home

Monday Night Open Thread

There's the Olympics. And on the Bachelor, Women Tell All Nothing. Also, 24 and Life Unexpected.

The Center for Constitutional Rights has obtained new FOIA documents showing Congress knew much more about the CIA's secret rendition program and torture than previously disclosed. The new documents also highlight the role of Dick Cheney counsel Richard Addington. For example, a newly obtained February 4, 2003, CIA memo documents the role of Counsel for the Office of the Vice President (OVP) in analyzing and approving the CIA techniques. CCR says:

“Members of Congress must come clean about whether they encouraged or objected to torture during these many secret meetings with CIA officials and we need a complete accounting of Cheney’s counsel, David Addington’s, role in the creation of the torture program. These new documents show that the CIA may have lied to Congress about the role of interrogation techniques in detainee deaths and key members of Congress abdicated their oversight role. This new information points even more strongly to the need for a full criminal investigation of the torture program, up the entire chain of command.”

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

< Holder: Zazi Another Example of Successes of Civilian Terror Trials | Parsing Rockefeller On Reconciliation And The Public Option >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


  • Display: Sort:
    Don't forget Damages! (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by Anne on Mon Feb 22, 2010 at 09:27:08 PM EST
    Really enjoying that this season.

    thanks for the reminder (none / 0) (#4)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Feb 22, 2010 at 10:08:32 PM EST
    It is really good this season. It's not on till 11pm here.

    Parent
    Me too (none / 0) (#17)
    by ruffian on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 09:48:18 AM EST
    Can't wait to see what Martin Short's character is really up to.

    Parent
    In Tracy news this morning (5.00 / 2) (#11)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 09:02:05 AM EST
    Dick Cheney had a heart attack when he received multiple verifications that Chalabi will get the oil, and that would be all of the oil too.  And girls are trying to get Vick to show us his naked butt by giving PETA a million dollars.  We are all standing around the stage with the pole waving our dollar bills at him trying to get him to do it.  I always knew we had it in us :)  

    Silly... (5.00 / 2) (#56)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 02:37:34 PM EST
    ...everyone knows that old Dick doesn't have a heart!

    Parent
    This is why... (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 10:36:40 AM EST
    ...I hate going to the hospital:

    Pneumonia and blood-borne infections caught in U.S. hospitals killed 48,000 patients and cost $8.1 billion in 2006, according to a report released on Monday.

    Link

    Even though yesterday's visit was for a simple ultrasound, I always wonder what I'm being exposed to.  Scary stuff!


    I feel exactly the same way. (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 10:38:24 AM EST
    I hate even going to see the doctor.  I sit there holding my breath trying not to touch anything.

    Parent
    My office mate (none / 0) (#39)
    by ruffian on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 11:30:06 AM EST
    visited her mother in the hospital this weekend and ended up with the stomach flu. She has missed two days (and counting) of work, and we don't get paid sick leave since we are contractors.

    Not to mention, she can't visit her mother again, for fear of giving her the flu. But her mother is probably catching that or worse as we speak.

    Another friend's daughter went to the ER a few months ago and came out with a staph infection in her leg - almost lost her leg.

    No thank you.


    Parent

    I know the feeling (none / 0) (#57)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 04:24:03 PM EST
    Scares me with Joshua too and the rib kids.

    Parent
    That's the patients... (none / 0) (#59)
    by weltec2 on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 07:59:21 PM EST
    How many doctors and nurses could be included in that tally.

    Parent
    Old (1910's-1920's)... (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 11:09:40 AM EST
    The Early Daze, parts 2 & 3 (none / 0) (#1)
    by Dadler on Mon Feb 22, 2010 at 08:51:01 PM EST
    And thanks Jondee and Sarc. (none / 0) (#2)
    by Dadler on Mon Feb 22, 2010 at 08:52:21 PM EST
    Saw your comments earlier.  Cheers.

    Parent
    Expect Congress to come clean? (none / 0) (#6)
    by abdiel on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 02:06:33 AM EST
    HA!

    The key word is "exoneration" (none / 0) (#7)
    by abdiel on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 02:10:44 AM EST
    and unless you've been taught by John Yoo at Berkeley, I'm not sure you should judge how much "use" he is to the university.  Or how to further debase our judicial system by having it exact arbitrary revenge for people who are exonerated of their crimes.

    Not sure how you define (none / 0) (#8)
    by observed on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 04:15:40 AM EST
    "exonerated" but to me it means that the person's behavior has shown to be completely above question. Margolis said he couldn't charge Yoo with anything because the conduct standard for client representation is so low. He harshly criticized Yoo.

    Parent
    "exonerated" means (none / 0) (#12)
    by abdiel on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 09:11:05 AM EST
    all the criticism is a mere difference of opinion.  You can blast him for being immoral or making the wrong call, but all this talk about firing him from Berkeley or putting him in a kangaroo court is moot.  

    Parent
    But venting is soooo good (none / 0) (#13)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 09:21:08 AM EST
    Very Nixonian (none / 0) (#61)
    by observed on Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 06:17:00 AM EST
    ever use "criminalization of politics"? That works well too.


    Parent
    Despite damning testimony... (none / 0) (#9)
    by kdog on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 08:35:16 AM EST
    from a fellow officer, the sodomizers of Mr. Mineo were acquitted.

    I'm a firm believer in the guilty going free being preferable to the innocent being convicted...it just seems like the guilty going free work for the state more often than not.

    Aside from Mr. Mineo, I feel really bad for the officer who broke the blue wall of silence and testified...his career is over because he took his oath to protect and serve seriously.  Most unfortunate.

    Matt Taibbi's latest... (none / 0) (#10)
    by kdog on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 08:43:07 AM EST
    on the great Wall St. con-job of the 21st century is a must read.

    It's enough to make a non-violent person wanna volunteer to sharpen the guillotine.

    I got a Rolling Stone Subscription (none / 0) (#16)
    by ruffian on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 09:47:23 AM EST
    for my birthday - someone wanting to keep me young I guess. So far the Matt Taibbi stuff is the best reason to read the magazine. Looking forward to reading that article tonight with a g&t in hand for pain relief.

    Parent
    Speaking of pain relief... (none / 0) (#18)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 09:56:20 AM EST
    ...the use of marijuana by "boomers" is on the rise:

    The rise was most dramatic among 55-to-59-year-olds, whose reported marijuana use more than tripled from 1.6 percent in 2002 to 5.1 percent.

    Observers expect further increases as 78 million boomers born between 1945 and 1964 age. For many boomers, the drug never held the stigma it did for previous generations, and they tried it decades ago.

    Some have used it ever since, while others are revisiting the habit in retirement, either for recreation or as a way to cope with aches and pains of aging.

    Siegel walks with a cane and has arthritis in her back and legs. She finds marijuana has helped her sleep better than pills ever did. And she can't figure out why everyone her age isn't sharing a joint, too.

    "They're missing a lot of fun and a lot of relief," she said.



    Parent
    Makes perfect sense to me (none / 0) (#20)
    by ruffian on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 10:22:11 AM EST
    Better that than anti-depressants.

    As someone who did not really partake in my youth, I look forward to trying something new!

    Parent

    Wish I could... (none / 0) (#21)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 10:27:15 AM EST
    ...get my Mom to try it.  She's tried everything else under the sun for her problems sleeping. Although, she wouldn't be able to get it from Group Health, so supply could be a problem.

    Parent
    One of the guys on my football team... (none / 0) (#26)
    by kdog on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 10:46:48 AM EST
    has a very ill father who would likely benefit from some medicinal use...but he's too old school, stuck in the old brain-washed past to try it.  "Reefer is for dirty commie deviants" and all that.

    It's a real shame...I told him I'd bake some brownies if it would help convince the old man to give it a shot:)

    Parent

    Brownies would do it (none / 0) (#35)
    by ruffian on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 11:24:25 AM EST
    My objections were always to the smoking part - I just don't like smoking anything. When I indulge it will be in the baked form!

    Parent
    Gotta disagree there... (none / 0) (#43)
    by kdog on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 11:58:33 AM EST
    I love that lungs full of smoke feeling...after the euphoria its the best part!

    Eating it takes so long to kick-in that I tend to get impatient and smoke a little too...which isn't the worst thing in the world:)

    I'll tell ya what brownies are great for...flying.  After the hour or two security rig-a-ma-roll it's kickin' in right as you're taking off.  Makes that cramped coach seat next the crying baby all the more bearable...and better for ya than valiums or percocets.

    Parent

    Then all you need (none / 0) (#46)
    by jondee on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 12:07:53 PM EST
    is an ipod with some Northern Lights Southern Cross,
    Rastaman Vibration etc and at least you'll be in a good space if anything untoward ever did happen..

    Parent
    Jupiter Hollow (none / 0) (#47)
    by jondee on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 12:09:48 PM EST
    is a very underrated track from that album, btw..
    With a lot of close seconds.

    Parent
    When it come to The Band... (none / 0) (#53)
    by kdog on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 01:31:00 PM EST
    they're all under-rated...one of those bands I think you need a music background, or at least an abnormal love of music, to truly appreciate.

    Parent
    Probably not good (none / 0) (#49)
    by jbindc on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 12:20:55 PM EST
    For her head cold, though - the smoke is the worst part. :)

    Parent
    Cheech & Cong (none / 0) (#60)
    by weltec2 on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 08:11:27 PM EST
    are smiling.

    Parent
    I got a subscription for Christmas.... (none / 0) (#22)
    by kdog on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 10:30:50 AM EST
    when it comes to the political stuff Taibbi is the best...he uses street vernacular and laymen's terms I can understand.

    Better make it a double tonight ruffian...I got halfway through it and so wanted to take a personal day today to go down to Goldman Sachs and steal something back...a gold plated stapler, anything I could get my hands on:)

    It is the crime of the century...so far.

    Parent

    Did you see Bill Maher's interview (none / 0) (#33)
    by ruffian on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 11:23:01 AM EST
    with Elizabeth Warren on his HBO show the other night? At the very end of it he gave a very honest reaction that mirrored how I have been feeling. He shook his head and said something like 'this country is so messed up and no matter what people just get screwed.'

    I will make it a double. Also I have been fighting a  bad head cold, so I will probably have some other medication.

    Parent

    We share that feeling.... (none / 0) (#41)
    by kdog on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 11:45:39 AM EST
    sh*t millions must share it...and you can sum it up with a lot of cliches.

    "Born to lose", "Ya just can't win", "Rich get richer poor get poorer"...

    This credit card regulation stuff is the perfect example...ya try to level the playing field and the con-artists are two steps ahead...with a way around the regs figured out before the regs even take effect.  It's what turns me on about libertarian anarchy...a lawless fighting chance has gotta be better than a rigged game.

    Parent

    The credit card rules (none / 0) (#50)
    by ruffian on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 12:54:09 PM EST
    were exactly what prompted the despair. Warren explained just what you said, that the banks have already figured out how to circumvent most of the new rules.

    I know giving up isn't the answer, but it sure is tempting.

    Parent

    Just wait till you read Taibbi... (none / 0) (#51)
    by kdog on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 01:21:37 PM EST
    tonight...you ain't seen despair yet.  Makes the credit card crew look like saints.

    If not playing is giving up, I done gave up already...we can't beat 'em, but luckily its still legal to limit your exposure to the game...until we go cashless that is, then we're royally f*cked.

    Parent

    On the brightside... (none / 0) (#52)
    by kdog on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 01:29:09 PM EST
    there's a good piece on Clapton & Beck...two guys who made a very good living spreading joy instead of misery.  Read that 2nd:)

    Parent
    Well, don't worry. (none / 0) (#54)
    by lilburro on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 01:57:16 PM EST
    The rules we're making up for insurance companies are DEFINITELY going to work!!!!

    Parent
    Bill Maher is a pain in the neck (none / 0) (#55)
    by bridget on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 02:01:13 PM EST
    I didn't watch the interview but I did watch his HBO show premiere and it couldn't have been worse ... it was not just super crude (why he went that way after all the shows he's done, well, I have my opinion on that but will keep it to myself)and lacked criticism of the government. AND his Obamalove was downright embarrassing.

    He carried on and on about BO's sexyness (in public or in private, incl. his marriage), his looks, his cool manners and how strongly the women felt attracted to him (Obama). It was so obvious his subconscious was talking.
    You have to see it to believe it.

    In a preview of the HBO show I read that Maher would be critical ... Well, certainly not of the government, the WH and the president. He had plenty of opportunity to speak the truth but obviously he wimped out. Or he simply doesn't have a clue. He has tendency to be very wrong and very slow to come around to  political reality ... and that goes back to the time when his show was still on ABC.

    I was so disgusted by his performance that I  didn't watch Maher's first weekly HBO show last Friday. We have HBO on Demand so I can watch it whenever I want to BUT for now, spare me, Mr. Maher!  

    Parent

    climate change whacko finds a nut (none / 0) (#14)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 09:25:10 AM EST
    he thinks:

    Senator James Inhofe (R-OK) today asked the Obama administration to investigate what he called "the greatest scientific scandal of our generation" -- the actions of climate scientists revealed by the Climategate Files, and the subsequent admissions by the editors of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) Fourth Assessment Report (AR4).

    Senator Inhofe also called for former Vice President Al Gore to be called back to the Senate to testify.

    "In [Gore's] science fiction movie, every assertion has been rebutted," Inhofe said. He believes Vice President Gore should defend himself and his movie before Congress.

    Inhofe To Ask for DOJ Investigation

    it made me smile (none / 0) (#15)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 09:43:30 AM EST
    to find this flower among the ruins this morning:

    Wow. Just as soon as the "Hot Air" blog was purchased by the Christian conglomerate Salem Communications from conservative commentator Michelle Malkin, it has suddenly become an advocate for all things gay. What in the world is up with that?
    For background, GOPROUD is an organization dedicated to advancing special rights for homosexual behavior, and advocates the overthrow of the Defense of Marriage Act and the overthrow of the law banning homosexual service in the military.
    Not only was GOPROUD welcomed at CPAC, an event which is supposed to be the annual showcase for conservative values, the organization was allowed to sponsor the event, giving visibility and recognition to its effort to legitimize sexual deviancy.
    A Saturday post, from Repurblican, takes one of my new heroes, Ryan Sorba of California Young Americans for Freedom, to task for making the common sense statement at CPAC that homosexual sex cannot lead to reproduction. For this obviously correct observation, he was booed off the stage. And "Hot Air," now under Christian management, has made Sorba out to be the bad guy.
    For speaking truth to power, "Hot Air" accused Sorba of "bombthrowing," and said his remarks represented a "gratuitous and public...slam on homosexuals."
    The lead blogger of "Hot Air," Ed Morrissey, has apparently experienced a new-found freedom under Salem's Christian leadership to bash proponents of morality grounded in natural law. Said Morrissey, "At some point, Republicans will need to get over their issues with homosexuality."

    Link


    Hot Air (none / 0) (#19)
    by CST on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 10:11:58 AM EST
    is interesting - in that while it is a right-wing blog, they generally have taken a softer stance on the social issues.  Ed Morrissey is smart enough to know that for the republican party to have any future - this is the way they have to move forward.  I know one of their main bloggers is an athiest who tries to promote the sucularization of the party, and they tend to stay away from the culture wars.  This move doesn't surprise me.  

    That being said, they generally take the hardline right-wing stance on everything else.

    Parent

    I think its (none / 0) (#23)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 10:31:19 AM EST
    Morrissey who is the atheist.  they take the hard line on many things but they also make fun of the birthers and Palin.

    its the one right side blog I read pretty much every day.

    Parent

    Isnt social conservatism (none / 0) (#27)
    by jondee on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 10:51:33 AM EST
    "family values" etc about the only bone the Repubs have left in their repertoire to throw to the great outsourced and downsized? I dont see them completely giving up on a strategy any time soon that's been so integral to their coalition. Without all the Jesus, guns and flags smoke and mirrors and moonshine to stir their blood, the folks might start looking at the way the Masters of the Universe have commandeered their party every bit as much as they've commandeered the other party.

    Parent
    it is (none / 0) (#29)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 11:01:48 AM EST
    and its also not working anymore.  smart conservatives are starting to understand that.  lets hope they continue to write things like the above about the smart conservatives.


    Parent
    Some of the younger generation (none / 0) (#37)
    by jbindc on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 11:25:13 AM EST
    Are involved in things with their (evangelical) churches that promote being good envrionmental stewards.

    Maybe there's hope yet.

    Parent

    any time soon? (none / 0) (#44)
    by CST on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 12:04:40 PM EST
    If they want to remain viable over the next decade - they will have to.

    As it is, they lose almost every voter under 30 with that schtick.  In 10 years, that will be every voter under 40.

    Parent

    Between this... (none / 0) (#28)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 10:59:21 AM EST
    ...Scott Brown (Rino!) voting for the jobs bill and World Nut Daily calling Glen Beck a wild-eyed liberal, it's been an interesting week already for the nutterz.

    Parent
    Caught some Beck... (none / 0) (#31)
    by kdog on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 11:13:33 AM EST
    last night, a clip from his speaking tour...he was on a tear ripping the too big to fail's...I'll be damned if I wasn't nodding along in agreement.

    Call him what you will, but you can't call him a Republican.

    Parent

    My question is.. (none / 0) (#34)
    by jondee on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 11:23:32 AM EST
    Would he be doing it had McCain been elected? I have my doubts.

    Until he starts delineating in depth for the folks how the too-big-to-fail got too-big-to-fail and why they remain too-big-to-fail, Im gonna say he's just  exploiting a lot of unfocused rage without contributing any real understanding.

    Parent

    I think he would be (none / 0) (#38)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 11:25:20 AM EST
    those people hate McCain almost as much as Obama.

    I said almost.


    Parent

    Somehow I dont see Fox (none / 0) (#40)
    by jondee on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 11:33:30 AM EST
    hiring someone who unflinchingly applies the same standards to both parties. That reactionary old goat scrotum would stand for it. Not for long..

     

    Parent

    nodding along with Beck (none / 0) (#36)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 11:24:33 AM EST
    is not permitted.  even if you by some chance agree with him.
    this can lead to clicking on "contribute" links to bad people.


    Parent
    No worries... (none / 0) (#42)
    by kdog on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 11:49:16 AM EST
    I contribute via a couple dollars in a homeless person's palm, the soup kitchen, and thats about it...never a politician or pundit or shady group.  

    I might not be too bright but I ain't no sucka:)

    Parent

    Whirled Nut Daily (none / 0) (#32)
    by jondee on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 11:15:26 AM EST
    how far off the rails do you have to be to worry about Beck being too liberal?

    The last time I looked at their site they had a post about "scripturally based" oil drilling in the Holy Land..:)

    Parent

    consumer confidence stinks (none / 0) (#45)
    by Jlvngstn on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 12:07:17 PM EST
    I believe I read here "the key to jobs is increased spending".  

    Does congress have access to the internets?

    History in the Remaking... (none / 0) (#48)
    by desertswine on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 12:17:28 PM EST
    A Temple Complex in Turkey

    Interesting reading from Newsweek about our origins.

    Great stuff. (none / 0) (#58)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Feb 23, 2010 at 06:44:42 PM EST