Good stuff from the President:
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We've seen this game before. The catfood commission was the opening move. This "committed to working with anyone, Democrat or Republican, who wants to strengthen Social Security" is something we've seen before. Read between the artfully crafted lines.
If the president wants to "strengthen" Social Security rather than open it up to be torn apart, he should say exactly what it is he means by "strengthen" and propose some actual ideas for getting there. I submit that what the man is doing is speaking in the code of political rhetoric which tells "conservative" Republicans and Democrats that he'll work with them (or at least get out of their way) on gutting the program.
It's the same crap from the campaign and from the war and from health care deform all over again. Obama must be parsed carefully.
Social Security doesn't need "strengthening." What it needs is actual support from our elected leaders.
Watch what Obama et al DO, not what they say. Pretty words go pretty far in bamboozling the public, but, sooner or later, people are going to catch on the Obama Corporatist bent and how well he takes care of Big Bidness. He just doesn't see the need to help out the little people that way.
Oh, he'll use pretty words to get their votes; he just may not fulfill any of those promises. Based on his presidential campaign, he tends to save his more truthful comments and promises for those private fund raisers or other private meetings with the powerful and wealthy.
Ask yourself --and Obama if you ever get the chance-- just why he put SocSec in play, to be attacked by the Republicans? And Corporatists in his ostensible party? Recall that he did this early in Dem primaries, causing Krugman and others to raise the alarm. Now, we're stuck with him as our president. What will we do to contain his rightward tendencies???
BTW, recall that in 1983, all SocSec payers began to "pay forward" with higher deductions to manage the Baby Boom Bulge. And ages for full SocSec were raised. At the time, I thought nothing of it; no problem: I had education and experience, there would be no issue with working until 66.
D'uh. Downsizing at a "bad" age to find another job. Cancer, so now expensive to cover with health insurance. Major recession (looking more like a depression for employment). Suddenly, getting to 66 is not going to be in any way "easy."
I have a great mechanic, but, alas, last time I was in getting work done on my aging car, he was having to take pain pills repeatedly...for arthritis in his elbows. Working on cars and trucks is hard physical labor; it takes a toll on the workers' bodies. And this guy is supposed to do this work until 70 so Obama can please Repubs who hate SocSec??? And he dasn't really tax the wealthy? Wow.
Take a moment to think about the effects on others, those who aren't desk jockeys. Please.
And, again, what what he does, not what he says. Parent
I like to think I am not shy to criticize Obama, but come on, the guy said the right things here. Parent
the guy said the right things here
. . . and do what they do Parent
You think my complaint is ridiculous? I think my complaint will be prescient. One of us will turn out to have been right. Time will tell. Parent
Let's hope there are some Dem senators who are capable of pulling off a filibuster, otherwise...Katie bar the door!
It's what Obama wants to accomplish. This channeling of St. Ronnie has got to stop -- or be stopped. Who will challenge this ostenstibly Dem president? Parent
I am hopeful, too, that the parts of the statement that recognize FDR's "cornerstone" for retirement with dignity and a program to be sustained for all Americans today, tomorrow and forever, does not go unnoticed by this hostile commission (save for a few, such as Dick Durbin and Jan Schakowsky).
Not a means-tested program that would be the antithesis of FDR's idea, but a social retirement safety net for all Americans. Means testing is just second best to elimination, it would just take a little longer until it becomes a politically vulnerable welfare program. The timing of President Obama's declaration may also be convenient for the Harry Reid/Sharron Angle race, since Ms. Angle is for the Chile model of privatization (since the Bush model imploded in 2005, apparently). Also, it may intended to ameliorate the Gibbsian rant on professional lefties, by taking on Paul Ryan, an advocate of privatization who is also on the Cat Food Commission.
The puzzling comment in the president's address was how to "strengthen" social security and "cover the higher costs". The Trustees Report of 2010 does not seem to support that statement, and suggests that social security is a target, albeit not via privatization.
As long as that Cat Food Commission is out there, doing its thing in secrecy, planning to report after the election, with anti-entitlement co-chairs that Obama himself named, I won't be convinced by "just words."
It's all part of the seduction leading up to the election, lulling the people into thinking Democrats are on their side; it remains to be seen whether a Democratic party and a Democratic president who haven't delivered on their end of the 2008 electoral bargain have any intention of delivering on the the one they are making now.
My trust level is at or below zero.
And to rule out privatization is hardly reassuring, as there is a lot of wiggle room short of that in, ahem, "strengthening" Social Security, isn't there?
tell obama to STFU on SS and work on something important like the criminally obscene military budget bankrupting generations of Americans and the out of control security apparatus shredding our rights to privacy and security from abusive government.
The Democratic leadership will seek to brand every Republican running for office with my road map. Ironically, if Democrats succeed in demagoguing to death efforts [my plan lol] to save Medicare, that political victory will hasten the program's end. While I am proud to have 13 House Republicans co-sponsor the legislation, and have been overwhelmed by the support outside the Beltway....
And seems quite reasonable, considering the toxicity of the Rand's idea, to attach it to the GOP as a wedge issue. Parent
Better than having spies. Parent
I also know one thing President Obama didn't say here. He didn't say he would commit to not raising the retirement age. My retirement age was raised once already, in 1983, not long after I began paying in. It went from 65 to 67 to receive full benefits.
The only reason I'm in danger, now, of seeing it perhaps raised to 70 is Barack Obama.
Do I need to remind those who are outraged at the idea of removing caps on the tax how "unfair a deal" SS is for those of us with occupations that offer a life expectancy notably below that of white collar workers?
I'm in the Laborer's Union, I do asphalt work, mainly.
Half of the people I've worked intimately with have died before collecting SS.
My father and uncles, all blue collar, barely got a taste of SS.
At our OSHA mandated safety meaning our instructor asked those of us who work with asphalt to raise our hands.
He then pointed at us and said, "You're dead, you're dead, you're dead," and so on, as he pointed us out.
Recycled asphalt is all the rage and that unavoidably contains asbestos.
And then there's the silica in the dust from construction sites.
But we're not whining about this, SS is an awesome program.
Just don't keep that brass ring totally out of our reach, Mr. President.
Strive to be as progressive as Bob Dole at least. He swore he wouldn't raise the retirement age so high that it would be tantamount to asking workers to die on the assembly line. (IIRC)
I'm sure Obama doesn't want to "privatize" Social Security, but I am also sure he will be looking to the catfood commission to give him and "conservatives" of both parties in congress the political cover they need to "strengthen" Social Security through some combination of cuts to scheduled benefits and/or raising of the retirement age.* His post-partisan unity shtick line where he says he is "committed to working with anyone, Democrat or Republican, who wants to strengthen Social Security" is the tell.
*That is why the catfood commission was appointed by the president after congress refused to establish such a commission. It's the fundamental reason for its existence. Parent
There is nothing you can possibly criticize in this statement. Parent
There didn't need to be a deficit commission. If Obama wants to reduce the deficit, and I don't doubt that he does, there are many policies he could advocate directly.
This is health care all over again: dictate that single payer may not be debated, say you're in favor of the public option, and do the dirty work of betraying the American people quietly behind closed doors. The catfood commission, his statement today: we've seen this game played before by Obama. "Evading and deflecting and distracting." Parent
Seriously, his "committed to working with anyone, Democrat or Republican, who wants to strengthen Social Security" is an open invitation to "fix" what ain't broke. You know it as well as I do. We've seen this story before, and we know how it ends. Parent
... etc., etc., etc. .... Parent
Krugman has been all over this the last few days. Links:
Social Security Finances
Live Long and Prosper
A Minor Fiscal Issue
Fun with Mortality Tables
More on Mortality
A Tale of Two Expenses
Obama knows that Social Security is on firm ground far past the time that any accurate forecasts can be made, and the very best way to "strengthen" Social Security is to get the economy going and get people back to work at jobs that pay a decent middle-class wage...with benefits. His call here to "strengthen" Social Security with ideas coming from both Democrats and Republicans is just a set-up designed to allow him to seek "compromise" and "bi-partisan consensus" on an issue that isn't a problem. In other words, he's looking to make cuts.
(BTD can say that my posts on this point are ridiculous if he wants. Doesn't hurt my feelings. I know the Obama playbook. I see what I see.) Parent
Myth: The Social Security Trust Fund has been raided and is full of IOUs Reality: Not even close to true. The Social Security Trust Fund isn't full of IOUs, it's full of U.S. Treasury Bonds. And those bonds are backed by the full faith and credit of the United States. The reason Social Security holds only treasury bonds is the same reason many Americans do: The federal government has never missed a single interest payment on its debts. President Bush wanted to put Social Security funds in the stock market--which would have been disastrous--but luckily, he failed. So the trillions of dollars in the Social Security Trust Fund, which are separate from the regular budget, are as safe as can be.
Reality: Not even close to true. The Social Security Trust Fund isn't full of IOUs, it's full of U.S. Treasury Bonds. And those bonds are backed by the full faith and credit of the United States. The reason Social Security holds only treasury bonds is the same reason many Americans do: The federal government has never missed a single interest payment on its debts. President Bush wanted to put Social Security funds in the stock market--which would have been disastrous--but luckily, he failed. So the trillions of dollars in the Social Security Trust Fund, which are separate from the regular budget, are as safe as can be.
Read the rest digby Parent
My son, only 35, claims that he'd rather be a Buddhist monk than collect SS.
That is an interesting comparison.. Hard to imagine where he is coming from. Parent
Is it a healthier plane, too, or is he willing to accept Medicare coverage, hmmmmm? Ooops, ommmmmm. Parent
Short of qualifying quarters? Parent
Dollars at 62 have more worth than possible dollars at 65 and/or 67. Parent
Of course, perhaps this all will be easier for younger generations with national health care, oops, national health insurance coverage. Parent
1943--1954 66
But the link is inexact, and I said "almost 67," because the link does not list the months as well -- i.e., I cannot collect starting on my 66th birthday but not until almost my 67th birthday.
Doesn't your annual statement also include the specific month as well as year for age to collect? Parent
Not to deflect, but doing the math and based on my family's average live expectancy (which is well beyond 65-70 years), there is no way I'll recoup the monies I've paid into the system.
It is a Ponzi scheme of the highest order. Parent
Krugman and others have explained this many times. Obama's cat food commission and others who wish to destroy SS are deliberatly spreading false information. Parent
These do not seem like crisis numbers to me. The people who established Social Security were really quite skilled when it came to mortality projections. They accounted for that.
I believe that your anecdotal observations are that people died at an earlier age. My observations are different. In my family, my grandparents, born around 1900, lived until their 90s. So did my great-grandparents, born in the early 1880s. And these people were farmers, a physically demanding job. This is why we can't based these decisions on personal observation. Parent
A couple of less physically demanding job categories in there. By 1975 only 2 members of my extended family had ever collected on their social security contributions--and one of them (a teacher) affixed stamps to envelopes at the family business in order to qualify.
Things have sure changed! Parent
OK--read and weep for our public discourse.
The assignment is this and this post by Susan G at Daily Kos about Social Security myths. The first is this one about life expectancy, which is something that has driven me crazy for years. Much of the literature about "problems" with social security will tell you that longer life expectancy was unanticipated by the people who designed the system, which is ridiculous. They certainly did. And they will also tell you that life expectancy was only 63 at the time social security was designed, which is true, but they neglect to explain that life expectancy in those days was was shorter mostly because of childhood diseases, which means that the financing ratios were never affected. After all, kids who die at 3 never pay FICA in the first place. Anyway, the upshot is this, from Nancy Altman's important book on the subject The Battle for Social Security: From FDR's Vision To Bush's Gamble: For Social Security purposes, the correct question is not how many live to age 65, but rather how long those reaching age 65 live thereafter. Here the numbers are not as dramatic. In 1940, men who survived to age 65 had a remaining life expectancy of 12.7 years. Today, a 65 year old man can expect to live not quite three years longer than he might have in 1940, or 15.3 years beyond reaching age 65. For women, the comparable numbers are 14.7 years beyond age 65 in 1940; 19.6 years in 1990.(My emphasis throughout)
For Social Security purposes, the correct question is not how many live to age 65, but rather how long those reaching age 65 live thereafter. Here the numbers are not as dramatic. In 1940, men who survived to age 65 had a remaining life expectancy of 12.7 years. Today, a 65 year old man can expect to live not quite three years longer than he might have in 1940, or 15.3 years beyond reaching age 65. For women, the comparable numbers are 14.7 years beyond age 65 in 1940; 19.6 years in 1990.
See why these zombie myths are so insidious? They tell you part of the facts, which can mislead even those who know better, have been through this political fight before (BushCo, remember? When Josh Marshall marshalled his readers to demand that their Congress Critters spell out exactly where they stood on SocSec issues???) tend to forget all the niggling details. I did; I needed to refresh my memory. I knew it was untrue, but I'd forgotten the factual basis for proving it was untrue. If you don't recall the facts, the lies sound feasible, rational...and once we buy the premise, we can be sold the bad, bad deal.
These politcal rats depend on our being busy, distracted, easy to bamboozle. Beware the deadly SocSec Myths!
The links to the original posts are at Digby's post, so just click through and be prepared for the zombie myth lies. Parent
Social Security Turns 75, but will it survive to see another 75 years or more?
And accompanying it is a "game" with ideas for how to "save" it - I kid you not - a game.
But first: the poll...
How to fix Social Security Social Security turns 75 this month. What would you do to ensure that it continues paying full benefits for another 75 years or longer? These are frequent proposals to fix the projected shortfall that the American Academy of Actuaries highlights in its Social Security Game. Most solutions fill only part of the hole. Vote for how you would solve the problem here or play the Social Security Game to see how your choices add up. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Raise the age at which you become eligible for full benefits to 70 for future workers (It's now age 67 for those born in 1960 and later.) Reduce expected annual cost of living adjustments by 0.5 percentage points Reduce benefits by 5 percent for future retirees Reduce benefits for top half of earners Raise payroll tax from 6.2% to 6.7% for both workers and employers Make more wages subject to Social Security by gradually raising the cap on earnings that can be taxed (now $106,800) Tax Social Security benefits like pension income Add new state and local government workers to system; some governments don't participate
Social Security turns 75 this month. What would you do to ensure that it continues paying full benefits for another 75 years or longer? These are frequent proposals to fix the projected shortfall that the American Academy of Actuaries highlights in its Social Security Game. Most solutions fill only part of the hole. Vote for how you would solve the problem here or play the Social Security Game to see how your choices add up.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Raise the age at which you become eligible for full benefits to 70 for future workers (It's now age 67 for those born in 1960 and later.)
Reduce expected annual cost of living adjustments by 0.5 percentage points
Reduce benefits by 5 percent for future retirees
Reduce benefits for top half of earners
Raise payroll tax from 6.2% to 6.7% for both workers and employers
Make more wages subject to Social Security by gradually raising the cap on earnings that can be taxed (now $106,800)
Tax Social Security benefits like pension income
Add new state and local government workers to system; some governments don't participate
And now...the game.
I am mulling over a response to the author of an article that does nothing - nothing - but feed into this myth that we have to "fix" SS. Parent
I don't see full employment anywhere in the possible ways to best fund SocSec....
Oh, that's right, Geithner and Obama are on board with the New Unemployment Higher Level approach. Parent
Also, I'm pretty sure I'll be able to say that you speak for yourself AND sj. Parent
That said, here is another view of the SS situation.
Link
Sounds like a shoot the messenger comment. Parent
Of those in favor of that concept also willing to allow higher SS payments for those who do pay in those additional amounts?
It is "their" money - right?
Does your private investments offer the same return on your money? And/or would you accept that as an acceptable answer? Parent
Assuming my income continues to increase, my benefit will, too. Parent
If you, me or your aunt contributes $X based on their years of payments, then the benefit/payment is based on the contribution. To balance out and make fair, the yearly maximum contribution is capped based on income.
To remove the actuarial based contribution but to keep the benefit the same is pure theft.
I'd be willing to bet that anyone here who has planned for their retirement beyond SS would be outraged and jumping on desks of any financial planner who offered up the increased contribution plan like the SS concept. Parent
i think so. Parent
Otherwise it is just a pure wealth redistribution scheme which cuts the knees out of everything that has been said/promised from FDR onward.
How much of your money do you want to send to me every month? Parent
When were you supposed to be told? Maybe in U.S. history class? Can't say I've looked at h.s. history texts lately, but it's covered in the college text I use. Parent
...everyone would understand why we need to be prudent about investing the retirement money of tens of millions of Americans.
Does he think we are all stupid? SS money is spent not a penny is invested.