The Meteor

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Blog Related
Posted on Tue Sep 14, 2010 at 03:56:58 PM EST
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I have not thought about Richard Cohen for a while, but Balloon Juice mentioned his latest stupidity ("Terry Jones, As Right As John Brown") and it made me think of The Portent:

Hidden in the cap
Is the anguish none can draw;
So your future veils its face,
Shenandoah!

But the streaming beard is shown
(Weird John Brown),
The meteor of the war.

You think they will be writing poems about Terry Jones? Anyway, Frederick Douglass said of John Brown:

His zeal in the cause of my race was far greater than mine – it was as the burning sun to my taper light – mine was bounded by time, his stretched away to the boundless shores of eternity. I could live for the slave, but he could die for him.

You think someone is going to write something like that about Terry Jones? Maybe Richard Cohen.

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The Meteor | 67 comments (67 topical)

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Cohen things Jones was trying to make (5.00 / 1) (#1)
by ruffian on Tue Sep 14, 2010 at 04:02:18 PM EST

a political point. I sure don't see it. Cohen neatly goes meta for the free speech issue, as if that was the point of the whole thing all along. Sneaky.

: This part wasn't bad (none / 0) (#42)
by gyrfalcon on Tue Sep 14, 2010 at 11:43:38 PM EST

"I wondered, back eons ago in Instant Media Time (last week), why Newt Gingrich didn't call him or Sarah Palin tweet him or Rick Lazio issue a news release in which they all said that while they share his compulsion to exploit a fear of Islam, they thought he had gone about his publicity-seeking in the wrong way. They might have succeeded, although Jones might have retorted that moderation in pursuit of publicity is no virtue and extremism in the same pursuit is no vice."

Great Comparison (5.00 / 1) (#3)
by squeaky on Tue Sep 14, 2010 at 04:22:36 PM EST

John Brown gave his life to fight racism, slavery and bigotry, compared to some half wit scam artist who is fighting to inflame bigotry and racism...

I wonder where Cohen stands regarding Anwar al-Awlaki and OBL?

Why not? (3.00 / 4) (#11)
by jondee on Tue Sep 14, 2010 at 05:03:40 PM EST

the chutzpah-born-of-historical-ignorance crowd has even been trying to glom onto King's legacy lately..

Even social liberals, who would be Swift Boating King into the next dimension if he were alive today, are afraid to talk about anything but what a great man King was and how we need more like him today..


Good Point (5.00 / 1) (#13)
by squeaky on Tue Sep 14, 2010 at 05:15:22 PM EST

If Beck can exploit King, Cohen can exploit Brown... I guess it is all the rage these days.

Although, Cohen like Milbank is left of center, so how could I ever compare him to Beck...


It's a bullsh*t comparison... (none / 0) (#36)
by kdog on Tue Sep 14, 2010 at 10:14:11 PM EST

no doubt...Jones is more GG Allin than John Brown.

But I agree with the theme of the piece...free speech is not negotiable to intimidation or threat of violence. Unfortunately, more often than not it means defending the rights of winners like Jones...whaddya gonna do. It's worth it.


Agreed, kdog (none / 0) (#39)
by gyrfalcon on Tue Sep 14, 2010 at 11:40:18 PM EST

How about a little (none / 0) (#47)
by jondee on Wed Sep 15, 2010 at 09:16:19 AM EST

media consolidation busting to go along with that goal of free speech for everyone?


: Utopia is elusive... (none / 0) (#55)
by kdog on Wed Sep 15, 2010 at 12:37:37 PM EST

I'll take one if we can't get both.
Besides, we could deconsolidate media ourselves with a little organizing...if we stopped buying GE and Fox Corp media, they'd sell those media divisions the second they became unprofitable.
The power is ours, that we choose not to excecise it is another problem.

what could be better (5.00 / 1) (#7)
by Capt Howdy on Tue Sep 14, 2010 at 04:50:20 PM EST

than Harry Reid and Lady Gaga exchanging tweets on DADT?

Liberation (5.00 / 1) (#20)
by squeaky on Tue Sep 14, 2010 at 05:52:12 PM EST

Amnesty International reports that the Iraqi government is holding some 30,000 prisoners without charges or due process. In some instances the prisoners have been abused or even tortured. About 10,000 of these prisoners were recently handed over to the Iraqis when the US combat mission in Iraq supposedly ended.

Juan Cole

I thought it was "turning the page." (none / 0) (#24)
by oculus on Tue Sep 14, 2010 at 06:03:02 PM EST

Huh? (5.00 / 1) (#26)
by squeaky on Tue Sep 14, 2010 at 06:10:13 PM EST

Well I am sure that your quote has to do with slamming Obama for ending the war. Are you suggesting that Obama should liberate the Iraqis like Bush did? Turning the page, a bad idea?

Oh, a bit of pre liberation history:

In 2001 the prison is thought to have held as many as 15,000 inmates.[citation needed]
The prison was reportedly abandoned just prior to the 2003 invasion of Iraq when Saddam announced general amnesty for virtually all the nation's prisoners. An expansion project began in early 2002 that would add six new blocks to the prison.[3] In October 2002, Saddam Hussein gave amnesty to most prisoners in Iraq. After the prisoners were released, the prison was left empty to be vandalized and looted. Almost all of the documents relating to prisoners were piled and burnt inside of prison offices and cells, leading to extensive structural damage.

: I am pleased with Obama's decision (none / 0) (#27)
by oculus on Tue Sep 14, 2010 at 06:13:59 PM EST

to w/d all but 52,000 U.S. military personnel from Iraq. I guess we liberated the Iraqis from Saddam Hussein's dictaroship. But not much else.

I hate the show 'The Big C' (5.00 / 1) (#34)
by ruffian on Tue Sep 14, 2010 at 08:22:27 PM EST

There, I said it. Never thought I would hate anything with Laura Linney, but this show just tries way too hard. The giggling cancer patient schtick is really annoying.

started reading that Cohen thing (none / 0) (#2)
by Capt Howdy on Tue Sep 14, 2010 at 04:10:00 PM EST

earlier linked from hot air I think. couldnt finish it. wanted to throw things.

been trying all day (none / 0) (#4)
by Capt Howdy on Tue Sep 14, 2010 at 04:35:47 PM EST

to get to the Galileo Was Wrong website.
they have exceeded their bandwidth. but it just explains so much of what we discuss here:

"'Galileo Was Wrong' is an inaugural conference to discuss the 'detailed and comprehensive treatment of the scientific evidence supporting Geocentrism, the academic belief that the Earth is immobile in the center of the universe.' The geocentrists argue that 'Scientific evidence available to us within the last 100 years that was not available during Galileo's confrontation shows that the [Catholic] Church's position on the immobility of the Earth is not only scientifically supportable, but it is the most stable model of the universe and the one which best answers all the evidence we see in the cosmos.'

I was going to say something about that too (none / 0) (#5)
by ruffian on Tue Sep 14, 2010 at 04:47:27 PM EST

the article I read this morning says about 18% of Americans believe the earth is really the center of the solar system, if not the universe.

No data as to whether these are the same people that a) approve of GWB or b) think Obama is a Muslim


one in five (none / 0) (#6)
by Capt Howdy on Tue Sep 14, 2010 at 04:49:11 PM EST

pause for a moment and consider that one in five americans think the earth is the center of the universe.

I need a drink.


only one in five? (none / 0) (#21)
by NYShooter on Tue Sep 14, 2010 at 05:54:39 PM EST

cheer up! Four in five can't name a single Supreme Court Justice.


for some reason (none / 0) (#51)
by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 15, 2010 at 11:45:01 AM EST

that bothers me less than one in five believing the earth is the center of the universe.


Really? (none / 0) (#52)
by squeaky on Wed Sep 15, 2010 at 11:52:08 AM EST

Whether or not the earth is the center of the universe literally, is irrelevant to 99% of the earth's inhabitants. Most people are too busy in their lives sorting out basic survival or pursuing the task they are focused on.

The earth is the center of the universe for its dwellers, just as humans believe that they are the center of all living things on the earth.


so (none / 0) (#53)
by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 15, 2010 at 12:18:49 PM EST

you think not being able to name a SC justice is worse than thinking the earth is literally the center of the universe.

interesting. I disagree.


Worse For Who? (none / 0) (#54)
by squeaky on Wed Sep 15, 2010 at 12:28:50 PM EST

That is the question. Both questions are pretty irrelevant to most working stiffs, imo.

Who is the leader of Russia, China?

Not so many care about that either, imo.

Most people are too busy to bother learning esoteric facts.


sorry (none / 0) (#56)
by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 15, 2010 at 12:43:36 PM EST

having trouble imaging the universe where the fact that the universe does not revolve around the earth is an "esoteric fact"


Most people like esoteric facts (none / 0) (#57)
by jondee on Wed Sep 15, 2010 at 01:05:14 PM EST

if they're presented in an imaginative and immediate way that conveys the sense that we're active participants and not just poor slobs who accidentally got on the wrong bus..

A lot of those people who don't know astronomy or civics can go on and on about the intricacies of everything from car engines to fly fishing to the history of fashion design..

People habitually tune out a lot of the world, "current events" and history because the way information is presented and framed makes them feel overwhelmed, powerless and depressed and most people will do almost anything to avoid feeling that way.


esoteric (none / 0) (#58)
by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 15, 2010 at 01:09:52 PM EST

designed for or understood by the specially initiated alone
requiring or exhibiting knowledge that is restricted to a small group
limited to a small circle
of special, rare, or unusual interest

so says webster.
that the earth is not the center of the universe is not esoteric.


I'm surprised it's only (none / 0) (#59)
by jondee on Wed Sep 15, 2010 at 01:17:37 PM EST

1 out of five, when you consider how many think Armageddon in the ME is part of God's plan and that Iraq attacked us on 9/11..


Well (none / 0) (#60)
by squeaky on Wed Sep 15, 2010 at 01:33:21 PM EST

Apart from astronomy being esoteric knowledge, most people understand things through their senses. The fact that the earth revolves around the sun, is abstract knowledge and must be believed.

I certainly could care less about whether the earth revolves around the sun or the sun revolves around the earth, because I have enough problems with general directions locally.

I would bet that the number of people who said I do not know or care about the question, is probably greater than 20%. Not to mention that those who recite the fact that the earth revolves around the sun are only repeating rote knowledge and have little idea as to why or how it all works.


wow (none / 0) (#61)
by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 15, 2010 at 01:42:15 PM EST

Im starting to feel like Stephen Hawking here.

I not only know that the earth revolve around the sun but I actually understand why.

and why the creation museum is doing a booming business.


OK Stephen... (none / 0) (#62)
by squeaky on Wed Sep 15, 2010 at 02:01:57 PM EST

You have been outed... lol

Kidding aside, you are obviously interested in astronomy. Is it a hobby?

Something simpler that is a rare fact is that when you divide a string in half and pluck it you get the octave. My guess is that less people know that, even though it is practical knowledge noticed by Pythagoras as he was walking by a blacksmith shop.


probably fewer people (none / 0) (#63)
by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 15, 2010 at 02:03:36 PM EST

know that.
but that was not taught in my 5th grade science class.


astronomy (none / 0) (#64)
by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 15, 2010 at 02:05:11 PM EST

not really a hobby although it is an interest. I guess I just paid attention sometimes in school.
however rarely.

seriously I cant imagine going through even our crappy public schools and not knowing this.


: btw (none / 0) (#66)
by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 15, 2010 at 02:07:31 PM EST

the site is up and running now.
Galileo was Wrong

: Yup (none / 0) (#67)
by squeaky on Wed Sep 15, 2010 at 02:18:10 PM EST

I cant imagine going through even our crappy public schools and not knowing this.
Bet it is because it is interesting to you. Most forget the stuff that is uninteresting, even if they memorized it once, in order to pass a test.
But then again, close to 20% of Americans do not get a high school degree, and probably quit because of astronomy.

Illustrated last night at Chivas USA (none / 0) (#65)
by oculus on Wed Sep 15, 2010 at 02:07:03 PM EST

vs. Chivas GL soccer game at Petco Park. The longer vuvuzelas sounded an octave lower than the shorter ones. All loud. But not as annoying as on TV during World Cup.


How can this be an "open thread" (none / 0) (#8)
by oculus on Tue Sep 14, 2010 at 04:51:04 PM EST

after this poignant post?

Maybe we are supposed to (none / 0) (#29)
by Maryb2004 on Tue Sep 14, 2010 at 06:36:18 PM EST

post poetry.

You first.


I'm already behind. Never read the (5.00 / 1) (#32)
by oculus on Tue Sep 14, 2010 at 07:07:29 PM EST

Melville poem before. "Thous too sail on, thou ship of state." That's about it from me. Oh, and "In Flanders' fields the poppies grow, between the crosses, row on row."


Well (5.00 / 1) (#35)
by squeaky on Tue Sep 14, 2010 at 08:54:55 PM EST

At least, you are good at alliteration....

There is so much great literature, that one cannot read it all in a lifetime.


Hindemith set this Whitman poem to (5.00 / 1) (#37)
by Harry Saxon on Tue Sep 14, 2010 at 10:46:31 PM EST

mark the death of FDR :

When lilacs last in the dooryard bloomed,
And the great star early drooped in the western sky in the night,
I mourned, and yet shall mourn with ever-returning spring.
Ever-returning spring, trinity sure to me you bring,
Lilac blooming perennial and drooping star in the west,
And thought of him I love.

My favorite Whitman quote:

The past and present wilt--I have fill'd them, emptied them,
And proceed to fill my next fold of the future.
Listener up there! Here, you! What have you to confide to me?
Look in my face, while I snuff the sidle of evening;
Talk honestly--no one else hears you, and I stay only a minute longer.
Do I contradict myself?
Very well, then, I contradict myself;
(I am large--I contain multitudes.)
I concentrate toward them that are nigh--I wait on the door-slab.
Who has done his day's work? Who will soonest be through with his supper?
Who wishes to walk with me?
Will you speak before I am gone? Will you prove already too late?

Roger Sessions, too (none / 0) (#40)
by gyrfalcon on Tue Sep 14, 2010 at 11:41:53 PM EST

huge, complex work. Not sure who he dedicated it to.


: Per Wiki, Robert Shaw commissioned the (none / 0) (#43)
by oculus on Wed Sep 15, 2010 at 01:24:02 AM EST

Hindemith setting. George Crumb also set this poem, as did Kurt Weill as part of "Street Scene." Thanks, Wiki. Very interesting.

I had lines (5.00 / 2) (#38)
by lilburro on Tue Sep 14, 2010 at 11:10:00 PM EST

from "The Wasteland" in my head today at work and thought, "now why would that be?" and the answer after I gave it a moment's thought was "because it is that good..."

But Philip Larkin's Going, Going is worth it just to get to the last line.


Chandler's take on Eliot (none / 0) (#45)
by Harry Saxon on Wed Sep 15, 2010 at 08:41:54 AM EST

" 'I grow old ... I grow old ... I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled.' What does that mean, Mr. Marlowe?"
"Not a bloody thing. It just sounds good."
He smiled. "That is from the 'Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock.' Here's another one. 'In the room the women come and go/Talking of Michael Angelo.' Does that suggest anything to you, sir?"
"Yeah- it suggests to me that the guy didn't know very much about women."
"My sentiments exactly, sir. Nonetheless I admire T. S. Eliot very much."
"Did you say 'nonetheless' ?"

The Long Goodbye


She was saying something about T.S Eliot (none / 0) (#46)
by jondee on Wed Sep 15, 2010 at 08:54:16 AM EST

but all I could think was that she had a pair of legs on her that would make a bishop kick out a stained glass window..


: And he took no guff from editors (5.00 / 1) (#48)
by Harry Saxon on Wed Sep 15, 2010 at 10:14:07 AM EST

"By the way, would you convey my compliments to the purist who reads your proofs and tell him

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