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Tuesday Afternoon Open Thread

The oil spill looks worse and worse. They're talking about "top kill" now.

Jamaica is a mess too, lots of violence. The U.S. is trying to extradite a drug "kingpin" and his neighbors don't want him to go.

Christopher "Dudus" Coke, who was charged last year in U.S. federal court with conspiracy to distribute marijuana and cocaine and with conspiracy to traffic in firearms illegally....Coke maintains a heroic reputation in the Kingston slums, with some people comparing him to Robin Hood, Jesus and one-time Colombian kingpin Pablo Escobar. He has helped the community by handing out food, sending children to school and building medical centers.

His lawyer says he should face any charges in Jamaica, not the U.S.

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

< Colo. Gov. Signs Bill Reducing Drug Possession Penalties | Obama Yields to Demands for National Guard Along Border >
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    Dubya Stands For Wind Energy? (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by squeaky on Tue May 25, 2010 at 12:41:04 PM EST
    The American Wind Energy Association today announced that former President George W. Bush, U.S. Senator Byron Dorgan (D-N.D.), and Assistant Secretary for Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy Cathy Zoi will address the WINDPOWER 2010 Conference & Exhibition to be held in Dallas May 23-26.

    Interesting that this Palinesque notice is attached in all caps:

    NOTE TO REPORTERS AND MEDIA: NO PHOTOS, AUDIO OR VIDEO TAPING OR RECORDING WILL BE ALLOWED IN THE MAY 25 SESSION WITH PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH.  

    Wonder if there will be some sort of transcript..

    Starting to sound like an Eric Prince speech (none / 0) (#4)
    by Militarytracy on Tue May 25, 2010 at 12:53:59 PM EST
    obviously (none / 0) (#16)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue May 25, 2010 at 01:10:45 PM EST
    its a plot by Obama to keep us addicted to foreign oil.

    Parent
    What a personal friggin irritation (5.00 / 0) (#2)
    by Militarytracy on Tue May 25, 2010 at 12:52:14 PM EST
    I have going on this afternoon.  I'm not crazy about the FinReg I think we are getting.  The markets are taking a correction though because we will be getting some regulation, and government bailout will no longer be the health of the markets.  But the finance talking heads are beating the crap out of Obama right now on cable news.  Talk about being self absorbed and hopelessly selfish, the masters of the universe AND ALL OF THEIR TALKING HEADS really do think it is all about them.  FinReg will prevent the next global economy destroying crash but they can't bear the market correction that is justified in every single way that is reality based.  And it's making them all cry.  What a bunch of cry baby candy pants.  They almost blew us all up with their self absorption, and now they can't believe they will become one of the unwashed like the rest of us.  It is so irritating and tiresome.

    also (none / 0) (#11)
    by CST on Tue May 25, 2010 at 01:05:46 PM EST
    it couldn't possibly have anything to do with the European crisis.  Or the fact that there is about to be a war in Asia.  Nope, it must be those EEEEEVIL regulators.

    Parent
    How can anyone possibly know why (none / 0) (#13)
    by oculus on Tue May 25, 2010 at 01:08:28 PM EST
    stocks sold for lower price on average on any given day.

    Parent
    magic (none / 0) (#15)
    by CST on Tue May 25, 2010 at 01:10:16 PM EST
    dont forget (none / 0) (#28)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue May 25, 2010 at 01:27:48 PM EST
    china is poised on the brink of a bubble as well they say.

    gird your loins.


    Parent

    Was that really (none / 0) (#32)
    by jondee on Tue May 25, 2010 at 01:34:29 PM EST
    your Mohammad drawing the other day?

    Parent
    it was my drawing (none / 0) (#37)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue May 25, 2010 at 01:45:45 PM EST
    it was not originally meant to be the big MO.

    I figured the cloven hooves would be offensive enough to use him.


    Parent

    I was going to say (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by jondee on Tue May 25, 2010 at 01:48:43 PM EST
    For future reference, according to the Koran and all subsequent Islamic commentaries, Mohammad was much more well hung than that. Infidel.

    Parent
    heh (none / 0) (#49)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue May 25, 2010 at 01:57:41 PM EST
    from there up it was an old boyfriend

    Parent
    You did that? (none / 0) (#40)
    by Militarytracy on Tue May 25, 2010 at 01:48:14 PM EST
    It was pretty cool.  I liked it.  Wondered who had done it.

    Parent
    did you like the crazy (none / 0) (#52)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue May 25, 2010 at 01:59:13 PM EST
    foo foo gold gilt frame.  it has gotten a couple of laughs.


    Parent
    The frame was odd (none / 0) (#57)
    by Militarytracy on Tue May 25, 2010 at 02:09:52 PM EST
    but I liked the print.

    Parent
    it is a (none / 0) (#59)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue May 25, 2010 at 02:11:36 PM EST
    pencil drawing

    Parent
    same as (none / 0) (#60)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue May 25, 2010 at 02:13:17 PM EST
    That's pretty wild (none / 0) (#175)
    by Militarytracy on Wed May 26, 2010 at 05:12:11 AM EST
    Both are very interesting, the subjects are unusual.  I got Joshua a book on how to draw dragons to go with his book How to Train Your Dragon and we work on drawing one together on the weekends for a few hours.  I save his efforts so he can see his improvement as he learns more about the more formal and studied planning and mechanics of drawing.  His hands lack some small muscle groups, but most people with his degree of affected hands come to fully compensate for it, and now his OT has sent a note home about ending his OT because she believes he is fully compensating now in his handwriting.  And his writing is pretty good.

    Parent
    but thanks (none / 0) (#56)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue May 25, 2010 at 02:04:13 PM EST
    it was an expansion of this which I did on a plane in about 1979.

    I do that a lot.  if I do a sketch I like I do a more finished version or versions.

    Parent

    My theory: (none / 0) (#77)
    by Zorba on Tue May 25, 2010 at 02:51:38 PM EST
    They're like lemmings.  "That guy's going over the cliff for no discernible reason!  Let's all go!   Aaaaahhhh!"  (And yes, I do realize that the Disney film about lemming mass suicide was a stage-managed fiction.)  If there were people who always knew exactly why stocks went down (or up) on any particular day, they would make fortunes playing the stock market.  Even Warren Buffet is wrong occasionally.

    Parent
    They did start out talking about (none / 0) (#29)
    by Militarytracy on Tue May 25, 2010 at 01:29:57 PM EST
    the European crisis.  Things began there this morning, but as things refused to quickly rebound more and more FinReg began slipping into the blame.  Then that moved right into Obama and how much campaign money Wall Street invested in him and now he is stabbing them in the back.  Grrrrr....could they get anymore ignorant?  It is only my opinion, but because the European markets are not being generously government bailed out I think that their correction is inspiring ours.  The U.S. markets have been so hopelessly soft with no real spine for so long, we don't have a lot of liquidity and that is being tested now too.  I think in the future I'm going to be more inclined to put some money in European markets because they may represent actual health and wealth at an earlier date moreso than U.S. markets.  I will have to do some investigating though before I jump cleanly for that conclusion.

    Parent
    frnny real life (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue May 25, 2010 at 03:10:04 PM EST
    from another blog:

    Me: You can't sell a home equity loan to someone you know is about to be laid off.

    Salespeople: (blank stares)

    Me: Remember the three Cs of lending? Collateral, Character and Capacity? This is the Capacity part. Like repaying, you know? Otherwise that's a Liar's Loan, which you may have heard contributed to the total economic collapse.

    Salespeople: But that's why we need to close the loan now, before the client loses their job. They won't be able to qualify for the loan after that.

    Me: (possible concussion from repeated head to desk slamming)

    Parent

    Not talking about this minute :) (none / 0) (#176)
    by Militarytracy on Wed May 26, 2010 at 05:18:44 AM EST
    Later

    Parent
    I wouldn't place any bets (none / 0) (#146)
    by reslez on Tue May 25, 2010 at 05:28:42 PM EST
    on Euro-zone economies. The ECB is publicly committed to deflation. Unintended blowback from spending cuts and budget austerity will shrink GDP across the EMU. And the conservative government in the UK is on the same path to ruin.

    People talk about Japan's "lost decade" without realizing how much worse things could have been. Japan has run huge budget deficits for years to maintain 5% unemployment. And the government continues to borrow at low rates -- the 10 year bond is at 1.215%. It was when the government dialed back spending in 1997 and 2001 that the economy again fell off the dock. Compared with the European plan to gut public spending and the accompanying human misery that will entail, Japan's lost decade doesn't look so bad. It will be tremendously difficult to coordinate the radical change needed to salvage the EMU. Germans are too busy congratulating themselves as thrifty and hardworking when they work far fewer hours and have more household debt than the "lazy" indebted Greeks. I don't think the European public will allow the elites to save this experiment.

    Parent

    Japan stiffled any vitality (5.00 / 1) (#178)
    by Militarytracy on Wed May 26, 2010 at 06:10:15 AM EST
    that their recovery could have had with how they handled things.  When financial institutions have done what has been done, there is only pain to be had.  Take it now, take it later, the EU isn't going to fall apart because of this because the EU is about people, not money.  The masters of the universe all act like money is the only thing holding the world together, and when they are allowed to rule the world with this world view somehow human beings always end up cheapened and abused.  Human beings hold our world together.  The depression taught this country that, and then we worked very hard to forget it again.

    Parent
    I'm more convinced by the day... (none / 0) (#14)
    by kdog on Tue May 25, 2010 at 01:10:09 PM EST
    that letting this b*tch blow up woulda been the best play...it's a global economy based on destruction...there is no FinReg reforming of this wooly mammoth...it is what it is till its Mad Max time.  Crazy as it sounds, Mad Max should be easier on our consciences, even with the harder living...I'm tired of the blood all over everything.

    Parent
    You may be right (none / 0) (#31)
    by Militarytracy on Tue May 25, 2010 at 01:31:18 PM EST
    I don't think if we would have federalized the banks we would have gone Mad Max, but I could have been wrong about that too because it was never done.

    Parent
    I'm not talking federalizing... (none / 0) (#42)
    by kdog on Tue May 25, 2010 at 01:49:43 PM EST
    I'm talking letting the homeless squat the coporate headquarters of Sh*ttiBank and Goldman Grift...letting them and their leechery leave this mortal coil forever...joining the slave ships on the scrap heap of history.

    Parent
    Visiting NYC? (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by squeaky on Tue May 25, 2010 at 01:00:57 PM EST
    This is something not to be missed, imo:

    Gagosian Gallery is pleased to present "Claude Monet: Late Work." The most significant gathering of Monet's late paintings to take place in New York in more than thirty years, it will focus on the most important late subjects drawn from his gardens at Giverny--Nymphéas, Le pont japonais, and L'allée de rosiers--which are among the most treasured paintings of his long and prodigious career. [closes June 26]

    Interesting, of late, the commercial galleries have been out doing the museums in terms of high quality exhibitions.

    Get thee behind me, satan. (none / 0) (#9)
    by oculus on Tue May 25, 2010 at 01:03:03 PM EST
    Translation? (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by squeaky on Tue May 25, 2010 at 01:08:03 PM EST
    Care to elucidate?

    Parent
    Matthew 16:23: (none / 0) (#17)
    by oculus on Tue May 25, 2010 at 01:11:21 PM EST
    bible

    As you know, I just got back from NYC and must resist all temptation to return--for awhile.

    Parent

    Oh (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by squeaky on Tue May 25, 2010 at 01:17:24 PM EST
    I got the quote, but did not understand that it had to do with your cycle of addiction and recovery to NYC.  

    Gagosian, is considered the devil, by some.


    Parent

    Relatedly, someone just did a study (none / 0) (#67)
    by jondee on Tue May 25, 2010 at 02:29:52 PM EST
    in which they found that a person's morning mood determines whether they see Jesus' or Satan's face  on that burnt Pop Tart..

    Parent
    Or... (none / 0) (#21)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue May 25, 2010 at 01:18:06 PM EST
    They must be for sale (none / 0) (#107)
    by ZtoA on Tue May 25, 2010 at 04:11:24 PM EST
    Wonder who is selling off their collection?

    Also, did you see about the art theft at Paris Museum of Modern Art? A broken window, a smashed padlock, and one guy walks in and apparently the guards were asleep or not paying attention, and he takes 5 paintings off the wall and walks out with them. Then, on the street he carefully removed them from the frames and left the frames there. link

    Parent

    Not Necessarily (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by squeaky on Tue May 25, 2010 at 04:41:59 PM EST
    The exhibition has been made possible with the generosity of the many public and private international collections willing to share key works to create this auspicious occasion. Among the participating museums from the United States, Europe, and Japan are the Art Institute of Chicago, the Honolulu Academy of Arts, the Fondation Beyeler, Basel, the Musée Marmottan-Monet, Paris, the Pola Museum in Hakone, and Kitaykushu Museum.

    Maybe one is for sale, but it does not really matter because this type of museum quality show only brings in more top clients who will buy the other 1000 things Gagosian has to offer. For the super rich, this type of show indicates that Gagosian is at the top of the food chain ergo the one to curry favor with.  Maybe, just maybe, if you are nice ($$$) enough and buy lots of things, have a good collection, play by the rules, you may eventually gain access and be near the top of the list allowing you to purchase something special, rare and of course super expensive.

    As for the Museum theft, s/he was probably an alarm specialist, knew exactly what s/he was doing, yet will never be able to unload the works. Al-Jereeza has a good piece on the theft, interview with a detective who specializes in art theft..

    Parent

    unless (none / 0) (#124)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue May 25, 2010 at 04:44:54 PM EST
    buyers were already lined up

    Parent
    No Way (5.00 / 1) (#147)
    by squeaky on Tue May 25, 2010 at 05:31:24 PM EST
    why on earth (none / 0) (#148)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue May 25, 2010 at 05:34:29 PM EST
    would they do it then?  
    thrills?


    Parent
    For Arts Sake (5.00 / 1) (#153)
    by squeaky on Tue May 25, 2010 at 05:47:17 PM EST
    And the status of putting on a show that upstages the museums.

    To get private lenders and institutions to lend these works to a commercial gallery is a herculean feat that speaks to the power of Gagosian. His sales are in the 100's of millions annually, if not billions.

    Another way of looking at this, from a purely commercial point of view, is that the show is cheap advertising, guaranteed bullseye for the target audience.

    Parent

    Yes, thrills (none / 0) (#169)
    by ZtoA on Tue May 25, 2010 at 09:44:55 PM EST
    Some say it is a "vanity" crime. It is a really odd crime. Yes, it might be a woman, but 5 paintings around 36"x40" framed are really sort of a chore to carry. And the thief gathered them from different rooms. "Oh, I'm gonna just walk around and see just what I want off these walls".... Who knows?? And then the thief stops on the street and carefully pries the paintings out of the frames and leaves the frames just sitting there on the street.

    It could be someone who wants a reality show. A contemporary Rupert Pupkin.

    BTW, Howdy, I liked your pencil drawing (large and large). I really like well crafted truly odd and individualistic non-commercial art.

    Parent

    oops!! (none / 0) (#170)
    by ZtoA on Tue May 25, 2010 at 09:46:31 PM EST
    thought the tread was about the art theft not the art show.

    Hmmmmm..... maybe small difference. :)

    Parent

    I suppose Al-Jazeera thinks (none / 0) (#130)
    by ZtoA on Tue May 25, 2010 at 04:57:59 PM EST
    the thief was an alarm specialist because  

    Paris Mayor Bertrand Delanoe said Friday part of the alarm system has been malfunctioning for weeks and is still awaiting repair.

    Some kind of insider most probably. The theft was brazen.

    Parent

    OK (5.00 / 1) (#149)
    by squeaky on Tue May 25, 2010 at 05:35:06 PM EST
    Makes sense, the Musee Modern is pretty bad, imo. Maybe it is a budget thing that forces them to cut corners, but it is not a place I would ever lend work to.

    Not sure the theft was so brazen, more likely well planned theft in combination with a poorly run museum.

    Parent

    Maybe Brazen is not the right word (none / 0) (#171)
    by ZtoA on Tue May 25, 2010 at 10:05:30 PM EST
    but it is sort of in your face don't you think? This person pretty much walks into the museum and takes 5 paintings off walls in different rooms, meanwhile the alarm system is not working and the guards are sleeping or otherwise not paying attention. Then the thief walks out, and carrying 5 paintings in those frames is a work out. And then the thief stops on the street ("see me yet?") and carefully pries each painting from its frame (?) and leaves the frames on the sidewalk neatly stacked.

    Parent
    Timely adage: you don't have to be a chicken (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Tue May 25, 2010 at 01:16:55 PM EST
    to comment on an omelet.

    In the wake of the BP Spill, some TL folks are saying they don't feel qualified to comment, given the crushing enormity, and complexity, of the problem. Stop it!

    Question: since when have any of us felt that we needed to be an 'inside expert' to comprehend and make an informed comment on any given subject?

    We weren't intimidated into confusion and silence by: 9/11; WMD; the 'war on terror'; Hurricane Katrina; the Iraq and Afghan Wars; the financial crisis/bailouts; the health care debacle; the fallacy of 'clean coal'; the lunacy of off-shore and deep water oil drilling; etc.

    We are not stupid people. So, let's do what we've always done: start by assuming the 'official story' is a lie of epic proportions. Then read, read, read about the subject, from a variety of sources, and come to a reasonably informed perspective about WTF is going on, who's responsible, and what needs to be done. We are good at this, goddamn it.

    Okay (5.00 / 0) (#38)
    by Militarytracy on Tue May 25, 2010 at 01:46:56 PM EST
    Coast Guard Admiral Allen should be immediately replaced.  What an utterly embarassing failure.  When the people LA notice that skimmers are just sitting there while the oil is hitting the coast it is time for Admiral Allen to go away.  Skimming ain't rocket science and if Admiral Allen can be on top of anything at all, for Christ's friggin sake that has got to be it.  I'm done, finished, kaput with Good Job Brownie moments.

    Parent
    Well, I guess (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by Zorba on Tue May 25, 2010 at 01:51:38 PM EST
    Admiral Allen didn't realize that the Coast Guard's job is to, you know, "guard the coast."

    Parent
    "Guard the Coast"... (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by kdog on Tue May 25, 2010 at 01:54:56 PM EST
    from cocaine-filled subs...not oil. Silly Zorba...get your priorities straight!

    I hope the Coast Guard's efforts in intercepting the poisons people want coming ashore is not interrupted by their efforts intercepting the poisons people don't want coming ashore.

    Parent

    {Palm smacks forehead} (none / 0) (#104)
    by Zorba on Tue May 25, 2010 at 04:07:01 PM EST
    But of course!  What could I have been thinking???

    Parent
    If we want the government.. (5.00 / 1) (#134)
    by kdog on Tue May 25, 2010 at 05:02:05 PM EST
    to step it up a notch here, all we need is for some coke-subs to stall in the Gulf of Petro.

    Parent
    Whahh... did somebody say "smack"? (none / 0) (#174)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Wed May 26, 2010 at 03:36:01 AM EST
    Tracy, Coast Guard Admiral Robert Papp (none / 0) (#83)
    by KeysDan on Tue May 25, 2010 at 03:05:13 PM EST
    succeeded Admiral Thad Allen earlier today (May 25) as commander of the Coast Guard.  However, Admiral Allen will stay on as President Obama's point man, being named National Incident Commander for the BP oil spill response.

    Parent
    If Allen (none / 0) (#106)
    by Zorba on Tue May 25, 2010 at 04:10:33 PM EST
    is staying on as National Incident Commander for the oil spill, why I am not reassured that he was replaced as Admiral of the Coast Guard?  Unless this is just a face-saving, mostly PR-type of position for Allen.

    Parent
    every time I hear/read Coast Guard (none / 0) (#163)
    by oculus on Tue May 25, 2010 at 06:50:08 PM EST
    in connecctino with BP spill, I wonder what the Coast Guard knows about stopping and/or cleaning up oil spills.

    Parent
    Allen says he's running this show (none / 0) (#177)
    by Militarytracy on Wed May 26, 2010 at 05:22:31 AM EST
    If he is then he needs to be fired ASAP.  I'd say he has run aground.

    Parent
    I didn't need this disaster to inform my opinion (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by ruffian on Tue May 25, 2010 at 02:42:19 PM EST
    about offshore drilling. It was always a disaster waiting to happen, and I am against Obama's considering to do more of it. It will be a big influence in my next voting opportunity, both local and national.

    I'll continue to read more about cleanup techniques, and if I find a reliable source about some technique that sounds worth a try, I'll support it in any way I can.

    I continue to believe that the leak cannot be stopped. Nothing I have read about methods that have been tried on much shallower wells gives me any hope for this. I'll be happy to be proved wrong.

    I don't know what else to say about it. It's horrible and I'm mad at everyone involved. I'm boycotting BP and I've signed more than one 'dump Salazar' petition. In fact I think I signed some before this ever happened.

    Parent

    Ah, Sirota's "dump Salazar" petition (5.00 / 2) (#84)
    by christinep on Tue May 25, 2010 at 03:06:13 PM EST
    Well...wasn't the BP permit issued under the previous Administration? But, if "dumping" the new guy (and, in the govt, bud, one year is "new") makes you feel better, fine. Then, we'll get another "new" guy who will have to take a year or so to learn the ropes at Interior--as they all do-- and, voila, another year gone. Methinks, it would help to look at what Salazar now does to shake up certain stale components of the Department (as he is already doing with MMS) and put our own pressure on the development of new standards for permitting in the Gulf. I would expect new standards to be proposed in the Federal Register in the next few months. Get involved, write a comment directly to Interior, go to the hearing(s) in your area that will inevitably follow.

    Parent
    Well put... (5.00 / 2) (#95)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue May 25, 2010 at 03:31:36 PM EST
    ...as was your previous comment (even though my old eyes would have prefered a paragraph or two!).  Of course, we're aware of the problems at MMS from the old GAO report on the Denver office that pre-date Ken's appointment.  

    That didn't happen in a vacuum.  No doubt in my mind it was enabled (and probably encouraged) by the previous administration.

    Parent

    of course it was (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue May 25, 2010 at 03:36:28 PM EST
    and I mostly agree except Salazar never gave me a lot of confidence.

    could the be the hat.


    Parent

    About Salazar (none / 0) (#117)
    by christinep on Tue May 25, 2010 at 04:30:17 PM EST
    Generally, Ken Salazar was highly regarded in Colorado earlier on as its AG and, then, as Senator. Depending on where you sit, as a politician here, he would almost be in the center or a bit left of center...his ratings in Colorado from the public were definitely higher than any other politician. On environmentalism and energy: Salazar at Interior early on displeased Republicans and the gas & oil boys by reversing the previous Secretary's opening up of the Roan Plateau in western Colorado (as I recall he changed the presumption in favor of development there much to the delight of the ordinary citizens who lived nearby.) My thought about Salazar: I did not start out as a fan years ago; but, the man does have a genuineness about him and will move in the direction that is positive...albeit, cautiously at first.

    Parent
    Suggestion Christinep (5.00 / 2) (#125)
    by squeaky on Tue May 25, 2010 at 04:46:06 PM EST
    I always like to read your thoughtful and insightful comments. If you wouldn't mind, making a paragraph after a few sentences would make it easier on the eyes, as MileHi Hawkeye also mentioned.

    Long paragraphs are visually hard to read.

    Parent

    Will do. Thanks, Squeaky & MileHi (none / 0) (#156)
    by christinep on Tue May 25, 2010 at 06:02:44 PM EST
    as long as he's not being given (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by Jeralyn on Tue May 25, 2010 at 04:50:55 PM EST
    crime duties, I'm ok. As AG and Senator, he was neither progressive nor center on crime but right of center. Of course, as AG that was his job. As Senator, it was not. I was very glad when he moved to Interior.


    Parent
    That is more my memory of (5.00 / 2) (#165)
    by ruffian on Tue May 25, 2010 at 07:15:16 PM EST
    Colorado when I lived there. I never considered him left of center. Definitely right of center. It seemed to me that he was considered fit to run the Dept of Interior based on very limited credentials. But I can see where that was a safer place to put him than Justice!

    Parent
    Loving your irony Ruffian... (none / 0) (#167)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Tue May 25, 2010 at 07:36:53 PM EST
    Regarding Salazar's appointment to the Dept of Interior:
    I can see where that was a safer place to put him than Justice!

    That was irony, right?


    Parent

    Yep. I focus a lot on civil remedies. (none / 0) (#157)
    by christinep on Tue May 25, 2010 at 06:08:25 PM EST
    I hope that Salazar's Interior will take a very close look at criminal referral in the BP case. On his role as Senator: Good point. Tho, a question: Has any Colorado Senator performed courageously in the emotion-laden area regarding criminal law?

    Parent
    the more I read about it (none / 0) (#24)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue May 25, 2010 at 01:24:20 PM EST
    the more hopeless it seems.  
    its terrifying that no one, not BP, not the government, no one seems to have any idea any idea how to deal with this with any certainty.

    how the hell did we get this far without a plan B?

    Parent

    Its been a process (5.00 / 0) (#45)
    by christinep on Tue May 25, 2010 at 01:55:25 PM EST
    Starting during the Reagan years, pressure dramatically increased to issue permits for any number of new sources in the name of "reform." The pressures to accept the companies' versions of predicted air emissions or discharges into water tended to decrease after the first term and environmental debacle documented under EPA Administrator A. Gorsuch. However, deep personnel cuts had been made in oversite and enforcement (the old what you don't have the resources to see won't hurt you.) Bush I was actually fairly decent in the environmental area, and his appointed EPA Administrator William Reilly started to focus on climate change in a meaningful way. The Clinton years saw upgrades in enforcement (via the type of separation of permitting from inspections, enforcement that Sec. Salazar is moving on with Interior's MMS)and pushed for a resurgence of environmental focus via Administrator Browner. The, guess what? Bush II, and back to the 80s with downplaying enforcement (looking at "public private partnerships" and "voluntary compliance") and the "customer service" of getting those permits out the door quickly--and, I might add, without adequate staff to do thorough evaluations even if they wanted to do so. Turning to Interior: If EPA had various pressures over the years, it may help to view the situation at Interior--beginning with James Watt and revisited with Gail Norton under Bush II--as being far more problematic. Why? My take is that the news spotlight tended to fall on EPA for matters environmental and the various specialty groups within Interior could easier go about the business of following the particular Administration's priorities. (See MMS, e.g.) This is lengthy, but the history of how this all came about is discussed from the 1980s perspective by Jonathan Lash in a book "Season of Spoils." Bush II may have been Spoils redux. So...how did Salazar's new Interior get to be where they are? Think about where they came from, what processes have been under way for years, the immense size of Interior (with its fiefdoms that take years to figure out), career v. non-career employees in MMS and their "culture," and the ultimate rude awakening that practically guaranteed for a new Secretary. From my perspective then, it will be quite informative to watch Salazar--i.e, his reorganization moves at MMS are key to that group's improved performance as they now know who is boss and that permit review and issuances will be expected to done a bit differently than in the years leading up to this. I also think that where resources in the Department are allocated next year will be telling; whether revised standards for permit issuance (when individual and when categorical) are drafted and issued in the months ahead. Who is President is central throughout the bureacracy because it may well set the tone, organization, expectations for years to come. It took awhile to get here, and it will take awhile to pull ourselves out of the Bush buddy-buddy culture with the BPs of the environmental universe.

    Parent
    Couldja throw in (5.00 / 1) (#154)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue May 25, 2010 at 05:49:52 PM EST
    a paragraph break every few sentences, pretty please?  I always like to read your stuff, but that's awfully hard to read in one looooonnnng graph.

    Parent
    Browner (none / 0) (#172)
    by Rojas on Tue May 25, 2010 at 11:14:26 PM EST
    Didn't Browner push MTBE long after it was shown to be poisoning the ground water? Her EPA mandated an environmental disaster.

     

    Parent

    Actually, the hearings on MTBE (none / 0) (#183)
    by christinep on Wed May 26, 2010 at 07:18:09 PM EST
    took place under Bush I. One of the hearings occurred in Denver...Bush's counsel Boyden Gray served on the panel (Irony of ironies, so did I along with national EPA reps and Colorado Health Dept. regs.) To be precise, the hearing was not just directed toward MTBE, but the additive was a key component.

    Parent
    Oxenagenates made some sense (none / 0) (#184)
    by Rojas on Tue Jun 01, 2010 at 08:41:33 AM EST
    when the national fleet was using carburetters. At what point did you realize MTBE was a mistake?

    Parent
    Meanwhile, (none / 0) (#34)
    by Zorba on Tue May 25, 2010 at 01:39:39 PM EST
    in the never-ending saga of "you can't make this stuff up, BP Spill Edition":

    Oil giant BP said its internal investigation of the unchecked Gulf oil spill is largely focused on work done by other companies as a new government report Tuesday showed workers at the federal agency that oversees offshore drilling accepted sports tickets, lunches and other gifts from oil and gas companies.

    (emphasis added by moi)

    Link

    Parent

    From another, you can't make this stuff up. (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by KeysDan on Tue May 25, 2010 at 02:33:57 PM EST
    BP's official response plan, filed June 30, 2009, says nothing about how a blowout would be stopped, but it does list walruses as the Gulf's sensitive biological resources.  Seems like those regulators are really on their toes--nothing gets by them.

    Parent
    A friend who owns an environmental (none / 0) (#162)
    by oculus on Tue May 25, 2010 at 06:48:12 PM EST
    testing comopany says her company and others must always spell out contingency plans as part of the contracting process.  Also sd., whoever heard of telling EPA to go pound sand re use of potentially dangerous chemicals re cleanup.

    Parent
    "Other gifts" being cocaine (5.00 / 0) (#69)
    by Joan in VA on Tue May 25, 2010 at 02:35:10 PM EST
    and prostitutes. Lunches and sports tickets are for chumps!

    Parent
    honest (none / 0) (#39)
    by CST on Tue May 25, 2010 at 01:47:04 PM EST
    "scientific" opinion here, based on what I've read about it so far.  We're completely f*cked.

    And that's not coming from any belief in what the government is telling me.  Quite the opposite.

    What needs to be done - magic???  Prevention of future leaks.  Clean up to the best of our ability.  And as for the containment or stopping of the current leak, it's pretty astonishing that it's been happening for weeks and it seems like no one has a clue how to stop it.  But nothing I've read about the subject so far really makes me think that anyone knows what should be happening.

    Parent

    Australia went through this (none / 0) (#51)
    by Militarytracy on Tue May 25, 2010 at 01:58:32 PM EST
    a couple of months ahead of us. If anything was an indication that there must be Plan B and Plan C for deep sea drilling....it should have been their environmental disaster.  They did eventually get the well capped 10 weeks later through the use of drilling a successful relief well.  The sea depth though was much less than what we deal with in the Gulf, but was still classified deep sea.

    Parent
    oh there was clearly (5.00 / 3) (#58)
    by CST on Tue May 25, 2010 at 02:10:17 PM EST
    no plan B, or C or Z for that matter.  And all scientific studies I've read about past leaks show... the environment never really fully recovers from this.  Or at least, not in the time period we've been working at it so far.  It's like the giant garbage heap in the middle of the ocean.

    If this isn't a wake-up call for people that our current energy system is not sustainable, than I don't know what is.  Although apparently it's "elitist" or "un-American" to suggest that people might have to change their lifestyle in order to solve it.

    Parent

    I think that is the problem (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by ruffian on Tue May 25, 2010 at 02:51:10 PM EST
    Some things really cannot be fixed, no matter how many backup plans you think you have. That's why some things should never be attempted in the first place. We understand this about things that directly kill people, but not about the environment. We don't try out a dangerous new drug on people for the first time, with a backup plan of, 'oh,  I think I have an antidote. No one would allow that, but we allow it with the environment.

    I think our love affair with technology has lead us to believe we can fix anything, but we can't.

    Parent

    "Plug the damn hole," (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue May 25, 2010 at 02:59:54 PM EST
    Obama told them.

    It is now apparent that BP did not have an effective plan for dealing with a large spill, despite its assertion in a March 2009 exploration plan submitted to the Minerals Management Service that it could handle a "worst-case scenario" blowout that produced 300,000 gallons a day.

    But it appears that no other company drilling in the deep waters of the Gulf of Mexico had such a plan, either, or it would have been brought in to stop the spill. That ultimately calls into question the rigor of the MMS, which could have required the stockpiling of the equipment that it has taken BP five weeks to assemble for Wednesday's effort to stop the spill at the well head.



    Parent
    how about (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue May 25, 2010 at 03:04:55 PM EST
    fix the damn regulators?

    Inspector General's Inquiry Faults Regulators

    WASHINGTON -- Federal regulators responsible for oversight of drilling in the Gulf of Mexico allowed industry officials several years ago to fill in their own inspection reports in pencil -- and then turned them over to the regulators, who traced over them in pen before submitting the reports to the agency, according to an inspector general's report to be released this week.


    Parent
    That is the way I see it (5.00 / 1) (#166)
    by ruffian on Tue May 25, 2010 at 07:19:08 PM EST
    there is no effective plan because there is no effective plan. An MMS that was competent and not in the pocket of the oil companies may have seen that, or maybe not. Seems the attitude was to err on the side of allowing the drilling.

    Parent
    I guess that's why (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by CST on Tue May 25, 2010 at 03:08:39 PM EST
    it's hard for me to get angry about the response to the spill, besides the whole lying about it thing.  I mean, it seems to me like they have been trying a lot of $hit and it's just not working...  capping, burning, skimming, sticking in some other smaller pipe to siphon, spraying weird chemicals that might or might not be making things worse.  I mean someone here literally suggested nuking the thing the other day.  At that point I was like ok, we've clearly run out of reasonable ideas.

    You can't stop a bomb that has already gone off.  That's why you don't detonate it to begin with.

    Parent

    I think BP (none / 0) (#110)
    by ZtoA on Tue May 25, 2010 at 04:15:24 PM EST
    should discontinue using dispersants altogether. No more Corexit. No Sea Brat.

    Parent
    Talk like Yoda Day... (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue May 25, 2010 at 01:24:05 PM EST
    ...it is not.  That was the 21st.  It is, however, Geek Pride Day today--so there's that.

    heh (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue May 25, 2010 at 01:24:50 PM EST
    I hear the parade is a hoot.

    Parent
    I liked that Yoda-in-drag (none / 0) (#36)
    by jondee on Tue May 25, 2010 at 01:45:13 PM EST
    one: "Cute in this outfit, I look.."

    Parent
    "does this big . . . (none / 0) (#143)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue May 25, 2010 at 05:15:53 PM EST
    . . . make my a$$ look?"

    Parent
    Does my ass make this dress look fat? (none / 0) (#159)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Tue May 25, 2010 at 06:13:28 PM EST
    Overheard from my next door neighbor practicing an amateur stand-up routine. Not that I endorse the joke.

    Parent
    it also (none / 0) (#46)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue May 25, 2010 at 01:56:05 PM EST
    Towel Day in honor of Douglas Adams  

    Parent
    Day late and nickel short... (none / 0) (#48)
    by kdog on Tue May 25, 2010 at 01:56:16 PM EST
    you guys are.

    Parent
    Story of my life,,, (none / 0) (#61)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue May 25, 2010 at 02:14:52 PM EST
    ...it is.

    Parent
    Here's a battle (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by CST on Tue May 25, 2010 at 02:03:30 PM EST
    I can pick.

    No new permits.  Link

    "The safety review is due this Friday, and the Obama administration will use it to help decide when and how drilling should resume."

    Of course the drilling association says they already have 20 senators in their pockets.  I wonder how much that cost them.

    oh (5.00 / 2) (#72)
    by CST on Tue May 25, 2010 at 02:40:41 PM EST
    and as a pre-emptive post for all those concerned about the "job losses" that will occur due to the lack of drilling...

    How about these job losses?

    We are always so concerned about the "blue collar oil rig" worker.  But apparently fishermen, restaurant owners, and all those who make money off the rest of the environment can go $crew themselves.

    Parent

    Yes... (5.00 / 2) (#74)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue May 25, 2010 at 02:50:05 PM EST
    ...the drill baby drill crowd here have been crying for some time about our new oil and gas regs driving out jobs (blatenly false) while not giving a flying f*ck about the harm they do to the natural enviroment, which so very many people out here in the West depend upon for their jobs.  

    Parent
    Those jobs... (none / 0) (#92)
    by kdog on Tue May 25, 2010 at 03:19:31 PM EST
    are in the DFH sector...restaurants are little more than an undocumented workers paradise, plotting La Raza's coup while they scrub pots and pans...they should consider themselves lucky to be only out of work and not locked up.

    Parent
    Yet, they have been allowing modifications (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by Joan in VA on Tue May 25, 2010 at 02:50:14 PM EST
    to existing permits all this time even if that involves drilling an entirely new well. Not much has been stopped under the so-called moratorium.

    I was thrilled to see Sen. Ben Cardin(MD) voicing his complete opposition to drilling off VA because of the fragile state of the Chesapeake Bay. Unlike my own Senators who are a complete disgrace on this issue. Guess they are two of the 20.

    Parent

    1200 troops headed to the border... (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by kdog on Tue May 25, 2010 at 02:37:35 PM EST
    more misappropriated resources.  Link

    Ground zero for this "crime wave" is over on Wall St, or the sister offices in DC...send 'em there.

    When is a line-item veto (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by Anne on Tue May 25, 2010 at 03:38:52 PM EST
    not a line-item veto?

    Why, when it's a modified version, and contained in the Reduce Unnecessary Spending Act of 2010 (PDF).

    From the text of Obama's introduction to the Act:

    This proposal will be another important step in restoring fiscal discipline and making sure that Washington spends taxpayer dollars responsibly. It will provide a new tool to streamline Government programs and operations, cut wasteful Government spending, and enhance transparency and accountability to the American people. The legislation will create an expedited procedure to rescind unnecessary spending and to broadly scale back funding levels if warranted. The legislation would require the Congress to vote up or down on legislation proposed by the President to rescind funding. This new, enhanced rescission authority will not only empower the President and the Congress to eliminate unnecessary spending, but also discourage waste in the first place.

    [snip]

    The legislation allows the President to target spending policies that do not have a legitimate and worthy public purpose by providing the President with an additional authority to propose the elimination of wasteful or excessive funding. These proposals then receive expedited consideration in the Congress and a guaranteed up-or-down vote. This legislation would also allow the President to delay funding for these projects until the Congress has had the chance to consider the changes. In addition, this proposal has been crafted to preserve the constitutional balance of power between the President and the Congress.

    This is, in my opinion, merely the prelude to what happens after the Cat Food Commission issues its report in December, after the election; this just paving the way for cuts against which we will have little or no ability to protest.

    Oh, sure, there's language in there about "legitimate and worthy public purpose," but when I read "expedited consideration" and "guaranteed up-or-down vote" I also read "will happen before we know what hit us," and "no way to filibuster a spending item that ought to be sent straight to hell."  

    I have to say that it just makes me feel sick inside at what I see as a concerted and deliberate strategy to once again take more from those who will least be able to afford it.  


    Another great idea by Bush, er, Obama (2.00 / 1) (#128)
    by jbindc on Tue May 25, 2010 at 04:54:46 PM EST
    From Wiki:

    Though the Supreme Court struck down the Line Item Veto Act in 1998, President George W. Bush asked Congress to enact legislation that would return the line item veto power to the Executive. First announcing his intent to seek such legislation in his January 31, 2006 State of the Union address, President Bush sent a legislative proposal Legislative Line Item Veto Act of 2006 to Congress on March 6, 2006, urging its prompt passage.[17] Senator Bill Frist, Senator John McCain, and Republican Whip Senator Mitch McConnell jointly introduced this proposal.

    On that same day, Joshua Bolten, the Director of the Office of Management and Budget, gave a press conference on the president's line-item veto proposal. Bolten explained that the proposed Act would give the President the ability to single out "wasteful" spending and to put such spending on hold. While the spending line-item is on hold, the President can send legislation to Congress to rescind the particular line-item. The proposal would then be considered in both houses within ten days on an up or down basis, and could be passed by a simple majority. Additionally, such proposals could not be filibustered.

    When asked how this proposed legislation was different from the 1996 Line Item Veto Act that was found unconstitutional by the United States Supreme Court, Bolten said that whereas the former act granted unilateral authority to the Executive to disallow specific spending line items, the new proposal would seek Congressional approval of such line-item vetoes. Thus, in order for the President to successfully rescind previously enacted spending, a simple majority of Congress is required to agree to specific legislation to that effect.

    Though the current line-item veto proposal is much weaker than the 1996 version, it has nevertheless failed to find strong support in Congress. Senator Robert C. Byrd of West Virginia called it "an offensive slap at Congress," asserting that the legislation would enable the president to intimidate individual members of Congress by targeting the projects of his political opponents. He also complained that the line-item veto as proposed would take away Congress' constitutional "power of the purse" and give it to the Executive branch.

    On June 8, 2006, Viet D. Dinh, Professor of Law at Georgetown University Law Center, and Nathan A. Sales, John M. Olin Fellow at Georgetown University Law Center testified by written statement before the House Committee on the Budget on the constitutional issues in connection with the proposed legislation.[18] Dinh and Sales argued that the Legislative Line Item Veto Act of 2006 satisfies the Constitution's Bicameralism and Presentment Clause, and therefore avoids the constitutional issues raised in the 1996 Act struck down by the Supreme Court. They also stated that the proposed Act is consistent with the basic principle that grants Congress broad discretion to establish procedures to govern its internal operations.

    The proposed Act was approved by the House Budget Committee on June 14, 2006 by a vote of 24-9. [19] It was approved in the full House on June 22. A similar bill was submitted in the Senate, but failed to win approval. The Legislative Line Item Veto Act has therefore not become law.



    Parent
    actually (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue May 25, 2010 at 04:59:52 PM EST
    it was a Clinton idea

    Parent
    odd you left this out (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue May 25, 2010 at 05:05:08 PM EST
    Bill Clinton echoed the request in his State of the Union address in 1995.

    The president was briefly granted this power by the Line Item Veto Act of 1996, passed by Congress to control "pork barrel spending" that favors a particular region rather than the nation as a whole.



    Parent
    so what you're saying is (none / 0) (#139)
    by CST on Tue May 25, 2010 at 05:08:53 PM EST
    it's constitutional but congress didn't like it

    I swear I just saw that somewhere...

    How much do you want to bet that "Senator John McCain, and Republican Whip Senator Mitch McConnell" vote against this now?

    As for the GWB and Obama comparisons... meh.  Should we also ignore immigration reform because Georgie tried it first?  Either you like the bill or you don't, the person who's "idea it was first" is kind of irrelevant.

    Parent

    the first president (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue May 25, 2010 at 05:11:58 PM EST
    I remember making a big deal out of it was Clinton.

    Parent
    Your own quote line above (none / 0) (#145)
    by Cream City on Tue May 25, 2010 at 05:27:16 PM EST
    says that Clinton "echoed" it -- meaning, someone else came up with it first, correct?

    Parent
    again (none / 0) (#150)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue May 25, 2010 at 05:35:42 PM EST
    the first president I remember making a big deal out of it was Clinton.


    Parent
    Actually (none / 0) (#152)
    by jbindc on Tue May 25, 2010 at 05:46:16 PM EST
    Thomas Jefferson through Nixon had a line item veto, and every president since then has wanted one, so no, it wasn't Clinton's idea.

    Parent
    Again, read what you post (none / 0) (#168)
    by Cream City on Tue May 25, 2010 at 09:29:31 PM EST
    as I'm not asking you to remember the '90s.

    I'm quoting your own post, the quote you put in it.  Can you address the verb in it?

    Parent

    Clinton (none / 0) (#155)
    by jbindc on Tue May 25, 2010 at 05:49:54 PM EST
    Echoed Reagan's 1986 SOTU, where he said, "Tonight I ask you to give me what forty-three governors have: Give me a line-item veto this year. Give me the authority to veto waste, and I'll take the responsibility, I'll make the cuts, I'll take the heat."

    Parent
    Um, no (none / 0) (#151)
    by jbindc on Tue May 25, 2010 at 05:40:34 PM EST
    Bush wanted a bill like this passed.  Had it passed, then that's when a challenge would be able to come forward.  Any challenge would have been on the constitutionalitu, so no one can say if the 2006 bill was constitutional or not.

    Parent
    of course the other way to look at it (none / 0) (#99)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue May 25, 2010 at 03:47:15 PM EST
    is it could be a very good tool in eliminating pork:


    Today, the President sent to Congress the Reduce Unnecessary Spending Act of 2010 to establish a new, expedited tool to reduce unnecessary or wasteful spending. Under this new expedited procedure, the President would submit a package of rescissions shortly after a spending bill is passed. Congress is then required to consider these recommendations as a package, without amendment, and with a guaranteed up-or-down vote within a specified timeframe.

    The Reduce Unnecessary Spending Act will empower the President and the Congress to eliminate unnecessary spending while discouraging waste in the first place. This is critically important both because we should never tolerate taxpayer dollars going to programs that are duplicative or ineffective and because, especially in the current fiscal environment, we cannot afford this waste.



    Parent
    I'm not terribly troubled by "pork" (5.00 / 2) (#129)
    by sj on Tue May 25, 2010 at 04:55:06 PM EST
    There ARE exceptions, of course, like the bridge to nowhere.  And like the corporate pork you're describing that is intended to circumvent regulation and accountability.

    But one man's "pork" is often another man's "livelihood".  So, as a concept, pork doesn't bother me.

    I'm more troubled by the fact that Alan Grayson's The War is Making You Poor Act is unlikely to get much traction.  

    Parent

    a billion here (none / 0) (#133)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue May 25, 2010 at 05:01:42 PM EST
    a billion there.
    pretty soon you are talking about real money.

    this:

     

    I'm not terribly troubled by "pork"

    is an incredible statement.

    Parent

    Firstly, (none / 0) (#173)
    by sj on Tue May 25, 2010 at 11:35:49 PM EST
    most pork allocations are not in the billions.  

    Secondly, if you want to make a dent in those billions, take a look at military spending.  And I'm not talking on money spent to adequately outfit the troops -- which I don't think we're doing, by the way.

    I repeat.  I'm not terribly troubled by pork as a concept.  It has been used to build jobs and infrastructure in places that needed them.  Not all pork is equal.  Some of it is pure fat, while some is good bacon.

    Parent

    you know (none / 0) (#180)
    by CST on Wed May 26, 2010 at 11:16:51 AM EST
    I actually kind of agree with this.

    Of all battles to pick, congressional pork is pretty low on my personal list.

    That being said, I do feel like the existince of pork is one of the things that turns otherwise reasonable people into libertarians.  It breeds distrust in government spending in general.

    So on a personal level it doesn't really bother me.  But on a political level it makes it really hard to argue for the importance of government spending.

    Parent

    for example (none / 0) (#100)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue May 25, 2010 at 03:48:36 PM EST
    Indeed, the expedited rescission authority in the Reduce Unnecessary Spending Act would be particularly effective in reining in programs that are heavily earmarked or not merit-based as well as those that are plainly wasteful and duplicative. For instance:

        * The State Assistance Grants for Water Infrastructure at the Environmental Protection Agency currently consists of $157 million in non-merit-based, earmarked funding instead of being allocated through the regular formula allocation process.

        * The Department of Transportation was given $293 million for earmarked surface transportation projects that also circumvent formula grant funding.

        * The Department of Commerce was allocated $20 million and the USDA was given $5 million to fund public broadcasting even though this activity is ably supported through the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.

        * The Department of Housing and Urban Development was allocated $17 million for the Brownfields Economic Development Initiative, a worthy goal that duplicates the function of the CDBG program.



    Parent
    Yes, of course I am overreacting, as (5.00 / 2) (#101)
    by Anne on Tue May 25, 2010 at 03:57:12 PM EST
    I always do.  I mean, just because we have a brand-spanking new commission top-loaded with likely votes for cutting entitlement programs for those who depend on them - a commission that is meeting in secret, providing no transparency or public oversight, will not report out until after the election, and which Congress will have no ability to hold hearings on, doesn't mean that a modified line-item veto would ever, ever be used in this way, does it?

    One person's "unnecessary spending" is another person's sole source of income.

    But you go on looking at everything with blinders on, and don't consider the totality of what is going on; your blood pressure is probably way, way lower than mine.

    Parent

    cutting port (none / 0) (#102)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue May 25, 2010 at 04:02:11 PM EST
    and the ability to do it is pretty much the holy grail of presidents.  so I can see why you would not want Obama to get it.

    personally if the bridge to nowhere is someones only source of income they are up sh!t creek as far as I am concerned.


    Parent

    Except (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by jbindc on Tue May 25, 2010 at 04:09:43 PM EST
    Line item vetos were struck down as unconstitutional by the SC, so it would have to be a fine and convoluted legal highwire act they'd have to walk.

    And just think of the pork President Romney and a Republican Congress could eliminate!  Food stamps!  Head Start!  The Department of Education!

    Parent

    alarmist BS (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue May 25, 2010 at 04:11:57 PM EST
    sorry.

    Parent
    jsut so I have this straight (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue May 25, 2010 at 04:13:06 PM EST
    the TWO of you are defending this and think it should continue?

        Indeed, the expedited rescission authority in the Reduce Unnecessary Spending Act would be particularly effective in reining in programs that are heavily earmarked or not merit-based as well as those that are plainly wasteful and duplicative. For instance:

            * The State Assistance Grants for Water Infrastructure at the Environmental Protection Agency currently consists of $157 million in non-merit-based, earmarked funding instead of being allocated through the regular formula allocation process.

            * The Department of Transportation was given $293 million for earmarked surface transportation projects that also circumvent formula grant funding.

            * The Department of Commerce was allocated $20 million and the USDA was given $5 million to fund public broadcasting even though this activity is ably supported through the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.

            * The Department of Housing and Urban Development was allocated $17 million for the Brownfields Economic Development Initiative, a worthy goal that duplicates the function of the CDBG program.



    Parent
    I'm not defending anything (none / 0) (#112)
    by jbindc on Tue May 25, 2010 at 04:20:29 PM EST
    I'm saying they tried this in 1996 and it was struck down as unconstitutional, so it will be very hard to write something doing the same thing that will pass constitutional muster.

    I also just made the point that what you described as getting cut might be good, but the same law would be in effect when a Republican gets in with a Republican Congress (and despite the rhetoric, it will happen again and sooner than you'd like)

    Parent

    no they didn't (none / 0) (#113)
    by CST on Tue May 25, 2010 at 04:25:13 PM EST
    the part that you are missing here is congress has to vote on it.

    That keeps the balance of power in place, and is therefore not unconstitutional.  That's the key difference.

    And of course when Republicans come in they will cut funding.  That's why you don't elect Republicans.  Elections have consequences.  They already do this.

    Parent

    What you seem to be missing (none / 0) (#118)
    by jbindc on Tue May 25, 2010 at 04:33:42 PM EST
    From the reports generated about this proposal, the president would go through legislation (that's been passed, presumably) and unilaterally make cuts, of which
    Congress would then vote (again).  The president does not have the power to decide spending, which is why, depending on how the bill is written, is not nearly and simple ad you make it out to be.

    And don't think if this bill passes, there won't be challenges.  

    Parent

    sure he does (none / 0) (#120)
    by CST on Tue May 25, 2010 at 04:38:04 PM EST
    it's called the veto.

    The president can veto the entire bill.  That is "deciding spending".

    The problem with the line item veto is that it would veto part of the bill, not all of it, which would then not be voted on by congress.  Congress votes for the whole package but only gets part of it.  This time, congress votes on the package, the president decides they don't like aspects of it, and sends that piece of it back to congress to vote on.  But congress still gets a say in whether or not the whole package is passed.

    Parent

    cutting PORK (none / 0) (#103)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue May 25, 2010 at 04:02:35 PM EST
    rather

    Parent
    not a veto (none / 0) (#111)
    by CST on Tue May 25, 2010 at 04:18:59 PM EST
    as it requires a vote by congress.

    Also, since it is a spending item, there is no point to a filibuster because it's clearly budget germane and reconciliation applies.

    Parent

    yes (none / 0) (#114)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue May 25, 2010 at 04:25:55 PM EST
     
    the President would submit a package of rescissions shortly after a spending bill is passed. Congress is then required to consider these recommendations as a package, without amendment, and with a guaranteed up-or-down vote within a specified timeframe.

    doesnt sound all that armageddonish to me.

    Parent

    Not that simple (none / 0) (#115)
    by jbindc on Tue May 25, 2010 at 04:27:38 PM EST
    Dems are being cautious about this - not eager.  From WaPo article from Shaleigh Murray:

    By Shailagh Murray
    Democrats in Congress are not exactly rushing to approve President Obama's request for more control over federal spending.

    The Reduce Unnecessary Spending Act of 2010, a twist on the line-item veto, would give Obama and future presidents greater leeway in seeking changes to appropriations bills. Under the proposal, unveiled Monday by the White House, presidents would send recommended cuts to Congress within a specific time frame after a spending bill is signed, and the House and the Senate would approve or reject the changes by an up-or-down vote.

    Granting Obama's request could send a powerful message to skeptical voters that Democrats are serious about cutting the record-high deficit. But Congress takes its constitutional power of the purse very seriously. And so far, early reaction to the rescission proposal suggests that Obama could face
    quite a battle.



    Parent
    you're kidding (none / 0) (#116)
    by CST on Tue May 25, 2010 at 04:30:06 PM EST
    congress doesn't want their spending habits to be curbed???  Color me not surprised.

    I didn't say this would pass congress.  I just said it's not a veto.

    Parent

    The president (none / 0) (#119)
    by jbindc on Tue May 25, 2010 at 04:35:16 PM EST
    Does not get to dictate spending.  Period.

    Parent
    what's a (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by CST on Tue May 25, 2010 at 04:38:51 PM EST
    veto again?

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    I dunno (none / 0) (#137)
    by jbindc on Tue May 25, 2010 at 05:04:49 PM EST
    Talk to Justice Stevens about  his majority opinion in Clinton v. The City of New York, where the SC struck down a line item veto and where this was decided:

    In a majority opinion written by Justice John Paul Stevens, the Court ruled that because the Act allowed the President to unilaterally amend or repeal parts of duly enacted statutes by using line-item cancellations, it violated the Presentment Clause of the Constitution,[3] which outlines a specific practice for enacting a statute. The Court construed the silence of the Constitution on the subject of such unilateral Presidential action as equivalent to "an express prohibition", agreeing with historical material that supported the conclusion that statutes may only be enacted "in accord with a single, finely wrought and exhaustively considered, procedure", and that a bill must be approved or rejected by the President in its entirety.

    Wiki

    Gee, I must be confused by that whole "bill must be approved or rejected by the President in it's entirety" thingy.


    Parent

    so you are all for (5.00 / 1) (#122)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue May 25, 2010 at 04:41:12 PM EST
    unfettered congressional pork.
    all you can eat.  good to know.


    Parent
    Logic: Epic FAIL (none / 0) (#132)
    by jbindc on Tue May 25, 2010 at 05:00:23 PM EST
    what is your alternative (none / 0) (#136)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue May 25, 2010 at 05:03:34 PM EST
    oh logical one?

    Parent
    Well (none / 0) (#141)
    by jbindc on Tue May 25, 2010 at 05:11:56 PM EST
    If you fix your reading glasses, all I said was that this might be a tough sell.  Notice I didn't say I disagreed with the principle - I was talking process and you were talking substance, so for you to make the leap of my saying "this might be a stretch to get this kind of bill through" to "I hate this bill", well, that's a leap of logic greater than jumping the Grand Canyon.

     

    Parent

    Don't forgot... (none / 0) (#3)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue May 25, 2010 at 12:53:32 PM EST
    ...Korea, poor LiLo have to wear an ankle bracelet and the saga of the Dutchess of York.

    Plus this little item for our resident Michigan booster.

    According to AnnArbor.com, the university has admitted "it exceeded NCAA limits on practice time and staff size; that it failed to properly monitor its football program; that former graduate assistant coach Alex Herron lied to NCAA investigators; and that head coach Rich Rodriguez failed to adequately monitor the duties of his staff."

    How's that Coach Rod hire working out for you Maize and Blue fans?  

    I saw the Fergie ordeal last night (none / 0) (#5)
    by Militarytracy on Tue May 25, 2010 at 12:56:06 PM EST
    I know she's only human, but apparently everything has a price for her :)

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    I think her being a spokesperson... (none / 0) (#22)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue May 25, 2010 at 01:19:46 PM EST
    ...for whateve diet plan it was kind of gave that away.  Very unseemly for royalty to be going something that crass.

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    I thought that her diet spokesperson (none / 0) (#33)
    by Militarytracy on Tue May 25, 2010 at 01:35:47 PM EST
    gig sort of humanized her.  Now she's really really super human.  When she did that cool little mouth pop, wave of her hands, and the opening of doors....whew...super human :)

    Parent
    From a purely American... (none / 0) (#50)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue May 25, 2010 at 01:58:28 PM EST
    ...perspective that may be true.  But then, we're all just a bunch of wankers when it comes to the Royals.

    Parent
    Not as unseemly.. (none / 0) (#85)
    by kdog on Tue May 25, 2010 at 03:08:00 PM EST
    as calling yourself royalty.

    King James excluded of course...come to NY your majesty!

    Parent

    Pleading already, eh? (none / 0) (#94)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue May 25, 2010 at 03:26:04 PM EST
    Or is it more wishful thinking?  Chicago might look pretty sweet to BronBron if they lure Phil Jackson back there...

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    Chicago's roster... (none / 0) (#96)
    by kdog on Tue May 25, 2010 at 03:33:33 PM EST
    looks appealing enough...I'm thinking Chicago or Cleveland...why risk getting mushed by the Dolan Anti-Midas touch?

    Our only hope is he that he pines for the brightest lights.

    Parent

    Now, don't get greedy! (none / 0) (#160)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue May 25, 2010 at 06:16:38 PM EST
    You're already getting a Super Bowl, much to the horror of the media and fat cats who are aghast of the idea of maybe, possibly having to endure cold weather.  

    Parent
    Wasn't there a "sheikscam" of another (none / 0) (#161)
    by oculus on Tue May 25, 2010 at 06:44:04 PM EST
    Royal or former Royal a few years ago.  Doesn't Fergie keep up?

    Parent
    A U of M student spotted my "M" logo (none / 0) (#7)
    by oculus on Tue May 25, 2010 at 01:02:11 PM EST
    during elevator ride in NY.  He has high expectations for Rodriguez' team this coming season. But, he sd. if that doesn't happen he will kill the coach himself.  I found this a bit alarming, espec. since the speaker appeared to be of ME descent.  What if the elevator is bugged?  <semi snk.>

    Parent
    You wear that... (none / 0) (#64)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue May 25, 2010 at 02:17:13 PM EST
    ...out in public where people can see?  

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    I do and you would be surprised how (none / 0) (#158)
    by oculus on Tue May 25, 2010 at 06:12:58 PM EST
    many Michigan alumni are roaming the globe.  

    Parent
    And USC replaces... (none / 0) (#179)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed May 26, 2010 at 08:30:08 AM EST
    ...Carroll with another coach of questionable integrity.  I shan't shed any tears if the quasi-professional Los Angeles Trojans get smacked upside the head by the NCAA.  

    Parent
    I was wondering... (none / 0) (#63)
    by kdog on Tue May 25, 2010 at 02:15:42 PM EST
    if the new movement on DADT was in response to a potential war with N. Korea, or old stand-by Iran.  "We'll take anybody!"

    Or just positive pr for the admin. to distract from the death of the Gulf.

    Parent

    Well, (none / 0) (#66)
    by jbindc on Tue May 25, 2010 at 02:24:53 PM EST
    We don't want icky gay people, but we take felons.  Keep your priorities straight, man! (pun intended)

    Parent
    We can't have Dudus... (none / 0) (#8)
    by kdog on Tue May 25, 2010 at 01:02:12 PM EST
    providing food, education, and medical care to poor Jamaicans...people might start to expect that sorta service for their tax dollar from their government...talk about a bad precedent.

    That stuff is only for Northern Europeans and (to a lesser extent) Americans, financed by other people's natural resources and third world debt...get with the neo-colonialism people.

    Linked article says the gangs were (none / 0) (#10)
    by oculus on Tue May 25, 2010 at 01:04:04 PM EST
    founded on behalf of political parties to round up votes and each party has its own gang.  Kind of got out of hand.  

    Parent
    That's Jamaican politics... (none / 0) (#27)
    by kdog on Tue May 25, 2010 at 01:27:21 PM EST
    how its been done since they gained independence...or I should say quasi-independence...the colonialists just changed tactics.

    "At Coke's direction and under his protection, members of his criminal organization sell marijuana and crack cocaine in the New York area and elsewhere, and send the narcotics proceeds back to Coke and his co-conspirators," the DEA said.


    Parent
    Hit post to soon.... (none / 0) (#30)
    by kdog on Tue May 25, 2010 at 01:29:58 PM EST
    was gonna say I haven't patronized the Rastas down in Crooklyn for some time...but its good to know some of that money makes its way to Kingston for education and medical care...unlike DEA money, which only buys misery.

    Parent
    See Greenwald today re Obama (none / 0) (#18)
    by oculus on Tue May 25, 2010 at 01:16:18 PM EST
    DOJ prosecuting federal whistleblowers.  As opposed to candidate Obama's statements re this subject.  

    Dueling Obamas (5.00 / 2) (#71)
    by Anne on Tue May 25, 2010 at 02:39:14 PM EST
    Cannot take anything he says at even a smidgen of face value; soon as you do, he will back off or outright contradict himself.

    Far worse than I ever expected things to be, on so many levels, and on so many issues.

    From Glenn's post:

    Most of what our Government does of any real significance happens in the dark.  Whistleblowers are one of the very few avenues we have left for learning about any of that.  And politicians eager to preserve their own power and ability to operate in secret -- such as Barack Obama -- see whistleblowers as their Top Enemy.

    Hence, we have a series of aggressive prosecutions from the Obama administration of Bush era exposures of abuse and illegality -- acts that flagrantly violate Obama's Look Forward, Not Backward decree used to protect high-level Bush administration criminals.  As John Cole has suggested, perhaps if these whistleblowers had tortured some people and illegally eavesdropped on others, they would receive the immunity that Obama has so magnanimously and selectively granted.  Instead, they merely exposed secret government corruption and illegality to the world, and thus must be punished.

    While it's true that leaks can be both damaging and illegal, these prosecutions are occurring without any showing whatsoever of harm to national security, and with ample evidence that they were undertaken to expose high-level wrongdoing.  Some secrets are legitimate, but the balance has swung so far in the direction of excess secrecy that it's extraordinary to watch the Obama administration move the anti-whistleblower persecution far beyond what the Bush administration did.

    Obama's affinity for authoritarianism is troubling, to say the least.

    Parent

    hmmmm (none / 0) (#26)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue May 25, 2010 at 01:25:52 PM EST
    U.S. Is Said to Expand Secret Actions in Mideast

    WASHINGTON -- The top American commander in the Middle East has ordered a broad expansion of clandestine military activity in an effort to disrupt militant groups or counter threats in Iran, Saudi Arabia, Somalia and other countries in the region, according to defense officials and military documents.


    Breathing new life into the old CIA (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by Militarytracy on Tue May 25, 2010 at 01:41:46 PM EST
    way of things.  Not what I'd call a comforting thought.

    Parent
    Me thinks... (none / 0) (#53)
    by kdog on Tue May 25, 2010 at 01:59:23 PM EST
    whoever signed the allocation of funds could be prosecuted for funding terror.  No terror org list is complete without the C.I. F*ckin' A. up near the top.

    Parent
    Or did the orders... (none / 0) (#54)
    by kdog on Tue May 25, 2010 at 02:00:07 PM EST
    come from BP or Exxon???

    Parent
    No oversight always leads to (none / 0) (#62)
    by Militarytracy on Tue May 25, 2010 at 02:14:56 PM EST
    complete and total corruption.  They just go BAM (By Any Means).  And because they will be seeking to do things on the cheap now, BAM is even more justified but nobody will know what was justified or who, when, where.  What is the oversight I wonder?

    Parent
    Oversight... (none / 0) (#65)
    by kdog on Tue May 25, 2010 at 02:18:33 PM EST
    I guess technically thats our job...and boy have we failed.  

    Parent
    And, if they dont watch it (none / 0) (#80)
    by jondee on Tue May 25, 2010 at 02:54:51 PM EST
    they're going wind up with some more Phillip Agees' on their hands.

    Parent
    gee (none / 0) (#90)
    by CST on Tue May 25, 2010 at 03:15:46 PM EST
    for some reason "clandestine military activity" does not give me a warm and fuzzy safe feeling.

    I'm sure this will help win the battle for hearts and minds.

    Why do I get the feeling like 20 years down the road this is going to cause some serious problems for us.

    The CIA - starting tommorow's wars, one secret mission at a time.

    Parent

    Will Gulf Oil Spill be Obama's Katrina (none / 0) (#47)
    by Saul on Tue May 25, 2010 at 01:56:14 PM EST
    Can't understand why he is just not putting this incident as #1 Priority.

    Why couldn't he utilize the Nat Guard or Navy to start manual clean up of this mess and send the bill to BP.

    I see no preemptive strike by Obama against this major catastrophe that will probably go down as the biggest oil spill ever.

    All offshore drilling that is in control by Sec Of Interior or Energy Dept should stop immediately until we can be assured that no other drilling rig will do this again.

    hmmmm (none / 0) (#78)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue May 25, 2010 at 02:53:29 PM EST
    thought it was interesting (none / 0) (#79)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue May 25, 2010 at 02:54:33 PM EST
    that the number among men was 2 points higher than among women.

    that would not be what I would expect from my experience.

    Parent

    If they actually (none / 0) (#88)
    by jondee on Tue May 25, 2010 at 03:14:15 PM EST
    used the word "relations", most Americans probably thought it was refering to cousins and in-laws..

    Parent
    hopefully not (none / 0) (#89)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue May 25, 2010 at 03:15:06 PM EST
    relations with cousins and in-laws

    Parent
    That would be the Palin crowd (none / 0) (#91)
    by jondee on Tue May 25, 2010 at 03:16:18 PM EST
    wanna buy (none / 0) (#93)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue May 25, 2010 at 03:21:15 PM EST
    Arizona Marine accused (none / 0) (#135)
    by MyLeftMind on Tue May 25, 2010 at 05:03:28 PM EST
    of stealing hundreds of thousands of dollars

    "He spent six months in Iraq as part of the reconstruction effort. He was in charge of contracting. He was in charge of cash. Clean crisp $100 bills and when he returned he had crisp clean $100 bills and he deposited over $400,000 of bills in 91 separate transactions in banks in Arizona."

    You really have to wonder why the military is giving soldiers cash to pay Iraqis. What a recipe for corruption. Oh wait, we like our countries with puppet governments to be corrupt...


    not that complicated (none / 0) (#140)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue May 25, 2010 at 05:10:36 PM EST
    "[The US military] threw money at [the sheiks]," says Col. David Hsu, who heads a team advising Iraq's armed forces in Salahaddin, Saddam's home province. He shows recent digital photographs he captured of smiling sheikhs holding bundles of cash as they posed with US military officers. "You are basically paying civilians to turn in terrorists. Money was an expedient way to try to get results."

    US military officers on the ground say there is tremendous pressure from high above to replicate the successes of the so-called "awakening" against Al Qaeda in the western Anbar Province. The drive reached its apex in the run-up to the September testimonies to Congress by the top US military commander and diplomat in Iraq, US officers say.

    "In order to turn the intent of [Lt.] Gen. [Raymond] Odierno for reconciliation into action, the coalition forces on the ground basically started recruiting leaders to try to turn other civilians against the insurgents," says Colonel Hsu, a native of Hawaii. General Odierno is the No. 2 commander of US forces in Iraq.

    And the push seems to have paid off. Both the number of explosions and US military fatalities in October dropped to almost half their September levels in the Multinational Division-North area, which comprises of Diyala, Salahaddin, Tamim (Kirkuk), and Ninevah Provinces, according to military figures.

    Parent

    Unbelievable... (none / 0) (#144)
    by kdog on Tue May 25, 2010 at 05:26:58 PM EST
    how dumb do you have to be to try and put it in the bank?  Truly unbelievable.

    The fact unfathomable amounts of money gone missin' Iraq...well that's not news.  He just forgot to have a friend in Congress.

    Parent

    "To Kill a Mockingbird": 50th (none / 0) (#164)
    by oculus on Tue May 25, 2010 at 06:59:19 PM EST
    birthday.  Always wondered why this book wasn't required reading in high school.  Now I know.  It hadn't yet been published!

    If it had been written... (none / 0) (#181)
    by kdog on Wed May 26, 2010 at 01:11:35 PM EST
    think it mighta steered toward defense?

    Required for me, and one of the requireds I actually read and enjoyed.  

    Parent

    On job scene? I didn't aspire (none / 0) (#182)
    by oculus on Wed May 26, 2010 at 05:57:37 PM EST
    to be an attorney when I was growing up, didn't really know any lawyers when I decided to go to law school, didn't plan to be a prosecutor.  But a job is a job.

    Parent