart to tell her I knew already.

    And she's in a tizzy now over what her 3rd grade grandaughter said the kids on the school bus are saying about Santa...she takes that sh*t serious, and god bless her for it.

    I think this is one tall tale that does more good than harm...unlike the tall tales the DARE cops peddle to the kiddies.

    Parent

    Mr. Zorba (5.00 / 2) (#93)
    by Zorba on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 05:33:52 PM EST
    (who, like me, is in his early 60's) ran into an old elementary school acquaintance way back when we were in college.  The acquaintance said "Oh, I remember you.  You were the kid who read Pogo and didn't believe in Santa Claus."  That would pretty much still describe Mr. Z.  ;-)

    Parent
    Then again... (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by kdog on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 06:02:25 PM EST
    that lucky family you referenced earlier has evidence to contradict the wise Mr. Z regarding the existence of the one they call Santa Claus.

    He may not be a mortal man, but he does exist as an idea, a positive action...and he appears whenever good is done for goodness sake.  So in a sense, Santa Claus is very real...and I sure as hell wanna believe.

    And now I'm strangely in the mood to watch "A Miracle on 34th Street"...:)

     

    Parent

    Bless you, Dog (none / 0) (#101)
    by Zorba on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 06:05:27 PM EST
    May you have peace, and may the spirit of the season fill your heart with joy.  {{hugs}}

    Parent
    Right back at ya... (none / 0) (#120)
    by kdog on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 07:36:34 PM EST
    Listen to me...I've got a religous fervor for this Santa character:)

    Another come to think of it...his m.o. is way cooler than that God character the big 3 peddle.  When you're bad the worst thing Santa does is give ya some coal, try harder next year kid...he believes in positive reinforcement, redemption, and being jolly and loved.  And he loves his pipe, cookies, and whole milk.

    This God guy, otoh, sentences you to firey eternal damnation without the possibility of parole when you sin...he's a spiteful, hardheaded, violent authoritarian who wants to be feared.  Santa is way way cooler:)

    Parent

    Joshua asked me the other day what made me (none / 0) (#153)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Dec 23, 2010 at 09:14:23 AM EST
    decide that I wasn't a Christian.  I was raised to be one, and even attended a Christian school at one point in my life.  When I was very little I used to worry a lot about starving kids in Africa, and my mom was trying out a new Baptist church.  In Sunday school one Sunday they told us that the only way to not go to hell was to accept Jesus as our personal savior.  I asked for better clarification here because I was thinking about all those kids in Africa that didn't speak English yet and didn't have a church yet or even anyone to tell them about this Jesus guy, was it really true that the only way you could go to heaven was to do this accepting of Jesus thing?  Yes, this was absolute....no accepting of the Jesus person and it is a firey hell for you and that is that.  I was crushed.  I worried about it endlessly and even cried about it some, how unfair and horrible for them, and thank God I was born so lucky.  Then came my adolescence and all that that entailed for this girl :)  By the time I was 23 I came to grasp that the reward for being a good Christian was to then spend an eternity with a total effing a$$hole...forever.  Who wants that?  Who signs up for an eternity of abuse, and an eternity of knowing of what little value you actually hold for this God thingy who longs daily...even hourly...to squash you like the bug you are to him?  Can the possibility of hell be all that bad?

    Parent
    But you knew the truth (none / 0) (#88)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 05:20:35 PM EST
    The kids down here seem to be the only ones who don't know the truth.

    Parent
    Sounds like the flipside problem... (none / 0) (#113)
    by kdog on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 06:51:42 PM EST
    of this neck of the woods....where the believers past 1st-2nd grade get ridiculed.

    I think the answer lies somewhere in live and let live...believe and tolerate differing beliefs.  Easier said than done....for adults or kids.

    Parent

    The joy and magic of Christmas (5.00 / 0) (#130)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Dec 21, 2010 at 02:21:24 AM EST
    is not wedded singularly to a belief in Santa or myths beyond what is logical for a human being, but a belief that Santa lives within us all.  That is the truth that will make Christmas a joy, a miracle, and a celebration for our whole lives no matter where or how we find ourselves.  It is what I teach my children kdog.  It is what my family taught me.  There is a time for everything under the sun, and the time for giving simply for the sake of giving is another exercise needed and practiced when fully celebrating life itself.

    Parent
    By 2nd grade I knew the truth of (none / 0) (#114)
    by caseyOR on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 06:59:19 PM EST
    the matter, but I kept my mouth shut because my younger siblings and cousins.. Couldn't spoil the Santa joy for them, now could I? I kept up the pretense until I was in high school, when the last of the family's young'uns figured it out.

    That said, man, 2nd grade was the end of Santa belief for everyone I knew. Ditto for the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy. What is the deal with these 5th graders?

    Parent

    I think you answered your own question... (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by kdog on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 07:10:06 PM EST
    why spoil the joy of it so soon?

    The kids have all their lives to know harsh reality...I don't see the harm in letting the Santa thing run a little long...though I guess I might worry about a kid who doesn't figure it out for themselves by 5th grade.  

    Also at play...the parents enjoy the myth as much as the kids and don't wanna spoil it for themselves either...especially with people having less children on average.  For 1 child families, you're only giving yourself 4 years of the magic that is Santa...my moms got to enjoy it for a long time, with my oldest sibling 13 years older than my youngest.

    Parent

    Your moms had a good long (none / 0) (#117)
    by caseyOR on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 07:24:33 PM EST
    run of Santa joy. And now, with the grandkids, she gets to live the revival of Santa joy.

    My family is currently living through a drought of Santa believers. All the nephews and cousins' kids are past the believing. So, now we are waiting for the next generation to be born and to believe.

    Parent

    Kids (none / 0) (#119)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 07:29:44 PM EST
    really make Christmas fun don't they? When my husband and I were dinks, Christmas really, really seemed like such a chore.

    Parent
    So true... (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by kdog on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 07:41:37 PM EST
    without the kids and the looks on their faces, Christmas would just be another scam.

    It still is a scam in many respects, or at least what we've made of it as a culture...but scam me all day long if it comes with the glow of a child's pure joy.

    Parent

    We befriended a family here (none / 0) (#87)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 05:19:04 PM EST
    that is Buddhist in beliefs too, and the three boys have decided to just tell all their classmates that they are Christian to make life easier because they get asked.  Everyone is asked all the time. I'm glad that Joshua has friends that have encouraged him to just tell them what they want to hear and move along, otherwise it is a fight all the time.

    Parent
    Well, I find the (none / 0) (#115)
    by brodie on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 06:59:24 PM EST
    long-ago DNA manipulation of existing primates by ancient astronauts to be an intriguing idea.  Gallup probably didn't ask about that one though.

    Parent
    My tribute to Jeralyn this Holiday Season: (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 05:25:03 PM EST
    She's   here.

    Thanks for being our voice beyond the wilderness, and thanks for defending us. I hope your holidays are spectacular, Jeralyn, and thanks again for the privilege of using your blog.

    I'm sure (none / 0) (#92)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 05:30:45 PM EST
    I could find much more flattering, much more lawyer-esque, and certainly much more feminine representations.

    I hope the aforelinked is taken as a compliment... meant as one.

    Season's greetings!

    Parent

    This thread should have had a spoiler alert. (5.00 / 3) (#122)
    by itscookin on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 07:42:39 PM EST
    Geesch. No such thing as Santa Claus? Who's been leaving me all those presents for the last 60 years? I don't think I can handle this.

    On Christmas Day, I'll feel a bit lonely (5.00 / 1) (#124)
    by the capstan on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 08:51:43 PM EST
    but I can recall many a Christmas where 'Bah, Humbug' was my motto.  Picking up 'wish book' gifts, making pies, putting up the tree, wrapping presents at 4 am, getting up early to start the turkey--'Bah, Humbug' indeed.  No longer are 4 kids tearing into boxes and 16 or so adults wielding knives and forks.  Santa recalled in solitude!  It was wonderful and tiring and I don't miss it.  The children's joyful smiles will still  light my day--and I won't be so tired I ache.  Santa lives!

    It's a VERY hard occasion (none / 0) (#129)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 11:20:19 PM EST
    to find a reasonable balance for.

    Parent
    Two football-related tidbits. (1) Michigan (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by oculus on Tue Dec 21, 2010 at 02:32:49 AM EST
    is playing in the Gator Bowl (I just figured this out), and (2) saw a guy sitting in airport in San Diego with a blue shirt emblazened with "HAIL" (in maize, natch).  Terrific.

    If you are quoting Jerri Blank (none / 0) (#1)
    by lilburro on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 02:01:58 PM EST
    you left out a Pizza!.

    What are your thoughts on (none / 0) (#2)
    by CST on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 02:14:42 PM EST
    the Cliff Lee signing?

    :D

    As a Sox fan (5.00 / 0) (#134)
    by BobTinKY on Tue Dec 21, 2010 at 08:26:21 AM EST
    it was a thing of true beauty.  I am looking forward to watching the Sox battle against him next October.

    Parent
    Yanks could have used him (none / 0) (#4)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 02:33:50 PM EST
    The Badgers will take the (none / 0) (#3)
    by masslib on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 02:32:17 PM EST
    Rose Bowl, natch.

    Monday Night Football (none / 0) (#5)
    by eric on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 02:34:30 PM EST
    from Minneapolis is going to be fun tonight  It's snowing like crazy here and they are playing in the University of Minnesota stadium, which they just spent the past week shoveling out.

    Plus, its cold, very cold.

    Bout time... (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by kdog on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 02:58:08 PM EST
    you guys started playing the game the right way again up in Minny...Bud Grant and the football gods will be smiling:)

    Parent
    The diehards (none / 0) (#6)
    by jbindc on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 02:34:57 PM EST
    will be there in force.

    Parent
    Looking forward to it (none / 0) (#8)
    by nycstray on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 02:40:32 PM EST
    I remember as a (none / 0) (#12)
    by brodie on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 02:48:30 PM EST
    youngster being very entertained watching the players try to play football in blizzard conditions with serious snow on the ground back in the days of Municipal Stadium and the Vikings of dour Bud Grant and Scramblin' Fran Tarkenton and the Purple People Eater defense.

    Colorful and talented teams back then, good enough often enough to be playing all their playoff games at home -- which usually meant, given the inclement weather, that they were automatically on their way to the SB.

    Parent

    That's how I got hooked on (none / 0) (#40)
    by nycstray on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 04:03:15 PM EST
    football as a kid. Some of those old games were great. Mud bowls were fun as heck also :)

    Parent
    Yep, mud, (none / 0) (#52)
    by brodie on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 04:22:12 PM EST
    some rain, cold temps and a little wind off the lake -- back then, the announcers would always proclaim it was Perfect Football Weather.

    The Fog Bowl in Philly in the 90s was also a classic.  So thick, they couldn't throw the long pass.

    My favorite game is still the famous Ice Bowl at Lambert Field in the 60s.  Wind chill I think somewhere around -30º.  Lombardi telling Starr on the last play, "OK, go ahead and run it, and let's get the hell out of here!"

    Parent

    An uncle of a friend was at the Ice Bowl (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by Towanda on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 11:12:53 PM EST
    and enjoyed telling the story for years of the guy a row away who had too much beer and finally just had to do something about it, but he didn't want to miss a play by heading all the way to the restroom.  So he went behind the stands and . . . well, the guy did miss the rest of the game.  He had to be taken on a stretcher to the local ER to have a portion of his anatomy tenderly detached from the zipper of his trousers to which the portion of the anatomy had frozen in midstream, as it were.

    How cold was it?  It was that cold that day.

    Parent

    Since you bring up the Ice Bowl, (none / 0) (#60)
    by MKS on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 04:36:08 PM EST
    what about the Hail Mary--that was in Minnesota on a cold field.

    Parent
    Before Starr's QB sneak, (none / 0) (#65)
    by MKS on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 04:45:30 PM EST
    it was the dink and dunk passes to backs that finally got the Pack in scoring position and broke Dallas's back....Until then, Doomesday prevented any offense.

    And those backs were journeymen Donny Anderson and Chuck Mercein--gone were the immortal Jim Taylor and Paul Horning.

    Dallas should have won that game....

    I watched the game live with my dad....

    Parent

    Hey, I watched it live (none / 0) (#110)
    by brodie on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 06:46:53 PM EST
    too -- or what they call today "in real time".

    The Boys probably had an edge in overall talent, but the Pack had the edge in coaching and the rest.  And it was on display on that final drive -- the Pack executing in the clutch, driving the ball down field under difficult conditions, a team conditioned by Lombardi physically and mentally to play the entire game and w/o making errors.  

    For them, like the Pats of today, it was a matter of plugging in various no-name offensive players around a quality QB and solid line, because the system was sound and simple and endlessly practiced.

    Meanwhile it looked like the Boys went into what would later be called the Prevent Defense.  Even as a youngster I recall shouting --They're going to prevent themselves from winning!

    Parent

    Bud Grant. What a face, (none / 0) (#41)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 04:04:25 PM EST
    and my favorite pro quarterback, Joe Kapp. Let's hit somebody!

    Memorial Stadium. That was football.

    Parent

    Right, Joe Kapp (none / 0) (#53)
    by brodie on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 04:24:28 PM EST
    of the famous "wounded duck" school of tossing the pigskin.  Some how it got there, and they caught it.

    Parent
    he loved jumping up and kicking. (none / 0) (#56)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 04:26:54 PM EST
    And he had an arm. It hung on the side, and occasionally he 'threw' a pass...

    That was football.

    Parent

    Perfect for a Vikings-Bears classic! (none / 0) (#13)
    by ruffian on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 02:51:51 PM EST
    Looking forward to it!

    Parent
    I have to laugh at the punter (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by Anne on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 02:58:00 PM EST
    whining about the field conditions - the guy who steps on the field maybe three or four times a game - or fewer if the game is going well - never gets tackled and spends most of the game with cold-weather gear on sitting over by the heaters...

    Waaaaaaah....it's too cold...and the ground's too hard....

    Spoiled, much?

    Parent

    Ha! With all the turnovers there will be little (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by ruffian on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 03:14:26 PM EST
    punting anyway - he can keep warm by his heater!

    Parent
    what's the over/under on concussions? (none / 0) (#19)
    by Dadler on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 03:06:43 PM EST
    i'll take some of that action. i heard Michael Strayhan talking this morning on the radio, and he said in effect "It's all about the money. Money, money, money. It's insane, the field, the weather, it's the kind of cold where local authorities tell you to bring your livestock and pets inside, but NFL players, get out there and entertain people! It's just crazy."

    Parent
    Oh please... (none / 0) (#33)
    by kdog on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 03:50:45 PM EST
    its the way the game is meant to be played in December, freezing your arse off...maybe basketball is more your speed Strahan...have you forgotten the brutal Meadowlands winds already?  

    Granted, it ain't Minny...but they're still doing it in Green Bay, and they've won titles in Green Bay.  Minny hasn't been to the show since they moved indoors like a buncha wimps...no coincidence, thats the football gods at work:)

    Parent

    i shoulda said... (none / 0) (#35)
    by Dadler on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 03:53:26 PM EST
    ...he was being a tad sarcastic, tongue in cheek, joking, but with the obvious big pebble of truth. He wasn't outraged or anything, and he even talked about playing in 30 below one time.  

    Parent
    paleeze... (none / 0) (#103)
    by DFLer on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 06:19:21 PM EST
    the so-called "frozen tundra" of Lambeau has a heating system imbedded under the field of play and it is NOT a frozen surface. Not so at U of MN stadium by the way.

    Parent
    holy cow..now Farve is going to start! (none / 0) (#104)
    by DFLer on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 06:21:41 PM EST
    but Peterson is out, 'cause that bonehead T-Jack slammed a knee into Adrian's thigh on a hand-off last game.

    Parent
    Well here is one happy Bears fan this morning! (none / 0) (#138)
    by ruffian on Tue Dec 21, 2010 at 09:10:49 AM EST
    Congrats to Devin Hester on his NFL record. Too bad Favre had to steal the spotlight, the old drama queen.

    Hey, you don't expect a Bears fan to say anything nice about BF! That would be like me giving Mitch McConnell kudos.

    Parent

    Hard to believe (none / 0) (#140)
    by CoralGables on Tue Dec 21, 2010 at 09:19:46 AM EST
    but I think you're actually doing a disservice to Mitch McConnell with that comparison. Brett is far higher on the "it's all about me" drama queen scale.

    Parent
    I probably know as little about it as (none / 0) (#141)
    by ruffian on Tue Dec 21, 2010 at 09:29:10 AM EST
    is possible to know - I don't follow the details much. But holy cow, what an egomaniac!!!  He was not even going to be upstaged by the weather or the stadium! I hate to see anyone get hurt, but thank god for the Bears pass rush or the game would have been unwatchable.

    Parent
    John Chait: (none / 0) (#7)
    by andgarden on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 02:39:14 PM EST
    My belief is that regulation generally serves at least some facsimile of its intended purpose.

    link.

    Erm, rah, rah facsimile healthcare regulations!

    Why not the San Diego Bowl? (none / 0) (#10)
    by Dadler on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 02:43:23 PM EST
    Currently that would result in the game being called the San Diego County Credit Union San Diego Bowl. That said, if the Chargers leave town soon (which I would rather have happen than the city or county lavish half a billion they don't have on the NFL), then it's a good thing SDSU is on the rise in football and basketball (the Aztecs hoop team will be ranked about 8th in the nation this week, I predict). At least we know SDSU isn't moving for a better deal.

    I was wrong (none / 0) (#21)
    by Dadler on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 03:10:49 PM EST
    Gotta root for Toledo (none / 0) (#11)
    by jbindc on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 02:45:02 PM EST
    Go MAC schools!

    The NYPD... (none / 0) (#20)
    by kdog on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 03:09:03 PM EST
    thanks to a knucklehead delivery boy, have ruined alotta Christmases.  

    Assuming the knucklehead was driving like the man says he was driving...the man has been known to make that kinda sh*t up when it suits him.

     

    to a search of the vehicle. Sorry if that messed up your holiday :) I'll have a good cigar by the fire pit with a nice beverage(or three) of my choice.
    Merry Christmas kdog!

    Parent
    Lucky for me and mine... (none / 0) (#36)
    by kdog on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 03:55:47 PM EST
    no shortage of more where that came from r-crat!  Christmas greetings right back at ya!

    And bricked like that, it's probably the denny...none of that heading my way, I've become a snob in my middle age:)

    I was thinking of those counting on flipping some of that shipment to buy Christmas presents for their families...the man done stole Christmas.  Always a sin...but in this job market, a major sin.  You know those "quit lookings" they reference in regards to unemployment...some quit looking cuz they turned to black market hustling to survive.

    Parent

    Jury pool in marijuana case stages `mutiny' (none / 0) (#34)
    by republicratitarian on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 03:52:25 PM EST
    awesome (none / 0) (#37)
    by CST on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 03:55:49 PM EST
    I think this says it all:

    "Given the fact that marijuana use became widespread in the 1960s, most of those early users are now in late middle age and fast approaching elderly.

    Is it fair, Deschamps wondered, in such cases to insist upon impaneling a jury of "hardliners" who object to all drug use, including marijuana?

    "I think that poses a real challenge in proceeding," he said. "Are we really seating a jury of their peers if we just leave people on who are militant on the subject?"

    Public opinion is changing, and it's not just young people anymore.

    Parent

    Ah, but (none / 0) (#39)
    by jbindc on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 03:59:07 PM EST
    No one is ever guaranteed a "jury of their peers."

    Parent
    no, but they are (none / 0) (#42)
    by CST on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 04:05:26 PM EST
    supposedly guaranteed an "impartial jury"

    Parent
    So only people (none / 0) (#43)
    by jbindc on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 04:06:27 PM EST
    Who belive in drug legalization can be impartial as to specific charges?

    I disagree completely.

    Parent

    that's not what I said (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by CST on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 04:17:49 PM EST
    What I'm actually arguing is the negative of the opposite of that.

    In other words - I (and apparently the prosecuter in this case) disagree with the notion that only people who hold very pro-criminalization views can be impartial.

    Parent

    Thats awesome... (none / 0) (#38)
    by kdog on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 03:58:51 PM EST
    more of this please America...jury nullification is totally justified and righteous since our leaders have failed to correct their predecessors grand mistake.  It's up to us as jurors to put the brakes on the madness.

    Parent
    This is (none / 0) (#48)
    by Zorba on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 04:17:26 PM EST
    jury nullification before the jury is even chosen!  ROTFLMAO!

    Parent
    Y'know, it's hard to come up (none / 0) (#45)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 04:10:00 PM EST
    with fitting Samhain/Christmas/nondenominational songs to dedicate to my friends... here's my try for BTD, though...Slim Whitman. He was from Florida, after all.

    Reporting from JFK: (none / 0) (#61)
    by oculus on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 04:37:16 PM EST
    Boarding pass states "Priority AACCESS.". Does this axccount for scatter scan, wanding, AND patdown?

    Heh. 'Priority' might mean (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 04:41:00 PM EST
    a free "happy ending."

    I just threw up a little in my mouth.

    Parent

    for Zorba... (none / 0) (#71)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 04:59:21 PM EST
    Sorry I couldn't do any better. zorba

    Thank you, Jeff (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by Zorba on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 05:13:08 PM EST
    One of the anthems of my generation.  That and "We Shall Overcome" and "Blowing in the Wind."  

    Parent
    Our generations, Zorba. (5.00 / 0) (#84)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 05:15:59 PM EST
    It's a summation, approaching infinity, with limits of one, negative one.

    Parent
    I DO love irony (none / 0) (#80)
    by jbindc on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 05:11:22 PM EST
    Lawyers cry fould over leak of Assange sex-case papers.

    Waaaahhhh!  Papers that graphically detail the charges against Assange have been leaked to The Guardian - the same paper that published the Wikileaks.

    Doncha just hate it when irony comes to bite you in the a$$?

    In a move that surprised many of Mr Assange's closest supporters on Saturday, The Guardian newspaper published previously unseen police documents that accused Mr Assange in graphic detail of sexually assaulting two Swedish women. One witness is said to have stated: "Not only had it been the world's worst screw, it had also been violent."

    More

    Oh, my (5.00 / 1) (#128)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 11:15:07 PM EST
    Thanks for posting this.  I must say, I find the idea that the U.S. government, CIA or whatever, somehow drummed up or fabricated these allegations to be more than a little unlikely.

    Even if you consider Assange a hero for what he's done with WikiLeaks, which I really don't much, it's entirely possible for somebody to be a hero and a sexual scumbag at the same time.

    And yes, I'd say he just got hoist by his own petard, as the saying goes.  Tough t&&ties, Julian.

    Parent

    Between these leaks (none / 0) (#132)
    by jbindc on Tue Dec 21, 2010 at 07:38:58 AM EST
    And his reaction to creepy, stalker-like emails he sent to an 18 year old, makes me think Mr. Assange is getting a taste of his own medicine.

    Parent
    Bitter Memories of War - Hedges (none / 0) (#94)
    by waldenpond on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 05:41:35 PM EST
    Moving piece by Hedges.

    Bitter Memories of War on the Way to Jail.

    [What can I tell you about war?

    War perverts and destroys you. It pushes you closer and closer to your own annihilation--spiritual, emotional and, finally, physical. It destroys the continuity of life, tearing apart all systems, economic, social, environmental and political, that sustain us as human beings. War is necrophilia. The essence of war is death. War is a state of almost pure sin with its goals of hatred and destruction. It is organized sadism. War fosters alienation and leads inevitably to nihilism. It is a turning away from the sanctity of life.]

    Apparently several people were just banned by the site for comments challenging the 'left' because of it's status quo inaction.  A left site banning people for being what? too left?  Don't forget to donate. ha!ha!ha!  Am I wrong to find it intriguing how people are completely abandoning whatever vestiges of integrity they had in some desperate attempt to stand up 'their' side.

    Not going to get into a (none / 0) (#96)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 05:51:47 PM EST
    contest with you, Walden, but Hedges has his reality. It isn't mine, and I served all around the world. Perhaps there's something different from taking a side and reporting on both sides.

    I am more connected with humanity now. I'm sorry for Hedges if he is not.

    Parent

    That was funny (none / 0) (#97)
    by waldenpond on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 05:57:23 PM EST
    You made me chuckle out loud. ..... Hedges isn't in touch with humanity! hahaha!!!!

    Parent
    you must have reading comprehension issues. (none / 0) (#98)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 06:01:14 PM EST
    It's Obama who is not (none / 0) (#100)
    by observed on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 06:03:28 PM EST
    in touch with his humanity. He seems just as morally empty as Bush.

    Parent
    So . . . can we finally stick a fork (none / 0) (#126)
    by nycstray on Mon Dec 20, 2010 at 11:12:16 PM EST
    in Favre and consider him officially done?

    In other news, the clouds are lightening up and I may be able to watch the eclipse from my porch. Would be a nice for breaks during work . . . . which is driving my brain batty. Oh, well client seems happy as I feed her the comps . . .

    Best. Sack. Ever. (none / 0) (#142)
    by ruffian on Tue Dec 21, 2010 at 09:32:29 AM EST
    I'm good. (none / 0) (#133)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Dec 21, 2010 at 08:19:36 AM EST
    why am I starting to feel
    (none / 0) (#83)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Dec 10, 2010 at 08:44:39 AM EST

    that this is a kabuki and that it is all going to pass before the holidays?

    the tax bill, repeal of DADT, START, not sure about the DREAM act.

    but I have this "feeling" that is all may happen.

    maybe its the holiday season.  or maybe I am coming down with something.

    start will pass today or tomorrow.


    Endgame: (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Dec 21, 2010 at 09:15:45 AM EST
    as will the (none / 0) (#135)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Dec 21, 2010 at 08:34:03 AM EST
    Sept. 11 first responders bill

    Parent
    All great news (none / 0) (#144)
    by ruffian on Tue Dec 21, 2010 at 09:34:36 AM EST
    I'm sure you have seen the Jon Stewart shaming of the Republicans on the 9/11 responders bill. I get on his case for not bringing the full hurt more often, but maybe it is more effective when used sparingly.

    Parent
    it seems (none / 0) (#146)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Dec 21, 2010 at 09:38:31 AM EST
    they seriously have dropped all pretense of being for anyone but millionaires.  but I think people are starting to notice.

    seriously.  the 9/11 responders?

    Parent

    Exactly (none / 0) (#148)
    by ruffian on Tue Dec 21, 2010 at 11:23:59 AM EST
    How is that not a no-brainer? Is there even one citizen who would disagree?

    Parent
    I thought it was odd (none / 0) (#149)
    by jbindc on Tue Dec 21, 2010 at 11:25:26 AM EST
    Especially after all that stuff about "our heroes" who made sacrifices (which I agree with).  Apparently, they were just using them as "Patriot props" and don't really care about them.

    Color.Me.Shocked.

    Parent

    heh - atrios about Stewart and Obama (none / 0) (#150)
    by ruffian on Tue Dec 21, 2010 at 03:33:12 PM EST
    If Jon Stewart Can Do It

    Then maybe a charismatic fairly popular tall skinny guy with a fancy podium and the ability to get people to point TV cameras at him almost any moment can figure out how to do it.



    Parent
    You (none / 0) (#143)
    by CoralGables on Tue Dec 21, 2010 at 09:32:59 AM EST
    scored a direct hit on this one. Well done.

    Parent
    Obama on the tax cut deal (none / 0) (#136)
    by lilburro on Tue Dec 21, 2010 at 08:54:08 AM EST
    via this Dkos diary, National Journal says:

    At a White House news conference on December 7 in which he announced a deal to extend the Bush tax cuts, Barack Obama chastised his liberal base for sticking unrealistically to their "purist" positions.

    What the president didn't say was that a few hours earlier he had met with and tried to assauge some his most vociferous liberal critics -- economists Paul Krugman, Joseph Stiglitz, Jeffrey Sachs, Alan Blinder, and Robert Reich, the former Labor secretary.

    and

    The two participants, both of whom would recount the conversation only on condition of anonymity, said that the conversation came to no resolution.

    "He didn't really respond,'' said one of the participants. "He said it was hard to change the narrative after 30 years" of small-government rhetoric and policies dating back to Ronald Reagan.  "He seemed to be looking for a way to reassure the base. Or maybe it was just to reassure himself."

    11th dimensional chess just isn't enough.

    OK, I know now that as a rule (none / 0) (#145)
    by ruffian on Tue Dec 21, 2010 at 09:37:11 AM EST
    lots of Dems are just as bad as lots of Republicans...but they are not as bad as this Republican. He really must be stopped.

    Haley Barbour's Affection For the WSCC.

    he has a long (none / 0) (#147)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Dec 21, 2010 at 10:02:29 AM EST
    long history with these folks

    Parent