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Monday Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 10:27:59 AM EST
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I'm off to the jail and then have motions to write.

Update: the iPad on 3G gets great reception in a cement visiting room Who would have thought it? Wireless never works this good, if at all.

Here's an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    This sounds familiar (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by jbindc on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 10:38:26 AM EST
    From HuffPo:

    JERUSALEM -- Israel on Sunday approved new residency criteria that could result in the deportations of hundreds of children of migrant workers.

    The decision by Israel's Cabinet represented a small step by Israel to clear up the status of thousands of foreign workers in Israel.

    Under the decision, children of migrants whose parents entered Israel legally may remain if they are enrolled in school, speak Hebrew and have been here longer than five years.

    An Israeli advocacy group, the Hotline for Migrant Workers, estimates 700 of 1,200 school-age children are at risk of deportation, along with their parents.

    About 200,000 migrant workers live in Israel, mostly from the Philippines, China and Africa. About half have overstayed their visas, thousands for many years. Many have children who were born in Israel and know no other home.

    Some Israelis complain that illegal migrants are taking jobs away from citizens. Others worry that the non-Jewish workers could upset the Jewish nature of the society.
    Brewer isn't a xenophobe (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 11:04:40 PM EST
    she's just perfectly willing to cater to xenophobes for fun, profit and votes.  In my book, that makes her worse than actual committed xenophobes like Buchanan.

    Parent
    How much of this is attributed to their religion (none / 0) (#2)
    by Saul on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 10:57:56 AM EST
    I have heard that the true Messiah (not Jesus) can only come if Israel is totally occupied by Jews.  Any truth to that belief?

    Also the idea that migrants take away jobs from Jews sound so familiar with the Mexican migrant worker theory.  Just last week CNN did a news section where the news guy (who spoke some Spanish) decided to work along the migrants doing what they do.  CNN went to a grape farm I believe in CA.  The newsman asked in Spanish one of the migrant workers how many white Americans he as seen picking grapes.  He said he never has seen one.  The newsman went to the owner of the grape farm and asked him how many white Americans have applied to work on your farm picking grapes.  He said there has never been one white american wanting to work here picking grapes.  End of story


    Parent

    Grapes... (none / 0) (#3)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 11:05:44 AM EST
    are crazy expensive right now too...a nice sized bag (forget the actual weight) was 6 bucks last week.

    Can't imagine what they would cost if the vineyard owners had to pay enough to make native-born crackers want to do that back-breaking work.
    I think I'd want $20-25 an hour minimum.

    Parent

    maybe (none / 0) (#7)
    by NYShooter on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 11:41:39 AM EST
    But I've stated over and over again that in my business, whenever I put an ad in the paper for laborers, I'll get 20 foreigners applying and 2 or 3  Americans. And those 2 or 3 Americans don't make it to lunchtime their first day on the job.

    That's just the way it is.


    Parent

    I don't doubt it... (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 11:56:57 AM EST
    I've seen my fellow natives fall by the wayside after a day, or half day, on my share of laborer crews.  And once my economic dire straights subsided I got the f*ck outta there too...you gotta be desperate or nuts to bust your back at the prevailing wages in some sectors.

    But I hold onto the belief that if the wage is right native born Americans will do any work...if the wage is right.  Slaving in a sewage pit fixing pumps ain't fun either...but Americans do that because you can make $75 an hour.

    Hence our reliance on undocumented labor...the wages ain't right, our economy needs the desperate to function.

    I don't have an answer...I like grapes and would like to continue to be able to afford to eat them, but I'd also like to see grape pickers get paid right.  The whole thang makes my head hurt.

    Parent

    I agree. (none / 0) (#18)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 12:41:01 PM EST
    I did a post on TL last year regarding grape laborers (that I'm too lazy to try to find) that had direct quotes from some of the wine vineyard owners that I know, and iirc the starting pay was around $15/hour.

    Decent pay, for entry-level office job in CA, maybe. Not for busting your butt in a vineyard all day long...

    Parent

    New York State, (none / 0) (#80)
    by NYShooter on Tue Aug 03, 2010 at 12:54:17 AM EST
    Especially the Hudson Valley Has been a fruit growing Mecca for generations. Every type of fruit imaginable is grown here. With the constant push of NY City residents migrating North to the Valley, all sorts of exotic micro-farms, growing fruits I had never heard of, are also popping up. Of course, young Manhattan professionals,  trading their corner cubicles for the dream of becoming the next Gallo Dynasty have spearheaded an explosion of small vineyards throughout the land.

    While the farms are changing and the types of farms are also changing, one thing that never changes is that without seasonal Caribbean pickers there would no farming, period.

    And all this brings me to the point I would like to address and open for discussion.

    First of all, since non-citizen farm labor has been going on forever, why has it become a great national "catastrophe"  fairly recently?

    Secondly, if "illegal" workers are such an economic and national security problem why is that every President in my lifetime, Democrat, Republican, Left, Right, have chosen to drag their feet and basically wink at the problem, and just wish it to go away?

    The answer is, every President from George Bush to Barack Obama understood one thing; without these workers America, as we know it, would cease to exist.  


    Parent

    It's a phoney catastrophe.... (none / 0) (#83)
    by kdog on Tue Aug 03, 2010 at 08:24:10 AM EST
    one of many false alarms, to keep our eyes off the real catastrophes.

    Parent
    My neighbor is from Upstate New York (none / 0) (#84)
    by Rojas on Tue Aug 03, 2010 at 08:58:12 AM EST
    where his family has/had an apple orchard. Claims they shut it down and are selling it off because it is no longer viable due to state taxes. Do you guys not have ag exemption on farm land up there?

    As to your first question, my mother grew up in a family of itinerant farm workers. They were not non-citizens. You might recall Woody Guthrie and that Grapes of Wrath thing. The viability of non-citizen farm work had more to with the geographical region one was located in the first half of the last century. The transportation infrastructure was not in place to support it.

    The national security risk is almost nil. The proof is in the pudding. We have a decade behind us. The issue is a power grab.

    The economic issue is different. Every administration has not simply ignored it. I've spent my life in construction and manufacturing in the DFW metroplex. There used to be real enforcement and economic risk associated with hiring illegals.
    It's a free for all now and it has had a devastating impact on the skilled trades. The quality of work has gone down and the viability of raising a family with a career in those areas is no mas. In 1982 I made 18.00 hr as a non union carpenter residential new construction working for a subcontractor that took out taxes and provided workmans comp. Load your truck up with tools today and find a development in Texas where they pay 33.50 hourly (legitimately) for a lead framer or trim carpenter. Ain't happening, you'll find it's worth about 18-20 and they'll insist on a contract labor deal even though it's not.
    You've got the lowest common denominator running the show these days. Real George Bush type businessmen.

    Parent

    Well, didn't you vote for change? (none / 0) (#85)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Aug 03, 2010 at 10:06:44 AM EST
    The issue is wages and working conditions.

    Unless the border is closed the endless supply of illegal immigrants will continue to depress the wages of both legal and illegal immigrants as well as US citizens.

    Would the increase in wages cause prices to increase? Yes, to an extent. An increase would also stir innovation. Remember, it was the exodus of poor black and white southerners from the cotton fields to northern factories that pushed for the development of cotton pickers.

    From a social viewpoint, why should our standard of living be paid for by low wages of immigrant workers?

    I am a southerner and I well remember local merchants, anxious to maintain their "standards," explain how a man wasn't worth more than 75 cents an hour and how bad it was for those factories to move south and unwittingly bring the unions with them.

    Parent

    I had a sub contractor that paid 120 dollars a day (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by Rojas on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 12:04:35 PM EST
    for concrete finishers. He always had plenty of Americans ready to go at it all day if you could keep the trucks coming. A half dozen years later they were paying 75. Those guys went at it all day as well.
    The difference was that in the 80s no one would/could risk having hundreds of yards of paving poured out when imigration showed up and your crew headed for the hills. The risk went way down in the 90s and was pretty much nonexistant by 2000.

    Parent
    I had a roofing contractor tell me the same thing (none / 0) (#78)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 11:48:44 PM EST
    when I was still living in Denver.

    Parent
    Of course.... (none / 0) (#81)
    by Rojas on Tue Aug 03, 2010 at 07:04:50 AM EST
    What happens to your general liability rates after your crews keep disappearing in the middle of a tear off? It's going to be time to flip that company. And many did, leaving the courts to sort it out. There was risk and that risk was associated with enforcement. No mas.

    For those who say Americans wont do the work, it's just utter BS. I ran this work as a GS for decades. There is not a more physically demanding job than pouring concrete in Texas in the summertime. Most days starting out with trucks lined up before daylight and many ending with the last of the finishers working under the lights of our pickups.

    Parent

    Local grapes (none / 0) (#14)
    by nycstray on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 12:22:37 PM EST
    are just coming into season here. They showed up at our farmer's market for the first time Saturday before last. $1.50lb. I bought a decent sized bunch and it cost me a buck {grin} I'm literally just down the road from the Napa county line, wine country :)

    My NY farmer was was taking about the farms hiring Mexicans (legal through the Visa program) upstate. Said they could make it through a season where you never knew if a gung ho USA bred worker could. They usually don't last a season. That said, some smaller farms run by young farmers do use interns who are thinking about getting into farming. They get room/board/small amount of $$$. The hard part for farmers is, they generally hire help for the season, so they need to asses who really can make it through the harvest. I think the workers who get scr*wed the worst are the day laborers. I read about how it works for some down in Florida (which I'm sure is the same all over) and it was freakin' grim. Payed by the bushel or some such thing at an insane low rate, at the end of the day they only had a pittance in pay compared to what they harvested. And it was a loooong day also.

    On the upside, I do buy quite a bit from Mexican farmers at my farmers market. Asian also. I would say white farmers (or white owned farms) are the minority at my market.

    Parent

    Not quite the same all over (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 11:00:11 PM EST
    Small VT apple orchards, of which we have quite a number in my town, have for years hired (legal) Jamaican workers to come pick the apples every season, pay them decently, house and feed them very well on the farms, and these guys have become part of the community in many ways, welcomed with open arms every year.  The guys even give an informal concert at the end of the season every year, singing Jamaican hymns to a packed house of joyous white farm folk at the local church.  It's quite a thing to see.

    The seasonal thing is a big factor.  Even these days, it's pretty close to impossible to find that many good workers available for just a couple of months.

    There are communities in Jamaica that have traditionally sent a lot of workers here over the years and have a relationship with my town, which also raises money to send there to do things like help rebuild a church that's falling down or whatever the need is.

    These Jamaican guys are proud, hard-working family men who jump at the opportunity to come up here and make a lot more money in a couple of months than they can back home.

    I very much doubt VT is unique in this, and I think there's probably a lot more of this kind of arrangement that goes on in various places around the country without a great deal of publicity.

    Parent

    Florida sucks... (none / 0) (#24)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 12:58:49 PM EST
    for laborers...when I was day laboring down there I was bustin' my arse for $35 bucks a day ten years ago.  And I ain't talking leisurely broom-pushing...I'm talking digging pipe trenches by hand in August heat with a ball-bustin' foreman yellin' at ya for drinking too much water.  

    And that was "big money" compared to poor slob migrant workers gettin' paid by the bushel...what a mess.

    Parent

    And, in Virginia (none / 0) (#26)
    by jbindc on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 01:06:55 PM EST
    Per WaPo:

    Law enforcement officials in Virginia can inquire into immigration status of those they stop or arrest--just as they can under a controversial new immigration law in Arizona--Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli has ruled in an official legal opinion.

    Written in response to a request for legal advice from Del. Bob Marshall (R-Prince William), Cuccinelli ruled that police officers and other legal authorities can look into the immigration status of anyone stopped or arrested.

    A 2008 Virginia law requires that law enforcement check the immigration status of anyone taken into custody on suspicion of having committed a separate crime. Cuccinelli's opinion could expand such inquiries to those who have been legally stopped by law enforcement, for instance those pulled over for a traffic violation or at a police checkpoint.



    Parent
    Not the same at all (5.00 / 2) (#72)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 11:02:45 PM EST
    as I understand it.  Arizona's law requires police to inquire, and includes a provision that any citizen can file suit against individuals or municipalities who aren't sufficiently diligent about doing it.

    Parent
    My husband was telling me about (none / 0) (#79)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Aug 03, 2010 at 12:31:13 AM EST
    Virginia at dinner tonight.  AZ....bleh

    Parent
    Louisiana (none / 0) (#28)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 01:11:21 PM EST
    has, or had, a very similar scene. "Roustabout camps", where some guy with a 38 in his belt, under a greasy tee shirt, would register workers under any name they gave for a weekly kickback. And whether your name was Joseph Mengele or "The Lindbergh Baby", there was always some local bar that would cash that weekly check -- which would just about cover a few po' boy sandwichs, a night's drunk and a trip to the laundry mat. Or, so I hear. :)

    Parent
    That's the scene in a nutshell.... (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 01:25:06 PM EST
    the convenience store across the street from the day labor joint would cash your check, which left you with around $33 bucks...dinner, a pack of smokes, and a 1/4 of the denny...rinse and repeat manana.  The only good thing was the work left you so wiped out that if you had any cash left over you were too tired to spend it.

    And I had my youth and a couch to sleep on...how those old-timer alcoholics would sleep on a park bench and do that kinda work day after day is still beyond me...for broken men they had a fortitude I can't comprehend.

    Parent

    Misty, water-colored memories.. (none / 0) (#38)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 01:42:46 PM EST
    of the way we were..:)

    Parent
    Long Island Town... (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 11:36:11 AM EST
    using Google Earth to find illegal swimming pools and rack up the fines.  Link

    Note to self...put up a tent at the next bbq to shield any illegal activities from the eyes of Big Brother Google Earth.

    just make sure the tent (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 11:39:41 AM EST
    is within the legal size requirement..

    Parent
    LOL... (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 12:00:51 PM EST
    yep, I'm sure some restriction exists in the tyrannical town code...ya can't have people puttin' up tents all willy-nilly, anarchy will surely follow.

    Parent
    try registering as a Bedouin (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 12:06:16 PM EST
    and maybe start a Bedouin-American society, that might work.

    Parent
    Reminds me of the BBC (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by Wile ECoyote on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 01:47:48 PM EST
    driving around with a truck that can detect TV output in order to compare it with a database to see if anyone has skipped on their TV license tax.  

    Parent
    Can you say Creepy? (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 12:11:59 PM EST
    Sometimes Google Earth sucks :)  I sold a dog over two years ago and delivered her to Pensacola.  The owner called a lot and that's okay, but then he needed longer phone conversations and started calling drunk too, and my husband started complaining about how much phone time this partying guy was getting.  He would disturb supper and no matter how many times you explained you needed to go, he had another reason to say one more thing.  This year he wanted to breed his dog, but he hasn't OFA'd her, he hasn't temperament tested her or tested her thyroid...all things you want to do before you breed a German Shepherd.  He just wants to have puppies.  I opted out helping him.  The world has enough puppies for the sake of having puppies.  So he leaves this message on my answering machine, "Yeah Tracy, was looking at your house on Google, thinking about coming up to see you.  Boy there sure are a lot of woods around your house."  Can you say Creepy?  Someone please tell him there are a lot of German Shepherds in the woods too.  What a jerk, takes all kinds.

    Parent
    Heh, and I thought it was creepy (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by nycstray on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 12:26:29 PM EST
    when my sister started taking about my building/block in NY from looking at it on Google Earth!

    Parent
    Makes me really happy (none / 0) (#74)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 11:06:43 PM EST
    Google Earth hasn't gotten around to anywhere in my neck of the woods.  Sheesh!

    Parent
    I live in Pensacola (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by republicratitarian on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 12:43:01 PM EST
    Can you help me breed my dog? Just kidding. Did he have a Confederate Flag in the back of his truck?

    Parent
    Most creepy... (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 12:43:56 PM EST
    imagine what its gonna be like in another 50 years...Google Earth will have zoom capabilities to see the dinkle-berries on your K9's behind.

    Either that or the sh*t blew up already and we're explaining what a computer was to the children of tomorrow as we search for potable water...either way it ain't lookin' good:)

    Parent

    Cool pics, and I thought hanging camo on (none / 0) (#82)
    by republicratitarian on Tue Aug 03, 2010 at 08:15:53 AM EST
    a Bradley Fighting Vehicle was a pain. I wonder how long it took them to do that?

    Parent
    posting this again (none / 0) (#6)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 11:40:37 AM EST
    because I cant get enough of it and I think its one of the best trailers I have ever seen.

    cant wait.

    Sucker Punch

    and it got lost the other day in the AZ comments.

    First I've seen it (none / 0) (#16)
    by republicratitarian on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 12:27:09 PM EST
    Looks pretty cool.

    Parent
    In another couple (none / 0) (#17)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 12:32:07 PM EST
    of years they my have to start having another Oscar category for best trailer..

    And contests for people who can most accurately reconstruct entire films from all the clues given in overly long and revealing trailers.

    Parent

    That will be the length of our attention span. (none / 0) (#21)
    by republicratitarian on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 12:44:40 PM EST


    Parent
    these trailers (none / 0) (#22)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 12:47:07 PM EST
    are getting to be like the Cliff Notes version of the film..

    Parent
    just to balance things out (none / 0) (#23)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 12:58:00 PM EST
    they should be required to have Gilbert Gottfried do the voice-over for all of them..

    Parent
    and usually (none / 0) (#25)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 01:04:10 PM EST
    that represents everything worth seeing in the movie.
    I dont think that is the case with this one.
    after Watchmen I would watch anything this guy does.
    I think Watchmen was a minor masterpiece and this looks like another.

    Parent
    As confirmation (none / 0) (#13)
    by NYShooter on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 12:15:55 PM EST
    Of a post I wrote here a few days ago, regarding the economy, where I said basically, that "what you see is what you've got." This recession is not a recession like all the one's we're familiar with, but a plunge to a new, lower, plateau. The "masters" in control have agreed that there's not enough to go around (after confiscating trillions of public & private dollars) and those whose lives have been destroyed, or permanently crippled, will just have to get used to it.

    Krugman today:

    "But what's worse is the growing evidence that our governing elite just doesn't care -- that a once-unthinkable level of economic distress is in the process of becoming the new normal."

    And:

    "The point is that a large part of Congress -- large enough to block any action on jobs -- cares a lot about taxes on the richest 1 percent of the population, but very little about the plight of Americans who can't find work."

    and finally"

    "Two years from now unemployment will still be extremely high, quite possibly higher than it is now. But instead of taking responsibility for fixing the situation, politicians and Fed officials alike will declare that high unemployment is structural, beyond their control."

    Of course (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by Dadler on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 01:07:25 PM EST
    Money is treated as a rare migrating bird we have to pray will return, or a god we must make human sacrifices to for it to grace us. That it is OUR creation and completely under OUR control, while blindingly self-evident, has become akin to believing in Santa Claus.

    Parent
    That grand illusion (none / 0) (#35)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 01:32:10 PM EST
    you're talking about is too close to be noticed, D.

    It's like Henry Miller said back in the thirties: people have BECOME money. Money gets up in the morning after a restless, troubled "rest"; then money stumbles bleary-eyed to the bathroom..

    Parent

    Good column by Bob Herbert (none / 0) (#33)
    by DFLer on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 01:29:49 PM EST
    in the WashPo

    the jist of it being that Corporations could have fired fewer and could be hiring more now. Some comments are also helpful

    Parent

    website of the day (none / 0) (#29)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 01:15:30 PM EST
    cats that look like Hitler

    Hitler used to say (none / 0) (#45)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 02:45:40 PM EST
    he didn't drink because it made him mean.

    Somewhat bizarre bit of trivia (which may or may not be completely accurate): the notorious Hitler 'stache was partly the result of the efforts of National Socialist image consultants wanting people to associate Hitler with the internationally beloved "little tramp" Charlie Chaplin.

    Parent

    economic bubble (none / 0) (#31)
    by CST on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 01:26:15 PM EST
    we all live in our own personal bubbles, and I have felt for a little while now that the economy is turning - all the while national news is pretty horrific.

    It turns out, I was right.  The economy has been turning.  In Massachusetts.  Link 2.

    I know a lot of private companies that are hiring and have hired.  Well over half the people I know who lost their jobs are now employed.  And everyone's talking expansion.  My industry has been heavily subsidized by the stimulus which is coming to an end.  But no one seems particularly worried and we are still expanding.

    The article worries that things will slow if the national economy doesn't turn with us, and I imagine there may be some truth to that.  But for now, it feels pretty real and solid.

    In other words, if you're looking for a job and don't mind a high cost of living, you might want to start looking east.

    also (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by CST on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 01:32:10 PM EST
    this post is for all the right-wingers who bring up CA as proof of liberal economic failure.

    Parent
    AMEN!!! (none / 0) (#76)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 11:13:59 PM EST


    Parent
    and (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 01:33:03 PM EST
    The auto industry lives. Can we admit that government intervention worked?
    By E.J. Dionne Jr.

    Who could have imagined that the bailout of the auto industry, one of the single most unpopular moves by the Obama administration, would become one of its best talking points?

    But don't for an instant imagine that the comeback of the nation's rescued car companies, particularly General Motors, will change the way we debate government's role in the economy. When it comes to almost anything the government does, ideology trumps facts, slogans trump reality, and loaded words ("socialism") trump data.

    Let there be no mistake: Rescuing GM and Chrysler took political courage, and I want to put in a good word not only for President Obama but also for George W. Bush.



    Parent
    my industry (none / 0) (#32)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 01:29:38 PM EST
    that had been frozen for a while is now back to expanding big time.  all hiring and wage freezes are off.


    Parent
    tech industry (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by CST on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 01:36:11 PM EST
    that's why we're turning.  Our economy is based around technology and health care - two solid, growing segments.  We were hit especially hard when the internet bubble burst.  But this time around I think techonology is our saving grace.

    That, and while there was certainly a "price" crisis on homes, there was no huge expansion in supply since there really is no space to build here.  That means that while there was a price bubble there was no real building bubble, limiting the effect that the burst had on that industry here.

    Parent

    Related east coast economic news.... (none / 0) (#43)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 02:30:40 PM EST
    who knew there was so much opportunity in black market grilled cheese sandwiches?

    Stories like this always make me smile...the American entrepreneurial spirit lives!  

    Parent

    they sound pretty good (none / 0) (#46)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 02:48:01 PM EST
    wonder if you would deliver one to central IL.


    Parent
    For you Capt... (none / 0) (#52)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 02:57:57 PM EST
    I'll do it for a round trip ticket:)

    I did once deliver NYC dirty water dogs to FLA, and my lunatic buddy actually ate the 24 hour old unrefrigerated things...that's dirty water dog devotion right there.

    Parent

    eeuuu (none / 0) (#54)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 03:04:25 PM EST
    wouldnt eat one of those fresh.

    I think I could do the cheeze.  perhaps a dinner project tonight.

    I like the idea of sticking it in a 500 degree oven for a while.  I hope the guy has air conditioning.

    Parent

    If he didn't before... (none / 0) (#56)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 03:15:57 PM EST
    he can afford a little AC now, $5-7 a pop for a sandwich that costs around 2 bucks to make, not too shabby a margin...unless the Health Dept. catches up to him, heaven forbid.

    Parent
    Housing bubble, collapse and recession (none / 0) (#75)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 11:13:16 PM EST
    didn't hit the NE anywhere near as hard as other parts of the country.  I've heard that back in the Boston suburb I used to live in, housing sales stalled for a little while, but prices have held steady and even started to go up again.

    A really crummy, cheap house in my old neighborhood, about the size of my house here in VT but with about 1/20th the acreage, just sold for four times what I paid here.

    But you're so right that there's no separate NE economy.  It's only going to get so far without a broader national recovery, which doesn't look like it's going to happen any time soon.

    Parent

    Getting older (none / 0) (#40)
    by CST on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 02:11:15 PM EST
    stinks.  I remember when I used to injure myself back in the day, and a short time later I would be as good as new.

    Now I injure myself, and even though it's relatively minor, I know that while it will certainly get better, it will never be quite the same again.

    Soccer is a high contact sport.  I love it, and I can't see myself quitting anytime soon.  But it does cause damage.  I'm gonna miss that perfectly good ankle.  Stupid sprain.  Although it might help if I stopped walking on you...

    I hear ya sister... (none / 0) (#41)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 02:20:28 PM EST
    it does take longer to bounce back from those minor sprains and strains...but it beats the pain of watching the game from the sidelines...I won't stop till my knee totally blows up or they drag me off the field for somebody younger, stronger, faster...it's just too much fun!

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    yea (none / 0) (#44)
    by CST on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 02:30:43 PM EST
    knees are the worst.  I still got both of mine, but I have a sinking feeling it is only a matter of time till something happens.

    It sucks because as it was happening, I felt it and just knew immediately "that's gonna be different from now on".  It will be fine, I will still be able to play, but... it's just going to be weaker now.

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    As I heard one of the commenters wryly say (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 02:54:56 PM EST
    during one of the WC games, after a particularly dumb decision by one of the players, "It's too bad you often don't learn the game until after your body gives out."

    Maybe now's the time to become "that" player - the one who never seems to be breathing hard but is always in the right position and makes the smart play.

    Of course, maybe you already are that person...

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    haha well (none / 0) (#55)
    by CST on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 03:07:45 PM EST
    it doesn't take as much to get me breathing hard these days.  And this one happened while I was running down the field, all alone, with nary a ball or player near me - just some funky grass.  

    In a way, it reminded me of me skiing.  I do just fine on the trails, and yet for some reason I have a weird habit of wiping out while standing in the liftline (note - that's not getting on the lift, but quite literally, waiting in line).

    We all want to be "that" player.  But the only way I've figured out how to not run in soccer is to play goalie.  And that has a whole different set of injury issues.

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    The purist in me.... (none / 0) (#57)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 03:21:40 PM EST
    hates to say it, but the artificial turf fields are a god-send.  A little tougher on the joints & rug burns from hell, but level without an ankle-trap to be found, unlike the poorly maintained natural grass (and dirt and glass) fields around....some are like playing on the moon, very unsafe.

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    Ever get a chance to watch the old-timers play? (none / 0) (#58)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 03:35:18 PM EST
    I play occasionally with a 50 y/o+ Argentine buddy.

    He's one of those guys who never seem to break a sweat but he's always the one in the perfect position making the perfect pass...

    Anyway, there are some interesting-looking ankle braces in the sporting goods stores, although I can't vouch for them as I've always taped my ankles.

    Good luck!

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    Hopefully it is... (none / 0) (#47)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 02:48:41 PM EST
    not as bad as you think, ankles are kinda funny like that.  A speedy recovery to you regardless...or at least enough recovery to get back out there havin' fun!

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    Reslience (none / 0) (#77)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 11:16:49 PM EST
    The body's resilience decreases significantly with age.  I first began to notice that in my late 30s, actually.

    The retired farmer who does some work for me from time to time, 67, says with wonder that as far as he can tell, he's just as strong as he ever was, but it takes his body much, much longer to recover from physical exertion.  C'est la vie, I guess.

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    Shady crony-fied politics in NJ... (none / 0) (#42)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 02:24:18 PM EST
    might kill Meadowlands Racetrack...that would be a real shame.

    With the trotters maybe going bye-bye, the Devils playing in Newark, the Nets headed to Brooklyn, and the Red Bulls with their new soccer-only stadium...all that will be left at the Meadowlands complex will be the Jets and Giants.

    A girl, parking with her boyfriend (none / 0) (#86)
    by jondee on Tue Aug 03, 2010 at 12:27:12 PM EST
    said "kiss me where it smells", so he drove to New Jersey.

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    I'm very surprised, TL, (none / 0) (#48)
    by Peter G on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 02:48:54 PM EST
    that you have a jail that allows you to bring in a personal computer or phone of any kind.  Ours don't.

    Newsweek sold? (none / 0) (#49)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 02:50:57 PM EST
    NEW YORK (AdAge.com) -- It's official: Sidney Harman, the businessman who made his fortune selling stereo equipment, has secured a deal to buy Newsweek from the Washington Post Co. and will announce the deal later Monday afternoon.

    and if so, whats Kardon going to do?

    BuyTime? (none / 0) (#59)
    by ruffian on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 03:38:55 PM EST


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    One Dollar (none / 0) (#60)
    by squeaky on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 03:42:06 PM EST
    He will keep the staff and the liabilities, but not the editor,  Jon Meacham, who announced he is leaving once Harmon finds a replacement.  

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    bored? (none / 0) (#50)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 02:52:40 PM EST
    interview with Basil Marceaux

    the poor battered meme (none / 0) (#53)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 03:03:11 PM EST
    If you simply look at the national trends Democrats are in pretty bad shape right now. Barack Obama's approval numbers are hitting record lows in a lot of polling and the balance of the generic ballot surveys show Republicans in the lead.

    If you look at the trends in the actual races though things are getting sunnier for the Democrats. In June and July PPP polled eight Senate match ups that we had a previous poll to compare to- in all eight the Democratic candidate improved his/her position, by an average of 4.25 points.
    Ah well, all politics is local -- and (none / 0) (#61)
    by Cream City on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 04:01:21 PM EST
    the major local media in Wisconsin are looking at the numbers and calling them troublesome for Dems re the governorship (after the race was screwed up by the interference of the White House), several seats in the House, and a seat in the Senate -- Feingold's.

    Back to being the closest purple state again?  Or even going red again, in the birthplace of the Republican Party?

    I figured that 2008 was a fluke.  Now, we will see.

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    Yep (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by jbindc on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 04:49:31 PM EST
    Michigan will likely have a Republican governor next year too.

    And since 83% of state legislatures being up for grabs this year, and most polls show many of those trending Republican, things could get worse for the future, since it is the state leg and the governor who are responsible for redistricting (can you say Tom DeLay)?

    Could have some serious long term effects comin' down the pike....

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    whats more weird? (none / 0) (#63)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 05:49:00 PM EST
    that monkeys hate flying squirrels or that there is a job classification "monkey annoyance expert"?

    what they didnt tell you is that mooses also hate flying squirrels but no one wants to annoy a moose.

    Mooses Hate Flying Squirrels? (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by squeaky on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 05:56:27 PM EST
    Well Bullwinkle didn't....

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    personally (none / 0) (#65)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 06:00:17 PM EST
    I find it disturbing that people are paid to sit around and find ways to enrage monkeys.

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    Who will do such a job and how much (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by oculus on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 06:50:26 PM EST
    does it pay?  

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    Yeah (none / 0) (#66)
    by squeaky on Mon Aug 02, 2010 at 06:12:40 PM EST
    Breitbart and his wingnut friends have funded the project, no doubt.

    And no one seems to care about the distress that the squirrels feel with all those male monkeys screaming bloody murder.

    Go figure..    

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    Monday Open Thread | 83 comments (83 topical)

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