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Thursday Morning Open Thread

Suffice it to say that I will not be writing a word about the stupendously idiotic critiques of Kagan based on her being "elite."

My gawd, this is the Supreme Court; of course we want the best and the brightest. That is not to say they all come from elite law schools, but it is absurd to disqualify a nominee because they come from an elite law school.

This is an Open Thread.

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    It's funny how all of the substance-free (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by andgarden on Thu May 13, 2010 at 09:55:56 AM EST
    criticisms of her paint an incoherent picture when put together.

    That's the communications problem (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by inclusiveheart on Thu May 13, 2010 at 10:40:38 AM EST
    with a comment free subject - people make stuff up to fill the information void.

    She's quite a blank slate.  That may have seemed like a dream scenario at the White House when they started down this path, but I suspect it will be rather a nightmare for them ultimately.

    Mischievous speculation is far more effective when there are no facts put forth to counter it.

    Parent

    Ivy League... (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by kdog on Thu May 13, 2010 at 10:02:00 AM EST
    shouldn't disqualify ya...but it damn sure shouldn't be the only place we look for leadership and judicial talent...the three branches start to resemble a Harvard/Yale alumni club...there's a lot more talent than that to mine.

    Wholeheartedly agree (none / 0) (#31)
    by ruffian on Thu May 13, 2010 at 10:46:24 AM EST
    and I'd be interested in hearing the opinions of the lawyers here as to whether this should matter.

    But I fear and feel certain that the next non-Ivy Leaguer we get will be from Liberty U.

    Parent

    I hear that fear... (none / 0) (#34)
    by kdog on Thu May 13, 2010 at 10:51:08 AM EST
    Ivy league straight to the Jesus League...and I'm guessing my superficial non-Ivy preference, a graduate from the prison law library, is probably out of the question:)

    Parent
    My $.02 (none / 0) (#56)
    by jbindc on Thu May 13, 2010 at 11:23:05 AM EST
    It's not about jealousy or reverse snobbery, but it is about diversity.  Think about it - they all mix in the same kind if circles with the same people who had very similar academic experiences with the same professors.

    As a senior in college, I was thinking of attending graduate school.  I talked to my advisor - a grizzly old man who once threw a guy out of class for wearing a baseball hat after he was asked to remove it indoors. As I was considering a graduate program in the same focus as my undergraduate major, he gave me two scenarios:

     I could go to graduate school there, where I'd almost be guaranteed a teaching assistantship, since he was the department chair and he liked me.  However, I would have some of the same professors I had had as an undergrad, which would mean I would get the same material presented in the same way with the same viewpoints.  Or, I could go to a different school and hear different perspectives.  He advised me to go to a different school and get as many perspectives as I could.  I think that's the issue - the Harvard /Yale connection and who is running things is looking more and  more incestuous every year.  

    I think it might be a very different Court, even if all the ayers were the same, if we had a Michigan law grad, a Texas law grad, a Miami grad, a Tennesse grad, etc.  

    Parent

    "Incestuous"... (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by kdog on Thu May 13, 2010 at 12:03:58 PM EST
    excellent word choice jb...nail on the head.

    And ya don't need a Harvard degree to know what happens when siblings f*ck.

    Parent

    Yes, I should have made that clear too (none / 0) (#87)
    by ruffian on Thu May 13, 2010 at 12:45:17 PM EST
    considering the context. My thoughts are also about diversity of opinion, not anti-elitism. I don't know enough about law schools to know if, for example, Stanford Law School is any more elite than Harvard, but just based on my general knowledge of organizations and regional differences I would expect a different viewpoint that might be helpful.

    I know, I say that, and then I object to Liberty U. I guess I would have to hear from someone I trust that it is a 'good enough' law school.

    Parent

    Exactly. There are "schools of thought" (none / 0) (#125)
    by Cream City on Thu May 13, 2010 at 10:07:42 PM EST
    as the phrase goes, and they often arise from actual schools.  And it's not as if the faculty members are Jekyll and Hydes who are going to become different people, abandoning all that they know, to teach a topic one way by day to undergrads and another way by night to grad students.

    (However, I do recall my advisor talking about having to turn up the wattage, as it were, to make the switch from undergrad to grad classes in the same day, from large lectures to small seminars.  He called it upping the wattage from ac to dc.  That has a different meaning now. . . .:-)

    Parent

    I think the true underlying theme (none / 0) (#122)
    by BackFromOhio on Thu May 13, 2010 at 06:51:25 PM EST
    of the nomination is not top rung of the Ivy League but rather members of the O inner circle.

    I read a post by one of Kagan's former students at U Chi Law School indicating that Kagan is a great poker player; comment was literal; let's hope Kagan's poker abilities translate in favor of progressive views.

    Parent

    And I think her position as Dean of Harvard Law (none / 0) (#83)
    by BDB on Thu May 13, 2010 at 12:28:36 PM EST
    does say something about her.  Our elite classes have, by and large, completely failed on a grand scale in recent years.  I don't think that ends the analysis in any way, but I do think it's fair to ask how her background, surrounded and working by an elite class that is increasingly distanced from the rest of America will affect her judgement on the Court.

    I would also note that "best and brightest" and "elite" are not synonyms.  There are lots of members of the elite who are not the best and brightest.  Indeed, in recent years it seems there is absolutely no accountability among our elite, you're in just by being a member of the club and once in, it doesn't really matter how smart or talented you are.

    Again, maybe Kagan is brilliant.  Then again, maybe not.  I don't know.  But Americans too often shy away from a meaningful discussion of class* and it's almost always to the detriment of the 98% of us who are not in the elite.

    *Not that I expect any meaningful discussion of class to occur during the Kagan confirmation since such a discussion would be damning not only to the Administration, but also to the Senate.

    Parent

    IMO, there is danger in assuming (none / 0) (#123)
    by BackFromOhio on Thu May 13, 2010 at 06:53:25 PM EST
    someone with a high IQ/intellect or whatever has the kind of emotional intelligence or courage that makes for good leadership or national policy.

    Parent
    well (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu May 13, 2010 at 10:10:15 AM EST
    at balloon juice "elitist" is defined as using a fork, no.

    Looks like... (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by kdog on Thu May 13, 2010 at 10:25:23 AM EST
    Laura Bush has tired of playing the Stepford wife.  Good for her.

    good on (none / 0) (#16)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu May 13, 2010 at 10:31:10 AM EST
    her.

    Parent
    Fine, but how much (none / 0) (#18)
    by brodie on Thu May 13, 2010 at 10:35:30 AM EST
    should we applaud her for outspokenness when it's politically safe, especially when she has a book to sell and maybe as she's trying to help soften her husband's negative image?

    Iirc, another Repub First Lady, Betty Ford, let it be known that she had different views from her hubby on abortion and women in the workforce, and did so while Jerry was holding down the top office, though she didn't exactly go Martha Mitchell on Jer.  

    Not gonna credit LB too much here.  Maybe a few points for finally talking about the auto fatality which she caused as a teen, though if she were the wife of a Dem prez that matter would have been brought up by the press during her tenure as FL.

    Parent

    It sure woulda been cooler... (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by kdog on Thu May 13, 2010 at 10:43:40 AM EST
    if she came out of the closet (so to speak) sooner...but better late than never right?

    The fact that usual suspects on the right and left are pissin' and moanin' about it kinda makes me think she's done the right thing, even if a little late.

    Parent

    Not really a big fan (none / 0) (#59)
    by brodie on Thu May 13, 2010 at 11:25:48 AM EST
    of those who once held prominent public positions, who failed to take advantage of that position to argue for positive social change, but who later speak out when they have a book to sell and some history writing to influence.

    Not impressed that Ike made those statements as he was going out the door in Jan 1961, nor do I credit my friend Bill Clinton much for saying post-Jan 2001 that he favored decriminalizing pot possession.  As Bill Maher said, Gee that's great -- and if only he'd been in a position to do something about it ...

    Parent

    No doubt... (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by kdog on Thu May 13, 2010 at 11:29:45 AM EST
    actually doing something about it is ideal...points well taken.  But it is still better than sticking to the same tired and wrong script all the way to the grave.

    Parent
    To whom much is given, (none / 0) (#68)
    by brodie on Thu May 13, 2010 at 11:38:56 AM EST
    much is expected.

    Parent
    I actually had (none / 0) (#20)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu May 13, 2010 at 10:37:58 AM EST
    a soft spot for her ever since I read she was a pot dealer in college.

    Parent
    Laura Bush?!? (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by CST on Thu May 13, 2010 at 10:41:12 AM EST
    really?  I heard some things about Georgie in college.  That he dated the mom of a friend of mine who introduced him to pot to get him of coke.  Apparently that didn't work, and they didn't work out.

    Honestly, thinking about it, I am prepared to differ on opinions with someone I'm involved with.  But there are some lines I think I would draw.  And support of gay marriage might be one of them.  I don't think I could marry a bigot.  And I really don't see how you could be against that and not be a bigot.

    Parent

    Society Marriages Are Different (none / 0) (#30)
    by squeaky on Thu May 13, 2010 at 10:43:41 AM EST
    different (none / 0) (#72)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu May 13, 2010 at 11:41:56 AM EST
    generation

    Parent
    But (none / 0) (#23)
    by squeaky on Thu May 13, 2010 at 10:40:07 AM EST
    The "rumor", cough, cough... that the chimp dealt coke, doesn't soften your heart as well?

    lol

    Parent

    dont do (none / 0) (#37)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu May 13, 2010 at 10:54:41 AM EST
    coke

    Parent
    Better blow... (none / 0) (#39)
    by kdog on Thu May 13, 2010 at 10:56:41 AM EST
    that the last thing he was dealin'...death.

    Now Obama is the kingpin.

    Parent

    Just did a Google of (none / 0) (#42)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu May 13, 2010 at 11:03:43 AM EST
    "laura bush auto accident" and got 39,000 hits. Somebody's been talking.

    Parent
    Yeah (none / 0) (#63)
    by lilburro on Thu May 13, 2010 at 11:28:44 AM EST
    not really impressed...although it is good that Cindy McCain, Laura Bush, etc. are supportive of gay marriage.

    Parent
    I'm tellin ya (none / 0) (#111)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu May 13, 2010 at 04:20:40 PM EST
    it's straight men who cause all the trouble.  Women and gay men have few problems with each other.

    Parent
    Judging by recent events (none / 0) (#124)
    by lilburro on Thu May 13, 2010 at 06:55:54 PM EST
    it seems to be the not-so-straight men that are causing all the trouble... :P

    Parent
    But (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by squeaky on Thu May 13, 2010 at 10:28:32 AM EST
    Smart people are overrepresented on the SC. We need diversity to reflect all of America.

    I nominate Joe the Plumber.

    Senator Roman Hruska, R.Neb. (none / 0) (#32)
    by Peter G on Thu May 13, 2010 at 10:46:39 AM EST
    actually made that argument, kind of famously, Squeaky, for one of Nixon's appointees, iirc.  No time to find the link just now.

    Parent
    Yeah, 'cuz (none / 0) (#35)
    by jbindc on Thu May 13, 2010 at 10:53:53 AM EST
    The only smart people we have to choose from graduated from Ivies....

    Parent
    Not Joe the Plumber... (none / 0) (#36)
    by kdog on Thu May 13, 2010 at 10:54:41 AM EST
    he's a piker...but my buddy Mike the Painter would do a good job, imho...or Tommy the Elevator Mechanic.  They might not be Ivy material..but at least they know which way the wind is blowing, can't say the same for some of these Ivy cats.

    Parent
    Good idea, kdog (none / 0) (#44)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu May 13, 2010 at 11:05:44 AM EST
    Of course diversity is only important when we're talking about Tea Party meetings....

    /snark/snark

    Parent

    Good snark... (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by kdog on Thu May 13, 2010 at 11:14:35 AM EST
    any believer in diversity should be appalled at this Harvard/Yale dominance.

    Now I think diversity is great, but talent and ability should be the #1 criteria...I just don't believe for a second that Harvard and Yale are the only places where there is talent and ability to be found to fill our most important positions in government...thats just where are the connections run through.

    Parent

    Yeah out of all the judges and lawyers (none / 0) (#84)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu May 13, 2010 at 12:34:55 PM EST
    in this land of 300,000,000 plus people we wind up with 9 from the same background...

    That doesn't pass my BS filter.

    Parent

    Same Background? (5.00 / 2) (#86)
    by squeaky on Thu May 13, 2010 at 12:42:34 PM EST
    You mean that they are all lawyers?  Seems to me that if you consider "background" as narrowly as you are doing here, we will never have a suitable SC nominee.

    All kidding aside, I do not seem to remember hearing any talk of diversity when it came to the nominations of  Bork, Thomas, Scalia, Alito, or Roberts.  

    Parent

    Maybe because (none / 0) (#96)
    by jbindc on Thu May 13, 2010 at 01:38:25 PM EST
    At that time there were two people who went to Stanford st that time (1 for Roberts)?

    Let's face it, the Harvard and Yale alumni clubs are overrepresented,

    Parent

    Correction (none / 0) (#110)
    by squeaky on Thu May 13, 2010 at 04:05:03 PM EST
    I do not seem to remember hearing any talk of diversity [coming from you] when it came to the nominations of  Bork, Thomas, Scalia, Alito, or Roberts. Nor a peep about stonewalling by the latter four nominees. All you provided was a cheerleader section.

    The comment was addressed to ppj, but since you chimed in, are you suggesting that Bork, Roberts, Thomas, Scalia, Alito were all fine and dandy representatives of diversity because two of them went to Stanford? And so passed the smell test?  

    Or are you picking irrelevant nits?

    Parent

    You have this amazing ability (none / 0) (#115)
    by jbindc on Thu May 13, 2010 at 04:37:14 PM EST
    To read things that aren't there.  You asked why these questions weren't asked during the hearings about diversity, and I merely pointed out that during those confirmations, there were justices who went to school in places other than Yale or Harvard (See O'Connor and Rehnquist, for example).

    Not sure how you read that I supported all those other nominations, but knowing you, I'm not surprised by the nonsense.  

    Tinfoil hat time, indeed.

    Parent

    Correction (none / 0) (#119)
    by squeaky on Thu May 13, 2010 at 04:53:35 PM EST
    I corrected my comment. And thank you for answering the question.

    Or are you picking irrelevant nits?

    Evidentially the answer is "yes".

    Parent

    It's a conspiracy!!! (none / 0) (#112)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu May 13, 2010 at 04:23:22 PM EST
    Well (none / 0) (#62)
    by squeaky on Thu May 13, 2010 at 11:27:38 AM EST
    Not sure your friends would qualify for representing stupid people. Not being Ivy League material, is one thing, but for the sake of diversity and representation, morons and pikers need someone to represent stupidity...

    Although many would say that stupidity is already over-represented on the SC.

    Diversity is a thorny issue, evidentially.  

    Parent

    Soft spot for Laura (5.00 / 2) (#45)
    by DancingOpossum on Thu May 13, 2010 at 11:08:13 AM EST
    a soft spot for her ever since I read she was a pot dealer in college.

    For me, it was reading that Laura loathed the whole Bush family, and especially detested Babs. Apparently when they go to Kennebunkport to visit, she spends her time hiding from the Bushes, sitting on a bporch chair, drinking coffee or wine, smoking, and reading books. That sounds like personal heaven to me, too, and coupled with the Babs-loathing, I've had a soft spot for her ever since.

    Curtis Sittenfeld wrote a novel, "American Wife," that is clearly a fictional biography of Laura. Sittenfeld is a terrific writer (who clearly has her own soft spot for LB) and the book was excellent reading.


    I've got a soft spot.. (none / 0) (#132)
    by jondee on Fri May 14, 2010 at 12:00:30 AM EST
    about the size of a gnat's belly..

    So, she "cant stand" Babs; is possibly (very quietly) pro-choice; sold pot once and stands by her Texacuting, treasury looting, knowledge loathing, fundamentalism pimping, wmd shilling man -- out of all the tens of millions of men in this country -- just like Tammy Wynette.

    What is it about mousy female masochism that STILL warms people's hearts so much in this country?

     

    Parent

    Yeah (none / 0) (#133)
    by squeaky on Fri May 14, 2010 at 12:05:04 AM EST
    When I saw the headlines I was expecting that she announce divorce from the chimperor.  

    Anything short of that is collusion.

    Parent

    I can hear it now.. (none / 0) (#139)
    by jondee on Fri May 14, 2010 at 02:59:23 PM EST
       What's the matter Laura?

       Silence

       What?!

       ..Um..George..I was just wondering if maybe
       it was a little..unchristian..to mock that
       Karla Faye Tucker woman like that..

       We stand tall against crime here in Texas, Laura.
       You know that.

       Did Karl say anything about it..? ..I was just
       wondering..

    Parent

    I have the cover in the San Diego Reader this week (5.00 / 2) (#54)
    by Dadler on Thu May 13, 2010 at 11:19:52 AM EST
    What do you think of the cover illustration? (none / 0) (#58)
    by oculus on Thu May 13, 2010 at 11:24:57 AM EST
    Oh, and congratulations.

    Parent
    Thank you (none / 0) (#61)
    by Dadler on Thu May 13, 2010 at 11:27:01 AM EST
    And, truthfully, I don't like the illustration, or the fact that they changed the title. The illustration makes it seem like a story about pit bulls out of control, and the title gives you no indication of what the story is about, as opposed to "the abnormal width of normal heights," which, at least, set the piece in locale.

    But I can't complain.

    Ahem.

    Parent

    I picked up a copy of the Reader but (none / 0) (#65)
    by oculus on Thu May 13, 2010 at 11:30:12 AM EST
    couldn't figure out that cover illustration so probably would have missed the fact it was related in some way to your story (and didn't realize your story was there as the cover story).  Thank God for TL!  

    Parent
    I wish someone had disqualified (5.00 / 2) (#80)
    by BobTinKY on Thu May 13, 2010 at 12:14:55 PM EST
    Clarence Thomas for being  Yale Law grad.

    some tidbits (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by CST on Thu May 13, 2010 at 01:02:27 PM EST
    from Kagan's meeting with Arlen Spector. Link.

    "Kagan herself, like other recent Supreme Court nominees, has remained tight-lipped in public since being selected by President Barack Obama. But Specter said she was "very forthcoming" behind closed doors."  

    That's nice, but not very usefull for the rest of us.

    "He also said Kagan stood by comments she made in 1995, when she dismissed the confirmation hearing process as a "charade." "

    Much more promising. Also:

    "Supreme Court nominee Elena Kagan may be open to the idea of allowing television coverage of Supreme Court hearings"

    I prefer the groundhogs (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu May 13, 2010 at 01:29:08 PM EST
    in my backyard

    not photoshopped btw

    Is that a crab? (none / 0) (#97)
    by ruffian on Thu May 13, 2010 at 01:41:18 PM EST
    Is that your backyard?

    I'd rather have a groundhog too unless I could wrestle that bad boy into a pot of boiling water and some drawn butter.

    Parent

    no thankfully (none / 0) (#99)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu May 13, 2010 at 01:44:49 PM EST
    no my garbage can.  someone sent me that.

    Parent
    oh (none / 0) (#100)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu May 13, 2010 at 01:45:59 PM EST
    its a coconut crab.

    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#2)
    by Maryb2004 on Thu May 13, 2010 at 10:01:57 AM EST
    because the REAL issue is that she is yet another New Yorker.  

    Well, the cutesy chatter about (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by brodie on Thu May 13, 2010 at 10:23:52 AM EST
    whether a nominee's a Yankees or Mets fan gets tiresome for all us non-NYers.

    Then too there's the still unresolved matter of why only Staten Island among all the boroughs is as yet unrepresented on the Court.

    Parent

    They tried to secede from NYC (none / 0) (#15)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu May 13, 2010 at 10:28:45 AM EST
    That's why.

    Parent
    Aw Man... (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by kdog on Thu May 13, 2010 at 10:39:39 AM EST
    I was banking on Gza, Rza, or Method Man getting nominated for the next slot.

    This court needs some Wu-Tang, Wu-Tang!

    Parent

    they would be the first (none / 0) (#43)
    by CST on Thu May 13, 2010 at 11:05:07 AM EST
    Asian justices on the court.

    (Dave Chappelle reference - racial draft)

    Parent

    Classic! (none / 0) (#60)
    by kdog on Thu May 13, 2010 at 11:26:17 AM EST
    I miss that show...remember the one with Wu-Tang Financial Planning?

    "Diversify your bonds n*gga."

     

    Parent

    haha yep (none / 0) (#66)
    by CST on Thu May 13, 2010 at 11:31:14 AM EST
    when your bum is leakin'... Rocapads

    Ahh he was great.  Although I still think the best episode ever was the very first one.  Black/blind white supremacist.  I just sat there the whole time with my jaw on the floor.

    I understand why he quit though, the lost episodes of season 3 were just not the same.  But man those two years were priceless.

    Parent

    A Bluff (none / 0) (#27)
    by squeaky on Thu May 13, 2010 at 10:42:06 AM EST
    When the other four boroughs said OK, go for it, they backed down.

    Parent
    Heh (none / 0) (#7)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu May 13, 2010 at 10:16:19 AM EST
    Although (none / 0) (#9)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu May 13, 2010 at 10:17:04 AM EST
    I would not object if Scalia wants to retire to address that concern.

    Parent
    Supposedly his favorite pizza place in DC (none / 0) (#10)
    by andgarden on Thu May 13, 2010 at 10:18:59 AM EST
    is gone. I doubt that's enough, though. . .

    Parent
    I think it's not fair that we don't know what (none / 0) (#24)
    by observed on Thu May 13, 2010 at 10:40:15 AM EST
    kind of Jew someone is. I mean, nobody would be satisfied if they were told Scalia is a "Christian"!
    Is there an Orthodox justice now? This should be as important as knowing whether there is a Protestant.

    Parent
    with Kagan (none / 0) (#28)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu May 13, 2010 at 10:42:23 AM EST
    all Jewish and catholic no?

    Parent
    Yes, true (none / 0) (#33)
    by Peter G on Thu May 13, 2010 at 10:48:53 AM EST
    but as Observed points out, there are many, many meanings to "Jewish" in America today, in theological and thus generally speaking political-social terms as well.  (And at least two basic kinds of "Catholics," in the same regards.)  

    Parent
    meh (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu May 13, 2010 at 11:23:49 AM EST
    they all look the same to me.

    Parent
    You can read all about Kagan's Bat Mitzvah (none / 0) (#38)
    by andgarden on Thu May 13, 2010 at 10:55:13 AM EST
    in today's Times:

    [I]t was not too surprising after [Kagan] turned 12 that she wanted to mark her coming of age with a bat mitzvah.

    The only problem was that the rabbi at her Orthodox synagogue, Shlomo Riskin, had never performed one.

    "Elena Kagan felt very strongly that there should be ritual bat mitzvah in the synagogue, no less important than the ritual bar mitzvah," Rabbi Riskin said, referring to the rite of passage for 13-year-old boys. "This was really the first formal bat mitzvah we had."

    But while Elena, the brainy, self-assured daughter of a lawyer and a schoolteacher, asked to read from the Torah on a Saturday morning, just as the boys did, it was not to be. Instead, her ceremony took place on a Friday night, May 18, 1973, and she read from the Book of Ruth, which she also analyzed in a speech.



    Parent
    heh, demanding fair treatment . . . (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by nycstray on Thu May 13, 2010 at 11:01:13 AM EST
    eh? How dare she!

    Parent
    That does it. I support her nomination. (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by oculus on Thu May 13, 2010 at 11:08:33 AM EST
    heh (none / 0) (#52)
    by andgarden on Thu May 13, 2010 at 11:15:45 AM EST
    what the world really needs (none / 0) (#5)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu May 13, 2010 at 10:11:24 AM EST
    is a kick a$$ western:

    Johna Hex

    She'll be like C. Thomas (none / 0) (#47)
    by Yes2Truth on Thu May 13, 2010 at 11:10:03 AM EST
    Too insecure to ask questions.

    Parent
    Why on earth is... (none / 0) (#6)
    by kdog on Thu May 13, 2010 at 10:14:13 AM EST
    the Wisconsin Dept. of Natural Resources hating on a...ummm...natural resource?  So strange.

    heh (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu May 13, 2010 at 10:16:27 AM EST
    The state Department of Natural Resources wants hikers, anglers and hunters to be on the lookout for giant marijuana grows on public lands.

    done and DONE

    Parent

    Seriously... (none / 0) (#11)
    by kdog on Thu May 13, 2010 at 10:21:42 AM EST
    stumble upon a marijuana patch...call the cops or call my boys...tough one:)

    Parent
    Sorry, kdog, but (none / 0) (#126)
    by Cream City on Thu May 13, 2010 at 10:16:42 PM EST
    the strains preferred by you and yours are invasive plants here.  We really do have a problem with invasive species. Most are Illinoisians, but some are plants.:-)

    (Getting geared up for the Great Garlic Mustard Weed-Out this weekend, as we head out by the thousands to attack the green beastie that overwhelms our native flora.)

    Parent

    Tell That to Thomas Jefferson (none / 0) (#127)
    by squeaky on Thu May 13, 2010 at 10:18:26 PM EST
    interesting (none / 0) (#17)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu May 13, 2010 at 10:34:40 AM EST
    A Non-Fighting Faith
    Where Obama should shove his plea for civility.

    Jonathan Chait

    How about someone from Pepperdine (none / 0) (#19)
    by observed on Thu May 13, 2010 at 10:37:48 AM EST
    or from the Domino's law school, which I hear is pretty good.

    I hear Simon Cowell (none / 0) (#21)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu May 13, 2010 at 10:39:24 AM EST
    is looking for a job.  he even has experience.

    Parent
    Something ideally (none / 0) (#109)
    by jondee on Thu May 13, 2010 at 03:59:52 PM EST
    that requires a man boobs in a tight tee shirt look..

    Parent
    The problem with KAGAN is that... (none / 0) (#40)
    by Yes2Truth on Thu May 13, 2010 at 11:00:51 AM EST

    her votes will reflect the interests of elites rather than those of all Americans (including Muslims).  

    Can you tell me what the (5.00 / 4) (#49)
    by Anne on Thu May 13, 2010 at 11:12:51 AM EST
    MegaMillions and Powerball numbers will be this week?  

    I ask only because you have made such a definite assertion about where Kagan's interests will lie, with not a whole lot of information in hand about what her views actually are, so I figure the only way you could assert this about her is if you're psychic.

    It might be helpful to understand that there really is a difference between going to an "elite" school - such as Harvard or Yale or Princeton - and being an "elitist."  

    Seriously, if you know what those lottery numbers are, I would be happy to share the winnings.


    Parent

    Also (none / 0) (#48)
    by DancingOpossum on Thu May 13, 2010 at 11:10:09 AM EST
    Laura made it clear that she differed from George on abortion early on. The press never really followed up on it but it was no secret. On gay marriage, I had no idea but I'm not surprised. I would bet George himself supports it but is afraid to say so.

    I kind of (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by CST on Thu May 13, 2010 at 11:13:56 AM EST
    thought that myself: "I would bet George himself supports it but is afraid to say so"

    I think his own personal opinions on a lot of social issues differ from his presidency.  Of course, that kind of makes him a bigger scumbag for going there anyway.

    Parent

    She may have, but the point (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by brodie on Thu May 13, 2010 at 11:18:28 AM EST
    is, if some on our side are going to credit her now for outspokenness, let's consider how little she spoke out during her FL tenure when it mattered and could have made a difference, as with the situation with Betty Ford.  

    She had a chance with her position and platform to possibly temper some of the extremes being taken by her husband's admin and the GOP especially on these social issues.  She chose not to, and that's the relevant decision on which to judge her, and not whether she privately held some anti-Bush family attitudes or would go off on her own at Kennybunkport to smoke cigs.  Big whoop.

    Parent

    I think you are being a bit hard on her (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu May 13, 2010 at 11:22:48 AM EST
    she was in the position, if she had done what you suggest she should have, of not only undermining her husbands authority but having her entire family of inlaws to deal with.  

    a daunting prospect for thanksgiving and christmas.


    Parent

    And (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by jbindc on Thu May 13, 2010 at 11:45:34 AM EST
    It was right after the whole HRC as "outspoken FL" days.  

    I also think Laura is just a very quiet, shy person.

    Parent

    Sounds like she wasn't (none / 0) (#67)
    by brodie on Thu May 13, 2010 at 11:36:30 AM EST
    having such a wonderful time at Bush family get togethers as it was.

    Why not add a little political controversy to the gatherings and annoy some of the folks she already found annoying (allegedly)?

    Of course, that all assumes she actually cared enough about a woman's choice and gay marriage to be semi-courageous enough to speak out about them at the time, in appropriate moderate ways that wouldn't unduly anger Junior and Karl.  Might be an incorrect assumption.  Probably is.  

    LB strikes me as someone who might have only very lightly held political positions at variance with Shrub, someone who's perhaps much more of a self- or homemaker-oriented FL than the public-minded ones like ER, Jackie, BF, Rosalyn, HRC.  

    Parent

    she looked (none / 0) (#71)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu May 13, 2010 at 11:40:37 AM EST
    all thru the Bush years like she was on a Xanax drip.  maybe she was.

    Parent
    For crying out loud, Brodie (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu May 13, 2010 at 04:28:02 PM EST
    she's a wife of the very old-fashioned sort, not a political aide or paid staffer.  I say good for her for having her own strong opinions.  It wasn't her job to speak out in opposition to her husband's policies, for heaven's sake.  Can't we have a teeny, tiny exemption for spouses and children?

    Parent
    Of course technically it's not (none / 0) (#121)
    by brodie on Thu May 13, 2010 at 05:16:57 PM EST
    her FL job to take positions on these issues, nor was it Eleanor Roosevelt's or Betty Ford's, but speak out they did.  Heck, even some of Ford's kids spoke out at variance with their father.  

    Usually though, except for some uptight people in the Repub admins and detractors in the tightly-wound GOP hierarchy who don't want dissonant voices heard, people are able to separate the spousal or kids views from that of the prez.

    Of course, as I suggested above, some of these matters may not really be strongly held opinions by LB but rather lightly held ones intended to soften the Bush 43 image with the public and to sell a book to a broader audience.  

    If credible evidence emerges later, however, that behind the scenes LB really did try to influence her hubby's admin on some of these things, as, e.g., Betty Ford lobbied Jerry to get a woman named to the Scotus, more power to her and I will credit her at that future time.  Until then, I prefer to credit her little if at all ...  

    Parent

    Interestingly, ER for one (none / 0) (#128)
    by Cream City on Thu May 13, 2010 at 10:20:46 PM EST
    held back on several issues at the request of FDR's party handlers (evidently he had them do the dirty work and did not attempt to stifle her, himself:-).

    Reading Blanche Wiesen Cook's wonderful bio of ER, it's quite interesting to see changes after FDR died, after she no longer was FL, etc.

    Parent

    amazing (none / 0) (#69)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu May 13, 2010 at 11:39:03 AM EST
    remind me why this rag is being sold -

    Heterosexual actors play gay all the time. Why doesn't it ever work in reverse?

    It's not just a problem for someone like Hayes, who even tips off your grandmother's gaydar. For all the beefy bravado that Rock Hudson projects on-screen, Pillow Talk dissolves into a farce when you know the likes of his true bedmates.

    holy sh!t
    what decade is this again?  and why is it important for public figures to come out?
    I forget.


    heh (none / 0) (#73)
    by CST on Thu May 13, 2010 at 11:45:15 AM EST
    knowing what i know about hollywood, my guess is homosexual actors play hetero all the time.  They just aren't "out".

    Parent
    of course (none / 0) (#75)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu May 13, 2010 at 11:48:00 AM EST
    that is the problem this pud has.  he didnt have a problem with Rock until he "knew about he icky" and it spoiled it for him.

    I feel ill.


    Parent

    Pud. I haven't heard that word in decades. (none / 0) (#98)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu May 13, 2010 at 01:42:34 PM EST
    Im old (none / 0) (#101)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu May 13, 2010 at 01:47:22 PM EST
    oh and OF COURSE (none / 0) (#76)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu May 13, 2010 at 11:50:06 AM EST
    he gives female actors a bit of a pass cause that, you know, kinda hot.


    Parent
    FYI (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by waldenpond on Thu May 13, 2010 at 12:12:23 PM EST
    I doubt he is giving female actors a pass because he personally finds them hot.

    Parent
    you are aware (none / 0) (#89)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu May 13, 2010 at 01:09:22 PM EST
    that many straight men do find that hot, right?


    Parent
    FYI part 2 (none / 0) (#118)
    by waldenpond on Thu May 13, 2010 at 04:46:04 PM EST
    He's gay.

    Parent
    ok (none / 0) (#120)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu May 13, 2010 at 05:01:23 PM EST
    I admit I did not see that coming.  and I didnt get that far reading his drivel.

    that is honestly even more amazing.  
    I dont know what to say to that except that I have some friends I would like him to meet to expand his horizons a bit and explode some of his misconceptions about what gay men can and can not do.

    Parent

    you know (none / 0) (#136)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri May 14, 2010 at 09:28:09 AM EST
    I actually went back and read that thing.  
    yesterday I just grabbed those quotes from another blog that didnt mention that HE WAS GAY.

    but I read it. the whole thing.  I really did.  then I soaked my brain in lysol.  and I am even more speechless.  it would be funny if it was not so depressing.  no idea where even to start.

    I wonder if he thought Gandalf was nellie?
    I guess the hat screamed Margret Hamilton but I never thought of it that way.

    Parent

    you know (none / 0) (#137)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri May 14, 2010 at 09:30:29 AM EST
    I like short guys. but I never let myself think about possibly, you know, Gandalf . . . liking short guys . . .

    eeeu
    more lysol

    Parent

    I don't think (none / 0) (#77)
    by lilburro on Thu May 13, 2010 at 11:54:41 AM EST
    any actor should come out as a response to that ridiculous article.  OMG, Glee has bad acting!  Knock me over with a feather!!  Plus there are plenty of semi-out or "glass closeted" actors he doesn't mention.  Jodie Foster?

    Parent
    Talent.. not (none / 0) (#81)
    by squeaky on Thu May 13, 2010 at 12:22:21 PM EST
    Out Of Focus
    The Internet is attacking me for my essay on 'Promises, Promises.' But can we steer the debate back to where it belongs?

    ..... the New York Times theater review included these lines: "his emotions often seem pale to the point of colorlessness ... his relationship with [his costar Kristin] Chenoweth feels more like that of a younger brother than a would-be lover and protector." This, to me, is code: it's a way to say that Hayes's sexual orientation is getting in the way of his acting without saying the word gay.

    Instead of hiding behind double entendre and leaving the obvious unstated, I wrote an essay in the May 10 issue of NEWSWEEK called "Straight Jacket" examining why, as a society, it's often hard for us to accept an openly gay actor playing a straight character. You can disagree with me if you like, but when was the last time you saw a movie starring a gay actor? The point of my essay was not to disparage my own community, but to examine an issue that is being swept under the rug.

    link

    more to the point Ramin Setoodeh's words can be used to describe his own writing about this subject:

    He comes off as wooden and insincere, like he's trying to hide something, which of course he is.

    Hiding lack of talent?  lol

    Parent

    LOL (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by ruffian on Thu May 13, 2010 at 01:14:53 PM EST
    Of course the obvious reason an actor and actress have bad ehemistry on screen or on stage is because one of them is actually gay. snark  Why didn't I ever think of that?

    I don't know who this guy is, but he has sure not seen many movies or theater productions. Or maybe he has been lucky enough to have missed some bad acting.

    I loved Sean Hayes in 'Will and Grace', and he is from my alma mater, Illinois state, but I am willing to admit he might not be a very good actor. I for one still find Doris day and Rock Hudson a believable couple in those movies even knowing about Hudson's real preferences. It's called acting.

    Parent

    have you seen the Todd Haynes (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu May 13, 2010 at 01:23:10 PM EST
    homage to those Douglas Sirk melodramas called "Far From Heaven" with Dennis Quaid as the Rock Hudson character who, this time, is gay IN the movie?

    its great.  highly recommended.  if only for Julianne Moores fabulous 50s wardrob

    Parent

    Love that movie (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by ruffian on Thu May 13, 2010 at 01:25:27 PM EST
    One of my favorites. The costumes and photography all by itself make it worth watching, but the story, acting, etc is all superb.

    Parent
    He's even insulting grandmothers (none / 0) (#93)
    by ruffian on Thu May 13, 2010 at 01:27:29 PM EST
    I know many of them who could be the prototypes for effective gaydar.

    Parent
    amen (none / 0) (#95)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu May 13, 2010 at 01:29:55 PM EST
    by then you learn what to watch for

    Parent
    Must Do (none / 0) (#70)
    by squeaky on Thu May 13, 2010 at 11:40:04 AM EST
    The administration is sending a wide-ranging spill-response package to Capitol Hill that includes raising the $75 million cap on economic damages. It would also seek to accelerate assistance to people left unemployed by the spill, expand eligibility for food stamps and raise an 8-cent-per-barrel oil tax by 1 cent.

    The cap on natural resource damages would be raised from $500 million to $750 million. Some lawmakers have said the cap on economic damages, such as lost wages or canceled hotel bookings, should be raised to $10 billion. But the administration did not offer its recommendation as to what the cap should be.

    "We will work with Congress on the final number for that liability cap," White House energy and climate adviser Carol Browner said in a conference call with reporters today.

    NYT

    $10bil seems in the ballpark.

    BP Spill will likely cost more than Exxon Valdez (none / 0) (#104)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Thu May 13, 2010 at 03:36:06 PM EST
    The administration is talking about "raising the cap on natural resource damages from $500 million to $750 million...But the administration did not offer its recommendation as to what the cap should be on related economic losses". That's craven -- why cap any damages at all? Consider this today from the NY Times, BP's Oil Spill Bill Could Dwarf Exxon's Valdez Tab :
    Analysts who put the cost of the Deepwater Horizon spill at anywhere from $2-$8 billion also cautioned that the numbers could change quickly. "Those estimates can either skyrocket or come down depending on when the flow of oil is stopped,"...

    BP earned $17 billion in net income last year and is projected to earn $23 billion in 2010..."BP certainly is more than capable of covering all of the expenses that they'll be liable for," Molchanov said...

    "This is shaping up to be worse than the Exxon Valdez accident" in terms of oil spilled and cost for damages, said Fadel Gheit, an Oppenheimer & Co LLC managing director and senior analyst in the oil and gas sector. Exxon paid more than $3.8 billion in cleanup and damage costs, plus about $500 million in punitive damages.

    Exxon still owes taxpayers $92 million on its total debt. And now, we're being asked to accept caps on BP's outlay -- which will bleed us for inestimable billions. Rich.

    Parent

    Note.. (none / 0) (#105)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Thu May 13, 2010 at 03:39:29 PM EST
    Date on that NYT story is May 3 (not today, May 13).

    Parent
    No (none / 0) (#107)
    by squeaky on Thu May 13, 2010 at 03:52:35 PM EST
    And now, we're being asked to accept caps on BP's outlay

    That is incorrect. There is a cap of $75mil in place. There is already a proposal to raise that number to $10bil. Considering that this country is not a dictatorship, or that the oil is nationalized, I do not think that "no cap" is possible. Although BP has "agreed" to pay for the entire mess, regardless of the cap... lol

    Key lawmakers on Thursday acknowledged that their proposal to increase to $10 billion the liability cap on companies responsible for offshore spills may not go far enough to ensure that BP bears the full cost of economic damages.



    Calling a $10 billion liability cap "much more appropriate" than the current $75 million ceiling, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) on Thursday left open the possibility that BP's liability could exceed that, even with a new liability cap in place, if the results of the spill that began on April 20 are viewed as multiple incidents.

....

    House authors of that legislation also acknowledged that their $10 billion figure was somewhat arbitrary, and not meant to set an ultimate limit....

    

"We wanted to put forth a substantial and meaningful increase in the cap to make sure that taxpayers are not on the hook for the damage caused by the oil companies," said Rep. Paul Hodes (D-N.H.), one of the original co-sponsors of the legislation, called the Big Oil Bailout Prevention Act.

    the Hill

    Parent

    I was under the impression (none / 0) (#116)
    by Raskolnikov on Thu May 13, 2010 at 04:37:57 PM EST
    that regardless of the economic cap BP is responsible for 100% of the cleanup costs associated.  Does "economic damages", in part, refer to unemployment payment for those in the industries affected for the duration of their unemployment?

    Parent
    Salon weighs in on new French film (none / 0) (#82)
    by oculus on Thu May 13, 2010 at 12:22:23 PM EST
    industry petition to "Free Roman."  salon

    Hoisted on his own Petard (none / 0) (#85)
    by squeaky on Thu May 13, 2010 at 12:38:16 PM EST
    It's about the enduring sense on this side of the Atlantic that America, even in the Obama era, remains a land of philistine, puritanical barbarity.

    Oh, and the lack of legal scholarship that he mocks, does not appear to have to apply to Mr O'Hehir:

    With the 76-year-old Oscar-winning director and convicted sex offender...

    Convicted? Well yes in the minds of the american public.

    Espinoza appeared to agree, saying of the 42 days Polanski spent in the state prison in Chino, "It's clear to me that was the intended sentence."
    But, he added, since the director skipped town on the eve of the hearing, sentencing was never formally imposed and the case remained open.

    TL

    Writing with such certainty, I do not understand why Mr. Ohehir does not argue that the court should sentence him in absentia.

    Parent

    blog comment of the day (none / 0) (#102)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu May 13, 2010 at 02:00:04 PM EST
    "Sara Palin:  Queen of the Danged"

    They couldnt come (none / 0) (#108)
    by jondee on Thu May 13, 2010 at 03:55:40 PM EST
    up with a more gender-neutral term than "Queen"?!

    Parent
    have we seen this (none / 0) (#103)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu May 13, 2010 at 02:04:06 PM EST
    Fired, and not a moment (none / 0) (#129)
    by Cream City on Thu May 13, 2010 at 10:23:55 PM EST
    too soon.

    Why do I suspect that there as well as here, charter schools are not necessarily subject to the same accountability as traditional public schools, including in requirements for teacher certification.

    Parent

    you know what (none / 0) (#135)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri May 14, 2010 at 09:24:47 AM EST
    if that was my kid, I dont care what he did, forget suing that person.  I would personally kick her ass.

    you want to play Ultimate Fighting?  lets see how you do with someone your own size.


    Parent

    Yep, I just found (none / 0) (#130)
    by Cream City on Thu May 13, 2010 at 10:33:16 PM EST
    the Texas state site re charter schools and the law:

    State law does not require a teacher employed by an open-enrollment charter school to be certified unless the teacher is assigned to teach special education or bilingual education, in which case the appropriate state certification is required. The  qualification under state law for a teacher at an open-enrollment charter school, other than a special education or bilingual education teacher, is a high school diploma.

    We have destroyed public education in my city, one of the first with charter schools, voucher schools, and such stuff now pushed nationally by the DoE -- and by Obama (and the Ayers Foundation).  And we here now have the studies to assess the longterm impact in charter schools, voucher schools, etc., as well as public schools.

    Of course, the church schools love it, getting a lot of our tax money but not being required to have the same accountability.  

    Parent

    The Latino boy I tutor is completing his (none / 0) (#131)
    by oculus on Thu May 13, 2010 at 11:05:05 PM EST
    first year at a charter school on the UC campus.  Wonderful opportunity for this very bright, motivated student, whose parents completed third grade in Mexico.  Teachers must have state credential at this school.  

    Parent
    From more research, another site (none / 0) (#134)
    by Cream City on Fri May 14, 2010 at 09:15:53 AM EST
    tells me the vast variance in states' requirements -- or not -- re charter schools.  Texas is one of the worst, but this may be a wake-up call there, as I also found news coverage there about the lack of certification requirements a la this case.  

    Several states do, though, require teachers to be certified -- so I'm glad that your protege is in one of the good states with standards.  I would not send a child to the charter schools in my state without a lot of checking. . . .

    Parent

    Of course, my anecdotal evidence is (none / 0) (#138)
    by oculus on Fri May 14, 2010 at 11:47:10 AM EST
    based on a sample of one.  This school's purpose is to get kids who meet the entrance criteria ready for and into a four-year college.  

    Parent
    the meme the meme!! (none / 0) (#106)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu May 13, 2010 at 03:46:37 PM EST
    oh my!

    Lowden losing to Harry Reid for the first time by 5 percentage points (42-37). Danny Tarkanian doing better than Lowden, tied with Reid (37-37).

    Scent of fear in the air for Republicans

    is that a typeo?  the meme says its in the air for the other guys.

    Withdrawal of US combat troops (none / 0) (#113)
    by ruffian on Thu May 13, 2010 at 04:26:38 PM EST
    from Iraq delayed.

    Who could have predicted?

    In a message to Congress yesterday, President Obama said the situation in Iraq continues to pose an unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States.

    If this is indeed true now I see no reason to believe that it will change in the near term(5 - 10 yrs) no matter what we do.

    This is unacceptable.

    Time for a re-authorization from Congress, with real costs figured in, since we know what they will be based on the last 8 years. Tell us how we are going to pay for it, like they had to do with HCR.

    Vietnam was taxed through (none / 0) (#117)
    by Raskolnikov on Thu May 13, 2010 at 04:43:44 PM EST
    phone bills and income tax, right?  I wasn't even a twinkle in my father's eye at the time so I really don't have any idea.  Not going to happen, but would certainly be a good way to demonstrate to people that the DoD actually costs money to run.

    Parent