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Pelosi Reminds Obama That He Used To Support The Public Option

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    Tweak it? (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by DancingOpossum on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 11:14:07 AM EST
    Why does it need tweaking if it's such a good bill?

    And for the record, none of us Obama "haters" EVER thought this was a good bill, your claim that this is a new objection we've come up with in our neverending quest to deny His Magisterial Greatness notwithstanding. We've said from day one that it was no good, and that if it passes, both the American people and the Democrats will have he** to pay for it.

    We've also pointed out from day one that the unions are heavily opposed to the exise tax. This isn't us scrambling for reasons to oppose the bill--sounds like it is more the supporters of it who are scrambling to come up with reasons why. So instead of attacking us as "haters," tell us why it's such a great bill.

    There is a lot of name-flinging and insult-tossing from those who think that Obama's plan is great and wonderful, but very little substance to counter the very real problems that we've cited about this plan from day one. Even the benefits you cite, meager as they are, won't take effect until Obama is out of office. Why do you suppose that is? Why wouldn't he want to run on the strengths of this marvelous piece of legislation?

    make a false assumption (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 11:15:18 AM EST
    and talk endlessly about it.

    yeah.  thats the ticket.

    Parent

    Captain, I think you are right on that (none / 0) (#66)
    by KeysDan on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 01:48:13 PM EST
    but it will require regulations and enforcement of them.   After all, there is no limit to what can be done by fraud (even the legal variety perfected by insurers).  Who knows, they just have to make up new definitions so that they do not deny  preexisting conditions, only preexisting diseases:}  

    Parent
    my personal opinion (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 02:34:03 PM EST
    is that anyone who thinks the insurance companies are going to "get around" the pre existing condition thing is delusional.  

    its the central element of this.  I wont get sucked into the paranoid delusion talk.

    Parent

    You're not entitled to your own facts (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by Lora on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 11:22:44 AM EST
    Nicely done.

    Nancy Pelosi set the record straight on two points:

    1. The law of the land is NO public money for abortion [sadly and wrongly in my opinion], and

    2. The medicare cuts in the bills do NOT cut benefits to seniors.

    Let the facts be known.  As first Al Franken and then later Joe Biden and now Nancy Pelosi in paraphrase have said:

    You're not entitled to your own facts!

    People can disagree with the cause and (none / 0) (#47)
    by MO Blue on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 11:46:35 AM EST
    effects of the Medicare cuts. Even the CBO is unclear on Medicare.

    Based on the longer-term extrapolation, CBO expects that inflation-adjusted Medicare spending per beneficiary would increase at an average annual rate of less than 2 percent during the next two decades under the legislation--about half of the roughly 4 percent annual growth rate of the past two decades. It is unclear whether such a reduction in the growth rate could be achieved, and if so, whether it would be accomplished through greater efficiencies in the delivery of health care or would reduce access to care or diminish the quality of care. CBO


    Parent
    Heh (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by DancingOpossum on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 01:13:59 PM EST
    I would be curious what brilliant schemes you think they will come up with to "avoid" this pre existing condition thing.

    how exactly do you imagine they would do that?

    As any psychologist will tell you, the best predictor of behavior is past behavior:

    That stuff is ALREADY illegal. But the insurers do it anyway, using what they call "post-claims underwriting." Here's a long but gripping article about a recent case in Colorado, where Jennifer Latham won a huge jury verdict against her insurer for dropping her post-claims:

    "I think there's a business model here," Levy says. "The insurance company knows that if they deny a hundred claims, 95 of those people are going to go away. They know that five of them might consult with a lawyer, and that two or three of them might get a lawyer to take their case. And they know they're going to make it very expensive and protracted for those people to pursue their case."

    http://www.westword.com/2010-02-11/news/health-care-hell-the-insurance-company-didn-t-give-a-damn-th e-jury-decided-it-ought-to-give-37-million/1

    Even TPM posted about it, as the best argument for a Public Option, because it is not going away as long as we have insurance companies as the center of our healthcare system.

    http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/tmcpac/2009/06/the-single-best-reason-for-kil.php

    There have been many lawsuits over this practice and yet insurers keep on doing it. Why? See the quote from the lawyer above. It's worth it to them, because so few people actually fight them.

    So, how is the healthcare reform bill that Obama is proposing going to fix this? The govt. says, "From now on, you can't deny people upfront because of preexisting conditions," the insurance companies say, "OK, we won't," and then continuing denying people post-claims. And this is a win...how?

    check back with me (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 01:22:25 PM EST
    after the bill passes.  and lets see how they are doin.

    k?


    Parent

    See, that's not how to get support (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by Cream City on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 02:04:04 PM EST
    from thinking people.  That has been the problem with some of the pols' responses, too.  

    I give Obama credit for this exercise as not dumbing down to the American people, for not acting on the premise that all that all of us can handle is soundbytes.  Sure, have the soundbytes from those who want no more.  But some of us want more than soundbytes, than mantras . . . such as "trust me."

    Parent

    since I am working (none / 0) (#72)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 02:29:59 PM EST
    while I do this I have a limited amount of time to spend on it.  there are people here that I feel like spending that time on and, well, others.


    Parent
    Silly Nancy (none / 0) (#1)
    by jbindc on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 09:47:24 AM EST
    She doubts the Great One's words?

    "I didn't campaign on the public option."

    What's wrong with her?  Didn't she get the memo?

    She established (none / 0) (#2)
    by BTAL on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 09:55:45 AM EST
    that is was not the House that failed.

    It was her way of putting on the record that her leadership and caucus will not be the ones blamed when HCR dies.

    The finger pointing blame game is heating up.

    "when HCR dies" (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 09:59:37 AM EST
    you know
    in spite of all the wishes on stars here.
    its going to pass.


    Parent
    Unfortunately (none / 0) (#4)
    by jbindc on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 10:03:48 AM EST
    It's a crappy bill that won't have benefits that take effect until 2014 (or is it 2016 now).

    Parent
    If it retains the President's/House's (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by andgarden on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 10:08:51 AM EST
    requirement that legacy plans be immediately subject to new regulations, and it retains the Nelson language (instead of Stupak), it's probably worthwhile. From my own personal perspective, it keeps me off of the individual market for another year, and that's a Good Thing.

    Parent
    ah (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 10:12:47 AM EST
    I see plan B has been deployed.  no longer works to say nothing will pass so IF it passes its worthless.


    Parent
    So which is passing (none / 0) (#7)
    by BTAL on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 10:15:49 AM EST
    Plan A or Plan B?

    The WH says Plan B doesn't exist.

    Parent

    wasnt talking (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 10:18:12 AM EST
    about the white houses plan B but the Obama haters plan B.

    I dont think the white has a plan B.  they are taking this one home.

    Parent

    the population of "Obama haters" will (5.00 / 4) (#21)
    by kempis on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 10:41:09 AM EST
    ...decline if we get a bill that really does make health care more affordable, more reliable, and more accessible for all.

    Contrary to assertions by some (who I will not call Obamabots), there will be no opportunity to add to this bill next year or the year after or the year after. Once this thing is done, it's done for a good long while. So it's important not to settle for half-measures when, with a bit more fight, we could get more.

    What is disturbing to many of us (who you will probably call Obama-haters) is that the process has been far too conciliatory to Republicans and conservadems on the White House's part. Now that reconciliation is at last on the table, that seems to be changing a bit.

    Before, it was as though the White House and its Village stenographers thought that if they simply visualized a bill--ANY bill--passing by 60 votes, why then it would materialize and there would be great rejoicing--even if the bill had mandates with no public option, easily-manipulated state regulations, weak subsidies, and was riddled with holes big enough to drive a WellPoint blimp through.

    The important thing to the White House was to pass a bill with 60 votes, preferably with at least one Republican on board, so that it could be hailed as a bipartisan health care bill--a great political victory for the Obama administration. The particulars of the bill mattered less. Everything was negotiable, with the aim to secure those 60 votes. So we ended up with a watered down bill that could actually hurt this administration more than help it.

    I'm glad the battle isn't over because the Senate bill was a lemon. With reconciliation, there's an opportunity to make some lemonade. Of course, by now, I'd like mine pretty heavily spiked....

    Parent

    they wont decline (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 11:06:29 AM EST
    here.  sorry.

    Parent
    Didn't BTD recently acknowledge (none / 0) (#45)
    by oculus on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 11:44:37 AM EST
    he is running a PUMA portion of a blog?

    Parent
    no idea (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 11:46:59 AM EST
    but he might as well

    Parent
    FFS. (none / 0) (#51)
    by Dr Molly on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 11:57:25 AM EST
    so tired and lame.

    Parent
    glad (none / 0) (#52)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 11:58:16 AM EST
    you agree with us

    Parent
    Ha. Thanks. I learned something already (none / 0) (#55)
    by oculus on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 12:01:50 PM EST
    today!

    Parent
    you are entirely welcome. (none / 0) (#56)
    by Dr Molly on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 12:02:58 PM EST
    Link: (none / 0) (#53)
    by oculus on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 12:00:50 PM EST
    Here, obviously (none / 0) (#48)
    by jondee on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 11:46:51 AM EST
    Did you really think BTD... (none / 0) (#81)
    by Yman on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 03:25:50 PM EST
    ...was serious when he said that?

    Parent
    Nope. (none / 0) (#84)
    by oculus on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 05:01:39 PM EST
    I never said it wouldn't pass (none / 0) (#8)
    by jbindc on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 10:16:52 AM EST
    Of course the Dems are going to pass this horrendous Senate bill - they have to.  But using reconciliation to pass a crap bill that doesn't have any benefit for 4 or 6 years is going to come back and bite them in the a$$ - not only when they lose seats, but the next time the Republicans are in the majority and foist upon us another crap bill through reconciliation.

    Parent
    Believe it or not, (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by andgarden on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 10:19:15 AM EST
    this bill is more than the sum of the things you don't like about it. And to say that nothing happens for four years is simply false.

    What I really do disagree with now is that idea that they will "of course" pass the bill. I don't see the votes in the House. Not yet.

    Parent

    trust me on this one (none / 0) (#11)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 10:20:39 AM EST
    they will pass it

    Parent
    They want to (none / 0) (#12)
    by andgarden on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 10:24:55 AM EST
    But I'm having a difficult time counting to 217.

    Parent
    The House (none / 0) (#13)
    by BTAL on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 10:24:57 AM EST
    is where the real problems lay for the Dems.

    Too fractured and frightened.  The Stimulus votes + Cap & Trade votes + House HCR votes = major pain in many many districts.

    By not voting for the Senate bill, many in the above category can claim "it wasn't as good as ours, so I couldn't support it the second time around."

    Parent

    What benefits (none / 0) (#14)
    by jbindc on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 10:25:18 AM EST
    Will a majority of patients see immediately?

    And they will twist the arms of the House members - it's an election year and if the Dems can't pass a bill they are finished - because that's what it's all about - passing A bill.  Not a good bill, but A bill so it can get checked off the list.

    This is all gamesmanship right now.

    Parent

    I will ignore the fact (none / 0) (#16)
    by andgarden on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 10:28:56 AM EST
    that you moved the goalposts with your  "a majority of patients" qualification and note that there are big boosts in Medicaid, high risk pool funds, and (probably) new regulations for legacy policies. You must know this by now.

    Parent
    And those will start (none / 0) (#17)
    by jbindc on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 10:32:26 AM EST
    the day they pass the bill?

    What most people want is to see that they are covered with insurance, or if they have insurance, it won't be taxed - that's the game.  Coverage won't happen for years. Athough you could be right about one thing - the taxes could hit immediately.  

    That'll be a winner.

    Parent

    Very few bills start on day one, (none / 0) (#18)
    by andgarden on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 10:34:31 AM EST
    but many new regulations go into effect within months.

    If you just want to sprout Richard Burr's talking points about taxes, be my guest.

    Parent

    Talk to the unions (none / 0) (#19)
    by jbindc on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 10:36:54 AM EST
    They seem to be concerned about it.

    But I guess they don't matter.

    Parent

    You're all over the place (5.00 / 3) (#20)
    by andgarden on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 10:40:36 AM EST
    First it's the delay, then it's most people, and now it's the unions.

    If you're trying to get me to claim that everyone's happy with the bill, or that it's all roses and candy, you'll fail.

    My point is that the bill does do valuable things quickly. And you have not even attempted to refute that.

    Parent

    you noticed that too (none / 0) (#25)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 11:05:58 AM EST
    huh?

    Parent
    What's to refute? (none / 0) (#89)
    by jbindc on Sat Feb 27, 2010 at 12:43:41 PM EST
    This bill is going to be a general disaster.  Those of you who crow "anything is better than nothing" are going to be mightily surprised when all the fine print crap gets enacted.  I wait for the day when people on this blog and elsewhere are going to moan "We didn't know that would happen."

    1. The unions hate it - it will hurt not only "Cadillac plans": but basically 80% of all existing employer-based plans by taxing those benefits (wait until you get a real job with insurance and see how you like it).

    2. It's government subsidies to for-profit insurance companies.  If you think they won't figure out a way to raise rates and cover less, I have a bridge in the middle of the desert to sell you. All the while giving them more money (and the larger political power that goes along with it).

    3. There's no guarantee that we'll "get to keep our insurance if we like it".

    4. The Stupak / Nelson amendments.  'Nuff said.

    But I guess when you're lucky to be young and healthy who cares?  Hope you never need it for catastrophic coverage.

    Parent
    So that's why the GOP (none / 0) (#85)
    by Socraticsilence on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 05:03:38 PM EST
    used Reconciliation without any ramifications to pass the Bush Tax Cuts- they were pre-emptively retaliating for Health Care.

    Parent
    and when they trot out (none / 0) (#86)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 05:06:40 PM EST
    the "nothing like this has ever been done with reconciliation before" remind them of SCHIP.
    and ask them if they know what the R in COBRA stands for.

    Parent
    Captain, I am still on your team. (none / 0) (#15)
    by KeysDan on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 10:25:19 AM EST
    A health care bill will pass, the question is what will it be.  The "summit" gives the president and the Democratic Congress renewed opportunities--behind door #1 is the Senate bill, door #2 the House bill,  and  door #3 has the president's bullets. And, a procedure to put something decent together.  The president, essentially, dispatched the Republicans yesterday and permitted  all to see the need for the overdue burial of bipartisanship.  However, the real obstacles to health care reform have lost whatever cover they thought they had so as to  avoid falling through a trap door.

    Parent
    I dont say the bill is perfect (5.00 / 2) (#22)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 10:53:56 AM EST
    but it will eliminate pre existing conditions and it will prevent insurance companies from dropping sick people.

    thats huge.  even if the pumas here dont want it to be.

    one other thing.  when this done it doesnt mean its over.  they still have three years of Obamas first term to tweak it.

    my reaction here is usually to the "hate anything Obama says or does" mentality that I see here day after tiring day.     at what point does any consideration the good this bill, even in its current form, could do get acknowledged?
    never is the answer.  not as long as the hated Obama is president.

    Parent

    Yes, "the bill is not perfect". (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by KeysDan on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 12:21:04 PM EST
    At this point,  there is no one bill. Rather, the House and the Senate, and there are significant differences between them not to mention the president's recent hand at it.   If the House adopted the Senate bill lock, stock and barrel, it would be done, but that will not happen.  So, which of the imperfects will prevail is the question. Moreover, the longer the dilly dally of Democrats  and the more the  president waits for those good Republican ideas, the more imperfect it will be, in my view.

    Parent
    Another Republican "good idea" (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by MO Blue on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 12:49:59 PM EST
    to be included?

    On Friday's call, however, Andrews and Becerra left open the door that additional elements of reform (such as some variation of tort reform) could be added to the legislative language. Moreover, there are serious debates yet to be waged over what can actually pass using the reconciliation process. link

    Guess the "New Democratic Party" doesn't need the support of trial lawyers either.

    Parent

    actually it is a good idea (none / 0) (#61)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 01:04:28 PM EST

    its hard to believe that something might get done outside the interests of lobbying groups but it is possible.


    Parent
    Not sure of the strategy (none / 0) (#64)
    by KeysDan on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 01:37:40 PM EST
    of some changes in tort reform, or any other of the good ideas, so as to get maybe, just maybe one Republican vote. That is so 2009.   Both House and Senate have passed bills, and the amendments of which the article speaks can be done by reconciliation.

    Parent
    personally (none / 0) (#65)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 01:47:30 PM EST
    its not about getting a republican vote.  I just think its a good idea.  when ambulance chasers advertise on tv to find shills with which to make money, its time to fix it.

    Parent
    Well, after a year at this, (none / 0) (#70)
    by KeysDan on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 02:17:01 PM EST
    I think that between the House and Senate bills, and the president's latest, there are enough ideas to go around, including Republican ideas.  The task at hand, is to screen out all those bad Republican and Democratic ideas, to the extent possible.  For starters, Stupak in the House, Excise tax in the Senate. And in both, Medicare carrying a lion's share through "savings without cuts"--although Medicare Advantage is a good candidate for savings (a point of some summit agreement). The House revenue is also more attractive than that of the Senate.  Any new good Republican ideas, should some ever arise, could be considered after evaluation of the legislation's effect in 2050.

    Parent
    Well your so called "ambulance chasers" (none / 0) (#79)
    by MO Blue on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 03:20:02 PM EST
    vote. In the past, they normally voted for Democratic candidates. Rank and file union members also played a big role in GOTV and voted Democratic. Independents who are strongly opposed to the excise tax, pro-choice woman and Millennials, whose party affiliation has weakened considerably from its high point in 2008 all might be needed come election time. Shrinking voter support might not be the best strategy if the Dems want to stay in power.

    Parent
    I have this old fashioned idea (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 03:24:37 PM EST
    that they should do the right thing.

    Parent
    I think you're misinterpreting (none / 0) (#23)
    by observed on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 11:03:48 AM EST
    the sentiment here. It's not about hating Obama, it's about having no confidence in him.
    Sure, on balance, even the Senate bill as is could be a political victory for the Dems and a decent bill. It's the horrible ball-handling by the Dems that has many of us skeptical in a good and timely outcome to the process.

    Parent
    unhuh (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 11:05:10 AM EST
    C'mon O.. (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by jondee on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 11:28:57 AM EST
    there's five or six regular posters here who would probably interpret pushing through a public option next week as a new ruse to assuage people's      outrage about the bailouts, Afghanistan and the unprecedented outrages of the primaries.

    Parent
    and thats (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 11:30:19 AM EST
    a conservative estimate

    Parent
    They make some valid points (5.00 / 2) (#44)
    by jondee on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 11:41:19 AM EST
    ..the part I find beyond laughable is the unspoken assumption that their preferred candidate - whose defeat they'll never get over - was/is in no way beholden to the healthcare - insurance lobby and would've gotten right to work overturning the status quo like some avenging angel, come hell or high water.  

    Parent
    see (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 11:46:07 AM EST
    thats where we part ways.  Hillary was my candidate too.  and I still think she was better suited to this fight.  
    I also understand that the MSM would have been at her throat from day one and that could make the whole thing a zero sum game.

    whatever,  I dont intend to spend the rest of the next three years undermining everything I have worked for my entire life out of spite.


    Parent

    The last I looked (5.00 / 2) (#50)
    by jondee on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 11:53:58 AM EST
    the only one who in the Senate who got more Healthcare Lobby money than her was Santorum.

    The system sucks and they're all dirty because of it. I would've voted for her, but this ongoing delusion that all this wouldnt be occurring now, is to me laughable.

    Parent

    if anyone has that delusion (5.00 / 2) (#54)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 12:01:15 PM EST
    I would agree.

    on the other hand its not surprising the healtcare lobby would try to buy her since she was the one expected to take this on before the primary.
    that doesnt mean it would have worked.  those of us who know Hillary think the image people like you have of her is laughable.  

    and dont think that I am not aware that CDS is every bit as onerous as ODS.  

    I have tried hard to avoid both.


    Parent

    Believe it or not (none / 0) (#57)
    by jondee on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 12:11:03 PM EST
    me too. I'll admit to being a little reactive at times, though.

    I think it's fair to say that if you can honestly say you would've voted for her, you're not possessed by "CDS"..though I've lost count of how many times I've been accused of it.

    Parent

    My experience is (none / 0) (#58)
    by jondee on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 12:16:23 PM EST
    that, in general, the "images" we have of people, more often than not, cloud our perception of what's actually occurring in the present.

    Hope for the best..expect the worst..

    Parent

    It is pretty laughable, ... (none / 0) (#82)
    by Yman on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 03:39:43 PM EST
    ... but to be fair, it's pretty difficult to voice an assumption that exists only in your imagination.

    Parent
    Touchy, aren't we? (none / 0) (#83)
    by jondee on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 04:20:44 PM EST
    Naaaah, ... (none / 0) (#88)
    by Yman on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 07:52:34 PM EST
    ... just enjoy a good joke ...

    Parent
    Cliffnotes version (none / 0) (#28)
    by BTAL on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 11:11:58 AM EST
    Shut up and eat the crap sandwich.  Its good for you and you might actually like it.

    Parent
    why dont you (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 11:14:36 AM EST
    that pathetic response out on the parents of the child born with a cleft palate that the insurance company wont cover because it is a "pre existing contition"

    hmmm?


    Parent

    If (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 11:35:08 AM EST
    you don't think the insurance companies are already scheming weasely ways to get around pre-existing clause denial, you were likely born yesterday.

    In addition, with no MEANINGFUL cost controls built into the system, the parent of this child with a cleft palate may not be able to afford insurance anyway ESPECIALLY when we're all compelled to buy insurance.  That compulsory system, my friend is not going to bring costs down all by itself (that is a myth depending on insurance companies to do the right thing, LOL!), it's only going to ensure that more people own junk insurance.

    And this pre-existing condition nightmare only applies if the patient is on individual insurance.  If they're covered through an employer HIPAA already protects them.
    .  Scroll down and read about newborns

     

    Parent

    "born yesterday" (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 11:39:58 AM EST
    thats good.
    I would be curious what brilliant schemes you think they will come up with to "avoid" this pre existing condition thing.

    how exactly do you imagine they would do that?

    Parent

    Oops, try the link again (none / 0) (#41)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 11:36:14 AM EST
    There were more than enough (none / 0) (#32)
    by BTAL on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 11:19:25 AM EST
    anecdotal sob stories told at the summit yesterday.

     

    Parent

    and clearly (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 11:20:05 AM EST
    you dont give a sh!t about any of them.


    Parent
    I have both sympathy and empathy (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by BTAL on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 11:23:05 AM EST
    for anyone who finds themselves in bad situations.  There but for the grace..

    What you are doing is attempting policy via emotion and ignoring all the other facts of the matter.

    Parent

    no (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 11:28:59 AM EST
    what I am doing is explaining to you why your crap sandwich is a life of death situation for many.

    Parent
    Ok but (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by BTAL on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 11:32:27 AM EST
    this bill is not going to be saving any lives anytime soon, if at all.

    Parent
    You knwo (none / 0) (#74)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 02:48:06 PM EST
    what? Those are good things and I think they should be passed but there is a ton of crap in that bill that's really going to hurt those that voted for it and frankly there's a chance that nothing will go into effect for a long time if the GOP takes over the house and senate and especially if they take over the Presidency in 2012.

    If Obama was a smart politician he would have taken those two issues, put them in a bill and asked the house and senate to vote the bill up or down. You could bet there were would be many republicans who wouldnt dare vote against those two things.

    Parent

    "wouldnt dare vote against it?" (none / 0) (#75)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 02:50:51 PM EST
    I dont know if you noticed but there are republicans voting against bills they cosponsored.


    Parent
    Well (none / 0) (#76)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 02:56:16 PM EST
    there are a ton of stupid republicans but I bet he could even get Olympia Snowe to vote to end recission. Don't you?

    Parent
    I dont honestly know (none / 0) (#77)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 03:00:03 PM EST
    I have been making that argument for months.  take things like anti trust exemption out and make the stupid republicans explain in public why they are against it.

    but I dont know.  they have fox news and world nut daily to create any reality they need.


    Parent

    Olympia Snowe (none / 0) (#78)
    by CST on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 03:09:04 PM EST
    voted to say that the mandate was unconstitutional - despite the fact that she had previously voted for a bill with a mandate, out of the committee.

    I wouldn't really put anything past them.

    Parent

    And finger pointing (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by cal1942 on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 11:09:53 AM EST
    there should be.

    The GOP wants a broken system to prevail for ideological reasons and the public has every right to know that.

    Parent

    if they didnt see it (none / 0) (#42)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 11:37:26 AM EST
    yesterday in the vacant stares of the dead eyes of the republicans I dont know what it will take.


    Parent
    Ha. It is clear that the more (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by Cream City on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 01:57:09 PM EST
    that they showed how ticked they were, the more that I was cheering Pelosi.  Diametrically opposite reactions from them and from me.

    This video is a litmus test of compassionate conservativism and ought to come with an applause-o-meter whose scores on Congressional viewers could be posted for all voters to see . . . along with closeups of some of those vacant stares.

    Parent

    I doubt (none / 0) (#68)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 02:01:32 PM EST
    you were alone in that

    Parent
    Pelosi calls out Obama and (none / 0) (#71)
    by oldpro on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 02:19:53 PM EST
    the Republicans...and names them.

    Appears she'll be a tough negotiator in reconciliation although her vulnerable members definitely don't want to have to vote twice on this legislation.  Wonder if she can hold it together.  She doesn't yet have the votes IMHO.

    Kabuki.

    Rahm and Nancy will "work it out" (none / 0) (#87)
    by BTAL on Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 05:16:48 PM EST
    Rahm and Pelosi meet at 5 p.m.


    A day after President Obama's bipartisan summit, the White House is already moving in to referee the health care debate in Congress. White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel is scheduled to sit-down at the Capitol with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi at 5 p.m.

    In comments earlier in the day, Pelosi put the onus of passing a health care on the Senate, saying Democrats would move on legislation that requires a "simple majority" in the Senate and that Majority Leader Harry Reid "will see what he can get the votes for, and then we'll go from there."

    http://www.politico.com/livepulse/0210/Rahm_and_Pelosi_meet_at_5_pm.html