home

More Inaccurate Reporting on Joran Van der Sloot's Lawyers

By Jeralyn, Section Crime in the News
Posted on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 07:45:00 AM EST
Tags: Joran Van der Sloot (all tags)
Share This: Digg! StumbleUpon del.icio.us reddit reddit

Sunday morning, Peruvian newspapers reported (Spanish here)that Joran Van der Sloot now has three lawyers, two of whom are not Peruvian, and all three will be going to Peru on Friday. (Another article here, translation here.)The articles named New York attorney Joe Tacopina as one of the lawyers. Joe successfully represented Joran in the Holloway's wrongful death lawsuit, getting it tossed on jurisidictional grounds. I didn't write it up yesterday because I thought it was false so why repeat it?

Now I see a CBS affiliate in Alabama has picked up story. Too bad they couldn't bother to pick up the phone. It's false.

Joe is not going to Peru this Friday. Nor does he have plans to go to Peru any time soon. How do I know? I asked him yesterday and he told me.

It doesn't mean this can't change, but it's not the case now. (If it changes, I'll be glad to confirm it. I think that would be great news for Joran.) How do these rumors get started? This is the second time the MSM (here and abroad) has falsely reported Joe Tacopina is going to Peru as part of Joran's defense team.

If the Peruvian papers are misreporting facts about Joran's lawyers, what else are they misreporting about the case? And just how much of the U.S. reporting on Joran Van der Sloot is an unverified regurgitation of what appears in the Peruvian (or Dutch)press? Does the U.S. media do this on other foreign topics as well? What a disturbing thought.

< Monday Night News and Open Thread | World Cup: Netherlands v. Uruguay >

  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


    • Display: Sort:
    More Inaccurate Reporting on Joran Van der Sloot's Lawyers | 78 comments (78 topical)

    Readers Must Login or Create an Account to Comment

    I have not accused anyone (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 03:42:42 PM EST
    of being corrupt. I have concerns about the fairness of the system and the media in Peru and I am trying to keep things transparent. I object to the one-sided leaks from law enforcement (which is no different than what happens in the U.S.) and the continuous grant of media time to the victims' families(particularly here)stating an accused is guilty. Trials should take place in courtrooms, not living rooms. It's abated the past few weeks, but undoubtedly will keep occurring when there's news in the case.

    As to Peruvian law, I have said it has made great strides in the past few years. They have a new criminal procedure code that is much fairer to the accused. Their constitution contains provisions protecting the rights of the accused. I've published all relevant statutes and constitutional provisions a few times, with links, including dates statutes were amended.

    The factual reporting here is not one-sided. Links are always provided, including to the Court's press releases which are probably the best source of information. My take on those facts is opinionated and in favor of the defense, no question. But the facts are the facts, and my intent is to keep the process transparent, not to complain about corruption.

    If Peruvian officials violated Joran's rights in disregard of its own laws, you'll read about it here. If it acts in conformance with those laws, but the laws in my opinion are unjust, you'll read about that too -- in opinion form.

    And when the media gets it wrong, you'll also read about it here.

    This is about fairness to the accused. If you cannot trust in the integrity of the investigative and trial process, you cannot trust in the credibility of any verdict that results in it.

    hmmm.... (none / 0) (#1)
    by railroaded on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 04:03:26 AM EST
    ...My worst fears are materialising.

    I've been warned so will not attempt to vist this one.

    dreaded fears (none / 0) (#2)
    by railroaded on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 04:28:30 AM EST


    Parent
    stories (none / 0) (#3)
    by pac on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 07:07:00 AM EST
    Jeralyn,

    When initially coming here I had never been so physically tired in life!  All of the yak was in a half sleep and half wake state but yet facinated and unable to cry uncle.

    A little while ago I soaked in some Dead Sea salts and by the time I was out duh?  finally think I get some of it or enough resolved in my mind.

    In a round about way you have successfully made points that are now clear, in more ways that one.

    Maybe later I can wrap my brain around more. For now I feel like curiosity and the cat in some kind of way.

    No doubt there will be more interesting stories than what I anticipated previously.

    Please, please Tacopina go or advise from here (none / 0) (#4)
    by Untold Story on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 08:24:53 AM EST
    Joran needs help - the political climate alone does not allow one defense attorney to fight the media machinery in place and the political forces.

    Peru is trying to make it look to the world (watching) that Joran is being treated fairly - which obviously he isn't as no story out of there seems credible.

    Pac - be happy.  Start a journal for yourself, just for you, and each day write down what made you happy that day - what you have to be thankful for - can be very simple things!

    That (none / 0) (#6)
    by jbindc on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 01:16:47 PM EST
    Peru is trying to make it look to the world (watching) that Joran is being treated fairly - which obviously he isn't as no story out of there seems credible.

    is a pretty broad statement.  Do you have any evidence to back this up?

    Parent

    Why not start with the confession (none / 0) (#12)
    by Untold Story on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 01:52:39 PM EST
    Why was his own attorney not in attendance? Who exactly was in attendance, at whose request, and why was his own appointed attorney not called in or asked to remain as interrogation were continuing?

    Is it considered normal routine to have a bowl or bucket of water in front of a suspect?

    Why are we given select pieces of videos?  Either they are permitted to be released or are not - should not be selective.

    Is it normal/routine procedure to parade a suspect in front of an angry crowd?  Routine to announce when a high profile prisoner is being moved from one location to another?

    Routine for tv cameras to video instead a jail, particularly inside of a suspect's cell and video their personal belongings?

    Usual for a family member to pronouce sentence before even an investigation has begun?

    Usual for a family member to put forth evidence that doesn't exist?

    Routine for causes of death to vary from credible police sources?

    Usual for a family to report a kidnapping, if they did, yet never visited the location she was supposed to have last been?  Look for her car in the location she said she would be?  Phone the location it was understood she would be?  Or, in their absence of doing so, why didn't the police?

    Death photo identified by a person who knew the victim from three meetings inside a darkened casino, someone from another country just in Lima to participate in a poker tournament?  And, yes, have him identify the body from a death photo while at the same time it is stated the body was so badly decomposed idenification by her own family was close to impossible?

    Could go on and on . . .

    imo

    Parent

    Right to remain silent (5.00 / 2) (#25)
    by waldenpond on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 02:16:07 PM EST
    The one attorney left thinking he was going to do as instructed and remain silent.  He really, really should have kept his mouth shut and has to take personal responsibility for not.  VDS representation is dealing with the attorney present at the confession.

    If there was water present, VDS didn't interpret it as enough of a threat to include in his habeas.

    All of the items you are questioning as routine, are routine.  Perp walks are creepy, but normal.  VDS has chosen to answer questions... they have open prisons, are you saying VDS should be denied to speak if he chooses?

    It is not unreasonable to me that a statment of death regarding multiple fatal injuries be subject to conflicting reports.

    YES! Families make statements all of the time and yes, they even get to be wrong.  It is up to a defense attorney, a jury or in the case of Peru to evaluate statements. That's how it works.

    I don't see how the state of decomposition of the body effects VDS legal representation.

    Parent

    I always respect your posts (none / 0) (#32)
    by Untold Story on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 02:38:03 PM EST
    His one and only attorney left thinking interrogations were over for the day and wasn't advised differently.  Joran fully understood his right to remain silent and had kept silent for approx. a week.

    Another attorney takes over - under what conditions - by whose appointment can another attorney cut in and replace a defendant's attorney?

    Which then leads me to wonder, under what conditions did Joran suddenly speak?  Why did he speak with a strange attorney present?  What was the bowl of water for?  Strange.

    He has one attorney, one whose life has been threatened, one whose family has to remain in hiding - is he going to do the best job for Joran under these circumstances?  Or, can he possibly do even a good job under these circumstances?

    There is no jury - there are three judges and I am interested in knowing if they are appointed for a term, for life, voted in by the people???

    Don't know enough about these judges to make a call as to whether they can be fair under the present insatiable thrist for blood protrayed by the angry crowds, bias press, and selective videos to show only guilt to further inflame the public.

    Do you think JVdS could get a fair trial in the US?

     

    Parent

    Untold, the best I can do for now..... (none / 0) (#62)
    by railroaded on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 04:47:08 PM EST
    ...."Except for the justices of the peace, all other judges, including the members of the Supreme Court, are appointed and removed,according to the Peruvian Constitution, by the National Council of the Judiciary (Consejo Nacional de la Magistratura).Google translation here.

    Parent
    Great job! (none / 0) (#64)
    by Untold Story on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 05:18:30 PM EST
    But heavens seems like more bad news!

     

    Parent

    Aloha Waldenpond (none / 0) (#40)
    by AlohaMade on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 03:06:25 PM EST
    You have hit the nail on the head, Everything you just said, is what I have been trying to convey for sometime. I am just not as good with the writing...LOL. We need to understand, that it was Joran who turned himself in to begin with. He has never had a problem admitting, that he commited the crime of murder, and I do agree with the rest, that the media has sensationalized his reasons for commiting the murder. And as far as his rights being upheld poses a bit of a problem, when Joran keeps spinning his web of stories. If you remember he started claiming his being treated unfairly during his interview w/ de Telegraph. He had already been incarcerated for weeks.IMO I don't feel he was jailed due to his conffession, he was jailed due to the crime. Being a mother of three (one lives in Germany for 10years) I would scream from the highest mountian for a conviction if something like this happened to one of my babies. We can not critisize what the parents say to the media, when their heart has been ripped out. If Joran has a chance to be trated fairly, then he needs to listen to his lawyers, and clam-up, for his best interest!
    Mahalo Nui Loa!
    all posts are IMO/IOW

    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#15)
    by jbindc on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 01:56:59 PM EST
    And you are seeing what people only a fraction of what the real evidence is - as with just about every other criminal case.  You never see all the real evidence until the trial starts.

    There are also people who are talking to the media and putting out there own theories and that stuff gets mixed in as actual "fact" (and I'm not just talking about the government either - you don't think those who support JVDS aren't putting stuff out there that is wrong too?)

    I give the family of a murder victim a huge pass on what they say, when they say, and what they believe at the time before they know their family member has been killed.  Maybe others don't.

    Parent

    Since I don't watch Nancy Grace, Greta (none / 0) (#23)
    by Untold Story on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 02:14:28 PM EST
    so forth - perhaps I am not informed?

    I will take what Jeralyn writes in her articles as she doesn't voice opinions from thin air, provides facts, links, and does loads of research.

    What an odd thought - someone on tv that supports JVdS?  Could you give a name, even one name?

    And since when is this an issue of support or non-support - it is all in an effort to be fair is what I thought, nothing personal, nothing emotional.  Please, justice only with fairness for the accused.

    Parent

    Aloha Untold Story (none / 0) (#43)
    by AlohaMade on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 03:12:29 PM EST
    Greta did! Apparently until after the interview he notified her that everything he said was false.
    However, like you, I come here first and read all the info that Jeralyn has posted. And even tho she is a Deffence Lawyer, her site in the most honest. Only after reading the information that she posts do I then further my research. I have no cable T.V. and I am glad!
    Mahalo Nui Loa!
    all posts are IMO/IOW

    Parent
    You are missing nothing (none / 0) (#47)
    by Untold Story on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 03:21:58 PM EST
    not having cable tv other than the monthly bills!

    Parent
    A Pass- jbindc ? (none / 0) (#83)
    by kasey9 on Wed Jul 07, 2010 at 06:39:41 PM EST
    "I give the family of a murder victim a huge pass on what they say, when they say, and what they believe at the time before they know their family member has been killed".  

    Victims and Victims family memebrs do not have the right toi slander, defame any one...regardless of being suspect, wanted for questioning etc.  Evidence is evidence, no one has the right to a free pass on what they say....Didn't yuou ever hear of Defamation?  

    Parent

    A Pass- jbindc ? (none / 0) (#84)
    by kasey9 on Wed Jul 07, 2010 at 06:40:26 PM EST
    "I give the family of a murder victim a huge pass on what they say, when they say, and what they believe at the time before they know their family member has been killed".  

    Victims and Victims family memebrs do not have the right toi slander, defame any one...regardless of being suspect, wanted for questioning etc.  Evidence is evidence, no one has the right to a free pass on what they say....Didn't yuou ever hear of Defamation?  

    Parent

    Wow. (none / 0) (#56)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 04:04:02 PM EST
    First of all, what TV channel or Web site would you like to have show all 72 hours of video so you could check up on it?

    It will presumably have to be turned over to the defense at time of trial, and it's for the defense to vet its authenticity and completeness, not you or me.

    And just to pick one thing out of many, the Flores family most certainly did go down to the casino when they began to worry about her, and there they were shown video surveillance of her with VDS.  It was when they discovered who she'd been hanging out with that they got really worried.

    Look it up.  They've given any number of interviews.

    Parent

    They went to the casino approximately (none / 0) (#59)
    by Untold Story on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 04:15:19 PM EST
    one hour after Gracia had the casino phone Joran at the hotel at approx 11:00 pm on June lst.  And there is supposed to be no connection whatsoever between Gracia's alert to the casino to phone Joran's room and the family's decision to visit the casino to look at video tapes (an hour later).

    Stephany reportedly by the family had a disagreement on Friday, May 28th and the family knew she did not return home only that she was entering into a poker tournament.

    Parent

    The family further stated (none / 0) (#60)
    by Untold Story on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 04:18:31 PM EST
    that when she did not return Saturday morning, or, perhaps, waited until Sunday morning, they did call police as they thought she was kidnapped.

    Shortly after midnight on Wednesday morning they made the decision to check out the casino.

    At least that is what I read in the beginning - perhaps this has all changed.

    Parent

    jbindc.....evidence? sure... (none / 0) (#29)
    by railroaded on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 02:24:19 PM EST
    Joran stated that he was questioned "under rude conditions" and that his `confession' was "coerced". Joran's mother stated to the press that joran was questioned "under barbaric conditions".

    Strong evidence in those statements.


    Parent

    I guess we disagree (none / 0) (#30)
    by jbindc on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 02:29:40 PM EST
    There is absolutely NO evidence in those statements.

    Poor thing - the police were "rude" to him.  Guess they should have held his hand and given him a massage. Maybe they should have thrown a parade in his honor? Because they were mean to him is not evidence of anything.

    Of COURSE he's going to say it was coerced.  It's what his lawyer has to do to get it thrown out.  Maybe it was - but just because JVDS SAID it was coerced, does not make it so.  Not evidence of anything.

    Hmm. His mother said he was questioned under barbaric conditions.  I'm sure she thinks so.  Was he really though?  Maybe - but because his mother thinks so is not evidence of anything, except that his mother is being a mother.

    Parent

    jbindc, the word rude..... (none / 0) (#31)
    by railroaded on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 02:35:59 PM EST
    ...translated to Spanish:

    grosero
    rudo
    tosco
    violento
    ordinario
    inculto
    repentino
    verde
    vigoroso

    I'll pick violento and transle to English:

    violent
    fierce
    severe
    sharp
    harsh
    wild
    raging
    savage
    rude
    abrupt
    forced
    boisterous
    ugly
    blustering
    towering

    I think barbaric would suffice.

    Parent

    So, (none / 0) (#38)
    by jbindc on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 02:59:56 PM EST
    You'll Sorry  - still not evidence of anything.

    Parent
    Rather (none / 0) (#39)
    by jbindc on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 03:00:19 PM EST
    You'll pick the word and decide what is meant by it?

    Parent
    Isn't that what the interpreters are doing? (none / 0) (#42)
    by Untold Story on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 03:10:22 PM EST


    Parent
    untold, precisely my point.... (none / 0) (#45)
    by railroaded on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 03:16:45 PM EST
    ...it's up to anyone's interpretation.

    Parent
    You still haven't explained (none / 0) (#52)
    by jbindc on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 03:33:06 PM EST
    How you think that's "evidence" of anything?  Someone confesses to a crime.  Then they want to retract it, so they say the police were "rude" (or "violent" or "mean" or whatever).  What would you expect him to say?  "Yes, I want to take back my confession, but the police were perfectly nice to me?"

    Again - maybe the confession was coerced, maybe it wasn't.  But just because JVDS said it was coerced doesn't mean a darn thing.  I mean, I could say you punched me in the nose because you don't like my comments.  It doesn't mean it's true, of course, but I could say it, right?

    Parent

    Well, I have this voodoo doll . . . hmmmm (none / 0) (#55)
    by Untold Story on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 03:53:38 PM EST
    Jest only, please.

    His own attorney not being present - not being called in, yet another attorney is called in -

    From the list of words - found the word savage rather interesting since, to me, it closely resembles barbaric.

    Parent

    Okay (none / 0) (#73)
    by Untold Story on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 06:28:12 PM EST
    So is there any really good reason for not starting with determining whether in fact the confession was or was not coerced?  Then go from there . . .

    Sounds reasonable to me.

    Parent

    You are great on translations - thanks! (none / 0) (#46)
    by Untold Story on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 03:17:53 PM EST
    Wonder what the Dutch translation 'rude' is into Spanish (or Peruvian) and then into English?

    Parent
    Untold...rude>dutch>spanish>english (none / 0) (#57)
    by railroaded on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 04:04:33 PM EST
    rude
    gross
    coarse
    crass
    uncouth
    boorish
    nasty
    scurrilous
    foul-mouthed
    lower
    unpleasant
    crude
    thick
    cheeky
    uncivilized
    hard
    primitive
    uneducated
    cheerful
    sudden
    powerful
    impolite
    discourteous
    uncivil
    unmannerly


    Parent
    Great, thanks so much (none / 0) (#61)
    by Untold Story on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 04:23:37 PM EST
    Of course, need I mention, uncivilized and primitive resemble most barbaric.

    Parent
    in all fairness.... (none / 0) (#65)
    by railroaded on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 05:23:07 PM EST
    .....there are usually two sides to an argument and some would constitute uncivilized and primitive as being a `massage' for Joran and axe wielding clowns stalking courthouse grounds with placards reading "guilty murderer chain perpetual" as Joran's honor parade.

    Parent
    I am going back to the mother's (none / 0) (#71)
    by Untold Story on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 06:24:45 PM EST
    interpretation - wasn't it barbaric?  And wasn't it the media's interpretation the word was 'rude'?

    Barbaric, primitive, uncivilized mean more or less the same to me - and imo could easily be put in a different category than rude.

    Parent

    interpretation (none / 0) (#79)
    by railroaded on Wed Jul 07, 2010 at 02:45:00 AM EST
    The media's interpretation of Jorans phone call to his mother was that Joran was interrogated under "rude conditions".

    The next day the media's interpretation of the mother's statement in relation to that phone call was that Joran was interrogated under "barbaric conditions".

    One phone call, two varying interpretations.

    Parent

    Just explain one item (none / 0) (#34)
    by Untold Story on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 02:45:56 PM EST
    Why was his own attorney not informed that interrogations were to continue?

    Parent
    Untold, unfortunately for Joran ..... (none / 0) (#36)
    by railroaded on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 02:52:28 PM EST
    ... he will need more than the good Joe Tacopina's help.

    The only way to save Joran is to fight fire with fire, someone with deep pockets to gazump all previous bribes and at the same time have the
    Peruvian authorities exonerated.


    Parent

    He doesn't stand a chance (none / 0) (#44)
    by Untold Story on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 03:15:18 PM EST
    not a chance!  

    And, who are these three judges and how are they elected, appointed, and for what term?

    At least we got background on the judges in the Arubian case.

    I wish Tacopina could go - just so coverage itself would change - somewhat.

    Parent

    the young man needs high caliber assistance, now. (none / 0) (#68)
    by railroaded on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 05:58:06 PM EST


    Parent
    He most certainly does (none / 0) (#70)
    by Untold Story on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 06:20:05 PM EST
    someone that can take up the slack in media reporting and help make this process more transparent at the very least.

    Parent
    no chance. (none / 0) (#80)
    by railroaded on Wed Jul 07, 2010 at 04:43:42 AM EST
    the media are the least of his worries.

    It's the hierarchy that has him confined.

    One of the many things that get to me in this case is that Stephany Flores, or is it Stephany Tatiana Flores, or is it Stephany Flores Ramirez, or is it Stephany Tatiana Flores Ramirez, is a lesbian who has a boyfriend. Well, a lesbian who has a boyfriend? Will somebody puhlease explain.

    Parent

    Think the latter name is the correct one (none / 0) (#85)
    by Untold Story on Wed Jul 07, 2010 at 08:16:31 PM EST
    She is supposed to have had a boyfriend from the slum area where her car was found.

    She is reported by casino staff to have been seen days or day before in the casino with a male companion (they would not release his name), not at the poker tables, but at the Barracat area.

    Was the one girlfriend on the Today Show for real, someone set up to make things look differently for political reasons, or the real McCoy, or someone wanting fifteen minutes of fame?

    Perhaps Stephany was bi-sexual, perhaps she was sexually curious -- don't have a clue and we will never know and don't need to know really.

    Just hope they interview all her friends whether they be boys, men, women or girls, companions, escorts, whatever, and find out where they all were when she was murdered.

    Parent

    Nevermind my next post . . . (none / 0) (#86)
    by Untold Story on Wed Jul 07, 2010 at 08:22:31 PM EST
    Jeralyn posted #77 all the information on the male companion and Mr. Flores as a witness.  (Tell you, she is on top of everything!)

    Parent
    Judge panel (none / 0) (#5)
    by waldenpond on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 09:44:12 AM EST
    Papers always do sensationalist garbage and I don't believe reporting on a lawyers arrival would have a negative effect on a jury if there were one.

    I thought a good thing was that there was no reporting that the judge he has for his investigation was extreme either way.  Also, what appears to be a positive, is there is not a lot of leaking about the judge investigation.

    Can Tacopina be questioned as a witness regarding his statements about VDS that he made on tv (after the incident but before contact with VDS mother)?

    Just Curious (none / 0) (#17)
    by squeaky on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 01:59:38 PM EST
    If the media is sensationalist and you are able to filter out the ranting of the Peruvian press, where are you getting your information from that makes you believe that Joran is getting such a fair shake?

    Parent
    Here (none / 0) (#28)
    by waldenpond on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 02:23:39 PM EST
    tv and reading on the internet.  Someone makes a statement, and I try to verify it with multiple reports.  I give little value to a lot of what's reported.  It really comes down to what the judging panel will weigh in court.

    Take for instance the bucket of water.  Someone reports VDS was threatened with dunking (torture), I look it up, see bucket and bowl reports, read the reports that he appealed his confession, noted he did not include a bucket or bowl in his habeas and so give it little weight.

    I don't know that anyone gets a 'fair shake' from the legal system.  VDS seems to have a representation that is willing to do everything in their power to represent him.  

    Parent

    Where On The Internet (none / 0) (#35)
    by squeaky on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 02:50:07 PM EST
    I also use deduction but that has led me to conclude that the trial is rigged and quite unfair.

    I do not watch teevee as most of that is entertainment, not news, or so I determined 20 years ago, and somehow I doubt that has changed.

    Please turn me on to your sources of internet info that would help me to understand your point of view that the treatment Joran is getting is fair and balanced, and I do not mean Faux News style fair and balanced.

    My take, from reading the comments here and TL's post, as well as occasionally searching on the internet for detail I am curious about regarding the case, is that those who are viewing the process as fair, firmly believe that Joran Van der Sloot is a despicable misogynist and basically a sociopathic serial killer.

    Parent

    Of course (none / 0) (#37)
    by jbindc on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 02:58:56 PM EST
    You forget to say that you generally assume that proceedings are rigged and unfair, so you have a huge bias in actually seeing the other side - namely, that the proceedings will be fair.  Your comments have indicated that you don't believe anyone is guilty of anything (unless you are talking about Bush and Cheney) and should be locked up.  

    Can't you see that your own biases are preventing you from looking at this through any other lens?

    Parent

    Huh? (none / 0) (#48)
    by squeaky on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 03:24:42 PM EST
    I do not know whether Joran Van Der Sloot is guilty or innocent.

    Going by the reports coming out of Peru, it would be hard to believe that he was innocent.

    Going by your comments, about this case, the Aruba case, and most other cases, you tend to presume guilt. Must be because it makes you feel safer.

    I have no problem with a guilty verdict if it appears to be fair, and I have no problem with those involved with violent crime going to jail. I do have a problem with crazy long sentences, and I do have a biiiiiiig problem with people like you who are proud that the US leads the world in per capita incarceration.

    Parent

    Nice mind reading there again. (none / 0) (#49)
    by jbindc on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 03:29:47 PM EST


    Parent
    stop the sniping (none / 0) (#54)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 03:48:41 PM EST
    and JBinDC, you do always take the side of the prosecution. It gets tiresome. This is a defense site and you won't be allowed to drown out my message by chattering, blog-clogging and quibbling with every post.

    If you see a factual error, feel free to point it out and I'm glad to correct it. If you don't like the opinions here to your liking, then find a site you do like.

    I don't allow any one poster to dominate threads, or continous sniping between two commenters, it makes for boring reading for everyone else.

    Parent

    Hmmmm (none / 0) (#58)
    by jbindc on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 04:06:19 PM EST
    All my comments have pointed out that we don't really know what the facts are, but that it is just silly to assume at this stage that he won't get a fair trial - apparently many here think it's a foregone conclusion that he is being railroaded.

    Not sure how pointing out that we don't know all the facts, and that assuming the worst about an entire process is "pro-prosecution"   - but I guess that proves the point that everyone's biases taint what they read.

    Parent

    WTG Jeralyn (none / 0) (#74)
    by AlohaMade on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 06:33:31 PM EST
    Thank Goodness! ;)

    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#41)
    by Untold Story on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 03:07:30 PM EST
    and that he went to Lima with a diabolical plan, premediated, to murder someone on May 30 at the same time as he is supposed to have committed an unsubstantiated crime of five years before.

    Parent
    In the midst.... (none / 0) (#88)
    by railroaded on Fri Jul 09, 2010 at 03:14:52 AM EST
    ....of an extortion attempt in preparation for two poker tournaments. Busy young man.

    Parent
    VDS? Not me (none / 0) (#51)
    by waldenpond on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 03:32:37 PM EST
    The posts on TL have extremists on both ends.  I don't find VDS attitude different from some young men.  I think there are some connections between the stories of Aruba and Peru based on memories but completely ignore the 'Halloway is evil' crowd along with the 'VDS is evil' crowd as Aruba is completely irrelevant to what is occuring in Perua.

    I don't visit any particular site, and have hesitated to provide any links as the conversation has had a particular slant but will do so from now on.

    My personal bias... two juries and one grand jury.  Two not-guilty and fault finding on the part of police action.  I guess I just have faith in my own ability to be rigid in regard to putting the burden on the system?  Very sceptical.

    Parent

    How are these judges selected? (none / 0) (#20)
    by Untold Story on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 02:03:18 PM EST
    Are they appointees of a sitting administration?

    What is their record before a proclamation of neutrality is readily given -- even here in the States judges' records need to be considered.  And this is Peru!

    Parent

    I think it's nuts (none / 0) (#10)
    by waldenpond on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 01:45:24 PM EST
    but I don't see how VDS is a product of corruption.  He seems to have a decent judge and effective representation and is being kept safe while the legal process chugs along.

    It must be me, I just don't care about all of the ranting in the Peruvian media nor the conspiracy theorists.  I try to filter that all out and focus on process.

    I agree (none / 0) (#11)
    by jbindc on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 01:52:33 PM EST
    As I've said before - the world is watching.  If anyone in Peru is going to get a fair proceeding and will get any break that is even remotely possible, he will be the one to get it.  I don't understand the conspiracy theorists.

    Parent
    Conspiracy Theorists? (none / 0) (#14)
    by squeaky on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 01:56:35 PM EST
    Wow talk about non-sequiturs. Nice way to tarnish the subject at hand. Wacko conspiracy theories have nothing to do with whether or not the Peruvian justice system is corrupt and whether or not the reporting is biased.

    Parent
    Again, I ask you (none / 0) (#18)
    by jbindc on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 02:00:13 PM EST
    Where is the evidence that the people involved in this specific case are corrupt and that JVDS will not get a fair shake?  

    Or are you just speaking in more conjecture and opinion?

    Parent

    Well (none / 0) (#21)
    by squeaky on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 02:04:14 PM EST
    Unlike you, I have no first hand experience with the Peruvian justice system. And I did not follow the other case in Aruba.

    But what I have done, of late, is read up on what goes on in Peru. I have read about the jails, and the justice system. Most, if not all of what I have read, indicates that if you have money and connections you can make anything happen in Peru.

    Parent

    You may be right (none / 0) (#22)
    by jbindc on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 02:10:17 PM EST
    It may be completely corrupt.  But that does not mean that A)JVDS is innocent, or b)that the people in this specific case are corrupt.  You're asking me to prove a negative, which is impossible - I say, until someone can show that the people in this process are corrupt and there is no way he is getting a fair shake, that I will keep an open mind and assume the process is working.  Until then, it's foolish to run around with your hair on fire and assume he's getting screwed.  

    As you point out, Jeralyn is showing some stuff from Peru - it's her blog and being a criminal defense attorney, she's going to see things a certain way.  But that also doesn't mean she's always right or she's always wrong or whatever. I'll ignore your ignorant comments about assuming where else I read, but reiterate that's why you just can't read about these types of things here and assume you are getting the whole story.


    Parent

    Hilarious (none / 0) (#24)
    by squeaky on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 02:15:12 PM EST
    ...I will keep an open mind..
    .

    Yeah, you will keep an open mind that the Peruvian justice system is fair and Joran is guilty...

    Good one!

    Parent

    Okay (none / 0) (#13)
    by squeaky on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 01:53:33 PM EST
    Tell it to Jeralyn.... most of what I have read about the Peruvian justice system has been here. Whenever I have ventured to have a look around the net, most reports of what goes on in Peru corroborate that view.

    Not sure where you are getting your info, but if it is from TL, Jeralyn has repeatedly pointed out that he is not likely to get a fair shake.

    Parent

    And (none / 0) (#16)
    by jbindc on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 01:58:59 PM EST
    Jeralyn is certainly entitled to her opinion.  But she's also a criminal defense attorney, so she will have one perspective.

    Maybe you should read more than just this site for your news and information.

    Parent

    "There is no rule of law in Peru....." (none / 0) (#50)
    by railroaded on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 03:31:21 PM EST
    Congressman Jorge Avendaño, former professor at the Universidad Católica and former dean of the Bar Association, argues: "There is no rule of law in the country ... because there is no separation of powers. There is no independent justice, and the right of the people to express themselves through the referendum has been impeded. In Peru, it is not the law that prevails, but the will of the ruler, and this is the opposite of the rule of law." Link here.

    How many Judges were dismissed..... (none / 0) (#63)
    by railroaded on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 05:14:13 PM EST
    ....in the United States in 2006?

    Peru, 2006;

    "Also during 2006, has dismissed 12 judges, five of them belonging to orders of removal for the year 2006, four belonging to requests for removal from the year 2005 but have been resolved in 2006, two Supreme Court Justices dismissed at the request of either party and an ex officio."

    Link here.

    93 by Clinton and 8 by Bush (none / 0) (#66)
    by Untold Story on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 05:28:36 PM EST
    of US Attorneys.

    However, Peru's seem to base from misconduct rather than political preferences.

    Parent

    um, US Attorneys? (none / 0) (#67)
    by railroaded on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 05:50:29 PM EST
    Any Judges? Supreme Court Justices?

    In Peru I linked to 12 Judges and 2 Supreme Court Justices.

    In the US is an Attorney a Judge?

    Excuse my lack of knowledge/ignorance.

    Parent

    Sorry, I got you off-topic (none / 0) (#76)
    by Untold Story on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 08:10:15 PM EST


    Parent
    Please stay on Joran's case (none / 0) (#72)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 06:26:48 PM EST
    and not the U.S. judicial system, thanks.

    Parent
    Mr. Flores (none / 0) (#75)
    by Untold Story on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 08:07:09 PM EST
    met with the judge assigned to Joran today.  He was interviewed as a witness.  I am at a loss to understand why her father is a witness?  As far as reports go, he did not even view the body.

    Also, it is also being reported Stephany was in the casino with another man but the casino personnel would not reveal his name.

    he gave a statement (none / 0) (#77)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 09:59:03 PM EST
    to the Judge on June 29.  He could be a witness regarding his having spoken to Stephany by phone Sat night around 10 pm, or because he gave her $1,000 to buy a laptop on Friday, or any number of other reasons. (The car being found the next day, her usual habits, his reporting her missing.)

    The report about Stephany being in a casino with someone other than Joran is referring to a different night earlier that week and comes from the Atlantic City Casino manager.  

    Laos confirmed reports that Flores "won very little money" at the poker table on May 29. He said she won only 670 sols, about $237. Laos said van der Sloot did not win any money that night.

    Just days earlier, on May 25, Laos said Flores won $10,000. But he said, it was not at the poker table. The spokesman recalled Flores was with a "male friend" he would not identify in an area where there are only baccarat tables.

    Laos said the "male friend" was not van der Sloot. Based on Laos' review of eight to 10 surveillance cameras, he said van der Sloot was not present when Flores won the $10,000. Van der Sloot had been seen in the casino about a week before Flores' death.

    As to her winning $237 the night she was with Joran, I reported that here and showed the video of her cashing out.

    The casino video shows Stephany cashing out her chips, totaling 676 soles, which is around 300 Euros. If he took her money and credit cards after she died, and didn't kill her for that purpose, I don't think the greater charge applies. Check out the video below at 3 minutes, 15 seconds in

    Mr. Flores discussed the events with a Peruvian journalist  named Jaime Bayly on his tv show, El Fracotirador." It's in 9 segments on You Tube (go here) with the user posting English translations. It's very interesting, I watched 7 of the 9.

    Parent

    Thanks (none / 0) (#87)
    by Untold Story on Wed Jul 07, 2010 at 08:23:45 PM EST


    Parent
    thanks, Donald (none / 0) (#78)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Jul 06, 2010 at 10:02:58 PM EST
    I just deleted the comments you were responding to, they had no substance, just sniping between the two of them. When comments become personal they bog down the thread and people stop reading.

    More Inaccurate Reporting on Joran Van der Sloot's Lawyers | 78 comments (78 topical)

    Readers Must Login or Create an Account to Comment