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Museum of Tolerance Intolerant Of Lower Manhattan Mosque

Via Markos and Glenn Greenwald, The Not So Tolerant Museum of Tolerance:

The new Museum of Tolerance New York opened in the heart of Manhattan this week, citing an ambitious mission to help enlighten city residents and tourists on issues of discrimination, prejudice and social inequality. But the museum's financial backer, the Wiesenthal Center of Los Angeles, says it cannot tolerate the planned location near Ground Zero for a mosque and Islamic community center.

I'm sorry, but that's kind of funny. It's wrong of course, but also funny. Not so funny:

In Jerusalem, Israel—where the Wiesenthal Center plans to open its next Museum of Tolerance—construction of the proposed tolerance museum has “resulted in digging up the remains of people who had been buried in a Muslim cemetery for generations,” M[arnia] Lazreg[, a professor at City University of New York Hunter College] said. “I am not sure that I would have chosen a site close to Ground Zero for building a mosque and cultural center, although there is no law against doing so,” she said. “But we have to be fair …. The mosque-center promoters have not engaged in acts of physical desecration of the victims of 9/11 attacks.”

That's DIFFERENT the "tolerant" folks would say no doubt. The differences of course, are all too obvious. Nice kickoff for the "Tolerance" Museum.

Speaking for me only

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    You wonder if people even listen to (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by ruffian on Sat Aug 07, 2010 at 09:05:46 AM EST
    themselves sometimes. If you are not planning to live up your name, maybe Tolerance Center is a bad choice.

    Museum of Tolerance, rather (none / 0) (#2)
    by ruffian on Sat Aug 07, 2010 at 09:07:09 AM EST
    I guess it will only have a few exhibits.

    Parent
    Museum of Tolerance and Spin.. (none / 0) (#3)
    by jondee on Sat Aug 07, 2010 at 09:21:10 AM EST
    as it relates to interests and events in certain contentious parts of the world, might be a more illustrative descriptive..

    Professor Norman Finkelstein has always had an interesting alternate take on the Weisenthal folks. Worth lending an ear to and mulling over.

    Parent

    Is there any... (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by kdog on Sat Aug 07, 2010 at 11:51:16 AM EST
    league/association/consortium not totally full of sh*t?

    Now I know why I don't join groups...like George Thorogood said "I know, everybody funny, now you funny too."

    That sounds like a Monty Python skit: (none / 0) (#7)
    by steviez314 on Sat Aug 07, 2010 at 12:00:58 PM EST
    "I'm a member of the League of Totally Full of Sh*t".

    Parent
    there are some that (none / 0) (#11)
    by jondee on Sat Aug 07, 2010 at 01:19:10 PM EST
    are only partially full of sh*t..

    My hypothesis is that there's a correlation between how much people rely on it for a livelihood and how fos it winds up being.

    Parent

    Anne Rice explains why she decided she (none / 0) (#39)
    by oculus on Sat Aug 07, 2010 at 03:07:38 PM EST
    couldn't again be a practicing Catholic after all.  Woman's right to choose, same sex marriage, etc.  Same issues as when she re-assumed her Catholicism.  Interesting.

    Parent
    You're kidding (none / 0) (#53)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Aug 07, 2010 at 10:25:50 PM EST
    I must find out more about this.  I loved her book Memnoch the Devil, most of her others too but not quite as much.  My grandmother stole it off my book shelf and probably threw it away cuz she thought it was something Satanic from the title and the picture on the cover :)

    Parent
    Lots of links on Huff Post. And, I think, (none / 0) (#54)
    by oculus on Sun Aug 08, 2010 at 12:39:02 AM EST
    NYT or LAT--can't remember which.

    Parent
    Well said sir... (none / 0) (#57)
    by kdog on Sun Aug 08, 2010 at 07:30:04 AM EST
    and I like the hypothesis...triple helpings at the sh*t buffet when a paycheck is on the line...lord knows I spin some yarns for mine, I must gain 20 lbs. of fos weight when I'm on the clock:)

    Parent
    Unfortunately, in the skyscraper... (none / 0) (#43)
    by EL seattle on Sat Aug 07, 2010 at 03:32:58 PM EST
    ...that will hold the new mosque, I sort of doubt if there will be a bar where you could order a bourbon, a scotch, or even one beer.  But maybe there will be a jukebox there somewhere.  I think that would be a positive sign.

    Parent
    Too true... (none / 0) (#56)
    by kdog on Sun Aug 08, 2010 at 07:22:36 AM EST
    the intolerant bastards...but that's why allah invented the hip pocket flask!

    Parent
    Tolerance, Faith, and Acceptance (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by SocialUpheaval on Sat Aug 07, 2010 at 07:31:54 PM EST
    As a practicing Jew, I find the intolerance of the Wiesenthal Center sad and a symptom of the myopia that afflicts many Westerners. Until we learn to accept people and faiths beyond ourselves, we will never know true peace. We've got to get beyond our fear of Muslims and stop conflating terrorism with religion.

    Yes (none / 0) (#4)
    by squeaky on Sat Aug 07, 2010 at 11:38:57 AM EST
    I saw that... When it comes to Israeli (RW) politics and muslims, people who are usually liberal, progressive and would fight with their last dying breath for equal rights among all people, lose their mind, imo.

    Abe Foxman of the ADL is another example, although he has backed off due to major WTFs from those who have managed to retain their sanity about the NYC Community center.

    Will Cordoba House include a mosque? (none / 0) (#8)
    by oculus on Sat Aug 07, 2010 at 12:05:13 PM EST
    Should Iman Rauf be required to disclose who is funding Cordoba Housa?

    Parent
    There's an interview on Beliefnet... (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by EL seattle on Sun Aug 08, 2010 at 10:54:23 AM EST
    ... with the land developer.  Here's some of what Sharif el-Gamal (CEO of SoHo Properties and lead developer of the Park 51 project) says about the mosque.  From the sound of things, Cordoba House will direct the interfaith programming within Park51, but not the mosque.

    The mosque will be run by a separate non-profit whose Board of Directors will reflect a broad range of experience. While the mosque will be located in the planned final structure of Park51, it will be a distinct non-profit. Neither Park51 nor the mosque, which hasn't been named yet, will tolerate any kind of illegal or un-American activity and rhetoric.

    It's an interesting interview, although Sharif el-Gamal seems to hedge his answers sometimes. (Just as it's true that "pols are pols", it shouldn't be surprising that Property Developers are Property Developers.)  

    From what I saw in the interview, it seems like there will be a 911 memorial reflection area and a mosque at the new structure.  The building will be over 12 stories tall, so there's probably room there for a bowling alley if they want one.
     

    Parent

    Who cares? (none / 0) (#9)
    by jondee on Sat Aug 07, 2010 at 12:49:22 PM EST
    the better question is, how long will it be tolerated if it becomes any kind of center for militancy of the radical fundamentalist, anti-semitic and anti-U.S variety..

    They're not exactly going to be operating under the radar in that locale.

    Parent

    I am interested in the "enemy combatant" (none / 0) (#12)
    by oculus on Sat Aug 07, 2010 at 01:20:04 PM EST
    aspect, given the super broad (IMO)definition of the term to include fund raiser in Indonesia.

    Parent
    Interested? (none / 0) (#26)
    by squeaky on Sat Aug 07, 2010 at 01:56:34 PM EST
    Why's that?

    Parent
    Google is Your Friend (none / 0) (#13)
    by squeaky on Sat Aug 07, 2010 at 01:21:18 PM EST
    It certainly is. Website for Cordoba House (none / 0) (#16)
    by oculus on Sat Aug 07, 2010 at 01:32:18 PM EST
    does not say one way or the other whether a mosque is included.  

    Parent
    OK Google Is Not Your Friend (none / 0) (#22)
    by squeaky on Sat Aug 07, 2010 at 01:47:52 PM EST
    But that little to do with google and lots to do with your interest and position. Hard to imagine that someone as smart and resourceful as you could not find out about the downtown community center..  

    link

    Parent

    Here's what I read: (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by oculus on Sat Aug 07, 2010 at 02:04:25 PM EST
    Cordabainitiative.org

    [Sometimes referred to as an "original source."]

    Parent

    Bedwetting For US in NYC? (none / 0) (#15)
    by squeaky on Sat Aug 07, 2010 at 01:28:37 PM EST
    Well MYOB....
    Bloomberg said the funding of the Islamic and community center near Ground Zero is none of the government's business.

    "People say, `Well do they have the money? Can they raise the money? Where does it come from?'" Bloomberg said.
    "I don't know. And government shouldn't -- do you really want every time they pass the basket in your church and you throw a buck in, they run over and say, `Okay, now where to do you come from, who are your parents, where did you get this money?' No."

    "People ought to be ashamed of themselves," Bloomberg added.

    Bloomberg also criticized the religious people who are speaking out against the project.
    "The more you believe, the more religious you are, the more you should want to keep government out of religion," Bloomberg said, "because someday it's not going to be your religion."

    link

    Parent

    No need to sling insults. (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by oculus on Sat Aug 07, 2010 at 01:34:38 PM EST
    Well Then (none / 0) (#19)
    by squeaky on Sat Aug 07, 2010 at 01:38:23 PM EST
    Stop with the implied bigotry, and I will stop with the bedwetter label.

    Parent
    Pretty sad state of affairs if you infer (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by oculus on Sat Aug 07, 2010 at 01:40:53 PM EST
    bogotry because I asked a couple of questions.  

    Parent
    Pretty sad, indeed (5.00 / 2) (#42)
    by Yman on Sat Aug 07, 2010 at 03:25:21 PM EST
    You could post a random page of text from a computer manual.

    He'd figure out a way to call you a bigot.

    Parent

    Yeah (none / 0) (#23)
    by squeaky on Sat Aug 07, 2010 at 01:49:23 PM EST
    When you start asking the same questions about funding for your local church, synagogue, or baseball field, I will assume that you are just curious, and not bigoted.

    Parent
    Is the U.S. government examining (none / 0) (#33)
    by oculus on Sat Aug 07, 2010 at 02:34:47 PM EST
    the funding of Christian churches, synagogues, temples, sports stadiums to determine whether funders include any "enemy combataants"?  Maybe the feds don't care about the funding of the Cordoba Initiative, but I bet they are looking into it.  Should they be?  Depends on your point of view.  

    Parent
    I am not sure (none / 0) (#51)
    by MKS on Sat Aug 07, 2010 at 09:47:56 PM EST
    if you have taken a position on this.

    Instapundit Glenn Reynolds was notorious for that--just posting a "heh" when linking to some really wingnut suff--so he could always disavow it later.

    Parent

    a general mo of the Right: (none / 0) (#60)
    by jondee on Sun Aug 08, 2010 at 11:04:48 AM EST
    first have Limbaugh, Beck or whoever plant some incendiary seed, let it take root for a couple of weeks and then have "moderate voices" disavow it or issue a retraction.

    Not that I care what they do, Im just passing on what others are saying..

    Parent

    That's well said by... (none / 0) (#58)
    by kdog on Sun Aug 08, 2010 at 07:41:30 AM EST
    the intolerant mayor...though it would be nice if he passed that message on to his police force, and practiced what he preaches.  

    Parent
    They call it a prayer space (none / 0) (#24)
    by Untold Story on Sat Aug 07, 2010 at 01:50:42 PM EST
    and are putting emphasis on the community center aspect.  Others do refer to it as a mosque.

    But if there is a Jewish Center, then why not?

    Perhaps downtown Manhattan should become a religious center as a result of 9/11 to truly encase tolerance of all religions in the future.

    Parent

    Well Surprise Surprise (none / 0) (#25)
    by squeaky on Sat Aug 07, 2010 at 01:55:33 PM EST
    Others call it a Mosque..

    A mosque is a place of worship for followers of Islam. Muslims often refer to the mosque by its Arabic name[citation needed], masjid (Arabic: مسجد‎ -- Arabic pronunciation: [ˈmæsdʒɪd] (pl. masājid, Arabic: مساجد‎ -- [mæˈsæːdʒɪd]))which literally means place of prostration. The word "mosque" in English refers to all types of buildings dedicated for Islamic worship although there is a distinction in Arabic between the smaller, masjids dedicated for daily five prayers and the larger masajid where the daily five prayers and the Friday congregation sermons are held (مسجد جامع, masjid jāmi`), which is attended by more people and play more roles such as teaching Qur'an.

    Big tipoff, Mosques have huge domes and a minaret:

    As well as providing a visual cue to a Muslim community, the main function of the minaret is to provide a vantage point from which the call to prayer is made. The call to prayer is issued five times each day: dawn, noon, mid-afternoon, sunset, and night. In most modern mosques, the adhan is called from the musallah, or prayer hall, via microphone to a speaker system on the minaret.


    Parent
    Not necessary to have "big dome" (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by oculus on Sat Aug 07, 2010 at 02:14:27 PM EST
    and/or minaret:  islam.com
    There is no special design or structure for a Mosque. Any building erected or used for congregational prayers is a Mosque.


    Parent
    Mosque (none / 0) (#55)
    by squeaky on Sun Aug 08, 2010 at 01:47:21 AM EST
    Minaret or not, the sure way to determine what is a mosque and what is not:

    The call to prayer is issued five times each day: dawn, noon, mid-afternoon, sunset, and night. In most modern mosques, the adhan is called from the musallah, or prayer hall, via microphone to a speaker system on the minaret.

    The call to prayer is heard on the streets and not through Muslims teeth, as is sometimes assumed by the uninformed.

    Parent

    Okay, what is your point? (none / 0) (#29)
    by Untold Story on Sat Aug 07, 2010 at 02:14:33 PM EST
    You don't like minarets but Christian and Jewish steeples are just fine?

    What difference would it make in lower Manhattan if it had a minaret among the steeples of worship?

    Parent

    I am curious as to whether Cordoba House (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by oculus on Sat Aug 07, 2010 at 02:24:58 PM EST
    will include a mosque.  I don't care if it does or not and I don't care whether it has a minaret or not.  I do find it interesting some do not want to answer the question, including the CordobaInitiative website.  

    Parent
    Well, a prayer space ? (none / 0) (#31)
    by Untold Story on Sat Aug 07, 2010 at 02:29:37 PM EST
    what else could that mean?

    Perhaps they think it would create dissention(which, obviously it does).

    Parent

    Maybe it will be an ecumenical prayer (none / 0) (#32)
    by oculus on Sat Aug 07, 2010 at 02:31:48 PM EST
    space.

    Parent
    Just read the link you gave . . . (none / 0) (#34)
    by Untold Story on Sat Aug 07, 2010 at 02:36:51 PM EST
    "There is no special design or structure for a Mosque.  Any building erected or used for congregational prayers is a Mosque."

    Guess that pretty much answers the question.

    It does also say, interestingly, that no one should be denied entrance to worship (sans shoes).  Wonder if that includes women?

    Parent

    The mosques I have visited welcomed (none / 0) (#35)
    by oculus on Sat Aug 07, 2010 at 02:40:06 PM EST
    women visitors (sans shoes and dressed appropriately).  Female worshippers are separated from male worshippers.  Females worshippers are generally in the balcony and male worshippers on the main floor. Truro in Newport RI had the same restrictions.

    Parent
    Hinduism and Sikh (none / 0) (#36)
    by Untold Story on Sat Aug 07, 2010 at 02:45:54 PM EST
    religions have no shoes as well - only women must cover their heads and are usually separated by sides, left side men, right side women.

    Christian churches long ago used to have women cover their heads as well.  Jewish synagogues have men cover their heads.

    Religion is fascinating and I wonder what this head cover is supposed to symbolize - right, google is my friend.

    Parent

    the "just curious" (none / 0) (#37)
    by jondee on Sat Aug 07, 2010 at 03:03:51 PM EST
    (but dont really care) folk and the others who've been falling all over themselves in attempts to stir up a hornets nest in the last couple of months, are almost making me wish they'd carry a piece of the sacred black stone to "the shadow of the WTC"..

    Parent
    Just curious, (none / 0) (#38)
    by oculus on Sat Aug 07, 2010 at 03:06:02 PM EST
    What is the "sacred black stone."

    Parent
    it's a facsimile (none / 0) (#41)
    by jondee on Sat Aug 07, 2010 at 03:23:07 PM EST
    of a meteorite that is said to have crashed through the roof of Muhammed's tent once while he was squatting over a hole in deep meditation.

    "The dung of Allah" it is sometimes called..

    Parent

    The black stone (none / 0) (#40)
    by Untold Story on Sat Aug 07, 2010 at 03:18:19 PM EST
    just googled it - a meterorite that is believed to have fallen at the feet of Adam and Eve and is entombed in Mecca, holding special powers for the believers.  Non-Muslim are not allowed to touch.  It is now in pieces held together.  So, perhaps a piece could be sent to NYC - that in itself would bring lots of visitors.

    Parent
    Why? (none / 0) (#52)
    by MKS on Sat Aug 07, 2010 at 09:52:22 PM EST
    Let them have a mosque or a meeting room or whatever.  If they do something illegal, then go after them.

    If we start to question what church leaders say, before we let them build, then we will have a totally different standard than we do today.

    Parent

    Interesting? (none / 0) (#61)
    by squeaky on Sun Aug 08, 2010 at 12:42:24 PM EST
    I don't care if it does or not and I don't care whether it has a minaret or not.  I do find it interesting some do not want to answer the question, including the CordobaInitiative website.
     

    But you don't find it "interesting" that all the wacko wingnuts want to make Muslims get tattoos on their foreheads?

    Maybe there is a connection between the questions you appear to be interested in and the ones you just take for granted as normal.

    Parent

    Museum of Tolerance (none / 0) (#5)
    by Untold Story on Sat Aug 07, 2010 at 11:40:26 AM EST
    You mention the Holocaust as an exhibit - are there also exhibits for slavery?  Are there exhibits related to the particular country in which these museums are built?

    And what about the plight of the Palestinian people - is their holocaust also exhibited to the world?

    I'd guess... a little of both? (none / 0) (#44)
    by EL seattle on Sat Aug 07, 2010 at 03:55:32 PM EST
    For instance, this month at the New Your City MOT, they'll have an exhibit to mark the 15th anniversary of the massacre of over 8,000 Bosnian Muslim men and teen‐age boys in Srebrenica.

    They also have an exhibit up called "Courage: The Vision to End Segregation. The Guts to Fight for it."

    But that's at the NYC MOT.  Results may vary at their other locations.

    Parent

    Thanks for the link (none / 0) (#47)
    by Untold Story on Sat Aug 07, 2010 at 04:25:36 PM EST
    How interesting!

    Parent
    Sigh* (none / 0) (#10)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Aug 07, 2010 at 01:17:45 PM EST


    The irony is as thick as that (none / 0) (#14)
    by Yes2Truth on Sat Aug 07, 2010 at 01:21:22 PM EST

    The lack of tolerance for those who have actually
    studied what really happened and as the result, know
    that moo slims couldn't have possibly pulled off
    what they are blamed for.  The evidence shows it was an inside job and the official account is no more true than any fairy tale in the children's section of the library.

    Let the shooting of the messenger commence.

    Oh my. (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by oculus on Sat Aug 07, 2010 at 01:33:33 PM EST
    Hoits, does it? (none / 0) (#45)
    by Yes2Truth on Sat Aug 07, 2010 at 04:13:08 PM EST

    That's okay.  Happened to me too.  Funny thing
    about the healing power of becoming informed and
    seeing through MSM and gummit disinfo.

    Parent
    Did Neil Armstrong walk on the moon? (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by oculus on Sat Aug 07, 2010 at 04:20:05 PM EST
    Good question (none / 0) (#48)
    by Yes2Truth on Sat Aug 07, 2010 at 04:59:47 PM EST

    I dunno, but I doubt it.  How could he had survived
     the instant temp. change from 250F to MINUS 250F
    when darkness came?

    Spacecraft would have needed a four feet thick
    lead shield in order foe astronots to survive
    passage thru the Van Allen radiation belts.

    Computer power of a an old digital watch hardly
    sounds sufficient for a 450,000 mile trip, including
    landing, rejoining the Mother ship etc.

    Have you read much about the subject?  My guess would be that you haven't.

    Parent

    Museums are where you put dead and (none / 0) (#49)
    by scribe on Sat Aug 07, 2010 at 05:09:21 PM EST
    obsolete things you can't get away with just tossing out in the trash, at least while the generation that made them is still alive.  Old airplanes and vehicles, art from 50 years ago that your parents loved (or bought, thinking it would be a good investment) and you hate, machines four or five generations out of date, ideals whose value was proven by the deaths of millions, stuff like that.

    Kinda ironic, almost funny, how easy it is to like the whip when it's in your hands, rather than across your back.