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Sunday News and Open Thread

President Obama has made a surprise trip to Afghanistan. I wonder if he'll be back in time for the White House Seder.

The New York Times has an editorial supporting 9th Circuit Appeals Court nominee Goodwin Liu, calling him exceptional.

Some convicted drug defendants in Mass. are likely to get new trials following the state's Supreme Court decision this week retroactively applying the U.S. Supreme Court decision in Commonwealth v. Melendez-Diaz, holding that chemists must appear in person at trial and be subject to cross-examination.

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

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  • Display: Sort:
    Why didn't Pres. Obama make a recess (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by oculus on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 12:22:05 PM EST
    appointment of Dawn Johnsen to OLC?

    Who Knows (none / 0) (#3)
    by squeaky on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 12:34:14 PM EST
    But she made it out of committee earlier this month:

    Following a month of delays, the Senate Judiciary Committee voted Thursday to send Dawn Johnsen, President Barack Obama's nominee to head the Justice Department's powerful Office of Legal Counsel (OLC), to the Senate floor. The OLC advises presidents on the limits of their power.

    The Senate panel voted 12-7 to report Johnsen out of committee, and some Republicans were vocal in their opposition.

    truthout

    No recess appointments were for the DOJ. Maybe Obama is going to make a political case over her to illuminate the Republican's obstructionism.

    Anyway is it good that her nomination process has moved to the next level.

    Parent

    Official Answer (none / 0) (#4)
    by squeaky on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 12:49:35 PM EST
    Of the 77 people on the calendar, we are only recess appointing 15 and there are a number of qualified individuals the President has nominated that do not fall in this group.  If the Republicans do not end their campaign of obstruction, the President reserves the option of exerting his authority to recess appoint qualified individuals in the future, but our hope is that we can move beyond the partisan politics that have held up the process for the last fifteen months for the good of the American people.

    via emptywheel

    Parent

    I knew all this. Wondering why (none / 0) (#5)
    by oculus on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 12:53:53 PM EST
    Johnsen was not amongst the 15.  Or why Pres. did not interim appoint all pending.

    Parent
    Another Possible Reason (none / 0) (#6)
    by squeaky on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 01:04:40 PM EST
    At least a political logic for the number 15:

    Other presidents have used that authority, with George W. Bush making 15 recess appointment by this point in his presidency and a total of 171 by the end, according to Congressional Research Service.

    NYT

    Sounds to me like he is trying to train the Republicans to sit and say yea.

    We'll see.

    In any case, many depend on these jobs being filled, not to mention those on the list, are quite pleased.

    But of course here at TL, reverse alchemy is favored when it comes to Obama: the art of turning gold into sh*t.  


    Parent

    Why extrapolate? (5.00 / 0) (#7)
    by oculus on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 01:06:01 PM EST
    Politics (none / 0) (#10)
    by squeaky on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 01:20:05 PM EST
    Yes, and at this point, (5.00 / 3) (#51)
    by KeysDan on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 03:48:00 PM EST
    smart politics for the president's first go around.  For the most part, the  lower profile, yet higher functionary appointments, underscore the obstructionism in play and may expedite appointments such as Dawn Johnson's or enable additional recess appointments wherever needed later.   Of course, George Bush gave John Bolton a recess appointment to the UN ambassadorship after bumping into confirmation problems, but the convenient and  short memories coupled with the long reach of the tea party celebrants on the rest of the Republican gang seem to make such actions inadvisable at this time

    Parent
    Looks like the Republicans (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 02:22:09 PM EST
    have trained Obama "to sit and say yea" (again), no? If he's only made 15 interim appointments because:
    Other presidents have used that authority, with George W. Bush making 15 recess appointment by this point in his presidency...


    Parent
    Huh? (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by squeaky on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 02:31:30 PM EST
    It would appear that this is a "warning shot". And it is politically measured so that GOP obstructionism can be used as a political cudgel.  

    But if you are correct, pretty soon almost all of Obama's nominees will get recess appointments.  

    Parent

    Don't hold your breath sweetie ;-) (3.00 / 2) (#37)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 02:52:06 PM EST
    The NLRB appointments (5.00 / 4) (#62)
    by christinep on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 04:14:43 PM EST
    are really important for labor and for liberals. Powerful appointments.

    Parent
    New head of Centers for (5.00 / 3) (#8)
    by Anne on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 01:10:14 PM EST
    Medicare and Medicaid Services set to be nominated:  Dr. Donald M. Berwick.

    The New York Times  reports that President Barack Obama will soon nominate Dr. Donald M. Berwick to "run Medicare and Medicaid, the programs that serve nearly one-third of all Americans, administration officials said Saturday. Dr. Berwick ... has repeatedly challenged doctors and hospitals to provide better care at a lower cost. He says the government and insurers can increase the quality and efficiency of care by basing payments on the value of services, not the volume. Mr. Obama plans to nominate Dr. Berwick to be administrator of the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, a unit of the Department of Health and Human Services that has been without a permanent chief since October 2006, when Dr. Mark B. McClellan stepped down" (Pear, 3/27).

    The Wall Street Journal reports that the "top post at the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services will be one of the most critical to implementing the president's health overhaul that became law this past week. ... Dr. Berwick runs the Boston-based Institute for Healthcare Improvement and is a pediatrics and health policy professor at Harvard University. His focus has been to improve patient safety by applying more systemized procedures to the medical field. ... If confirmed by the Senate, Dr. Berwick will face an enormous task in the new job. The agency must prepare for a massive expansion of the Medicaid federal-state insurance program starting in 2014. The program is expected to add some 16 million Americans by the end of the decade. ... For the Medicare insurance program for the elderly, the top challenge will be phasing in more than $400 billion in cuts over the next decade to health-care providers who participate in insurance program for the elderly without weakening it" (Adamy and Meckler, 3/27).

    The Associated Press reports: "The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services runs the government health care programs for seniors and the poor, providing benefits to an estimated 100 million people -- about 1 in 3 Americans. ... An administration official confirmed Obama's intentions on condition of anonymity because the president has not made his decision public. That announcement is expected soon" (Feller, 3/27).

    Kaiser Health News featured an interview with Dr. Berwick in November. It has been republished here.

    This is part of Kaiser Health News' Daily Report - a summary of health policy coverage from more than 300 news organizations.

    Here's another bio of Dr. Berwick that might be of interest:  Remaking American Medicine: Champions for Change.

    Here's info on the Institute for Healthcare Improvement, as well.

    This is an attention grabber: (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by oculus on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 01:21:15 PM EST
    For the Medicare insurance program for the elderly, the top challenge will be phasing in more than $400 billion in cuts over the next decade to health-care providers who participate in insurance program for the elderly without weakening it" (Adamy and Meckler, 3/27).


    Parent
    Never thought I'd see the day (5.00 / 4) (#42)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 03:06:56 PM EST
    when Democrats would applaud and defend the cutting of Medicare, even call it "progressive".

    Lawdie.

    Parent

    Really? (5.00 / 2) (#53)
    by squeaky on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 03:59:52 PM EST
    Well you were not paying attention, but surprise, surprise you are once again aligning with the GOP.

    AARP and other groups say the cuts are small enough to be absorbed without affecting services, and many health policy analysts tend to agree. But the size of the cuts is less relevant than the widespread calculation that health-care providers and their most frequent patients have much to gain from President Obama's overhaul of the nation's health system.

    Obama and other Democrats have assured seniors that the cuts will skim off a small margin of waste and inefficiency without affecting services. They say the cuts will actually strengthen a program that is rapidly outgrowing its primary source of funding -- the payroll tax -- and threatens to exhaust the surplus taxes accumulated in the Medicare trust fund by 2017. Cutting payments to providers, they argue, can help stabilize Medicare finances.

    That's what happened after the last major assault on Medicare spending, when Clinton and a Republican Congress approved a package of cuts remarkably similar to the one now on the table. The Balanced Budget Act of 1997 was expected to save $112 billion over five years -- a 9 percent reduction in projected spending on par with the 10 percent in the Baucus bill. The cuts wound up saving so much more than expected that Congress reversed some of them in 1999 and 2000, said Jon Gabel, a senior fellow at the National Opinion Research Center.

    WaPo

    Phase-Out Excessive Medicare Overpayments to HMOs and Other Managed Care Plans ($10 billion in net savings): Independent study after study has concludedthat the current policy is overpaying participating managed care plans. Overpayment reduces Medicare Trust Fund solvency and raises premiums for Medicare beneficiaries. This reform would achieve substantial savings and would include policies to improve access to programs that provide cost-sharing protections to low-income beneficiaries (e.g., revise overly restrictive asset-test rules).

    link PDF

    Parent

    And you are "aligning" with who, WaPo? (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 04:10:47 PM EST
    Sine when has WaPo become an honest broker and a dedicated advocate for the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party?

    Parent
    WaPo (5.00 / 2) (#64)
    by squeaky on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 04:22:41 PM EST
    Well considering that the $400 billion quote, in Anne's comment came from WSJ, I'll take WaPo reporting and AARP's assessment, rather than start bedwetting about death panels.

    Parent
    If you're going to pay homage to WaPo, (5.00 / 2) (#87)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 05:19:26 PM EST
    why not go with the headline - On Medicare Spending, a Role Reversal: Republicans, Not Interest Groups, Fight Plans to Cut $400 Billion Over 10 Years.

    Predictably, you neglect to mention that the Obama DINOs have handed the GOP the PR victory of a life-time. However, WaPo is trumpeting that victory far and wide:

    After years of trying to cut Medicare spending, Republican lawmakers have emerged as champions of the program, accusing Democrats of trying to steal from the elderly to cover the cost of health reform.

    The hospital associations, AARP and other powerful interest groups that usually howl over Medicare cuts have also switched sides. Last week, they stood silent as the Senate Finance Committee debated a plan to slice more than $400 billion [$464 billion in cuts] over the next decade from Medicare, the revered federal insurance program for people over 65, and Medicaid, which also serves many seniors... The mild response to the cuts demonstrates the strategic value of Obama's decision to ally with groups that have blocked efforts to change the program in the past. Seniors, however, are far less sanguine.

    Americans 65 and over have long been among those most critical of Obama's reform plans, and a key factor is their concern about Medicare, according to an  ABC News-Washington Post poll conducted this month. Fifty-six percent of seniors said they thought reform would weaken the Medicare program. With seniors likely to make up nearly 20 percent of the electorate in 2010, Republicans see Medicare as a potent campaign issue. In the Finance Committee, GOP senators moved repeatedly to strip the spending cuts from the bill.

    Here's the crux of the matter: the Obama Administration could not have done a better job of ruining the Democratic brand and Democratic prospects for 2012, if they had tried. You can't buff this turd.

    Parent

    My Point Exactly (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by squeaky on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 05:33:49 PM EST
    but surprise, surprise you are once again aligning with the GOP.


    Parent
    And WaPo posits that the DINO medicare/medicaid cuts will bite them in the @ss in 2012. Imo, WaPO is pimping for the GOP - but their underlying point is hard to dispute.

    In fact, plenty of Liberal Democrats share that assessment and it is perverse and simple-minded for anybody to natter on about how this means we are "aligning with the GOP". You can chase your tail some more on your own time - but not mine.

    Parent

    Touted? (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by squeaky on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 06:23:19 PM EST
    I linked to it and pointed out that the WSJ is worse.

    These cuts are no different from Clinton's cuts. The original fainting couch comment:

    Never thought I'd see the day (5.00 / 2) (#42)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 03:06:56 PM EST
    when Democrats would applaud and defend the cutting of Medicare, even call it "progressive".
    Lawdie.

    Is why I quoted the WaPo article, in order to point out that TeresaInSnow2 comment is absurd due to either ignorance or desire to promulgate revisionist history:

    Clinton and a Republican Congress approved a package of cuts remarkably similar to the one now on the table. The Balanced Budget Act of 1997 was expected to save $112 billion over five years -- a 9 percent reduction in projected spending on par with the 10 percent in the Baucus bill. The cuts wound up saving so much more than expected that Congress reversed some of them in 1999 and 2000...

    Not sure what you are up about. There is no disputing that the media is generally right wing, WaPo is looking more and more like WSJ every day.

    But to argue about the conservative corporate media, is a strawman here.

    Parent

    Understand that AARP (none / 0) (#76)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 04:48:13 PM EST
    is United Healthcare insurance corp.

    With the mandate and closing of the doughnut hole,
    how many new customers and money do you think Obama has given them???

    Follow the money. All this is.... is pay offs to the insurance people... Doubt me? Are they mad? No.

    Parent

    Tell it Mayo Clinic (none / 0) (#103)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 06:20:16 PM EST
    They no longer accept medicare because they can't afford to.

    Parent
    Have You Seen A Recent Report On This? (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by daring grace on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 07:07:47 PM EST
    Because the best info I could find dates from about 3 months ago and tells this a little differently.

    snip:

    From the Mayo Clinic Health Policy Blog from January, 5:

    Medicare and Mayo Clinic

    Mayo Clinic in Arizona Continues to Provide Care for Thousands of Medicare Patients

    Some recent media reports have inaccurately stated that Mayo Clinic in Arizona is no longer seeing any Medicare patients. This is not true.

    Rather, a five-physician Mayo Clinic Arizona family practice clinic in Glendale, Ariz., has opted out of Medicare as part of a Mayo Clinic time-limited trial that will be reviewed at its conclusion. This means that Medicare will no longer reimburse Mayo Clinic for primary care services at this specific primary care facility, not at Mayo Clinic in Arizona overall. This affects only primary care office visits for the five Mayo family practice physicians at this site. Specialty care, laboratory services, imaging studies and ancillary services at Mayo Clinic are still covered by Medicare. Current Medicare patients may continue receiving primary care at the Glendale clinic but will be required to pay out-of-pocket for office visits.



    Parent
    From the horse's mouth (none / 0) (#133)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 09:01:36 PM EST
    More than 3,000 patients eligible for Medicare, the government's largest health-insurance program, will be forced to pay cash if they want to continue seeing their doctors at a Mayo family clinic in Glendale, northwest of Phoenix, said Michael Yardley, a Mayo spokesman. The decision, which Yardley called a two-year pilot project, won't affect other Mayo facilities in Arizona, Florida and Minnesota.

    Link

    Let's see... One rejected patient is a tragedy, 3000 is a statistic....

    Hat tip to Old Joe S.

    Parent

    Right (5.00 / 1) (#137)
    by daring grace on Mon Mar 29, 2010 at 06:35:23 AM EST
    Your link To Bloomberg is to information from the same time period as mine to the Mayo Clinic Arizona site.

    I was wondering if Tracy was basing her comment on more recent info (and a final determination) than I could find myself.

    All the info out there that I saw about this was about it as a trial and was from about 3 months ago.

    The more recent info has cautious praise from Mayo for the health insurance reform process this month.

    Parent

    What's Your Solution? (none / 0) (#107)
    by squeaky on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 06:25:21 PM EST
    The cuts are part of what is (5.00 / 2) (#50)
    by Anne on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 03:41:21 PM EST
    paying for the new health bill, no?  So, it's going to happen - how and where they happen will be due in large part to whomever is guiding the process.

    As I read around about Dr. Berwick, he seems to be greatly focused on improving the quality of care delivered by hospitals, in particular; he seems committed to health care for all.  I have no problem with people getting better care, as long as that is not defined as less care; so far, Berwick doesn't seem to be of the "less is always better" mindset, which is good.

    This, from the IHI website, certainly doesn't sound death-panel-y:

    We aim to improve the lives of patients, the health of communities, and the joy of the health care workforce by focusing on an ambitious set of goals adapted from the Institute of Medicine's six improvement aims for the health care system: Safety, Effectiveness, Patient-Centeredness, Timeliness, Efficiency, and Equity. We call this the "No Needless List":

     No needless deaths
     No needless pain or suffering
     No helplessness in those served or serving
     No unwanted waiting
     No waste
     No one left out

    IHI works with health professionals throughout the world to accelerate the measurable and continual progress of health care systems toward these bold objectives, leading to breakthrough improvements that are truly meaningful in the lives of patients.

    We will be a recognized and generous leader, a trustworthy partner, and the first place to turn for expertise, help, and encouragement for anyone, anywhere who wants to change health care profoundly for the better.

    Dr. Berwick is also on the Board of Directors of Physicians for Human Rights, whose mission statement is:

    Our Mission

    Physicians for Human Rights mobilizes health professionals to advance health, dignity and justice, and promotes the right to health for all. Harnessing the specialized skills, rigor, and passion of doctors, nurses, public health specialists and scientists, PHR investigates human rights abuses and works to stop them.

    Our research takes us to conflict zones, to AIDS-ravaged Africa, to US prisons and immigration detention centers -- and our advocacy brings us to the offices of national and international policymakers. The courts, decision makers and the media have come to rely on our credibility and expertise. Motivated by moral urgency, based on science, and anchored in international human rights standards, PHR's advocacy advances global health and protects human rights.

    PHR is building a new movement for human rights based on the solid foundation of over two decades of investigation, advocacy and accomplishment.

    From everything I'm reading, Dr. Berwick would appear to be someone who believes deeply in health care for all, delivered efficiently, and with respect; if Medicare cuts are coming, and Medicaid has to be shephered through an expansion, I'm not sure there is anyone better to make sure that patient care is not what suffers.

    Fingers crossed, this looks to be an excellent appointment by Obama.

    Parent

    Yes, Dr. Berwick has, (5.00 / 4) (#63)
    by KeysDan on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 04:18:54 PM EST
    in my view, a great perspective on health care, as illustrated by his thinking on the meaning of "patient-centered care".  While not undervaluing errors or unreliability of some aspects of health care, nor re-aligning himself against technology, he considers a great flaw to be the indignity knowingly or unknowingly inflicted upon the sick.  The  sense of helplessness and loss of influence over one's self, references by hospital staff to the patient by first or nicknames, including as  the guy in ICU-4, as small examples, need to give way to patient-centric health care delivery.  These are pretty good core values for the job for which he has been nominated.

    Parent
    Anne you are quite Right (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by samsguy18 on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 05:49:41 PM EST
    Dr.Berwick is very respected. I am thrilled.


    Parent
    He is also for good and hates evil (4.25 / 4) (#72)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 04:39:36 PM EST
    Face it.

    If there are fraud savings to be had why hasn't someone gotten them?

    Please repeat after me.

    You Cannot Cut $400 Billion Out Of Medicare Without Inducing Rationing.

    Parent

    Clinton Did It (none / 0) (#99)
    by squeaky on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 06:01:12 PM EST
    You Cannot Cut $400 Billion Out Of Medicare Without Inducing Rationing.

    Really? How come Clinton could do it?

    The BBA (Balanced Bugdet Act 1997) helped to eliminate the deficit, created the State Children's Health Insurance Program, and reduced and restructured Medicare and Medicaid payments to health care providers.....

    ..The BBA's fiscal discipline and our success in fighting fraud, waste, and abuse have greatly improved the status of the Medicare Trust Fund, which is now projected to remain solvent until 2025, 26 years beyond where it was just 8 years ago. The prospective payment systems mandated by the BBA are particularly important because they create incentives to provide care efficiently.

    link

    Parent

    Clinton was President how many years (5.00 / 1) (#104)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 06:22:45 PM EST
    ago?  The ratio of the now existing Medicare payment and the Medicare writeoff for the healthcare facility is what now....in this day and this age?  Like I posted above, tell it to Mayo Clinic....they can't afford to take medicare any longer and that was before anyone started cutting.  

    Parent
    Let's be clear (5.00 / 2) (#122)
    by CoralGables on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 07:28:56 PM EST
    This from the Mayo Clinic:


    Some recent media reports have inaccurately stated that Mayo Clinic in Arizona is no longer seeing any Medicare patients. This is not true.

    Rather, a five-physician Mayo Clinic Arizona family practice clinic in Glendale, Ariz., has opted out of Medicare as part of a Mayo Clinic time-limited trial that will be reviewed at its conclusion.



    Parent
    To be clearer (none / 0) (#124)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 07:54:25 PM EST
    Mayo Clinic lost $840 million accepting medicare last year.  They are now testing the water trying to figure out how to not continue to have this happen.

    Parent
    That's fine (5.00 / 1) (#130)
    by CoralGables on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 08:39:35 PM EST
    but let's not claim the Mayo clinic isn't accepting Medicare when it only holds for 5 family practice physicians in Glendale, AZ, while all of the Mayo hospitals continue to accept Medicare. It's very misleading.

    Parent
    It is a pilot program (none / 0) (#132)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 08:50:19 PM EST
    where Mayo clinic is doing a study of not taking medicare.  When it was first reported that was not clarified but I don't feel that that light is any better and is in fact in some ways worse.  They lost 840 million dollars and now Obama is cutting medicare even deeper.  I tend to see things from that old perspective of sitting in my office in the hospital business office reconciling the medicare check that came in.  The write offs that the hospital had to make would set your hair on fire if YOU had to accept that repayment and like it.  Things are now even worse than they were ten years ago.  I'm not sure where they will take these cuts, but some sort of reimbursement to prop up providers is going to have to happen and happen very soon.

    Parent
    Yeah (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by squeaky on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 04:01:43 PM EST
    The teabaggers are all over it...

    Parent
    There it is! (none / 0) (#61)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 04:14:30 PM EST
    Obama and the DINOs have paved the way for the GOP to emerge as the faux-defenders of Medicare and related so-called "entitlement" programs.

    That didn't take long did it?

    Parent

    That would primarily be Medicare Advantage (5.00 / 3) (#57)
    by christinep on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 04:06:11 PM EST
    program initiated during the Bush era. BTW, that program--similar to the (in)famous donut hole drug catch 22--is known for $issues in "waste, fraud, and abuse." At least, that is my understanding, oculus.

    Parent
    No cuts in benefits (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by MKS on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 05:27:37 PM EST
    just elimination of an insurance middleman....

    Parent
    hmm.. would hemlock help? (none / 0) (#22)
    by observed on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 02:29:22 PM EST
    Yes (none / 0) (#30)
    by squeaky on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 02:35:09 PM EST
    You, Palin, and oculus have been right all along. There are now death panels in place. Most likely payback from Obama.  

    Guess all those elderly will think twice next time around, about voting for Hillary.... if they get reincarnated that is...

    Parent

    Ever notice how Squeaky brings up Hillary (5.00 / 5) (#58)
    by shoephone on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 04:08:57 PM EST
    ad nauseum?

    Parent
    Yeah (5.00 / 2) (#69)
    by squeaky on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 04:31:09 PM EST
    Well someone has to make visible the invisible predicate on most of the comments from those here, who voted for Hillary yet refused to vote for Obama.

    Parent
    Fairytale predicates ... (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by Yman on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 05:08:45 PM EST
    ... usually are invisible.

    Parent
    If people would admit their (5.00 / 3) (#85)
    by MKS on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 05:13:32 PM EST
    bias, there could be a much better discussion here.  Failure to admit that, means we just revisit it all over again......even though it is not articulated.

    Parent
    When you take into account (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 08:08:10 PM EST
    Johari's Window, I'm not exactly sure who needs to admit what bias at this point or any point, debate is debate.

    Parent
    How do you know how anybody voted (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 07:50:50 PM EST
    first of all?  Secondly, so what.....some progressives did not feel well served by Obama and some still don't.  Thirdly, the need for factual debate exists and it is okay to question the powers that run everything....and it is also needed. Jeralyn is very antiwar, there are postings in this thread questioning whether or not Afghanistan is necessary or even our war.  This family just finished up an Afghanistan deployment.  We have each put our pound of flesh on that chopping block, but you don't see me pissing on the debate because that debate is needed and will always be there.  And when the debate isn't needed it won't exist in any meaningful manner.

    Parent
    Debate? (5.00 / 1) (#128)
    by squeaky on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 08:33:14 PM EST
    Anne posted something positive about Obama and the pile on happened. Funny thing is many here assumed that she was criticizing Obama for stealing  $400bln from poor defenseless elderly.

    Hardly debate what goes on here, as the site has devolved into an Obama pinata site.

    Parent

    I think some people are often over the top (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 08:43:32 PM EST
    in certain criticism of Obama, but geezzzzz...I'm sure that some of my criticisms of him have seemed over the top to others.  This site does not exist though for my own personal pleasure to reflect back to me the exact vision of liberal or progressive or democratic blogging I desire.  Secondly, this is blogging...it is yakking in cyberspace and when people are allowed to yak all sorts of things are said.  Some of which inspires me, or give me pause, or teaches me something, or flutters the neurons, but it is yakking.

    Parent
    Sorry, MT, but you are out of line (5.00 / 1) (#134)
    by Spamlet on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 09:25:05 PM EST
    It is an article of faith for Team Obama that your vote for their idol is owed, not earned.

    Parent
    Case In Point (5.00 / 1) (#136)
    by squeaky on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 10:05:32 PM EST
    It is an article of faith for Team Obama...

    Cultists.. all of them


    Parent

    Yeah, but what's .... (5.00 / 2) (#81)
    by Yman on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 05:07:52 PM EST
    ... really funny is how he then goes on to admonish others for their obsession with Hillary, the primary, cultists, blah, blah, blah ...

    I bet if Anne posted a recipe for meatloaf, he'd contort himself into a response dealing with Hillary.

    Parent

    Did Hillary have a recipe for meatloaf (none / 0) (#83)
    by MKS on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 05:11:59 PM EST
     

    Parent
    Yes (5.00 / 2) (#89)
    by Spamlet on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 05:21:38 PM EST
    Hillary's Democratic Meatloaf combines ingredients from California, Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Texas, Arkansas, South Dakota, Tennessee, Kentucky, Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, New York, New Jersey, New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Puerto Rico, and American Samoa. Her meatloaf also includes ingredients from Florida and Michigan, but new Democrats omit those in favor of a lighter, less substantial Democratic meatloaf.

    That should satisfy everyone who wants to obsess today over Hillary, the primaries, and/or meatloaf.

    </s>

    Parent

    I believe Squeaky is a "she," (none / 0) (#84)
    by shoephone on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 05:12:05 PM EST
    not a "he."

    Agree about the meatloaf recipe, however.

    Parent

    Where's the DNA on that? (none / 0) (#90)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 05:21:45 PM EST
    Huh, ... (none / 0) (#119)
    by Yman on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 07:03:17 PM EST
    ... go figure.

    Parent
    Asleep? (none / 0) (#120)
    by squeaky on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 07:06:26 PM EST
    On automatic, or just not paying attention?

    Parent
    Sorry, ... you already did that? (none / 0) (#126)
    by Yman on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 07:58:11 PM EST
    Could you post  link, please?

    I love meatloaf!

    Parent

    "Squeaky...ad nauseam", that works ;-) (none / 0) (#88)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 05:21:01 PM EST
    Got Hyperbolic? (5.00 / 3) (#106)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 06:24:14 PM EST
    Umm (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by squeaky on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 06:28:45 PM EST
    Is your hyperbole meter only set when used in response to the anti-Obama crowd?
    hmm.. would hemlock help? (none / 0) (#22)
    by observed on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 02:29:22 PM EST

    Must be, or you too have taken on too much kool aid.


    Parent

    whaaaaaaa! (5.00 / 3) (#110)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 06:32:16 PM EST
    You pop up all the time around here to tell everyone that desires to take an objective look at an issue what a P-word they are and then whine when you get a love tap.

    Parent
    Love Tap? (none / 0) (#114)
    by squeaky on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 06:37:16 PM EST
    Sorry Militarytracy, I am not feeling the love from you, been gone for quite some time.

    And I am hardly whining, just amused by your now predictable comments. And I do accept the fact that things change, so it goes...

    Parent

    What is your deal? (5.00 / 7) (#115)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 06:40:16 PM EST
    Seriously?

    Parent
    No Deal (none / 0) (#116)
    by squeaky on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 06:51:39 PM EST
    I call em as I see em. If you want to call me out for hyperbole, when I respond to a comment about taking hemlock, fine. But do not expect me not to question your judgement.

    And to call it a love tap, well, as I said, I have not been feeling the love from you in some time.

    Parent

    What do you see? (5.00 / 3) (#125)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 07:57:13 PM EST
    What are you calling?  I called it a love tap because it seems to be your definition of love handed back to you.  Everytime I attempt to read a thread lately with you in it...attack B.S. envelopes the whole deal.

    Parent
    OK (none / 0) (#129)
    by squeaky on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 08:35:08 PM EST
    Well if that is the way you see it, fine. We do not agree.

    Parent
    What's your suggestion for cutting (none / 0) (#31)
    by observed on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 02:36:35 PM EST
    $400 billion without hurting the quality of care?
    I know mine will work. Will yours?

    Parent
    How about (none / 0) (#39)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 03:01:14 PM EST
    a "don't take a pill get a puppy" campaign.

    Puppy food costs far less than medical care.

    And yes, I AM kidding, but it's a nice alternative to hemlock ;-).  And if elderly patients forego medical treatment long enough in favor of puppies, they won't NEED hemlock.

    Parent

    Death Panels are Starting to Look Appealing (none / 0) (#41)
    by squeaky on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 03:06:41 PM EST
    How old are you?

    Parent
    The more appropriate question (3.00 / 2) (#45)
    by observed on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 03:18:47 PM EST
    is how stupid are you?
    Get a clue.

    Parent
    Irony impaired and illiterate (3.00 / 2) (#47)
    by observed on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 03:23:36 PM EST
    ( I didn't say I approved of hemlock---I just said it will work. Duh. Hope and change won't work, so I asked what you thought would work. Sorry to the rest of you I had to spell it out for the dullard).

    Parent
    Yes, or as the NYT article by Robert Pear (none / 0) (#26)
    by KeysDan on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 02:32:58 PM EST
    puts it: "the law will....squeeze nearly a half-trillion dollars out of Medicare in the next 10 years and establish many demonstration projects to test innovative ways of delivering health care."  It seems to me that Dr. Berwick is an excellent choice given the enormous task now ahead for both Medicaid and Medicare.  His scholarly background will be much needed in implementing those "savings without cuts" and to jettison the misleading Dartmouth Atlas and Gruber ideas of  'less care is better care' and retread it into 'less wrong care is better care'.  Moreover, his public health academic expertise should provide administrative guidance for demonstration projects in efficient and economic heath care delivery, especially, if he does not abandon linear studies completely in project evaluations.

    Parent
    This is the rot at the core... (none / 0) (#27)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 02:33:15 PM EST
    So no surprise, it took a DINO President to convince fauxgressives that it's a good idea to cut Medicare by $400 million over the next decade.

    Parent
    Depends on how they shave the (none / 0) (#48)
    by Radix on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 03:24:07 PM EST
    money. There's probably some fraud and waste going on that can be trimmed. So let's see what's on the chopping block, before we pass judgment.

    Parent
    good thing he's not cutting SS. (none / 0) (#29)
    by observed on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 02:34:30 PM EST
    ...yet.

    Parent
    Live book discussion of Yves Smith's ECONed (5.00 / 2) (#9)
    by lambert on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 01:12:54 PM EST
    From 2:00-4:00 PM EST (that is, now). I just say that Yves herself logged in, so do drop by...

    Corrente is hosting Yves Smith of Naked Capitalism (5.00 / 2) (#11)
    by jawbone on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 01:20:32 PM EST
    this afternoon from 2-4PM EDT.

    Click on this link to post questions for Yves Smith, read responses. The full title of her new book is ECONNED: How Unenlightened Self Interest Undermined Democracy and Corrupted Capitalism.

    Her blog is Naked Capitalism, always interesting if only for her Antidote du Jour feature.

    Corrente is worth every dime I send their way (5.00 / 3) (#13)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 01:27:37 PM EST
    I have been looking for small bloggers that represent me and then forking what would be campaign contributions to them. I'm not giving any money to any candidates until further notice.  I've been too ripped off and only bought myself a center right government.  I have instead decided to send those funds to good progressive bloggers fighting the hard progressive fight, and I will definitely continue to send funds to keep Corrente up and running.

    Parent
    Corrente is a blog I would like to know better,too (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by bridget on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 03:09:26 PM EST
    I  have been visiting it lately but am still trying to find my way around the site - it is set up a bit diff. - and there is just never enough time for me to figure it all out. But I do like what I see so far. And Hard progressive is what I am looking for as well.

    I still remember some of the Corrente bloggers from election 2008 when I spent more time on the net. But then I took almost a year off.

    I also would like my campaign contributions back and save some lives with it. I didn't support Obama but what difference did it make ... IMO my $$$ were nothing but thrown out of the window.

     

    Parent

    A new recipe for Lemon Cream Pie. (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by lentinel on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 01:54:40 PM EST
    Sometimes people share recipes here.

    This is one I saw Marshall Efron do years ago.
    It has survived and is now on YouTube.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHLPm5XHDPw

    I bought some leeks today (5.00 / 3) (#23)
    by observed on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 02:31:01 PM EST
    the discussion of braising with leeks and pumpkins made me hungry for the Welsh national vegetable.


    Obama's speech to the troops (5.00 / 3) (#32)
    by MKS on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 02:38:55 PM EST
    in Afghanistan was very moving.....the most moving speech I have heard him give.....

    It weaved in his overall view of "coming together" with the need to fight Al Qaeda.  He referred to "violent extremists" instead of the "Islamic fascists" that the Neocons preferred--but that is not new.

    Obama sounded authoritative.  It was an excellent speech.....And for all you critics, let me save you the trouble:  it was hopey changey meets Afghanistan.....

    But given the very real stakes and losses there, it had a particularly strong impact.....It appears they have been working on this speech for quite some time....

    As to the merits of the Afghanistan strategy, I do have concerns......The magnitude of the escalation was surprising and gave me the willies.  But Biden's plan just seemed more wishful thinking than anything else.....

    And, I love what Obama is doing with Netanyahu--the right-wingers in Israel need to stop mucking things up.

    Hope and change to the troops (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by Cream City on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 03:11:35 PM EST
    is appropriate.  Not lies; they would see through those in an Afghanistan minute.

    But hope for change is about all that they have there many a day.  May they come back safe and soon.  (Disclosure: I know some who are there, and they could use some light at the end of that tunnel.)

    Parent

    Thanks for the note. (none / 0) (#33)
    by observed on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 02:40:51 PM EST
    There's no question that Obama's approach to Afhganistan is not casual; he really believes what he's doing is right.
    Telling Karzai to stop corruption could be a positive step, too.

    Parent
    Did Obama say anything to the troops about (none / 0) (#46)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 03:22:37 PM EST
    the newly leaked CIA propaganda plan for our war in Afghanistan (via Greenwald). "The memo is a recipe for the targeted manipulation of public opinion in two NATO ally countries":
    This classified CIA analysis from March, outlines possible PR-strategies to shore up public support in Germany and France for a continued war in Afghanistan. After the Dutch government fell on the issue of dutch troops in Afghanistan last month, the CIA became worried that similar events could happen in other countries [snip].

    The proposed PR strategies focus on pressure points that have been identified within these countries. For France it is the sympathy of the public for Afghan refugees and women. For Germany it is the fear of the consequences of defeat (drugs, more refugees, terrorism) as well as for Germany's standing in the NATO.

    The Report highlights the unique ability of Barack Obama to sell war to European populations...

    Has anybody seen anything about this story in the mainstream domestic print media, or on TV news programs?

    Parent

    Interesting (5.00 / 2) (#52)
    by MKS on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 03:56:41 PM EST
    PR efforts are nothing new.....That is why Gloria Steinem was on the CIA payroll for awhile....

    If you do not believe we should be in Afghanistan, then you will be against efforts to sway public opinion to support the effort.....

    It was revealing to see the FOX news reaction to Obama's visit to Afghanistan:  the anchors were ashen-faced, and they just had a piece on about how this is not a gamechanger for Obama--why even broach the question unless the visit was very successful and you want to diminish that?

    Parent

    So you take Fox at "ashen-faced" value? (none / 0) (#68)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 04:27:35 PM EST
    Say no more.

    Parent
    No, I do not accept (5.00 / 2) (#77)
    by MKS on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 04:51:46 PM EST
    what FOX says at face value--if that is what you were suggesting....

    I do find their reactions to things very interesting because they are so inherently biased and anti-Obama.

    If you think we should withdraw from Afghanistan, then I suppose you would be unimpressed by Obama's visit.....A discussion of the merits of the current strategy in Afghanistan would be interesting.....

    Parent

    The new strategy in Afghanistan (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by bridget on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 06:34:17 PM EST

    the following article is a MUST READ:

    WHAT IS BEHIND THE NEW MISSION IN AFGANISTAN?

    A new concept of justice
    Mike Prysner

    http://www.counterpunch.org/prysner03122010.html

    Parent

    We're in Afghanistan for the oil? (5.00 / 1) (#140)
    by MKS on Mon Mar 29, 2010 at 12:55:30 PM EST
    That's just not credible....

    I'm not sure how much oil is there--if any....And, there are so many more ways, much easier ways, of getting oil....

    Parent

    For oil and then some .... think POWER over the (none / 0) (#141)
    by bridget on Mon Mar 29, 2010 at 06:14:10 PM EST
    whole region. Why do you think there are still over 200 US military bases in Germany, one of the most loyal and closest ally the US could ever wish for? Not oil, obviously. Remember the hate of Germany when Chancellor Schroeder refused to participate in the Iraq war? How he was ignored by the Prez? How Germany was ridiculed and hated by the media? After over 60 years you can say Germany is still an US occupied country.

    I urge you to read the article. You won't hear the truth in the mainstream news but why waste your time with the village people anyway. Ever heard of Noam Chomsky? Readreadread!

    Here are just a couple paragraphs from above article:

    clip

    "Afghanistan itself is rich in natural resources, and is in a key location for hugely lucrative oil pipelines. But more valuable is its positioning in the region, giving U.S. imperialism a crucial foothold to exert dominance over Central Asia, shifting the balance of power in favor of U.S. interests.

    Permanent military bases in Afghanistan would allow Washington to dominate the region, in particular the natural gas-rich former Soviet republics of Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan. Afghanistan's western border is the Caspian Sea coast directly across from Azerbaijan, also brimming with oil profits. Each of these countries has a wealth of natural resources to be plundered by U.S. capital......"

    ---
    P.S. btw I am always been amazed why bloggers just don't understand the reason for the US military bases worldwide.  
     

    Parent

    We are in Germany (none / 0) (#144)
    by MKS on Mon Mar 29, 2010 at 06:59:42 PM EST
    in part because Germany wants us there....They freaked out when it was suggested we might move some of our troops home....

    Want to know why?  $$$$$$   Germany wants GIs spending money in their country.  It is not some nefarious plot to undermine German independence.  We are there in part to help them economically.

    Chomsky is hit and miss.....It is not US Imperialism--and when you go that angle, you ignore the strength of the right wingers and lose credibility.....There are credible attacks on GOP and right wing views on foreign policy.....which views are rooted primarily in fear and religious zeal, not the desire to expand trade advantages....

    If it were mere trade issues, U.S. businesses could find a less risky and more efficient and low key way to take advantage of others--they always do.....You lose the impact of your critique by going the conspiracy route....

    Parent

    Well, you keep on believing .... I don't care (1.00 / 1) (#146)
    by bridget on Mon Mar 29, 2010 at 10:01:34 PM EST
    but everything you wrote is either WRONG or confused. US Mainstream news seems to be your source.

    e.g. How many years have you lived in Germany?  I doubt your fluent German helped you come to your nonsense conclusions? Its US mainstream cable all the way.

    Conspiracy route? Now that one is new to me. Sounds like someone is projecting big time.

    Like I said before, this conversation was useless from the start and a waste of my time ..... but I tried.

    Ok, I am done.

    Parent

    You would accept the UK Guardian (none / 0) (#147)
    by MKS on Mon Mar 29, 2010 at 10:48:17 PM EST
    as a source, I assume?  It is by reputation very liberal.

    Here is what they say:

    America is to punish Germany for leading international opposition to a war against Iraq. The US will withdraw all its troops and bases from there and end military and industrial co-operation between the two countries - moves that could cost the Germans billions of euros.
    The plan - discussed by Pentagon officials and military chiefs last week on the orders of Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld - is designed 'to harm' the German economy to make an example of the country for what US hawks see as Chancellor Gerhard Schröder's 'treachery'.

    The U.S. uses its military to threaten Germany by withdrawing it and causing economic harm, not by using its force to directly threaten Germany.  You may be getting your information from a single source.

    Chomsky was right, notably, about Guatemala before the Catholic Church's Gerardi report and the UN Truth Commission's findings.  For that, I admire him.  He was also right about Iraq.  But he hits the same note for everything....and is in that respect captive to his own ideololgy.  

    Parent

    Just because the Guardian repeats Rumsfelds (none / 0) (#149)
    by bridget on Tue Mar 30, 2010 at 07:44:13 PM EST
    anger about Germany's chancellor whose decision was solidly supported by the German people btw - so what? He lacks diplomacy just like the present one who said that the allied soldiers are not doing a good job compared to the US soldiers. And Alone that Rumsfeld was threatening a country the way he did, should tell you volumes. The Iraq war is based on lies and Schroeder was smart enough to know that. He is now respected by the German people. Something Blair cannot say about himself. The UK is embarrassed by their former leader and the labor party is in grave danger to lose.

    So who cares about Rumsfeld threats. It may v. well be true what the Guardian writes. Rumsfeld may have said that in 2003 but guess what, the military bases are still there and economically Germany could care less if they are there or not. If one or two leaves, the country can use the space. Besides, Germany is far better off economically than the United States otherwise Merkel would have been out last year.  

    I am posting this because I recently talked with German friends and again today ... I mentioned the millions of US citizens who lost their homes and so on and so on. Problems Germany doesn't have.

    So In the meantime some of the military bases may have moved farther east. Closer to the former Soviet satellite countries. Also closer to Polen.

    Guess why that happens. It has nothing to do with Germany but everything to do with Russia. The US military bases are playing ring around the roses with Russia who are acting still v. cool about this so far. They know exactly what the US is up to and NATO can only push them so far ....

    P.S. Ever seen and heard the jet fighters fly low over the less populated German regions? Given people migraines and heart attacks? It would be great for the people if every one of those left. We experienced it for quite some time and I tell you, American citizens would not put up with that terrible noise.

    Parent

    Obama needs Fox to boost his bogus prog cred... (1.00 / 1) (#94)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 05:33:16 PM EST
    It's much easier to govern as a top-down corporatist when your self-declared detractors keep insisting you're a SOCIALIST.

    Likewise, it's much easier to govern as a top-down militarist when your self-declared detractors keep insisting you're all SOFT ON TERROR.

    Parent

    I doubt that very much ..... the truth is kept (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by bridget on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 06:03:57 PM EST
    a secret -  the truth is kept from the American citizens via mainstream news.

    I just listened to the Obama speech per video and I really had to force myself to stay with it to the very end esp. after he started out with:" We do not choose this  war ..."  Oh, for heavens sake! And He not only praised the soldiers for doing a great job figting the Afghan war but he actually opined that the Afghan people gratefully accepted all the killing and maiming.  

    So does anyone really believe that the few Al Quedas left over there (ca. 100) are plotting terrorist  attacks there right now? When in fact such a thing could be done all over the world? And all these 40.000 plus soldiers plus a huge amount of mercenaries, plus those horrible drones directed by guys sitting safely at their desks at home (all killing and maiming the Afghanistan people more than ever)are actually needed to defend the US from those few Al quedas who seem to never remain in the same area anyway?

    The Question to ask is:
    Why is Obama so eager to fight the Afghanistan war? This is a question that should be seriously discussed by everyone. Esp. by the congress and the media. And esp. by the American citizen because the question is a moral one. Soldiers and many Innocent People are dying. And for what?  

    I suggest to read the following article by
    RON JACOBS who writes:

    "Perhaps, there was once a time when most westerners could pretend that the US-led onslaught against the Afghan people was a good thing.  Perhaps they convinced themselves that because the government of that country had allowed Osama Bin Laden to live in the mountains there that there was reason enough to attack his neighbors and destroy what remained of their nation.  Perhaps, too, westerners (especially US citizens) believed that the true purpose of the US-led military mission in Afghanistan was to capture Bin Laden and destroy his terror network.

    Yes, perhaps there was a time when the facade of justice and righteous revenge provided enough of a moral veneer to the US war in Afghanistan that even intelligent westerners could live with the death and destruction occurring in their name.  However, that time is long past.  The war has gone on for more than eight years without any sign of cessation.  Indeed, since Barack Obama took up residence in the White House, the casualties in that war have spiked.  There are at least 40,000 more US troops in the country since that date last January and another thirty or forty thousand more getting ready to go there.  In addition, the number of mercenaries has similarly increased. The reasons provided for this escalation range from going after terrorists to creating a civil society.  As I write, another offensive against Afghans is being prepared..."

    read on
    (note that this article was written in February - more troops are being sent, more Afghan people are dead and injured).

     

    Parent

    Once again - get the hell out! (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by bridget on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 06:07:00 PM EST

    END THE WAR IN AFGHANISTAN
    Ron Jacob

    http://www.counterpunch.com/jacobs02112010.html

    Parent

    The American people could sure use (none / 0) (#111)
    by KeysDan on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 06:32:36 PM EST
    a good speech on Afghanistan war policy, including goals, objectives and plans for stabilization after troops leave, should they really do so.  A few clarifications would be instructive: al Qaeda v Taliban; for example.   Is this a civil war that we are in the middle of?  Is this war, given our limited resources and needs at home, the right priority?  What are our expectations for a coalition government with the Taliban,  we are financing the moderates to come on over, and Karzai will take any of them, if he can stay in power. Is the corrupt Karzai government just what we are looking for?  Is Afghanistan a proxy for Pakistan and Indian disputes?  Is killing civilians a good way to win the hearts and minds?  Why do we vacillate on the  burning of the poppy fields or  on cultivating them, depending on the day of the week?  Is it a good idea for the poppy revenues taken by the Taliban, with our knowledge, to fund the war against us?   Obviously, I feel that this is a wrongheaded policy, but supporters should, at least, be given better explanations than they have been given, in my view.  Of course, the supporters may know the answers.

    Parent
    There are problems with our (none / 0) (#139)
    by MKS on Mon Mar 29, 2010 at 12:32:02 PM EST
    being in Afghanistan....but there are significant risks in abandoning Afghanistan to the Taliban, which would allow Al Qaeda to flourish there once more.....

    I'm not sure we have any viable alternatives.....The Biden idea of leaving and then sending in our forces to strike isolated Al Qaeda bases would not really address the issues of civilian casualties.....there will still be some....and would allow Al Qaeda to grow stronger in Afghanistan....making it even more likely we would have to engage in combat in Afghanistan.

    I do see a difference between Iraq and Afghanistan....we have a better reason for being in Afghanistan, but in the long run Afghanistan may present a harder row to hoe.

    Parent

    I find it difficult to support wars (none / 0) (#148)
    by KeysDan on Tue Mar 30, 2010 at 11:39:11 AM EST
    that are not explained, or whose explanations are moving targets.  We are sending in another 30,000 troops to drive out the Taliban, but there is no way to hold those areas without an effective replacement government.  Yet, we will be bequeathing our military achievements to the Karzai government (or a successor, not much different)--and we know that Karzai is unreliable and corrupt.  After $l billion in training for Afghan forces, it is acknowledge that the results are disastrous.  After American lives lost, and billions more spent, the Karzai government will continue to be the best thing going for the Taliban.  But, even worse, Karzai is attempting to blackmail us with his cozying up to Ahmadinejad, and is more than willing to form a coalition with the Taliban, giving amnesty to top Taliban already.  So, after all is said and done, the Taliban are likely to come out on top and we on the bottom.  The fear of al Qaeda may be overblown, what with about 100 left in the country, and there efforts now disseminated across the globe. yes there must be alternatives to this boneheaded policy.

    Parent
    I read the linked article (none / 0) (#138)
    by MKS on Mon Mar 29, 2010 at 12:23:44 PM EST
    The key problem is that al Qaeda is and has been based in Afghanistan....

    The article mainly criticizes civilian deaths--a tragedy....but that does not answer what the correct strategy should be.....The Taliban appears resurgent and would most likely takeover Afghanistan should we leave.....That would lead to safe haven for Al Qaeda--it happened before, and there is no reason why it would not happen again.

    I was glad Obama announced our mission in Afghanistan as the fight against Al Qaeda, not making Afghanistan into a Western style democracy...so there appears to be a certain amount of realism in the strategy.

    Parent

    Let's forget it .... I am wasting my time (none / 0) (#142)
    by bridget on Mon Mar 29, 2010 at 06:24:53 PM EST
    If you don't get the following ... it is hopless.
    The Afghan war just like the Iraq war is illegal. If you still support it after all that has come to light, what is there to say.

    Jacobs makes sense when he writes:

    "Perhaps, there was once a time when most westerners could pretend that the US-led onslaught against the Afghan people was a good thing.  Perhaps they convinced themselves that because the government of that country had allowed Osama Bin Laden to live in the mountains there that there was reason enough to attack his neighbors and destroy what remained of their nation.  Perhaps, too, westerners (especially US citizens) believed that the true purpose of the US-led military mission in Afghanistan was to capture Bin Laden and destroy his terror network.

    Yes, perhaps there was a time when the facade of justice and righteous revenge provided enough of a moral veneer to the US war in Afghanistan that even intelligent westerners could live with the death and destruction occurring in their name.  However, that time is long past....

    Parent

    Yes, I read that (none / 0) (#145)
    by MKS on Mon Mar 29, 2010 at 07:01:32 PM EST
    Not an article with much more than a cursory argument.....

    Parent
    The very last thing the whole world needs is (none / 0) (#117)
    by bridget on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 06:52:18 PM EST
    Obama fooling the US citizens with a
    "hopey changey meets Afghanistan..." speech.

    As Mike Prysner writes re the new strategy in Afghanistan:

    clip -

    "Are the Taliban and al-Qaeda the real reasons for the war on Afghanistan?

    When President Obama announced the vast escalation of the war in Afghanistan, his speech made clear that the fate of the United States,
    and its allies around the world, rested with a U.S. victory in Afghanistan.

    He invoked the 9/11 attacks and the fear of another al-Qaeda attack.

    General Petraeus, General McChrystal and other Pentagon brass have openly admitted to the media that al-Qaeda is no longer operating in Afghanistan.

    Although al-Qaeda claims to operate in approximately 100 different countries, the generals and politicians maintain that controlling Afghanistan is the key to preventing another al-Qaeda attack."

    read on

    Parent

    Obama in Afghanistan (none / 0) (#143)
    by bridget on Mon Mar 29, 2010 at 06:49:06 PM EST
    I just read Dave Lindorff's article and I had to almost laugh about the whole choreographed spiel (if it wasn't so tragic) that Obama like Bush had to sneak into one of the poorest country of the world .... except the fake turkey was missing. Why was that? Oh right. Wrong holiday. Well, fake Easter eggs were missing, too. ;-)

    Only the Fake Turkey was Missing
    Obama in Afghanistan

    Dave Lindorff
    http://www.counterpunch.com/lindorff03292010.html

    "How pathetic a scene was this: The president of the United States, commander-in-chief of the mightiest war machine ....."

     read on

    Parent

    Very excited about Dr.Donald Berwick's possible (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by samsguy18 on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 02:44:16 PM EST
    Appointment......... In charge of medicare/medicaid. This man is a true reformer with a long research history centered around healthcare quality and delivery. I am not a fan of the present Healthcare bill.... however knowing professinals of his caliber will be involved gives me hope.

    Time to find another blog, for a while (5.00 / 3) (#49)
    by observed on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 03:32:34 PM EST
    I like this blog because of the good conversation, but these days, teh stupid burns too much.

    Cue obvious, dimwitted response

    See Ya (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by squeaky on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 04:05:26 PM EST
    Try corrente, Boldly shrill... seems that you would be in better company there, no?

    But don't hesitate to stop back at TL when you feel the need for a little balance.

    Parent

    Do not leave! (4.42 / 7) (#108)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 06:28:43 PM EST
    then the stoopid only wins :)

    Parent
    And I don't always agree with (5.00 / 2) (#113)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 06:35:36 PM EST
    the poster who goes by "observed", but I don't blog in need of a clique.  I blog to learn something, entertain various points of view in my narrow little nugget, weigh out different outcomes.

    Here is a review of recital in Louisville (none / 0) (#2)
    by oculus on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 12:28:35 PM EST
    by Bostridge/Drake.  All Brahms.  This is the program they will perform at Alice Tully Hall Wednesday night.  Sure wish I could hear it.

    Courier-Journal

    Obama recklessly puts USA at risk (none / 0) (#14)
    by RonK Seattle on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 01:36:25 PM EST
    ... of President Biden.

    Impeachment? (none / 0) (#15)
    by squeaky on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 01:51:00 PM EST
    Reckless disregard for the fate of America. Sounds way more impressive and actionable than getting impeached for getting a bl0w j0b.

    I am sure that you can get a petition started and between the TL anti progs and the teabaggers, I think you have a shot.

    And if your collaborative efforts are successful, we can watch the fireworks with President Biden. The Washington Mall should do..

    Anti-progs and teabaggers all hoisted on their own petard should make for quite a spectacular light show.

    Parent

    Tiresome. (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by oculus on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 02:02:24 PM EST
    Take A Nap (1.00 / 1) (#20)
    by squeaky on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 02:20:25 PM EST
    BTW-

    Your hands are not so clean, imo  

    But you know that.

    Parent

    What do you hope to accomplish? (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by oculus on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 02:31:18 PM EST
    Raise your blood pressure, obviously (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by observed on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 02:33:40 PM EST
    Oh Well (none / 0) (#38)
    by squeaky on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 02:57:15 PM EST
    Another innocent question?

    Some cases are hopeless..

    Parent

    And what "petard" would that be? (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 02:44:54 PM EST
    And what disastrous outcome do you imagine will ensue if we continue to say Obama is a wolf in sheep's clothing who has a assumed a democratic disguise to pull the wool over the eyes of the public more effectively than the Republicans themselves could do?

    Parent
    Sorry For The Poor Writing (none / 0) (#40)
    by squeaky on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 03:04:48 PM EST
    The petard in question:

    Obama charged with recklessness for going to a war zone where he could get killed, knowing all the while that a moron will be replacing him as President.

    Impeachment successful due to the efforts of teabaggers and anti-progs.

    Biden becomes president.

    Teabaggers and anti-progs indicted for premeditated reckless endangerment by forcing Obama to step down knowing that a moron would take his place.

    Parent

    They doth protest too much... (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 04:03:33 PM EST
    I don't know about the "teabaggers and anti-progs", but I'm sure the K Street lobbyists and the GOP leadership damn well know that Obama is working for them.

    Whenever conservatives caricature him as a rabid "socialist" they are blowing smoke, giving him cover and knowingly obscuring the reality that he is diligently serving corporate interests.

    In other words, they keep dressing him up in socialist clothes to insure that the public doesn't come to see him as a de facto center-right mole.

    Parent

    Wow (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by squeaky on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 04:09:25 PM EST
    Nice conspiracy theory..  Permanent republican rule by stealth.

    Bet you miss BushCo, because according to your theory things are exactly the same except for all the dishonesty.

    Parent

    HA! (5.00 / 2) (#65)
    by christinep on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 04:23:43 PM EST
    'Liked the comment about how some here sound like the old conspiracy theorists...theorists, btw, that tended to align with the Birchers and other rightists in the past. You know the drill: x equals conspiracy, y equals conspiracy, same for z, and for anything else you could imagine. Because if any credit would be given to the President for any action...well, land o' goshen...that might just add up to another conspiracy.

    Parent
    Huh, yourself. (none / 0) (#66)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 04:24:38 PM EST
    So you don't think the current state of affairs amounts to "Republican rule". What else would you call it kind sir?

    Parent
    Mainstream Democratic (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by squeaky on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 04:27:33 PM EST
    Yes, nowadays 'mainstream democratic' governance (none / 0) (#71)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 04:34:15 PM EST
    is not much distinguishable from Republican rule. So that's not a "conspiracy theory" is it?

    Parent
    Gosh (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by squeaky on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 04:42:42 PM EST
    You sound like one of those loathsome progressives..

    In any case, we part company in that I will take any mainstream democrat over BushCo, McSame et al..

    Parent

    Than take them, please! (none / 0) (#75)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 04:47:35 PM EST
    BTW, what about Reagan? He's one of President Obama's primary role models - would you take him too?

    Parent
    Reagan? (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by squeaky on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 04:56:03 PM EST
    You need to reread BTD's posts on the subject, because you have totally distorted what he said, in much the same way as you did here during the primaries..

    But the primaries are over... lol

    Parent

    Gawd, this has been a long slog for you. How do you do it day after day. You are multiple people aren't you?

    Parent
    Me? (3.00 / 2) (#92)
    by squeaky on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 05:29:28 PM EST
    BTW, what about Reagan? He's one of President Obama's primary role models -

    Perhaps you have amnesia. The Reagan quote was from the primaries, distorted by you and your crew to mean that Obama planned to emulate Reagan policies.

    But like good sheepies follow the leaders:

    Hillary Clinton, Jan 18:

    My leading opponent the other day said that he thought the Republicans had better ideas than Democrats the last 10 to 15 years.
    Bill Clinton, Jan 18:

    (My wife's) principal opponent said that since 1992, the Republicans have had all the good ideas....I'm not making this up, folks.



    Parent
    I'll see your "amnesia" and raise you an MPD.

    Oh, I just lost interest - there goes my ADD. Bye.

    Parent

    Reagan? (5.00 / 2) (#97)
    by jondee on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 05:44:35 PM EST
    I thought it was those America-haters Jeremiah Wright and Bill Ayers?

    I forgot, that was the week before.

    Parent

    Obviously, "Then"... (none / 0) (#78)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 04:52:46 PM EST
    Having Joe Biden as backup (none / 0) (#17)
    by brodie on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 01:59:43 PM EST
    is one of the few consistently reassuring aspects of this so-far mixed record administration.  

    Knowledgable mod-lib guy with a ton of experience ready to step in should Obama suddenly keel over on the hoops court, or should one of those violent tea baggers decide to ... well, like I thought for sure the wingnuts were planning to get rid of Bill Clinton prior to Monica.  

    Of course, Bill had his "insurance" of a sort with the similar minded Al Gore.  Just as wisely, Obama picked right in choosing the capable Biden.

    Parent

    Yuk Yuk (none / 0) (#19)
    by squeaky on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 02:04:48 PM EST
    Not a fan of Biden, in any way shape or form. But if you like a guy who believes that there are not enough people in prison, cheer away.  

    He was picked in order to pander to the mostly conservative bedwetter crowd, imo.

    Parent

    oops sorry professionals (none / 0) (#36)
    by samsguy18 on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 02:45:05 PM EST


    Hey Jondee! (none / 0) (#70)
    by shoephone on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 04:33:26 PM EST
    If you're out there reading today, I'm waiting for a real "open thread" to share a bit about my new Art Pepper Pandora station...

    Huh? (none / 0) (#74)
    by squeaky on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 04:46:47 PM EST
    I'm waiting for a real "open thread"

    Is this a "fake" open thread?

    Parent

    It's a thread that's been cr@pped on, IMO (5.00 / 7) (#86)
    by shoephone on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 05:15:10 PM EST
    But, as I recall, I was addressing jondee, not you.

    Parent
    Well (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by squeaky on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 05:32:19 PM EST
    You got me..

    If that is a problem for you, use a telephone, email, or other private communication.

    Parent

    Dumbest response yet today (3.66 / 3) (#118)
    by shoephone on Sun Mar 28, 2010 at 07:00:17 PM EST
    Please go to your medicine cabinet and take a Grow Up pill. One every four hours should do it.

    Parent