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Progressive Reality

Chris Bowers:

The goal is a more progressive Democratic caucus that still controls the House. We should be attempting to become majority partners in a governing coalition, not minority partners in a governing coalition (the current set-up), or majority partners in the loyal opposition.

Agreed.

Speaking for me only

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    I'm glad you two agree (5.00 / 5) (#1)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Mar 23, 2010 at 01:07:19 PM EST
    My uterus does not want Chris Bowers and the Chris Bower's "sorry I had to stab you in the uterus like that baby" back though.  Go away Chris

    Yeah (5.00 / 4) (#2)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Mar 23, 2010 at 01:10:06 PM EST
    Chris "isn't it just so sad we had to take your rights away but hey, baby I won't beat you up next time." Yeah, right.

    Parent
    aka D's 'It's not the right fight at this time' (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by Ellie on Wed Mar 24, 2010 at 03:58:37 AM EST
    ... slice off the excuse meatloaf, but this time served with applause cause Dems flagrantly gave their overlords everything up front.

    Parent
    It's like your other analogy BTD (5.00 / 3) (#3)
    by Dadler on Tue Mar 23, 2010 at 01:23:19 PM EST
    The one about not simply trying to play to the center, but by being able to define the terms of the center.  Progressives need to define their core values and civic aspirations in the same manner and very publicly, summoning all the imagination and creativity genuinely progressive people possess to a quite advantageous degree over "the opposition."

    Of course, we will end up with "values" and "aspirations" that are more like the opposition than not (a great irony of all the right wing vitriol currently being spewed), as we are all people who would rather thrive than not.  We all love our children and want a better world for them.  We all have a survival instinct, as all living creatures do, from the most complex to the single cell variety. We all want what makes us happy.  And that is food, shelter and love, and the chance to do better.  To put a little extra in our and our family's and community's pockets for a little enjoyment or future security.

    The challenge will then be to argue -- convincingly and with great clarity, reason, equanimity and humor (always helps) -- for the progressive ROUTE to those desired results.  For a route not on its knees and beholden to private wealth and power.  And that will entail and almost wholesale reselling of the idea of democratic governance.  Genuine governance, that is.  Which requires more of its citizens that our current paradigm would ever really want, as corrupted as it has become by the influence of Big Money.

    Please! (5.00 / 5) (#4)
    by DancingOpossum on Tue Mar 23, 2010 at 01:24:44 PM EST
    Oh NOES!! Please not this:

    a more progressive Democratic caucus

    We've had all the progressivism and Democraticism we can stand!!! No more please!!

    Bowers point about ... (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by Robot Porter on Tue Mar 23, 2010 at 01:28:17 PM EST
    Obama not being better off with a Republican Congress is worth examining:

    In fact, it is just as plausible that something entirely different that either 1995-1996 or 2007-2008 could happen if Republicans take control of the House next year.  The point is that just because political events unfolded a certain way in the past doesn't mean they would unfold that way in the future.

    And it's worth noting that the 1995-1996 scenario depended on a politician (Bill Clinton) who was a master of the political comeback.  

    Most politicians aren't masters of the comeback.

    Another likely scenario is the 1979-1980 one.  The '78 congressional elections saw a slip from 61 to 58 seats in the Senate, and a loss of 15 seats in the House.  Not a major power shift, but it set the stage for the 1980 election.

    And Obama seems much more comparable to Jimmy Carter than Bill Clinton. Like Carter, Obama came out of nowhere to win the presidency.  He started with a lot of promise only to fizzle, and lay the groundwork for another 12 years of Republican presidents.

    Obama may have more game than Carter (none / 0) (#10)
    by Manuel on Tue Mar 23, 2010 at 02:00:29 PM EST
    There is no denying that this was a political win for Obama.  Of course, congress is relatively weaker now vis a vis the president than it was in Carter's time (or even Clinton's).

    Parent
    We will see. (5.00 / 5) (#15)
    by Buckeye on Tue Mar 23, 2010 at 02:13:59 PM EST
    There is a big risk that I do not think progressives in the house or senate thought through.  If this policy works, Obama will have proven progressives wrong, we can solve the health care problem without public insurance.  If the bill fails and our health care system is a mess several years from now (sky high premiums, deficit constraints, not getting to universal coverage, etc.), progressives/liberals will shoulder the blame.  Why?  Because this bill has been hailed as the greatest progressive victory since Medicare.  The entire Democratic party drove it Captain Ahab style with all progressives support.  Only 10% of the democratic party (conservatives) voted against it and the entire Republican party opposed it.  If this fails, the public will recoil from the democrats.  Republicans will win the message war stating that "we tried it their way, the liberal way, lets not go further down that path."  We could end up with a future state as envisioned by conservatives.

    My fear is that this could be a lose lose for liberals.  Obama's plan is great and progressivism is therefore wrong.  No credibility in the democratic party or with the American people.  Or, Obama's plan fails and the democrats shoulder the blame.  Progressives go down with them.

    Parent

    And don't forget the wonderful short-term strategy (5.00 / 4) (#16)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Mar 23, 2010 at 02:33:20 PM EST
    That is:

    It's a Republican bill, basically Romneycare with generous spicing of Nixon and Dole, so not only do Republicans get exactly what they want, they get to run against its unpopularity (and yes I've seen the Gallup poll today.  Rally around the flag, but people will change when the dust settles and someone shares that fine print that the newspapers somehow have yet to include).

    Yes, it's historic, the biggest Republican Machiavellian dirty trick EVUH!  Congratulations.  I hate Republicans, but I certainly respect them for being much better at politics than Democrats.

    Parent

    Not even enough Nixon-at least the Nixon of health (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by jawbone on Tue Mar 23, 2010 at 04:12:57 PM EST
    CARE.

    No, this is the St. Ronnie junk.

    Parent

    It's as concervative as the GOP alternatives (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by RonK Seattle on Tue Mar 23, 2010 at 04:30:07 PM EST
    ... to Clinton HCR, but this was cast in stone by 2007 or earlier, as all three leading Democratic presidential hopefuls signed on to such plans, more or less (and mostly less).

    That water is over the dam and a long way down the river.

    Today we face surprisingly good opportunities to move the peg in progressive directions, if we will focus on what lies ahead and not what lies behind.

    Parent

    Well, these things are never ... (none / 0) (#14)
    by Robot Porter on Tue Mar 23, 2010 at 02:07:55 PM EST
    one-for-one.  But Carter era scenario is worth looking at, if you're going to look at history for models.

    Parent
    I think we all know what the goal is, (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by Anne on Tue Mar 23, 2010 at 01:45:36 PM EST
    and many believed that was why it was so important that Dems build on their majority in the 2008 election.  Well, they did.  And?  Well, that and $8,000 will buy you a brand new insurance policy.

    So, how do you turn the goal into reality instead of something you dust off every two years to raise money with so you can guilt and scare people into voting for you?

    Well, riffing off Seinfeld, it seems they know how to identify the goals, but they don't know how to reach the goals.

    Or, is there a disconnect between what our goals are and what they are willing to settle for?

    I'm guessing that if they had all 535 seats in the Congress, the minority view would still win; maybe the answer is that the "progressives" and the conservatives need to duke it out to see which one is the minority and can wield all the leverage.  Nah, because as soon as they did that, the rules of this ridiculous game would change and the progressives would still be on the outside looking in.

    It's Bizarro World.

    The cake cutter (none / 0) (#13)
    by Manuel on Tue Mar 23, 2010 at 02:07:40 PM EST
    As long as the guy cutting the Cake (Obama, the Dem leadership) is centrist, the progressives will always get the smallest piece of cake possible (i.e. the bare minimum).  The only way to change that is to become the majority and reverse the roles.  I guess progressives could  defect but then they will get no cake at all.

    Parent
    Once again, the old (5.00 / 2) (#22)
    by shoephone on Tue Mar 23, 2010 at 02:59:55 PM EST
    "You have nowhere else to go" argument.

    Parent
    Where else can I go? (5.00 / 2) (#38)
    by Spamlet on Tue Mar 23, 2010 at 05:45:49 PM EST
    Disneyland.

    Or maybe I'll just stay home on election day.

    Parent

    Don't stay home (none / 0) (#41)
    by BDB on Tue Mar 23, 2010 at 06:31:25 PM EST
    They'll rationalize your staying home and make their failure your fault - you were too lazy to vote.  Instead, show up and put in an empty ballot.  Shows it's not laziness, you're perfectly willing to vote, just not for the awful candidates either party is putting forth (or, if available, go third party).

    Parent
    Who cares? They always blame Real Libs anyway (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by Ellie on Wed Mar 24, 2010 at 04:17:15 AM EST
    As a bona fide, card-carrying 'F*ckin' Ret@rd' [/Obama's Chief of Staff] and Typical Racist White Bitter Knitter Clinging to Guns and Religion Yet Also (paradoxically) An Ultra-Lefty Abortion Extremist and Ideological Purist [/Obama] ...

    -- what worse insults can the RW nutjobs heap on top of those? That's a high incline for those p!ssants to climb, and toil enough in itself, doncha think?

    And why would I give a d@mn WHAT they called me?

    As for Dems continuing to blame me and other under-bus'd galley slaves for their own failures, gosh, let me block time to give a sh!t -- nope, don't see any openings till '12. I'm liking the Stay Home option for '10, and the '12 third party candidacy or Present/A. Bore ticket.

    Parent

    BTW BDB I'm heartily agreeing with you :-) (none / 0) (#48)
    by Ellie on Wed Mar 24, 2010 at 04:33:45 AM EST
    ... in my venom-spewing sarcasm-ridden post and advance apologies if any got on you in the process.

    Parent
    Professional / Managerial Pathetics & Sell (none / 0) (#39)
    by seabos84 on Tue Mar 23, 2010 at 06:24:16 PM EST
    Outs are a huge part of the "base" of the Democratic Party.

    The base is NOT people who knifed strike breaker tires or were cracking skulls in strike lines - it is a cla$$ of people who've been successful at doing the right high school and doing the right SAT scores and doing the right essay and doing the right college and doing the right zip code and doing the right grad school -

    they're people who've $ucceeded at following the rule$, so how much boat rocking are the gonna do, versus going along to get along, and, 'we'll get 'em next time'!

    Electing MORE go along get alongs ain't gonna matter much.

    I do NOT know the answer.  IF I had a dollar for every time in my 50 years I was called bitter, angry, negative, cynical ... for pointing out the clique-ishness of the $alon cla$$, I'd have enough money to unemploy patty murray in WA. (this was before I learned my eloquence and moderation).

    I have a hunch that if we had 20% ++ unemployment for another 5 years, give or take, we might be in a position where the go along get alongs aren't so influential as they're be people in the streets ready for more than powerpoint meetings ...

    this is NOT a future I'm hoping for.

    rmm.

    Parent

    Honestly (5.00 / 10) (#7)
    by BDB on Tue Mar 23, 2010 at 01:47:25 PM EST
    After the last two years, if I never hear the word "progressive" again it will be too soon.  

    Wake me when we have a liberal or lefty caucus.  Until then, it doesn't really matter because the results will be the same - more corporatism (but, hey, at least the progressives feel really, really bad about selling out to corporations).

    You and me both... (5.00 / 5) (#11)
    by Anne on Tue Mar 23, 2010 at 02:01:37 PM EST
    I hesitate every time I type the word - I just hate it; I've gotten to the point where I find the term offensive.

    When liberals ran screaming from that term," and adopted the squishier "progressive," they seem to have forgotten that they weren't supposed to run from the ideology and conviction, too, but I think that's what happened.  They were so cowed by being branded radical, so afraid of being demonized, that they opted to back off, dial down the rhetoric, show people they were "reasonable,"  instead of working harder to show people why their liberal ideas were better.  

    Allowing Obama to be branded a leftist-bordering-on-socialist - something he isn't even close to being - is about defining where the center is, which pushes the Overton window farther to the right.

    And our brilliant Democratic strategists seem incapable of countering this kind of psy-ops.

    Parent

    "Overton window" is the term I (5.00 / 3) (#17)
    by oculus on Tue Mar 23, 2010 at 02:35:05 PM EST
    am tired of.

    Parent
    Then come up with another one. (none / 0) (#27)
    by Anne on Tue Mar 23, 2010 at 04:13:23 PM EST
    Maybe we could call it the Oculus Window?

    Parent
    Voila: (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by oculus on Tue Mar 23, 2010 at 04:31:08 PM EST
    Bravo! Pantheon of Rome with a fab view (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by bridget on Tue Mar 23, 2010 at 05:14:53 PM EST
    of the oculus :-)

    I spent quite some time in that building admiring and studying the architecture - wonderful interior. Stunning.

    Well, I just loved all my time in Rome. One of my favorite cities in Europe.

    Parent

    Gosh that makes me want to pack and go back (none / 0) (#47)
    by Ellie on Wed Mar 24, 2010 at 04:27:32 AM EST
    ... home.

    Parent
    Beaten to death! (none / 0) (#42)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Mar 23, 2010 at 09:51:08 PM EST
    I was never wild about defining such a concept in the blogosphere because then it creates its own institution of Overtonism. I'm fine calling it the common sense window and to fight when you need to fight.  No more debates and arguments about when the overton window is there and how big or small it is.......Buddha is laughing at us.

    Parent
    Isn't the idea which direction it moved (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by oculus on Tue Mar 23, 2010 at 10:23:15 PM EST
    and by how much?

    Parent
    Or how to move it (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Mar 23, 2010 at 10:41:20 PM EST
    Glenn Beck has a video explaining it.  When Glenn Beck starts writing on his magic blackboard about concepts I'm just about ready to be done using them :)  It's such an instant turn off :)

    Parent
    You have to be one (none / 0) (#40)
    by jondee on Tue Mar 23, 2010 at 06:25:41 PM EST
    to begin with in order to really sell out.

    What we've been getting for decades is people who attempt to manipulate others with the some of the symbolic rhetoric and trappings, while being still solidly under the thumb of the too big to fail.

    This didnt just start in 2008, either.

    Parent

    It's kind of a "marketing challenge" (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by mike in dc on Tue Mar 23, 2010 at 01:48:24 PM EST
    Progressives need to forge a strong brand ID, and then successfully pitch it and defend it in front of a broader audience.  A good start might be a 2-minute national ad laying out the benefits of the health care bill, aired starting in May, then once a month until election day--and then following up in the wake of a less-bad-than-expected outcome by pushing for more progressive reform, including incremental improvements in this health care bill, every year through 2014 and beyond.

    Gee (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by jbindc on Tue Mar 23, 2010 at 01:53:19 PM EST
    If we only had someone who was good at marketing something like, oh, a political candidate.  Then we'd need, oh, I don't know - a good spokesperson who was passionate about the subject. Someone who was comfortable speaking to large, diverse groups of people, and had a way with words.

    Hmmm.....maybe if looked on craigslist.....

    Parent

    IMO your comment is non-responsive (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by oculus on Tue Mar 23, 2010 at 02:35:35 PM EST
    to mike's thoughtful analysis.

    Parent
    My point was (none / 0) (#21)
    by jbindc on Tue Mar 23, 2010 at 02:55:29 PM EST
    They should have been doing this for a year.  NOW is not the time to create a "brand".

    Parent
    I agree ... (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by Robot Porter on Tue Mar 23, 2010 at 03:36:12 PM EST
    the biggest chance to create a viable new "progressive brand" was during the height of the financial crisis.

    Despite a lot of prodding, it didn't happen then.

    Can it happen now?  Maybe.  But all the momentum has gone.

    And HRC would be the worst way to do it.  The bill isn't progressive even in the loosest definition of the term.

    Financial reform is still the best area for progressives to get a new foothold. But I'm not holding my breath.  Activists aren't pushing hard enough.  And the politicians don't have the stomach for it.

    Parent

    It' still too easy (none / 0) (#25)
    by jondee on Tue Mar 23, 2010 at 04:00:16 PM EST
    for big money to commandeer the media and engineer consent.

    Just look at what that putz, schmendrick etc Pickens did with all those Swiftboat ads, or what Scaife and his pals did with that "Arkansas Project" during Clinton's tenure.

    Parent

    Brand Obama did create a brand re: Bankster Crisis (none / 0) (#28)
    by jawbone on Tue Mar 23, 2010 at 04:14:39 PM EST
    It's called Corporatism.

    It is anathema to Democrats of the Democrati Wing of the Democratic Party.

    Parent

    How about the way (none / 0) (#34)
    by jondee on Tue Mar 23, 2010 at 04:31:22 PM EST
    these yahoos (not you, Jim), apparently cant get enough media consolidation and are going berserk over the possibility of a reinstatement of the Fairness Doctrine ( "it's an attack on free speech"!) Apparently what they want is some over-arching right wing version of Parvda, with a Ministry of Information and commissars.

    Parent
    Pravda (none / 0) (#36)
    by jondee on Tue Mar 23, 2010 at 04:37:37 PM EST
    First, there has to be some real interest (5.00 / 3) (#31)
    by Anne on Tue Mar 23, 2010 at 04:27:36 PM EST
    in the party strategists and representatives wanting to build a liberal party, when it is being led by someone who probably shudders at the very term.  

    Why would it be a good start to do infomercials about a product that isn't is use yet - isn't that how we got it in the first place?  

    I think I get the gist of your idea, but I find it unconscionable to continue to bamboozle the people any more than they already have been; people are so desperate for help in the area of health care that I would be ashamed and embarrassed to have taken advantage of that need for something that isn't likely to deliver.

    I think the chances of increasing the liberal bloc in the Congress are slim, really slim - because those in charge of the DSCC and the DCCC are not looking for liberals to run, and the money's going to go to center-right candidates who aren't likely to stir up any trouble for the powers-that-be.

    I don't know what the answer is; I have no better ideas.  I don't know what it wil take to lead people away from the center-right, but I know I could not in good conscience start by selling the crap out of a bad bill.

    Parent

    Nutshell (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by DancingOpossum on Tue Mar 23, 2010 at 02:38:17 PM EST
    In a nutshell (but I include each and every Dem in there with him):

    The problem with Obama is that far too many people..think of him as an ally who needs to be persuaded rather than an enemy who needs to be opposed.

    http://www.distantocean.com/

    "Enemy"? (none / 0) (#20)
    by Cream City on Tue Mar 23, 2010 at 02:55:18 PM EST
    Ugh.

    Just a guy who can be co-opted, and it's pretty easy to see what motivates him to be willing.

    Parent

    The bigger enemey to (none / 0) (#23)
    by jondee on Tue Mar 23, 2010 at 03:04:05 PM EST
    be opposed is the ANYTHING-to-increase-market-share predators, warmongers and religious nutcases who have basically bought the electoral system that sponsors candidates A, B and C.

    Parent
    Some liberal leaders are renouncing the Dem Party- (5.00 / 3) (#30)
    by jawbone on Tue Mar 23, 2010 at 04:21:33 PM EST
    Here's one*, Frances Kissling, former president of Catholics for Choice:

    "I for one have decided that I simply will not vote for another elected official until Hyde is overturned and I hope others will do the same. There is no reason for prochoice voters to accept Democratic pussyfooting around on repealing Hyde."

    I'm wondering if this anger will stay strong or fade, be muted by calls to save the House! Save Obama's presidency!

    Thoughts?

    (H/T Madamab at Correntewire.com)

    She is John the Baptist crying in the (5.00 / 5) (#35)
    by oculus on Tue Mar 23, 2010 at 04:32:47 PM EST
    wilderness.

    Parent
    Needs to be some getting the ducks in a row (none / 0) (#12)
    by vicndabx on Tue Mar 23, 2010 at 02:02:53 PM EST
    first.  As was evidenced by the posts here over the last few days (and I'm sure all over left-leaning websites) people need to be able to come together to create synergies and not diminish those they need to synergize with.  If all there ever is is a bunch of holier than thou rhetoric tossed about, the coalition will remain small.

    Majority or minority makes a difference? (none / 0) (#29)
    by RonK Seattle on Tue Mar 23, 2010 at 04:21:02 PM EST
    We have a governing coalition.

    Are "progressives" a majority or a minority of that coalition? I don't know. That's largely a matter of definition.

    Should "progressives" be a majority of the governing coalition? I don't know about that either. I'd rather we'd be a vanguard, a leading edge, pushing ideas whose time has not yet come.

    I do know that a progressive majority of a governing coalition won't control that coalition. The members most subject to defection or defeat will always have more leverage when it comes to bargaining out the details and direction of legislative packages.

    Let progressives be progressives, let coalitions be coalitions ... and learn from conservative strategists of today, who (like progressive strategist of earlier times) constantly study the political landscape, looking for tipping points and pressure points and fracture points, and often manage to move things in their direction by degrees despite their smaller numbers.