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Tuesday Afternoon Open Thread

I'm off to the jail in the foothills -- it's right before the Eisenhower tunnel. Should be a beautiful drive, I'm looking forward to it.

Here's an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    sun is finally shining (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by CST on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 12:17:08 PM EST
    but not before the storm dumped over 10 inches of rain in Boston and reaked some serious havoc.

    Pretty much everyone has had some amount of basement flooding.  Glad my street doesn't look like this.  Or this - which is usually a very busy street.  I got very lucky.  I live in a neighborhood that was hit very hard, but just uphill of the more severe flooding.  And the train station nearest to my house became the new beginning of the line for a little while since the station just past it - going away from the city - was flooded.

    They did end up having to dump some raw sewage into the harbor yesterday.  The public health officials hoping it gets "diluted" by rainwater (reminds me of a saying from my old environmental engineering prof - "dilution is not the solution to polution").

    Ten inches! (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Zorba on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 12:58:06 PM EST
    That's some serious rain!  OTOH, of it were snow, that would have been about 100 inches. (Ouch!)  Did Boston get the massive power outages that they got in CT, NY, NJ, PA?

    Parent
    no kidding! (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by CST on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 01:26:09 PM EST
    Not as bad as those states, but we have had some issues.  Most of the power problems were on the south shore and the cape.

    I have yet to talk to a single person who hasn't had at least some flooding in their house.  Although thats not as bad as this:

    "In many Boston neighborhoods, backed-up sewers began spilling into residents' homes, according to the Boston Water and Sewer Commission. Coradean Lavergne, 52, said she smelled the problem before she saw it. Lavergne opened her bathroom door in her Victory Road apartment in Dorchester and found sewage spilling onto the floor."

    Parent

    Eeeeewww! (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by Zorba on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 01:35:01 PM EST
    Sewage in the houses!  That is going to be a mess to clean up.  Not to mention the possible public health concerns.

    Parent
    It makes me quite happy about the (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by nycstray on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 01:35:56 PM EST
    massive leaks in my 2 rooms!

    Parent
    no kidding (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by CST on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 01:40:51 PM EST
    I feel like I dodged a bullet.  This lady lives in my neighborhood.

    Parent
    About 3 years back, (none / 0) (#117)
    by scribe on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 04:04:15 PM EST
    the city where I then lived had a downpour of three inches in one hour.  The sewers all backed up and my building had 22 inches of water in the basement.  I measured.  Sewers backing up like that are a feature of older cities with unitary sewer systems.  I wrote about this problem and the challenge it presents to our society - a challenge we are faling abysmally - in this older diary.

    22 inches of nasty rainwater mixed with raw sewage and what the sanitary engineers call "grit" - the sand, dirt and harder items that don't dissolve in water but get carried along with the flow.  I have chest waders, so I could get around without any problem, but it was a gawdaful mess.  The basement was full of floating storage containers.

    Thankfully, a friend ran a construction company and loaned me a big gasoline powered pump - the 5 horsepower and a six-inch diameter hose big kind (and the truck to carry it in) - but it still took 14 hours of pumping with that and overnight with the smaller submersible electric pump and the tide going out to get all the water out of the basement.

    That was just the start of it - we then had to sanitize the place.  Bleach and wet mop and dust masks and being thankful there was so much water because it diluted the sewage very thinly.  And all the stuff in the basement that wasn't sealed in waterproof containers or up off the floor (we used the basement for storage) was ruined.  One neighbor lost thousands of dollars of professional materials;  I lost some soft goods and books.

    And then we had to rip out all the drywall that had been wet, and replace a bunch of wiring.  All the wall sockets had been submerged - I still thank myself for taking the minute to flip all the breakers when I saw the water start coming in.  A business down the street went up in flames when the water hit the power panel.  Firemen wading through hip-deep nasty sewer water to put out a burning building....  We still got some mold, so we had to rip more out - insulation, too - and repaint everything after redoing it all.

    We were fortunate because out building's flood insurance covered it and FEMA was pretty helpful, though I don't recall whether we got any actual money from FEMA.  And no one got hurt.

    I now live well up the side of a hill.

    Parent

    Scribe, at least (5.00 / 1) (#145)
    by Zorba on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 04:59:38 PM EST
    nobody was hurt, despite the massive damage.  It seems to me that aging sewers are just a small part of our aging infrastructure problems.  Aging sewers.  Aging bridges.  Aging water treatment and water delivery systems.  In the DC area, they have the aging Metro system, which is continually breaking down.  And so on.  We lacked the foresight to have fixed these problems long ago, and now we're paying the piper.

    Parent
    There's plenty of money running around (5.00 / 0) (#150)
    by scribe on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 05:15:16 PM EST
    and plenty of people needing work, and plenty of knowledge on how to fix these problems.  

    We're going to heck in a handbasket because TPTB have decided that bailing out degenerate gambler junkies is a better use of that money than benefitting the society that produced it in the first place, and because those same PTB don't give a rat's a*s about the people who need the work.

    Parent

    Why do you hate the banksters? (5.00 / 0) (#153)
    by jbindc on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 05:17:30 PM EST
    Don't you know they have fundraisers to attend (and buying politicians ain't cheap), children to send to Choate, and summer homes in the Hamptons?

    Parent
    I thought that at least (none / 0) (#169)
    by Zorba on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 06:11:03 PM EST
    some of the money being thrown around was supposed to go to infrastructure projects, both to upgrade said infrastructure and to put more people to work.  Or maybe I just dreamed it.  

    Parent
    It's insane... (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by kdog on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 01:05:51 PM EST
    in the NE...I've hardly had the chance to be my over-commenting self we've been so busy slinging pumps...bossman is getting paid this month....big time.  We've almost sold through ten thousand pumps in 2 days...the factory can't ship 'em fast enough.

    I must say bossman spread the love this time...I just got greased with some tix for Alicia Keyes on St. Pats at the Garden, nice seats too. I'm psyched, not a show I'd pay to see on my own but one I'm sure I will enjoy.  I'm bringing my niece as a reward for kickin' arse in school and being an all-around super young lady.

    So I guess I should thank mother nature for this crazy storm....one man's disaster is another's goldmine.

    Parent

    I guess it's really true (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by Zorba on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 01:36:00 PM EST
    what they say:  Every cloud has a silver lining. ;-)

    Parent
    Ha! That would be (5.00 / 1) (#171)
    by JamesTX on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 06:41:50 PM EST
    a good choice for me, kdog! I don't "sell" because I prefer high stress broke to higher stress absolutely broke. I wouldn't be able to sell prime real estate in Manhattan for 5 cents a square foot. In fact, I probably couldn't give it away. A dear friend of mind and I share that rather distinct talent. When people see me or when I speak, there is some automatic circuit activated in their brains that says *DON'T BUY*. We call it "amsirahc" -- the opposite of charisma.

    Parent
    I hope you are on (none / 0) (#8)
    by vml68 on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 01:19:53 PM EST
    commission....when business is good.

    Parent
    Nah... (5.00 / 2) (#22)
    by kdog on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 01:39:25 PM EST
    they've asked me if I wanted to go outside and work for salary + commission on the road...no thanks.  Bad enough talking to half these customers, I don't wanna have to buy them lunch and stroke them for business...I'll stick with the cube w/ guaranteed weekly peanuts till this gig is up.  I'll take stress-free broke over stressed-out paid.  

    Parent
    Kdog, you crack me up.... (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by vml68 on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 02:37:04 PM EST
    I'll take stress-free broke over stressed-out paid.
     

    I have never "met" anyone like you. I am more familiar with the highly stressed and expecting to be very well compensated for it crowd.

    The spousal equivalent and I got into an argument a couple weeks ago because he was upset with the amount of his raise and his bonus this year. I had to remind him that just his bonus alone put him in the top 5% of earners in this country. The funny thing is that he is not at all a materialistic man but he feels the quality of his work justifies the big $$.

    He needles me constantly that I have changed since I started reading TL. I don't feel like I have changed but that I have started paying attention to things that I really did not give much thought to before. I've never paid attention to our health insurance in terms of cost or coverage, just took it for granted that we were well covered. After reading some of the comments of posters here, I went and checked our coverage for the first time to see what kind of coverage we had and what we were paying for it.
    Both of us have been lucky so far in terms of our health, so we have not been to doctors or dentists in years. Since last year I've actually used our free dental and health checkups and literally had to twist his arm to do the same.

    Aside from health care, there are so many other topics/posters/comments here that remind me that ometimes we get so caught up our little world that we get tunnel vision.

    Parent

    Im with you (5.00 / 2) (#54)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 02:43:51 PM EST
    I like my interaction with kdog if for no other reason he is the only person I know without a checking account.


    Parent
    And I'll hold the line... (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by kdog on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 03:10:41 PM EST
    till the day I die Capt...take that to the bank!

    Parent
    I'm the same way... (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by kdog on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 02:48:03 PM EST
    sometimes we get so caught up our little world that we get tunnel vision.

    Just a different tunnel:)  It is part of what makes Talkleft so great, so many perspectives outside our respective tunnels.  And one is often amazed at how much we all have in common...me and your man are the same when it comes to using our health insurance.

    Now dental insurance, I wish I had some of that action, that I'd use...but I'm skeptical of these fly by night plans for individuals.  I hit up the dental school for reduced cost fixin' of my grill.

    Parent

    Salesmen are born not made... (none / 0) (#29)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 01:52:44 PM EST
    Give it a shot, you might like it!

    Parent
    I think I'm too honest... (none / 0) (#34)
    by kdog on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 02:05:27 PM EST
    to pull it off...the NY/NJ plumbing supply business gets a 'lil shady Jim, a 'lil back-stabby....my soul is stained enough from my small part.

    When I wanna be cuthroat I gamble or play ball:)

    Parent

    I sold for 30 (none / 0) (#139)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 04:46:36 PM EST
    years and never had to lie about my product or company..... That's what made me.

    Parent
    There are a few like you.... (none / 0) (#142)
    by kdog on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 04:50:47 PM EST
    my friend, they are a pleasure to assist in sell sell selling.

    I bend over backwards for the good guys....all 2 or 3 of 'em:)

    Parent

    sweet! (none / 0) (#18)
    by CST on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 01:35:29 PM EST
    glad to hear something good is coming of it.

    I bet all the kids who had school cancelled are pretty happy too.

    I'm just glad at this point that I'm a renter.  Basement flooding not caused by me = landlord's problem.

    Parent

    I feel terrible... (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by kdog on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 01:45:48 PM EST
    for the desperate homeowners the factory refers to us...many many tales of woe.  Damage from falling trees + no power + basement under water.  It s*cks....but still paradise compared to Haiti.  

    The battery back-up pumps are sold out throughout our territiory...we can't get our distributors anymore of those for a couple weeks minimum.  For the people with no power all that is left to do is light a candle and start bailing unless they have a generator.

    Unless our competitors were better prepared for this, but I don't think anyone was.  Everybody was cutting back on inventory and manpower because of the economy...now inventory and manpower is desperately needed.

    Parent

    Hope you don't have anything (none / 0) (#28)
    by jbindc on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 01:50:45 PM EST
    in the basement that gets ruined.  That wouldn't even be covered under your renter's insurance (if you have it) - you would probably need a separate rider for water damage.

    Parent
    nope (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by CST on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 01:59:49 PM EST
    just the laundry machines.  In a way we might have inadvertantly helped out the landlord as well.  After we caused some of our own minor flooding with the drain issues, he moved some of his stuff out too.

    Parent
    I think it's telling (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by andgarden on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 01:24:34 PM EST
    that the CBO score hasn't been released yet.

    I don't think the votes are there.

    Agreed (5.00 / 2) (#50)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 02:41:35 PM EST
    They wouldn't be resorting to this idiotic "deem and pass" maneuver if they were.  I don't know who "deem and pass" is supposed to fool, but any congresscritter who votes for it thinking he/she is thereby going to escape criticism for voting for the health care bill is too stupid to be in Congress-- and that's saying a lot!

    Parent
    "deem and pass" (none / 0) (#59)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 02:49:03 PM EST
    always sounded uncomfortably bowel related to me.

    Parent
    Hmmm. I'm a political ignoramus. (none / 0) (#61)
    by Dr Molly on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 02:52:44 PM EST
    Can you tell me how those two things are related? Thanks.

    Parent
    It was promised friday night (none / 0) (#106)
    by andgarden on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 03:55:40 PM EST
    or during the day Monday. Thus far, radio silence.

    Parent
    But how is that an indicator (none / 0) (#119)
    by Dr Molly on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 04:05:36 PM EST
    of whether the votes are there or not?

    Parent
    A delay could mean lots of things (none / 0) (#126)
    by andgarden on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 04:22:17 PM EST
    but the most obvious to me is that they want to release a package with majority support, and they don't have it yet.

    Parent
    Thanks. (none / 0) (#128)
    by Dr Molly on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 04:26:21 PM EST
    Why doesn't it mean that the CBO (none / 0) (#65)
    by observed on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 02:56:44 PM EST
    scoring sucks, relatively speaking?

    Parent
    Does the CBO even (none / 0) (#85)
    by coast on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 03:28:49 PM EST
    have anything to score?  I thought deal making was still going on.

    Parent
    Avedon Carol nails "healthcare" kibuki (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by trillian on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 01:25:00 PM EST
    The Democrats have done everything they can to keep the Republicons "relevant" so they didn't have to pass a good bill - or even a "compromise" bill, as Glennzilla pointed out last August: "The attempt to attract GOP support was the pretext which Democrats used to compromise continuously and water down the bill. But -- given the impossibility of achieving that goal -- isn't it fairly obvious that a desire for GOP support wasn't really the reason the Democrats were constantly watering down their own bill? Given the White House's central role in negotiating a secret deal with the pharmaceutical industry, its betrayal of Obama's clear promise to conduct negotiations out in the open (on C-SPAN no less), Rahm's protection of Blue Dogs and accompanying attacks on progressives, and the complete lack of any pressure exerted on allegedly obstructionists "centrists," it seems rather clear that the bill has been watered down, and the "public option" jettisoned, because that's the bill they want -- this was the plan all along." That's still the state of play.

    http://sideshow.me.uk/smar10.htm#1003141848

    this IS cnn (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 01:28:22 PM EST
    any questions?

    THIS IS CNN?.... If I didn't get independent confirmation of this, I honestly would have assumed the announcement was some elaborate practical joke. Alas, it's true.

       

    Prominent conservative commentator and RedState.com editor Erick Erickson will join CNN as a political contributor, appearing primarily on CNN's new show John King, USA, the network announced Tuesday.

        Erickson, a self described "obsessive news junkie" who grew up in Dubai and rural Louisiana, will also provide perspective and commentary on other programs across the network. [...]

        "Erick's a perfect fit for John King, USA, because not only is he an agenda-setter whose words are closely watched in Washington, but as a person who still lives in small-town America, Erick is in touch with the very people John hopes to reach," said Sam Feist, CNN political director and vice president of Washington-based programming. "With Erick's exceptional knowledge of politics, as well as his role as a conservative opinion leader, he will add an important voice to CNN's ideologically diverse group of political contributors."

    This is easily the worst decision CNN has ever made. That the network probably reviewed Erickson's work before hiring him, and offered him a job anyway, suggests CNN's professional standards for what constitutes "an important voice" have all but disappeared.



    you don't know the half of it (none / 0) (#21)
    by kmblue on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 01:39:24 PM EST
    see echidne of the snakes's blog for his comments about women.

    Another Glenn Beck is born.

    Parent

    oh I know (none / 0) (#24)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 01:40:54 PM EST
    he is glen beck with a brain

    Parent
    which btw (none / 0) (#25)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 01:41:17 PM EST
    only makes him more dangerous.


    Parent
    CNN is collapsing (none / 0) (#31)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 01:55:59 PM EST
    they want some disagreements rather than echo chambers.... smart move.

    Parent
    Erickson is the chamber (5.00 / 2) (#35)
    by waldenpond on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 02:08:22 PM EST
    Erickson is no different than Castellanos, Hemmer, Beck, Dobbs... I won't go on.  I'm sure you get the point.  He's a perfect fit for CNN.  This is a non-story.

    Parent
    Agreed (none / 0) (#52)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 02:43:19 PM EST
    They've had him on a lot anyway.  I don't get the hysterics.

    Parent
    well (none / 0) (#69)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 03:02:58 PM EST
    Im not exactly hysterical.  
    I was just reposting a blog post.
    I never ever ever watch CNN anyway and that wont change.  but IMO having him on is different than hiring him full time.
    not only because of the exposure but the cred it gives him.

    Parent
    for example, this former gem (none / 0) (#78)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 03:21:57 PM EST
    Erickson calls Michelle Obama a "marxist harpy wife." In a blog post headlined, "Is Obama Shagging Hookers Behind the Media's Back?" Erickson stated, "I assume not. I assume that Obama's marxist harpy wife would go Lorena Bobbit on him should he even think about it, but I ask the question to make one simple point: Barack Obama, like Elliott Spitzer, is a creation of the liberal media and, as a result, could be a serial killing transvestite and the media would turn a blind eye."


    Parent
    Michelle is apparently fair game (5.00 / 2) (#111)
    by MKS on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 04:00:13 PM EST
    Not much concern about that--even here....

    Parent
    can you imagine (4.00 / 3) (#116)
    by CST on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 04:04:09 PM EST
    the public response to that if it had been Laura Bush?

    Even here.

    Parent

    "even"? (4.00 / 3) (#133)
    by jondee on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 04:35:04 PM EST
    when was there ever?

    The misogyny detectors are in the off position when it's Michelle.

    Parent

    Bottom Of the Heap (none / 0) (#174)
    by squeaky on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 07:22:33 PM EST
    A new study from the Center for Community Economic Development indicates that single black women, even in their peak earning years, have a median net worth of only $5

    As reported by the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, the study also found that single white women between 36 and 49 have a median wealth of $42,600 -- well below the figure for single white men. But the finding that black women have virtually no assets at all stunned even the study's participants.

    [snip]

    Even black women who were married or in a long-term relationship had a median net worth of only $31,500, compared to a figure of $167,500 for white women.



    Parent
    Luckily (none / 0) (#187)
    by jbindc on Wed Mar 17, 2010 at 10:21:01 AM EST
    None of those stats apply to Michelle Obama. She's been very fortunate and has made good life choices.

    Parent
    It's disgusting (none / 0) (#121)
    by jbindc on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 04:12:36 PM EST
    But it's an old blog.  Personally, I've never heard of the guy, and I'm sure most people haven't either, so to expect outrage for something no one has read or heard about is a bit much.

    That said, after seeing the way the MCM and bloogers treat female candidates, and it goes unchallenged, even by the Democratic Party ("the party of women (cough)") then no, I'm not shocked by anything anymore.

    Parent

    Disgusting. (5.00 / 1) (#122)
    by Cream City on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 04:13:08 PM EST
    That just cancelled out the conversation I had with three reasonable conservatives that gave me hope.

    But thanks, as now -- I never had heard of this guy -- have reason to write CNN as well as evidence, in this quote, to ask CNN how it considers this a valuable voice to give an even larger audience.

    Disgusting.

    Parent

    That's actually a pretty typically mindless (none / 0) (#95)
    by observed on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 03:39:57 PM EST
    blogger speculation--right or left.
    I seem to remember some lefty bloggers speculating about someone's made up child rape problem not so long ago.


    Parent
    yes (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by CST on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 04:02:27 PM EST
    it is very typical of mindless blogger speculation.

    However, this is no longer just a "blogger", it's now a CNN employee.

    I certainly don't remember those lefty bloggers getting full time gigs at CNN.

    Parent

    Who are the young talking heads who (none / 0) (#125)
    by observed on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 04:17:24 PM EST
    fill the airwaves, from both left and right?
    Are some of them bloggers? It's just sickening to see how all political coverage has turned into "Crossfire".
    CNN hired Chuck Todd, btw----isn't he nominally a lefty?

    Parent
    CNN hired Chuck Todd??? (5.00 / 1) (#179)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 11:00:51 PM EST
    What?

    And no, he's not even remotely a lefty. What are you talking about?

    Parent

    I don't know (none / 0) (#129)
    by CST on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 04:27:36 PM EST
    but if you don't see the difference between occasionally being interviewed on tv and getting a full time job at cnn I don't know what to tell you.

    And being a lefty is not equivalent to telling rape jokes, so I'm really not sure what your point about Chuck Todd is.  What does he have to do with those bloggers you mentioned earlier? unless there is something that he personally said that is equivalent to that and I'm just not aware of it.

    Parent

    I"m tired of the outrage game. (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by observed on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 04:34:14 PM EST
    Erickson isn't fit to be hired because he has no qualifications----just as Ezra Klein has no real qualifications to be bloviating on  the airwaves.
    I actually misread your comment, thinking you were saying there aren't lefty bloggers hired by the networks. Now I see what you are getting at.

    Parent
    CST, it's not (5.00 / 1) (#180)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 11:02:37 PM EST
    not, not a full-time job.  He's a contributor.  They have a whole stable of them who show up from time to time for their roundtables.  He's not being hired as a correspondent.

    Parent
    "Speculation" (5.00 / 1) (#130)
    by jondee on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 04:28:58 PM EST
    meaning something akin to rational thought went into that?

    Lets see, "Marxist" is, through long association, generally conflated by many with 'traitorous revolutionary'..and "harpy", well, lets just say that if that term were ever applied at this site to a certain former Senator from New York, the indignation would be like rolling thunder.

    Parent

    Nope. (5.00 / 6) (#131)
    by Dr Molly on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 04:33:59 PM EST
    My indignation at that is the same no matter what woman it's applied to.


    Parent
    Yeah (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by jondee on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 02:09:21 PM EST
    they want to become Fair and Balanced and insure all points of view..


    Parent
    they want some of those (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 02:20:07 PM EST
    teabagger eyes.  thats what they want.  they wont get them.  but thats what they want.


    Parent
    Well did you evah! Iggy Pop, Hollies for HOF (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by Ellie on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 01:54:57 PM EST
    The Hollies, Jimmy Cliff, Genesis, ABBA and Iggy Pop's Stooges accepted induction into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame on Monday -- a ceremony almost as notable for who wasn't there as who was.

    Iggy Pop and Debbie Harry's rendition of Cole Porter's What a Swell Party This Is is almost as swellegant as Frank & Der Bingle's version from High Society. (Big upgrade from when Iggy was Livin on Dog Food (So what! Dog food composes my wife!))

    Here's The Hollies' Pay You Back with Interest - gotta love a tune with a campanilist! (I've swiped the high-hat at the end too many times to count.)

    JIMMY!!!!! (The Harder They Come)

    I won't even pretend I give a sh*te about ABBA but they seem very nice. Genesis too.

    I hit y'all... (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by kdog on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 02:30:57 PM EST
    with some classic Genesis on another thread...Get 'Em Out By Friday.  Check out the lyrics too gang....wild stuff.  Here's a taste....

    This is an announcement from Genetic Control:
    "It is my sad duty to inform you of a four foot restriction on
    humanoid height."

    Extract from coversation of Joe Ordinary in Local Puborama
    "I hear the directors of Genetic Control have been buying all the
    properties that have recently been sold, taking risks oh so bold.
    It's said now that people will be shorter in height,
    they can fit twice as many in the same building site.
    (they say it's alright),
    Beginning with the tenants of the town of Harlow,
    in the interest of humanity, they've been told they must go,
    told they must go-go-go-go."



    Parent
    Most Incredible Band. (5.00 / 2) (#91)
    by Dr Molly on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 03:32:35 PM EST
    I saw a video recently from Elvis Costello's Sundance show where he had brought together the most incredible dream band:

    drums - Levon Helms
    piano - Allen Toussaint
    guitar - Elvis Costello
    guitar - Richard Thompson
    bass - Nick Lowe
    vocals - Ray La Montagne

    I thought I'd died and gone to heaven.


    Parent

    That's a great show... (none / 0) (#101)
    by kdog on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 03:51:01 PM EST
    Elvis puts on...many a good performance.  I need to check on demand for the one youe describe Doc!

    Not to nitpick, but the man is a god to me, Mr. Levon Helm, no "S":)

    Parent

    Ha - I was struggling with (none / 0) (#110)
    by Dr Molly on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 03:58:59 PM EST
    whether to add the 's' or not, wasn't sure. Yes, he is a god. And one of the songs they played was The Weight, I'm sure you know that one.

    Parent
    Every word... (none / 0) (#115)
    by kdog on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 04:02:48 PM EST
    every fill:)

    Parent
    I'm massively DL'ing Costello's Spectacle (none / 0) (#103)
    by Ellie on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 03:51:42 PM EST
    ... from On Demand. It's one of those series I actually demand.

    Parent
    omg (none / 0) (#32)
    by lilburro on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 01:58:33 PM EST
    ABBA pwns all of those bands.

    Parent
    You've never listened to... (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by kdog on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 04:01:19 PM EST
    Peter Gabriel era Genesis I take it...it ain't "Sussudio"...not that there is anything wrong with "Sussudio":)

    Give "Foxtrot" a listen...or "Nursery Cryme", "Selling England By The Pound", "The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway"...all excellent too.  You will bug out.

    Parent

    Yup. Just take out (none / 0) (#123)
    by scribe on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 04:13:27 PM EST
    "Nursery Cryme", drop the needle and let it go.  

    Yesterday, German radio ran a recording of a live concert by Peter Gabriel;  I think it was taped in Berlin back in the 90s.  Blew.  Me.  Away.  He's supposed to be touring again.

    Parent

    He is... (none / 0) (#136)
    by kdog on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 04:39:21 PM EST
    thats why he missed the hall of fame shindig, or at least thats the reason given.

    It's definitely not everyday listening...too heavy.  But every record collection needs a little old school Genesis to dust off and spin once in a blue. Intricate story-telling...and I can only describe the music as medieval space-age.

    Awesome album covers too.


    Parent

    I like Selling England by the Pound (none / 0) (#124)
    by Ellie on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 04:13:41 PM EST
    ... and Lamb but don't know much beyond those. (OTOH, I have pretty much everything from the ones I did link for.)

    Thought I'd leave linkage to the experts. :-)

    Parent

    I gotcha... (5.00 / 1) (#140)
    by kdog on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 04:46:46 PM EST
    I had to respond to my pal burro when he said ABBA owns all the other bands...that statement could not stand unrebutted:)  I had to assume he wasn't familar...when you say Genesis most people only think of the Collins led 80's version...who were cool in a very different, pop-ish 80's sorta way.

     

    Parent

    Sh*t... (none / 0) (#144)
    by kdog on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 04:59:26 PM EST
    hard to tell me Iggy and The Stooges don't own this class one line into Raw Power.

    I'm a street walking cheetah with a hide full of napalm

    Parent

    Ah (none / 0) (#156)
    by lilburro on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 05:31:29 PM EST
    you forced my hand kdog.....  FERNANDO.  

    It's true though, I have very limited listening experience with any of the other bands inducted today, although I do like Iggy.  

    PS. I'm no Mr. :P

    Parent

    I'm sorry Ms. B... (none / 0) (#166)
    by kdog on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 06:01:23 PM EST
    my fault...and Abba is good, if smothered in cheese:)

    Parent
    I was not sure you were gay (none / 0) (#38)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 02:14:49 PM EST
    until now

    Parent
    bwaha (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by lilburro on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 02:32:39 PM EST
    yes you are right...and yeah I love ABBA.  Here's an interesting fact:

    Most of ABBA's videos (and ABBA: The Movie) were directed by Lasse Hallström, who would later direct the films My Life as a Dog, The Cider House Rules and Chocolat.

    I also really like My Life as a Dog.

    I do not understand the new gay obsession though ...Lady GaGa.  I mean, I kind of get it, I just think the music is pretty bad.  She makes ABBA look like Bob Dylan, lyrically.

    Parent

    My life as a dog..... (5.00 / 2) (#51)
    by vml68 on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 02:43:09 PM EST
    is a great movie. I've watched it at least a dozen times.

    Parent
    I only saw it once (none / 0) (#60)
    by lilburro on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 02:50:41 PM EST
    and need to see it again.  Bawling at 3 in the morning while watching TCM.

    Parent
    Tell me about it. (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by vml68 on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 02:57:31 PM EST
    I still get choked up no matter how many times I watch it.
    Chocolat is a great movie too. We've watched that a few times because my guy "loooves" Juliette Binoche.

    Parent
    Chocolat: (5.00 / 2) (#84)
    by brodie on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 03:25:33 PM EST
    perfectly charming French film, even if done by a Swede.

    And Juliette Binoche ...  oh my ...  

    Parent

    Juliette Binoche is easy to love. (5.00 / 1) (#152)
    by scribe on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 05:16:57 PM EST
    And, from the interviews I've seen, smart as a whip, too.

    Parent
    well (none / 0) (#49)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 02:39:10 PM EST
    I love Abba.  but I also love the Stooges.
    and I also dont get Lady Gaga.

    Parent
    I think (none / 0) (#53)
    by CST on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 02:43:41 PM EST
    Lady Gaga = Madonna, 20 years later

    I really don't like most of Lady Gaga's songs, but that friggen song "Bad Romance" is super catchy, and I will admit, it's made it to the ipod.

    Parent

    I like (none / 0) (#67)
    by lilburro on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 02:57:50 PM EST
    Poker Face, Just Dance, and all that.  It's hard to imagine buying the CD though.  They all sound pretty similar.

    Parent
    actually when (none / 0) (#55)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 02:44:50 PM EST
    she was "maybe a man" I was more interested

    Parent
    that was (none / 0) (#62)
    by lilburro on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 02:54:09 PM EST
    Gawker's Brian Moylan's obsession right?  I don't know most of his articles I skip because I find him unfunny & obnoxious.

    I was beginning to find Lady GaGa interesting...I had gotten over my hate for her absurd Kermit costume, had enjoyed her Oprah appearance, had listened to "Poker Face" 20 times on a road trip...and then she made a music video that blatantly ripped off Tarantino so now I am confused again.  

    Parent

    forgot (none / 0) (#39)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 02:15:05 PM EST
    :-)

    Parent
    Can't even work up a shrüg so roll with that n/t (none / 0) (#48)
    by Ellie on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 02:39:07 PM EST
    the (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by lilburro on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 02:55:20 PM EST
    umlaut over your "u" suggests some love for my European friends...

    Parent
    I'm from Yerp so yeah, but I don't care about ABBA (none / 0) (#77)
    by Ellie on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 03:21:48 PM EST
    ... ZOMG! Outrageous, I know.

    I like Gaga's new one with Beyonce, though. I think she's fun to drag-race on the vid to dance-club expressway but the music's irritating outside of a spin-class.

    Parent

    I like that one (none / 0) (#80)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 03:23:01 PM EST
    for the production qualities.

    is that like liking playboy for the articles?

    Parent

    LOL I know ... without the visuals Gaga would be (none / 0) (#99)
    by Ellie on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 03:45:26 PM EST
    ... Caca.

    Parent
    hahaha! that is funny n/t (none / 0) (#102)
    by lilburro on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 03:51:14 PM EST
    Dunno what a (none / 0) (#43)
    by brodie on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 02:30:36 PM EST
    campanilist is, but if that's what they're playing on Pay You Back, then it's just groovy with me.  

    The Hollies:  easily one of the most underappreciated Brit Invasion bands, who should have done much better in the US.  Can't believe Pay didn't chart higher.  Another great tune which barely made a dent over here was "I'm Alive" from the 1965 period.  Outstanding and talented group, even with an uneven output, which managed to survive the major loss of Graham Nash.

    ABBA:  Gotta give 'em their due.  A couple of talented songwriters to go with a couple of talented singers, cranking out catchy and at times even touching tunes, and they sold in the hundreds of millions of units.  The secret guilty pleasure for many, pre-RRHoF.

    Parent

    I still cant ever hear (none / 0) (#56)
    by jondee on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 02:45:24 PM EST
    Carrie Ann without it becoming summertime somewhere      in my mind -- and if there were ever any doubt, that marimba solo always puts the icing on it.

    Parent
    I was delighted to read (none / 0) (#71)
    by brodie on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 03:10:00 PM EST
    only many years later in the internet era, that Carrie Anne was inspired by a few of the band members "friendship" with the lovely young Brit singer Marianne Faithfull.

    Parent
    The Marianne of that (none / 0) (#120)
    by jondee on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 04:12:29 PM EST
    era could've been my Ruby Tuesday..Wednesday and Thursday.

    The girl certainly knew where the best parties were,  that's for sure.

    Parent

    Hollies tunes were so impeccably produced (none / 0) (#68)
    by Ellie on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 02:58:04 PM EST
    Mixologists and sound monkeys appreciate that!

    Campanilist: bell ringer. Lovely. It's why I linked to Pay You Back with Interest.

    Parent

    Google vs. China (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by CST on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 02:24:07 PM EST
    fascinating stuff.  Apparently today google dropped it's censoring in China.  Although they also won't publicly admit that they aren't censoring anymore.

    I wonder who blinks first.  I have a feeling this is the end of google in China.  But we'll see.

    I will say (none / 0) (#42)
    by CST on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 02:29:01 PM EST
    If this was intentional (and I have a very hard time believing it wasn't no matter what google says), I like the tactic, even thought they are breaking Chinese law.  Civil disobedience in a very public forum, on a massive scale.

    Parent
    apparently (none / 0) (#46)
    by lilburro on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 02:35:26 PM EST
    Facebook was more visited than Google this past month (in the US).  And it's not the top search engine in every country.

    For me a nice reminder that every empire falls.  I like Google, it's very useful (obviously!!) but it's too easily manipulated.

    Parent

    Transparency (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by jbindc on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 04:25:25 PM EST
    Apparently, the administration, in all its transparency, has ignored more FOIA requests in its first year, than the GWB administration did in its last year.

    Major agencies cited that exemption to refuse records at least 70,779 times during the 2009 budget year, compared with 47,395 times during President George W. Bush's final full budget year, according to annual FOIA reports filed by federal agencies.

    And wait!  There's more!

    The AP review comes on the heels of another bit of government transparency news: that the Obama Administration has threatened to veto a congressional intelligence bill because it objects to efforts to increase intelligence oversight.

    Among other things, the proposed legislation would subject intelligence agencies to General Accountability Office review. US intelligence agencies are currently immune from review by the Congressional auditing office.

    Gosh - I'm glad we got such a liberal lion who wanted to clean up Washington and promised more transparency in his administration!

    Sounds pretty transparent to me! (none / 0) (#134)
    by observed on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 04:35:17 PM EST
    Clear as mud! (none / 0) (#135)
    by jbindc on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 04:38:00 PM EST
    The sky is so weird (5.00 / 3) (#137)
    by Jen M on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 04:40:31 PM EST
    Its like, blue!

    A day for driving about with all the windows down

    yeah (5.00 / 0) (#143)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 04:55:11 PM EST
    someone walked into work this morning and said

    "what is that big yellow thing floating in the sky?!?"

    Parent

    Heh.. Pick me up. (none / 0) (#146)
    by desertswine on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 05:00:50 PM EST
    makes me long (none / 0) (#162)
    by Jen M on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 05:52:17 PM EST
    for a motorcycle!

    Parent
    got (none / 0) (#163)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 05:54:05 PM EST
    one!!

    Parent
    Pick me up? (none / 0) (#175)
    by Jen M on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 07:30:53 PM EST
    Essay question (none / 0) (#1)
    by Dadler on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 12:11:04 PM EST
    Pretend I'm an alien visiting earth for the first time.  I'm confused by this paper and coinage called money, having never heard or even thought of the concept before.  Explain to me what money is and how it is used to make our planet a better place (or a worse place, if that's your opinion).


    Makes the world a better place... (none / 0) (#7)
    by kdog on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 01:15:09 PM EST
    Mr. Martian, by making barter an easier proposition...like say you need a carpenter, but all the carpenters in the 'hood don't need your particular skills or goods...a system of currency is a godsend for ya.

    It becomes a negative when the people start believing the means of ease of trade, the pieces of paper and coin, becomes an end unto itself...when the start believing the currency holds tangible value instead of being a mere tool of convenience...which probably happened a week after the concept of currency was invented.  We are human beings Mr. Martian...dumb beasts with occasional moments of genius and greatness:)

    Parent

    How do we explain (none / 0) (#13)
    by jondee on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 01:28:48 PM EST
    all the fools who HAVE money, then?

    Parent
    Maybe we're all fools (none / 0) (#14)
    by jondee on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 01:31:42 PM EST
    and the ultimate "soon" always comes sooner than we think or plan for.

    Parent
    Money is a storage device (none / 0) (#27)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 01:49:43 PM EST
    Bob would like his house painted and would trade painter Jim 20 hours of his music and singing for the labor and paint but Jim doesn't need music and singing so he has Bob give him "Credits" to use to buy music when he needs it.

    Remember, all scifi called money "Credits."

    Parent

    Do you understand the concept of 'want'? (none / 0) (#57)
    by ruffian on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 02:46:21 PM EST
    Money is Power (none / 0) (#182)
    by dead dancer on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 11:21:26 PM EST
    Get the money; gain the power.

    Parent
    And one you have the power (none / 0) (#183)
    by dead dancer on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 11:23:00 PM EST
    You can decide on better or worse.

    One mans better is another mans worse!

    Parent

    Obama celebrates Sunshine Week (none / 0) (#15)
    by ruffian on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 01:33:18 PM EST
    by reinforcing the Bush policies on only briefing the 'Gang of 8' on intelligence matters. Threatens a veto on the House bill that only minorly strengthens the oversight requirements.

    Threatens veto of anthrax investigation for good measure. Nice touch.

    Petraeus on DADT (none / 0) (#17)
    by jbindc on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 01:35:14 PM EST
    "The time has come" to consider repealing DADT.

    Link

    lets see (none / 0) (#37)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 02:13:08 PM EST
    who yells "betrayus" now

    Parent
    Maybe he's coming out (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by ruffian on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 03:41:40 PM EST
    That would make a few heads explode

    Parent
    The time has come to "consider" (none / 0) (#172)
    by KeysDan on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 07:06:53 PM EST
    repeal.   And, of course, we will need a study about that consideration.   This seems to reflect the memo from on high: keep em at bay with words.  

    Parent
    at least they are encouraging (none / 0) (#185)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Mar 17, 2010 at 08:26:08 AM EST
    words.  

    Parent
    True, easier to hold at bay (none / 0) (#188)
    by KeysDan on Wed Mar 17, 2010 at 12:20:52 PM EST
    with encouraging words than discouraging ones.

    Parent
    Perriello's full statement: (none / 0) (#64)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 02:56:16 PM EST
       Since the beginning of the debate on health care reform, I have maintained a pledge that I would not support any health care reform bill that includes federal funding for abortion, and I stand by that pledge today. The original House bill language (Capps Amendment) did not meet this standard, and so I opposed that language. I voted for the Stupak Amendment--the only alternative offered at the time--because it ensured no federal funding of abortions, even though it also went beyond the current federal standard (Hyde Amendment) to prevent Americans from purchasing private insurance with their own dollars.

        "As health care experts and pro-life leaders agree, the abortion language in the Senate bill upholds the Hyde Amendment standard. The Senate health care bill prevents federal taxpayer dollars from funding abortions, as the Catholic Hospital Association and legal experts have recently stated and as my own research has confirmed.

        "Furthermore, several key yet unadvertised provisions of the bill are likely to reduce the number of abortions in this country in ways that move beyond politics toward a real impact on the culture of life in our country, such as those that provide $250 million for programs to support vulnerable pregnant women and increase the adoption tax credit, also making it refundable, so that lower income families can access it fully.

        "I have tended to avoid the labels pro-life and pro-choice--often drawing ire from both sides of this debate--because I believe those labels serve to end debate rather than start us on a path towards solutions. I understand why many pro-choice groups consider the Senate language a major setback, but I made this pledge to the people I represent. Mired as we are in the issue of taxpayer dollars in this debate, we have not been discussing how this bill can reduce abortions. My hope is that, after this debate in the health care bill, lawmakers will come together to support a culture of life in their policy-making, including improving pre- and post-natal care.

        "I have plenty of serious problems with the Senate bill and, until I see the final language, I cannot take a position on final passage. But the existing language on abortion in the current Senate bill meets the pledge I made to ensure no federal funding for abortion in this health care bill."



    One question (none / 0) (#74)
    by ruffian on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 03:13:04 PM EST
    Isn't the final version of the Senate bill available for him to see? I guess he means the amendments to be passed via reconciliation.

    I think he lays out good reasoning for giving Stupak the heave-ho. Good for him.

    Parent

    Saw opening (none / 0) (#70)
    by brodie on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 03:05:14 PM EST
    episode of The Pacific last night, and have to concur with some of the disappointed early commenters and with the teevee pundit at Salon.  

    Nothing much new here, and, yes indeed, we found it difficult to follow and distinguish among the several young white characters who all seemed to look and sound alike.  Part of the reason might be perhaps that half this first episode was shot in the dark.

    It would have been helpful if the filmmakers had put names on the helmets, or occasionally added some notes on the screen, like "This is Kramer.  The guy who ran into the lovely young neighbor coming out of church in the opener."

    High quality production values though.  We'll probably give this one another episode before deciding whether to continue.

    I saw it too (none / 0) (#73)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 03:11:28 PM EST
    it didnt seem all that different from Band of Brothers in that respect to me.

    Parent
    Yep. Kill this senate bill. (none / 0) (#75)
    by brodie on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 03:19:00 PM EST
    We also noticed the Norman Rockwell in the way some of those small town scenes were shot.

    Oh well.  It's another Spielberg/Hanks production ...

    Parent

    Oops -- didn't (none / 0) (#76)
    by brodie on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 03:21:01 PM EST
    mean to write to kill this bill.  Sorry.

    Maybe kill this HBO miniseries if things don't get better, but the bill, nah, we're stuck with it -- all the way to the end of the line.  Even if it's the cemetary at the end of the line ...

    Parent

    I was wondering but (none / 0) (#82)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 03:24:54 PM EST
    you have to step softly around here. ya know?


    Parent
    These newfangled (none / 0) (#93)
    by brodie on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 03:35:49 PM EST
    computers with their fancy memory software ... more trouble than than not for me.

    Wish we had one of those features they have at some sites where you get at least 30 min to revise and extend your previous remarks.  Congress gets 24 hrs, we get nothing  ...

    Parent

    straight down the line (none / 0) (#88)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 03:30:17 PM EST
    But for the fact that the producers (none / 0) (#138)
    by scribe on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 04:44:46 PM EST
    don't have to worry about the real troops popping up and saying something inconvenient or inconsistent with the jingosm, which they did have to deal with in Band of Brothers.  Basilone got it on Iwo, and Sledge and Leckie both died in 2001.  By comparison, Winters (from Band of Brothers) was not shy and quite articulate about the downsides of war, nor were the other still surviving paratroops.

    And I'm sure they won't be showing too much about Sledge's battles with what would now be identified as PTSD, nor his second book about the psychological trauma of combat.

    I knew a man in my hometown who had been a Marine.  His job had been clearing Japanese pillboxes on Saipan with a Winchester 97 shotgun.  He was a postman who swung between the super-religiosity he'd picked up after being wounded and some fearful, howling benders.  And that was going on in the late 80s, still.

    And, FWIW, if you look back in history toward the US states where the strongest anti-Japanese feelings were in the 70s and 80s, when they were kicking out butts in the industrial sphere (back when people still cared about and there was an industrial sphere), you would find a close correspondence with the states whence came the Army National Guard divisions that fought the Japanese.  RI & Mass. (43d Div.), parts of NY, Conn. (27th Div.), Ohio (37th Div.), Michigan/Wisconsin (32d Div.), Indiana/Illinois (33d Div.), Kentucky/Tennessee (38th Div.), Calif. (40th Div.), Pacific northwest (41st Div.).  FWIW, V-J Day is still a legal holiday in Rhode Island, though they call it "Victory Day" and candy-coat it as providing another 3-day weekend in the summertime and promoting tourism.  Scratch that surface and there's still a lot of hate under there.

    I'm passing on it and, for that matter, on HBO.  They're sowing propaganda and the seeds of hate for the next war.  I've got better things to spend my money on.

    Parent

    Im glad Im not the only (5.00 / 1) (#167)
    by jondee on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 06:05:35 PM EST
    one. I hate when that happens,

    I had a good friend who was part of the force that "liberated" (the hell out of), New Guinea. He said  that experience was the closest thing he could imagine to hell on earth, in a place that he said was slightly hellish, dark side of the moon even after the fighting had died down. He was always rattled and high-strung, with a few trips to the drunk tank and other assorted mishaps, right up until the day he died.

    Another thing that the Hollywood-Pentagon complex has given short shrift to, is the REAL story of the most decorated soldier in WWII Audie Murphy, who suffered from severe PTSD symptoms for the rest of his adult life after the war.

    But, the meme emanating from on high seems to be that going into too much depth publicly about what war actually does to people, is bad for recruitment and morale. Better to emphasize the "Greatness", filial bonding experience and being all that you can be.  

    Parent

    Some of my uncles suffered (none / 0) (#176)
    by Cream City on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 07:32:13 PM EST
    for the rest of their lives, but we didn't have a name for it.  They were the ones in the worst combat -- of the six in the family who served in WWII.  Somehow, all six came back, but some brought the war with them for years.

    I've been reading up and learning up a lot lately on PTSD, watching video interviews, etc., getting ready to go hear a guest lecture (in a Vietnam War course) this week by a childhood friend I haven't seen in years, since before he went to Vietnam.

    We lost track of him for years afterward, because he never really came back in his mind for so long.  Lost his marriage and so much more.  He worked through it; he has written a book about it; he volunteers with PTSD survivors from wars since -- and we've emailed a lot about it lately.

    But it still will be hard to see him again as I'm told he still bears the emotional scars.  He was such a beautiful, sweet boy. . . .

    Parent

    "Liberated" New Guinea? (none / 0) (#178)
    by Inspector Gadget on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 09:34:48 PM EST
    Never heard that before.

    My dad was a WWII Marine. Served in the Pacific, based out of New Guinea. He fought in the battle of Peleliu. I've only heard him speak of it once, and I saw a special on TV when it reached its 50th anniversary. Lucky to come out of it with his life, but lost his right arm.

    I lived in New Guinea in 1983-84. Tabubil. We were there to help them mine the gold on the mountains. It was still very primitive at that time. Full of missionaries from just about every religion. It's an incredibly beautiful country.

    Parent

    Or at least had them address eachother by (none / 0) (#79)
    by ruffian on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 03:22:10 PM EST
    name a little more 'Hey insert last name here'. At least for an episode or two.

    Iw as pretty sure I would remember the guy in the church, but then when he got in a group, there were two or three guys that looked a lot alike. One in particular I'm not sure is him, or someone that looks a lot like him but is more outgoing and perhaps a higher rank. It was the one that was going to have to write the letters home to the parents of the fallen Marines. Is he the guy in the church?

    I hope it clears up, or it will be good as a docudrama, but not as real storytelling where you get invested in the characters.

    Parent

    I remember thinking the same (none / 0) (#81)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 03:24:07 PM EST
    thing about BofB.  I didnt get the names down until 3/4 of the way through.

    Parent
    I didn't see BofB (none / 0) (#86)
    by ruffian on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 03:28:49 PM EST
    except for one episode at a friend's house a couple of weeks ago, coincidentally. I can definitely see I will have the same problem when I rent the DVDs. that one episode was good enough to make me want to watch it all. It was a later one, post d-day when they are collecting prisoners from a house in France.

    Parent
    Maybe (none / 0) (#83)
    by jbindc on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 03:25:23 PM EST
    Because it really doesn't matter? The 3 main characters' stories could be any of the guys who served in the Pacific - it could be any of their stories.  

    Back in college, I used to work part time behind the counter in a deli/butcher shop.  We had a customer come in every week - a really nice old man.  Since this was a small store, we got to know all of our customers.  I found out he served in the Pacific and was a POW in China.  I always wanted to ask him more about his experiences, but there really wasn't a good time or place. I didn't get to ask my grandfathers because neither of them served - they were Pennsylvania coal miners and needed at home to support the war effort.

    Parent

    That's true. After the first half hour (none / 0) (#89)
    by ruffian on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 03:30:30 PM EST
    of confusion, I relaxed and started watching it that way, then caught up at the end when he wrote the letter home to the girl at the church.

    Parent
    Deem and Pass, Good or Bad? (none / 0) (#87)
    by Radix on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 03:29:44 PM EST
    Depends on what the reconciliation bill looks like, doesn't it?

    Depends (none / 0) (#92)
    by jbindc on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 03:34:16 PM EST
    On if it can stand constitutional muster.  There is a debate about it.

    Parent
    There's a debate (none / 0) (#104)
    by Farmboy on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 03:54:46 PM EST
    but it's years late. If this usage is determined to be unconstitutional, then all the previous usages dating back 15 years probably are as well.  

    This is just the sausage getting made, same as it ever was. The hubbub now is being raised by those in the media who are shocked, shocked I tell you, to discover that sausage making can be an ugly process.

    Parent

    Maybe (none / 0) (#108)
    by jbindc on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 03:58:22 PM EST
    But all the times it's been used before - has it been used for a bill that's supposed to be this sweeping?  And before, the public really didn't know what was going on - nowadays everyone has access to the internet, cable, and many other outlets to find out about it.

    The House phones and web were jammed today with people voicing their opinions on this.

    People are paying more attention than in years past.  And since whatever form of HCR passes will include a mandate, it seems like there will be a lot more people who will have standing to bring a legal challenge - and they will be well funded by all these special interest groups.

    Parent

    No disagreement with you there - (5.00 / 1) (#141)
    by Farmboy on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 04:47:13 PM EST
    there is an outcry. The Blitzers and Becks and LImbaughs, et al., are handing out torches and pitchforks to everyone within the sound of their voices.

    They frame the issue as one of their typical reasonable-sounding questions: "Are Dems passing laws without a vote?" (will dingoes eat YOUR children tonight?), and folks get concerned.

    Then the concern becomes the news, (parents protest dingoes - "why won't somebody think of the children?!?") leading bloviators to wonder aloud why the Dems hate babies.

    The Dems look like idiots on camera when asked about the dingo epidemic (half point out that there are no dingoes in the US: "Dems deny dingoes! tonight on AC 360", others cave and promise to hold hearings on the matter, and Joe L. votes with McCain).

    And so on and so on until the circle of news half-life is complete - or a blond coed goes missing.

    Meanwhile, today's truth has bled out on the news studio floor from its wounds, right next to yesterday's...

    Parent

    Ha Ha! (none / 0) (#148)
    by jbindc on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 05:09:53 PM EST
    "Dingoes" is a funny word.  Especially if they are eating YOUR children tonight (wouldn't want them tomorrow night - it's meatloaf night).

    Parent
    Another way to look at it (5.00 / 1) (#147)
    by Farmboy on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 05:05:04 PM EST
    is like the sudden-death overtime rule in the NFL. It only comes into play a few times a year, lots of folks talk about changing it but it's been around for years in one form or another... however, when it does happen, the folks crying "foul!" the loudest are the fans of the losing team.

    Parent
    Well (none / 0) (#149)
    by jbindc on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 05:10:56 PM EST
    I hope people around here and on other "liberal" blogs remember that when the Republican Congress does it to pass a bill for President Romney to sign in 2013.....

    Parent
    Could we have Vice-Pres (none / 0) (#151)
    by Farmboy on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 05:16:02 PM EST
    Steve King also? And Sec.State Bachman?

    Parent
    Why not? (none / 0) (#154)
    by jbindc on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 05:19:54 PM EST
    Put your request in to Mittens now.

    Attorney General Lindsay Graham, Interior Secretary Palin, Labor Secretary Sessions, Edcuation Secretary Ron Paul (oops, wait...he wants to get rid of the Ed Dept)

    Parent

    code brown (none / 0) (#155)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 05:26:45 PM EST
    I need to change my pants.

    Parent
    Aaaaaaaarrrrggh! (none / 0) (#170)
    by Zorba on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 06:16:29 PM EST
    And besides, it's Treasury Secretary Ron Paul and Education Secretary Mike Huckabee.  Director of Homeland Security Bill O'Reilly. HHS Secretary Rush Limbaugh (how else is he going to keep himself supplied with plenty of Oxycontin?).  

    Parent
    Problem is that this is not a game (none / 0) (#177)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 09:17:35 PM EST
    Plus your analogy is wrong. To make it right let's say that it has been used ONLY when both sides agree that the game should be over (debt limit passed) so they can get on to another game.

    Parent
    How does it actually work? (none / 0) (#94)
    by ruffian on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 03:36:11 PM EST
    They still have to vote somehow right? Or do the people who don't want it to pass stand up and be counted?

    Seems pretty chicken-s--- to me. Do they really think that is going to forestall any negative ads in the fall?

    Parent

    Sorta of. What happens is, (none / 0) (#97)
    by Radix on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 03:42:58 PM EST
    the House votes on the reconciliation bill first, if it passes then using "deem and Pass" the original Senate Health care bill is passed. Then both the Senate bill and the reconciliation bill go to the Prez's desk for signing simultaneously. This way we don't have to take the senates' word they will fix their bill after the fact.

    Parent
    Does the Senate not have to (none / 0) (#158)
    by coast on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 05:37:19 PM EST
    approve the reconciliation language as well?

    Parent
    As the Senate already passed the bill, (none / 0) (#159)
    by Farmboy on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 05:41:42 PM EST
    they don't need to revote as long as the wording stays the same on the House side as what they originally passed. That's what makes this pushme-pullyou setup work - the bill remains the same.

    Parent
    I thought the whole point of the second (none / 0) (#160)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 05:44:16 PM EST
    thing was to alter the senate bill?
    no?
    I also would have thought the senate would have to vote on any changes.

    Parent
    Nope (none / 0) (#181)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 11:12:47 PM EST
    Senate and House both have to pass the recon bill.

    House passes Senate bill (sort of, though this "deem and pass" rule), bill goes to Obama, who signs it.  Then Senate has to pass recon fix according to what makes House happy, House then passes recon bill exactly as Senate worded it.  Don't know if Pres. has to sign that, too, but it doesn't matter because of course he will.

    Parent

    You assume (none / 0) (#184)
    by jbindc on Wed Mar 17, 2010 at 07:33:47 AM EST
    The Senate could pass a recon bill to "fix" what they voted on with 60 Dem votes.  Oh, the Senate will try, and eventually Harry Reid will come out and say "sorry, we couldn't fix it this time - we'll get 'em next time."  Which means the bill "deemed and passed" (the original Senate bill_ will be the law, and all the Dems will have to run on that steaming pile.

    I can't believe anyone actually believes the Senate will "fix" the bill in reconciliation.

    Parent

    You assume I assume (none / 0) (#186)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Mar 17, 2010 at 10:13:25 AM EST
    I assume zippo.  I laid out the procedure they have to go through.

    Parent
    Despite (none / 0) (#98)
    by jbindc on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 03:43:24 PM EST
    what some around think, that people don't care about process (that's correct - they don't), they DO care when the argument can be framed as "The Dems snuck this in the back door. They were afraid to go on the record for this bad bill.  What else will they sneak in - higher taxes?  Killing babies?  Making everyone become vegetarian and wear Birkenstocks?"

    The ads write themselves.

    Parent

    And the Repubs will make those same (none / 0) (#100)
    by Radix on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 03:47:00 PM EST
    exact claims no matter what the Dems do. So why not do something they can defend to their base?

    Parent
    I guess that's the point (none / 0) (#105)
    by jbindc on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 03:55:04 PM EST
    CAN they defend this to their constituents?  Seems like with this tight of a whip count, it doesn't look like they think they can.

    Parent
    Haven't seen the recociliation bill (none / 0) (#109)
    by Radix on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 03:58:28 PM EST
    yet. As it stands now, they can't defend voting for the senate bill all by itself, for sure.

    Parent
    It really is very analogous to the Kerry (none / 0) (#107)
    by observed on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 03:57:56 PM EST
    against it/ for it business.
    In this case, the House will indirectly vote for a bill which we know from the whip count that they actually oppose.


    Parent
    True. Again though, we will have to see (none / 0) (#113)
    by Radix on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 04:01:47 PM EST
    what fixes are implemented via reconciliation. If, for example, a Public Option was added, mandates were struck from the senates bill, those things could help. Not saying that would happen of course.

    Parent
    Analogous in procedure (none / 0) (#118)
    by ruffian on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 04:04:33 PM EST
    but I hope to god no Dem is stupid enough to actually utter the words 'I was for it before I was against it' on camera again. It was the sound bite that hurt Kerry a lot more than the actual fact of what he did.

    Parent
    Got my census form today (none / 0) (#90)
    by jbindc on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 03:31:09 PM EST
    Finally!  An advantage to being single with no children!  My part of the census form to fill out is 1 page.  Done!

    Its Pat! (none / 0) (#157)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 05:34:30 PM EST

    Briton is recognised as world's first officially genderless person

    A British expat who claims to have no gender is thought to have become the first person to be officially recognised as neither male or female.


    I wonder what kind of hormone (none / 0) (#168)
    by observed on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 06:06:04 PM EST
    therapy a genderless person requires.

    Parent
    oh my (none / 0) (#161)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 05:46:38 PM EST
    will Dennis see the light?

    Rep Dennis Kucinich (D-OH) to announce his health care vote in a 10am news conference on Wednesday.

    My guess is that Congressman Kucinich (none / 0) (#173)
    by KeysDan on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 07:20:59 PM EST
    will vote for the bill.  Hopefully, there will be some constructive  changes that will satisfy his objectives and permit him to explain his position. He wants to be labeled as a progressive not as a gadfly.  But we will soon see.

    Parent
    I find this encouraging (none / 0) (#164)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 05:56:36 PM EST

    As Congress prepares for a crucial and possibly decisive vote on the fate of President Barack Obama's health care plan, the American public is evenly divided about whether the legislation should be passed or rejected, according to the latest NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll.

    after months and months of lies and distortions and its still 50/50?
    I think thats remarkable.  actually.

    and this (none / 0) (#165)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 16, 2010 at 05:59:11 PM EST
    DNC mocks tea party numbers

    Tea Partiers planned to "flood the halls of Congress" to protest health care legislation, a plan that prompted Democratic leaders to instruct their members to respond with politeness and Twinkies.

    The 10 a.m. Washignton, D.C.  rally, though, wasn't quite on the scale of some earlier events. The communications director for the Democratic National Committee, Brad Woodhouse, emails that his count is 300 attendees.

    "I've been to birthday parties that drew more people," he emails. "More people attended my wedding than went to the tea party kill the bill rally on the hill.



    Parent
    SITE VIOLATOR (none / 0) (#190)
    by shoephone on Fri Aug 03, 2012 at 12:10:35 PM EST
    SPAM.