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Monday Afternoon Open Thread

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Blog Related
Posted on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 01:31:17 PM EST
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Did you catch the end of the Michigan State-Maryland game yesterday? Unbelievable. I now predict a Kentucky (original pick) - Syracuse (new pick to replace bounced Kansas) final with Kentucky (original pick) winning it all.

This is an Open Thread.

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    Monday Afternoon Open Thread | 122 comments (122 topical)
    super excited (5.00 / 6) (#1)
    by CST on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 01:34:55 PM EST
    I'm gonna be an aunt!

    1st one of the next generation, so this kid is gonna be spoiled rotten.

    Looking forward to doing my part as corrupter-in-chief - and then giving the kid back for mom and dad to deal with.

    wait (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 01:37:59 PM EST
    until they all start looking alike and you start calling the wrong name.

    Parent
    but (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 01:38:31 PM EST
    congratulations

    the first one is always the most exciting

    Parent

    oh yea (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by CST on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 01:43:28 PM EST
    I'm also happy that now grandma and grandpa to-be might get off mine and sister #2's case a bit.

    I wasn't kidding about the corrupter-in-chief bit either.  In fact, my sister (the pregnant one) actually asked me to corrupt her kids.  I'm not sure what she means exactly, but since she recently converted to islam, I take it she wants me to introduce them to bacon and booze some day.  Since she can't now, but she does want them to have some exposure.

    Parent

    fortunately (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 01:46:48 PM EST
    I was the youngest and I have three very fertile siblings.  by the time I was old enough to breed no one had any illusions.

    I am uncle to 7 and great uncle to 17

    Parent

    Spoiler-in-chief.... (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by desertswine on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 02:09:09 PM EST
    is your new job now. Congratulations!

    Parent
    Aunt of 16 now (5.00 / 3) (#7)
    by Cream City on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 01:53:22 PM EST
    -- with my favorite niece turning 21 today, one who is so smart, as are they all, but she is one of the few who wants to pursue a career and a family.  So now we see if she can survive the pressure of her 20s.  (Most of the others want both, but serially -- career, briefly, then being stay-at-home moms.  That's fine, but they don't yet see how unaffordable that is for so many families, and they are not dating wealthy men.:-)

    We just were emailing, and she wrote something so nice:  That I was the one always honest with her.

    Aunts get to do that.  It's the best role of all, with the least work.  Enjoy.

    Parent

    You make it sound (none / 0) (#36)
    by SOS on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 02:25:59 PM EST
    like us oldsters are dumb or something.  How could that happen we're supposed to get smarter with age not become dumber then our kids.  LOL

    Parent
    Hey, congratulations! (5.00 / 2) (#11)
    by ruffian on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 02:01:57 PM EST
    The first one is so exciting. My oldest niece will always have a special place in my heart.

    Good Luck to your family. enjoy!

    Parent

    ditto (none / 0) (#13)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 02:06:50 PM EST


    Parent
    Welcome to the... (5.00 / 2) (#31)
    by kdog on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 02:21:20 PM EST
    rotten spoilers club kid...it really is the best, uncle 5 times over here...some of the joy of parenthood, none of the responsibility!  Ya can't beat that deal.

    Pretty cool of your sis to give a pre-emptive ok to corrupt the kid...I guess she's not taking the Islam too seriously...sounds like she'll make a great mom with that attitude.

    Parent

    yea (none / 0) (#41)
    by CST on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 02:32:46 PM EST
    I think that she takes it very seriously - for herself.  But she came to it on her own, after trying everything else that was out there, and I think she just wants her kids to make up their own minds.  Which sounds pretty solid to me.

    Definitely looking forward to the perks, although there will be some minimal "responsibility" in the sister (not aunt) role.  My pregnant sister is also the super-emotional, full of mood-swings, tends to cry a lot, one.  And that's when she's not pregnant.  So I'm sure there will be some damage control in the months ahead just to help her stay married and sane :)

    Although judging from my cousin's experience (who is similar to my sister in temperment), kid #1 will only make her more crazy.  But kid #2 will force her to chill, since there's really only so much you can freak out.

    Parent

    Tell that to my sister... (none / 0) (#47)
    by kdog on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 02:40:35 PM EST
    she's got 3 girls and still no chill capabilities...uptight as ever, sun god bless her...and still she won't smoke a doob with me...I swear she must be the postman's kid or there was a mix-up at the hospital:)

    Parent
    Congratulations (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 02:26:33 PM EST
    I'm glad that Naomi and Zoey are going to be closer now too.  I miss them when they are so far away.  Out of this mess, I'm going to start out counting my wins today.

    Parent
    Hey MT... (5.00 / 2) (#39)
    by kdog on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 02:29:40 PM EST
    any update on when Mr. MT will be home?  

    Parent
    Officially the 25th (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 02:33:46 PM EST
    But he said yesterday that he may be able to speed up his processing and make it the 24th.  He should be laying over at Dulles right now, but I haven't gotten a call from him yet.  He should be on U.S. soil though right now.  Poor man, what a mess he's coming home to right now.

    Parent
    Praise the lord... (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by kdog on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 02:52:15 PM EST
    great news...and I'm sure this mess is a welcome change from the mess over there...and a safer mess.

    Parent
    This mess has his name on it though (5.00 / 4) (#55)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 02:53:35 PM EST
    buwhahahahahahaha!

    Parent
    I got the call (5.00 / 3) (#133)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 06:53:03 PM EST
    He is now in the air on his way to Bragg.  We are almost done with this deployment!

    Parent
    Meant to comment on your post earlier (5.00 / 2) (#43)
    by ruffian on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 02:34:44 PM EST
    Hope things work out for her. Maybe she will come up with a better career path.

    3 days to go - you must be excited!

    From the 'trouble all over file': My sister was interrupted from our web chat the other night by the sound of multiple police cars coming to her house. Her husband was driving while intoxicated and decided to try to run away from the policeman that tried to pull him over. My poor sister was just beside herself with anger and embarrassment. Bro-in-law spent the weekend in jail. Goes before the judge today for the next step. The marriage was already circling the drain - pretty sure it will not survive this.  I'm just glad he didn't cause some innocent driver to get hurt.

    Families, what can ya do?

    Parent

    I hear you, I feel for your sis (5.00 / 2) (#50)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 02:46:18 PM EST
    I think daughter will be okay.  Everything has been very kneejerk thusfar.  And then there is a whole backlog of having to put up with mom being right too even though I don't like to be a told ya so.  Mom didn't want her to get married though to begin with, said she thought everyone was too young.  Mom was never satisfied with the lack of reconciling details that were never worked out either when they got back together.  I am such a pain in the neck mom though.  I don't think having a first marriage fail right out of the gates of high school adds up to a huge failure though.  So many of my friends did that.  I did not do that because I somehow knew that we were all too nuts yet.  So I went to all the weddings because it was a great party, and went to all the divorces because it was a great party :)  My husband had such a marriage fail though and he still feels bad about it in strange ways.  There are much worse things in the world though, like staying forever in loveless marriages where people are miserable.  Weekends in jail must super suck too for everyone involved.

    Parent
    It must be hard not to feel (5.00 / 2) (#56)
    by ruffian on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 02:57:19 PM EST
    like you failed if your marriage doesn't work out, and I'm trying to help my sister through that part. She married in her early 20s to a much older man, and did the best she could with it for 20 years. She has two wonderful kids to show for it, so it was not all a mistake. it might still work out if they get some counseling. The weekend's events have spurred them into that, so we shall see.

    As far as the weekend goes, she said it was the most relaxing one she has had for a year ;-) We were joking that maybe she can get the judge to give him a few months of weekends in jail as his sentence.

    Parent

    I'm so sorry, Ruffian (none / 0) (#62)
    by Zorba on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 03:16:08 PM EST
    For your sister, that is.  Her husband has apparently made his own (bad) choices.  Do they have any kids?

    Parent
    Thanks so much (5.00 / 1) (#135)
    by ruffian on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 07:06:03 PM EST
    She is very level headed and will be fine once she decides what to do. Sad to say, it is not the worst thing that has ever happened to her.

    She has a 19 yr old son and 17 yr old daughter, both wonderful people. They understand what is going on and will help both parents. My sister was just sooo glad neither one of them was home the other evening when it was happening. She could tell them about it in the morning when it was calmer.

    It will all work out. Her husband is a decent guy, but has a little more than his share of demons himself. I hope he gets some help now.

    Parent

    Sending positive thoughts and hopes to (5.00 / 2) (#145)
    by Zorba on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 07:35:37 PM EST
    your sister and the kids.  And also that her husband can get help for his own demons.  A sad situation for all.

    Parent
    Best wishes (5.00 / 2) (#146)
    by jbindc on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 07:43:34 PM EST
    I hope it works out - she's lucky to have you.

    Sending good thoughts her way.

    Parent

    Oh, thanks (5.00 / 2) (#147)
    by ruffian on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 07:47:24 PM EST
    It is mutual, believe me. She keeps me down to earth, or tries.

    Parent
    I have 3 sisters (5.00 / 1) (#148)
    by jbindc on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 07:54:20 PM EST
    I totally understand.  :)

    Parent
    Oh, congrats, CST! (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by Zorba on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 03:12:37 PM EST
    Yes, I tried really hard to spoil all my nieces and nephews.  You'll have fun! :-)

    Parent
    'It's A Baby Killer'' (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 01:55:46 PM EST
    Rep. Randy Neugebauer (R-TX) has come forward and admitted that he was the one who yelled "baby killer" during the House debate on the health care bill last night.

    In his statement, Neugeubauer said that he meant to refer to the bill as "a baby killer," not Stupak himself.

    well
    thats ok then

    I'm sure he was just upset because the bill does (5.00 / 6) (#12)
    by ruffian on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 02:05:20 PM EST
    not provide enough in health care subsidies for expectant mothers.  /snark

    Parent
    i'm gonna (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 01:55:55 PM EST
    put it all on Syracuse winning!!

    Hey - Rush should be moving to Costa Rica ! (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by ruffian on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 02:08:00 PM EST
    Now I can really celebrate the passage of the HCR bill.

    Or maybe he had to find a different haven since he may have been told that Costa Rica has government run health care, but I doubt he can find a country with worse run private health care than the US that can still support a radio network.

    Kos was saying (5.00 / 2) (#17)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 02:10:13 PM EST
    he should try Somalia.  very little government or social services.  

    Im sure its lovely this time of year

    Parent

    Perfect! His dream government. (none / 0) (#19)
    by ruffian on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 02:11:08 PM EST


    Parent
    I think we (none / 0) (#27)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 02:16:20 PM EST
    should start a site for moving and relocation expenses for Rush.

    Parent
    to late (none / 0) (#48)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 02:42:04 PM EST
    aticketforrush.com

    Parent
    thing progress has (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 02:35:33 PM EST
    some great golden oldies:

        - Dick Morris, Fox News commentator, November 4: "A deathblow to ObamaCare."

        - Fred Barnes, Fox News commentator, January 20: "The health care bill, ObamaCare, is dead with not the slightest prospect of resurrection."

        - Robert A. Levy, chairman of the Cato Institute, January 26: "That's why Obamacare is dead."

        - Rep. Eric Cantor (R-VA), Minority Whip, February 24: "Speaker Pelosi doesn't have the votes in the House. . . . It is futile for for them to continue to try and push something on the American people that frankly won't result in better health care."

        - Rep. Dan Boren (D-OK), March 3: "I think the votes are not there and I don't see where we get them."

        - Cantor, March 5: "Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi doesn't have the votes needed to pass a health-care bill in the House of Representatives."

        - Rep. John Boehner (R-OH), Minority Leader, March 14: "If she had 216 votes, this bill would be long gone. They tried to pass it in September, October, November, December, January, February. Guess what? They don't have the votes."

        - Boehner, March 17: Health care reform will pass "over my dead body."

        - Cantor, March 19: "[T]here's no way they can pass this bill."
    Dick Morris (5.00 / 3) (#114)
    by IndiDemGirl on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 05:15:36 PM EST
    predictions are about as accurate as a Zogby poll.  

    If only I had know of his prediction back in November I would have been saved countless hours of worrying over HCR passage.

    Parent

    longer and funnier list (none / 0) (#46)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 02:38:38 PM EST
    on HuffPo

    Parent
    Dan Boren, before he votes NO (none / 0) (#143)
    by ruffian on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 07:28:38 PM EST
    "I think the votes are not there and I don't see where we get them."

    Just what 'we' was he talking about?

    Parent

    Jane on Ratigan (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by waldenpond on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 03:26:08 PM EST
    Ratigan discussing the racism and slurs made by the protestors.  Jane Hamsher on Ratigan's show seems dismissive of the criticism of the protestors, stating how enraged people are a la tea party because of the mandate.  She's 'scared' of what's going to happen.

    The conservative is really, really happy with Jane.

    It was Ratigan against the two.  :)

    For anyone (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by CST on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 03:33:03 PM EST
    who uses facebook, this is pretty funny.  I know at least one person that fits every category.

    LOL (none / 0) (#136)
    by ruffian on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 07:09:25 PM EST
    Yes, that is good. I know a few of those myself.

    Parent
    Be afraid, be very afraid (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by waldenpond on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 03:33:08 PM EST
    Oh yes, she's very serious.  She's scared about what people are going to do with their rage over the govt forcing them to spend x-amount on insurance or x-amount of a penalty.

    She's very doom and gloomy.  Be afraid, be very afraid.  Boo.

    Oh, good... (5.00 / 2) (#68)
    by Anne on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 03:33:15 PM EST
    you finally fell asleep.

    Shhh...

    OK, that was funny (none / 0) (#80)
    by waldenpond on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 03:54:08 PM EST
    Come on Capt.... you have to admit that was a good one.  :)

    Parent
    I admit (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 03:56:27 PM EST
    nothing

    Parent
    Captain Howdy (none / 0) (#181)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Mar 23, 2010 at 11:26:05 AM EST
    You are disrupting the board and posting too many snipes and insults. The comments are for discussion. You may not post 100 plus comments a day. The comments section will not devolve into spats between a few commenters. Others have been banned for this.

    Please comment when you have a point to make and do not respond to every comment.

    I don't care whether a commenter agrees or disagrees with views expressed, but blog-clogging devalues the site and lowers the level of discourse for everyone.

    This thread is closing now. Do not repeat your conduct of today and yesterday in other threads.

    I am not imposing a comment limit on you at this time. But if your comments are just to take swipes, you will be limited or put in time out.

    Parent

    omg (none / 0) (#160)
    by nycstray on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 09:08:13 PM EST
    OY! Have you been a tad more careful with your quips since?

    The retelling of it is good for a chuckle though ;)

    Parent

    Wow. (5.00 / 6) (#69)
    by s5 on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 03:35:26 PM EST
    I haven't read this site in a while. Apparently, covering 32 million people and saving the lives of 45,000 who die each year without insurance is a "progressive failure". Ending medical bankruptcy and a massive expansion of Medicaid and primary care through community health centers are also "progressive failures". Guaranteeing the right to coverage by forcing insurers to take anyone and everyone also counts as "failure".

    We won on every principle. We didn't win on many of the policy bullet points. Guess which victory is harder to get. Winning on the principles will get us more of the policy bullet points over time.

    I'll take more "progressive failures" like this any day of the week.

    thank you (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 03:40:11 PM EST
    thank you
    thank you

    Parent
    Unfortuantely (5.00 / 2) (#75)
    by jbindc on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 03:46:06 PM EST
    It's the fine print that will kill you (maybe literally, in the case of this bill).

    Maybe you should read through what some very intelligent and educated people around here and elsewhere have been saying about it.

    And principle might be good, but not only will it make many people angry when they found out the details of this bill, it could very well hurt Dems as voters look for someone to blame.  And if principle gets you healthy - more power to you.  Not everyone will be so lucky.

    (BTW - the Dems abandoned their principles with regards to women's reproductive rights. Not sure why that should be celebrated)

    Parent

    If it (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 05:43:59 PM EST
    did that I woudl be doing cartwheels but it doesnt. It is a failure precisely because it doesnt do the things it claims it will.

    Parent
    I just now received an application (5.00 / 2) (#70)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 03:39:30 PM EST
    in the mail for a charity called Magic Moments.  They seem similar to Make a Wish.  It is for Joshua, I'll bet someone from Joshua's school when he did that pledge run nominated him for it.  Trying to think about how to bring it up to him, what would he wish for?  I'm all teary eyed though.

    Me, too, (none / 0) (#79)
    by Inspector Gadget on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 03:53:31 PM EST
    teary-eyed.

    Can't wait to hear what he wishes for...and, I'm eager to hear the story of how you brought it up.

    I know what I would do, but this is going to be a really big, special and personal moment for the two of you to remember.


    Parent

    I have not explained that he has (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 04:28:41 PM EST
    received this application yet, but I asked him to ponder a wish to go and do or experience or meet someone or something that seems at this time impossible and wants to meet video game engineers and developers.

    Parent
    X-box and Nintendo are both in Seattle (5.00 / 1) (#161)
    by Inspector Gadget on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 09:31:21 PM EST
    If he wishes for something else, you could probably answer his hope to meet an engineer in gaming when you come out this way. Nintendo has a huge game room where the employees play to unwind :)

    X-box isn't far away from Nintendo. Microsoft's big campus is almost connected to the Nintendo HQ building.


    Parent

    His primary system that he uses (none / 0) (#162)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Mar 23, 2010 at 04:11:57 AM EST
    at this time is his XBox.  I have a feeling we will be in your neighborhood for more than just Dr. Mosca.

    Parent
    The link and summary (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by Inspector Gadget on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 04:09:30 PM EST
    of who you sourced was great....no one knows more about the shady workings of the insurance companies than the doctors who are constantly having to negotiate and fight with them so they can provide proper care to their patients. I can't think of a more credible group than the one you quoted.
    hmmm (5.00 / 2) (#90)
    by CST on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 04:17:57 PM EST
    I've been thinking about all this back and forth lately.

    Maybe the whole TL crew needs to gather at kdog's to work this out.

    I mean, can't we all just get along? :)

    Superfly sez: (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by jondee on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 04:34:33 PM EST
    "Im gonna git you sucka"

    Thats some some dignified discourse and analysis they're carrying on over at Pox News..Dont even THINK about trying to tell me not to insult these knucklewalkers and teabaggers that are consciously promulgating that garbage..the only thing at this point that would un-alienate that crowd is - possibly - a few courses of electro convulsive therapy.

    Im just waiting for them to start putting up those Dallas-in-'63 "Wanted for Treason" posters.

    In short, not to put to fine a point on it, eff them.

    Oh (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by squeaky on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 05:02:12 PM EST
    Well, for me, whenever I see the word crusade, it reminds me of events that happened around 1100 and 1300 in europe called the Crusades.

    During that time anyone accused of not being christian enough was subjected to torture, until they admitted that they were heretics, then they were left to die on a cross or just killed.

    The inquisitions were a nifty kind of christian waterboarding that continued on for several centuries after the crusades. Torture and death were usually the outcome. The people caught up in that sort of thing were accused of heresy and called heretics.

    Whenever I see the word crusaders I think of (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by shoephone on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 06:37:23 PM EST
    these guys They were my favorite band in the 70's. Tightest, funkiest jazz soul-driving sh]t on the planet!


    Parent
    Thanks (none / 0) (#112)
    by nycstray on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 05:13:50 PM EST
    nope, def not my intent! Just another way of saying 'on a mission' kinda thing in this decade for me. I've been known to go on a few myself :)

    Oh my, they just showed Pelosi on da teevee. She looks to have had a makeover . . . .

    Parent

    On A Mission? LOL (none / 0) (#118)
    by squeaky on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 05:33:51 PM EST
    Also religious origins, think missionary. Hard to escape religious connotations, eh?

    Parent
    I guess it's easy for folks (5.00 / 1) (#120)
    by nycstray on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 05:40:32 PM EST
    versed in religion to see it that way  ;) I seriously had zero religious upbringing, so my words are innocent when put out there, interpretations I can't control though . . .

    I take that back about the Nanc makeover. Looks like they used old footage when doing the teaser, lol!~ I seriously had to look twice.

    Parent

    On A Roll (none / 0) (#126)
    by squeaky on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 05:49:28 PM EST
    Innocent:

    1. a.A.1.a Of persons: Doing no evil; free from moral wrong, sin, or guilt (in general); pure, unpolluted. Usually (in mod. use always) implying `unacquainted with evil' (thus freq. of little children; whence passing into sense 5); but formerly sometimes in more general sense (e.g. of God or Christ), Sinless, holy.

    OED

    Parent

    Perhaps I should have said (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by nycstray on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 06:00:00 PM EST
    devoid of religion?

    Parent
    god this is fun (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 05:31:10 PM EST
    Senate GOP skeptical of chances to take down healthcare reform

    Republicans have threatened for months to make the process as grueling as possible, challenging the bill on virtually a line-by-line basis.

    "We're going to go sentence-by-sentence through however many pages there turns out to be, and enforce the rules of the Senate, which is our responsibility  --- every action we take will be a responsible action to enforce credible, significant amendments and points of order."

    Instead, Republicans say they simply don't know how successful they will be.

    "I don't know -- 50-50," said GOP Policy Chairman John Thune

    "I have no idea," said Sen. Judd Gregg,

    "I just don't know. I just don't know," McCain
    Calling Frank Luntz (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by waldenpond on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 05:58:25 PM EST
    Don't worry... Frank Luntz is having a focus group to develop new talking points for them as we type.

    Repeal - in total
    Improve - with amendments
    Sue - that it's unconstitutional

    and the winner is..... I think they will go with 'unconstitutional' Seems the best option to keep their rowdies on board.

    Parent

    Yes, they will go with lawsuits for sure (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by ruffian on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 07:11:53 PM EST
    Because that would be the most hypocritical thing they could do, and we know that is always what they pick. Bet they will have to hire some 'trial lawyers!'

    Parent
    Um, yer timing is off I think (5.00 / 4) (#142)
    by nycstray on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 07:27:55 PM EST
    P*mas came about at the end of the primaries when they wanted unity. BTD was an Obama supporter and J, Clinton. After O 'won' ;) the nom, J went O and stated the site was now supporting O. Many (most?) p*mas moved on to sites where they could be more free in their opinion. IIRC :) Not all HRC supporters went p*ma, so the mass labeling that people like to do doesn't really fit. HRC supporters are not one size fits all . . . .

    Size... (5.00 / 1) (#152)
    by jondee on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 08:09:57 PM EST
    maybe not, but they often give that impression here.

    Parent
    He is so enthusiastically and (5.00 / 1) (#144)
    by ruffian on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 07:30:01 PM EST
    emphatically and consistently wrong. Can't beat that.

    Why does he still have a job?

    Strange (5.00 / 1) (#163)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Mar 23, 2010 at 04:22:57 AM EST
    I always figured this site was inundated with more than a few lawyers.  Lawyers have a very specific problem that prevents them from becoming blind leading blind, they gather facts.  They of course have their biases too as any other human being, but they tend to not be afraid to incorporate things like facts into their daily lives and decision making.

    When you pay the coach (KY) 4 million a year, (none / 0) (#6)
    by rennies on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 01:52:17 PM EST
    they doggone better win -- although I would much rather have a REAL academic team, like Cornell, win.

    its getting interesting (none / 0) (#10)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 01:57:57 PM EST
    The Secret Service Is Investigating a Conservative's Obama Assassination Tweets

    Totally whacked out, they are (none / 0) (#18)
    by MKS on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 02:10:48 PM EST
    For those who opposed the health care bill from the Left, it should be some consolation that the Right is incoherent with rage and disappointment....and making themselves look like irrational fools....

    Parent
    How is that consolation? (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by Dr Molly on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 02:25:55 PM EST
    The Right has always behaved like irrational, whacked out fools. That fact doesn't do anything to ameliorate the fact that nothing has been done to stop the fleecing of American citizens by big pharma and insurance.

    Parent
    I wont go there (none / 0) (#20)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 02:12:32 PM EST
    is incoherent with rage and disappointment....and making themselves look like irrational fools....


    Parent
    thank you (none / 0) (#23)
    by ruffian on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 02:13:32 PM EST


    Parent
    may I compliment you (none / 0) (#26)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 02:15:31 PM EST
    on your balanced and unfleeced outlook during all this?

    Parent
    thx. I just try to remain in the (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by ruffian on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 02:47:15 PM EST
    reality based community and also not hold grudges against people I don't really know.

    Parent
    Except righties (none / 0) (#52)
    by ruffian on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 02:48:04 PM EST
    I feel like I know them well enough.

    Parent
    You want (none / 0) (#125)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 05:46:48 PM EST
    to have a knee jerk reaction to another knee jerk reaction go right ahead. This is the way the Bush administration thought. As long as they angered progressives they were doing good. We all see how that worked out didnt it?

    Parent
    The unfortunate part of this bill (none / 0) (#16)
    by SOS on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 02:09:13 PM EST
    I and others will have to close our small corporations and go to a sole proprietor business or a hobby rather than add the HC costs to our products.
    If that's true, it is unfortunate (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 02:24:48 PM EST
    Don't know whether this applies to you or not, but have you considered that by not offering their employees health insurance, some companies have had an advantage over their competitors who do, on the backs of their employees' ability to get health care?

    Just askin'.

    Parent

    Which costs specifically? (none / 0) (#22)
    by ruffian on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 02:12:53 PM EST


    Parent
    The costs that no doubt are coming (none / 0) (#25)
    by SOS on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 02:15:20 PM EST
    because this bill does nothing to prevent the insurance companies and med complex from continuing to gouge us.  

    Parent
    Could you have survived the (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by ruffian on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 02:17:04 PM EST
    same costs if they had come without the bill?

    Parent
    Proably not (none / 0) (#29)
    by SOS on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 02:18:20 PM EST
    The only winning move is not to play.

    Parent
    I know what you mean (none / 0) (#34)
    by ruffian on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 02:25:01 PM EST
    I'm sure there are many companies that had more than a passing interest in getting some real reform out of this bill. I wish it was better too.

    I think small businesses owners are one of the groups that gets listened to the most. If small businesses agitated to open up the exchanges for employees of companies of a certain size, it might work. I bet my own employer would love to be out of the health insurance provider business and concentrate on her real work.

    Parent

    I'm laughing at my boss today... (none / 0) (#60)
    by kdog on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 03:09:47 PM EST
    he was all excited when healthcare reform first took the stage, thinking the government was gonna take the burden of covering his workers off his hands and increase his profits...now he's got the same burden to provide coverage and he's getting the over 200k tax increase.  And a "we shall see" on healthcare costs going down.

    Parent
    Catastrophic Policy (none / 0) (#53)
    by waldenpond on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 02:50:10 PM EST
    I thought most employers would be covered with the tax credit to at least adhere to the requirement by buying a cheap catastrophic, high deductible policy.  There are some really, really crap policies out there that should cover the mandate without hitting the bottom line.

    Parent
    Afghanistan, the ungovernable place (none / 0) (#21)
    by Dadler on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 02:12:34 PM EST
    And why our delusions of progress are just that.

    Boy the wars sure have vanished (none / 0) (#24)
    by SOS on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 02:14:00 PM EST
    from the public radar haven't they? With all this Health Care hoopla stealing the limelight.

    Parent
    Yes - the media can only tell one story at a time (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by ruffian on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 02:18:35 PM EST
    If a pretty young blond had gone missing this weekend we would not have heard anything about the health care hoopla either.

    Parent
    Just another day (none / 0) (#32)
    by SOS on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 02:22:43 PM EST
    in ol USA.

    Parent
    Speaking of which... (none / 0) (#38)
    by kdog on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 02:28:04 PM EST
    have we gotten a breaking news bulletin about that maybe/could be/possibly a skeleton in the waters of Aruba that maybe/could be/possibly be Natalee?  

    Just wondering if the case is solved, or if I should keep my eyes open snorkeling in the Carribean Sea for any clues:)

    Parent

    I saw that the other night (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by ruffian on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 02:38:07 PM EST
    Top story on the CNN web page!

    It looked like when people see the virgin Mary in their toast to me, but who knows?

    kdog if I hear you are searching for Natalee rather than paying attention to your lady, I will personally give you he!!.

    Parent

    LOL... (5.00 / 2) (#57)
    by kdog on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 02:58:55 PM EST
    No worries ruff...I'm sure I'll barely even notice I'm in a foreign country, my eyes will be so fixated...I've got the butterflies fluttering in my gut already!

    Me and M.T. are gonna be busy 3/25...real busy:)  I hope our better halves are eating their Wheaties.

    Parent

    Dude, (none / 0) (#58)
    by MKS on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 03:01:38 PM EST
    If you snorkel in the wrong place in Cozumel, Cancun or Isla Mujeres, you could get caught in a current that takes you to Cuba....

    Aruba is the other way.....

    Parent

    Darn... (none / 0) (#59)
    by kdog on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 03:04:32 PM EST
    and I was so looking forward to being a guest on Good Morning America:)

    Parent
    Hang in there Dog (none / 0) (#104)
    by CoralGables on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 04:44:12 PM EST
    with a little bit of luck, he drifts out and catches the Gulfstream near the northwest corner of Cuba, follows the flow around the tip of Florida, up the coast past North Carolina, begins across the Atlantic until he gets caught in the North Equatorial Current taking him back southward, and in about a year or so he finds himself swinging by Aruba and being a nightly feature on Nancy Grace.

    Parent
    Afghanistan, the poppy growing conundrum. (none / 0) (#82)
    by KeysDan on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 03:58:35 PM EST
    To allow or not to allow, that is the question (among many in Afghanistan). After the hard fight for Marja  (where US troops now occupy in daytime but less so at night), US forces will no longer eradicate the poppy fields in that area. General McChrystal is on the heavy side of the see saw, claiming that "we do not trample the livelihoods of those we are tying to win over" But, on the light side of the same see saw, are Afghan officials who we are also trying to win over who cite their constitutional ban of opium cultivation (perhaps until they are cut in).  Other Afghanistan officials point out the uncomfortable fact that the Taliban profit from poppy growing (they take at least 10 percent from the farmers). Letting the enemy be financed in this means so as to turn around and kill you seems counterintuitive by some lights. The State Department and the DEA are between the proverbial rock and a hard place--with consideration of a "Don't ask, Don't Tell" (it has worked so well, of course, in other venues) wherein farmers can continue on but the troops will interdict. Oh, but where to do so: just outside the farm gate, or on the lanes leading from the farm to town.  A conundrum it is.

    Parent
    Great synopsis (none / 0) (#139)
    by ruffian on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 07:14:47 PM EST
    I'll follow that story...I hate to see our troops used as DEA agents.

    Parent
    "near-universal medical coverage" (none / 0) (#40)
    by nycstray on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 02:32:33 PM EST
    WASHINGTON - President Barack Obama is preparing to sign a transformative health care bill ushering in near-universal medical coverage for the first time in the nation's history -- and then hit the road to sell it to a reluctant public.

    Obama will travel to Iowa City, Iowa on Thursday, the White House said, as he now turns to seeing a companion bill through the Senate and selling the health care overhaul's benefits on behalf of House members who cast risky votes.

    Heh, at least they didn't call it "care"! Now they just need to add "mandated" in there . . . .

    Can't wait to see his "tour". . .

    Here's an excerpt from (5.00 / 3) (#65)
    by Anne on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 03:32:13 PM EST
    the statement issued by PNHP:

    As much as we would like to join the celebration of the House's passage of the health bill last night, in good conscience we cannot. We take no comfort in seeing aspirin dispensed for the treatment of cancer.

    [snip]

    The hype surrounding the new health bill is belied by the facts:

    •  About 23 million people will remain uninsured nine years out. That figure translates into an estimated 23,000 unnecessary deaths annually and an incalculable toll of suffering.

    •  Millions of middle-income people will be pressured to buy commercial health insurance policies costing up to 9.5 percent of their income but covering an average of only 70 percent of their medical expenses, potentially leaving them vulnerable to financial ruin if they become seriously ill. Many will find such policies too expensive to afford or, if they do buy them, too expensive to use because of the high co-pays and deductibles.

    •  Insurance firms will be handed at least $447 billion in taxpayer money to subsidize the purchase of their shoddy products. This money will enhance their financial and political power, and with it their ability to block future reform.

    •  The bill will drain about $40 billion from Medicare payments to safety-net hospitals, threatening the care of the tens of millions who will remain uninsured.

    •  People with employer-based coverage will be locked into their plan's limited network of providers, face ever-rising costs and erosion of their health benefits. Many, even most, will eventually face steep taxes on their benefits as the cost of insurance grows.

    •  Health care costs will continue to skyrocket, as the experience with the Massachusetts plan (after which this bill is patterned) amply demonstrates.

    •  The much-vaunted insurance regulations - e.g. ending denials on the basis of pre-existing conditions - are riddled with loopholes, thanks to the central role that insurers played in crafting the legislation. Older people can be charged up to three times more than their younger counterparts, and large companies with a predominantly female workforce can be charged higher gender-based rates at least until 2017.

    •  Women's reproductive rights will be further eroded, thanks to the burdensome segregation of insurance funds for abortion and for all other medical services.

    Yes, it's a done deal, and no, it is unlikely that there will be any impetus to even look at health care until it gets closer to November, and then it will be campaign hype of one form or another.

    Start saving your pennies; w're going to be paying a lot of them to Big Insurance...

    Parent

    What do they know? (none / 0) (#72)
    by jbindc on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 03:42:03 PM EST
    They're just doctors, for heaven's sake.

    Parent
    pnhp (none / 0) (#74)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 03:44:37 PM EST
    Physicians for a National Health Program is a non-profit research and education organization of 17,000 physicians, medical students and health professionals who support single-payer national health insurance.

    Parent
    You might want to point out the Crusaders (none / 0) (#111)
    by oculus on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 05:10:50 PM EST
    traveled out of Europe.

    Yeah (none / 0) (#115)
    by squeaky on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 05:30:34 PM EST
    The original point of the crusades, for the europeans to retake Jerusalem, from the infidels (muslims), and plunder, kill, and torture along the way, in the name of christ.

    I always get a kick out of the fact that Richard the Lionheart was gay.

    Parent

    And the Caliphates were such peaceful people (none / 0) (#123)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 05:44:54 PM EST


    Parent
    werent they the ones (none / 0) (#124)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 05:46:48 PM EST
    that Vlad nailed their turbans to their heads because they wouldnt take them off?


    Parent
    Nah, he never did that (none / 0) (#130)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 06:11:36 PM EST
    to  Abu Ali Mansur al Hakim.  Abu Ali Mansur al Hakim was done in by his own mother when he attempted to make himself an official divinity.

    Parent
    Well (none / 0) (#137)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 07:10:58 PM EST
    anybody who thinks things are bad here on TL haven't gone to facebook lately. It's an all out war between the OFB and the conservanuts.

    Lord, that has to make our threads (5.00 / 1) (#141)
    by ruffian on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 07:19:56 PM EST
    look like the Algonquin roundtable.

    Parent
    It sure (none / 0) (#151)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Mar 22, 2010 at 08:04:37 PM EST
    does. People don't know how well even the arguments go on here.

    Parent
    A girl and her dog :) (none / 0) (#164)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Mar 23, 2010 at 05:09:50 AM EST
    It is nice to go to bed early and wake up before dawn.  And your dog gets up with you.  Watched a strange tragic movie titled 'Voyager' with Sam Shepard, having coffee.  We will welcome the sun together when it gets here, and toss munchkin in the bathtub for school when we can finally get him up :)

    Thread closed due to (none / 0) (#183)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Mar 23, 2010 at 11:28:04 AM EST
    deterioration of comments into personal swipes. Captain Howdy, see the warning above. I'm cleaning the thread.

    JBinDC (none / 0) (#185)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Mar 23, 2010 at 11:32:48 AM EST
    you are also a prime participant in the spats. Please stop the sniping and insults.

    Monday Afternoon Open Thread | 122 comments (122 topical)